Luxury Watch Brand Ranking - From a Watch Dealer
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- Опубліковано 3 лис 2021
- Let's talk about the ranks of luxury watch brands and where they belong on the luxury watch tier list. I will be drawing from my experience as a luxury watch dealer as well as a long-time collector. I have owned, dealt in, or handled all of the brands from this list- excited to share with you my thoughts!
Thank you!
-John P
/ therealjohnp
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You didn't just put Hublot in the same tier as Casio...oh my. Where is Nico when you need him
This is outrageous
Lol
UNACCEPTABLE!
Also GS and Rolex on one tier... Nico won't like this
Yeahhh
If Casio is on the list, Seiko should be there too
agreed, Seiko makes better dress watches than divers in my opinion.
Listen dude, IWC should be in the B tier for sure. I own a $30,000 IWC perpetual calendar dual moon phase that is absolutely UNBELIEVABLE, and that's such a higher level of craftsmanship that it should NEVER be in the C tier. Wake up man...
nah IWC are shitters, get some A tier on ya wrist, life is too short not to be a baller
Everyone has a different opinion on this, but I just don't see how AP makes the top and Vacheron don't. AP have offered us very little other than the Royal Oak. VC have made the most complicated watch in history, and their history is better than everyone else. Also JLC should be just outside the top tier. Breguet also up higher, they make very fine watches with incredible history.
They sold themselves out to non Swiss company. They should not even be on the list
@@samuelburton5576 who do you mean by “they”?
@@kaypee1972 VC. They belong to a publically traded company unlike AP, Patek, and the true king of watches..... ROLEX
@@samuelburton5576 haha, you’re aware that some of the greatest watch brands: JLC and A. Lange & Söhne belong like VC to be same group? Which is public traded but still also a Swiss company? We are here talking about watches and not business structures of a company.
@@kaypee1972 The point I was making is that the hose brands and hat bling to conglomerates are beholden to shareholders who sometimes put profit above product and many times only care about sales
Seiko should at least be acknowledged on this chart somewhere
Yup. Especially if he’s going to stick Casio on the list.
Love you Jon but how on planet earth did you not put Seiko on this thing
Probably just forgot Seiko. I would say they are E or D tier.
At the bottom perhaps ?
This list is obviously bs... Maybe he was drinking before this video...lol
This list is laughable. Not really sure what you’re ranking here, because it makes no sense. Casio next to Longines 😂
Vacheron should be Tier A.
I agree !!
Absolutely - and arguably AP maybe not?
@@jamessymington2466 I think A tier is VC, AP, Patek, and Lange. The question is where do you put independents like Debethune Greubel Forsey or Gronefeild are they above A tier ?
Don't think so!!!! VA sold their soul for money.
@@samuelburton5576 In what way? Surely the criteria is the complication of the watches and the finishing quality where I struggle to see the difference from Patek? I have a problem with one-trick pony AP.
Omega is not there in terms of branding? Bro you really gotta take a look around 😂
After all, who's ever heard of The Olympics, James Bond, the Moon, World War 1, etc....
@@ErikL727 exactly and no Omega didn't do much right? Except that the watch landed on the moon, became and still is the official watch of NASA and was sported by F1 star Schumacher and thats all because they "aren't there in terms of branding"
Man on the moon!!!!!
I appreciate that you went for it here as most don’t have the gusto. Ranking these brands that have put out so many pieces over decades is like trying to rank the biggest waves by only including the ones you’ve seen. Sometimes you had to be there to experience it but maybe the next day no one cares. It’s emotional after all.
A shame that Universal Geneve has not stood the test of time, lovely watches.
Interesting ranking. Disagree with Tudor and Omega same brand ranking. Omega not only offers a superior product but has greater brand equity. Perhaps this is reflective of only the watch community as of late.
I own two Omegas and previously owned a Tudor BB58. You’re right but only slightly. Equity wise, you get the same money out of a Tudor these days that you get out of a SMP. That’s the bottom line. On top of that, Tudors frankly look classier. That’s why people are buying it in droves. Toy looking Omegas have no answer for the sleek sharpness of the black bays. They look like child’s play. I think you’re referring to the Omega of the 60s and 70s. And you would be correct
Agree. Tudor doesn’t have the same level of detailing and the cases and finishing are very basic compared to Omega. Tudor does have hype though. That’s worth quite a bit apparently.
John love the channel and I generally agree with your position on most topics. You have me completely lost on this one though. I couldn’t disagree more with too many of these to list. What exactly are you ranking? Quality, Marketing, popularity, etc???
Omega's technical proficiency, range of styles and complications, craftsmanship, enduring history and professional reliance can only be DREAMED about by Tudor. It's really just a matter of if you want a vintage styled watch, or a more modern piece.
@@ViolinistWilliam Omega is a wannabe Rolex brand. Never will be!!
Hi John, great content. All your arguments are transparent and logical. I think that your listing is fair. Missing GO in your ranking. Kind regards
Not sure, what this ranking is based on: quality, innovation, legacy, design, finishing, materials, decorations, collection, marketing, price, brand recognition, taste, …. I would think, for a serious ranking you would need to make a matrix with a weighed list of categories and give each brand points for the category and then get your ranking. I really would look forward to such unbiased ranking. Not happy with what you have put here together and I’m sure you’ve spent a lot of time and effort to make this list, which is highly appreciated. I think you can do better in a future list.
Some brands to add: Nomos, Glashütte Original, you already mentioned: Sinn, maybe even Junghans, Seiko (you got there Casio, so this is obviously not just luxury watch brands).
He woke up one morning saw which watches he needed to sell and made this bs video.... Its just illogical...
@@Not_me9791 well that’s unfair. And I don’t think they have AP, PP etc. for sale.
I completely agree
Hi John, I mostly agree about Bulova, particularly the Accutron reference, the Spaceview at the top of that lineup. The Lunar Pilot is another popular chrono with new collectors, but it's much too large for me, while the Computron is cool in its own '70s kitsch way. Some CURV models are pretty sweet for larger wrists too, and the Oceanographer series is quite nice, as is the new Archive Series MIL-SHIPS (but a bit pricy for this brand),. The Bulova lines I'm even more interested in trying out, and possibly collecting if I could just find somewhere to peruse before purchasing online first, are the ideally sized (for my smaller 6.5-inch wrist) Frank Sinatra collection (the Fly Me To The Moon is gorgeous and seems true to the brand's mid-century heritage), while the Joseph Bulova collection also looks very good, particularly the Banker. This said I couldn't find either of the latter two collections on their site. Do you know if they've been discontinued? Would be s shame, because I believe they were on to something special. All the best
While it was almost physically painful to see Hamilton ranked so low at first, the explanation starting around 4:55 plus Lange and Journe (my grails) being at the top made me see the point in context.
Really enjoyed this ranking 👍🏽 Thanks John
Omega same ranking as Tudor? Oh that’s an insult. Absolute insult!
If anything Tudor should be higher than omega than omega for their output nowadays, omegas not what it used to be
Great insights john thank you !
Where would seiko/orient be in this list ? Would have mike to hear about ulysse nardin, zrc...
What about high end micro brands such as de bethune, Romain Gautier ?
Thanks !!
we have to appreciated John P is a watch business and at the Cole face of whats good and bad in watch making and movement etc.. I for really one appreciated the video.. thank you..
I'm sure you will get blow back for this episode. I admire your courage! Although I disagree with where you placed many brands. You should have JLC in the top rank. I would have liked to see where you would rank Corum. Suggestion for a future episode: Explain the difference between Rolex and Rolex Prince.
This is a ranking of what????
John - a brave video, I absolutely commend you for doing this. You will get plenty of pushback. I hope other UA-camrs attempt to do the same thing !!!
JLC is typically underrated, I am glad to see it high on your list. Hopefully their prices pick up in the second hand market. I also like the love for GS. Having owned one I can say they are top notch quality wise.
Jlc is not underrated at all. One of the most respected watch makers of all time. A JLC watch played a key role in the new doctor strange movie. That was a HUGE ad.
No way Breguet and Rolex are in same league...Breguet is a poetry, and Rolex is.............. Massproduced.....
Great video. I'm surprised to see Tag listed at such a low rank though. I don't know about that one... when I was a kid in the 80's and 90's, I remember Tag being regarded as one of the top watches you could get besides Rolex of course.
They are using eta movements and invests lots in marketing. I have the calibre 16 aquaracer, if you have an omega or tudor i would be glad to trade.
Hey John P-I was wondering if you could comment on some other “unusual“ brands that I haven’t heard you or Federico talk about in the past: de Grisogono, epos, and Ernest Borel - particularly the vintage kaleidoscope face watches.. as always, love the content, love the video. Keep it going!
VC really is tier A
I agree they have the quality, heritage, craftsmanship. Everything.
False. Not a true Swiss brand. Bought by Chinese company and then resold. They are forever banished!!!!!!!
@@samuelburton5576 Bullshit
@@samuelburton5576 nah
@@samuelburton5576 bought by a Saudi group. People really love to blame China for everything eh?
Nico will probably have a fit seeing Hublot and Casio on the same tier.
JP, I will readily admit that Bulova is shoveling out a lot of dreck - as evidenced by their low rating. However, there are a few diamonds in the haystack - such as the Aerojet series (now selling at half-off). I bought one of the first Aerojets a couple of years ago - they were available in Germany before being offered in the US. It was (and is) one of my most beautiful watches.
Where is Nomos?
Bulova was on top with the Mil-ships reissue diver! True to heart proportions to the original, that watch is absolutely for the watch enthusiast that loves historical military divers like the blancpain 50 fathoms and tornek rayville.
Not sure why many collectors are writing off Bulova. I get that indeed one could refer to some of thier watches as geared toward the everyday consumer but I feel like they have some good options for thier pricing. Is it because they use miyota movements? Lack of tech advances? Use of mineral crystal? All of the above lol? Interested to know.
When dropping two models of the Mil-ships they prolly shouldve added close to modern lug widths to one of them. The models they dropped looked awesome tho, but they were so extremely underspecced and the quality just does not match the price for the cheap or expensive model.
How about Glashutte Original? Which tier would you include GO in?
I would love to see a similar ranking for Micro brands.... With your knowledge and experience, it would be an informative video.
Carl F Bucherer is a worthy contender. Beautiful finish and in house movements. The Manero Peripheral is dynamite!
John wick wears Carl F Bucherer too in the movies.
I have just tonight discovered CFB because I googled Winstons watch while watching John Wick 2... and I´m just completely in love with the Manero Flyback Black Dial with brown alligator strap - maybe the most stunning timepiece I ever saw 😳😍... I don´t care about prestige or resale value, and if I had the money for one it would probably be my first choice for a daily... such a beauty!
Interesting opinions! Gotta admit I do not agree with one single placing tho 😅 but still liked the video! Keep them coming!
Had to laugh when I saw Moser. I went against a bet it wouldn't be on the list at all, but I know John and Frederico lol, and there it was. Won that bet. I owe John a 🍻.
Yeah, but I’m sure Fed is pissed it wasn’t put top level.
@@GS-vb3zn They'll duke it out - I give it to Fred on strength, but John on endurance.
It was actually hilarious seeing it there …especially knowing how much it’s, erm, pushed by them.
Great video, you should do more content on Breguet. Really interested in the Type XX
The problem with these rankings is that they are based on what? Snob value, quality, value for the price, the best quality? There are so many different criteria and reasons why folks buy watches (Patek for snob value, Casio for price and functionality, a Russian watch for funky originality, etc.) that they are lumping vastly different types of watches in the same boat and then trying to judge them all against each other. It is like trying to say whether a Honda Civic is better or a Bentley? For some the former is the perfect choice (price, reliability, quality and durability), while for others the latter (prestige, price and luxury) are what is most important. Maybe they should have 2 separate criteria on the graph or break these comparisons down into different qualities with different graphs.
Where would you put Seiko ? Glashutte Original ?
seiko is very hard to place anywhere. they have 100 euro entry level watches, but also 5000 euro watches
@@BufanMuayThai glashutte is one of the best value for money watch brand. only a very few come very close.
Hey John, great content as usual.. I would like you to comment on independent manufacturers like Kari Voutilainen, Daniel Roth, Harry Winston, and Gerald Charles please.
Where's RADO? Very very popular in middle east and Asia.
Also Grand Seiko above Omega? Omega > GS and Rolex.
Have a Omega Seamaster not better than my Selko LX titanium spring drive in quality.
And that's not even a Grand seiko it's a Seiko..Look it up the Seiko LX spring drive on UA-cam
Ah i love a good tier list. I was thinking about this yesterday
I love a good tier list, this is not a good one 😅
I think you should rank the brands by popularity/demand, price retention, etc... from a dealer's prospective instead of a collector's prospective. I cannot grasp why Mont Blanc being rank so high as I believe the number of Mont Blanc sold at Del Ray is nowhere near Cartier or Omega.
It seems to me that ranking follows by the trends in auction or pre-owned market. Does Richemont ever influence JLC or VC watches' quality? What evidence makes AP better than VC or JLC? I think is its popularity in pre-owned market..
I'm curious what tier you would have placed Laurent Ferrier and Parmigiani Fleurier. PF in particular is stepply discounted high horology.
Fun list. I’m sure that I could argue certain brands being higher or lower but I generally agree with your choices. You missed too many non main stream but important watches (ignored German watches except Lange), but these lists need more objective criteria.
-History (long or short)
-Haute horology (level of watchmaking expertise)
-Volume of watches sold (true measure of popularity vs anecdotes)
-Innovations/additions to historical horology,
-Level of finishing (add points for anglage, or beveling)
-Strength of brand (use popular measurement tools already out there)
-Auction results
-Tier micro brands separately from bigger brands.
-Etc
Following this path will at least lessen the opinionated attacks on brands (and commenters) and bring the watch discussion up a notch or two. And remember that some brands just are not comparable. Tudor and Patek on the same list. Silly to even tier them against each other. Tiers within categories would be more beneficial.
Is breguet best buy for my first watch? Or should I go with rolex?
I admire you for taking this on, a solid attmept. I'm not sure the criteria was firmly established.
I'm assuming he's speaking from a watch dealer perspective so maybe it's just based on what sells on Delray
Question is what is that gold color on the right side of your glasses? Is it a camera?
Hermès is getting some good press for their watches. Worth adding to the “OK” list for fashion brands?
What tier would you place Orient watches in? Do you personally like them?
What about Nomos? It it same tier as Omega or lower?
Disagree on Baume and Mercier position. It should be at level D before Longines at least (imo). Anyway it’s all subjective. Thanks for sharing your vision.
Hello, just wondering where you would put Glauchutte and Carl F. Bucherer?
Sad to see Omega on a lower tier vis a vis Rolex. As a watchmaker and on the technical mastery, it's actually the other way. I can't find a single Rolex model that is t highly overrated. Good simple watches sure, but way way overhyped
But the watch community seems to keep adding fuel to the Rolex hype.
Stop hating on Rolex. There's a good reason they are King of luxury watches. Do your homework my friend. Omega has shareholders and part of a conglomerate. Rolex is owned by no one and never will be!!!!!
@@samuelburton5576 Your analogy makes zero sense to the points I made. I could care two hoots who or what they're part of. Rolex is a good watchmaker overhyped for what it is. That's a fact. And "King of luxury watch" sounds like a fanboy rant
Agree
@@AkshayRSingh who is the number one watch maker in the World? Who has the most name recognition in the World? Who has the highest value retention with all of their range of watches????? Only the one and only King of watches...... Drum roll....ROLEX!!!!!
Where’s Sinn? If you’re going to have Tissot, Tag, Hamilton, Longines and Oris (f#*king Oris?!) on this list, then you have to have Sinn. Sinn is the new Rolex or to be precise about it, Sinn is to 2021 what Rolex was to the 1960s- beautifully designed and executed tool watches.
why the hate on oris? a truly independent company, now producing their own movement, that actually takes some chances.
Oris longines heuer and Hamilton are miles ahead of sinn
@@jh-il5sb Why? Price. Overpriced for what you were getting. I feel they are a terrible value. I can’t speak to their new in-house movement but paying $3000 for a watch with an ETA 2824 seemed ridiculous when I compared it to my just as well-built, if not better IMO, Christopher Ward with the same movement inside for $1200 (and in all honesty the bracelet on the Ward was far superior to what was on my Oris). The big crown pilot has always been tremendously overrated to me. Way better pilots watches out there for less money… Sinn comes to mind.
@@GS-vb3zn "paying $3000 for a watch with an eta seems ridiculous"
bro, have you looked at the sinn catalog? Because there are ALOT of $3000+ eta/selitta/valjoux powered watches in it. At least oris put in the effort to make an in-house movement.
Would be interested to see more focus on Mont Blanc. They have some duds (Time Walker) but also some other interesting pieces.
I got $400 off retail for my “Great White” Seamaster a couple weeks ago. Glad I got it when I did!
yeah the discounts are drying out
Your gonna get a lot of push back on this one John P.. 🤣
no love for mb&f or uwerk. where would they fall on your list?
Salesman ranking needs adjustments. Rolex and Tudor sell well so they get overestimated. Breguet and VC don’t and thus get underestimated. Zee Germans are absent except for the top one (which does belong in A). The direction brands are moving in is also a factor because no list is permanent. Another aspect not covered is the spectrum of coverage of a brand. For example, Omega covers a greater range from entry to higher level than Rolex (because Rolex leaves the entry to Tudor). Other example A. Lange & Sohn has a tighter range than Patek which offers less spectacular entry models that are further away from their high end (the “finishing” gap is less for the German brand).
missing debethune beside fp journe, zenith is up there with JLC now, IWC is definitely up there with Omega at the very least lol...
Where do you place Parmigiani Fleurier, GO, Czapek and UrbanJurgensen?
This tier list was basically what an average watch person who lives on the forums views the brands minus a few changes. There’s no way an Oris is same tier as a breitling or IWC. Especially the changes Breitling has made in downsizing, refining, and added higher complications to their collections. Longines has subpar quality compared to other brands within their own price range and it’s higher than tag? 😂. Tudor is also not on the same level of finishing and quality as some of the brands under it. Either way it’s your perspective and I respect it. Majority of the watch consumers actually view the tier list completely different compared to how the enthusiasts perceive them, which is a very small group in the market.
My breitling gets compliments left to right.
My tag heuer gets compliments, mostly from women.
My rolex barely gets noticed. When anyone sees it, they think its a seiko.
I want to learn about watches and what to wear and what not too. Where would I learn this
Very good list great video 📹
So where will you put seiko?
What can you say about Concord mariner swiss whqtsch brand ?
I'm sure that John P could go on for a lot longer than he has, whether you agree or disagree with him. There are so many factors involved in a list like this and the fact that John P barely had time to breathe while he was talking is proof enough for me.
Its called Dealer Bias
Thanks! It would be a 2 hour video if I covered every brand in existence.
@@JohnPWatches never underestimates people's ability to get butthurt over a youtuber's opinions about things as trivial as these bobbles we love...
No one forced him to make a list. When you spend that much time and effort in this, why not making it better / how rankings should be done.
He was running out of breath trying to explain away this goofy list that makes zero sense whatsoever....
Great video. Surprised Brietling is so low
Not sure about Casio being higher than most of those e tier brands, unless you mean the Oceanus models.
Hey John, where would you rank Glashuette Original? B tier??
Great video
Interesting video, what about Nomos?
I’d love to know your opinion on Rado?
The video was entertaining but I came here for the salty comments and was not disappointed. The Omega fanboys especially delivered as usual 😂
Doesnt JLC make some of the movements for AP?
John, where would you put Parmigiani Fleurier on your list?
You actually ranked Casio higher than Tag Heuer????....now isn't that the biggest slap in the faces of all Tag Heuer enthusiasts???
Yes. And they NEED a slap in the face!
Maybe a ranking within average price per watches list. A1-2-3-4 B 1-2-3-4 and C1-2-3-4 and D… putting Oris agains patek is Apple/Oranjes. If the buyer has 5K to spend which brands tank 1-2-3 etc?
Would be curious where Ming and Baltic fit if they’re big enough.
i would personally swap AP with Vach, Cartier with grand saiko and rolex with zenith. but ya very good list
Is the first thumb dowm that I have made to one of your videos. So many crazy comparations. Iwc and Panerai on the same level of Casio and Hublot? Come on Jhon…
Rolex too high and Vacheron too low.
Maybe do your own video with where you'd rank brands, and why. 🙄
@@MrJungle123 Can’t be arsed.
@@jamessymington2466 I don't really care dude.
@@MrJungle123 Neither do I!
@@jamessymington2466 good. Glad you could clarify. Now off you pop.
Bvlgari out there setting records for thin complications and it's D? Beside Oris and Hamilton?
I’ve had my eye on a Montblanc Geosphere for a while.
Very cool watch
Thanks for the video. I mostly agree except for Casio. It is not a luxury watch and g shock shouldn't help the ranking because it is battery operated. How can it be ranked above Tag Heuer?
Where would you put Glashutte Original?
I believe vacheron should be on tier A
I'm surprised that IWC was so far down on the list. I would have put them at the same level as Omega etc.
they loose with movement and case finishing, but it is a very very nice watch nonetheless
I’m even more surprised that Mont Blanc is above them :/
@@iaido01 have you seen the open case backs on the new pilots? Or their perpetual calendar or timezoner movements?
@@thegabal1484 yes and yes, but the perpetual of IWC is very very high end and very well finished, i was talking about the "lower" end IWC compared to the "lower" end omega's. i think movement finishing is same as omega, but the movement techniques and case finishing is a small step above
@@iaido01 I honestly think Omegas are above anyone else with what they offer for the money. Their movement finishing is $5-7.5k more than what they’re charging.
Where would you rank Ball Watch Co.? I am surprised this brand did not make the list.
Hasn't anyone realise that Tudor's Shield logo serves as defence for the Rolex brand in terms on market segment and positioning?
i liked the mentioned brand mont blanc, but I missed glashuette original
VC should be top without any doubt. Royal Oak getting Instagram play, non watch people with nice pockets and I'm sure you can sell it for premium, pretty hyped right now. MontBlanc is a sleeper in my opinion, they are producing some real nice watches.
What are thoughts about Bovet and Greubel Forsey?
Both are very high up
@@JohnPWatches Thanks for your reply. Where would they have been placed on your list?
How is Seiko not on the list?
Seiko is plebe level. Grand Seiko, ok.
Awesome watch talk... break it down! I'd take AP a step down because they are 1 hit wonder. Breguet deserves more respect... move them up one!
Always love your videos. Now the rant 😎. Cartier over breitling and iwc, looks like your list is influenced by the discount from list or hotness to sell as Secondhand seller? Breitling has more brand recognition then Richard mille, so how did you get to this list??
Your thoughts on Ebel?
Does Frank Muller
Still have anything to do with the company ?
How he pronounces the names just hurt 😂
Everyone has their own opinion. Most people would just completely disagree with this list