Rollo May: The Human Dilemma (Part One Complete): Thinking Allowed with Jeffrey Mishlove
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- Опубліковано 30 тра 2024
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NOTE: This is the full broadcast portion of the 88-minute DVD interview.
Existential psychology emphasizes philosophic rather than psychopathological aspects of the human condition. In this animated, two-part discussion, Dr. May proposes that genuine growth comes from confronting the pain of existence rather than escaping into banal pleasures or shallow, positive thinking. Genuine joy, he says, can emerge from an appreciation of life's agonies.
The late psychotherapist Rollo May was a recipient of the Distinguished Career Award of the American Psychological Association and a founding sponsor of the Association for Humanistic Psychology. He was author of numerous classic works including Love and Will, Psychology and the Human Dilemma, Freedom and Destiny, Dreams and Symbols, The Meaning of Anxiety and Man's Search for Himself.
indeed the way he compliments the interviewer for understanding his point and being truly engaged in the dialogue is beautiful.
This shows what level of consciousness Rollo May was in. I so wish I could have met him. I would have loved to have had some deep conversations with him.
I was just going to write the same thing. I would like to see interviewees giving compliments as well, so journalists can figure out what a good question is.
Jeffery Mishlove is one of the greatest human beings to ever live on the earth. He is a total badass.
jargin2
Don't forget the intro music! I get down with every time. lol
I think he knows what most of us are trying to learn.
yeah he is ace
You need to get out more.
Indeed, exudes love and understanding.
What a pleasure to have this video. I was a therapist, playing my role in the collapse of the existential paradigm. I knew May, Mishlove, and studied PaulTillich. I am near my demise, but grateful for the journey during the aborted era of existential and humanistic psychology along with the current transformation of religions, especially Christianity. What an odyssey. Despair may be the beginning of wisdom and creativity. Chris R.
Chris Rubel Chris I'd like to chat with you about your experience in this area! :) If you want to chat, inbox me...Matt
What do you mean when you say
"playing my role in the collapse of the existential paradigm"
I'm very Curious to hear form an insider.
Yeah, I would love to know the story of this collapse...
Tzubazaah Alex this guy dies in march this year.
RIP CHRIS
One of those rare and deeply sincere interviews you dont get to see that often.
Tea Maneku wow, the shows they had back in the days....
skepsys
I just commented this above but I just recently discovered "New Thinking Allowed" videos that are recently made. Mishlove is an old man now, but he is still so recognizable! I love it.
Authenticity and sincerity are in such decline in our current age-I think that's why these interviews are so refreshing and enriching. Two people having a genuine conversation, the interviewer actually having an intimate understanding of the interviewees work and ideas, and their joined respect for both the other person and the viewer. It's a beautiful thing. It's all symbolised in how Jefferey says thank you to the audience at the end-he really means it!
Correct we must treasure these while we can still view them
Our existential freedom is what allows us to feel anxiety and despair; this, in turn, gives rise to creativity, growth, understanding, and joy. It's almost like anxiety and creativity are two sides of the same coin. Great talk.
Awesome summary
We create art to deal with lifes anxieties and find comfort.
That interviewer was well prepared DANG!
hells yeah!!
chEA
He always is! He's awesome. They have "New thinking allowed" videos too where he has aged into a 60 something year old looking man. it's crazy, lol.
He's 71 and going strong!
He was interested on what he was saying and the rest flew naturally
almost like it was his job
When real, severe anxiety kicks in 24/24, you can't be creative, you can't do nothing, you are frozen. I couldn't sleep or eat, or think. But anxiety made me a more courageous person, well I think so.
Spudboy41 isn't that courageousness in and of itself a creative byproduct of the anxiety?
being frozen is one choice. even in extremely stressful situations, some people don't freeze.
Doctor Jeffrey is awesome. I love all his interview sessions. Imagine if this genre of tv was as well promoted as ESPN.
wagfinpis Very well said.
Well said!!
I would like to see the similar priorities for enlightened education, as there is for the Defense budget, etc.
People that ask questions and that say that everyone can pursue a journey are not helpful in controlling what people think.
Courage. Rollo May is a legend.
There is an elegance and beauty in this interview that is a transference of the themes they discuss. May’s gentleness in speaking of the difficulty in being human is so tenderly brutally honest. Love those existentialists 🙌🏻
I can't stand the expression 'brutally honest.' Rollo May would never express himself like that.
Jeffrey Mishlove has given humanity a wonderful gift by giving us all these interviews. Thank you Jeffrey.
i can totally attest to the anxiety/creativity part. lets just say anxiety and creativity is pretty much my life story. almost everything i know about my personal hobbies to people and the world came from me not backing out of situations because of anxiety, but more so triggered me to understand things better rather than run away or hide from them. most of the time, in the end i just go like "omg, that was it? nothing much to be scared of".
I think Rollo May enjoys this guy interviewing him. He seems as infatuated by his word as Mishlove is about Rollo May. I love this interview it goes into my favorites...I also suffer from clinical anxiety, but Rollo spoke hope and purpose to me in this video.
I know your pain buddy. I was diagnosed with PTSD, Generalized Anxiety Disorder and Social Anxiety Disorder. This man's entire demeanor is enriched with genuine caring, and gives me unnatural calmness.
Love Rollo May's books! Man search for himself and meaning of anxiety is absolutely critical!
LOL those last few seconds, when Jeffrey turns and thanks the viewer, gold.
cos he means it A a r o n
😂
😂 I wasn't going to say anything but... 😅 but still what an absolutely beautiful exchange 😍
BEAUTY AND TRUTH! Right here folks.
Beauty, truth, and goodness. Take away one, you loose the rest.
Absolutely captivating, and true. I believe and publish about it, that we should respect our own mystical tradition instead of recurring to the philosophies of India and Japan, which is also my criticism of Fritjof Capra's book 'The Tao of Physics (1975)'. I need to read Rollo May's books and honestly thank Jeffrey Mishlove to have invited this important psychologist and philosopher. The new age movement, while potentially sounding as a good idea, is actually deluding people more than enlightening them.
***** Why have our philosophies not done the job, as you put it? Because the focus was put on Platonism and the philosophy of Aristotle which were taken over by the Church and formed into a dogmatic authoritarian doctrine. But what about stoicism which is closest to the pragmatism of Zen and its emphasis was upon validating nature, not dominating nature? It is a philosophy that very well could be useful for people in our time. And what about the philosophy of Heraclitus which has long been a forerunner of systems thinking. It was never given the attention it deserves.
***** You should ask that question to T.E.M.A. who came up with the term. But I guess the job was to overcome our Cartesian knowledge tradition, to get us to see nature again with innocent eyes, as an organic intelligent system or network, and not as a clockwork, as this mechanistic reductionist science tradition made us believe.
The point of view of Eastern Philosophy was introduced by Capra's book 'The Tao of Physics' in 1975 as a counterpoint to mechanistic science; he argued his point that Eastern mysticism helps us to look at nature as an organic, integrated system, not a clockwork-and the question I asked in my review of the book was if he could not have found that counterpoint in our own philosophical tradition?
In my opinion, we had that wisdom tradition ourselves, thus why resort to far-Eastern wisdom traditions? And besides, I believe we can always better build upon our own tradition because we have grown in it and it has made us grow.
In this Amazon review I have left the critique out and just reported what the book's basic themes are. The critique will be published in my upcoming biographical book about Fritjof Capra.
www.amazon.com/review/R1H38FYYJ3V2TQ
*****
It is more generally put the shift from the partnership paradigm to the dominator paradigm, as Riane Eisler expresses it in her books, replacing the older dichotomy of matriarchy versus patriarchy because the latter have never existed in any pure form. Yes, I believe that the belief in the superiority of man, which was and is a Christian belief, has implicitly prepared capitalism. In a way our consumer culture is just another belief system where the authority of the priest was replaced by the authority of the psychiatrist and the Church by the corporate hierarchy. It's not politics but the corporate world that today tells people what they have to eat, to drink, and to believe (with all the black-and-white gimmick here on the level of large-scale moralism) which medicines to take, which holidays to book and which books to read.
*****
Yes, Zen is not a belief system, quite the contrary actually. It's a pragmatic way of life where awareness is built about our beliefs, our attachments and our lack of attention to detail. I have practiced Zen meditation since roughly twenty years and in the beginning it was extremely difficult to be without a though even for 2 minutes. The trick is not to suppress thought because that would lead to the opposite result (more inner turmoil for one thought then chases another or they get to be 'at war').
But I went on to practice, just half an hour per day, sitting in the posture, observing your breathing and paying attention to your posture, and after about two years I could sit there with no thought for about one hour. Now I can do this even when being in bed, without taking the posture. It's a state of bliss because thoughts are pretty much a bother when you want to be quiet inside.
To repeat it, the trick is to just observe your thoughts during the meditative state, passively, without attachment to any of them, and without emotional reactions, as you watch a film. This attitude of non-attachment then translates over into your daily life and you can do household chores-something typical to do in Zen-without any resistance. When you do not distinguish anymore between mental and physical activities, you become non-judgmental which is about the greatest profit you can have.
All our great problems today have their reason in people being judgmental, and religions have contributed to this judgmentalism with all their moralism. If humanity is to be peaceful one day, it can only be reached through abandoning a judgmental attitude toward life, toward others and first of all, toward self ...
Quote: "I believe and publish about it, that we should respect our own mystical tradition". Why? Your mystical tradition may be your downfall if it is not true.
An incredible conversation. As a society we continue to run from our anxiety and it becomes more and more prevalent. Our medications help but do not heal us. All the riches in the world do nothing to calm us. We need to confront it, look directly towards despair and travel through, to the joy that awaits us beyond.
you know what it was?
May's book, 'The Courage to Create' was a great help to me in my thirties as my career in the arts was getting started. He has a way of bringing the discovery to the reader vs being a pedant. This interview must have been a great pleasure for both men, to say nothing of their rapt audience.
Rollo May was a competent psychologist with a deep and profound understanding of human being. I really enjoy reading his books. He wrote very beautifully. No wonder Jeffrey Mishlove had such experience while reading the last chapter of Love and Will. I have had similar experiences while reading May's books too.
"Philosophy is the basis for freedom." ...
yes it can be
I dunno about that
...and freedom is the mother of anxiety."
15:10 is beautiful....
this guy is amazing. He speaks my thoughts so eloquently, and hits all the right points. Great interview.
Edit; amazing interview, not just great. This man has it figured out, and i am glad to have found a like minded video like this at the right time!
I have been looking for a video like this for ages I am so happy I did and seeing these comments makes me wanna meet people like you all and I will
Landed here because I heard Earl Nightingale mention his book in his recordings.
Thank you for sharing this video
yep! same here.
I love this guy, even though he's the king of awkward endings.
When in the presence a true master, and when having mastered one's own mind, the energy known as anxiety is quite changed. It becomes stillness, where true creativity is found. There is no harmony when anxiety is present. Only in stillness is creativity in its most pure form. Once a being loses the "I am the body' idea (Ramana Maharshi) there is no anxiety. An anxious martial artist has lost the center (chong), and therefore the reason for his/her practice (realization) is lost. Be like water my friend (Bruce Lee).
What a lovely interview. Despite the fact that I've never heard the words 'anxiety', 'despair' and 'agony' in a 27 minute period, I had a smile on my face for most of it!
Love and Will
by Rollo May
Love and Will is a book by American existential psychologist Rollo May, in which he articulates the principle that an awareness of death is essential to life, rather than being opposed to life.
The heart of the human dilemma, according to Rollo May, is the failure to understand the real meaning of love and will, their source, and interrelation. Bringing fresh insight to these concepts, May shows how we can attain a deeper consciousness.
May was influenced by American humanism, and interested in reconciling existential psychology with other philosophies, especially Freud's.
May considered Otto Rank (1884-1939) to be the most important precursor of existential therapy. Shortly before his death, May wrote the foreword to Robert Kramer's edited collection of Rank’s American lectures. “I have long considered Otto Rank to be the great unacknowledged genius in Freud’s circle,” wrote May (Rank, 1996, p. xi).
May used some traditional existential terms in a slightly different fashion than others, and he invented new words for traditional existentialist concepts. Destiny, for example, could be "thrownness" combined with "fallenness" - the part of our lives that is determined for us, for the purpose of creating our lives. He also used the word "courage" to signify resisting anxiety.
He defined certain "stages" of development:
Innocence - the pre-egoic, pre-self-conscious stage of the infant.
An innocent is only doing what he or she must do. However, an innocent does have a degree of will in the sense of a drive to fulfill needs.
Rebellion - the rebellious person wants freedom, but does not yet have a good understanding of the responsibility that goes with it.
Decision - The person is in a transition stage in their life such that they need to be more independent from their parents and settle into the "ordinary stage". In this stage, they must decide what to do with their life and fulfilling rebellious needs from the rebellious stage.
Ordinary - the normal adult ego learned responsibility, but finds it too demanding, and so seeks refuge in conformity and traditional values.
Creative - the authentic adult, the existential stage, self-actualizing and transcending simple egocentrism.
These are not "stages" in the traditional sense. A child may certainly be innocent, ordinary, or creative at times; an adult may be rebellious. The only association with certain ages is in terms of importance: rebelliousness is more important for a two-year-old or a teenager.
May perceived the sexual mores of the 1960s and 1970s, as well as the commercialization of sex and pornography, as having influenced society such that people believed that love and sex are no longer associated directly.
According to May, emotion has become separated from reason, making it acceptable socially to seek sexual relationships and avoid the natural drive to relate to another person and create new life. May believed that sexual freedom can cause modern society to neglect more important psychological developments.
May suggests that the only way to remedy the cynical ideas that characterize our times is to rediscover the importance of caring for another, which May describes as the opposite of apathy.
His first book, The Meaning of Anxiety, was based on his doctoral dissertation, which in turn was based on his reading of the 19th-century philosopher Søren Kierkegaard. His definition of anxiety is “the apprehension cued off by a threat to some value which the individual holds essential to his existence as a self” (1967, p. 72). He also quotes Kierkegaard: “Anxiety is the dizziness of freedom”. In 1956, he edited the book Existence with Ernest Angel and Henri Ellenberger. Existence helped introduce existential psychology to the US
There is so much truth in this video it makes me cry. Finally somebody speaks about it.
Mishlove is a fucking legend.
Facts
Rollo rocks….such a fine gentleman full of humility
I attended a lecture of his in the 1960's, and he was great then, he is great now.
What an amazing interview!! Thank you so much!
What a profound and beautiful conversation!
Oh my god. I had no idea Jeffrey Mishlove interviewed Rollo May. I never actually buy anything online, but I may buy this interview.
this is so eye/mind opening! anxiety is the world knocking at my door, and if I choose to do nothing, it will remain, it will chase me forever, in a way the world is a persistent being that brings so many oppurtunities - thank you for uploading this!
Jeffery Mishlove really nailed it in all the ways.. such a treat to feel through this whole moment.
Inspiring! thank you! I am just starting "love and Will" and look so forward to all it has for me.
I've watched this so many times and I can't get enough of it. Great interview with a brilliant mind and great interviewer who was well prepared. Thank you so much.
It is refreshing to hear Dr May. His words speak of true Wisdom ... Thanks for sharing the video.
Very moved by this. His philosophy and outlook spoke to me.
I have just seen UG Krishnamurti's interview, now all these views/ solutions/ insights seem so blank.
"All I can guarantee you is that as long as you are searching for happiness, you will remain unhappy." - UGK R.I.P.
Try not to take UG'S absolutist views too seriously, just try to do whatever you feel is best in each moment.
@@rustinholliday2252 "There is no way out"
@@arvi2010 Of course there isn't, but try not to make too much of a big deal about there being no way out. Just accept it, acceptance is enlightenment. Happiness comes and goes wether you're looking for it or not, if you felt happy all the time then it wouldn't be called happiness, happiness is an extra feeling that is so good because it is not felt all the time, so just keep breathing in and out and doing what you think is best in each moment, because you never know what the tide may bring in.
@@rustinholliday2252 Thanks
What a great meeting and interview! I was touched by these words: " Freedom is the also mother of anxiety. If you had no freedom you don't know anxiety." That makes total sense to me. Actually, we know anxiety because we can be free and make our choices as we prefer. And in consequence of that, we have to face ou support good or bad things as a result of our choices that we usually know like Freedom. Very well said Doctor May. I'm really interested in your ideas. Thanks so much for being this brilliant thinker that inspire us until these days.
This is amazing, thank you so much!
It's heartening to hear such wisdom and idealism. There seems very little in todays society, we have become so fragmented and isolated. I believe our priorities should be community connection and fulfilment.
What an amazing man, love his work!
Excellent interactive discussion!! We deserve a structured class of Dr. Rollo May on Freedom and Anxiety from the Existential perspective. Please fulfill this demand as we love Existential Clinical Psychology.
I gust SOOOOO much anxiety and hearing him say that just made me think of anxiety as a positive thing I must use to work FOR me not against me!! THANK YOU GOD FOR PUTTING THIS VIDEO IN MY PATH 🙏🏻
Me too!
Excellent Interview and an excellent perspective on the world and Society.
Great video. Thanks for sharing.
Wise humility 👌🏻 these two are prime examples of true intellectuals
What a beautiful & elegant & inspiring conversation between two beautiful minds & hearts. I wish Rollo May was still alive and around to give words of advice.
What a fantastic interview.
i love this show so much!
Thank you for this chat with Rolo May! Eric Butterworth, in his writings, oft times quoted Rolo. Was great to see him and hear his views. Just getting started on Thinking Aloud...marvelous!
I attended Unity at Lincoln Center had the opportunity to listen to Eric until he passed also Olga.
I always like the videos that I watch on this channel because I see that he does not put ads on these videos videos which is very respectful given how UA-cam is today Therefore he deserves my likes and comments! If I can help his Channel with the UA-cam or his pocket by commenting or liking the videos that's what I'm gonna do💖 Thank you for not putting ads everywhere!! it's easier to listen and learn💖 thank you from the bottom of my heart ❤ He cares about people's learning and getting the messages out.
Wonderful,absolutely amazing!
looks like you DID !
Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain
A sacred interview!
The explanation given of the essence of the human soul - spirit is very well articulated
Perfect interview jeffrey
Haven't had the experience in lan extremely long time where I feel like I'm listening to two people who are graciously, humbly and with pure intent seeking and discussing truth, AND found it! It being in a sort of goofy and sterile early 80s setting just makes it better. Not only was listening to the conversation refreshing, but it also feels like a historical document, a capture-in-time of a culture that has sadly been largely lost. On the flip side I can't say this about the movies from the 80s, they were on the whole pretty terrible. It actually feels like this is instead the culture that more permeated the 40s and 50s.
A great find and listen 💪
Hearing Dr. May's hope for the future saddens me because our society isn't moving the direction he hoped. Happinesses and joy are not on anybody's radar. Making loads of money is still a big obsession, money is such a big factor and preoccupation in our lives, it makes it impossible to think anything else could ever matter more.
This is just beautiful.
yeah !
Kiss the joy as it flies
Jeffery Mishlove's description of his personal experience while reading the last chapter of May's book "Love & Will" was a privilege to hear. His curiosity is contagious.
Thank you
Powerful ideas.
We are going to bring this back.
Having to face the fact that this new age they are talking about hasnt arrived yet is upsetting 18:31 . People are still obsessed with money and titles. Most people dont even try to connect with themselves. It takes courage and they are choosing the easy path every single day..
"You cannot love unless you can will" -True
can you love ?
My Fake Name I think we all can
Beautiful
Problems lead to joy. Embrace your troubles.
My meditation has just been reinvigorated..
"Joy comes from the agony" 🧡
He is more right in todays time than ever. Great mind.
wow never have i seen an interviewer so attuned to the interviewee
A truly great conversation.
You recents , take note !
You have ? Ok then because real men , with at least an inkling of what the good is , speak thus .
Me acordé de rollo may y aquí estoy escuchandolo
I LOVE the intro
Good shit, Rollo
Just Beutiful :) two authentic human beings sharing an I - thou moment
There's also another thing that strikes me, the interviewer had actually read the book/s of the interviewed. I wonder if this common courtesy is still a tradition
Nope,.look at the 100+ interviews with Jordan Peterson and 99% of them are with clueless interviewers that have zero appreciation for his works
I am inspired.
Brilliant
Does anyone know what year this
is? Looks 1980s. The dialogue is so current and relevant to today, could have been filmed yesterday.
Great news!! Now watch every title and guest in the Thinking Allowed Collection, complete and commercial free. More than 350 programs now streaming.
Visit our website at thinkingallowed.com or visit thinkingallowed.vhx.tv
This guys is a genius
What is the DATE of this RECORDING ??? so so amazing
How strange to think that an elephant or dolphin would never contemplated it's own death. Silly humans, you use your brains wrong.
Great show, fascinating guest as usual!
I would date this in the early 80's or the late 70's judging from the mannerisms of the two men. Very well spoken and genuinely concerned. Not like today's pundits. "What ever"...I would give my left nut to be able to sit and talk with an old man as wise as the Dr. Old people are here among us, but they just wont talk of such things or they are encapable of such pleasing conversation.
+greezy39 mid to late 80's is my guess.
Is there a part 2?
While it's wise to try and make the best of a bad situation, it sounds like he's trying to justify all the misery and suffering of the world as being useful to fuel creativity. "Human life begins on the far side of despair." Is that really the world you want to consent to? A few butterflies in the stomach can inspire a better performance, traumatic, debilitating anxiety is not helpful. Perhaps all the mothers in war zones who are terrified ("anxious") their babies will be destroyed should just create a pretty painting. Big art-world success might make it all worthwhile. Slaves don't have anxiety because they don't have freedom? I bet the anticipation of a miserable lifetime of suffering inspired more anxiety than the fear of death.
There's a name I can't understand to look up who he/she is; that name is said just prior to that of Meister Eckhart at 18:37 . If someone knows who that is would you please comment with the answer.
I'd love to hear the full John W. Perry interview.
it's not our own demise that's the only problem. I think it's the twist of being alive and dealing with our own suspicions, beliefs, kinks, and observations that can be violently contradictory to what we want them to be. i think there's everything right and wrong at the same moment. It's so stressful that we need to laugh... so we search for laughter. That's hilarious!!❤❤jenn
When was this recorded?
When was this filmed, anyone know? 1970s, 80s?
Can anyone please help me? When was this interview?
What a kind and intelligent man dr. Rollo May is, you can´t imagine that he´s an American..
Rollo May (April 21, 1909 - October 22, 1994) was an American existential psychologist. He was the author of the influential book Love and Will, which was published in 1969. He is often associated with both humanistic psychology and existentialist philosophy. He along with Viktor Frankl was a major proponent of "existential psychotherapy" which seeks to analyze the structure of human existence with the aim of understanding the reality underlying all situations of humans in crises