I'm not usually one for "reaction" style content. It's far too sensationalist, and nuance often gets thrown out of the window. After all, outrage sells.
Apart from when they don't try and bring it up to date. Then we're moaning about that. And when they add a new feature. We moan about that. And when they talk about something they're really proud of, like the FIFAe World Cup. We moan about that. And when someone sneezes. And when the sun rises. And so on...
ok they are trying to improve but why are they releasing half baked product, you will say be patient ok i will be, SI should then have skipped releasing game this year and took 1 year for development. It's their greed that had done this, how much have FM changed from last decade ? it's not like they are giving fm25 for free or at a less price so that we should be understanding.
@@raiyyan8514It's practically a tradition that they will give previous year FM for free on Epic. Aside from that if you know about sports licensing and it fees, it's understandable why most sports games agressively monetize every single things. FIFA used to demand an annual $150m just for licensing right. Those annual fee is also the reason why EA, 2K, or SI need to release yearly just to broke even. By that standard SI is way too generous. They don't even have microtransaction at all.
I love your take(s) on this, thanks for making the video. Also a lot more scatological references then I was expecting, if I'm honest 🤣 I'm really looking forward to FM25, and I think excitement will start to ramp up again once we get a look at how the Unity engine performs (if I'm honest, I'm just curious how it impacts player roles 😉). And I appreciate the fact that they're reworking international management... it's not fair for me to be disappointed that they hadn't done anything to change it in recent iterations, but also be upset when they say they're removing it to make it better.
I had to cut that bit down, too. Too many poop synonyms 🤣. Although I'm rather pleased with the phrase "scatalogical tang". Visceral stuff. I really don't want to wait any longer to see screenshots/footage. Despite never being a fan of long hype periods (by the time Humankind was released, my enthusiasm had long subsided), I do want to have something to get excited about. But I also appreciate it's an annual release. It probably makes sense to have a very clearly defined hype window, which appears to be 8 weeks. The thing that encourages me most is they're actively avoiding the mistakes of their current system. Don't rebuild the botch. Pull it apart, design from the ground up. Don't rush.
Thank you for making this video. I felt like I've gone crazy watching people already write off FM25 based on cut features they've never used anyway. Besides touchline shouts, I doubt most of those complaining can't remember the last time they looked at the chalkboard or a player's weight, and if the developers say the features are cut because they wouldn't be able to make it to a desired quality, we as a community have to trust that they're doing what's best for the game within the constraints they have. It makes no sense to assume they'd harm their own product at the end of the day, serving absolutely no one.
I understand people's frustration. More is good. Less is bad. Therefore, removing features is the worst thing that ever happened. But I'd be far more concerned if everything from FM24 ended up in FM25. That would probably mean that everything was ported over in the exact same state. And that would come with the same issues, and limitations for the future. Making the change of engine completely pointless.
The issue is not "cutting" stuff but more the forced allocation of resources into something that is not going to be used just 'cause there's "social" pressure, outside FM's player base, to have a certain thing on the game which makes them cut other stuff that would be better to players. It doesn't mean they're not doing a good job with the transition to Unity but one can argue that, perhaps, their focus is slightly off, mainly due to the justification of writing off international football, for example, for having few players actually using the feature when that lack of use is coming from the poor quality of the feature itself so far.
I think people are mad because of the perceived value of the game. Everything we have hard from about it so far is negative and as a consumer you don't really care how difficult a product is to make, you just expect it to work so when you hear all the things that are being removed from the game and you will presumably have to pay the same price for the game you will start to question the value proposition of the game regardless of the quality of the content that is still there. Peope may eventually come around when they announce the bew features but there is no denying that optic wise its not looking good at the momebt
@@tjammacedo This is a very simplified reduction of the decision, but for something like Draft Mode, the decision may have been between: - Incorporating it as is, and being unable to have the revamped/fixed version until FM27, or - Removing it, and having the revamped/fixed version midway through FM25. Neither decision will be popular. And that will apply to a lot of features. If they cannot "fix" it within the current architecture (hence the need to move to a new engine), including it in it's current state will impact how quickly they are able to properly revamp it.
@@Jur1_00 as I covered in the last minute or so of the video, if you're going to deliver bad news, anything you use to try and soften the blow will just be tainted by the bad news. It's a bold strategy. Maybe not the right one. Because it creates an environment of doom-and-gloom. But, when it comes to the game announcement and the subsequent roll out period, maybe it will prove the right decision to leave all the "good stuff" until then. Only time will tell.
A sensible, moderate reponse in 2024? What is this, where is all the overreaction??😅 Thanks for making this. I feel the whole FM world has gone mad because of a couple of announcements that don't even affect them.
Look, I get it. Something like the removal of game modes, or International management is going to impact some people. Nobody* buys the game purely for those things, though. But there's a lot that needs to be improved. Which SI knows. And that's part of the reason they're changing engine. Because years of adding layer upon layer to the game take their toll. And eventually you get to a point where fixing something becomes close to impossible. And when you make that engine change, you don't want to build it the exact same way, as you'll end up in the same position. Sometimes that necessitates removing things, so you can build the foundations right first. *I don't know that. There are probably a handful of people who only play Draft mode. Or only play as national teams.
UA-camr, board gamer, football manager player and a guitarist/basist? You are about to achieve perfection! Tottally agree with you mate! PS: So long about not releasing a video this week...
A game being delayed doesn't mean anything,it can still come out underdeveloped, i.e cyberpunk..no man's sky.That is what scares ,almost everytime a developer removes features and delays the game ,the game always comes out buggy and undercooked, maybe this is because i usually play games made by big corporations/triple A games.My skepticism stems from me seeing publishers do this before..I'm just going from "im going to pre order it" to "I'll wait for the reviews" or "I'll buy it at a cut price around Christmas "
That's a healthy reaction. It's perfectly reasonable to wait and see, and whilst I haven't double checked, I'm pretty sure there's always a demo mode available for every edition so you can try before you buy.
Gotta commend you on the effort you've put into making this video. I don't agree with everything said but I definitely respect your attention to detail, your creativity and how you've explained your ideas. This shows everyone in the FM scene that yes, you can make a video that does not simply entail reading someone else's words.
Appreciated 🙏 I don't tend to do "reactions", as I prefer content that tries to add value (whether it does or not is subjective) - be that entertainining, informative or both. In this instance, however, I believe my professional experience can add that value (lord knows my singing ability doesn't 😂).
Oh no, that's not good 🤣 Although, genuinely, I should probably mention that I don't expect to do much in the way of reaction/news. I'm not one for kneejerk and drama (maybe I shouldn't have given all the anti-woke brigade clown avatars), but given my professional background, I felt I had something that could actually add to this discussion.
When a new cycle comes, it's to be expected that the first versions probably won't be as satisfying, since there's a lot to add and the whole thing of leaving the comfort zone. I remember not being a fan of the transition from 12 to 13 (in part because I was a noob and 13 seemed harder 😅), which was a huge turn, but in the end these last titles ended up great.
Ironically, FM13 was probably the one I had the most hours in before FM21. Although that has more to do with circumstance (more free time) than anything else. Change is scary. But also necessary. One of the biggest drivers for changing to Unity is that they've reached their limit with their current in-house engine. There are things they can't improve because the architecture just doesn't allow it. Taking that step back, to make sure the foundations are there to make those future improvements, is a good thing. And far more beneficial to the game both in the short and long term. They can make sure that the core features aren't just present, but no longer constrained by the weird spaghetti code that was necessary for the broken features to be layered on top.
Great takes as always! As a game developer, usage of the word "removal" is wrong since SI is moving to a new engine. While they can always use the older code and implement a translation layer for Unity, I'm sure they are just rewriting or manually translating most of the game. So them deciding not to implement or delay some features are a good thing for us players. They could've just decided to release a half baked game, which 99% of the diehard FM community would buy anyways (look at what EA is doing with FIFA/FC for years). Moving from your own proprietary engine to a new one is hard work, It's not like copying and pasting the code into Unity. Let them work their magic and be patient.
Exactly. Plus the reason they're migrating is ultimately because they've reached capacity with their current system. This is the greatest opportunity they have to address technical debt and remove all the spaghetti code that's been holding things together whilst also holding them back the last few years. It's not "removal", you're right. It's just "not moving". I'll give them the benefit of the doubt here. Changing engines isn't a thing they've done before. Might explain why they've struggled a little when it comes to communications around it!
I'm all for doing it right, streamlining features and iterative updates, something I've wished they would do for years. My only issue is with their pricing/release model. Charging full price every year for what (IMO) is effectively a database update, some engine patches and some new GUI elements for underlying elements has left a sour taste with me. I've always said a more fair model would be a 2 years cycle for full release with a paid database/patch update every other year. But realistically everyone will buy it full price every year as there is no real competition and SI know they can prey on that FOMO from the fans by charging full retail price. If they were calling FM25 an open beta/early access, charging a DLC or early access fee, while they perfected the features they feel are critical to the experience (international management for example) which would arrive later, then I'd be fully on board but offering up what they are essentially admitting is an incomplete product, short of their standards or full vision, at undoubtedly FULL retail price is just typical of what I expect from SI at this point.
Economics is a tricky subject, especially given that we are not privvy to the costs of producing the game. Nor how licences impact their release schedule. From what I know, FM has always been reasonably cheaper than other established annual sports game releases (FIFA/EA, Madden, NBA2k, etc...). Obviously it's hard for a proper comparison, as the football management sim market isn't exactly crammed with great options. It's also difficult for me to comment on "value". Since 2016, I have around 9,000 hours across all FMs (225 hours in FM17 is the lowest, didn't buy FM18). From that perspective, FM has always represented excellent value for me, but understandably everyone's experience is very different. This will always be a personal thing, though.
This is my problem. I decide to throw together a "quick" thoughts on the Dev Update, and it devolves into learning how to play End of the World As We Know It, and making illustrations of Miles. No wonder I can't do more than 1 video a week.
People are way too much over reacting. A lot of people predicted that fm25 is not going to be the finished product when they announced the move to unity engine, so removing unfinished features from current iteration was to be expected. Also, it's not like the end of the world if you don't get fm25, most people don't buy every single edition, fm24 works fine, it's currently free on epic, and if you want latest database you can just download it.
Great video and I think explained what my overall sentiment was of the game regarding stuff like this. I think the reaction of some of the player base on some platforms has been so over the top. It is like they see this removed, this removed, this removed rather than actually reading the reason why they are. All the features they have removed are either not fit for purpose or have been replaced with other things coming into the game and I'm totally fine with them removing them and reworking them because like you said in other words to mine. Why bother re-coding it back into the game if it is gonna just get ripped up anyway. Theirs no point doing it and in some ways, it's actually a waste on resources that they could have been using in other areas so I think the decision they made is very valid and was the best one to take. The whole I'll dub it "Weightgate" has been insane. The weight of the player doesn't matter at all and affects how good of a footballer they are. I think they maybe could have explained their reasoning better or given a better explanation however all feel that people are just complaining for the sake of it as no one cared until they said oh they are removing it, was the same thing with some of the features which were removed too. Feels like people moaning for the sake of it rather than getting the bigger picture. The only concern I had coming out of the development update was that they had complications they didn't expect in the development process this close to release which does have me concerned however I think the delay was the best thing to do as it showed that they wanted to make sure the game was the best version they could rather than rushing it and then it comes out and it is near unplayable because I think that would have been even more damaging than them delaying it altogether. I wouldn't be surprised if It was delayed into December or we don't have any sort of early access or beta this year so they can make sure the game is in a playable state before it gets to the consumer.
The previous announcement on shouts, where it was explained that "they don't work in the way that people thought they do", has been interpreted in many places as "they don't work at all". Reading comprehension is not the internet's strong suit. Subsequently explaining the events that caused them to realise that weight was both inaccurate and irrelevant has now become "weight is being removed because SI have gone woke". It might be possible the game gets delayed further, but I doubt it will be by more than an extra week. By releasing at the end of November they've already pushed into the Christmas market really, so there would've been no harm to announce an even longer delay if there were real concerns that an extra 3 weeks wouldn't be enough. Of course, there's plenty of time still for them to disappoint us again!
@@mustermannfm Totally agree with all this. I think a lot of it comes from the overall change that coming and some people don't like change or handle it in different ways. However, the change was needed as the current way they are making the game can only take you so far so moving to unity opens up a lot of doors for the game to improve. This year for me was always seen as the foundation where you get all the groundwork in place to then build upon over the next few years. In some ways this is 1 step back to then make 2 or 3 steps forwards. Basically had to rebuild the whole game from the ground up and that can take time so a lot of things they wanted to be in the game have had to be cut so they can get the foundations in correctly to then build on it because as soon as you have that foundation the development process is a lot easier and then they will be able to do so much more things in the game and in some ways be able to develop the game faster long term which is only a positive in my eyes.
Good to see a measured and sensible take on the delayed rollout. Good not to weigh in on a lot of the nonsense that’s been spruiked around on player weights. Some people have suddenly found their voice on a non-issue to express their discontent over the inclusion of women’s football . Knuckle draggers.
It did feel like the update tried to put women's football out there as an unnecessary lightning rod. But then I'm sure the blame would go in that direction regardless from the usual suspects.
Better a game that works, and the opposite. Natural. But I would like to see some screenshots from the game before I start singing The futures so bright I gotta wear shadedes. So much is new this time its gonna be a lot to take in. Re- learn. And also play a hard game.
The relearning is something I'm really looking forward to! Football as a game hasn't exactly changed much. So something that makes things fresh is welcome. I, too, would like to see some screenshots/footage. And as risky as I think this approach is, I get it. If a shit sandwich is gonna taste like shit, why not save the bread for later.
The only thing that i will be waiting for in FM25 is Mustermann Iconic 2 SKIN and Mustermann Videos ❤ . The rest will be the same for me . Just a game with new update . But u / ur Vids and ur skin have alrady changed this game for me .
@@mustermannfm dude , that is so bad . Imagen playing FM again without Mustermann Iconic 😔 . However Please reconceder that , even if it came out a litele bit late . I can live with that .
@@tarikat6870 I'm sorry. I explained it in the last skin video. 1) FM is undergoing a big UI change. It is important to experience it properly before assessing if changes are necessary 2) It is highly likely that skinning will need to be learnt from scratch. I do not necessarily have time for that. 3) That is also contingent on whether there will even be access to skinning files
I only have one thing that bothers me. If those removed don't make a difference, why were they there all this time? (weight and height for example). Why don't they simply remove what is useless and leave only what really matters, thus making every analysis carried out important on some level? Why should I look for a tall player for my team if what matters is his jumping and heading? I hope that with this new game they can "fix" these little things. That being said, I think the community caused an uproar over nothing. It's not like it would become unplayable and burn down everything that was built in, I don't know, twenty years.
As explained by one of the researchers on the SI Forums: Well worth mentioning that player weights being included are something that emerged decades ago when clubs tended to provide that information about their players. A relic from one of those points in the late 80's/90's when clubs just couldn't work out what to share about the players. If your club doesn't publish those details (and many don't) then it can be tricky to get that information and relies on either older info from a previous team who did or using the options we had in the background which allowed a more generic description. It's a relic. A thing that was included because people thought it needed to be included. Even though attributes are the only thing that matters. (And researchers supply a "Build Description" when an accurate weight isn't available, which informs players being rendered in 3d). Height does have a little bit of impact. Whilst Jumping Reach is all that matters in terms of deciding the highest point a player can reach, a player's height determines whether the player needs to jump in the first place. But why is it being removed now? Like a lot of relics that might exist in the game. It's there because it's always been there. And now that they are assessing each and every aspect, they'll notice things that are essentially redundant. So in response to "Why don't they simply remove what is useless and leave only what really matters, thus making every analysis carried out important on some level?" That's exactly what they're doing. They're removing something that has zero impact for us, the players. But it remains under the hood so the game can model players.
@@mustermannfmwhy not actually say why they are removing the weight. Simply because women and feminists would complain and yet it was always fine for males to have their weight and height shown even when it was inaccurate. You can make a case about weight not being important but then a) why remove it and b) plenty of things like player photos aren't important in the same way.
Don't we all. That said, I even enjoyed CM4, the supposed massive disaster. Probably as I didn't have much internet access, I was blissfully unaware of the uproar. Sure, it wasn't the best, but still fun.
Hi Mustermann, i recently downloaded your fm24 skin but the Pizza charts arent showing, they are just stuck in the middle without any statistics. Do you have any Idea how to fix this?
I saw a lot of comments in IG section about wokeness , I don't see it personally I even skipped FM24 all together because I was looking forward to addition of women's football but create a club and international being removed bugs me. I do use create a club and I always manage national team as well , when he explains it that touchline shouts don't really work it kind of makes sense to kick them out I suppose , rest I don't care about.
Anything with a hint of being woke will be called as such in the current environment, people are hyper political and sensitive. It's to be expected now, especially in gaming and entertainment in general, most people want to enjoy themselves and get away from bs.
Ok l get why removing stuff as hardly anyone playscthese modes etc however then you put effort into womens football? After a month from release lets look at the percentage playing womens football eh...less than 1%? Womens football will never ever be a success like mens football its nothingvto with sexism..just women are not as fast..dont have as muchvstanima...arent as strong and way less skillfullvat football. Men and women have strengths andvweaknesses...but football...watching a womens match is so boring lacks so much skill and a counter attack is like watching a slo mo teplay on mens game. ..i imagine it will be as boring in fm. I wont play it and l dont play international mode either. What l do want though is to be a owner manager where l decide when to upgrade stadium and design it...l want to also get sponsorships...design and build club shops and trsining grounfs...imagine a theme park map you design and build and u can clik on a supporter to get feedback..ie shirts tovexpensive etc...
Have you tried We Are Football. That sounds like it's far more what you want. Or you could go use DOSBox and try out Premier Manager or Ultimate Soccer Manager. They all have a focus on things that managers don't do in real life, such as designing stadiums or setting merchandising prices. SI have been very clear that this is not something they intend to add for literally decades. As for Women's football, you don't have to play it. Same as the Gibraltan league. Which has a much lower attendance than the WSL, for example. Opinions on what constitutes "boring" football are entirely personal. I've always found the WSL fun to watch. Certainly more entertaining than, say, the Australian A League. That doesn't mean the A League shouldn't be included or is any less valid. Both are very different from the English Premier League, which I watch the most, not because I think it's the best, but because I have a vested interest.
As explained by one of the researchers on the SI Forums: Well worth mentioning that player weights being included are something that emerged decades ago when clubs tended to provide that information about their players. A relic from one of those points in the late 80's/90's when clubs just couldn't work out what to share about the players. If your club doesn't publish those details (and many don't) then it can be tricky to get that information and relies on either older info from a previous team who did or using the options we had in the background which allowed a more generic description. It's a relic. A thing that was included because people thought it needed to be included. Even though attributes are the only thing that matters. (And researchers supply a "Build Description" when an accurate weight isn't available, which informs players being rendered in 3d). Height does have a little bit of impact. Whilst Jumping Reach is all that matters in terms of deciding the highest point a player can reach, a player's height determines whether the player needs to jump in the first place. But why is it being removed now? Like a lot of relics that might exist in the game. It's there because it's always been there. And now that they are assessing each and every aspect, they'll notice things that are essentially redundant. So in response to "Why don't they simply remove what is useless and leave only what really matters, thus making every analysis carried out important on some level?" That's exactly what they're doing. They're removing something that has zero impact for us, the players. But it remains under the hood so the game can model players.
@@mustermannfm A relic is a deep statement. So many sports do still have weights on players and it's important, very important in some. But just maybe not too much in this type of football. Still the term the diminutiv striker still lean towards not that heavy bloke. A firm sturdy striker 190 kg, 100 kg is something different. I think they still hide the real reasons behind something they found, It's that kind of time we live in. (I like both types of strikers but need to know who's who)
Sure, teams monitor it. They don't make it publically available. The facts are that SI don't model fluctuations. They are not able to reliably get accurate weight data for players, yet alone know where within the fluctuation that data sits. The back-end has "Build Description" to fill in those gaps and inform the 3d render. The game itself does not use it, though. Strength, balance, agility, etc... gives you the indication of whether they are lean or sturdy.
You must be delighted to be freed of the burden of having to buy the game. After putting up with their partnerships with Kick It Out or Special Effect or Safe In Our World. After players took the knee before kick off. After players could come out as gay. After Brexit was simulated with different outcomes. After they allowed female avatars. After they incorporated gender neutral language. After removing Mason Greenwood. All that woke must've been so painful for you to endure.
Ah, Mustermann this is why I like you: you're reasonable. Very hard to find someone on the internet like that these days.
I'm not usually one for "reaction" style content. It's far too sensationalist, and nuance often gets thrown out of the window. After all, outrage sells.
Wake up babe, the voice of reason in the FM community is speaking.
But reason/perspective isn't fun. Let's be angry all the time 🤣
100%!!
It feels like they are really bringing FM up to date, trying to anyway. And here we are moaning that we want a game stuck in the 90’s.
Apart from when they don't try and bring it up to date. Then we're moaning about that. And when they add a new feature. We moan about that. And when they talk about something they're really proud of, like the FIFAe World Cup. We moan about that. And when someone sneezes. And when the sun rises. And so on...
ok they are trying to improve but why are they releasing half baked product, you will say be patient ok i will be, SI should then have skipped releasing game this year and took 1 year for development. It's their greed that had done this, how much have FM changed from last decade ? it's not like they are giving fm25 for free or at a less price so that we should be understanding.
@@raiyyan8514It's practically a tradition that they will give previous year FM for free on Epic.
Aside from that if you know about sports licensing and it fees, it's understandable why most sports games agressively monetize every single things. FIFA used to demand an annual $150m just for licensing right. Those annual fee is also the reason why EA, 2K, or SI need to release yearly just to broke even.
By that standard SI is way too generous. They don't even have microtransaction at all.
Shhhhhh. Don't give them ideas!
I love your take(s) on this, thanks for making the video. Also a lot more scatological references then I was expecting, if I'm honest 🤣 I'm really looking forward to FM25, and I think excitement will start to ramp up again once we get a look at how the Unity engine performs (if I'm honest, I'm just curious how it impacts player roles 😉). And I appreciate the fact that they're reworking international management... it's not fair for me to be disappointed that they hadn't done anything to change it in recent iterations, but also be upset when they say they're removing it to make it better.
I had to cut that bit down, too. Too many poop synonyms 🤣. Although I'm rather pleased with the phrase "scatalogical tang". Visceral stuff.
I really don't want to wait any longer to see screenshots/footage. Despite never being a fan of long hype periods (by the time Humankind was released, my enthusiasm had long subsided), I do want to have something to get excited about. But I also appreciate it's an annual release. It probably makes sense to have a very clearly defined hype window, which appears to be 8 weeks.
The thing that encourages me most is they're actively avoiding the mistakes of their current system. Don't rebuild the botch. Pull it apart, design from the ground up. Don't rush.
Thank you for making this video. I felt like I've gone crazy watching people already write off FM25 based on cut features they've never used anyway. Besides touchline shouts, I doubt most of those complaining can't remember the last time they looked at the chalkboard or a player's weight, and if the developers say the features are cut because they wouldn't be able to make it to a desired quality, we as a community have to trust that they're doing what's best for the game within the constraints they have. It makes no sense to assume they'd harm their own product at the end of the day, serving absolutely no one.
I understand people's frustration. More is good. Less is bad. Therefore, removing features is the worst thing that ever happened.
But I'd be far more concerned if everything from FM24 ended up in FM25. That would probably mean that everything was ported over in the exact same state. And that would come with the same issues, and limitations for the future. Making the change of engine completely pointless.
The issue is not "cutting" stuff but more the forced allocation of resources into something that is not going to be used just 'cause there's "social" pressure, outside FM's player base, to have a certain thing on the game which makes them cut other stuff that would be better to players. It doesn't mean they're not doing a good job with the transition to Unity but one can argue that, perhaps, their focus is slightly off, mainly due to the justification of writing off international football, for example, for having few players actually using the feature when that lack of use is coming from the poor quality of the feature itself so far.
I think people are mad because of the perceived value of the game. Everything we have hard from about it so far is negative and as a consumer you don't really care how difficult a product is to make, you just expect it to work so when you hear all the things that are being removed from the game and you will presumably have to pay the same price for the game you will start to question the value proposition of the game regardless of the quality of the content that is still there. Peope may eventually come around when they announce the bew features but there is no denying that optic wise its not looking good at the momebt
@@tjammacedo This is a very simplified reduction of the decision, but for something like Draft Mode, the decision may have been between:
- Incorporating it as is, and being unable to have the revamped/fixed version until FM27, or
- Removing it, and having the revamped/fixed version midway through FM25.
Neither decision will be popular. And that will apply to a lot of features. If they cannot "fix" it within the current architecture (hence the need to move to a new engine), including it in it's current state will impact how quickly they are able to properly revamp it.
@@Jur1_00 as I covered in the last minute or so of the video, if you're going to deliver bad news, anything you use to try and soften the blow will just be tainted by the bad news.
It's a bold strategy. Maybe not the right one. Because it creates an environment of doom-and-gloom. But, when it comes to the game announcement and the subsequent roll out period, maybe it will prove the right decision to leave all the "good stuff" until then. Only time will tell.
A sensible, moderate reponse in 2024? What is this, where is all the overreaction??😅
Thanks for making this. I feel the whole FM world has gone mad because of a couple of announcements that don't even affect them.
Look, I get it. Something like the removal of game modes, or International management is going to impact some people. Nobody* buys the game purely for those things, though.
But there's a lot that needs to be improved. Which SI knows. And that's part of the reason they're changing engine. Because years of adding layer upon layer to the game take their toll. And eventually you get to a point where fixing something becomes close to impossible. And when you make that engine change, you don't want to build it the exact same way, as you'll end up in the same position. Sometimes that necessitates removing things, so you can build the foundations right first.
*I don't know that. There are probably a handful of people who only play Draft mode. Or only play as national teams.
Appreciate you chiming in with your thoughts on this, Mustermann. Also, the intro? BANGER!
Thank you, dude 🤗
It's a bold (dumb) decision to start a video with a song when I can't sing 😂
UA-camr, board gamer, football manager player and a guitarist/basist? You are about to achieve perfection! Tottally agree with you mate!
PS: So long about not releasing a video this week...
About 5 minutes after I posted that, SI dropped their update 😂
A game being delayed doesn't mean anything,it can still come out underdeveloped, i.e cyberpunk..no man's sky.That is what scares ,almost everytime a developer removes features and delays the game ,the game always comes out buggy and undercooked, maybe this is because i usually play games made by big corporations/triple A games.My skepticism stems from me seeing publishers do this before..I'm just going from "im going to pre order it" to "I'll wait for the reviews" or "I'll buy it at a cut price around Christmas "
That's a healthy reaction. It's perfectly reasonable to wait and see, and whilst I haven't double checked, I'm pretty sure there's always a demo mode available for every edition so you can try before you buy.
Gotta commend you on the effort you've put into making this video. I don't agree with everything said but I definitely respect your attention to detail, your creativity and how you've explained your ideas. This shows everyone in the FM scene that yes, you can make a video that does not simply entail reading someone else's words.
Appreciated 🙏
I don't tend to do "reactions", as I prefer content that tries to add value (whether it does or not is subjective) - be that entertainining, informative or both. In this instance, however, I believe my professional experience can add that value (lord knows my singing ability doesn't 😂).
You're now my new first choice source for FM news 😂
Oh no, that's not good 🤣
Although, genuinely, I should probably mention that I don't expect to do much in the way of reaction/news. I'm not one for kneejerk and drama (maybe I shouldn't have given all the anti-woke brigade clown avatars), but given my professional background, I felt I had something that could actually add to this discussion.
When a new cycle comes, it's to be expected that the first versions probably won't be as satisfying, since there's a lot to add and the whole thing of leaving the comfort zone.
I remember not being a fan of the transition from 12 to 13 (in part because I was a noob and 13 seemed harder 😅), which was a huge turn, but in the end these last titles ended up great.
Ironically, FM13 was probably the one I had the most hours in before FM21. Although that has more to do with circumstance (more free time) than anything else.
Change is scary. But also necessary. One of the biggest drivers for changing to Unity is that they've reached their limit with their current in-house engine. There are things they can't improve because the architecture just doesn't allow it. Taking that step back, to make sure the foundations are there to make those future improvements, is a good thing. And far more beneficial to the game both in the short and long term. They can make sure that the core features aren't just present, but no longer constrained by the weird spaghetti code that was necessary for the broken features to be layered on top.
Great takes as always! As a game developer, usage of the word "removal" is wrong since SI is moving to a new engine. While they can always use the older code and implement a translation layer for Unity, I'm sure they are just rewriting or manually translating most of the game. So them deciding not to implement or delay some features are a good thing for us players. They could've just decided to release a half baked game, which 99% of the diehard FM community would buy anyways (look at what EA is doing with FIFA/FC for years). Moving from your own proprietary engine to a new one is hard work, It's not like copying and pasting the code into Unity. Let them work their magic and be patient.
Exactly. Plus the reason they're migrating is ultimately because they've reached capacity with their current system. This is the greatest opportunity they have to address technical debt and remove all the spaghetti code that's been holding things together whilst also holding them back the last few years.
It's not "removal", you're right. It's just "not moving". I'll give them the benefit of the doubt here. Changing engines isn't a thing they've done before. Might explain why they've struggled a little when it comes to communications around it!
I'm all for doing it right, streamlining features and iterative updates, something I've wished they would do for years. My only issue is with their pricing/release model. Charging full price every year for what (IMO) is effectively a database update, some engine patches and some new GUI elements for underlying elements has left a sour taste with me. I've always said a more fair model would be a 2 years cycle for full release with a paid database/patch update every other year. But realistically everyone will buy it full price every year as there is no real competition and SI know they can prey on that FOMO from the fans by charging full retail price. If they were calling FM25 an open beta/early access, charging a DLC or early access fee, while they perfected the features they feel are critical to the experience (international management for example) which would arrive later, then I'd be fully on board but offering up what they are essentially admitting is an incomplete product, short of their standards or full vision, at undoubtedly FULL retail price is just typical of what I expect from SI at this point.
Economics is a tricky subject, especially given that we are not privvy to the costs of producing the game. Nor how licences impact their release schedule.
From what I know, FM has always been reasonably cheaper than other established annual sports game releases (FIFA/EA, Madden, NBA2k, etc...). Obviously it's hard for a proper comparison, as the football management sim market isn't exactly crammed with great options.
It's also difficult for me to comment on "value". Since 2016, I have around 9,000 hours across all FMs (225 hours in FM17 is the lowest, didn't buy FM18). From that perspective, FM has always represented excellent value for me, but understandably everyone's experience is very different. This will always be a personal thing, though.
Well said, people losing their minds over weight removal was too much xD
If it mattered to them before Wednesday, the forum would be awash with complaints about how useless is it.
the first 20 seconds of this video were absolutely brilliant...the rest was pretty good too
This is my problem. I decide to throw together a "quick" thoughts on the Dev Update, and it devolves into learning how to play End of the World As We Know It, and making illustrations of Miles. No wonder I can't do more than 1 video a week.
People are way too much over reacting. A lot of people predicted that fm25 is not going to be the finished product when they announced the move to unity engine, so removing unfinished features from current iteration was to be expected.
Also, it's not like the end of the world if you don't get fm25, most people don't buy every single edition, fm24 works fine, it's currently free on epic, and if you want latest database you can just download it.
Overreacting is the internet's favourite pasttime.
The master has spoken the man just speaks sense as always 👏
It is boring though. Overreaction is far more fun 😂
@mustermannfm it Is sometimes 😂 but someone needs to be the voice of reason 😂
Every video you put together is absolutely top class 👏👏
Love you Treq!!
The removal of Net Neutrality killed me in 2017. This is just the Ghanaian Pall bearers taking their sweet time at the graveyard...
Jazz funerals are the way forward!
Great video and I think explained what my overall sentiment was of the game regarding stuff like this. I think the reaction of some of the player base on some platforms has been so over the top. It is like they see this removed, this removed, this removed rather than actually reading the reason why they are. All the features they have removed are either not fit for purpose or have been replaced with other things coming into the game and I'm totally fine with them removing them and reworking them because like you said in other words to mine. Why bother re-coding it back into the game if it is gonna just get ripped up anyway. Theirs no point doing it and in some ways, it's actually a waste on resources that they could have been using in other areas so I think the decision they made is very valid and was the best one to take. The whole I'll dub it "Weightgate" has been insane. The weight of the player doesn't matter at all and affects how good of a footballer they are. I think they maybe could have explained their reasoning better or given a better explanation however all feel that people are just complaining for the sake of it as no one cared until they said oh they are removing it, was the same thing with some of the features which were removed too. Feels like people moaning for the sake of it rather than getting the bigger picture. The only concern I had coming out of the development update was that they had complications they didn't expect in the development process this close to release which does have me concerned however I think the delay was the best thing to do as it showed that they wanted to make sure the game was the best version they could rather than rushing it and then it comes out and it is near unplayable because I think that would have been even more damaging than them delaying it altogether. I wouldn't be surprised if It was delayed into December or we don't have any sort of early access or beta this year so they can make sure the game is in a playable state before it gets to the consumer.
The previous announcement on shouts, where it was explained that "they don't work in the way that people thought they do", has been interpreted in many places as "they don't work at all". Reading comprehension is not the internet's strong suit. Subsequently explaining the events that caused them to realise that weight was both inaccurate and irrelevant has now become "weight is being removed because SI have gone woke".
It might be possible the game gets delayed further, but I doubt it will be by more than an extra week. By releasing at the end of November they've already pushed into the Christmas market really, so there would've been no harm to announce an even longer delay if there were real concerns that an extra 3 weeks wouldn't be enough. Of course, there's plenty of time still for them to disappoint us again!
@@mustermannfm Totally agree with all this. I think a lot of it comes from the overall change that coming and some people don't like change or handle it in different ways. However, the change was needed as the current way they are making the game can only take you so far so moving to unity opens up a lot of doors for the game to improve. This year for me was always seen as the foundation where you get all the groundwork in place to then build upon over the next few years. In some ways this is 1 step back to then make 2 or 3 steps forwards. Basically had to rebuild the whole game from the ground up and that can take time so a lot of things they wanted to be in the game have had to be cut so they can get the foundations in correctly to then build on it because as soon as you have that foundation the development process is a lot easier and then they will be able to do so much more things in the game and in some ways be able to develop the game faster long term which is only a positive in my eyes.
Good to see a measured and sensible take on the delayed rollout. Good not to weigh in on a lot of the nonsense that’s been spruiked around on player weights. Some people have suddenly found their voice on a non-issue to express their discontent over the inclusion of women’s football . Knuckle draggers.
It did feel like the update tried to put women's football out there as an unnecessary lightning rod. But then I'm sure the blame would go in that direction regardless from the usual suspects.
Just give them time to make it and not panic 😊
Mustermann posts 🤝we watch
That intro might just be your your Magnum Opus, in fact this whole episode might be with some of those scatalogical breakdowns
It got unhinged pretty damn quickly
Better a game that works, and the opposite. Natural. But I would like to see some screenshots from the game before I start singing The futures so bright I gotta wear shadedes. So much is new this time its gonna be a lot to take in. Re- learn. And also play a hard game.
The relearning is something I'm really looking forward to! Football as a game hasn't exactly changed much. So something that makes things fresh is welcome.
I, too, would like to see some screenshots/footage. And as risky as I think this approach is, I get it. If a shit sandwich is gonna taste like shit, why not save the bread for later.
The only thing that i will be waiting for in FM25 is Mustermann Iconic 2 SKIN and Mustermann Videos ❤ . The rest will be the same for me . Just a game with new update . But u / ur Vids and ur skin have alrady changed this game for me .
I'm sorry, dude. There still wont be a Mustermann skin next year. But there will definitely be videos!
@@mustermannfm dude , that is so bad . Imagen playing FM again without Mustermann Iconic 😔 .
However Please reconceder that , even if it came out a litele bit late . I can live with that .
@@tarikat6870 I'm sorry. I explained it in the last skin video.
1) FM is undergoing a big UI change. It is important to experience it properly before assessing if changes are necessary
2) It is highly likely that skinning will need to be learnt from scratch. I do not necessarily have time for that.
3) That is also contingent on whether there will even be access to skinning files
I only have one thing that bothers me. If those removed don't make a difference, why were they there all this time? (weight and height for example). Why don't they simply remove what is useless and leave only what really matters, thus making every analysis carried out important on some level?
Why should I look for a tall player for my team if what matters is his jumping and heading?
I hope that with this new game they can "fix" these little things.
That being said, I think the community caused an uproar over nothing. It's not like it would become unplayable and burn down everything that was built in, I don't know, twenty years.
As explained by one of the researchers on the SI Forums:
Well worth mentioning that player weights being included are something that emerged decades ago when clubs tended to provide that information about their players. A relic from one of those points in the late 80's/90's when clubs just couldn't work out what to share about the players. If your club doesn't publish those details (and many don't) then it can be tricky to get that information and relies on either older info from a previous team who did or using the options we had in the background which allowed a more generic description.
It's a relic. A thing that was included because people thought it needed to be included. Even though attributes are the only thing that matters. (And researchers supply a "Build Description" when an accurate weight isn't available, which informs players being rendered in 3d). Height does have a little bit of impact. Whilst Jumping Reach is all that matters in terms of deciding the highest point a player can reach, a player's height determines whether the player needs to jump in the first place.
But why is it being removed now? Like a lot of relics that might exist in the game. It's there because it's always been there. And now that they are assessing each and every aspect, they'll notice things that are essentially redundant. So in response to "Why don't they simply remove what is useless and leave only what really matters, thus making every analysis carried out important on some level?" That's exactly what they're doing. They're removing something that has zero impact for us, the players. But it remains under the hood so the game can model players.
@@mustermannfmwhy not actually say why they are removing the weight. Simply because women and feminists would complain and yet it was always fine for males to have their weight and height shown even when it was inaccurate. You can make a case about weight not being important but then a) why remove it and b) plenty of things like player photos aren't important in the same way.
To summarise, people don't like change.
But, but Mr MustermannFM, why bring reason in to this? Now I can't be unreasonably angry at things that don't deserve being unreasonably angry about.
Outrage is fun!
well said
Superb video. Agree with every word. For once 😛
Oh no, that's not allowed. This is the internet. People can't agree.
@@mustermannfm in that case, you are a who bothers . Many thanks.
I just want a good game.
Don't we all. That said, I even enjoyed CM4, the supposed massive disaster. Probably as I didn't have much internet access, I was blissfully unaware of the uproar. Sure, it wasn't the best, but still fun.
People arguing about FM25:
Me, just got my first W on FM24:
I sometimes would like to see the alternative universe without the internet. I wonder how much outrage there would be without the echo effect.
Championship Manager 4 redux................................. 😎😎
Controversial opinion. CM4 was fine. It wasn't great, but I could still play it and have fun. CM03/04, however, was amazing.
Hi Mustermann, i recently downloaded your fm24 skin but the Pizza charts arent showing, they are just stuck in the middle without any statistics. Do you have any Idea how to fix this?
Have you played any competitive games? Pizza charts can't populate unless there's performance data for that season.
@@mustermannfmahh ok, that makes sense thank you
It's woke, it's woke it's woke
Yes random internet person, everything is woke
You know what else is woke? Reading comprehension.
@@mustermannfm you learn to read at schools and from your family, and they are both woke!
I saw a lot of comments in IG section about wokeness , I don't see it personally I even skipped FM24 all together because I was looking forward to addition of women's football but create a club and international being removed bugs me. I do use create a club and I always manage national team as well , when he explains it that touchline shouts don't really work it kind of makes sense to kick them out I suppose , rest I don't care about.
Are you excited by the possibility that international football will come back, in their words, as a more "feature-rich" experience?
Anything with a hint of being woke will be called as such in the current environment, people are hyper political and sensitive. It's to be expected now, especially in gaming and entertainment in general, most people want to enjoy themselves and get away from bs.
imgur.com/a/n3M4ZOh
It is woke though, they started in 24 with such things as ‘chairperson’ and I for one won’t be buying 25
@@bennvenables1028 good. go elsewhere then, dickhead.
Mustermann my dude, much love! For you appear to be based to the very core. @@mustermannfm
@@mustermannfm I don't agree, although being a dhead I have had my moments 😄
Ok l get why removing stuff as hardly anyone playscthese modes etc however then you put effort into womens football? After a month from release lets look at the percentage playing womens football eh...less than 1%? Womens football will never ever be a success like mens football its nothingvto with sexism..just women are not as fast..dont have as muchvstanima...arent as strong and way less skillfullvat football. Men and women have strengths andvweaknesses...but football...watching a womens match is so boring lacks so much skill and a counter attack is like watching a slo mo teplay on mens game. ..i imagine it will be as boring in fm. I wont play it and l dont play international mode either. What l do want though is to be a owner manager where l decide when to upgrade stadium and design it...l want to also get sponsorships...design and build club shops and trsining grounfs...imagine a theme park map you design and build and u can clik on a supporter to get feedback..ie shirts tovexpensive etc...
Have you tried We Are Football. That sounds like it's far more what you want. Or you could go use DOSBox and try out Premier Manager or Ultimate Soccer Manager. They all have a focus on things that managers don't do in real life, such as designing stadiums or setting merchandising prices. SI have been very clear that this is not something they intend to add for literally decades.
As for Women's football, you don't have to play it. Same as the Gibraltan league. Which has a much lower attendance than the WSL, for example. Opinions on what constitutes "boring" football are entirely personal. I've always found the WSL fun to watch. Certainly more entertaining than, say, the Australian A League. That doesn't mean the A League shouldn't be included or is any less valid. Both are very different from the English Premier League, which I watch the most, not because I think it's the best, but because I have a vested interest.
I bet weight is taken out because women football is in. We all know that weight is perhaps more sensitive for women, right.
As explained by one of the researchers on the SI Forums:
Well worth mentioning that player weights being included are something that emerged decades ago when clubs tended to provide that information about their players. A relic from one of those points in the late 80's/90's when clubs just couldn't work out what to share about the players. If your club doesn't publish those details (and many don't) then it can be tricky to get that information and relies on either older info from a previous team who did or using the options we had in the background which allowed a more generic description.
It's a relic. A thing that was included because people thought it needed to be included. Even though attributes are the only thing that matters. (And researchers supply a "Build Description" when an accurate weight isn't available, which informs players being rendered in 3d). Height does have a little bit of impact. Whilst Jumping Reach is all that matters in terms of deciding the highest point a player can reach, a player's height determines whether the player needs to jump in the first place.
But why is it being removed now? Like a lot of relics that might exist in the game. It's there because it's always been there. And now that they are assessing each and every aspect, they'll notice things that are essentially redundant. So in response to "Why don't they simply remove what is useless and leave only what really matters, thus making every analysis carried out important on some level?" That's exactly what they're doing. They're removing something that has zero impact for us, the players. But it remains under the hood so the game can model players.
@@mustermannfm A relic is a deep statement. So many sports do still have weights on players and it's important, very important in some. But just maybe not too much in this type of football. Still the term the diminutiv striker still lean towards not that heavy bloke. A firm sturdy striker 190 kg, 100 kg is something different. I think they still hide the real reasons behind something they found, It's that kind of time we live in. (I like both types of strikers but need to know who's who)
Sure, teams monitor it. They don't make it publically available. The facts are that SI don't model fluctuations. They are not able to reliably get accurate weight data for players, yet alone know where within the fluctuation that data sits. The back-end has "Build Description" to fill in those gaps and inform the 3d render. The game itself does not use it, though. Strength, balance, agility, etc... gives you the indication of whether they are lean or sturdy.
@@mustermannfm True, and that I see even Transfermarkt these days got no weights on the players. We live in a new era I guess.
Went woke and fucked it. Won't be buying it and I haven't missed a FM since it changed from football manager
You must be delighted to be freed of the burden of having to buy the game. After putting up with their partnerships with Kick It Out or Special Effect or Safe In Our World. After players took the knee before kick off. After players could come out as gay. After Brexit was simulated with different outcomes. After they allowed female avatars. After they incorporated gender neutral language. After removing Mason Greenwood. All that woke must've been so painful for you to endure.