BLHeli_32 vs BlueJay: I found the best settings for both ESCs but which will perform better?
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- Опубліковано 11 лип 2024
- In this video BLHeli_32 and BlueJay slug it out for the title of best ESC firmware. Thank you to Tyto Robotics and Unmanned Tech for supporting this testing work!
AOS Frames: www.aos-rc.com/
Support me on Patreon so I can spend more time working on FPV: / chris_rosser
Thrust stand: 1585 Tyto Robotics www.tytorobotics.com/pages/se...
ESCs:
Diatone Mamba F55 Pro 128K
UK: www.unmannedtechshop.co.uk/pr...
International: www.banggood.com/custlink/KGv...
Chaos 30A BLHeli_S ESC:
UK: www.unmannedtechshop.co.uk/pr...
International equivalent: www.banggood.com/custlink/vv3... - Наука та технологія
I remember the times when people thought they needed to upgrade to BLHeli_32 to get the best performance. Then JESC came out and shortly later JazzMaverick's BLHeli_S build and now there is BlueJay and I am really thankful for the dedication these developers put into keeping BLHeli_S ESCs awesome. It also shows the power of open source software so don't forget to give something back to the people who saved you money and/or provided you with a better flying quad.
Spot on. Well said Snorkl!
Open source is the future of rapidly evolving, successful software. (and hardware) Testing, evaluating, improving
One of the things I like about your videos is that, all the results are given in a very easy to comprehend and check results page. This is nearly never done by any other youtuber. Great work as always Chris, keep up the good work.
You have to show your working if you want full marks! 😁
@@ChrisRosser Seconded. Especially on the whole ESC-Level the explanations where lacking so much proof. "here is how motor timing works... and how does that relate to your settings? I don't know, I just enter the ones, everyone else puts in. So you should, too!" - finally someone shows what these settings actually do. I bet this test bench and testing was a ton of work. Kudos for doing it so thoroughly on a scientific level you can actually compare and draw conclusions from!
So crazy! I was just searching for BLHeli32 settings videos to set up my new cinewhoop build and realized you posted this today! Thanks for your hard work on all this testing!
Great analysis, Chris; and very practical, as well :-) Thank you!
Extremely good video as always, love it! As an molecular bioanalyst seeing all these graphs and tests is a real joy for me! Suggestion for next video: Could you maybe make lecture video about vtx antennas and radio stuff in general? This is still extremely confusing for me and probably others too.
DAAAAMMMMMMNNNNN....
KISS be like "whaaaaaaaa..."
Always stuck to the 24khz PWM, but going to check out variable now in 32.8.3. Also going to be checking out that sweet 16-deg timing!
VERY nice work Chris!!
Thanks Mark! Do you think it's worth testing a KISS / FetTec ESC? I could find the best settings and put it up against BL32 and BlueJ!
@@ChrisRosser I would LOVE to see that, we need to put as much hard data in front of the cult of KISS members as we can to try and save them from all the time/money they're wasting
@@CiottiFPV we need to team up. Seriously. But its about "the feel" Ciotti! Until I show them how Fettec and ULTRA don't look like legacy KISS and are looking more and more like BF! 😲
@@uavtech Dude I'm down %1000, I was SO "HYPE" when I built a KISS rig a few years back and then it just did everything worse than BF and had no support. I feel so bad for everybody that falls for it like I did and wastes so much time/money
@@CiottiFPV started with KISS five years ago. Recently put a KISS FC back into a freestyle frame just for fun and saw a night and day difference in how laggy it was compared to BF. Immediately put the BF FC back into it shortly afterwards.
Did get a FETTEC G4 and an Ultra FC to try out, and again just to see for myself if the "hype" is really up to what it is. Long story short it probably will be just "meh, it flies but that's about it..."
YESS! I love these videos Chris! Thank you buddy.
You are very welcome!
Thank you so much for this info, setting up right now.
Awesome works Chris 💪
Lovely data. Thank you!
learned alot from this very detailed and inspirational video...Thanks chris
Brilliant video Chris, outstanding test. Now you can bench all the different motors haha
Woohoo! Some seriously excellent content here. As a non-racer, on my dynamic freestyle stuff it gets really hard to tell a real performance difference between blheliS, bl32, and am32 if I'm being totally honest going just by feels. But where I do really think it's worth am32 / bl32 with "by rpm" is for cruisers and bigger quads surprisingly enough where lower pwm at lot throttle can make a noticeable difference but perhaps more so the occasional issue where a section of throttle you cruise at is at one of the aliasing points .... could definitely be making it up but it really seems like 32.8.3 and by rpm really mitigates some random oscillation points with certain throttle settings that sometimes are classified as MTO's, but disappear with "by rpm"
Thank you for the updated tests on 2207 more common motor size
And the use of 32.8.3 latest blheli
To really compare latest esc FW head to head
As always great work
It is a bit funny that at the end we are returning to the 50% default ramp up
And 16 deg default timing settings 👀😎✌️💆♂️
That just goes to tell you that the engineers who originally landed on those values as the defaults knew what they were doing. 😁
@@colinmetzger6755 that right
We can fine tune but most of time without since/ logs ti confirm the var we change we can do worth then good
Thank's for the great info and work, it didn't surprise me, because i found that my blheli s (bluejay) esc equiped quads always are a little bit more responsive and less prone to propwash than my 32bit quads. But the trottle resolution is little bit less, i use little bit of trottle expo to handle this. On my 3 inch 1404 motor quad, i reduced the propwash a lot by using 24kHz instead of 48kHz with Bluejay and 15degr timing, but it reduces a bit of top end
Love these videos, find the best settings and then set and forget on every quad.
Yep, that's the goal. Perhaps even get BlueJay devs to make 15deg the default? Then no need to even set!
awesome work thanks!
Very interesting, thank you !
Fantastic! Thanks for that. You actually save us a lot $$$
These tests are fantastic! I don't currently fly above 3" but I'm deep into whoops and would be very curious what the results look like at that format/ motor size since the difference between 24, 48, 96 pwm seems to have much more dramatic effects. Motor timing as well. While I'm at it with the unsolicited suggestions, I also dare you to design a whoop frame 😅
Great video!!
Well done ... thanks Chris and thanks Bluejay!
Thank you!
Let the battle of the ESCs begin!
Great video, thx!
Thank you for this scientific approach.
Wow did not expect that. Good job to bluejay devs for making a great esc firmware with no fee. Open source is the winner.
Me neither. That's why I love these tests!
Great video Chris! Thank you for doing these tests. Would these settings, mainly timing, be the same for smaller motors like 1204?
This saved me a ton of time on future testing I was originally planning to do. Thanks for the work. How did you sync the spin up times to compensate for the variable USB timing latency when triggering the spin up vs the ESCs getting the command, or did you just repeat the tests and average?
Lots of repeats and average. There is some variability but it's not too bad because the thrust stand handles both ESC commands and data collection so USB latency is less of an issue.
Don't leave your job to others, make your tests, maybe you get different findings. Because that we progress
Thank you Chris! Great analysis.
Can I assume that these settings would be just as reliable and efficient on smaller motors as well?
Cheers 🥂
smaller motors benefit from higher PWMs afaik. more efficient for little to no loss in torque.
@@aakashjana6225 But will that not have a repercussion on the stopping response, as per Chris’ tests have shown?
I love data informed decisions. Thanks for giving us data that we couldn't create ourselves. I'm also a fan of open source software being tied with top tier closed source. Thanks to the BL Heli S and Bluejay devs.
Thanks I'm happy you enjoyed it!
I just switched to Bluejay 16.0 running at PWM 96K from JMaverick 16.73 running at 48K. Made my 4 year-old, 100mm, 2S whoop fly like a totally new machine - and I get a full _50 seconds_ more flight time! Definitely a must-have if you run BLHeli_S.
This was great video. Can we see more budget motor comparison with that machine you have? Like xings vs eco vs velox.
How does this carry over to smaller motor configurations?
Awesome videos. Thank you!
"Let's get ready to thrust test" is my pickup line! 🤣🤣🤣
I bet it works great "out in the field" 😁
I would love to see you repeat this test with the escs programmed with the other firmware. That would eliminate hardware differences.
Exciting stuff!
My 5c:
- you compared a single ESC (BJ) to a 4-in-1 (BL32) - can we be absolutely sure that a single ESC do not have an advantage over a 4-in-one (e.g. noise and heat dissipation) - IMHO this subject calls for a test/video of its own
- I'd love to see the remaining major contenders i.e. AM32 and JESC also included - in particular BL32 vs AM32 and BJ vs JESC and only after winners in these comparisons have been found, put them against each other - knowing the ultimate winner is good when we are shopping for new gear, but knowing whether BJ is better than JESC or if BL32 is better than AM32 would be helpful with making choices as to the gear we already own
Good Question. I don't think there is a mechanism for a 4in1 to perform worse when it is still only driving 1 motor. In fact it should perfrom better because it has extra caps etc. compared to single ESC.
BLHeli_S on bluejay are awsome, also the startupsounds that´s given there is a nice gimmick.
Let's get ready to rrrrrrrumble! 😁
Awesome! 🙏 Thanks for a colorful and insightful test 👌 Did you notice any significant difference in the working temperature on the esc's with the different settings?
Not at all. Both ESCs stayed relatively cool during my testing.
@@ChrisRosser Cool😎 Thanks :)
Thank you Chris for this great video!👍 There are still two things I am very confused. Tests in your video are using 12N14P Configu-ration Motors. For these 9N12P Motors, Can also use 16 deg Motor timing and 40% rampup power settings to reach the best performs? Second thing I want to know is there possible to set Demag Compensation off to get higher power or motor response?
Nice, I just put a BL heli esc in my fixed wing and it feels like it has more thrust and responsiveness compared to a ztw 30a esc designed for planes.
The FPV scientist Chris knows best!!! very well educated engineer! Not one of those Kiss frat boys that’s brand washed.
Thanks Chris. I've often wondered if the price difference was worth getting bl heli 32.
Glad to help
are those applicable to any motor size/smaller inch drone? like a 2.5? (a noob here trying to learn) my quad keeps on yawing when arming and accelerating if trying to correct
Great video. Chirs - I am using 16kHz and ByRMP, 50% ramp power and 16deg timing. I am also using the Karate 5" 6S preset on BF 4.3 RC3. My motors are hotter than I would like. What would you recommend I try to reduce the temp of the motors? Any tips you can recommend would be greatly appreciated.
Do you think the results would change using different ESCs on respective FW? What about higher pitch prop, wouldn't that affect braking speed? Possibly motors of the same size with different magnets?
Very interesting!.. how would this translate to other, smaller motors? Up to, say.. 0802's?
0802's have a different n-to-p ratio. Larger motors are a 12n14p where as 0802 are a 9n12p so they have a smidge inherently less efficiency.
IDK a shlub like myself would be able to tell the difference - but thank you for doing PROPER analysis.
Hey @Chris Rosser we were recently discussing what the max theoretical RPM is that an ESC can sustain. And whether that number also depends on the switching frequency. The though process was that (we believe) a small motor with 9N12P needs to switch at least 30-ish times per revolution (exact number is unclear to us). That means, with a 48kHz switching frequency it should not be possible to go faster than 1600 rounds per second. Unfortunately that thought process is being contradicted by a 3" quad that we have that provably goes beyond 800 rps on 24kHz. Thoughts on that?
Sure! A 12P motor needs each phase to switch 12 times per rev I think. So that would give 2000 revs per second or 120,000 RPM on 24Khz.
@@ChrisRosser thanks! 🙂
I would really like to see a test like this with the prop in 50 to 100 km/hr airflow, similar to a R/C plane cruising speed.
are theses setting the same for 4s setups ? thanks
Could you project your test results to let's say 1103 motors or even smaller 0802 motors where 48kHz might make a big difference in efficiency?
So I'm guessing ByRPM offers less braking at higher rpm then 16-128 as the PWM is throttle linked there. So then I wonder if a different setting would be better dependent on prop pitch or size. I'm thinking your results might be different on a 7" setup or a very low pitch 5" vs a very high pitch 5".
Hi Chris, will Dshot 1200 make a BLheli_32 ESC perform better than a similar BLheli_S ESC with Bluejay? If so, will the additional performance justify the added cost of switching to BLheli_32?
Does Demag compensation for blheli32 do anything? If so, what would you recommend to set this to?
In my testing demag did nothing. So it's probably not being triggered even in the the acceleration testing
What is the advantage of the dshot control board? The supplyer can t really explain why it can be good for my 1585.
Thank you
Quad flies great using 16deg timing, 16kHz- ByRPM, 50% Ramp-up but the motors are a little too hot. I am running the Karate 5" 6S tune and I tweaked the filters a bit. Any recommends to get cooler motors?
Did you ever fix those hot motors?
I want to know what the ACTUAL difference is , in a fettec or kiss ESC. And a blheli ESC...... That would be a popular video! Awesome results.
Yep, just how good is the Fettecs full sine wave fw vs blheli_32.
@@paulhope3401 Exactly!
KISS ESC bought and on the way.
@@ChrisRosser That is awesome.. Thank you! This will be really interesting.
Are Kiss and Fettec using the exact same full Sine wave tech these days?
@@paulhope3401 I think so. The Fettec ESC I have bought advertises full sine wave control.
Did you think of making guides or schemes to build testing stands as such? This way community could scale this process in the future and test more component variations.
Speaking of your vibration analysis, I would be happy to pay for your model (and guide to apply it), if it’s ever released I’ll grab that 😉
I got my test stand from tyto robotics. Link in the description. It's not something that is easy to DIY.
I guess I wouldn't of guessed that the performance of blheliS would have been so similar to or on par with blheli32.
So question, Im running the BLHeli_32 Settings as in the video, on 4.3 RC2 and I keep Desyncing after 100% throttle what do I change to fix this? The motor Timing
Hi Chris! Wanted to ask you this! On blheli-s is it ok to run bluejay on esc still if not using bidirectional filtering in betafiight? And which do you think is better then if can. Blheli-s or Bluejay? Reason asking I run emu flight and thinking of trying out bluejay. appreciate your opinion on this 🤜
BlueJay should be fine even if you aren't using bidirectional d-shot. I haven't tested BLHeli_S yet.
@@ChrisRosser cool thank you Chris!! It looks really error free and like having the tones. I'll give it a go!
Thanks Chris! actually BlueJay now has 0.16 version :) and my qieustion - will that also apply to cinewhoops and their 12XX - 14XX motors ?
Ask the same
I recently switched to Bluejay (0.16, 24kHz, 15°) on a 3inch 2s toothick with 1202.5 motors. Is working very well so far.
@@kolibrif8242 that’s interesting as for whoops 2,5 it’s highly recommended 48 /96 and medium high (21) . At least it was known it’s “recommended” .
@@steamvogue I am still testing and not sure if I will keep it (was working surprisingly well in a very windy situation). I started with JazzMaverick 16.73 (first 48kHz and later 24kHz, both with default timing) but struggled with my tune, in particular prop wash. I am not sure what an acceptable level of prop wash for such build is and therefore I am still testing and changing my setup (yes, it is still there). As flight time is less important to me, I was wondering if 24kHz will enable my motors to faster spin up and slow down.
Thanks. I will try 0.16 15deg 24khz on my tp3 1204 3s. Flight time is aprox 8 min on blhelim 48khz 450mah
Have you found with BLheli32 ESCs flashed on 32.9 where if you clip something, the quad will spazz out and then once you've disarm and go to re-arm one motor will not spin up? Then you have to do a full power cycle than the the stuck motor will start working again like nothing happened? This keeps becoming a recurring thing and I'm not sure if it's FC firmware/settings or possibly ESC firmware/settings. Anyone else has this happen to them?
this prove that software is also important.
You should try testing the responsiveness of breaking on a 1s whoop board. 24 vs 48 vs 96khz. The very low deadtime should make 96khz suck a lot less. It is my understanding that the very low deadtime
Joe Lucid JESC found 96khz was effectively no braking
Sorry I’m new to this. In blheli 32 so you change the low freq to 16 and what do you set the high too. How do you do the byrpm setting? Thank you.
It only gives me the option to select high to 128.
@@johnrichard4076 what BL32 version are you on? You need either the 32.8.3 test code or the official 32.9 to enable ByRPM. Just slide it all the way to the right for High PWM and it will change from 128 to ByRPM.
Anyone else having problems with the current meter on the mamba f55 128k esc? I have 2 of them, can't get either of them to read correctly at all in BF4.3... (yes I've tried calibration)
Thank You.. Can I still get and use Bluejay or has it moved on? Cheers
Chris, what do you think about that mamba 128k blheli32? Issit good or bad?
I think it's good! The 128K PWM does make a difference if you use variable PWM in BLHeli32.
@@ChrisRosser so the 128k is not gimmic.. but the durability of it still a mystery
so, no matter what: on blheli S ESC's --> get Bluejay ?
I think so. The BlueJ project is very tightly integrated with the Betaflight team which I think is a huge benefit given how closely the ESC and FC work together in a quad.
I check back here often and scrob through to find the results. I'll save myself some time. Here's a link to the findings: 11:30
At wide open throttle the gates on the mosfets are wide open so the power output should always remain the same I would think?
Yes it should do. Small differences may be down to the FETs, timing and board design.
Pwm max set to byrpm mean it will max at the maximum pwm available right? Means esc with 48k pwm max will only play at 24k min and 48k max.
It may not reach the max PWM because it depends on the RPM of the motor.
@@ChrisRosser so which choise is the best. Cheap mamba with 128k capability vs more espensive esc that only runs 48k max?
Which one better? @chris rosser
Which motor do you use for this test Chris?
I always try to get the most supported hardware, which leads to top products. I can’t see a benefit in using older slower hardware, because there will be a lot more coming out in the next time which will cut out all boards without F3 and F4 processors. If you are already tuning at this level, you can’t save money any more looking 1 year into the future.
great, why haven't u tested the latest version of Bluejay? i.e. 0.16?
The configurator couldn't program settings for 0.15 or 0.16 when I started my testing. I've done a regression test and 0.16 performed similarly to 0.14.
I beleive blheli_s esc prices will start to raise XD
I have iflight nazgul evoque 6s how can I get bluejay it won't flash my esc any advice?
What is the "DEMAG" influences on this results ?
Maybe ESC MOSFET also effect the result? These ESC may have different MOSFET on it and they have different performance, will it cause the result different.
Perhaps so. I woudl have thought the 55A B32 ESC would have an advantage due to its higher rating but it doesn't appear so.
This Bluejay firmware for BLHeli S only, or can be support with BLHeli 32 also ? For this moment (can't find any info about that)
Cannot support 32-biut ESC's. Blheli S only.
Hello I was wondering if you can clear something up for me. My blheli 32 esc goes up to 48hz pwm frequency. Will it be safe to set the variable pwm low 16 and hi by rpm? Or by setting it to hi by rpm cause it to go past my max of 48kz
It's safe to do either. ByRPM won't go above 48K if the ESC doesn't allow it.
@@ChrisRosser Thank you for responding back to me. I just tried it but went back to 24 low and 48 high because the motors sounded rough with using by rpm.
I have read the bluejay wiki startup power recommendations, but I just want to confirm that for a 4s 5" build the minimum startup power (boost), which defaults to 1025, is recommended to be set to 1010 and the maximum startup power (protection), which defaults to 1100, is recommended for 'safety' to be set to 1020 (which is quite a difference in value!)? What's your take on this @chrisrosser?
i think i'll stick to 32 bit escs, but i will jump ship to open source 32 bit as soon as they're available, just because they have more access to new features
trick question! AM32
What is the kv on the motor?
1800KV
whatever is lighter and or cheaper... WINS!!!!
I flashed blue Jay and it messed up my vtx , no reception unless I hold the goggles right to the entenna. Iflight 5 inch
question, could we put Bluejay on a blheli_32 esc?
Unfortunately not, BL32 ESCs have locked bootloaders and the chipset is different.
Another setting I'd be curious about testing is sinusoidal vs trapezoid. And I wonder if pwm/timing makes a bigger difference on one vs the other
Do these bluejay settings also work well with a moblite 7 or not.
Yes they should do well
@@ChrisRosser Thank you
In a nutshell... If you are on the market for new ESC's then save some money and go with Jesc.
If you are already invested in a set of Blheli32 then just rung what you brung... not a large enough difference to swap to slightly more responsive Jesc.
You mean go with BlueJay. JESC you have to pay for it to get the RPM filtering firmware, BlueJay on the other hand is free and has custom motor startup tones to work with as well.
How about 7 inch settings ?
Yes iwant to know this too..
I haven't tested yet but both a 2207 and 2004 performed identically so I would expect a 2807 to also perform the same.
I'm interested in kiss now vs these
Anybody fligh this settings on a racing build, they are recommendet for this ?
First. Top vid Chris. Cheers.
How do you know? You haven't watched it yet..😆
I live in Bolton. We're ahead of the rest.
@@richardheedfpv9626 I've heard that Lancashire is one hour ahead..🤔❤
this may sound dumb so sorry in advance can i flash bluejay on blheli 32 esc ?. confused beginner
No I'm afraid you can't. Bluejay is only for BLHeli_S ESCs. BLHeli32 is just as good though.
@@ChrisRosser thankyou so much Chris I was following your tuning guide for betaflight 4.3 and got a bit confused when it came to flashing bluejay to the esc .so do I skip that part and continue with tuning the kwad I have a radix 2 fc and tmotor v2 4 in 1 blheli 32 esc
i dont know why on this test there is no efficiency different. i just flash bluejay on my tiny whoop, its noticeably lower amp draw and about 20% longer flightime