Unison Neve 1073 vs Vintage 1073, 1073LB, and Heritage Audio 73 Jr Hardware - Acoustic and Vocal
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- Опубліковано 24 лип 2024
- This shootout was done using a custom splitter that allowed simultaneous recording into all four preamps at once through Apollo converters. Files were level matched, but no further processing is used.
In this Video:
0:00 Setting the Stage
0:30 In-line Comparison
2:20 Blind AB Guitar
3:41 Blind AB Vocal
AB Guitar
AB Vocal
Null Test
Summary
Gear Used:
Apollo
Tacoma JK-50C Acoustic
Audio Technica AT5040
Vintage Neve 1073
Neve 1073LB
Heritage Audio 73 Jr
Special thanks to Silver Glen for providing the performance, song, and permission to use it.
#uadforums #matthepworth #studionu #matthepworthrecording #unison #neve1073
It was an amazing shootout, the video couldn't be done more professionally! Your perfectionism in the way of capturing all these in most fair possible way, the time you took to show us several different takes individually, the null test at the end, even your speech and your comments were so well done, and on top of that you've got a soothing voice haha!
Anyway it was very informative and it made me glad I bought the Apollo a few years ago, before I even knew they could be used with the Neve preamp plugin as well as other amazing sounding vintage machines emulations, I'm glad I've got them now haha, it was definitely a really good investment…
Thanks a lot again for the great quality content!
I'm blown away by your comments! Thank you so much!
@@MattHepworth you're welcome, I mean it! By the way, what system do you use to split the microphone cable into 4 different inputs on your DAW? And do you think it would be possible to do the same thing to split the signal into two inputs of the Apollo, for example one going into input 1 with the Neve preamp plugin on and the other one into input 2 with the Avalon 737 preamp plugin on? I own a U87 and I think it would be cool to compare the 2 preamps on the exact same takes like you did in the video.
Mine was custom built by Whirlwind back in the day. It's been very useful. There are several units that will let you do a two or three-way split that would work. Radial and Whirlwind both make one, as do a few other companies. Of course, you can also DIY.
@@MattHepworth really cool, thanks for the reply! and thanks for pinning my comment eheh
Great job, Matt - what an excellent shoot-out!
This is the best preamp shootout ever.
Wow! Many thanks!
Definitely! It was amazing!
Thanks for going through the trouble of making the test and filming and editing the whole thing. It's a lot of work. And very interesting. I just bought high end headphones (focal clear mg (and you seem to be wearing HD800(s))) , and I could clearly hear different sound signatures in all 4 preamps. For me A was dark, B seemed to "blur" different freqs, C was clear, and D was somewhat sibilant. But that's just my old ears perhaps. Anyway, thank you very much for going through the trouble of making this very interesting video! :-)
Thanks Matt that was great. Makes me happy to know the Unison pre is so close to the real thing.
Close enough to have no regrets.
Brilliant shoot-out, Matt! I wish all shoot-outs were this good!
Wow! Thank you!
Such a thoughtful comparison thank you for your hard work!
Thank you!
Brilliant test sir thank you! Looks like I'm subscriber number 1,000. Congrats on hitting that milestone. Hope to see more tests like this
Thank you so much! I gave your channel a check out when you subscribed - great stuff!
Thanks for doing this, can't imagine a better job being done in comparing these. Very happy UA 1073 owner rn
Thank you! I really appreciate that!
This was so good and well done. And to my surprise in the blind test I got the unison one right but probabley because I'm use to uad 1073. I didn't get any of others right and in the blind test I preferred the sound of the heritage jr to them all. Thanks for taking time to make this
Thank you!
Thank you for making this video. Super helpful!
Thanks for creating this honest, accurate and transparent shootout. Really well done. Like some others chose B. Great news, as it's what we use!
Thank you!
most consistent test i've ever seen! i had the bae 1073 mpf and sold it because I couldn't tell a difference when comparing with uad 1073 but sometimes I miss it just because i felt like it was what the "pros" use
Thank you! Great point about the justification aspect!
Love the BAE 1073! So juicy!
Wow, what a great test. My favorites were the Vintage Neve on acoustic, and the Neve 1073 LB on that vocal.
Thank you! They're all great sounding.
Amazubg thanks for doing this !
Thanks for taking the time to do this comparison - it's really useful!!
One other thing you might consider (or might have considered) as a control, would be to do a null test with two identical preamps. For example, record a source through two identical pre's to see just how much they null. That would create a baseline for how much null can be expected in the best case scenario.
Still, this is a very good test you did. It's much appreciated!!
Two Unison pres effectively nulled (zero audible sound). I didn't have pairs of any of the others. I also nulled each split against each other out of my splitter prior, and I was pleasantly surprised that each split effectively nulled.
@@MattHepworth OK, good to know!
btw, I loaded some of the audio from this video into my DAW and did a series of null tests on my own. I got nearly complete null between the Heritage and LB. All I could really hear was the artifact from the compressed (mp3) audio. Interestingly, the least amount of null I got was between the LB and the Vintage. Isn't that interesting?
Just to keep things super honest, I tested null on L vs R of each sample. All 4 samples 100% canceled their respective L/R channels. I also tried adjusting the levels by hundredths of a db to see if there was any level difference at play. None was found. But it does make me wonder how you're sure you're getting the exact same output level from each mic pre into your DAW.
btw, you mentioned that you did do a null test with just the splitter to make sure it wasn't contributing, but you used the term "effectively" nulled. Were you hearing a tiny bit of bleed? I think it should cancel 100%, no?
I do not think I can past a blindfold A/B test. Even loading into my own system and putting it on a 1 bar loop, I can't hear the differences.
Great analysis! I think the reason nothing nulls well against the vintage is simple: more non-linear behaviour. The vintage has more harmonic content/distortion than the newer units (probably mostly due to age).
Nice video Matt. Close enough for my work for sure.
Thanks!
I could hardly tell the difference, but I chose B and D as sounding fuller in the low end, so I chose these as the best. It’s funny because B turned out being…well y’all know.
Thanks for the great content!
Thank you!
B was my favorite and I was sure it was the vintage Neve 😮 Thanks, man!
Many thanks!
I am a unison user (that's what I can afford as a hobbyist on a budget 🙂). I liked "C" the best, and the unison the least, however the unison still sounded great and I am glad it is available to guys like me. 🙂 That was a great test. Thanks for posting. God bless.
Thank you!
Amazing, thanks so much!!
Thank you!
Great preamp shootout! I think I mostly prefer Heritage Audio and Neve LB, that sound almost similar, with some saturation perhaps at the low mids and low end. On the other hand Vintage Neve and UAD sound almost the same. Great job from UAD though!
Thanks so much!
Amazing! More of these!
Thank you!
His comparison is better than other "more main streamers". This is by far the best comparison. Just that sometimes I wonder how they sound different from a audio interface preamp, just because I'm considering (and struggling)to decide my first preamp.
Thank you! I plan to do more like this!
The only one I could consistently pick out was the UAD. It had the same tells as amp sims with the high end sounding scratchy. In the vocals C I thought was the 1073 since the low end was more creamy and pleasing to me. Definitely my favorite out of them. But couldn't distinguish the hardware ones enough to pick one over the other. I love my UAD version. But this definitely settled it for me that at least 1 hardware unit for vocals is worth it for me.
You are so right or at least what you said made sense to me. Thanks for pointing me to hearing in a way I can understand.
What an awesome shootout, you did a great job, thanks! in the blind test I knew that I didn't like the 1st preamp (Heritage), it just sounds too lifeless and dull, but I had a hard time hearing the differences with the other 3. The Unison is shockingly close. In the end I prefer the AMS and vintage Neve.
Thank you very much!
Thank you.
I'm a hobbyist and don't consider myself at all experienced in the finer points of professional audio, but managed to identify the Neve vintage.pretty easily, which was a pleasant surprise. It just seemed to have a fuller more saturated low end and greater warmth overall. By comparison the Unison, which I have, sounded fairly flat to my ears, though not unpleasantly so. Obviously, there's also the skill in actually setting the controls for the best audio capture, but many thanks indeed for taking the trouble to make this video. It was exactly what I was looking for.
Thank you for posting your experience! I think the vintage was most different because of the age and tolerences of the components.
thanks for takin' the time to do this, and obviously thanks for all the work you do at your uadforums site. much appreciated !
Thank you!!!
These are great!! I guessed the uad unison one. I’ve been using it a lot, just sounds a little thinner than the hardware.
Thanks for the comments!
I'm surprised because A & B were my favorites in the blind test. C was my least favorite and D followed. Thanks for doing such a comprehensive test.
Thank you! Yeah, I find blind tests very beneficial, since it removes confirmation bias.
preety depend what equipment people use. If someone do not listen on pro equip, how he can hear nuances? how much people here comment using cheap irelevant monitors?
Very impressive performance by the Apollo. My 69 year old musician/engineer ears ain't what they used to be in the high end, but I'm glad I've got an Apollo and I think I will pickup some of the preamp plugs. Thanks!
Indeed! There's NOTHING hardware or software-wise that can stop anyone from making a top-shelf release on an Apollo.
What an absolutely amazing comparison video.
Regarding the differences... On it's own it really doesn't sound like much. The blind test fooled, I don't mind admitting. But I've found that you need to improve every single part of your chain, to start getting great results. Room, mic, cable, pre amp, interface, AD/DA conversion... If anything in the chain is weak, the whole thing will fall apart. But if everything is working OK, then differences get smaller and smaller. It's the point of diminishing returns.
Awesome video!
Thank you!
I picked out the unison one right away. Honestly if the unison plugin was $99 and not $299 it would be more compelling but you can get a used heritage audio for like 650, at that price point I think it's worth the difference.
Surprisingly I liked the Unison more than the Heritage audio, followed by the vintage 1073, and 1073LB which was my favourite
I wish every Shoot Out Comparsion Video would be made like this! This is how it should be! But honestly I really don't know why we Audio Nerds are carryng so much about these tiny little Differences out there that no Consumer cares about or even can hear or will noticed
Thank you very much! Yeah, sometimes we're obsessed about the smallest detail at the expense of the big picture.
Amazing
One of my colleagues made a really astute observation which is that the real differences are noticed when you track 20 different parts through mic pre's. In other words, it's cumulative. So, while it's difficult to hear the difference between these preamps with one single mic, that's only scratching the surface. Once you track 4 guitar parts, bass, drums and a bunch of vocals, the differences might become much more apparent.
I like the very last line a lot. Especially since you included "might". I plan to put this to the test in some way in the next few months.
@@MattHepworth Excellent!!
Honestly, I can understand that concept when applied to a console, like when we used to track and mix everything through a particular desk with its own sound, but I really can't imagine these very subtle differences impacting the final in any significant way. And if you're worried about it, track the drums through API plugs, and the Vox through the Voxbox plug. That should actually make a difference you can hear.
This idea of stacking got passed around in the early to mid 2000's, but there was never any proof or evidence that it was actually true...or even if it was true that it would actually make it worse rather than just different or, heaven forbid, even better. Truth is, this is the last standing argument to why we'll spend $3000 for a preamp that only has subtle differences over an emulation that costs less than $100 these days. Anyway, we really have entered an era where all this stuff is different, not necessarily better. But we do just love to be wrapped in the loving arms of our vintage gear...
All true, however, One other thing to consider is build quality and features. I did buy 16 channels of Neve 1073 OPX pre's and I'm very happy with their performance, features, build quality, etc. Do they sound better than knock off versions? Maybe, maybe not. But, I do have 100% confidence in the quality. They also have high resale value if for some reason I decide to sell them. So, for me the decision to buy name brand equipment isn't always only about the sound.
Thank you for the Video :)
Thank you!
great video
Thank you!
Listening on a small domestic speaker, pre-amp D popped out right away as just being louder and more forward. I’m certain that the UA-cam compression makes the samples rather more homogeneous than they would be in the studio.
Thanks for the comparison. I hate myself for loving D. Clearly stood out. I hoped D was an affordable choice
I understand! Incidentally, I ended up selling it not long after the shootout. Had it a few years and it always sounded great.
Just found this- Great!
Awesome, thank you!
God, the vintage Neve murdered them all
It's the low end bottom that no clone can match
Great shootout. But one thing to not ignore here is by comparing all those preamps together, and looking at all the comments on the various comparisons, it just goes to show that it really doesn't matter these days. Sound and all things audio is just so subjective to each individual. You could be using a cheap Behringer preamp or interface, and somebody just might prefer that sound over all the expensive units. But regardless, props to UA for a great modeled plugin.
Thanks! Indeed, even budget equipment can make a great record. No gear excuses.
The differences become much more apparent when you are using them for different purposes.
For example, a podcaster doesn't care about why this or that pre-amp or microphone may sound better when it's used for dozens of overdubs mixed together at once. And why _would_ they? They care about how it sounds in _solo, in isolation!_
But hey...
If anyone decides to "go all Behringer" for their next 24+ channel studio project, I wish them the best of luck.
wow, thanks Matt. I couldn't hear much, if any difference. the null tells the truth of course, but for the $$ I'll take Apollo!
Thanks, Rod! Yeah, though not identical, they're all in the same family.
This is really great especially for a newbie like me.
So I am enough of a newbie guitar player I am beginning to hear the tone every one talks about and while my AmpliTube 5 Max is great and will probably work great for live or even YT compressed recordings.
However the new UA Dream 65 has made a major impact of my use case so has the Volt.
Becoming a UA fanboy wish I had purchased an Apollo and will eventually upgrade.
Thanks! Yeah, lots of great stuff has come from UA over years. They're at the top of their game.
I might have gotten lucky, but I guessed the unison correctly. Kinda confirmed it on the last vocal sample… I think transformers reveal themselves when there are quicker transients. It’s not a quality thing as much as it is just a certain response/feel. Great video! Thanks!
Thanks for the comment, Ty!
@@MattHepworth I am getting ready to purchase a lunch box, and a Neve 500 series style. Looking currently at 1073 Lb or R88Lb. No clue as to which box to get? Any thoughts about these 3? Or other suggestions- Thanks!
@@tabodee The 1073LB does a pretty good job, as you can hear in the test, but my choices in this case would be either the Heritage, or an Avedis MA5. I still have a 1073LB and use it a lot, but I prefer the MA5 almost all the time. I no longer have the Heritage or vintage.
@@MattHepworth I was thinking of getting a companion eq as well- don’t know if that makes a difference. Already have an 1176.
Thanks for doing this Matt. They are so insanely close that I could not reliably identify the differences between the LN, vintage and heritage, but having said that, the Unison stuck out every time to me. The Unison has this ~600Hz "honk" that I battle with daily so I could always spot it. Also, the Unison also doesn't quite get the rich low end of the others as well.
Good ears, Dan! The plosive is the easiest tell, but if I'm just playing a track I can't always tell you which is which.
Im curious if the impedence settings on the various units would have played a role in the results of this shootout. The apollo sounded so much like the vintage 1073, i would have expected it to do much better in the null test.
All were set to the same impedance (Hi/1200 Ohm), but, yes, that would definitely play a role normally.
I guessed right. Heritage was the darkest one, Unison was the brightest one, LB was even and the Vintage sounded most like the Unison but was a tad more even. I liked the LB the best, but all very close except I think the Heritage was noticeably darker.
Great observations!
I hear the same. HA bit less open, UA bright but ok, LB and Vintage very close. Mabey vintage bit open . Since vintage is not option, LB i am interested. HA is bit cheaper and sound bit cheaper. UA suprise me. Good job for them. btw, I listen on Neuman monitors and SSL interface.
I am a bit late to the party, but this is the BEST NEVE SHOOTOUT ON UA-cam!
Thank you so much!!!
such a great vid! instant sub
any chance we could get the files? this sold me on getting a pre and i wana null the heritage and LB lol
Thank you! I'd kind of planned on that initially. Let me see...
Awesome shootout. No reason for me to buy the hardware. Unsion 1073 is good enough, by listening this test. Thanks ✌🏼
Thank you!
on the short takes its much easier to tell the neves the edges are smoother and the mid is bigger and more present i always listen for high end to see if its gets harsh or brittle or stays clear and smooth!
great shootout. With the guitars, it was close. While blind, I actually liked the Heritage the most on vocals, sounded a little darker, less sibilant to me. But, in the context of a song I may have wanted more air? Only thing I'd personally like to see is the Apollo w/o unison, so we can see how much the unison plug is affecting the stock pre... cheers.
Thanks for the great comments!
Great demonstration. So that makes me confident to buy a Heritage Audio then.
I think the Heritage is excellent.
@@MattHepworth yes I think so too, thanks.
Increíble
Having a balanced splitter and recording the SAME TAKE simultaneously is the ONLY way to go.
Yes. It's the only way I'll do a shootout like this.
Vintage 1073 sounded amazing across each take, Unison had a very consistent character that I’m happy to have, the other two had a certain sponginess in the low mids that I didn’t enjoy (although let’s be honest, it’s extremely minute differences).
Every pre had something I wanted to boost/cut, however the Vintage had an unmatched richness.
Undoubtedly this doesn’t matter in the context of a mix - good chance the Unison wins out in that regard as it’s a little more “crispy” than the other three.
Thank you!
Pretty good, all the pres. Listening on the phone, after the initial pass (with the preamp tags visible), it was pretty easy to recognize the vintage 73: it’s just perfect, no harshness, sweet and frequency extended (hi end, no idea lo end) and the Unison (good response but less extension and a touch harsher high mids).
Harder to distinguish were the Heritage (on the first/tag pass it sounded to me a drop boxier and more closed than the LB) and the LB (more hi end emphasis and less depth in the 1st pass). In fact, I couldn’t . I just knew the first 2 were LB or Heritage. Couldn’t identify which.
Again, great test.
My conclusion: there is definitely a sound quality value to vintage gear. It is NOT hype. The modern gear harshness is not imagined. I know that every vintage channel ever sounds different from any other and that age makes almost impossible to know how it did sound when new and how many repairs and spare parts have changed the sound, but this same thing happened when comparing 414s. The vintage EB’s just sounded like a record.
This by no way means one can’t make better sounding records than before, but it just needs a little more work and probably accounts for the proliferation of resonance supressors and dynamic eqs.
Again, thanks for the great test.
Thanks for doing this. I think I can pick out D every time. It's slightly darker and gooeyer, if that's a word lol. And it does have more beautiful mid harmonic content.
But the caveat is how they break up. Neves should be pushed on the front end, then used the fader to pull back, so distorting the xformers. That's where the magic happens amd I feel that these preamps weren't pushed like that. That's where the real harmonics and low end starts to blossom.
Would it be possible for you to make another video but pushing each preamp?
Thanks for the comments! I no longer have the vintage or the Heritage, unfortunately. This may sound surprising, but the hard clipping they produce when pushed (including the vintage) is rarely desirable to me for anything but special effects, since the distortion is so obvious. The Neve as a fuzz box has become more popular the last decade or so, though.
You're right about D having more harmonics. I believe it's from the components drifting further out of spec over the years.
Sorry, while the apollo sounds OK....I've used, and sadly purchased dang near every emulation they make trying to perfect the sound until I realized that the problem with the sound was actually IN the pres on board. The top end is gritty and has tons of digital chill and it really starts to show up in the high end. If you're a stickler for musical analog sound...or you think the top end between 4 and 10K is hella important in mixes GET THE OUTBOARD GEAR and run your pre line in with a balanced TRS cable. I purchased lots of expensive tube mics, a u47, a 269, even a c12 and I ran them through the apollo on the 1073, Avalon 737, api, Neve 88rs etc etc etc ALL OF EM... and no dice. The best one is probably the 88RS. If you can stomach the sound..run with it. I have to admit here that they sound very alike, but when I record here in my studio the sound is RADICALLY different. I have to have outboard pres running through as line in and that's when the music shows up. Sadly, I didn't realize it was the pres because so many people had said these units were great and I actually bought an RME babyface pro FS thinking is was something else in the interface causing the lack of 3D sound field...like maybe the converters were bad or something. Turns out it was the preamps in the damn thing the whole time. As soon as i put a legit 1073 in I was STUNNED at the difference. So the UAD pres are good...emulations are cool..but they aren't all that. Get a Great river and pop it in with your mic. Transients are a pain in the ass with that digital chill. I walked in circles trying to upgrade my studio. Wish someone had saved me the time. But if you're getting a great sound...you do you. But if not...Get a bitchin outboard pre....something to sculpt the tone before it hits the converters and turns that sweetness into the digital realm. Digital chill is for the birds. Anyway..long text..thanks for your video and efforts.
Thank you for the insight
I guessed the HA and the LB correctly, but switched up the vintage and the UA version. I guess UAD really did a good job with this preamp
Same. And that was with a Google Pixel phone speaker and hearing aids. LB was my favorite. Best blend of smoothness/creaminess and modern tone. I've come to realize I appreciate the Neve 1073 pre-amp tone, but hate the 1073eq that is too gritty and garagebandish. The LB is perfect for me.
Very interesting!
Listening on really nice mixing headphones, the og 73 sounds much more warmer & full. The way I describe it lately is much more information being captured.
Thanks for the comments!
Great review.. I find myself leaning towards C or the 1073 LB
Thank you!
Great comparison! I was hoping the unison would be more impressive, but it lacks the dept and weight of the Neve. I was able to pick each of the 4 amps correctly. Although they are close and will work in a mix, the vintage Neve is on a different level.
I think it's the extra distortion due to component age and drifting out of spec.
@@MattHepworth that's like when comparing vintage guitar gear say where (unlike this) cheap unit were made at first with poor control. So some old units are awesome and some or worse (plus parts degrading over the decades) vs new built to spec clones which sound completely different.
Yeah. With vintage units the'll still be in the same ballpark (like all the pres in this shootout), but as components age and degrade over the years we may hear some of that as positive on one unit and not as positive on another.
Matt-What a great gift you gave us! Thanks brother! I just bought a 1073LB --it sounds better to my ears than any other mic pre, in every shootout I've heard. Got a BAR 2-space to pier it. Vocal, bass, & acoustic & electric guitar are mainly what I track w a mic. Sold my great clones...The LB is so rich, & easy to mix!
Awesome! You can't go wrong with that!
Im having a serious case of GAS (gear aquiring syndrome) but i CANNOT justify buying a Neve preamp, when I already have the Unison version after hearing this. It misses a little bit of "sponginess" on acoustic guitar, but the differences are so minute it is not worth forking out so much money. Well done UA!
I think they're all the "Neve" sound and won't let you down.
hey matt, was the 73jr the old version or the new mk2 version for this? nice work btw...
Hey there, it was the original. Thanks!
Hi thanks for video! Vintage 1073 sounds superb with that gentle HF space inside on acoustic guitar! I have an old EMU interface with an old cap preamps and want to buy an Golden Age Premiere 1073 if i will keep up. A and D are great on guitar. B and D on vocals here. B on vocal a bit to much sharp and reveal a distortion.
Thanks! I tried a Golden Age and it had some cool color to it.
Good video sir
Thanks!
i was a gearhead for a long time spending thousands but i realized that the music it was counts. i kept my oldscool isa 430 producer pack wich is a monster of a box and the rest had to leave wich actually helped me to focus on the important part... the music.
Great comment! We do tend to get too focused on the gear!
How did you make the microphone splitter? It gave me an idea for a patch bay but then i started thinking of blowout issues
Mine was custom built, but it was kind of like this. - www.whirlwindusa.com/products/snakes-splitters-and-multiwiring-systems-splitters-mltsp1x2-and-mltsp1x3-multisplits
Mine is 1:1 Jensen transformers and a few other differences.
Does the Unison Neve sound like it has a medium slow pitch to me? For moments It sounds just a little distant. That is what I perceived in the guitars. But it sounds great anyway and is included with the interface! Great value! Excellent video!!!
Thank you! I'm not really hearing the pitch aspect in this case. Do you have a time in the video where it sticks out to you?
@@MattHepworth At 1:21 minutes they sound like a nice plugins. The base sounds a bit distant to me, is like a slow release, but anyway I like it! ... In this case my favor is the 1073LB, second the vintage or the Heritage Audio. Basically I like how you did the recording, in that order. I wonder how this preamp sounds for recording voice overs?!...Great video.
I'm so proud of myself. I got them all correct!
HA73 has a little "honk" to it
Unison has... no defining characteristic. Still sounds good!
LB was most forward
Vintage had a particular sparkle the others didn't have.
And in the vocal test, before the reveal, I preferred C. Makes sense because it was most forward and that's what I was listening for.
very nice. I'd like to hear how the behavior translates at extreme settings of the red knob.
That'd be difficult, since the real unit has no output level control, unlike the software version and LB.
The Heritage was pretty easy to pick out. The UAD and Neves were harder to distinguish. Subtle differences there, but hard to pick which was which.
Interesting comment. Did you like the Heritage more or less than the other three? Thank you!
@@MattHepworth the Heritage was definitely a bit darker, and had a slightly rougher midrange. My preference was for the Neves. Probably the 1073LB and the vintage, with the UAD very close behind. Excellent shootout!
Great work. I picked A & D. Low mids from HA are misleading . Makes u think thicker is better. LPF could reveal more.
I agree is difficult to pick… It’s really splitting hairs… hm….
Thanks for the comment! Some are definitely splitting hairs...
I can't hear a huge difference that justify investing in real hardware compared to my Apollo x4.
You make very interesting and great content!
I try to do the same humble job on my little French Chanel. See ya 🙏
Thank you! My French isn't great, but you have a great channel!
I found correct only the vintage .. but clearly they are very close ! The most amazing is how the Unison Sounds !
Thank you for the comment!
Unison seems slightly boomier between 120-180 Hz if only a dB or two, but it "lumps" the dynamics a bit and could accumulate rapidly unless EQ'ed out of tracks or offset by mic response.
Thank you for the comment!
Another thing related to the boominess is that the clones have a more pronounced effect on volume of the high note that immediately follows the bass note, similar to (but more subtle than) how a drumbeat into compression with no hi-pass in the sidechain squashes the highs.
The LB kept the highs a little better - even the vintage 1073 sounded comparatively rubbery/slewed in this chain. Higher tolerance parts, I suspect, is partly why.
Hello.
Which Apollo was used and which UAD plugin?
UAD has two Neve plugins.
Thanks for the answer.
Three now, actually! 1073, 1290 (pre-only), and 1084. This was the 1073. All were connected simultaneously to Apollo (Silverface). Thanks!
@@MattHepworth Thank you!
Hi Matt, I used to live up in Ogden Valley, now on Vancouver Island, BC Canada. Thanks for your great videos! Just awesome. I have been running a pair of Neve pres, La2a and 1176 in the rack for years now. I did pick up the UAD OCTO pcie card years ago for mixing. Obviously things have changed since my 2009 Mac Pro tower.
I am at a point where I am considering upgrading the computer/ studio and am noticing a trend now where a lot of Apollo unison pre users are wanting to step outside their interfaces to 500 series or 19” rack pres. and possibly eq, compression as well. Can you please share why they might be doing that at this point? Better upfront signal? Are the unison pres not cutting it? Is it boredom and gear addiction driven? It just seems a bit of a contradiction to need to step away from the Apollo ecosystem if in fact the plug-ins are so darn good? (Although reading that Apollo sharc chips are somewhat antiquated)
I am watching a ton of videos of lots of product and user testing and learning a ton. I am trying to keep things simple before going into the box but possibly incorporate some additional pres for simultaneous tracking. I was considering the X8P with a Twin X Quad. This seemed like a great and simple streamline set up possibly avoiding patch bays if I remained in the plug-in world. (My main focus is to write!)
Can you offer any thoughts to me and anyone else out there in a similar transition? (Thinking of waiting to see what the New Year 2024 brings in the Apollo world.)
Ps. I have never tested the Apollo converters or unison pres in person. Much thanks …….
Cool! I'll respond in more detail when I'm at a computer!
@@MattHepworth Great, thanks. I sent a reply earlier with an E: address, but not sure if UA-cam allows this.
I got the vintage right due to big 3d sound, others wre alike..
Great video, subscribed.. Is this 73jr 1st generation or newer ii version?
Thanks! The 73jr was one of the originals.
@@MattHepworth So whats your favorite clone? Does heritage come close? I almost bought a stam, sounds great but they can be unreliable wirh quality control. I keep wondering if you can replace output transform with vintage one in heritage and if it be any better. Audio scape came with 1290 too
I think the Heritage is excellent. Maybe my fav.
@@MattHepworth do u think ams 1073lb would sound different and more closer to orig toplogy/sound if their eq is added w/insert cable? Or it doesn't matter? Did the vintage unit tested here is with eq?
It may, but it's not going to make a huge difference. EQ was bypassed on the original.
Is the custom mic splitter available for purchase somewhere? I'd love to get one of them for my own testing. If not, can you recommend one? Thanks!!
Mine were specially built by Whirlwind many years ago. I found a couple smaller ones a couple years ago with 1:1 Jensen transformers and snagged them as well.
@@MattHepworth Ah! Very cool! I see there are lots of these splitters on Sweetwater. Some are pricey, but probably worth it.
@@paultavenner6464 Yeah. Not all are created equally, but things like Radial, Whirlwind, etc. will be of sufficient quality.
Anyone Know if the AMS Neve 1073LB operates at 24Volts?
It doesn't take advantage of 24V, unfortunately.
Matt, your voice sounds great, just great. Care to share your mic chain?👍
Wow, thank you! I'll have to check my notes, but I'll post back here. Thanks!
Looks like SM7 to Neve Preamp in Unison to 1176LN Legacy. Little bit of Fab Filter EQ in post and RVox for a gate.
Wow, maybe UA-cam compression is hurting this, but I really liked the Unison vocals! It has the "profile" of the hardware but just cleaner. Really good job from UA on this one!
I think that's a pretty accurate description. Having spent plenty of time with the wav files, I feel like the differences are reasonably maintained in the UA-cam version, as long as you're watching at at least 720p.
The only one I got right was the 1073LB, because I owned a DPX and they share the same "quality" - the constricted, slightly compressed sound - the opposite of open. It is also the reason I sold my DPX. Heritage Audio sounds really good tho...
Thanks! I also really like the Heritage.
I use a Capi 312 on acoustic with a straight cardioid large.
If I had to pick one of these.
C 1073LB was very subtle clearer and controlled to my old ears. Sounded best through my mains and my Bluetooth. Very Subtle Less muddy. Sounds like it would sit better in a mix with less EQ.
Thanks for the comments! Keep in mind, I intentionally chose a mic that was flat to a fault so the low frequency differences could really show...
The Neve 1073LB is very similar to the Vintage Neve 1073 when it comes to tone and the high end. It just seem to me that the 1073LB has a tighter low end and the Vintage 1073 have more weight and open kinda sound. The Heritage 73 had just sounded a little darker and doesn't have those nice highs like the other Neve's. UAD not bad but sound to thin.
Thank you for the great comment!
They all sound great but D sounds like heaven. Now I know why lol 😂
i always could pick out the non hardware one...and that's just one track. start stacking 'em and welcome to plasticland!
I can hear the Converters on the Unison Pre... Are all the Channels going into the Apollo?
Yes, all into the Apollo converters.
My Blind Test Rankings were:
#1. C- 1073 LB
#2. B- Unison 1073
#3. D- Vintage 1073
#4. A- HA 1073
I immediately knew, blindly, that the lunchbox was my favorite. I don't own it, but the clarity and creamy smooth midrange is why we love Neve.
If it wasn't for the clarity on the Unison 1073, I would have picked the Vintage 1073; It really tricked me! I literally thought B was the LB and C was the Vintage. D was just too warm for my ears and that's okay if you like that sound. I just knew for sure A had the worst "mud"-range. (Hence why the highs in the null test were so quiet, the HA copied the highs but not the mids and lows.
if we had tested drums or something with more transients, I'm sure I would have picked D first, then C second because that's where analog hardware thrives.
If you're broke like me, Unison gets you really really close for cheaper. If you want the Neve sound with a modern tone, then save up for a 1073LB. But if you want that old "warm" sound, then go all out on the vintage. But Try not to cheap out on clones if you're serious about clarity and studio mixing.
This is an amazing test. Thank you so much.
Thanks for the detailed reply!
Great video, lot's of care put into it. Next time though, please hit those transformers harder and get some saturation, especially on vocals. The Unison doesn't compare to Neve hardware when pushed, but it's really nice otherwise, for what it is.
Thank you!
based on the blind test, I thought these and for me this is the order:
C - clear, more present (1073LB)
D - clear, more front (Vintage 1073)
B - low end boost, little mud and swish (Unison Neve 1073)
A - balanced, little mud (HA-73jr)
Thanks for the comment and observations!