Notice how the question makes him uncomfortable? It's subtle but he really doesn't want to answer it. It's always interesting to see episodes again with the knowledge of the real significance of things that seem like only minor details at the time.
A great season finale for Season 3, "Z'ha'dum" is a great story, Captain John Sheridan's wife brings him to Z'ha'dum and learns the truth about the war between the Shadows and Vorlons. The late Jeff Corey is superb as the old man Justin and Melissa Gilbert is awesome as Anna Sheridan, who in real life is Bruce Boxleitner's wife.
Justin's reply is beautiful. Who decides what the hemline will be? No one, it is due to cultural evolution. Just as evolution is the answer to that question so Justin is a part of the evolutionary process ... a very Shadow like stance to take. It also avoids answering the Vorlon question. Also interesting is that if you ask the Vorlons the Shadow question they say, "Don't ask that question?" whereas the Shadows, in their sneaky way, just evade the question.
+UteChewb JMS points out in the commentary that the Shadows don't react well to the "who are you" question. Justin prefers to define himself by what he does and wants.
The Vorlon's always asked "Who are you? The Shadow's always asked "What do you want? " Sheridan at that point in time was allied with Kosh and the Vorlon's.
Jeff Corey was fantastic as "Justin". Who knew there could be someone even more creepy than Morden? They did a great job with the color scheme and decoration. Everything about that place said "evil". I wish we could have seen "Vorlon" like we got to see Zahadum.
Although i appreciate this scene i still find it a little pity that they didn't find a way to make Sheridan's escape from the room more "realistic". I mean The Shadows are a million years old species. Surely they wouldn't let someone escape so easily? [In my opinion Sheridan was only able to escape because of a piece of a Vorlon inside him.]
@axa8791 Good point, and one I had completely missed! Sheridan asked Justin the Vorlon question, not the Shadow question. That should have tipped old Justin off!
Handsome guy you make Devil's deals with, reprogrammed former wife and evil grandpa...all meeting in a Crate and Barrel showroom... One thing I find so odd about the Shadows is that their philosophy is about evolution through conflict. But there is no real conflict amongst *them*, or their servants! Indeed, they all act in perfect synchronicity to a common plan. Everyone fulfills their role. Heck, even their *interior decor* favors clean lines and implies *order*! There is no real *chaos*! That's why Justin had no trouble answering the question "Who are you?" beyond his annoyance that it was the Vorlon question. Was he asked "What do you want?", only to answer: 2,000 sq ft and an unlimited credit account at Crate and Barrel?
@HarPlayer uhm, no, he was simply "the middle man", as per canon he was Sheridan's counterpart, the ominous character referred to in the creepy "the man in the middle is searching for you" visions Sheridan had. the shadows are still the masters, but they prefer to have others do the menial tasks such as pilot ships or coordinate battle plans.
The shadows philosophy is what do you want? they do not look at the question of who are you, because for them, its not the persons knowledge of self, or their own identity they focus, they focus on of their own aquisition of chaos, to promote in their views growth and evolution, but they do not realize or overlook without knoweldge of self, or discovery then the rest of material pursuits has not merit without knowing the question of who you are, so when asked they fall back to what they perform.
Vorlons and shadows are 2 sides of the same coin but they define things differently. Vorlons ask Who are you As a definition of who they r as a an entity and how U contribute ur identity in performing things towards self enlightenment to help others. The shadows Who r u question is not of identifying oneself, but the measurement in the tasks they perform is the identity of that person.
I just noticed the door he tries to go into first is about 3 steps from the one he goes into... 0:58 then look at the size of the room he goes into Time lord technology XD
He wasn't really that important in the scheme of things. His only role was to turn Sheridan to the Shadows, and we all know that turned out. He would have been baggage if he were held over.
Funny part of B5 is the dialogue with Edgars where he points out that Russia starts a war in 2013. Funny how a TV show can flat out predict someone will be framed for wanting to start a war 10 years before it happens.
Star Trek: Deep Space 9 was plagiarized from Babylon 5. (Just as Lost in Space was plagiarized from the classic Star Trek) JMS pitched his idea to Paramount, which then rejected it. Shortly later, they came out with ST: DS9. Majel Barrett-Roddenberry even admitted it at one point. After the demise of Star Trek: The Next Generation, the Trekkers hoped that DS9 would take over the reigns as the leader of the sci-fi genre. But that didnt happen, because Babylon 5 blew it away.
By asking "Who are you?" Sheridan subtley told them he wouldn't help the Shadows. It was a sign of alignment with the Vorlons.
Sheridan certainly asks the question like a Vorlon, can't believe i never realised that before now.
"Who are you?"
"It doesn't matter who we are. What matters is our plan!"
Mark Twain, agent of the Shadows.
I adore the way he dodges that question so elegantly and never, ever quite answers it.
Notice how the question makes him uncomfortable? It's subtle but he really doesn't want to answer it. It's always interesting to see episodes again with the knowledge of the real significance of things that seem like only minor details at the time.
“Sovereign is he who decides on the exception” - Carl Schmitt, 'Political Theology'
A great season finale for Season 3, "Z'ha'dum" is a great story, Captain John Sheridan's wife brings him to Z'ha'dum and learns the truth about the war between the Shadows and Vorlons. The late Jeff Corey is superb as the old man Justin and Melissa Gilbert is awesome as Anna Sheridan, who in real life is Bruce Boxleitner's wife.
Justin's reply is beautiful. Who decides what the hemline will be? No one, it is due to cultural evolution. Just as evolution is the answer to that question so Justin is a part of the evolutionary process ... a very Shadow like stance to take. It also avoids answering the Vorlon question. Also interesting is that if you ask the Vorlons the Shadow question they say, "Don't ask that question?" whereas the Shadows, in their sneaky way, just evade the question.
+UteChewb JMS points out in the commentary that the Shadows don't react well to the "who are you" question. Justin prefers to define himself by what he does and wants.
Yeah, I'd love to see Jack the Inquisitor and Justin have a little "conversation" ha
Shadows behind door number ONE!!!
"The flesh does as the flesh is told, or they will become very angry."
The Vorlon's always asked "Who are you?
The Shadow's always asked "What do you want? "
Sheridan at that point in time was allied with Kosh and the Vorlon's.
Who controls the British Crown? We do. We do. Who keeps the metric system down? We do. We do.
Jeff Corey was fantastic as "Justin". Who knew there could be someone even more creepy than Morden? They did a great job with the color scheme and decoration. Everything about that place said "evil".
I wish we could have seen "Vorlon" like we got to see Zahadum.
It's interesting that he asked him "Who are you?" because that's the Vorlon question. And Justin didn't want to answer him.
Although i appreciate this scene i still find it a little pity that they didn't find a way to make Sheridan's escape from the room more "realistic". I mean The Shadows are a million years old species. Surely they wouldn't let someone escape so easily? [In my opinion Sheridan was only able to escape because of a piece of a Vorlon inside him.]
@axa8791 Good point, and one I had completely missed! Sheridan asked Justin the Vorlon question, not the Shadow question. That should have tipped old Justin off!
"The man in the middle is looking for you."
Omigosh, I just realized...the Shadows are Stonecutters!
Handsome guy you make Devil's deals with, reprogrammed former wife and evil grandpa...all meeting in a Crate and Barrel showroom...
One thing I find so odd about the Shadows is that their philosophy is about evolution through conflict. But there is no real conflict amongst *them*, or their servants! Indeed, they all act in perfect synchronicity to a common plan. Everyone fulfills their role. Heck, even their *interior decor* favors clean lines and implies *order*! There is no real *chaos*! That's why Justin had no trouble answering the question "Who are you?" beyond his annoyance that it was the Vorlon question.
Was he asked "What do you want?", only to answer: 2,000 sq ft and an unlimited credit account at Crate and Barrel?
If this Justin guy was the mysterious "man in between", then it seems kind of a waste to kill him off in the same episode in which he was introduced.
@HarPlayer uhm, no, he was simply "the middle man", as per canon he was Sheridan's counterpart, the ominous character referred to in the creepy "the man in the middle is searching for you" visions Sheridan had. the shadows are still the masters, but they prefer to have others do the menial tasks such as pilot ships or coordinate battle plans.
Wow that place reeks of shadows I got a bad feeling when he had to give up his gun all in all a setting scene for what's coming
Who controls the British crown?
Who keeps the Metric system down?
We do, we do!
The man in between is looking for you.
Best Story arc ever on a syfy show.
The shadows philosophy is what do you want? they do not look at the question of who are you, because for them, its not the persons knowledge of self, or their own identity they focus, they focus on of their own aquisition of chaos, to promote in their views growth and evolution, but they do not realize or overlook without knoweldge of self, or discovery then the rest of material pursuits has not merit without knowing the question of who you are, so when asked they fall back to what they perform.
Vorlons and shadows are 2 sides of the same coin but they define things differently.
Vorlons ask Who are you
As a definition of who they r as a an entity and how U contribute ur identity in performing things towards self enlightenment to help others.
The shadows
Who r u question is not of identifying oneself, but the measurement in the tasks they perform is the identity of that person.
I just noticed the door he tries to go into first is about 3 steps from the one he goes into... 0:58 then look at the size of the room he goes into Time lord technology XD
So...The Shadows are The International Banksters?
When asked for my weapon, I would have simply reached for the air mask and asked to leave right then.
The Shadows like the Mad king Ludwig look in their subservients -Morden and Cartagia have similar 'dos.
1:46 Do you think Sheridan would've gotten the same answer if he just asked 'what is your name?'
Lol gets mental image of pant-wearing shadows visiting their tailor.
The Shadow head Hon Cho the Big Boss of all Shadows
You don't ask someone aligned with the Shadow the Vorlon question.
The man in the middle is looking for you.
Right, left hands..
Two halves, both equal and opposite.
Melissa Gilbert is so pretty.
He wasn't really that important in the scheme of things. His only role was to turn Sheridan to the Shadows, and we all know that turned out. He would have been baggage if he were held over.
it had the ballz to go where no man had gone before...
@kralizec7 Who do you think was the talent agent who found Snooki? Tell me that wasn't the work of the Shadows!
Good point. That didn't occur to me the first time I saw it!
@angrydead That isn't who he really is. That's what he does. *wink*
That friggin uniform...
dont foget shadows promote eveluttion trough warfare
This man's whistling "S" sounds should have been plenty enough to destroy the shadows.
somehow I doubt the shadows care how long the workday is and how long pants will be.
Funny part of B5 is the dialogue with Edgars where he points out that Russia starts a war in 2013. Funny how a TV show can flat out predict someone will be framed for wanting to start a war 10 years before it happens.
Piilo Aki Shocking
+newtoeugene Nope.......
Star Trek: Deep Space 9 was plagiarized from Babylon 5. (Just as Lost in Space was plagiarized from the classic Star Trek) JMS pitched his idea to Paramount, which then rejected it. Shortly later, they came out with ST: DS9. Majel Barrett-Roddenberry even admitted it at one point.
After the demise of Star Trek: The Next Generation, the Trekkers hoped that DS9 would take over the reigns as the leader of the sci-fi genre. But that didnt happen, because Babylon 5 blew it away.
Pssh. Should have asked them "What do you want?" as well :P
@lemonpeas No, it isnt Mark Twain. Justin is one of the passengers on the Icarus.
Morden should have been on jersey shore
the title is flawed. he wasn't a shadow. he was a servant of them. the title should be (if accurate) "who are you to a servant of the shadows"
?? who are stonecutters
It would have been a interesting answer either way...
A very complicate way to say "I don't know".
even in this time the Illuminati are still in control
Right! Who are you?
Shouldn't you be bringing the boy king to heel?
it did?
This show actually did better than Deep Space Nine.
I feel the same way when the government wants my guns.
agree
WOW. Who locked out all the other videos showing the rest of this "conversation" with the jew justin...very strange.
I adore the way he dodges that question so elegantly and never, ever quite answers it.