For those who might write this off as unnecessary, I can attest that the time spent with one of these little scales is eye-opening. I used to organize my flies by bead size, but that doesn't account for variations in bead brands, hook weight, and material weight. My eyes don't always detect the difference between a 2.8mm and a 3.0mm bead, especially when it's tied on a fly, but the scale isn't deceived. I was surprised to see variations as much as a half grain in otherwise very similar patterns in my box. As Devin explains, you can identify critical gaps in your weight ranges and focus your tying efforts, adding lead if necessary or adjusting bead sizes. On the water, you make more informed fly choices as a result. Great stuff, thanks for shooting this video.
I weigh my nymphs on a scale by grains and put them in an order of bigger to smaller. I weight my tungsten beads and write the number in grains on the bags that they come in. I use different brands of beads so they do weigh differently. An example is, I use a small slotted tungsten beads and normal slotted beads and they do weigh differently. I write in pencil in my Fulling mill boxes on the paper that’s under the foams. This process has really helped me choose the correct weighted nymph while fishing. Love your videos, thanks!!!!
When tying your nymphs, what is your thought process of when you tie by adding additional wire weight to the nymphs. What range of weight do you have between bead sizes?
@@ChuckNorris-lf8nt I try my best to get bead sizes with a difference of 0.3-0.5 mm in diameter. I weigh the end product and get the weights roughly by a grain between nymph sizes. A Harrelinre brand slotted 3.3 mm tungsten bead weighs about 3.4 grains, just for an idea. So, if I have my nymphs from lightest to heaviest with a difference of a grain , then I usually can choose a nymph that will drift properly. I may add wire to the hook shank to fine tune my nymphs but I don’t always have to do this if I have a good selection of bead sizes. I hope this makes sense. Thanks!!
All great advanced technical tactical advice. I realize now how badly I need to organize. I also tend to limit my fly selection to a handful of productive patterns that I've been tying.
Thanks Devin! I think I kind of have my boxes all together but I am going to get a digital scale just to verify my weights and to be certain. I like how you have your sections labeled in your fly box.
The scales are sometimes referred to as jeweler’s scale because they weigh tiny masses with them. Grains are common units for the ballistics crowd as well. A 22 caliber bullet is roughly 30 grains. To convert from grains to grams use the following 1 gram = 15.4 grains. Nice tutorial on how to organize the nymph box. I was attempting to EuroNymph a deep pocket and this type of organized fly box would have helped me dial-in a solution faster.
Thanks Devin! At the start of this video I thought, "I wonder if I could use a scale..." 😆 I have the best intentions sitting at the tying bench but in the heat of battle my boxes have become a mess! The labels are genius!
Thanks Devin ! I have been meaning to grab a grains scale, as just for curiosity as to what certain patterns weigh vs others. But I know that rabbit hole is calling me to jump down 😂 Great content as always man 👌🏼😎
Great video. I struggle when changing flies from say a Frenchie to a Walts Worm knowing if they will sink the same to get to the same depth. Having them sorted by weight would be a huge benefit. I might look into picking up a scale for sorting my fly boxes. Thanks
also remember two flies can weigh the same but sink at different rates based on materials used a perdigon is going to sink way faster then a soft hackle
Great tip on culling flies. I had boxes and boxes of flies I was not going to fish, didn't like the pattern, wasn't tied my best, etc etc. All just taking up space. Then I thought about how many hooks and beads I wasted, especially in some size and colors that I cannot get anymore. I spent a day at the vise with a box knife and a lighter and went to town. Now I am more organized and focused on weight being my primary reason for choosing a fly. I can get super picky when I am not Euronymphing, but efficiency rules that day when slinging beads.
Devin I have struggled with this very issue!! This makes alot of sense, I settled on organizing by bead size with a label maker in the FM boxes. But as you mentioned the type may not adjust the weight?? An OCD night mare for me now!!!!!!! Lol. I can see I need more tag nymphs to.. Great job
The good thing about having the scale is that it will give you an objective number to go by that is more representative than just the bead size at times. One thing you'll find is that the size and wire gauge of the hook can have a surprising impact as well.
In the video I’m using the Fulling Mill Tactical Max and the 4 page swingleaf waterproof box we sell in the tactical fly fishing shop. I like their volume and the spacing of slots and rows. I use the waterproof version in my hip pack for heavier flies and the fulling mill box in my chest pack for lighter flies.
I want one of those black boxes that you use for your heavy boxes.where can I get one ? I don't get out much anymore so I'm scaling down and that box is perfect
my problem is that im new to tying and fly fishing been at it for a year so i get my boxs organized then two weeks later i have a 100 new flys to use lol
i prefer to keep a tacky box or two at my tying desk to put all of my new flies into while i'm working on them. then once they've been tested by the troots, they work their way into my regular boxes
Hey Devin. Thanks for the video.. What do you do with your "used" nymphs while fishing.. For example, when you make a change, do you put it back in the box, or do you store it somewhere to dry out and re-weigh it??
I have a drying patch on my chest pack. I try to keep the flies relatively organized by weight in the patch. Once it's full, I weigh the flies again to make sure and put them back in their slots.
So as you tie to fill up the wholes in the boxes, are you planning on measuring weight of material before tying the pattern. Since we are talking grams and trying to hit a certain range then I would think there must be some pre-planning??
The weight of the hook and the bead (or any added lead wire) forms 95%+ of the completed fly. If you weigh the hook and bead before you tie you will know what range the fly will fit into and you can plan your hooks/beads accordingly.
great video! question, what do you find is your most utilized weight ranges for the most encountered water conditions? id imagine this is reflected in having the greater # of flies in those ranges and having broken up the wide range into smaller segments. that is if lets say 3.0 to 4.5 was your most utilized range, do you break it into 3.0 to 3.2 3.3 to 3.5 3.7 to 3.9 so you can be more granular in your selection? just curious what ranges you find more effective for the most common conditions and if you have more quantity of those flies and how you chop up the range. thx.
I fish a pretty wide variety of river sizes so this is a bit hard to answer. I probably use 2.5-4.5 grain flies the most on average though. I do plan on breaking up a couple of the ranges further but at a certain point the granularity of the range outreaches the accuracy and precision of the scale and it doesn’t make sense to go further.
Thanks Devin. I have organised my box (notice singular) based on bead size then with in bead size, fastest to slowest sinking. However after watching your video I have this sinking feeling that for a given bead size, the weight may vary. By example, can I assume all 2mm beads will have the same weight? Thanks
Alan, there can definitely be differences in weight between different brands of beads. Even within the same brand there will probably be a bit of variance between batches at times. So, you are likely getting within the ballpark of similarity with the way you are organizing your flies but I'd bet if you weighed your flies you might have some unexpected differences. The size and wire gauge of the hooks can also make a surprising difference as well.
Devin, would you talk about bead color choice? i noticed that you have some of the same flies with silver, brass, pink, and some "hot" beads in there too. Noticed a few black/dark beads there at the end too. What factors do you consider when choosing which bead color to fish?
I get asked this question a lot. I don't have a formula for picking bead colors. There are colors that have been normally associated with certain patterns or color schemes in the past which I have maintained on patterns. I have also tied some patterns I use a lot in multiple bead colors. I end up doing a lot of guessing and checking on the river to see if one works better than another. Some days bead color seems to matter a lot and others it doesn't seem to matter much at all. I haven't been able to correlate any connection between conditions and bead color so far.
Hi what do you consider a tag nymph pattern? Do you only fish them as tag or do you put them on point? When fishing a single fly do you use tag nymph patterns? Do you only use tag nymphs for tag flies or would you use other patterns?
@@tacticalflyfisher3817 I'm still balancing having the flies I need to be adaptable, without bringing the kitchen sink with me, which as you well know, is a hard balance to strike. I'm jealous of the Spanish and French comp people who have those very minimalist setups.
Hello Devin, great video as usual, just curious about why bead manufacturaters doesn't include the weight of the beads in the package, it would be very useful, is easy or better to weight in grains and not in grams? The thing is that before your video I use to weight in grams but in grains you get less fraction numbers and Im seeing that is better. Last thing, I saw in your website that the weight of a slotted tungsten in 2mm is a little heavier (1gr) than an inverting one (.8gr), is that correct? Sorry for my english and such much questions and thanks again for your great work
Bead manufacturers early star the weight of an individual bead so that’s why we’ve included it on our site. Grains is better for weighing flies in my opinion. And yes, the 2 mm inverting bead is the only inverting bead that is less weight than the same size slotted bead.
Devin, will your shop now list the grain weight for flies you sell? For those of us who don’t tie, the trick will be to fill in gaps in our boxes. Hook size is not the right metric when selecting flies at a shop, yet that is how flies are organized in their bins. Maybe I need to start bringing my scale with me to the shop? I know you show bead size, but grain weight would be even better.
We’ve got thousands of skus in our fly selection currently. At this point we can’t weigh them all but the hope is that we’ll be able to at least lie bead sizes for them all in the future. My patterns are moving to production with Fulling Mill next year. One of the reasons is I will have more bead size flexibility with them.
Great video Devin. Question for you. In a specific range (say 2-2.4) do you have them in ascending order like all 2.0s are together and then you start with 2.1s then 2.2a etc or is just any fly in that zone is somewhere between 2-2.4? Thanks
You can only get so accurate and precise with measurements, so I don't sort them by weight within a range. Eventually you'll make your head spin trying to get too precise. Instead, I group them by pattern type at that point since a perdigon within that weight range will still sink faster than a fly that is .2-.4 grains heavier than a fly is slowed down by feathers or dubbing.
Best thing about this was seeing that not all of your perdgion c.d.l. tails where straight, I hate tying those pesky tails ha-ha. Thanks for great content as usual
Yes, the scale I have currently is a Fuzion. There are a bunch of different scales out there. You want to make sure that whichever one you choose it needs to be precise to .01 grams or .1 grains. Also, the scales that are over $30 tend to be much better than those that are less expensive in my experience. I've had a few different ones over the years.
So with euronymphing you dont match the fly size to the actual bug size. You just match your weight to depth? Interesting. Crazy how it is all the opposite of what people traditionally do nynphing
There’s still a bit of both going on. If there is a dominant bug to imitate it can pay to match the size and color. However, it quickly becomes apparent that a good drift which is close to the trout becomes the most important aspect of success and many patterns can often fish well if they are fished correctly.
My boxes are not show pieces. Been flyfishing 63 years. I know which boxes are which and when I open them at a glance I find what I want. Making evrrything too technical today. Gotta have $1000 rods, $ 500 reels, and gotta have boxes like show pieces. Oh well
For those who might write this off as unnecessary, I can attest that the time spent with one of these little scales is eye-opening. I used to organize my flies by bead size, but that doesn't account for variations in bead brands, hook weight, and material weight. My eyes don't always detect the difference between a 2.8mm and a 3.0mm bead, especially when it's tied on a fly, but the scale isn't deceived. I was surprised to see variations as much as a half grain in otherwise very similar patterns in my box. As Devin explains, you can identify critical gaps in your weight ranges and focus your tying efforts, adding lead if necessary or adjusting bead sizes. On the water, you make more informed fly choices as a result. Great stuff, thanks for shooting this video.
Big ditto!
I weigh my nymphs on a scale by grains and put them in an order of bigger to smaller. I weight my tungsten beads and write the number in grains on the bags that they come in. I use different brands of beads so they do weigh differently. An example is, I use a small slotted tungsten beads and normal slotted beads and they do weigh differently. I write in pencil in my Fulling mill boxes on the paper that’s under the foams. This process has really helped me choose the correct weighted nymph while fishing. Love your videos, thanks!!!!
When tying your nymphs, what is your thought process of when you tie by adding additional wire weight to the nymphs. What range of weight do you have between bead sizes?
@@ChuckNorris-lf8nt I try my best to get bead sizes with a difference of 0.3-0.5 mm in diameter. I weigh the end product and get the weights roughly by a grain between nymph sizes. A Harrelinre brand slotted 3.3 mm tungsten bead weighs about 3.4 grains, just for an idea. So, if I have my nymphs from lightest to heaviest with a difference of a grain , then I usually can choose a nymph that will drift properly. I may add wire to the hook shank to fine tune my nymphs but I don’t always have to do this if I have a good selection of bead sizes. I hope this makes sense. Thanks!!
All great advanced technical tactical advice. I realize now how badly I need to organize. I also tend to limit my fly selection to a handful of productive patterns that I've been tying.
Hopefully it gave you some helpful ideas.
Thanks Devin. The scale is a great idea.
Thanks Devin! I think I kind of have my boxes all together but I am going to get a digital scale just to verify my weights and to be certain. I like how you have your sections labeled in your fly box.
The scales are sometimes referred to as jeweler’s scale because they weigh tiny masses with them. Grains are common units for the ballistics crowd as well. A 22 caliber bullet is roughly 30 grains. To convert from grains to grams use the following 1 gram = 15.4 grains. Nice tutorial on how to organize the nymph box. I was attempting to EuroNymph a deep pocket and this type of organized fly box would have helped me dial-in a solution faster.
Great video Devin. I am going to spend the winter reorganizing my kit
It's the best time to do it for sure.
Thanks Devin! At the start of this video I thought, "I wonder if I could use a scale..." 😆
I have the best intentions sitting at the tying bench but in the heat of battle my boxes have become a mess! The labels are genius!
Entropy rules the day for all of us Jim. Thankfully with some effort you can fight it at least temporarily. :)
Thanks Devin ! I have been meaning to grab a grains scale, as just for curiosity as to what certain patterns weigh vs others. But I know that rabbit hole is calling me to jump down 😂
Great content as always man 👌🏼😎
It's a pretty deep rabbit hole Steve...but it can be one with some treasures the rabbits hid away at the bottom as well.
Great video. I struggle when changing flies from say a Frenchie to a Walts Worm knowing if they will sink the same to get to the same depth. Having them sorted by weight would be a huge benefit. I might look into picking up a scale for sorting my fly boxes. Thanks
Thanks for watching. Good luck on the water.
also remember two flies can weigh the same but sink at different rates based on materials used
a perdigon is going to sink way faster then a soft hackle
Cool.great information Devin.thanks for sharing
I hope it helps.
Great tip on culling flies. I had boxes and boxes of flies I was not going to fish, didn't like the pattern, wasn't tied my best, etc etc. All just taking up space. Then I thought about how many hooks and beads I wasted, especially in some size and colors that I cannot get anymore. I spent a day at the vise with a box knife and a lighter and went to town. Now I am more organized and focused on weight being my primary reason for choosing a fly. I can get super picky when I am not Euronymphing, but efficiency rules that day when slinging beads.
Yep. In the end the pattern won't matter much if it's too far from the fish for them to want to eat it.
Thank you Deven 🙏
Where would I buy a box that has flies that are sorted
Devin I have struggled with this very issue!! This makes alot of sense, I settled on organizing by bead size with a label maker in the FM boxes. But as you mentioned the type may not adjust the weight?? An OCD night mare for me now!!!!!!! Lol. I can see I need more tag nymphs to.. Great job
The good thing about having the scale is that it will give you an objective number to go by that is more representative than just the bead size at times. One thing you'll find is that the size and wire gauge of the hook can have a surprising impact as well.
This soothes my Type A personality. What boxes are you using? Why do you choose the type boxes you use (volume, waterproof, etc)?
In the video I’m using the Fulling Mill Tactical Max and the 4 page swingleaf waterproof box we sell in the tactical fly fishing shop. I like their volume and the spacing of slots and rows. I use the waterproof version in my hip pack for heavier flies and the fulling mill box in my chest pack for lighter flies.
I have also added a NEW box so that new flies don’t get lost in the shuffle. This works very well.
I want one of those black boxes that you use for your heavy boxes.where can I get one ? I don't get out much anymore so I'm scaling down and that box is perfect
We have them in our shop. www.tacticalflyfisher.com/tactical-fly-fisher-waterproof-locking-4-leaf-fly-box/
my problem is that im new to tying and fly fishing been at it for a year so i get my boxs organized then two weeks later i have a 100 new flys to use lol
i prefer to keep a tacky box or two at my tying desk to put all of my new flies into while i'm working on them. then once they've been tested by the troots, they work their way into my regular boxes
Hey Devin. Thanks for the video.. What do you do with your "used" nymphs while fishing.. For example, when you make a change, do you put it back in the box, or do you store it somewhere to dry out and re-weigh it??
I have a drying patch on my chest pack. I try to keep the flies relatively organized by weight in the patch. Once it's full, I weigh the flies again to make sure and put them back in their slots.
Very Helpful! Could you give the brand of the label maker - and where to get it?
It’s a dymo label maker. You can find them online pretty easy.
@@tacticalflyfisher3817 Thanks!!
So does the size of the hook ie 16-20 just become part of weight calculation? Or do also organize by hook size?
Devin, nice video with some great pointers. On another note could you share the type or brand of fly boxes you displayed in the video. Thanks
Fulling Mill Tactical Max and a TFF 4 page swing lead box. We have them both in our store at tacticalflyfisher.com
Thanks!! Looking forward to the next one on dries! :-)
Yeah, I still need to reorganize my dry fly boxes...
Thanks Devin. Is there an advantage to using grains vs grams etc
It's easier to label the box if you go to grains since all of the grams measurements will be in decimals.
So as you tie to fill up the wholes in the boxes, are you planning on measuring weight of material before tying the pattern. Since we are talking grams and trying to hit a certain range then I would think there must be some pre-planning??
The weight of the hook and the bead (or any added lead wire) forms 95%+ of the completed fly. If you weigh the hook and bead before you tie you will know what range the fly will fit into and you can plan your hooks/beads accordingly.
great video! question, what do you find is your most utilized weight ranges for the most encountered water conditions? id imagine this is reflected in having the greater # of flies in those ranges and having broken up the wide range into smaller segments. that is if lets say 3.0 to 4.5 was your most utilized range, do you break it into 3.0 to 3.2 3.3 to 3.5 3.7 to 3.9 so you can be more granular in your selection? just curious what ranges you find more effective for the most common conditions and if you have more quantity of those flies and how you chop up the range. thx.
I fish a pretty wide variety of river sizes so this is a bit hard to answer. I probably use 2.5-4.5 grain flies the most on average though. I do plan on breaking up a couple of the ranges further but at a certain point the granularity of the range outreaches the accuracy and precision of the scale and it doesn’t make sense to go further.
I think there would be a considerable opportunity for someone to sell a box setup like. Id pay good money for one!
Thanks Devin. I have organised my box (notice singular) based on bead size then with in bead size, fastest to slowest sinking. However after watching your video I have this sinking feeling that for a given bead size, the weight may vary. By example, can I assume all 2mm beads will have the same weight?
Thanks
Alan, there can definitely be differences in weight between different brands of beads. Even within the same brand there will probably be a bit of variance between batches at times. So, you are likely getting within the ballpark of similarity with the way you are organizing your flies but I'd bet if you weighed your flies you might have some unexpected differences. The size and wire gauge of the hooks can also make a surprising difference as well.
Excellent explanation and video of your approach and logic.
Am I right in that most of your flies are tied with offset beads and not as many slotted?
Not really. I’d say it’s about half and half.
Devin,
would you talk about bead color choice? i noticed that you have some of the same flies with silver, brass, pink, and some "hot" beads in there too. Noticed a few black/dark beads there at the end too.
What factors do you consider when choosing which bead color to fish?
I get asked this question a lot. I don't have a formula for picking bead colors. There are colors that have been normally associated with certain patterns or color schemes in the past which I have maintained on patterns. I have also tied some patterns I use a lot in multiple bead colors. I end up doing a lot of guessing and checking on the river to see if one works better than another. Some days bead color seems to matter a lot and others it doesn't seem to matter much at all. I haven't been able to correlate any connection between conditions and bead color so far.
@@tacticalflyfisher3817 appreciate it
Hi what do you consider a tag nymph pattern? Do you only fish them as tag or do you put them on point? When fishing a single fly do you use tag nymph patterns? Do you only use tag nymphs for tag flies or would you use other patterns?
Sorry for the confusion. Tag nymphs are actually the patterns that have the fluorescent floss tag as a tail. My Blowtorch nymph is an example.
Great content Devin!
Thanks
Curious: after your winter organization, did you end up with less fly boxes than before, or more?
I ended up with the same amount of boxes but there is now more space in several of them for the inevitable fill up before the next reorganization.
@@tacticalflyfisher3817 I'm still balancing having the flies I need to be adaptable, without bringing the kitchen sink with me, which as you well know, is a hard balance to strike.
I'm jealous of the Spanish and French comp people who have those very minimalist setups.
Hello Devin, great video as usual, just curious about why bead manufacturaters doesn't include the weight of the beads in the package, it would be very useful, is easy or better to weight in grains and not in grams? The thing is that before your video I use to weight in grams but in grains you get less fraction numbers and Im seeing that is better. Last thing, I saw in your website that the weight of a slotted tungsten in 2mm is a little heavier (1gr) than an inverting one (.8gr), is that correct? Sorry for my english and such much questions and thanks again for your great work
Bead manufacturers early star the weight of an individual bead so that’s why we’ve included it on our site. Grains is better for weighing flies in my opinion. And yes, the 2 mm inverting bead is the only inverting bead that is less weight than the same size slotted bead.
You are incredible 🤪👍
Devin, will your shop now list the grain weight for flies you sell? For those of us who don’t tie, the trick will be to fill in gaps in our boxes. Hook size is not the right metric when selecting flies at a shop, yet that is how flies are organized in their bins. Maybe I need to start bringing my scale with me to the shop? I know you show bead size, but grain weight would be even better.
We’ve got thousands of skus in our fly selection currently. At this point we can’t weigh them all but the hope is that we’ll be able to at least lie bead sizes for them all in the future. My patterns are moving to production with Fulling Mill next year. One of the reasons is I will have more bead size flexibility with them.
Great video Devin. Question for you. In a specific range (say 2-2.4) do you have them in ascending order like all 2.0s are together and then you start with 2.1s then 2.2a etc or is just any fly in that zone is somewhere between 2-2.4? Thanks
You can only get so accurate and precise with measurements, so I don't sort them by weight within a range. Eventually you'll make your head spin trying to get too precise. Instead, I group them by pattern type at that point since a perdigon within that weight range will still sink faster than a fly that is .2-.4 grains heavier than a fly is slowed down by feathers or dubbing.
I knew that scale would come in handy again one day 😏
Best thing about this was seeing that not all of your perdgion c.d.l. tails where straight, I hate tying those pesky tails ha-ha. Thanks for great content as usual
Haha! The good old pinch wrap will help your tails if you can get it down. Thankfully the fish like tails that are crooked too though :)
Thanks for sharing Devin. What type of scale do you use and where can folks source the scale. Thanks again.
That is a Fuzion pocket scale. Amazon has them.
Yes, the scale I have currently is a Fuzion. There are a bunch of different scales out there. You want to make sure that whichever one you choose it needs to be precise to .01 grams or .1 grains. Also, the scales that are over $30 tend to be much better than those that are less expensive in my experience. I've had a few different ones over the years.
So with euronymphing you dont match the fly size to the actual bug size. You just match your weight to depth? Interesting. Crazy how it is all the opposite of what people traditionally do nynphing
There’s still a bit of both going on. If there is a dominant bug to imitate it can pay to match the size and color. However, it quickly becomes apparent that a good drift which is close to the trout becomes the most important aspect of success and many patterns can often fish well if they are fished correctly.
My boxes are not show pieces. Been flyfishing 63 years. I know which boxes are which and when I open them at a glance I find what I want. Making evrrything too technical today. Gotta have $1000 rods, $ 500 reels, and gotta have boxes like show pieces. Oh well
I need a streamer fly box tutorial BADLY
To bad i don't use any weighted flies