The "mud" insulation, which is a mixture of calcium silicate + cement. We never finished the backhead corner jacketing, and haven't really had time to make it since she's been in service.
These are the videos I love the most! I never knew that the compressor actually cycles itself to keep it from freezing up. Thank you for making these videos and show us stuff like this!
It's nuts to think how long ago all of this technology was developed, and the techniques they had to use in doing so... steam locomotives are friggin high-tech man!
You make my favorite steam railroading (and railroading in general) content, and its so great that you're even in my own town. Thanks for sharing so much with us!
Let it be noted that the reason the pump cycles more when the independent brake is used is because it works like the brakes on your car - it takes are directly from the main reservoir and puts it into the brake cylinders on the engine and tender. The automatic brake for the train works on the principle of displacement and equalization - it reduces the amount of air in the brake pipe into the brake cylinders, and air from the reservoirs on each car moves to equalize the pressure until it matches the brake pipe pressure. The main reservoirs are used to replenish the air back to the regulated pressure once the brake valve is set to release, and the pump works to replenish air in the main reservoir.
Really good technique so we can see all the pertinent controls and gauges at once. Hard to do with something that is so dynamic and the parts all over and that generally don't have clear shots. I like the compressor cam fixed to the nut.
Mark, Does the cross-compound compressor on 491 run less than the 2 singles on 346? It’s been a very long time but I seem to remember on 346 that the compressor ran more than I saw in this video.
@@SeanJAnimations ah. That would be the calcium silicate insulation mixed with cement that has cracked. We never ended up finishing the corner of the jacket so you can see it unfortunately.
@@Hyce777 Also I'd like to say thanks for being one of the few YT channels I know for being this interactive with their audience and giving out such cool information about trains. I'm learning things I never knew and it's quite cool! So thanks. :)
Another great video, Mark! Just out of curiosity, how do you guys fair using independent braking in combination with a train? Back east we do a lot of power braking and always try to keep the slack stretched, even for station stops. Only ever use the independent while running freight on our diesels if the cars haven't charged, you're trying to have a smooth start, getting a lot of slips, etc. I'm mainly a freight engineer, so educate me lol. Was always taught to not use independent on steam because you could loosen the tires. Were these engines equipped with a mountain brake setup whereas it would only apply to the tender and not the drivers? I was also wondering if you might consider doing a video explaining the drifting throttle these narrow gauge engines were equipped with. Enjoy learning about unique features such as these because they're so foreign to what I have ever run. I heard tell of another interesting (French?) design known as a water brake for coming down very steep grades. Would be an interesting topic to cover.
Great questions Mark - I would agree that stretch braking and power braking would be ideal. However, here we're stopping on a mix of 1.5-3.5% grade with only a few cars, you really need the independent to stop without sliding something. If you use the independent for a long time and heavily (like coming off of Cumbres pass, for example) - you absolutely can loosen the tires. 491 is equipped with a mountain cock for removing the brake pressure to the driver cylinders, yes. We also do have the drifting throttle, and the engines did used to have the Le Chatelier / water brake. All deserving their own videos, hopefully get to them soon enough.
@@Hyce777 Wow thanks for the quick response! Love the direction your channel is going in. Makes total sense you'd need a little extra braking effort to get a short passenger train stopped on that type of grade. Lord knows how easy it is to slide wheels on coaches... Look forward to more of your videos! If you ever get out this way come over to SMS Rail in NJ. Still switching freight 1950s style here with baldwin diesels.
@@MarkRBlackwell oh neat! I am familiar with your diesels. I edited the sound recordings that TCS did for their DCC decoders for them, lol. Neat sounding Baldwin power. :)
I don't know if you mentioned it, but how do you deal with water condensing inside of the compressor (the steam part of it)? I know there's drainage cocks on the main traction steam engine, but those wouldn't be practical on the (permanently cycling) air compressor, or would they?
@@czechgop7631 oh lol. Yeah, once you get it running it sort of just blows the moisture out the exhaust. It never gets enough water to cause problems because it cycles so often, and forces the rest out itself.
How much water do you need in the boiler? Half, three quarters... something like that? Do you have to fill / empty the boiler to varying percentages throughout a ride or do you have to keep it at a constant rate? Thank you!
It's hard to say precisely from the scale of "empty to full" how much it is, as we can't read the full range of the boiler (only what the really usable range is). We keep it to about 1/2 a glass on the level, which is "full" in the glass going uphill, and almost empty going downhill. This is probably actually about 3/4's full, if I had to guess. We have to keep it in a pretty tight window. Too much, the engine works water, which can break it; too little, the crownsheet can get exposed which can cause an explosion. So, we're constantly adding, or removing, depending on what the fire is doing and how the engine is using the water.
@@Hyce777 Thanks, man. One last question. If going uphill or downhill gives a false reading on the glass, do you have another method of finding the correct water level, or do you use a map to figure out that at this and this point we're going uphill / downhill?
@@campionpesate4647 you just know that you're measuring water at the back of the boiler. The reading is always accurate for the back at the back :) haha. You need to know the territory. If you're going uphill, you need more than you normally do, downhill, less. Etc.
@@Hyce777 Ah, many thanks. Hey if you ever take a vacation in Europe make sure to visit Budapest, it has the largest open air locomotive museum in europe, you can climb inside all of the steam locomotives and inspect them upclose, most museums in europe don't let you do that. Just make sure not to miss the sheds nearby, there are many old railcars and such inside as well.
@@campionpesate4647 thank you for the tip! I will make it out that way sooner or later again. I've got family on Croatia and Switzerland, so there's reason to go.
Hyce: another marvelous and extremely instructive video. I'm confused about something, however. I had understood that on a passenger train you always wanted to keep the cars stretched out. When, nearing the station stop, Paul released the automatic brake and applied the independent brake, wouldn't this cause the cars to bunch up together?
We're stopping downhill on a mixture of 1.5-3.5% grade. If you leave the cars stretched, when you release in station, the cars will roll while folks are getting off. So you have to stop bunched; Paul did it perfectly such that you don't notice that he "gathered" the cars slowly. On level or uphill track, you're totally right.
@@Hyce777 Thank you for the explanation. It’s another illustration of the level of artistry involved in running a train, especially back in the steam era. But wouldn’t you want to leave the automatic brake applied at a short station stop on a grade instead of releasing them?
@@Pamudder not when the independent can hold it, and it's best to keep the train fully charged. If the engine couldn't hold it, you'd have to leave it stretched.
I think I might need to watch this video a couple of hundred time. Thanks Buddy!. If possible could I have the same sort of view showing the steam regulator/brake interplay but include the reverser simultaneously. It’s a bit of an ask I know but I’d love it if you could do that some time. If you don’t I’ll live! Once again thanks from Australia.
What kinds of qualifications are needed to volunteer on the operations side of the museum? I live in Centennial, not far from Golden and have just recently found out about this place! I checked the site but not much info was on there.
I'm curious, does 91 have a single head governor or two head governor? I've been doing some research on governors, and I cannot remember which one was put on her.
I don't know if you've covered this before, but what is the mechanism that causes the compressor to cycle? Is it some kind of check valve that is hooked to a throttle on the compressor? I always wondered about that...
We haven't really talked about it too much, save for loco 360; there's a governor that's connected to the main reservoir pressure that allows more steam to head to the pump or not.
Hi Mark great video man. Hey do you think you guys could do a Tom Scott on 491s little trip with no crew in Alamosa? Thank you ahead of time and I can’t to see you guys do more of those videos.
@@Hyce777 i got you Mark makes since hope you can post that last one and I hope you guys can come up with more soon. Hey do you think you could do more videos on Smokeboxes challenger? Thanks man Jeff aka NW611J.
Unrelated to the video, but a local theme park had a derailment today on their track, overturning a couple passenger cars. Four injured but nothing severe. I was just curious if it is common for the wheel sets to come off of the older passenger cars when they went belly up. Cause not announced yet, video suggest a misaligned switch. Engine is an 0-4-0 from late 1930s. Not able to find make or model of cars yet
I heard about that, I heard minor injuries, which is good with how bad it looked. Ouch. For older cars, the bolsters are all gravity, so if you tip over, the car usually falls separate from the trucks. Modern roller bearing wheelsets also then fall separate from the trucks, but the older plain bearing stuff sticks together so long as the journal box doesn't break up.
Fine video - excellent length, as we get a chance to analyze the results over a longer period. Just one thing... You are not "filming", There is no use of a celluloid based strip with holes down the side and a photosensitive emulsion thereon. That is like saying you are "steaming" when running an SD-40 or an Acela. You are "RECORDING", no more, no less.
Majority of the work is done at the beginning, charging the train all the way up at the beginning. If it was a really long train, it would need more pumps to recharge, but it's not really long.
Immona return and grade you for accuracy. I got 40s in before I decide to come back. Right now you're -1 point for calling it a compressor, not an air pump; +30 for effort. I'll be back...
@@Hyce777 Noob. The AB catechism (George's own) calls it a pump. I have a 26R diagram that does likewise. Mebbe the 9 1/2" stroker got replaced with something from Harbor Freight at some point. In this case you would be [somewhat] excused. (That _is_ what my steam plant experience says, tho) 😜
@@77thTrombone Mr. Westinghouse might call it a pump, but as a device it's not a pump. Much like people calling engines in cars motors. Yes, accepted terminology but the nitpicky of us (me) know it's wrong.
@@Hyce777 yes. You seemed to be cut from similar stock (as me,) which is why I chose to snipe you with itchy powder. I _guess_ that for the first part of the industrial revolution folks called them pumps because they acted like a sort of pump. At some point, folks decided that pumps handle (hehe!) incompressible fluids, while compressors deal with compressibles. Nowadays it's just a technicality used to irritate young upstarts.
@@77thTrombone lol, pretty much. We're a special bunch, aren't we? You'll note I also used "air pump" in the thumbnail because it fits a lot easier than compressor... Lol
Dang. Thought that compound air pump would be cycling like a air pump. Ya know constant back n forth like 100 cycles per second. Anyhoo when he stopped. The trains brakes all went to 0 psi? Or how's that. You put pressure on line to hold the brakes off ? Right. @#$& More Beanze please🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥oh is there a steam guage on the. Clylinder s or de of the steamy, I know. You have one for boiler presser later. Baseman out
What is cracked on the firebox?
The "mud" insulation, which is a mixture of calcium silicate + cement. We never finished the backhead corner jacketing, and haven't really had time to make it since she's been in service.
@@Hyce777 And thats why you pinned it, Was literally about to ask.
It seems to still hold really
You're mom is cracked!
(sorry. The kids have infected me with their standard answers.)
These are the videos I love the most! I never knew that the compressor actually cycles itself to keep it from freezing up. Thank you for making these videos and show us stuff like this!
Hyce, it's so awesome that you're making these videos. It's like pulling back the veil to things not a lot of people get to see. We appreciate ya.
“Watch a man play with a handle in a steam engine”
Love the video Hyce
The real question, did Paul give enough of the BEANZ!
Next we need a camera by the brake cylinders on 491 so you can see the shoes/rigging apply and release
That's a very challenging area to mount something but I'll see what I can do hahaha
@@Hyce777 could try the tender brake rigging if you can't get a good view of the loco's
It's nuts to think how long ago all of this technology was developed, and the techniques they had to use in doing so... steam locomotives are friggin high-tech man!
You make my favorite steam railroading (and railroading in general) content, and its so great that you're even in my own town. Thanks for sharing so much with us!
Let it be noted that the reason the pump cycles more when the independent brake is used is because it works like the brakes on your car - it takes are directly from the main reservoir and puts it into the brake cylinders on the engine and tender. The automatic brake for the train works on the principle of displacement and equalization - it reduces the amount of air in the brake pipe into the brake cylinders, and air from the reservoirs on each car moves to equalize the pressure until it matches the brake pipe pressure. The main reservoirs are used to replenish the air back to the regulated pressure once the brake valve is set to release, and the pump works to replenish air in the main reservoir.
Really good technique so we can see all the pertinent controls and gauges at once. Hard to do with something that is so dynamic and the parts all over and that generally don't have clear shots. I like the compressor cam fixed to the nut.
Neat multiple views and the explanations.
Interesting to see the movement between the tender and the locomotive.
Mark,
Does the cross-compound compressor on 491 run less than the 2 singles on 346? It’s been a very long time but I seem to remember on 346 that the compressor ran more than I saw in this video.
Yup; the singles are much less efficient. You're absolutely right.
What's that thing with the cracks in it?
What do you mean?
@@Hyce777 I'm pretty sure he's talking about the rear of the boiler near the bottom of the frame at the start of the video.
@@SeanJAnimations ah. That would be the calcium silicate insulation mixed with cement that has cracked. We never ended up finishing the corner of the jacket so you can see it unfortunately.
@@Hyce777 Gotcha, That makes sense.
@@Hyce777 Also I'd like to say thanks for being one of the few YT channels I know for being this interactive with their audience and giving out such cool information about trains. I'm learning things I never knew and it's quite cool! So thanks. :)
Very nice video! Very educational! Thanks for your generosity in sharing your knowledge.
Another great video, Mark!
Just out of curiosity, how do you guys fair using independent braking in combination with a train? Back east we do a lot of power braking and always try to keep the slack stretched, even for station stops. Only ever use the independent while running freight on our diesels if the cars haven't charged, you're trying to have a smooth start, getting a lot of slips, etc. I'm mainly a freight engineer, so educate me lol.
Was always taught to not use independent on steam because you could loosen the tires. Were these engines equipped with a mountain brake setup whereas it would only apply to the tender and not the drivers?
I was also wondering if you might consider doing a video explaining the drifting throttle these narrow gauge engines were equipped with. Enjoy learning about unique features such as these because they're so foreign to what I have ever run. I heard tell of another interesting (French?) design known as a water brake for coming down very steep grades. Would be an interesting topic to cover.
Great questions Mark - I would agree that stretch braking and power braking would be ideal. However, here we're stopping on a mix of 1.5-3.5% grade with only a few cars, you really need the independent to stop without sliding something.
If you use the independent for a long time and heavily (like coming off of Cumbres pass, for example) - you absolutely can loosen the tires. 491 is equipped with a mountain cock for removing the brake pressure to the driver cylinders, yes.
We also do have the drifting throttle, and the engines did used to have the Le Chatelier / water brake. All deserving their own videos, hopefully get to them soon enough.
@@Hyce777 Wow thanks for the quick response! Love the direction your channel is going in.
Makes total sense you'd need a little extra braking effort to get a short passenger train stopped on that type of grade. Lord knows how easy it is to slide wheels on coaches...
Look forward to more of your videos! If you ever get out this way come over to SMS Rail in NJ. Still switching freight 1950s style here with baldwin diesels.
@@MarkRBlackwell oh neat! I am familiar with your diesels. I edited the sound recordings that TCS did for their DCC decoders for them, lol. Neat sounding Baldwin power. :)
@@Hyce777 Get outta here! Small world man. Ya can't beat baldwins. We'll hopefully have our US Army 0-6-0 out by spring as well. Stay tuned.
Wow I learned a lot from this video, thanks for sharing Mark!
I don't know if you mentioned it, but how do you deal with water condensing inside of the compressor (the steam part of it)? I know there's drainage cocks on the main traction steam engine, but those wouldn't be practical on the (permanently cycling) air compressor, or would they?
Lots of filters, radiator piping, and drains on the main reservoir. The air is still pretty "wet" at the end of the day.
@@Hyce777 No, I meant the steam part of the compressor 😄
@@czechgop7631 oh lol. Yeah, once you get it running it sort of just blows the moisture out the exhaust. It never gets enough water to cause problems because it cycles so often, and forces the rest out itself.
@@Hyce777 Oh that's interesting, always wondered that. Cheers from Czechia and have fun railroading! :D
How much water do you need in the boiler? Half, three quarters... something like that? Do you have to fill / empty the boiler to varying percentages throughout a ride or do you have to keep it at a constant rate? Thank you!
It's hard to say precisely from the scale of "empty to full" how much it is, as we can't read the full range of the boiler (only what the really usable range is). We keep it to about 1/2 a glass on the level, which is "full" in the glass going uphill, and almost empty going downhill. This is probably actually about 3/4's full, if I had to guess.
We have to keep it in a pretty tight window. Too much, the engine works water, which can break it; too little, the crownsheet can get exposed which can cause an explosion. So, we're constantly adding, or removing, depending on what the fire is doing and how the engine is using the water.
@@Hyce777 Thanks, man. One last question. If going uphill or downhill gives a false reading on the glass, do you have another method of finding the correct water level, or do you use a map to figure out that at this and this point we're going uphill / downhill?
@@campionpesate4647 you just know that you're measuring water at the back of the boiler. The reading is always accurate for the back at the back :) haha. You need to know the territory. If you're going uphill, you need more than you normally do, downhill, less. Etc.
@@Hyce777 Ah, many thanks. Hey if you ever take a vacation in Europe make sure to visit Budapest, it has the largest open air locomotive museum in europe, you can climb inside all of the steam locomotives and inspect them upclose, most museums in europe don't let you do that. Just make sure not to miss the sheds nearby, there are many old railcars and such inside as well.
@@campionpesate4647 thank you for the tip! I will make it out that way sooner or later again. I've got family on Croatia and Switzerland, so there's reason to go.
I would love a video on steam locomotive governors and how they actual work. It's one part of an engine that truly just seems like voodoo to me.
Air compressors can eat your steam if you're not careful! Starting them in the morning is kinda magical too.
Hyce: another marvelous and extremely instructive video. I'm confused about something, however. I had understood that on a passenger train you always wanted to keep the cars stretched out. When, nearing the station stop, Paul released the automatic brake and applied the independent brake, wouldn't this cause the cars to bunch up together?
We're stopping downhill on a mixture of 1.5-3.5% grade. If you leave the cars stretched, when you release in station, the cars will roll while folks are getting off. So you have to stop bunched; Paul did it perfectly such that you don't notice that he "gathered" the cars slowly. On level or uphill track, you're totally right.
@@Hyce777 Thank you for the explanation. It’s another illustration of the level of artistry involved in running a train, especially back in the steam era. But wouldn’t you want to leave the automatic brake applied at a short station stop on a grade instead of releasing them?
@@Pamudder not when the independent can hold it, and it's best to keep the train fully charged. If the engine couldn't hold it, you'd have to leave it stretched.
@@Hyce777 OK. I was sure there was a sound reason. 😀. Thank you again for your marvelous video series.
I think I might need to watch this video a couple of hundred time. Thanks Buddy!. If possible could I have the same sort of view showing the steam regulator/brake interplay but include the reverser simultaneously. It’s a bit of an ask I know but I’d love it if you could do that some time. If you don’t I’ll live! Once again thanks from Australia.
I'll see what I can rig up, that might take more than one camera haha
What kinds of qualifications are needed to volunteer on the operations side of the museum? I live in Centennial, not far from Golden and have just recently found out about this place! I checked the site but not much info was on there.
Not much! Need to be 18 to do the fun stuff. That's about it. Sign up and come hang out!
@@Hyce777 sounds great!
I'm curious, does 91 have a single head governor or two head governor? I've been doing some research on governors, and I cannot remember which one was put on her.
She's got a single at the moment. She's worn both at the museum though...
I don't know if you've covered this before, but what is the mechanism that causes the compressor to cycle? Is it some kind of check valve that is hooked to a throttle on the compressor? I always wondered about that...
We haven't really talked about it too much, save for loco 360; there's a governor that's connected to the main reservoir pressure that allows more steam to head to the pump or not.
@@Hyce777 Ok, that makes more sense. I suppose I'm just having a hard time visualizing how it works. It's a pretty neat piece of engineering!
Hi Mark great video man. Hey do you think you guys could do a Tom Scott on 491s little trip with no crew in Alamosa? Thank you ahead of time and I can’t to see you guys do more of those videos.
no because if we all know the story the game doesn't work
@@Hyce777 aww I didn’t think of that lol my bad. Is there any more of the Tom Scott rip off coming they are really good man.
@@nw611J possibly one more depending on how the edit turns out. That's the last of what we've filmed. We'll gladly film more. Lol
@@Hyce777 i got you Mark makes since hope you can post that last one and I hope you guys can come up with more soon. Hey do you think you could do more videos on Smokeboxes challenger? Thanks man Jeff aka NW611J.
Unrelated to the video, but a local theme park had a derailment today on their track, overturning a couple passenger cars. Four injured but nothing severe. I was just curious if it is common for the wheel sets to come off of the older passenger cars when they went belly up.
Cause not announced yet, video suggest a misaligned switch. Engine is an 0-4-0 from late 1930s. Not able to find make or model of cars yet
I heard about that, I heard minor injuries, which is good with how bad it looked. Ouch.
For older cars, the bolsters are all gravity, so if you tip over, the car usually falls separate from the trucks. Modern roller bearing wheelsets also then fall separate from the trucks, but the older plain bearing stuff sticks together so long as the journal box doesn't break up.
Ah good old Westinghouse, a name known to many in the nuclear havy
that was cool
Could you do another fire box video it would be awesome
Already filmed :)
The independent brake looks similar to 20 independent but flip 90 degrees and in a better spot
It's actually a completely different style with much more function, and as you noted, much more ergonomic.
So how come the Try-cocks are on the engineer's side of the cab and not the fireman's?
Fine video - excellent length, as we get a chance to analyze the results over a longer period.
Just one thing... You are not "filming", There is no use of a celluloid based strip with holes down the side and a photosensitive emulsion thereon. That is like saying you are "steaming" when running an SD-40 or an Acela.
You are "RECORDING", no more, no less.
That's fair enough Doc. :)
im surprised how little the compressor really has to work on this
Majority of the work is done at the beginning, charging the train all the way up at the beginning. If it was a really long train, it would need more pumps to recharge, but it's not really long.
@@Hyce777 Im curious what the displacement of those compressors are with each stroke, i feel like it must be a lot
simply put valves valve, gauges gauge and compressors compressor.....don't even get me started on hand valves
First
Immona return and grade you for accuracy.
I got 40s in before I decide to come back. Right now you're -1 point for calling it a compressor, not an air pump; +30 for effort.
I'll be back...
It's not a pump... So... Lol
@@Hyce777 Noob.
The AB catechism (George's own) calls it a pump. I have a 26R diagram that does likewise. Mebbe the 9 1/2" stroker got replaced with something from Harbor Freight at some point. In this case you would be [somewhat] excused.
(That _is_ what my steam plant experience says, tho)
😜
@@77thTrombone Mr. Westinghouse might call it a pump, but as a device it's not a pump.
Much like people calling engines in cars motors. Yes, accepted terminology but the nitpicky of us (me) know it's wrong.
@@Hyce777 yes. You seemed to be cut from similar stock (as me,) which is why I chose to snipe you with itchy powder. I _guess_ that for the first part of the industrial revolution folks called them pumps because they acted like a sort of pump. At some point, folks decided that pumps handle (hehe!) incompressible fluids, while compressors deal with compressibles.
Nowadays it's just a technicality used to irritate young upstarts.
@@77thTrombone lol, pretty much. We're a special bunch, aren't we? You'll note I also used "air pump" in the thumbnail because it fits a lot easier than compressor... Lol
Dang. Thought that compound air pump would be cycling like a air pump. Ya know constant back n forth like 100 cycles per second. Anyhoo when he stopped. The trains brakes all went to 0 psi? Or how's that. You put pressure on line to hold the brakes off ? Right. @#$& More Beanze please🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥oh is there a steam guage on the. Clylinder s or de of the steamy, I know. You have one for boiler presser later. Baseman out