Straight men will say they can't see the romantic chemistry between two men, but then rush to associate acts of friendship from women in their life with signs of attraction.
As a pan dude I really don't care if gays ship or write BL because it's usually wholesome or specific to their struggle. 99% of female written BL is rape acceptance and I find it hard to even approach the medium anymore
Tbh I've started hearing the same excuse even for wlm ships for a while now. It's a dumb take regardless, ppl can ship friends and there's nothing wrong with that.
@@BeneathFullMoon it's so weird. like i've seen people hating on ships because they're friendships which just doesn't make sense. like most the relationships i know were formed from friendships
This argument will never not be weird to me. They be like "you don't know what real friendship is" - MA BOY, you don't know what a real friendship turned romance is, then. My life partner is also my best friend and the best friendship I've ever had, with the added bonus of really good s*x 💀 it's like literally having your cake and eat it. You get the best of both worlds.
@ yeah one relationship i had ended up with me and the person becoming really good friends even after the relationship, friendships and relationships go hand in hand
@@raphaelrodgers7407 but that's a stupid argument? People have always shipped friends. "Why can't they just be friends" has never been said when a male and a female character were friends to the point that some people genuinely think a man and a woman can't be friends without romance in real life 😂
To be fair, every time they click on a video to make a comment, that tells the algorithm to feed them more of the same content. Commenting boosts a video, so that it increases the likelihood that it'll be seen. So they're basically making the algorithm bend that direction, especially for themselves.😂😂😂😂
The jjk fandom out there shipping Sukuna and friking Cinderella but noooo I can't ship the two characters with the best chemistry in this whole show XD
@@peachykeen53 yep it's bbno$. The Jayce cosplayer with him is Will Nef (a twitch streamer). That whole stream is fun, them recreating iconic fanarts and fan animations are amazing.
Ngl, now that I think about it, tou're right. When people think of a romantic relationship (fictional or not), some of them automatically think of sex which is like.... yeah sure, but not every romantic relationship is about it or includes it. Any type of relationship is first all about emotional bond of two people, but somehow when it's romantic, sex is brought up and considered as the primary thing for a relationship to work. Imo, this might be why some people are upset with shippers, because when they see shippers shipping two characters, especially same sex ships, they think of sex immediately.
@@blumae1170 On the day we got to Queer Theory in my "Interpreting Literature" class in college, my professor (baby boomer or gen-x) asked the class (mostly gen-z) "When someone mentions gay couples, the first thing you think of is sex, right?" To which the entire class answered in unison "No!" Tbf, she said that was a good thing, and noted it as a generational difference. But it still feels crazy to me that not long ago, thinking like that would've been considered normal.
Yes thank you!! The split attraction model is a literal thing, a person's orientation can be different for romantic and sexual attraction, and romance and sex do not go together automatically!!!!
I'm literally a straight man and I've gotten comments on my jayvik art saying "you people always make them gay!!" and every single time I use a photo of me and my girlfriend they call me a closeted bisexual 😂 they're just mad that I'm comfortable enough in my masculinity that I can enjoy two dudes kissing normally
if gay shipping will destroy society, im now moving to the internet and gay ship the shit out of every male character i come across, because our current society sucks
One of the best things for a guy's mental health is to stop worrying about if anything he does seems gay. Let yourself be tender or soft around your boys. Or you'll never be happy.
these people say that "oh, two bros or two gal pals can't just be friends without being gay" but then they're also the same people who ship a girl and a guy even if they're meant to just be friends??
It’s worse if the girl and guy are not even friends, such as Gojohime. I am not saying you can’t ship them, just that it is odd to like one and yet endorse one where the woman hates the guy.
@Mialikesthings Gojohime is proof that people will ship a guy with a girl so long as she breathes within a 15km radius from him 💀💀 but we’re the ones forcing it when it comes to Gojo and Geto even though they share WAYY more screen time together and have a far more nuanced dynamic
True, the vikjayce shippers have been shipping them for 9+ yrs now. Arcane just made the lore mainstream. Now that I'm delving nore inti league lore, most of these fans don't even read the lore of their fave characters, but still have the audacity to suddenly care about lore of the characters the moment they heard these two characters are being shipped. Tbh, I love how wholesome the interaction between the JayVik (arcane) and VikJay (league) shippers. If there's anyone in a fandom I can count on remembering the stories and details about characters, it's the shippers.
i don’t play league or watch arcane but i think it’s funny how it seems like people are forgetting that these characters existed before arcane. like people have been shipping this stuff for ages
"Why can't they just be friends?" and yet they won't even let them be friends because they're so neck deep in the toxic masculinity mindset that any form of platonic affection or vulnerability comes off as gay to them.
@@Vector12345tthat goes with anything. F/M, M/M, F/F, etc. If there's a dynamic, people want to explore that dynamic, platonic or otherwise. It's practically inevitable. It's happens way more with F/M relationships I'd say. All it takes is one interaction.
You're more likely to see that from people fed up with a pair of female characters who have a contrived conflict over the affection of the male mc in canon. It's a complaint we give to the original media writers, not the shippers that generally build a friendship between them so they can also kiss.
@Mialikesthings Exactly!! What was that one dude talking about "God Spice"?! 🤣🤣 That was NOT happening. Girl even said it herself that he didn't like her back
@Mialikesthings the funniest thing about this is the writers confirmed Viktor tried to recreate his relationship with Jayce through Sky when he was in his cult leader era Even when you could argue Viktor has gotten closer to Sky, it actually was about Jayce all along lmao
These dudebros keep saying the shippers can't stop making everything gay like they themselves wouldn't call a real life man gay for daring to be the littlest bit vulnerable in front of another man
It’s probably because they actually like the characters and they can only conceive of gay people as being something to be mocked and shamed, so therefore if Jayce and Viktor have a well written close relationship, and arcane is a good show that they enjoy, then it can’t possibly be gay. Bigots use this kind of logic all the time, (not to imply that anyone who doesn’t ship Jayvik is a bigot) if they don’t like something then it’s woke and gay and cringey, but if they do like something then it isn’t gay at all and the only cringey thing is the people saying it’s queer in the first place.
That's an argument that has always REEKED of homophobia to me. "People should put more respect on platonic male friendships because whenever I try to be physically or emotionally intimate with my friend people think we're gay". I'm always like "...Why? Why do you care? Why is it such a genuine horror to you that people assume your gay? You can just TELL them you're not, that he's just your friend. And if they don't believe it, that's on them!" Especially since boys and girls deal with this their whole lives. All it takes for most people is putting a boy and a girl of roughly the same age in the same room and have them breathe the same air. People will instantly go "OMG WHAT IF THEY KISSED?!😍" I don't see them crying out to stop shipping boys and girls together in media even if they don't end up together.
Pretty much. The entire conversation should have evolved into this exact comments thread decades ago. Instead I'm getting flashbacks to homophobic fandoms from 1999 CE.
Granted I'll say have some sympathy for them since they're victims of patriarchy just as much as everyone. it's a mindset that gets beaten into some men that vulnerability is somehow "unmanly" and that a man is never allowed to show any emotional vulnerability to anyone with the one exception being that he can be vulnerable around a women that he is regularly having sex with. And even then those same women can hold their vulnerability against them so it's better for them to just never ever ever ever be vulnerable ever.
I actually burst out laughing at the Sasuke and Naruto kissing one. Does this dude even know what he's talking about? I WAS THERE, GANDFALF, I WAS THERE 3000 YEARS AGO and SasuNaru was KING.
Aren't relationships supposed to be built on a bond of mutual respect, understanding, and love for each other, like a friendship? I genuinely don't get their logic. I ship a lot of best friends because they have the chemistry there already, and guess what? There are best friends that I don't ship that people do. Do I cry and say they're ruining what I love? No, because the original material is there, and nothing changes. This is homophobia at its finest.
That's just it. Those guys don't think romantic relationships should have mutual respect, understanding, or even genuine love. Love is just transactional to them. They literally can't grasp the concept no thanks to their misogyny.
My first understanding of romantic relationships, way back when my age was a single digit, was basically friendship with kissing. A best friend you want to kiss. Thats how i first understood love. So im not sure how anyone could think you cant be friends with your romantic partner. Or romantic with your friend. If you cant hang out and be close without it being just sexual, youre not in love.
the dude-bros going "but they're not canon" as if that is a valid argument to discourage shippers when people have shipped characters from different franchises that have no chance of ever meeting also the "homosexual culture of the west" while danmei/BL are such huge genres, especifically in east asian fandoms is insane. someone bring the dude-bros to a doujinshi convention
"Not being canon" is especially not a valid argument when Crossovers are a fanfiction staple especially in the Anime/Manga sphere. Just the number of InuYasha and Yu Yu Hakisho crossovers where Kagome is paired with one of the boys from YYH.
I have a straight guy friend who, in fact, does not like many gay ships. He does want to really appreciate purely platonic guy bonds. The difference is, he can actually understand and respect other peoples opinions and see why they would think something is gay!!!!! Love that guy !!!! Be like that guy
We ship not because we think they look gay. We ship because since they already have such a strong friendship and bond, it would be even more amazing if they were actually together, it just makes for a better story and we like romance. If you get upset over girs shipping men, you have no life. Live and let live.
Plus, most shippers aren't TRULY looking for their ships to be canon. We all most accept that it'll never happen... But anyone who needs canon to ship will honestly not survive the winter~
@@baddragon7057 literally not. Friendships can be just as fulfilling, sometimes more. And I'm not just saying this being annoyed with shippers shipping every male friendship. I'm annoyed with EVERY friendship being shipped. As If romantic connections are somehow superior to friendships.
"Don't make everything gay!!" "Can't two guys be just friends??" Ok so, first of they're always the same guys that say 'separate fiction from reality'. Besides the same argument could be used for m/f relationships, like why can't we get a guy and a girl be just friends without romance? Whether you see two male characters as friends or lovers - you can't go and disrespect people's perception of a clearly unlabelled relationship between two characters and expect them to respect yours. Also these "Why can't they be just friends!!" Mfs why are you so hurt from people hc them as gay? You ain't gonna die and friends to lovers is adorable.
I'm a majority-platonic guy when it comes to male ships (because shipping = relationship, and not just lemons), and one thing I've learned as a decade-long fandom veteran: Saying "no" makes this crowd, young and passionate, just double and triple down out of sheer spite. So essentially, just let it be.
A lot of the comments imply, or outright state, that friendship between two men is this sort of ethereal magical bond. Dude, you have a best friend, chill. Other people have best friends too, of all genders. These people think they invented the wheel just because they have a non-sexual connection to another human being of the same sex. 13:24 this right here? this is their issue with gay shipping. If two male characters are portrayed in a romantic or sexual light, they see it as a threat to their friendships in real life. These men are afraid of being seen as gay when hanging out with their best friend, but that is only a problem because they think being gay is gross. Homophobia is the reason they're afraid to be intimate with their bros, but then they point to yaoi shippers as the source of their issues. Guess what, geniuses? If homophobia didn't exist, nobody would give you a hard time for having a bromance. But you're out here trying to fight homophobia with more homophobia.
Exactly! It's literally a cycle of homophobia that needs to be broken but men have been in that cycle for so long, that's all they know. They can't see that they're own inner circle is/could be the problem.
7:58 is genuinely bizarre because that whole explanation just sounds like someone explaining WHY they ship it. do they think people ship things for absolutely no reason and don't have these deep thoughts about the ships?? that little speech just made ME want to ship them and i've never even watched the show.
I sorta relate to it because I feel like in a lot of stories romantic relationships *can* feel contrived and make a dynamic seem more shallow, at the same time that’s my own opinion, and I respect multiple interpretations of any given character. Though I think some of these people just don’t like queer stuff. And of course that’s not saying all romantic relationships are more shallow.
@@samkeiser9776 yea tbh that's why i prefer ships that have more of a deep basis, for lack of a better word. like, if they have a profound connection that's unique and fascinating that i can't look away from. i rarely ship stuff if it's shallow just cause it's "cute".
it being wrong or problematic has never stopped plenty of shippers. they get annoyed at us for interpreting things in a sapphic way. meanwhile there's literal thousands of years of het media, plays and books if you want to stick to that sort of thing.
Only het ships in those media are not main theme. GI Joe has the best love stories, but the main theme is military. Justice League - superheroes save ppl.
@@ScarlettShana In which version of reality are you on?? Het romance-focused content is extremely prevalent and could be found with a single search. In our case, it's minor gay representation and relationships in other genres that are rare. Het relationships are so normalized that even genres that aren't romance, there are still an abundance of them
The Sam/Frodo comment had me reeling because not only is it one of the og gay ships of fandom, but it was so prevalent to the point that Sir Ian Mckelin made sure that Sam held Frodo’s hand in a certain scene because he KNEW fans would be looking for it. He wanted to make sure fans who had seen something romantic between those two characters would be seen. Heck, even the general public have but commenting on it for decades (in a pretty reductive “isn’t it funny how GAY these guys are?” but still).
You don't have to like shipping. But if you don't, why do you interact with shipping content.?Why leave a goddamn comment? People need to mind their own businesses.
You don't even have to interact with ships you don't like if you like some but not all shipping content. You don't see me sending hate to people who ship straight pairings.
see, that's the thing... they care just as much about shipping as the shippers. but they don't even have a thing they like that they're going for, they're literally just here for the ship wars, aka the worst part of shipping culture, without reaping the benefits (looking at how much drawn/written porn the fans produce). they seek the bad part and leave the fun part on the cutting room floor. saddest shit I've ever seen.
Jayvik is Sonadow all over again fr. No think about it. Every person against it goes "all they do is fight" when all you have to do is watch Sonic Prime. Those writers knew EXACTLY what they were doing. "Sonic isn't someone who would get into a relationship" while that can be argued as true, Sonic is someone who craves adventure. I can easily see him spinning being in a relationship as being in a new adventure. (Also, in Sonic Frontiers he outright goes "Amy...I should've made up my mind sooner". Meaning he isn't totally against the idea)
God, the whole idea of getting mad at another ship is so alien to me now. I’m Sonaze till I die, but I have nothing AGAINST Sonadow even if it’s not my ship… The only times I’ve ever developed a distaste for ships is when that ship’s fandom has attacked _my_ ship unprovoked, like with Toriel/Sans, and even then, I don’t hate the ship itself.
L×light,ygo maleshipping, superhero shipping ,rivals shipping(not the ygo one) ,legit they want any male dynamic with the male characters to be completely 100% platonic or even antagonistic and make their dynamic from healthy to be awful
I never understood why ppl are mad when fans are shipping FICTIONAL characters! Characters who simply do not exist beyond the Show/Game.. Like chill bro they're not shipping you and your brother
From a psychological perspective, it is because the subconscious mind cannot tell the difference between Fiction and Real. So, the Image within the Subconscious mind is attached to Emotion and Desire. Thus, shipping and anti-shipping wars.
I think Coley has a SERIOUSLY good point about the perspective of friendship as foundation, and the haters perceiving romance as something totally different, that could never naturally grow out of a friendship, because there's some internalized shame about s-xuality being 'nasty' or 'degrading' in some way... And because they see other men as equals, they don't think it's right to degrade them like that! Women, on the other hand, were MADE for that... So they were told... Ugh. I feel really sad for their future partners, man, cuz they'll treat THEM as lesser, if they can't imagine being friends! And that'll just contribute to this cycle of holding 'normalcy' as far apart from 'gay' as two different planets :(
I'll add this to the list of dudebro psycho analysis: 1. Imprints friendships onto male characters, so when see gay ship suddenly feel gay and its "degrading", aka Gay is an insult. Complains about shippers making "straight characters gay" but will impulsively call other men gay if they breathe wrong. 2. If het ship is platonic then woman is "independent and dominant" cos not claimed by man, aka dudebro suddenly feel gay and feels need to humble fictional female character cos ego fragile. Muh misogyny UwU 3. Romantic relationship is sexual degradation of woman, so if gay relationship then man being degraded. Dudebro feel gay, must react with homophobia 😂
"I think Coley has a SERIOUSLY good point about the perspective of friendship as foundation, and the haters perceiving romance as something totally different" Yes! I keep getting surprised that that's not how everyone thinks. Personally, I've always believed your romantic partner should also be your best friend. Like Coley said, it's *the* foundation to build upon. That doesn't mean a romantic relationship should start with an already developed friendship, but it should at least equally develop as a friendship as well.
I have come across many ships that I dont ship and even if I see their fanarts, fics, smut, etc.. i still wont ship it. So if seeeing the romantic ship ruins their view of the pair as platonic and cant stop thinking about them as romantic, then who is the real shipper here?
REAL!! I’ve been saying this shit for so long. Whether they like it or not, shippers are one of the MANY backbones of fandoms/communities. And there will never be one without it¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Ah..good ol’ fragile masculinity! Also, side note and probably SLIGHTLY off topic, but part of me would lowkey kill to see a romance between two dudebros or frat bros or whatever the hell. Like have it be about two of em overcoming internalized homophobia and fear that they’re lesser then for liking men, I’d fuckin’ love to see that
I would bet that a huge percentage of these guys are part of the "men and women can't be just friends" faction and I'm elated they're getting somewhat of a taste of their own medicin now 😂
I think a big misunderstanding a lot of outsiders have about shipping is that they think shipping two characters mean that you believe those characters are or should be canonically together. To me shipping isn't that I think the source text is trying to convey a relationship, just that I would be interested in a story about that relationship. Like I don't think Naruto and Sasuke should have gotten married in the end because they were canonically in love, but I would enjoy a different story where everything is mostly the same except they are in love. Like shipping isn't like a conspiracy theory where you try to read into a romantic relationship where there isn't one, it's more like using a non romantic relationship between two characters as a jumping off point to imagine a romantic relationship with similar dinamics.
exactly this. nail on the head. and like... even if I would've loved to see a gay relationship be canonical, the reality typically is that the setup would've had to start way earlier, and canon already passed up a ton of golden opportunities to deepen the bond, so too much repair work would have to be done to canon to make it a good idea anyway. most of the time, it's too late... even for relationships that were queer coded on purpose but not allowed to be any more explicit, and especially for relationships that were set up intentionally as queer bait. so the vast majority of shipping is just imagining the story if it were better equipped to give a romance to the pair in question.
They probably get that perception from the loud minority of toxic shippers who do insist that their ship is canon or should be endgame; the ones who engage in the infamous ship wars and harassment campaigns and turn to hating the franchise on a dime once the story ends without their ship being explicitly confirmed in canon. Outrage is always going to farm the most attention, so it makes sense a lot of people on the outside would end up missing the forest for the trees and think all shippers must be like that even when most of the ppl who engage in shipping are reasonable and chill.
Yeah like these guys really dislike women for a bunch of "straight men." You think other dudes are inherently superior to women? Idk.... sounds kinda gay
I agree with them… for Guy/Girl Friendships. We are starving over here. I wish more people would appreciate platonic guy/girl ships (while not being in a group of 3+ people) But aye, who am I to deny people from having fun shipping.
My best friend loves M/F platonic bromance so M/F BFFs getting shipped icks him just as much as when M/M BFFs or F/F BFFs get shipped. Bro has like 60 stories he is developing and ~45/60 of the MC in his stories have opposite gender BFFs. J and C (J also has other male and female Besties). T and Captain. H and M. D and F (F is D's forever bestie. Though I do ship them even though I like the other love interest Y. I just want F giving D's sister a "and this is why you suck" at their wedding to be canon as a dig at his sister's "she couldn't take care of you" line from when she tried to break up D and F's friendship when they were 9.) L and S. B and S (B's other female BFF, C, is his fiancee)
I once saw a Twitter discussion about whether it's okay to ship Frodo and Sam together. This one guy said that you should report gay Tolkien fanfictions and harass the authors, to which the other person said that you should just leave fans alone, to which the first person replied, saying simething like, "Well,That's just like Eru and Morgoth. We can't let evil prevail, we should intervene." This wasn't even a small thread, it was a whole discussion. The fans are the reason why I could never bring myself to read Lord of the Rings. I do find the idea of Morgoth and Sauron being evil , not because they want to enslave the world but because they are FrodoXSam shippers, incredibly funny though xD
Omg I've never had this kind of experience in the LOTR fandom. Everyone I know in that fandom thinks SamFro is canon. That twitter discussion is so horrifying but I promise it's not the norm. Also Sam and Frodo kiss a LOT in the books. They're so worth it🥺
noooo please don't let those toxic ppl stop you from reading lotr :( it is truly such a beautiful series with a wonderful fandom, as long as u stay away from the insane side !! on tumblr especially, it's v chill n shipper-friendly
7:34 brother what? Women literally have a sisterhood that's built on DECADES and CENTURIES of having to do what we can to keep ourselves, each other and kids safe FROM MEN. Like all their talk about being protectors is just against other men, they clearly haven't looked at themselves in the mirror 😂
Being aroace myself, it was really upsetting when CL essentially pulled the ace card and weaponised it on Viktor: a disabled, chronically ill guy. He was definitely using the ace label to save himself and make himself not look homophobic like how JK Rowling said Dumbledore was gay to make herself look less homophobic (and transphobic ofc). It also gave the connotation of “this guy has got a lot more going on his life to be thinking about banging people, especially not Jayce” when that is really shallow one dimensional writing to me and kinda ableist. Let disabled characters be in different kinds of relationships instead of just friendships or isolated! Not only that but the ace card wasn’t even played right if the goal was to stop the ship! You can be ace and still be very involved in a romantic relationship, which is what JayVik is at the end of the day because sexual love and romantic love are two different forms of affection. Lastly, it would’ve been so boring and stereotypical if the Czech/Russian man turned cyborg called The Machine Herald who is trying to get rid of emotions (his own and others) was asexual. That’s so bland and hurtful to the community… I don’t mind if people only see Jayce and Viktor as friends or brothers, but when they do it just to put down the fans who see them romantically and spout homophobic nonsense that’s when I say “you know what? I’m gonna ship them even harder now to spite you!”
No actually I feel this so hard, CL’s tweet was stupid on so many levels. Not only is there very blatant romantic subtext between Jayce & Viktor in season 2, Viktor being Asexual, (Although his comment implied that he meant AroAce) doesn’t even negate that interpretation either? Like don’t get me wrong, I too was really excited about Viktor being AroAce, as I adored Jayce & Viktor’s friendship in S1. my biggest headcanon is bi Jayce & AroAce Viktor in a qpr, (I love bi-ace solidarity) but with the way season 2 was written in the 1st place, Viktor being ace in any capacity doesn’t feel right at all from both a thematic, narrative, and subtextual standpoint. Sorry, I didn’t mean to brain vomit everywhere, jayvik’s dynamic is really interesting to me, and as an AroAce that loves picking apart and analyzing both platonic & romantic subtext, CL makes me mad XD one day I’m going to make an Arcane video essay because I have a bone to pick with the writers lmao.
I remember hearing about a yugio comment in a drawfee video that said something like: “They aren’t gay, they were just inscribed on the same tablet” ( or something like that I’ve never watched yugio ) This video will remind me of it forever
Drawfee mentioned! (horn emoji) They've been a really good influence on me, they're all so comfortable with queerness and treat it light-heartedly and good-naturedly like it's totally normal, and I wish more of our society was like them :)
Perhaps the other thing here is that "dudebros" don't see the friendship to lovers pipeline, because to them "friendship" equals friendszoned. They see "friend" as an obstacle to "lover" whereas we see friend as a potential ladder up to lover. To them, love is transactional. 💀 It's also why those same people say "men and women can't "just be friends"" Surely it's not because they realise friendship requires mutual respect... right? Hmmm 🤔
No, i would say its investment on the character's identity, you have them as dudes who, for instance with sam of lord of the rings, has a whole ass wife, and then suddenly he is bi with frodo? Its weird as you already have an idea of the character and being queer is not in it, but that also doesn't mean it's harmful, it's just weird but doesn't requires most of these comments
Why do people keep forgetting that shipping is a thing 😭 like ofc people ship these two characters with good chemistry, that's in every fandom (and I encourage it 😼)
Bro I stumbled upon a Wangxian reel where I legit saw a comment saying that Wangxian isn't gay and to stop shipping them. Like what?? They are so fxcking gay that they do it every day! Like, did you miss the entire plot of Mo dao Zu shi? My guess is that they only watched the Untamed and didn't realize that it was a queer show because of the heavy Chinese censorship. Despite the palpable tension in the show, they'd still not understand the sheer fruitiness of it all.
I like Wangxian because they are both besties and a couple. They treat each other as equals and don't have weird power dynamics between them that turn me off other BL/Yaoi pairings
LOL about the Sam and Frodo bit - I am 69 and when I was in college 50 years ago, I took a Tolkein class. We definitely talked about Sam and Frodo together - Baby's First Slash pairing!
Ngl, the weirdest thing with this whole situation is when they actively go through jayvik vids/discussions just bash it in the comments/replies. It's making me confused like... bro, you're about to see more of this content if you interact with it more. It's also a bit funny they always bring up that one of the creators consider them brothers (same person who when asked by a lore enthusiast of the league commmunity, can't answer or don't know the details happening in his own show), but completely ignore other creators of the show who's like chill with it or even ships it. (Even admitted to having fics among themselves). One of the writers even admited that they may have made their ending accidentally romantic when looking back at it again, but said people can interpret what happens next whatever they want. I truly believe that the creator, writer, and animators of Arcane are telling their own story. The whole production doesn't have an unified answer/stance about something.
I truly can't stand the idea that interpreting male friendships in media as gay somehow robs straight men of friendship representation. first of all, if you want to be close friends with the men in your life, do that. do it in whatever way you choose. real life is calling, and for as much as you love to tell shippers to go touch grass, you seem awfully invested in the idea that fictional media must spoon feed you all of your male/male friendship dynamics, rather than you being expected to go out into the world and forge your own. something about glass houses and throwing stones is tickling my brain here. alternatively, maybe we do agree about the importance of representation in media. it does make you feel seen, and validate your experiences, doesn't it? well, guess which demographic has had historically little sanctioned canonical representation in media. that's right folks, it's the gays. people get sick of hearing about it all the time online, _because_ every inch of representation that's ever clawed it's way into the mainstream had to fight to get there. that's why the conversation around queerbaiting exists. at first, if a writer wanted to get something gay into a mainstream piece of media, they'd have to hide it with queer coding... aka, little hints that they knew gay people would notice, but that would fly under the censorship radar. later on, when the presence of queer coded characters proved to be a point of major popularity, a lot of media decided to ape the optics of that, and we got queerbaiting. aka, hinting at a gay relationship, and all but promising that it could happen someday, without ever having any intention of pulling the trigger for real. so, in other words... male friendship is the default canonical status of even the most queer hinted relationships that exists on television. and this is true for just about every potentially gay pair that gets popularly shipped in media, going all the way back to Kirk and Spock. the volume of ships where dudebros will call the gay interpretation delusional actually proves this. how many of those got to be canon? practically none, despite the amount of justification the viewership clearly noticed. they've never just given us gay shit. you've always won that battle. what the fuck are you whining about? and like, I hear you... it is important to give examples in media, of strong, close, non-toxic male friendships, and masculinity in general. and this also goes for parent/child relationships between males, or healthy male mentors... all of it is very important. but do not act like you've never gotten that before. ultimately, this shouldn't even be a fight. I hate the suffering olympics, we should not be competing over who has suffered more, and one of us getting what we want doesn't have to come at the expense of the other. but my god. when y'all can't even handle people in fan spaces creating strictly non-canonical fan works of the characters, it makes you guys seem like absolute babies. literally, fan works are where this starved demographic DIYs their own representation because it's so sparse, or so anemic after censorship strips it down to a pale facsimile of what it could've been. it costs zero dollars to just steer clear of the things you don't want to see, and stop seeking content that makes you mad. side note: if the worry is that a ship's popularity will lead fans to try and affect the actual creators of the material, and sway their decisions somehow... just understand that creative control over a project always lies in the hands of its creator. if they decide to fold, that's their prerogative, and their reasons are their own. fans who wanted the gay stuff canonized have had to swallow their disappointment time and time again when it doesn't happen... some with more grace than others, but this isn't new. if you have to do it once, I promise you'll be fine. do I think this kind of public demand can be taken too far? absolutely... as with anything. if the public fervor is getting to a level where people are threatening the author, or behaving inappropriately for the boundaries of a parasocial relationship, then that needs to stop no matter what kind of demands the fans have on their mind. but that veers more into the realm of fan etiquette, and it applies to everyone in equal measure. you're allowed to share your own opinions, art, writing, theory crafting, etc. but so am I. if I think two characters are gay, I have as much right to examine the canon for that reading, as you have to say that you just don't see it, or just don't like it. we can agree to disagree and part ways. but we are both equally waiting on what the creator will decide to do with their art. you can't put pressure on them to make it what you want either. what cannot be allowed to happen on any level, is genuine disrespect.
These people the moment a guy and a girl in cannon say one word to each other: “oh they’re so into each other” Also them the moment two guys spend incredibly close moments together: “noo they’re just close friends you’re all delusional!”
Then historians: A man and woman sitting near to each other in this artwork? They must be married. A god spending so much time with a handsome prince another god kills the prince out of jealousy? They were great friends.
A lot of those smell of misogyny honestly. They can't see their romantic partners/women as equals, as people with which they could have deep friendships or as something else than a convenient hole. To them a lover is nothing but the smashing. So when people start shipping characters because of their great chemistry and canon relationship they can't understand because to them those kind of relationships are only possible between friends since they think women don't have enough value for it. But that's only part of it. There's repressed gays in there, rejecting this like they reject themselves, the brainwashed just mindlessly repeating what they heard somewhere else and self-centered people that think THEIR interpretation is the only valid one. And of course the straight up homophobic crowd.
Your point about how they fail to realize that any male/female friendship would also have the fandom buzzing with curiosity on if they will become lovers but since it's straight then it's ok in their minds. It's so hypocritical of them.
To the dude-bros having a meltdown gate-keeping any fandom, that is for trolls under bridges. Here is a triple fish-slap now let me consume my delicious slash fic in peace like the yaoi gods intended
These types of ppl that don't like ships are afraid that shippers are gonna ruin a fandom,and make the writers cater to fans and make thier powerful male character "weak" (implies that him being gay will ruin thier idea of the man being strong ),the sentence "don't make this into mha fandom" is thier shield and "shippers ruin everything " is thier sword
Other commenters mentioned but I had to agree: Don’t get me started on sapphic ships. Like… there’s this and then you get intersectionality of sexism and fetishization from ppl. ATP I’ve just learned that I like multi shipping, and that a lot of fandoms don’t seem to address toxicity lol. Like for me at the least, I have my ships and stay in a corner. I’m used to ppl bashing my ships for existing so I just go to wlw for comfort as a lesbian 😤
akshually, *I* ship characters bc they just make my heart go doki-doki and THATS IT it doesnt need to be a deep commentary on mAlE fRieNdsHip (as if there were no representation of good, platonic, male friendships in media)
As someone who’s aromantic bisexual, I desperately want to see more friends with benefits rep that doesn’t lead to them falling in love. Gimme people who are buddies that also fuck sometimes and let them stay that way throughout the story!
It’s the same with wlw pairings and straight woman. “Noooo, you can’t ship those two, they see each other as sisters” (said characters never said anything like that in cannon). “Noooo, they are best friends, don’t erase it” (I think we do need more female friendship representations but my head cannons ain’t erasing anything, chill). “You are delusional!” (and then they ship Charlie and Alastor and no one bets an eye).
If I wrote fanfics, "jayce and viktor exist and do science together" would probably be a tag I'd use all the time, as well as the other things they do in the lab when nobody else is around 😳
Recently entered the DC comics fandom when I was mostly an anime guy beforehand the the amount of hate with shipping just seem so much worse there. At the same time though, when it comes to canon gay pairings for comics i feel that they usually go too safe and unproblematic, thus usually making the characters bland, leading to opportunistic people saying things like "gays don't sell", when its the more usual "bad writing doesn't sell"
They're absolute cowards over at DC. They have so much potential with shit like Lex Luthor having Supe's biological child and then they just pretend that's not the gayest thing they could possibly have written.
Personally, I hate Jason Todd and Roy Harper together. Because I think honestly. A more closer to comic accurate would be Dick Grayson and Roy Harper. Now conceptually, I think Jason and Roy would make sense, Only in the new 52. However, I very much dislike the new 52 for what it did to Roy as a character aging him down getting rid of his main feature of being a father or at least A father that lost his daughter (stupid event, I'm glad cry for justice is finally gone) I prefer pre new 52 and rebirth.. In the '80s Dick was the one to save Lian. The one who made it possible For Roy To have custody of his own daughter. (Now granted I do actually , Cheshire and Roy And think a lot of what she did evil was because of misogynistic racism against Asians and (For her nuking A nation that was to make Slade look better) So pedophilia apologist Cheshire was sold into slavery at young as 7, poisoned her master by age 10, ran away. Found Asian stereotype mentor that married her off at 16 because they were both poison Masters and the guy was several years older) Cheshire poisoned her Forced husband at 18 and ran, stumbling into Roy (Who was undercover as a villain at the time) He ghosted her, And left her pregnant (without him knowing) Because he thought that was safer for her. That only made her angrier. But give her credit, She was willing to show Roy Harper, her daughter and basically say join me and Will be happy together with our daughter so long as you quit the hero gig And he turned her down, And dick being a good buddy to Roy, stole her daughter and severed custody. The only problem with her is she is vindictive because of past trauma, And she only has a specific set of skills as a master of poison, Because she didn't have any formal education. Like '80s Cheshire was perfect pitch. It was misogyny and racism against Asian folk that made her hatable by the fandom. But I love her. Now I also ship,bRoy x Donna x wally x dick x Garth And or Jericho x dick and Jericho x Raven And dick x Starfire Basically the Titans are the New York Poly web base Follow up, For cyborg, I don't know man. I think Donna is a top And I don't think he's able to deal with her.. I think Dick and Donna are platonic soulmates, Wally and Linda are truly romantic soulmates And sorry cartoon 03 Titans fans, But I think Beast boy is Ace in the comics. Like he is too overly down in the comics I think he's doing a bid to compensate for the fact that he's the youngest Titan in the group, And nobody's touching him because they're decent human people. I do think Dick and Bette Kane(The daughter of the original batwoman Catherine Kane) The original Robin and BAT-GIRL Barbara, as she was introduced in the comics was 5 years younger than Bruce, But like 6 years older than Richard I think Dick and Bette Are like?, They were each other's first time but it was awkward and weird and they didn't continue and this was in secret between Now on to Justice League. Diana thinks most of them are babies compared to her, I think Bruce and Clark are good platonically, but I think Bruce is a coward that recognizes going down on or being. The bottom would be pretty fucking dangerous for him and he's too paranoid for that. Lois isn't, She is a trail seeker full and true Talia (Top ) ands Selina (switch) and Bruce (bottom) Honestly, I like Carol and Hal as a couple.. That's all I could think off the top of my head
Homophobia and sexism are like that epic handshake meme, I always see them happening together. Whenever someone is homophobic or sexist, they're usually also the other one as well. Fandoms always become toxic when it comes to ships and shipping, it's why I don't like interacting with others in the same fandoms as me anymore.
@@catdownthestreet well that doesnt sounds like a compliment? but yeah, I don't think that most of my "kind" really cares, even if most of us don't participate or like shipping dynamics its just easier to ignore them and kind of go on like that, and most of us are like that, I think.
It's not your cup of tea and that's valid! We all like different things in life. People are allowed to like or not like it, the important part is to just ignore it and not harass others about it. And that goes both ways. Non-shippers should not harass shippers, and vice versa. But to be clear, shippers also comprise of people shipping canon ships. So in that sense, you may think it's less weird if people ship Caitlyn and Vi, I assume?
Since getting into Sonic and shipping Sonadow, I have seen soooo many dude bros foaming at the mouth to tell us Sonadow shippers how disgusting they find Shadow x Sonic to be. Except not only do you get the “they have a deep bond of friendship and rivalry” you also get the guys who are like “noooooo they hate each other >:( they’re RIVALS! They would MURDER EACHOTHER” as if the constant fighting isn’t like 60% of the appeal for their tension and romance?
True, but if you watch Sonic Takeover, it confirms that Sonic and Shadow don’t hate each other-they just compete. Sonic Prime also proves that their dynamic can work, but fans hate admitting it or just find the ship disturbing. And you're right-rivals-to-lovers is extremely popular, making up about 70% of fandom ships. But the Sonic fandom treats Sonadow as a toxic couple.
thanks for making this video coley, i saw a tiktok the other day that pissed me off about this exact topic, and the comments were full of sexism and homophobia and decided that it was the last straw for the platform and decided to delete the app for my own good. again, thank you so much for uploading this.
These guys got some work to do. I’m not into shipping, i prefer platonic relationships since I’m Aro (plenty of Aro people like ships though, don’t put us all together) but I follow artists & read fanfictions with ships because the art or the writing is awesome. Even if I don’t agree with the view of someone, it’s fun to see everyone interpretations of characters relationships.
I think all the comments showed what you explained at the start, there is a fundamental difference between how shippers see shipping/relationships/gay as an extension of friendship and these commenters see it as a replacement. Thats why they're so upset, they don't realize all noses are pointed in the same direction, we just have different glasses on
Omg fr and especially in Shonen anime they are like "all you female fans who ship guys together destroy the whole fandom". Like my dear we keep the fandom awake. Without us your fandom would have gone extinct and also why do you care so much 😭😭😭 if you don't like a ship edit that popped on your fyp just scroll. Let people enjoy what they like
@@irengelic no offense, but you are also usually the ones who embrace the fandom. Let's not forget the fiasco that happened with Deku x Ochako (and I am someone who can't care less about who is Drku dating).
@@ambysta7602 and yet, you make me and other fans ashamed to admit that they are fans of the series because people would ask: "Isn't that the anime that has crazy fans, who sent death threats to the author for not making their gay ship canon?"
It's the Heavy/Medic discourse in tf2 all over again 😂 Honestly it's pretty sad how up in arms some people get over harmless ideas like shipping two fictional characters.
Hey Coley could you make a video on the classic fandom phenomena where people are super misogynistic towards female characters that "get in the way" of their gay ship (i.e. Mel Medarda). I feel like it's the inverse of this issue.
these people will act like romance (or sex, but not even sex tbh, just romance even) completely destroys any value or wholesomeness of a friendship and that friendship cannot exist in a romantic or sexual relationship and then wonder why their friendships feel hollow and guarded, and their bedrooms cold empty and dead inside.
god I hate when jayvik antis go out of their way to search up jayvik videos to say "they're brothers, you're toxic" or something. like let people ship what they want smh
Timebomb was right there! Two scientists who work on one project and carry the responsibility of their inventions, spent a lot of time by each others side AND are romantically in love with each other AND their relationship is not sexual. Why is it so hard to imagine if it literally happened in the same show? Ekko and Jayce often parallel each other, so why can't Jayce and Viktor have what Ekko and Powder had(or could've had lol) I don't like jayvik personally and see them as close friends but i also thought timebomb are just ex friends before 2nd season so i prefer stay open minded
@YourSleepParalysisDemon-b2p i may have worded this poorly, but their fates are often compared to eachother. Especially that time when they got in other universes. Ekko got to live a perfect version of his life and Jayce had go go from a lot of pain. And there Ekko meets Powder and Jayce meets Viktor. Both Powder and Viktor helped them to go to their home universe and motivated them to fight in the final battle. I mean Viktor can be to Jayce what Powder is to Ekko
@MK-zl1kc Oh yeah, I get what you're saying. Like how the lyrics of Me Meilluere Enmemie apply to both relationships concerning conflict, friendship, and romance. Thank you for the explanation
I will always remember that one time in an anime con circa2017. I had a table at the con with friends, and one of them had Jojo's fanart to sell. Jojo's fandom is fascinating to me in that aspect : you have everyone, from shipping fangirls to gym bros to LGBT's fashion pals. One dudebro, around 17 yo, spotting the cool Jojo's fanarts immediately called his friends "Look there are JBA drawings !!" They were so excited because it was the first Jojo's merch they saw in the big convention. Mind you, most of my friend's work was not ship art, so they didn't spot the "hand-holding food sharing's ones at first. "Wait, why [male A] and [maleB] are kissing ??". Snickers, baffled faces, embarrassed comments. "There are bros, wtf ?" "Why would people draw that ?' My friend's arms were crossed on their chest. They were slowly fanning themselves (it was super hot into the conv), probably nurturing a headache. Just imagine a mafia boss with a strong calm presence you've just annoyed. With a raised eyebrow and the "I have big brother experience" voice : "Really ? Have we read the same manga ?" Silence. Then one of the boys : "Alright, fair."
One thing that bothers me is people thinking shipping/being in arelationship = sexual content (which I assume for dudebros is the most horrible thing bc omg say gex but not joking), and especially with Viktor being Asexual (by the creators), when even so, asexual doesn't mean aromantic, Viktor can still love Jayce without the need to fuck him with the hexstrap (which is a shame but also he could still do it asexuality is a spectrum)
Out of curiosity I looked at the bad reviews of Castlevania: Nocturne, and every single one I saw complained about 1) Mizrak and Olrox being gay and 2) Richter not being super manly and badass 24/7. Straight men will get so mad when media they think should cater to them does anything else, it's comical
I mean, I remember some people arguing that Cait and Vi were "just friends" before season 2 came out 🫤 Some people just have a blind spot when it comes to this stuff ig
Absolutely they can! My husband is somewhere on the ace spectrum we've recently realised, and we've been together almost 15 years with our second kid on the way. He's a terrible romantic! His favourite mug has our wedding pictures all over it, which he made himself. Being asexual doesn't exclude you from romantic relationships, or even starting a family. He just sees and experiences sex differently to me, and that's ok.
A lot of asexuals themselves do not seem to realize this. I'll see a lot of asexual people go 'you can't ship that character they are asexual!' They clearly have not heard of the concept of platonic shipping.
@@WoodsideLegacy both of my parents have come to realize that they're on the ace spectrum, probably both demi. All thanks to me coming out as aroace lol
Queer ships will have the most heartbroking, doomed, intimate, understanding and written to meant to be with each other dynamic but ofc some guy goes to say it doesn’t mean anything bc it’s clearly not canon
Straight men will say they can't see the romantic chemistry between two men, but then rush to associate acts of friendship from women in their life with signs of attraction.
Is not ther fault, they dont rekognize the semnals.
😢❤
Probably because they do that irl 😭 I’ve seen so many guys take acts of kindness as flirting
i was gonna say that i'm a straight man who loves romantic chemistry between two men, but then i remembered i'm sort of bisexual 💀
@@prageruwu69i forget im bisexual so often lmao
As a pan dude I really don't care if gays ship or write BL because it's usually wholesome or specific to their struggle.
99% of female written BL is rape acceptance and I find it hard to even approach the medium anymore
people will always cry about the beauty of friendship until it's a friendship between a man and a woman
Tbh I've started hearing the same excuse even for wlm ships for a while now. It's a dumb take regardless, ppl can ship friends and there's nothing wrong with that.
@@BeneathFullMoon it's so weird. like i've seen people hating on ships because they're friendships which just doesn't make sense. like most the relationships i know were formed from friendships
This argument will never not be weird to me. They be like "you don't know what real friendship is" - MA BOY, you don't know what a real friendship turned romance is, then. My life partner is also my best friend and the best friendship I've ever had, with the added bonus of really good s*x 💀 it's like literally having your cake and eat it. You get the best of both worlds.
@@ananana5200 exactly this is what i want for my ships i don'T want superficial romance for them they should be besties AND lovers🫡
@ yeah one relationship i had ended up with me and the person becoming really good friends even after the relationship, friendships and relationships go hand in hand
Why do these dudes act like male friendships are rare in media? They're like super common lol 😂
They dont consume media 😅?
They are _significantly_ more common than gay relationships.
They probably mean the _fans_ making everything gay, not the writers.
Most male relationships, are not effectuate or close.
And many men get mad because they feel like they can’t be friends and be vulnerable
@@raphaelrodgers7407 but that's a stupid argument? People have always shipped friends.
"Why can't they just be friends" has never been said when a male and a female character were friends to the point that some people genuinely think a man and a woman can't be friends without romance in real life 😂
everytime they complain about gay shipping we rig the algorithm for them to get more
based
To be fair, every time they click on a video to make a comment, that tells the algorithm to feed them more of the same content. Commenting boosts a video, so that it increases the likelihood that it'll be seen.
So they're basically making the algorithm bend that direction, especially for themselves.😂😂😂😂
Their rigging their own algorithms😭 the more they hate comment the more those vids pop up
@Cassidy-t3eEXACTLYYYYY😭 AND WE TRY TO WARN THEM EVERY TIME BUT THE HOMOPHOBES WONT LISTEN💀
Hell yeah
They act like they havent acted like this with every female/male friendship.
Most friendships will be shipped, it's simply the fate of chemistry.
hell, even characters who have never even interacted get shipped all the time too.
Yes, they act so ...uh 😅
@JeIIyfrog that's homophobia for you
The jjk fandom out there shipping Sukuna and friking Cinderella but noooo I can't ship the two characters with the best chemistry in this whole show XD
@@prageruwu69 yah
"Ugh all these fangirls ship them."
My brother in Christ so does a male rapper
YOU SAW HIM TOO? wait is he like bb0n or something, I can' spell
Pretty sure it’s bbno$ (“Baby No Money”). Apparently he did a full on cosplay with someone too 😂
@@peachykeen53 they kiss ✨️✨️
@@peachykeen53 yep it's bbno$. The Jayce cosplayer with him is Will Nef (a twitch streamer). That whole stream is fun, them recreating iconic fanarts and fan animations are amazing.
My respect for him shot through the roof he's so real
I dont think these people understand that a romantic relationship doesnt have to include sexual attraction
@@amziedragon6619 they need a normal relationahip first to lern the diferences.
🦐
Ngl, now that I think about it, tou're right. When people think of a romantic relationship (fictional or not), some of them automatically think of sex which is like.... yeah sure, but not every romantic relationship is about it or includes it. Any type of relationship is first all about emotional bond of two people, but somehow when it's romantic, sex is brought up and considered as the primary thing for a relationship to work. Imo, this might be why some people are upset with shippers, because when they see shippers shipping two characters, especially same sex ships, they think of sex immediately.
@@blumae1170 On the day we got to Queer Theory in my "Interpreting Literature" class in college, my professor (baby boomer or gen-x) asked the class (mostly gen-z) "When someone mentions gay couples, the first thing you think of is sex, right?"
To which the entire class answered in unison "No!"
Tbf, she said that was a good thing, and noted it as a generational difference. But it still feels crazy to me that not long ago, thinking like that would've been considered normal.
As an aroace, I couldn't agree more
Yes thank you!! The split attraction model is a literal thing, a person's orientation can be different for romantic and sexual attraction, and romance and sex do not go together automatically!!!!
I'm literally a straight man and I've gotten comments on my jayvik art saying "you people always make them gay!!" and every single time I use a photo of me and my girlfriend they call me a closeted bisexual 😂 they're just mad that I'm comfortable enough in my masculinity that I can enjoy two dudes kissing normally
epic straight energy my friend, so glad to have you here in fandom. We need people who are comfortable with queerness more than ever :)
They can't fathom your overwhelming security in yourself, and it is a deight to know of ^^
Absolutely epic man!
You're doing Glod's work.
Fr Im a gay guy and some of my favorite ships are lesbian I don't understand why they can't just chill ☠️
Second rule of fandom: SHIP AND LET SHIP
That's what I been saying for years
Wait what's the first one im afraid to ask
@@MK-zl1kc The Three Laws of Fandom are:
1. Don’t Like, Don’t Read
2. Ship And Let Ship
3. Your Kink Is Not My Kink (And That’s Okay)
@@Dreigonix4. Be a f...... Decent person. ❤🦐
Ship and let ship should be an exception if the ship has incest/pedophalia but even then its only bad if they post about it.
if gay shipping will destroy society, im now moving to the internet and gay ship the shit out of every male character i come across, because our current society sucks
Yah, i feal u.
🦐🦐🦐
i love your idea..
Now this.. this is something i can get behind :)
I shipped them but I started shipping them more when my mom walked in when they were talking and goes “ are they dating ?”
Your mom know the real stuf. 🦐❤️🦐
same but is was my brother who walked in and said 'are they about to kiss or something?' lmao!
I need tgst type of interaction with my parents frfr
My dad (49) was convinced they were together until he saw the mel scene, then he was confused why viktor was interwoven in it
lmfao this was my mom when we started watching Bungo stray dogs
One of the best things for a guy's mental health is to stop worrying about if anything he does seems gay.
Let yourself be tender or soft around your boys. Or you'll never be happy.
Underated comment
@@thrownstair So true.
This, but with everything. “Cringe, beta, gay, etc” it doesn’t matter, it’s all really just human. And usually the best parts of being human too.
Imagine if queer people lived in fear that anything they do can be interpreted as strait
No fr!! The majority of my straight male friends straight up make jokes about kissing the homies and I never doubt their sexuality
these people say that "oh, two bros or two gal pals can't just be friends without being gay" but then they're also the same people who ship a girl and a guy even if they're meant to just be friends??
Make them girls, MAKE THEM GAY. ❤❤❤
It’s worse if the girl and guy are not even friends, such as Gojohime. I am not saying you can’t ship them, just that it is odd to like one and yet endorse one where the woman hates the guy.
@Mialikesthings Gojohime is proof that people will ship a guy with a girl so long as she breathes within a 15km radius from him 💀💀 but we’re the ones forcing it when it comes to Gojo and Geto even though they share WAYY more screen time together and have a far more nuanced dynamic
@graceheo849 gojo/geto is great. But let's not degrade the enemies to lovers fans either. (Unless they are homophobes. Then go ahead.)
I mean I'm a Shoko x Utahime truther, but don't mind the guys that wrongly ship Gojo and Utahime.@Mialikesthings
*I don't give a fuck, I'll ship whatever I want. That's the freedom of shipping!* BTW, people were shipping JayVik long before Arcane happened.
Îl ship u wich myself. 🦐🦐🦐
True, the vikjayce shippers have been shipping them for 9+ yrs now. Arcane just made the lore mainstream. Now that I'm delving nore inti league lore, most of these fans don't even read the lore of their fave characters, but still have the audacity to suddenly care about lore of the characters the moment they heard these two characters are being shipped. Tbh, I love how wholesome the interaction between the JayVik (arcane) and VikJay (league) shippers. If there's anyone in a fandom I can count on remembering the stories and details about characters, it's the shippers.
i don’t play league or watch arcane but i think it’s funny how it seems like people are forgetting that these characters existed before arcane. like people have been shipping this stuff for ages
"Why can't they just be friends?" and yet they won't even let them be friends because they're so neck deep in the toxic masculinity mindset that any form of platonic affection or vulnerability comes off as gay to them.
Sad shrip noises. 🦐
Mao Mao pfp spotted!
This is why I hate feminists
Maybe because everytime it gets portrayed in some media, it get shipped as so.
@@Vector12345tthat goes with anything. F/M, M/M, F/F, etc. If there's a dynamic, people want to explore that dynamic, platonic or otherwise. It's practically inevitable.
It's happens way more with F/M relationships I'd say. All it takes is one interaction.
I think it’s worth acknowledging you don’t see a ton of women up in arms about “Just let women be friends”
true
You're more likely to see that from people fed up with a pair of female characters who have a contrived conflict over the affection of the male mc in canon. It's a complaint we give to the original media writers, not the shippers that generally build a friendship between them so they can also kiss.
I still felt this video was back and forth with its Canon it's not type of thing but still had fun 🤷♀️
Yet if Viktor or Jayce were a women, they'd say it's OBVIOUSLY a romantic relationship.
Yah, sad shrimp noises.
🦐🦐🦐
They did that with Sky and Viktor 😭 (I love Sky, but one can admit that Viktor did not love her romantically)
@ He def was not interested at all in her.
@Mialikesthings Exactly!! What was that one dude talking about "God Spice"?! 🤣🤣 That was NOT happening. Girl even said it herself that he didn't like her back
@Mialikesthings the funniest thing about this is the writers confirmed Viktor tried to recreate his relationship with Jayce through Sky when he was in his cult leader era
Even when you could argue Viktor has gotten closer to Sky, it actually was about Jayce all along lmao
These dudebros keep saying the shippers can't stop making everything gay like they themselves wouldn't call a real life man gay for daring to be the littlest bit vulnerable in front of another man
Some the rest of them are Gay on the inside.❤️🦐
It’s probably because they actually like the characters and they can only conceive of gay people as being something to be mocked and shamed, so therefore if Jayce and Viktor have a well written close relationship, and arcane is a good show that they enjoy, then it can’t possibly be gay. Bigots use this kind of logic all the time, (not to imply that anyone who doesn’t ship Jayvik is a bigot) if they don’t like something then it’s woke and gay and cringey, but if they do like something then it isn’t gay at all and the only cringey thing is the people saying it’s queer in the first place.
That's an argument that has always REEKED of homophobia to me. "People should put more respect on platonic male friendships because whenever I try to be physically or emotionally intimate with my friend people think we're gay". I'm always like "...Why? Why do you care? Why is it such a genuine horror to you that people assume your gay? You can just TELL them you're not, that he's just your friend. And if they don't believe it, that's on them!" Especially since boys and girls deal with this their whole lives. All it takes for most people is putting a boy and a girl of roughly the same age in the same room and have them breathe the same air. People will instantly go "OMG WHAT IF THEY KISSED?!😍" I don't see them crying out to stop shipping boys and girls together in media even if they don't end up together.
Pretty much. The entire conversation should have evolved into this exact comments thread decades ago. Instead I'm getting flashbacks to homophobic fandoms from 1999 CE.
Granted I'll say have some sympathy for them since they're victims of patriarchy just as much as everyone. it's a mindset that gets beaten into some men that vulnerability is somehow "unmanly" and that a man is never allowed to show any emotional vulnerability to anyone with the one exception being that he can be vulnerable around a women that he is regularly having sex with.
And even then those same women can hold their vulnerability against them so it's better for them to just never ever ever ever be vulnerable ever.
I actually burst out laughing at the Sasuke and Naruto kissing one. Does this dude even know what he's talking about? I WAS THERE, GANDFALF, I WAS THERE 3000 YEARS AGO and SasuNaru was KING.
Ive never seen Naruto and have no idea what it's about, but I know this ship! I absolutely lost it hearing that!
The original brairoot.
❤🦐❤️
@@mosasaurusrex1815they like Kiss 2 or 3 Times in the show.
Is cute❤
@@baddragon7057 am I gonna have to go become a Naruto fan now????👀👀👀
Yeah, never watched Naruto, but I’m well aware that there are TONS of gay ships in the fandom
Aren't relationships supposed to be built on a bond of mutual respect, understanding, and love for each other, like a friendship? I genuinely don't get their logic. I ship a lot of best friends because they have the chemistry there already, and guess what? There are best friends that I don't ship that people do. Do I cry and say they're ruining what I love? No, because the original material is there, and nothing changes. This is homophobia at its finest.
Like.
Normal relationship > clouse relationship > romantic relationship > Raw Dogging.
❤️🦐
That's just it. Those guys don't think romantic relationships should have mutual respect, understanding, or even genuine love. Love is just transactional to them. They literally can't grasp the concept no thanks to their misogyny.
My first understanding of romantic relationships, way back when my age was a single digit, was basically friendship with kissing. A best friend you want to kiss. Thats how i first understood love. So im not sure how anyone could think you cant be friends with your romantic partner. Or romantic with your friend. If you cant hang out and be close without it being just sexual, youre not in love.
@@NekoChanSenpai Louder for the peeps in the back
If someone would ship me, I would block this person and tell them to leave me alone.
I don’t appreciate real life shipping bc it’s ultra creepy.
the dude-bros going "but they're not canon" as if that is a valid argument to discourage shippers when people have shipped characters from different franchises that have no chance of ever meeting
also the "homosexual culture of the west" while danmei/BL are such huge genres, especifically in east asian fandoms is insane. someone bring the dude-bros to a doujinshi convention
BL is so big Thailand was finally like, I guess we can make same-sex marriage legal now.
they might faint and die at knowing that gay people are all over the world and not concentrated in one region
@@aishayay "N-no, it can't be! The Alphabet Gang's ruined the whole world 😩🔫"
"Not being canon" is especially not a valid argument when Crossovers are a fanfiction staple especially in the Anime/Manga sphere. Just the number of InuYasha and Yu Yu Hakisho crossovers where Kagome is paired with one of the boys from YYH.
They adhere to canon so badly because they cannot tolerate headcanons or creative interpretation. Fash behavior.
I have a straight guy friend who, in fact, does not like many gay ships. He does want to really appreciate purely platonic guy bonds. The difference is, he can actually understand and respect other peoples opinions and see why they would think something is gay!!!!! Love that guy !!!! Be like that guy
if viktor or jayce was a woman then there wouldnt be people complaining if people ship them- u JUST SAID IT WHILE I WAS TYPIJG HAHDHAHBD
Easy, make bouth people girls.
Problema solved😊🦐❤️
@@baddragon7057 yessss yuri-fy them
Real
Lmaoo perfect timing
@@WilltheSnakeDudethere is a surprisingly amount of F/F versions of other ships and that is a phenomenon that deserves being studied lol
We ship not because we think they look gay. We ship because since they already have such a strong friendship and bond, it would be even more amazing if they were actually together, it just makes for a better story and we like romance. If you get upset over girs shipping men, you have no life. Live and let live.
Like românce is just the next natural step up. ❤❤❤🦐
That being said, sometimes a character does look gay and that's okay lol (looking at you, rise!leo)
If you call anyone a loser, you are automatically a loser
Plus, most shippers aren't TRULY looking for their ships to be canon. We all most accept that it'll never happen... But anyone who needs canon to ship will honestly not survive the winter~
@@baddragon7057 literally not. Friendships can be just as fulfilling, sometimes more. And I'm not just saying this being annoyed with shippers shipping every male friendship. I'm annoyed with EVERY friendship being shipped. As If romantic connections are somehow superior to friendships.
"Don't make everything gay!!" "Can't two guys be just friends??"
Ok so, first of they're always the same guys that say 'separate fiction from reality'. Besides the same argument could be used for m/f relationships, like why can't we get a guy and a girl be just friends without romance? Whether you see two male characters as friends or lovers - you can't go and disrespect people's perception of a clearly unlabelled relationship between two characters and expect them to respect yours. Also these "Why can't they be just friends!!" Mfs why are you so hurt from people hc them as gay? You ain't gonna die and friends to lovers is adorable.
I'm a majority-platonic guy when it comes to male ships (because shipping = relationship, and not just lemons), and one thing I've learned as a decade-long fandom veteran:
Saying "no" makes this crowd, young and passionate, just double and triple down out of sheer spite. So essentially, just let it be.
lol right? Why are you so concerned how some other random person think about your blorbos inside their head?
A lot of the comments imply, or outright state, that friendship between two men is this sort of ethereal magical bond. Dude, you have a best friend, chill. Other people have best friends too, of all genders. These people think they invented the wheel just because they have a non-sexual connection to another human being of the same sex.
13:24 this right here? this is their issue with gay shipping. If two male characters are portrayed in a romantic or sexual light, they see it as a threat to their friendships in real life. These men are afraid of being seen as gay when hanging out with their best friend, but that is only a problem because they think being gay is gross. Homophobia is the reason they're afraid to be intimate with their bros, but then they point to yaoi shippers as the source of their issues. Guess what, geniuses? If homophobia didn't exist, nobody would give you a hard time for having a bromance. But you're out here trying to fight homophobia with more homophobia.
THIS
SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK
Exactly! It's literally a cycle of homophobia that needs to be broken but men have been in that cycle for so long, that's all they know. They can't see that they're own inner circle is/could be the problem.
Exactly
7:58 is genuinely bizarre because that whole explanation just sounds like someone explaining WHY they ship it. do they think people ship things for absolutely no reason and don't have these deep thoughts about the ships?? that little speech just made ME want to ship them and i've never even watched the show.
Fore some people, shiping is just hard.
We need to make them see the colors of love. ❤❤❤🦐
introduce them to crossover ships and rarepairs they would crumble at the spot
@@tofu.yummmmmmgod forbid they find out about crackships 💀
I sorta relate to it because I feel like in a lot of stories romantic relationships *can* feel contrived and make a dynamic seem more shallow, at the same time that’s my own opinion, and I respect multiple interpretations of any given character.
Though I think some of these people just don’t like queer stuff.
And of course that’s not saying all romantic relationships are more shallow.
@@samkeiser9776 yea tbh that's why i prefer ships that have more of a deep basis, for lack of a better word. like, if they have a profound connection that's unique and fascinating that i can't look away from. i rarely ship stuff if it's shallow just cause it's "cute".
it being wrong or problematic has never stopped plenty of shippers.
they get annoyed at us for interpreting things in a sapphic way. meanwhile there's literal thousands of years of het media, plays and books if you want to stick to that sort of thing.
Ship = happy chemicals
🦐
Only het ships in those media are not main theme.
GI Joe has the best love stories, but the main theme is military.
Justice League - superheroes save ppl.
@@ScarlettShana There is plenty of het romance too. But I don't really get how this contradicts what OP said?
@@ScarlettShana In which version of reality are you on?? Het romance-focused content is extremely prevalent and could be found with a single search. In our case, it's minor gay representation and relationships in other genres that are rare. Het relationships are so normalized that even genres that aren't romance, there are still an abundance of them
@@ambysta7602 this isn’t about het. This is about shipping
The Sam/Frodo comment had me reeling because not only is it one of the og gay ships of fandom, but it was so prevalent to the point that Sir Ian Mckelin made sure that Sam held Frodo’s hand in a certain scene because he KNEW fans would be looking for it. He wanted to make sure fans who had seen something romantic between those two characters would be seen. Heck, even the general public have but commenting on it for decades (in a pretty reductive “isn’t it funny how GAY these guys are?” but still).
You don't have to like shipping. But if you don't, why do you interact with shipping content.?Why leave a goddamn comment?
People need to mind their own businesses.
You don't even have to interact with ships you don't like if you like some but not all shipping content. You don't see me sending hate to people who ship straight pairings.
If i left a bitchy comment on every bad fandom take i saw i’d give myself clinical depression
THIS! Like, why are they even there??
see, that's the thing... they care just as much about shipping as the shippers. but they don't even have a thing they like that they're going for, they're literally just here for the ship wars, aka the worst part of shipping culture, without reaping the benefits (looking at how much drawn/written porn the fans produce). they seek the bad part and leave the fun part on the cutting room floor. saddest shit I've ever seen.
Jayvik is Sonadow all over again fr.
No think about it. Every person against it goes "all they do is fight" when all you have to do is watch Sonic Prime. Those writers knew EXACTLY what they were doing.
"Sonic isn't someone who would get into a relationship" while that can be argued as true, Sonic is someone who craves adventure. I can easily see him spinning being in a relationship as being in a new adventure. (Also, in Sonic Frontiers he outright goes "Amy...I should've made up my mind sooner". Meaning he isn't totally against the idea)
🦐🦐🦐
@@baddragon7057OMG i love seafood
God, the whole idea of getting mad at another ship is so alien to me now. I’m Sonaze till I die, but I have nothing AGAINST Sonadow even if it’s not my ship… The only times I’ve ever developed a distaste for ships is when that ship’s fandom has attacked _my_ ship unprovoked, like with Toriel/Sans, and even then, I don’t hate the ship itself.
L×light,ygo maleshipping, superhero shipping ,rivals shipping(not the ygo one) ,legit they want any male dynamic with the male characters to be completely 100% platonic or even antagonistic and make their dynamic from healthy to be awful
@@DreigonixSonaze gives me black cat x golden retriever vibes and it's a great ship cause of it
I never understood why ppl are mad when fans are shipping FICTIONAL characters! Characters who simply do not exist beyond the Show/Game.. Like chill bro they're not shipping you and your brother
@@Ratie36 they feal exclude.
🦐🦐🦐
Yeah. One thing is fiction. It's all drawings, or actors in a story. Real life though obviously don't do that.
From a psychological perspective, it is because the subconscious mind cannot tell the difference between Fiction and Real. So, the Image within the Subconscious mind is attached to Emotion and Desire. Thus, shipping and anti-shipping wars.
@@Fragmentsinfractals488 interesting fact, thanks for sharing
It’s bc they’re tired.
I have experience with HP and Avatar. I didn’t like them bc of fandoms. They were pushing ships.
I think Coley has a SERIOUSLY good point about the perspective of friendship as foundation, and the haters perceiving romance as something totally different, that could never naturally grow out of a friendship, because there's some internalized shame about s-xuality being 'nasty' or 'degrading' in some way... And because they see other men as equals, they don't think it's right to degrade them like that! Women, on the other hand, were MADE for that... So they were told...
Ugh. I feel really sad for their future partners, man, cuz they'll treat THEM as lesser, if they can't imagine being friends! And that'll just contribute to this cycle of holding 'normalcy' as far apart from 'gay' as two different planets :(
I'll add this to the list of dudebro psycho analysis:
1. Imprints friendships onto male characters, so when see gay ship suddenly feel gay and its "degrading", aka Gay is an insult. Complains about shippers making "straight characters gay" but will impulsively call other men gay if they breathe wrong.
2. If het ship is platonic then woman is "independent and dominant" cos not claimed by man, aka dudebro suddenly feel gay and feels need to humble fictional female character cos ego fragile. Muh misogyny UwU
3. Romantic relationship is sexual degradation of woman, so if gay relationship then man being degraded. Dudebro feel gay, must react with homophobia 😂
"I think Coley has a SERIOUSLY good point about the perspective of friendship as foundation, and the haters perceiving romance as something totally different"
Yes! I keep getting surprised that that's not how everyone thinks. Personally, I've always believed your romantic partner should also be your best friend. Like Coley said, it's *the* foundation to build upon. That doesn't mean a romantic relationship should start with an already developed friendship, but it should at least equally develop as a friendship as well.
I have come across many ships that I dont ship and even if I see their fanarts, fics, smut, etc.. i still wont ship it. So if seeeing the romantic ship ruins their view of the pair as platonic and cant stop thinking about them as romantic, then who is the real shipper here?
@@koala9898 me x shrimp.
🦐❤️🦐❤️
Ooooo you got a point there hadn't thought about that XDD
Seriously, nice thinking!
Even worse, sometimes they engage more im the shipping than the fans.
at this point they're just fans in denial
'you've gotta be pretty obsessed with gay stuff if you think viktor and jayce are together romantically'. Yeah man. You caught me. Guilty as charged!
Finally, dudebros suck; don’t they know we carry the fandom and keep the franchise alive 💀
They don know shrimp...
🦐
they dont know history.. if in their fandoms no shipper existed that franchise is dead
REAL!! I’ve been saying this shit for so long. Whether they like it or not, shippers are one of the MANY backbones of fandoms/communities. And there will never be one without it¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Fujoshis are basically the backbone of any fandom lmao, I remember guys being excited that there were more mlm ships in the kagurabachi fandom
Ah..good ol’ fragile masculinity!
Also, side note and probably SLIGHTLY off topic, but part of me would lowkey kill to see a romance between two dudebros or frat bros or whatever the hell.
Like have it be about two of em overcoming internalized homophobia and fear that they’re lesser then for liking men, I’d fuckin’ love to see that
🦐🦐🦐
OH MY GOD THATS THE PERFECT IDEA FOR MY OC I LOVE YOUUU
@BluelStar Glad to be of inspiration!
I introduce to you
✨💙Danvis💚✨
Isn't that Maxly?
I would bet that a huge percentage of these guys are part of the "men and women can't be just friends" faction and I'm elated they're getting somewhat of a taste of their own medicin now 😂
I think a big misunderstanding a lot of outsiders have about shipping is that they think shipping two characters mean that you believe those characters are or should be canonically together. To me shipping isn't that I think the source text is trying to convey a relationship, just that I would be interested in a story about that relationship. Like I don't think Naruto and Sasuke should have gotten married in the end because they were canonically in love, but I would enjoy a different story where everything is mostly the same except they are in love. Like shipping isn't like a conspiracy theory where you try to read into a romantic relationship where there isn't one, it's more like using a non romantic relationship between two characters as a jumping off point to imagine a romantic relationship with similar dinamics.
yeah, you just think two characters in a relationship because you think it's just neat.
exactly this. nail on the head. and like... even if I would've loved to see a gay relationship be canonical, the reality typically is that the setup would've had to start way earlier, and canon already passed up a ton of golden opportunities to deepen the bond, so too much repair work would have to be done to canon to make it a good idea anyway. most of the time, it's too late... even for relationships that were queer coded on purpose but not allowed to be any more explicit, and especially for relationships that were set up intentionally as queer bait. so the vast majority of shipping is just imagining the story if it were better equipped to give a romance to the pair in question.
They probably get that perception from the loud minority of toxic shippers who do insist that their ship is canon or should be endgame; the ones who engage in the infamous ship wars and harassment campaigns and turn to hating the franchise on a dime once the story ends without their ship being explicitly confirmed in canon. Outrage is always going to farm the most attention, so it makes sense a lot of people on the outside would end up missing the forest for the trees and think all shippers must be like that even when most of the ppl who engage in shipping are reasonable and chill.
5:18 "A lot of these dudebros just hate the idea of women-"
Yeah like these guys really dislike women for a bunch of "straight men." You think other dudes are inherently superior to women? Idk.... sounds kinda gay
Nahhh 💀
7:59 Bruh people ship jayvik BECAUSE of this aspect of their relationship. So wtf are they on about
They cute. 🦐
@@baddragon7057 what does the shrimp mean?
@@user-wh5fj6pj6m i like shrimps.🦐❤️
DON’T GET ME STARTED ON THE SAPPHIC SHIPS-
Edit: Btw maybe make a video about the “dark UA-camr ego” phenomenon that happened a few years back.
This. I got the notification for this video while I was reading SuperCorp fics.
@@redballoon9007 🤔
_Me watching the Genshin playerbase go to war every time a new region and its own lesbian pair is released_
They're always just GAL PALS to some people 😭
@@gevgnek Except Natlan where there's barely any ship war
I agree with them… for Guy/Girl Friendships. We are starving over here. I wish more people would appreciate platonic guy/girl ships (while not being in a group of 3+ people) But aye, who am I to deny people from having fun shipping.
Upvote this until it reaches space
My best friend loves M/F platonic bromance so M/F BFFs getting shipped icks him just as much as when M/M BFFs or F/F BFFs get shipped. Bro has like 60 stories he is developing and ~45/60 of the MC in his stories have opposite gender BFFs. J and C (J also has other male and female Besties). T and Captain. H and M. D and F (F is D's forever bestie. Though I do ship them even though I like the other love interest Y. I just want F giving D's sister a "and this is why you suck" at their wedding to be canon as a dig at his sister's "she couldn't take care of you" line from when she tried to break up D and F's friendship when they were 9.) L and S. B and S (B's other female BFF, C, is his fiancee)
people who complain about gay ships existing and how "we can't have male characters just be friends anymore" are the weakest link.
Ship them ❤
@@baddragon7057 the ultimate weapon
I once saw a Twitter discussion about whether it's okay to ship Frodo and Sam together. This one guy said that you should report gay Tolkien fanfictions and harass the authors, to which the other person said that you should just leave fans alone, to which the first person replied, saying simething like, "Well,That's just like Eru and Morgoth. We can't let evil prevail, we should intervene." This wasn't even a small thread, it was a whole discussion. The fans are the reason why I could never bring myself to read Lord of the Rings. I do find the idea of Morgoth and Sauron being evil , not because they want to enslave the world but because they are FrodoXSam shippers, incredibly funny though xD
Omg I've never had this kind of experience in the LOTR fandom. Everyone I know in that fandom thinks SamFro is canon. That twitter discussion is so horrifying but I promise it's not the norm. Also Sam and Frodo kiss a LOT in the books. They're so worth it🥺
Like what, and how, and way?
🦐🦐🦐
Oh that dude's gonna be very angy when he finds out about Morgoth x Sauron 👀☕️
The fanarts are ✨💎🔥GORGEOUS🔥💎✨
noooo please don't let those toxic ppl stop you from reading lotr :( it is truly such a beautiful series with a wonderful fandom, as long as u stay away from the insane side !! on tumblr especially, it's v chill n shipper-friendly
@@Sly-Moose REAL omg. angbang forever
7:34 brother what? Women literally have a sisterhood that's built on DECADES and CENTURIES of having to do what we can to keep ourselves, each other and kids safe FROM MEN. Like all their talk about being protectors is just against other men, they clearly haven't looked at themselves in the mirror 😂
Being aroace myself, it was really upsetting when CL essentially pulled the ace card and weaponised it on Viktor: a disabled, chronically ill guy. He was definitely using the ace label to save himself and make himself not look homophobic like how JK Rowling said Dumbledore was gay to make herself look less homophobic (and transphobic ofc). It also gave the connotation of “this guy has got a lot more going on his life to be thinking about banging people, especially not Jayce” when that is really shallow one dimensional writing to me and kinda ableist. Let disabled characters be in different kinds of relationships instead of just friendships or isolated!
Not only that but the ace card wasn’t even played right if the goal was to stop the ship! You can be ace and still be very involved in a romantic relationship, which is what JayVik is at the end of the day because sexual love and romantic love are two different forms of affection.
Lastly, it would’ve been so boring and stereotypical if the Czech/Russian man turned cyborg called The Machine Herald who is trying to get rid of emotions (his own and others) was asexual. That’s so bland and hurtful to the community…
I don’t mind if people only see Jayce and Viktor as friends or brothers, but when they do it just to put down the fans who see them romantically and spout homophobic nonsense that’s when I say “you know what? I’m gonna ship them even harder now to spite you!”
No actually I feel this so hard, CL’s tweet was stupid on so many levels.
Not only is there very blatant romantic subtext between Jayce & Viktor in season 2, Viktor being Asexual, (Although his comment implied that he meant AroAce) doesn’t even negate that interpretation either?
Like don’t get me wrong, I too was really excited about Viktor being AroAce, as I adored Jayce & Viktor’s friendship in S1. my biggest headcanon is bi Jayce & AroAce Viktor in a qpr, (I love bi-ace solidarity) but with the way season 2 was written in the 1st place, Viktor being ace in any capacity doesn’t feel right at all from both a thematic, narrative, and subtextual standpoint.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to brain vomit everywhere, jayvik’s dynamic is really interesting to me, and as an AroAce that loves picking apart and analyzing both platonic & romantic subtext, CL makes me mad XD one day I’m going to make an Arcane video essay because I have a bone to pick with the writers lmao.
Idea for a short: when the writer canonizes your favorite ship just to sink it the next episode
😢, so real.
@@notproductiveproductions3504 Why yes, I am still beyond pissed at the ending of Bayonetta 3-
This actually happened with a ship in the show im watching. Thankfulky the ship sailed again after their breakup
@@Dreigonix oof, poor Bayonetta.
Good Omens had both in the same episode lol
I remember hearing about a yugio comment in a drawfee video that said something like:
“They aren’t gay, they were just inscribed on the same tablet” ( or something like that I’ve never watched yugio )
This video will remind me of it forever
Love ther humor 🎉😂
i saw that and laughed so much..
Drawfee mentioned! (horn emoji) They've been a really good influence on me, they're all so comfortable with queerness and treat it light-heartedly and good-naturedly like it's totally normal, and I wish more of our society was like them :)
“They ruined my male fantasy bromance dream journal!”
Not even a minute in and this is already peak comedy
Perhaps the other thing here is that "dudebros" don't see the friendship to lovers pipeline, because to them "friendship" equals friendszoned. They see "friend" as an obstacle to "lover" whereas we see friend as a potential ladder up to lover. To them, love is transactional. 💀 It's also why those same people say "men and women can't "just be friends""
Surely it's not because they realise friendship requires mutual respect... right? Hmmm 🤔
Is sex.
They think?
🦐
I love, love, love this comment
This comment clocked I fear💀..
The absolute eatery of it all. You ATE.
No, i would say its investment on the character's identity, you have them as dudes who, for instance with sam of lord of the rings, has a whole ass wife, and then suddenly he is bi with frodo? Its weird as you already have an idea of the character and being queer is not in it, but that also doesn't mean it's harmful, it's just weird but doesn't requires most of these comments
Why do people keep forgetting that shipping is a thing 😭 like ofc people ship these two characters with good chemistry, that's in every fandom (and I encourage it 😼)
This person and this person make my brain chemicals react good, SHIP IT.
🦐🦐🦐
Bro I stumbled upon a Wangxian reel where I legit saw a comment saying that Wangxian isn't gay and to stop shipping them. Like what?? They are so fxcking gay that they do it every day! Like, did you miss the entire plot of Mo dao Zu shi?
My guess is that they only watched the Untamed and didn't realize that it was a queer show because of the heavy Chinese censorship. Despite the palpable tension in the show, they'd still not understand the sheer fruitiness of it all.
The funniest thing is that they are canonically a couple, people are annoying about non-canon and canon gay couples😂...😭
I’ve seen people say Shidou from Blue Lock isn’t gay 🙂↔️ They watch with their eyes and ears closed
I like Wangxian because they are both besties and a couple. They treat each other as equals and don't have weird power dynamics between them that turn me off other BL/Yaoi pairings
@@clarehidalgo omg my thoughts exactly. Literal soulmates.
LOL about the Sam and Frodo bit - I am 69 and when I was in college 50 years ago, I took a Tolkein class. We definitely talked about Sam and Frodo together - Baby's First Slash pairing!
I read the trilogy once for fun because I enjoyed the movies, and I shipped them lol
They’ll say we’re shipping men who are just friends yet ship male and female characters like SpongeBob and sandy who are just friends
Dudebros are the worst.
Nah, just ship them.😂
They are the fun police of fandoms 🙄
@@moona3206 tell me about it 😒
@@baddragon7057hell yeah dudebro to lovers au would go HARD
@@MK-zl1kc ykr! ❤️🦐❤️🦐❤️🦐
i didn't even ship jayvik b4 but seeing insecure men hate on them made me ship them out of spite
Ngl, the weirdest thing with this whole situation is when they actively go through jayvik vids/discussions just bash it in the comments/replies. It's making me confused like... bro, you're about to see more of this content if you interact with it more. It's also a bit funny they always bring up that one of the creators consider them brothers (same person who when asked by a lore enthusiast of the league commmunity, can't answer or don't know the details happening in his own show), but completely ignore other creators of the show who's like chill with it or even ships it. (Even admitted to having fics among themselves). One of the writers even admited that they may have made their ending accidentally romantic when looking back at it again, but said people can interpret what happens next whatever they want.
I truly believe that the creator, writer, and animators of Arcane are telling their own story. The whole production doesn't have an unified answer/stance about something.
I truly can't stand the idea that interpreting male friendships in media as gay somehow robs straight men of friendship representation.
first of all, if you want to be close friends with the men in your life, do that. do it in whatever way you choose. real life is calling, and for as much as you love to tell shippers to go touch grass, you seem awfully invested in the idea that fictional media must spoon feed you all of your male/male friendship dynamics, rather than you being expected to go out into the world and forge your own. something about glass houses and throwing stones is tickling my brain here.
alternatively, maybe we do agree about the importance of representation in media. it does make you feel seen, and validate your experiences, doesn't it? well, guess which demographic has had historically little sanctioned canonical representation in media. that's right folks, it's the gays. people get sick of hearing about it all the time online, _because_ every inch of representation that's ever clawed it's way into the mainstream had to fight to get there. that's why the conversation around queerbaiting exists. at first, if a writer wanted to get something gay into a mainstream piece of media, they'd have to hide it with queer coding... aka, little hints that they knew gay people would notice, but that would fly under the censorship radar. later on, when the presence of queer coded characters proved to be a point of major popularity, a lot of media decided to ape the optics of that, and we got queerbaiting. aka, hinting at a gay relationship, and all but promising that it could happen someday, without ever having any intention of pulling the trigger for real.
so, in other words... male friendship is the default canonical status of even the most queer hinted relationships that exists on television. and this is true for just about every potentially gay pair that gets popularly shipped in media, going all the way back to Kirk and Spock. the volume of ships where dudebros will call the gay interpretation delusional actually proves this. how many of those got to be canon? practically none, despite the amount of justification the viewership clearly noticed. they've never just given us gay shit. you've always won that battle. what the fuck are you whining about?
and like, I hear you... it is important to give examples in media, of strong, close, non-toxic male friendships, and masculinity in general. and this also goes for parent/child relationships between males, or healthy male mentors... all of it is very important. but do not act like you've never gotten that before. ultimately, this shouldn't even be a fight. I hate the suffering olympics, we should not be competing over who has suffered more, and one of us getting what we want doesn't have to come at the expense of the other. but my god. when y'all can't even handle people in fan spaces creating strictly non-canonical fan works of the characters, it makes you guys seem like absolute babies. literally, fan works are where this starved demographic DIYs their own representation because it's so sparse, or so anemic after censorship strips it down to a pale facsimile of what it could've been. it costs zero dollars to just steer clear of the things you don't want to see, and stop seeking content that makes you mad.
side note: if the worry is that a ship's popularity will lead fans to try and affect the actual creators of the material, and sway their decisions somehow... just understand that creative control over a project always lies in the hands of its creator. if they decide to fold, that's their prerogative, and their reasons are their own. fans who wanted the gay stuff canonized have had to swallow their disappointment time and time again when it doesn't happen... some with more grace than others, but this isn't new. if you have to do it once, I promise you'll be fine.
do I think this kind of public demand can be taken too far? absolutely... as with anything. if the public fervor is getting to a level where people are threatening the author, or behaving inappropriately for the boundaries of a parasocial relationship, then that needs to stop no matter what kind of demands the fans have on their mind. but that veers more into the realm of fan etiquette, and it applies to everyone in equal measure. you're allowed to share your own opinions, art, writing, theory crafting, etc. but so am I. if I think two characters are gay, I have as much right to examine the canon for that reading, as you have to say that you just don't see it, or just don't like it. we can agree to disagree and part ways. but we are both equally waiting on what the creator will decide to do with their art. you can't put pressure on them to make it what you want either. what cannot be allowed to happen on any level, is genuine disrespect.
These people the moment a guy and a girl in cannon say one word to each other: “oh they’re so into each other”
Also them the moment two guys spend incredibly close moments together: “noo they’re just close friends you’re all delusional!”
Make them girls, MAKE THEM GAY.
🦐🦐🦐
Also, when two women live in a one bedroom apartment for 20 years together: What amazing galpals.
@arielc8584 yes,lovly galpals... Way do i hear mouning? 👀👀👀
men/women: lust
men/men: wrath
women/women: ignorance
Then historians:
A man and woman sitting near to each other in this artwork? They must be married.
A god spending so much time with a handsome prince another god kills the prince out of jealousy? They were great friends.
Ship and let ship gang, assemble 🤜💥🤛
HERE
A lot of those smell of misogyny honestly. They can't see their romantic partners/women as equals, as people with which they could have deep friendships or as something else than a convenient hole. To them a lover is nothing but the smashing.
So when people start shipping characters because of their great chemistry and canon relationship they can't understand because to them those kind of relationships are only possible between friends since they think women don't have enough value for it.
But that's only part of it. There's repressed gays in there, rejecting this like they reject themselves, the brainwashed just mindlessly repeating what they heard somewhere else and self-centered people that think THEIR interpretation is the only valid one. And of course the straight up homophobic crowd.
Your point about how they fail to realize that any male/female friendship would also have the fandom buzzing with curiosity on if they will become lovers but since it's straight then it's ok in their minds. It's so hypocritical of them.
To the dude-bros having a meltdown gate-keeping any fandom, that is for trolls under bridges. Here is a triple fish-slap now let me consume my delicious slash fic in peace like the yaoi gods intended
Shrimpslap.
🦐🦐🦐
These types of ppl that don't like ships are afraid that shippers are gonna ruin a fandom,and make the writers cater to fans and make thier powerful male character "weak" (implies that him being gay will ruin thier idea of the man being strong ),the sentence "don't make this into mha fandom" is thier shield and "shippers ruin everything " is thier sword
Other commenters mentioned but I had to agree: Don’t get me started on sapphic ships.
Like… there’s this and then you get intersectionality of sexism and fetishization from ppl. ATP I’ve just learned that I like multi shipping, and that a lot of fandoms don’t seem to address toxicity lol.
Like for me at the least, I have my ships and stay in a corner. I’m used to ppl bashing my ships for existing so I just go to wlw for comfort as a lesbian 😤
Platonic this, bromance that, I need these dudebros to be introduced to the concept of 🌈queerplatonics🌈
☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️
THANK YOUUUUUUUUUUU
Real. I can’t lie I always perfer seeing a fictional relationship as queerplatonic unless it’s stated that it is romantic.
akshually, *I* ship characters bc they just make my heart go doki-doki and THATS IT it doesnt need to be a deep commentary on mAlE fRieNdsHip (as if there were no representation of good, platonic, male friendships in media)
I am loving how active Coley has been this week.
Please keep feeding us fandom goddess.
More fraed shrimp.
🦐🦐🦐
how dare youtube hide this for 15 seconds from me
3 minutes for me💔💔
12 minutes 😔
47 mins 😭😭
58 minutes 😭😭
only watched the intro and i already know this will be a great video.
Yah 🎉
I suddenly want to write fanfictions about male friends that [redacted]
Make it, Make IT, MAKE IT. ❤
do it
As someone who’s aromantic bisexual, I desperately want to see more friends with benefits rep that doesn’t lead to them falling in love. Gimme people who are buddies that also fuck sometimes and let them stay that way throughout the story!
what's ur user lmao
honestly id be down to see more people do with with experimentation/fyb in mind 👀
It’s the same with wlw pairings and straight woman. “Noooo, you can’t ship those two, they see each other as sisters” (said characters never said anything like that in cannon). “Noooo, they are best friends, don’t erase it” (I think we do need more female friendship representations but my head cannons ain’t erasing anything, chill). “You are delusional!” (and then they ship Charlie and Alastor and no one bets an eye).
If I wrote fanfics, "jayce and viktor exist and do science together" would probably be a tag I'd use all the time, as well as the other things they do in the lab when nobody else is around 😳
Recently entered the DC comics fandom when I was mostly an anime guy beforehand the the amount of hate with shipping just seem so much worse there. At the same time though, when it comes to canon gay pairings for comics i feel that they usually go too safe and unproblematic, thus usually making the characters bland, leading to opportunistic people saying things like "gays don't sell", when its the more usual "bad writing doesn't sell"
They're absolute cowards over at DC. They have so much potential with shit like Lex Luthor having Supe's biological child and then they just pretend that's not the gayest thing they could possibly have written.
@@redchan2571 yah, somtimes u Kant find good gay relationship. 😮💨❤️🦐
Personally, I hate Jason Todd and Roy Harper together. Because I think honestly. A more closer to comic accurate would be Dick Grayson and Roy Harper.
Now conceptually, I think Jason and Roy would make sense, Only in the new 52.
However, I very much dislike the new 52 for what it did to Roy as a character aging him down getting rid of his main feature of being a father or at least A father that lost his daughter (stupid event, I'm glad cry for justice is finally gone)
I prefer pre new 52 and rebirth..
In the '80s
Dick was the one to save Lian. The one who made it possible For Roy To have custody of his own daughter.
(Now granted I do actually , Cheshire and Roy And think a lot of what she did evil was because of misogynistic racism against Asians and (For her nuking A nation that was to make Slade look better)
So pedophilia apologist
Cheshire was sold into slavery at young as 7, poisoned her master by age 10, ran away. Found Asian stereotype mentor that married her off at 16 because they were both poison Masters and the guy was several years older)
Cheshire poisoned her Forced husband at 18 and ran, stumbling into Roy (Who was undercover as a villain at the time)
He ghosted her, And left her pregnant (without him knowing) Because he thought that was safer for her.
That only made her angrier. But give her credit, She was willing to show Roy Harper, her daughter and basically say join me and Will be happy together with our daughter so long as you quit the hero gig
And he turned her down,
And dick being a good buddy to Roy, stole her daughter and severed custody.
The only problem with her is she is vindictive because of past trauma, And she only has a specific set of skills as a master of poison, Because she didn't have any formal education.
Like '80s Cheshire was perfect pitch. It was misogyny and racism against Asian folk that made her hatable by the fandom. But I love her.
Now I also ship,bRoy x Donna x wally x dick x Garth
And or Jericho x dick and Jericho x Raven And dick x Starfire
Basically the Titans are the New York Poly web base
Follow up,
For cyborg, I don't know man. I think Donna is a top And I don't think he's able to deal with her..
I think Dick and Donna are platonic soulmates,
Wally and Linda are truly romantic soulmates
And sorry cartoon 03 Titans fans, But I think Beast boy is Ace in the comics.
Like he is too overly down in the comics I think he's doing a bid to compensate for the fact that he's the youngest Titan in the group, And nobody's touching him because they're decent human people.
I do think Dick and Bette Kane(The daughter of the original batwoman Catherine Kane) The original Robin and BAT-GIRL
Barbara, as she was introduced in the comics was 5 years younger than Bruce, But like 6 years older than Richard
I think Dick and Bette Are like?, They were each other's first time but it was awkward and weird and they didn't continue and this was in secret between
Now on to Justice League. Diana thinks most of them are babies compared to her,
I think Bruce and Clark are good platonically, but I think Bruce is a coward that recognizes going down on or being. The bottom would be pretty fucking dangerous for him and he's too paranoid for that.
Lois isn't, She is a trail seeker full and true
Talia (Top ) ands Selina (switch) and Bruce (bottom)
Honestly, I like Carol and Hal as a couple..
That's all I could think off the top of my head
you know what? I'm gonna watch Jayvik compilations to spite the haters
Homophobia and sexism are like that epic handshake meme, I always see them happening together. Whenever someone is homophobic or sexist, they're usually also the other one as well. Fandoms always become toxic when it comes to ships and shipping, it's why I don't like interacting with others in the same fandoms as me anymore.
yes bc they are both hatred of femininity
[I'm alergic to stupid] lmfaooo fr
Makoto??
@WinterDewdrop Yep!! Love the Mizi pfp btw
@@AUCreatoer tyy (^0^)
As a straight dude bro i do think shipping can be weird, but as long as i don't see it or doesn't concerns me, out of sight out of mind really
Very valid take 👍
Ship and let ship! Good job bro, you're doing better than most of your kind
@@catdownthestreet well that doesnt sounds like a compliment? but yeah, I don't think that most of my "kind" really cares, even if most of us don't participate or like shipping dynamics its just easier to ignore them and kind of go on like that, and most of us are like that, I think.
@@catdownthestreet Saying "your kind" is rude and derogatory
It's not your cup of tea and that's valid! We all like different things in life. People are allowed to like or not like it, the important part is to just ignore it and not harass others about it. And that goes both ways. Non-shippers should not harass shippers, and vice versa.
But to be clear, shippers also comprise of people shipping canon ships. So in that sense, you may think it's less weird if people ship Caitlyn and Vi, I assume?
You explained the devaluing straight relationships so well!!! It's not just homophobic, it's built on a foundation of sexism.
Since getting into Sonic and shipping Sonadow, I have seen soooo many dude bros foaming at the mouth to tell us Sonadow shippers how disgusting they find Shadow x Sonic to be. Except not only do you get the “they have a deep bond of friendship and rivalry” you also get the guys who are like “noooooo they hate each other >:( they’re RIVALS! They would MURDER EACHOTHER” as if the constant fighting isn’t like 60% of the appeal for their tension and romance?
Those kind of people have never watch Sonic Prime 😂
True, but if you watch Sonic Takeover, it confirms that Sonic and Shadow don’t hate each other-they just compete. Sonic Prime also proves that their dynamic can work, but fans hate admitting it or just find the ship disturbing. And you're right-rivals-to-lovers is extremely popular, making up about 70% of fandom ships. But the Sonic fandom treats Sonadow as a toxic couple.
thanks for making this video coley, i saw a tiktok the other day that pissed me off about this exact topic, and the comments were full of sexism and homophobia and decided that it was the last straw for the platform and decided to delete the app for my own good. again, thank you so much for uploading this.
I’m just saying if Victor was Victoria these guys would be singing a whole different tune
@@Shark_Soda_030 so true.
❤️🦐
These guys got some work to do.
I’m not into shipping, i prefer platonic relationships since I’m Aro (plenty of Aro people like ships though, don’t put us all together) but I follow artists & read fanfictions with ships because the art or the writing is awesome.
Even if I don’t agree with the view of someone, it’s fun to see everyone interpretations of characters relationships.
Finally an aro like me (I'm aroace)
I think all the comments showed what you explained at the start, there is a fundamental difference between how shippers see shipping/relationships/gay as an extension of friendship and these commenters see it as a replacement. Thats why they're so upset, they don't realize all noses are pointed in the same direction, we just have different glasses on
When you brought up how hating gay male ships is rooted in misogyny... you get it
Omg fr and especially in Shonen anime they are like "all you female fans who ship guys together destroy the whole fandom". Like my dear we keep the fandom awake. Without us your fandom would have gone extinct and also why do you care so much 😭😭😭 if you don't like a ship edit that popped on your fyp just scroll. Let people enjoy what they like
@@irengelic no offense, but you are also usually the ones who embrace the fandom. Let's not forget the fiasco that happened with Deku x Ochako (and I am someone who can't care less about who is Drku dating).
@ And that is also keeping the fandom alive. Toxic discourse is also discourse. If you're looking at it from a pragmatic angle
@@ambysta7602 and yet, you make me and other fans ashamed to admit that they are fans of the series because people would ask: "Isn't that the anime that has crazy fans, who sent death threats to the author for not making their gay ship canon?"
It's the Heavy/Medic discourse in tf2 all over again 😂
Honestly it's pretty sad how up in arms some people get over harmless ideas like shipping two fictional characters.
Sad😢.
🦐
i love the fact that the voice actors kinda ship it lol
@ihappydawnz The voice actors are some of the biggest fans istg
@@Megsiepoo like fr yeah ua-cam.com/video/yJjbv4DKB98/v-deo.html (wonder why this is unlisted... it was too good for the world to see)
@ihappydawnz oml yeah it's such a good video
Hey Coley could you make a video on the classic fandom phenomena where people are super misogynistic towards female characters that "get in the way" of their gay ship (i.e. Mel Medarda). I feel like it's the inverse of this issue.
these people will act like romance (or sex, but not even sex tbh, just romance even) completely destroys any value or wholesomeness of a friendship and that friendship cannot exist in a romantic or sexual relationship
and then wonder why their friendships feel hollow and guarded, and their bedrooms cold empty and dead inside.
god I hate when jayvik antis go out of their way to search up jayvik videos to say "they're brothers, you're toxic" or something. like let people ship what they want smh
Timebomb was right there! Two scientists who work on one project and carry the responsibility of their inventions, spent a lot of time by each others side AND are romantically in love with each other AND their relationship is not sexual. Why is it so hard to imagine if it literally happened in the same show? Ekko and Jayce often parallel each other, so why can't Jayce and Viktor have what Ekko and Powder had(or could've had lol)
I don't like jayvik personally and see them as close friends but i also thought timebomb are just ex friends before 2nd season so i prefer stay open minded
Ekko/Jayce parallels?
@YourSleepParalysisDemon-b2p i may have worded this poorly, but their fates are often compared to eachother. Especially that time when they got in other universes. Ekko got to live a perfect version of his life and Jayce had go go from a lot of pain. And there Ekko meets Powder and Jayce meets Viktor. Both Powder and Viktor helped them to go to their home universe and motivated them to fight in the final battle. I mean Viktor can be to Jayce what Powder is to Ekko
@MK-zl1kc Oh yeah, I get what you're saying. Like how the lyrics of Me Meilluere Enmemie apply to both relationships concerning conflict, friendship, and romance.
Thank you for the explanation
I will always remember that one time in an anime con circa2017.
I had a table at the con with friends, and one of them had Jojo's fanart to sell. Jojo's fandom is fascinating to me in that aspect : you have everyone, from shipping fangirls to gym bros to LGBT's fashion pals.
One dudebro, around 17 yo, spotting the cool Jojo's fanarts immediately called his friends "Look there are JBA drawings !!" They were so excited because it was the first Jojo's merch they saw in the big convention. Mind you, most of my friend's work was not ship art, so they didn't spot the "hand-holding food sharing's ones at first.
"Wait, why [male A] and [maleB] are kissing ??". Snickers, baffled faces, embarrassed comments. "There are bros, wtf ?" "Why would people draw that ?'
My friend's arms were crossed on their chest. They were slowly fanning themselves (it was super hot into the conv), probably nurturing a headache. Just imagine a mafia boss with a strong calm presence you've just annoyed. With a raised eyebrow and the "I have big brother experience" voice : "Really ? Have we read the same manga ?"
Silence. Then one of the boys : "Alright, fair."
Good thing you made a video about this topic I so tired of those type of comments.
One thing that bothers me is people thinking shipping/being in arelationship = sexual content (which I assume for dudebros is the most horrible thing bc omg say gex but not joking), and especially with Viktor being Asexual (by the creators), when even so, asexual doesn't mean aromantic, Viktor can still love Jayce without the need to fuck him with the hexstrap (which is a shame but also he could still do it asexuality is a spectrum)
Out of curiosity I looked at the bad reviews of Castlevania: Nocturne, and every single one I saw complained about 1) Mizrak and Olrox being gay and 2) Richter not being super manly and badass 24/7. Straight men will get so mad when media they think should cater to them does anything else, it's comical
Well flip- That just makes me wanna finish watching the show EVEN MORE! 🤣
Richter is a such cutie pootie, and I love that for him
I mean, I remember some people arguing that Cait and Vi were "just friends" before season 2 came out 🫤
Some people just have a blind spot when it comes to this stuff ig
Some people don’t realize you can be asexual but still want a romantic relationship (personally that’s how I see viktor)
I think I need a fic called Jayce and His Ace.
Absolutely they can!
My husband is somewhere on the ace spectrum we've recently realised, and we've been together almost 15 years with our second kid on the way. He's a terrible romantic! His favourite mug has our wedding pictures all over it, which he made himself.
Being asexual doesn't exclude you from romantic relationships, or even starting a family. He just sees and experiences sex differently to me, and that's ok.
A lot of asexuals themselves do not seem to realize this. I'll see a lot of asexual people go 'you can't ship that character they are asexual!' They clearly have not heard of the concept of platonic shipping.
@@starlydonati2008 PLEASE THAT'S SO FUNNY
@@WoodsideLegacy both of my parents have come to realize that they're on the ace spectrum, probably both demi. All thanks to me coming out as aroace lol
Cant believe you didnt mention TF2 in the beginning
Queer ships will have the most heartbroking, doomed, intimate, understanding and written to meant to be with each other dynamic but ofc some guy goes to say it doesn’t mean anything bc it’s clearly not canon