Sam's mum....You are so coragious for speaking out the truth. I'm proud of you. Well done. Nice to hear the views of such a strong lady. Truly a role model.
Sustaining leaders in the Mormon Church is a mere formality. Typically, the decisions are made behind the scenes and the calling is issued to the leader before the members vote to sustain the decision. Members are taught to sustain the church leaders and not to question any of their decisions.
I like this guy - i feel he is sincere in his search for the truth. i hope his search continues and at some point (sooner than later) he realizes there is no santa claus.
That lady is a badass. I love listening to Sam. He stuck it to the church with their own scriptures! It's crazy that simply voting "opposed" is so shocking in Mormonism.
Ten to fifteen years ago, when my daughters complained about how insipid or objectionable Young Women's activities were, I encouraged them to "vote with their feet". I really like the first option being voting with your hand.
I enjoyed the podcast very much. One part that bothered me was the "blacks and priesthood" comments. I applaud the Church essay on the subject except for two points. One they really give the Prophet at the time, Brigham Young, a pass due to the conditions and beliefs of the time in which he lived. He was the prophet, perhaps he should have had more insight on the subject than just following the crowd. And second, the statement is not really true about not knowing how the ban happened. We know exactly how it happened and the reasons used for implementing the ban. Brigham Young was very clear about it and used the "Curse of Cain" (and also the curse of Ham for the continuance of the curse) as the reason. But it is true that there is no record of him receiving a direct revelation about the ban. And no revelation was recorded. He basically implemented the ban based on his own racist beliefs and a confused understanding of the curse of Cain and the curse of Ham - a discussion for a different post. And the real crime regarding the priesthood ban is that all the Presidents after Brigham Young to Spencer Kimball did not recognize it was a mistake and not a revelation from God? Come on people, that is just weird and unacceptable.
i too was bothered by the comments about this - i never got the impression that the mormon church in any way has suggested they were wrong - i got the impression that they indicated you were wrong if you thought they had been racists on this topic. you are wrong if you thought the words of brigham young, heber j. grant, bruce mcconkie, mark peterson, harold b. lee and other corporate executives of this silly corporation posing as a church were the actual viewpoints of the mormon jesus and mormon god. YOU not they were wrong was what i got from the essay.
That young lady makes such a good point about seeking and craving knowledge within Mormonism but once you seek too much knowledge outside approved perameters it is suddenly discouraged!
On your Blog: Nondisclosure of Financial dealings. Our finances were open for members’ scrutiny until the 1950’s. Reason: Howard Hughes investment in the LDS church was made at that point.
My recollection of LDS history is that the law of common consent was alive and well early on in church history. And, it wasn't new to the LDS - all you have to do is go to a city council meeting to see it's alive and well, or view legislative meetings in our government. And I agree with Sam Young on morality; in fact to me religion isn't only about worshipping something/someone unknown or unseen, or necessarily about life after death (although I hope for that) and it is comforting to believe it. But, religions were also formed to hew men and women to a morality to be good to each other, so life would continue on this earth. Morality is one of the most important parts of religion, imho.
Good for Sam's mom!!! I'm so proud of her for taking a stand and resigning!!shes a strong woman and she will be much happier for her decision to leave! I can't see how Sam can stay in the church after what he's learned but understand he has his reasons. I truly hope he can help spread the truth and make other people think that are within the church, if nothing else! Good luck!
My wife and I are legally married without a marriage license. (A story for another day.) Our bishop and stake president accepted our marriage and approved our temple recommends as "worthy" members in "good standing". When we sought to get sealed in the temple both our bishop and stake president said we must have a marriage license before we could be sealed in the temple. /:-/ Despite many appeals they were firm about it. We never did and is one of the things that caused our faith in the church to crack.
That's rather ironic considering that in the early days of the Church Joseph and other leaders and prophets didn't seem to mind whether a marriage was legal or not, or in some cases if the persons were already married legally to someone else. I'm a convert of a little over two years who recently started questioning some of the doctrine and requirements to be a worthy saint. I knew that Brigham Young and the early Utah pioneer saints practiced polygamy (which I thought was for the sole purpose of increasing and maintaining the population as well as lessening the burdens of the difficult and harsh conditions the pioneer Saints faced on the frontier.) I however did not know until a few months ago that Joseph Smith practiced, preached and taught it....... lol how do you teach polygamy??? I get a chill up my spine when I think of a man of authority "teaching" women and men to defile themselves and the marriage bed. If the church was true to its roots and practices of its founders it would be not be the same church. That being said I think the Mormon people are some of the most wonderful, loving souls I have ever met. I was a mess when I started investigating and meeting with the missionaries, and they helped me face so many of my demons... I think the MEMBERS are why the church is so great today. I'm glad I gave the church a chance, I have learned sooooooo much and have a passion to serve God now more than ever , AND because of the research and continued investigation I've been doing, I've become (in my opinion) quite skilled at critical analysis of religious topics, or as the Word says, testing the spirits. Are you and you wife still members?
Why do you have to wait until conference to say your piece? Go to them and discuss it. If you are not happy tell them you want to take it further, until you get to put your case forward to your satisfaction. I did. It worked out fine. It took almost a year, but I effected change for me and others.
I found this interview to be fascinating. Sam's apologetics at this point in his life were the most convincing I have heard this far. It was the first time I saw a future vision of the church that seemed reasonable and maybe even moral!!!! His apology to the gay community from the church was also interesting.
As a never Mormon, I am very surprised that votes are open rather than confidential. I guess hand raise votes are relatively common in various church systems, including in the Presbyterian church where I was raised. But open voting systems are easily abused through retribution and retaliation and intimidation. This seemingly innocuous decision to have open vs closed voting is a means of covert control while still making it look like the members are making choices. Sam Young clearly told us how he got the subtle intimidation tactic of asking whether he was willing to lose his temple recommend as a consequence of his voting opposed. I also wonder if there is any opportunity to vote on single issues or if you only vote on the whole list of changes that put up for vote in that session. If there is only one vote, then the populace does not have a true place at the table. The membership isn't able to say "yes, I'm fine with all of these procedural changes that are needed", and still say "no, I don't agree with this policy about xyz". Sam makes some excellent points about how the DNC and the book of Samuel recognize the need for crowdsourcing to ensure the ship stays on course. But the fear that he had to manage in order to make that first No vote and the management of his ward and stake leaders all show how much control is truly in the system to prevent following the law of common consent. "Follow the prophet, follow the prophet, he'll show you the way".
Maybe this will get pointed out, I'm not all the way through yet, but these aren't true votes. We're not supposed to question church leaders or their decisions and there is immense public pressure to vote yes with everyone to everything. I was literally told as a youth that they're a symbolic vote and that we have to vote yes. Regardless, a proper vote isn't public. Your vote should be anonymous and confidential, or it's going to be subject to the coercion of those in power and/or the majority
I've listened to a number of Mormon Stories now, and I have to say that while masterbation is a concern to the church (and yes, I'm aware of the addiction fear), why is it assumed that it's male masterbation 90+% of the time? Is it more acceptable for discussion to discuss male masterbation than female? Women can derive pleasure from their bodies, and do. But, and in all the things I've listened to, read on masterbation in LDS content, it seems to me, that women are embarrassed or incensed when asked about it in meetings with 'authorities', but do they engage in it doesn't seem to be addressed. (And, yes they do. And, yes, imho it shouldn't be anyone's business but a person's own....well maybe the spouse, or if it indeed reaches an addiction level where it becomes deleterious to one's own life - work, relationships, etc. etc.)
If you are going to keep the ten commandments of God and are so concerned about following Jesus's example, why don't you start by keeping the 4th commandment as he did. Your faith carries his name. The 4th commandment is found in Exodus 20:8-11. "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it." Again the 4th commandment is found in Deuteronomy 5 :12-15 "Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee.Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou. And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the Lord thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the Lord thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day." The Sabbath does not fall on Sunday. It happens to fall on Saturday! God bless you!
Sally Gray I'm sorry I was trying to reply to your comment and hit the wrong Icon. It sent in a report. Please forgive me? Now I can't undo it. I am a black ground SDA. I haven't been to church in a while. I choose to stay away because I feed my animals and milk my goats in the morning. I have a tendency to stay away from people because I don't like them sharing their viruses with me. I feel the SDAs are the closest to the Bible truth.
Unfortunately Sam Young has greatly misunderstood the scriptures he quotes and the historical facts he presents. These policies are not that of man or even the prophet; these policies come from the Lord Jesus Christ. I sustain the prophet, President Nelson, and his actions and know they are in line with the will of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ.
Sam's mum....You are so coragious for speaking out the truth. I'm proud of you. Well done. Nice to hear the views of such a strong lady. Truly a role model.
Sustaining leaders in the Mormon Church is a mere formality. Typically, the decisions are made behind the scenes and the calling is issued to the leader before the members vote to sustain the decision. Members are taught to sustain the church leaders and not to question any of their decisions.
I like this guy - i feel he is sincere in his search for the truth. i hope his search continues and at some point (sooner than later) he realizes there is no santa claus.
That lady is a badass. I love listening to Sam. He stuck it to the church with their own scriptures! It's crazy that simply voting "opposed" is so shocking in Mormonism.
Such internal turmoil. The gospel of Jesus Christ is simple. No jumping through hoops. No secret handshakes. Peace be with you, Sam.
1:05:10 Church member orders iced tea. Word of wisdom never said "cold" hot drinks. Haha! That's pretty good.
yes - i laughed at that one too. silly mormons.
George Q Cannon messed up hot drinks for everyone! Technically soup and hot chocolate are against the wow😱
Truly enjoyed Sam and Berti.
Thank you for sharing your courage in voting against and using common consent.
Ten to fifteen years ago, when my daughters complained about how insipid or objectionable Young Women's activities were, I encouraged them to "vote with their feet". I really like the first option being voting with your hand.
I am so impressed with you both!!! Best decision to resign. I am so much happier. Thank you for your strength, courage to speak truth.
WOW!!.. what a STRONG Woman!!..Big hugs to Ms. Liddy for her bravery and courage to speak her truth!! 🌷🌷
I enjoyed the podcast very much. One part that bothered me was the "blacks and priesthood" comments. I applaud the Church essay on the subject except for two points. One they really give the Prophet at the time, Brigham Young, a pass due to the conditions and beliefs of the time in which he lived. He was the prophet, perhaps he should have had more insight on the subject than just following the crowd. And second, the statement is not really true about not knowing how the ban happened. We know exactly how it happened and the reasons used for implementing the ban. Brigham Young was very clear about it and used the "Curse of Cain" (and also the curse of Ham for the continuance of the curse) as the reason. But it is true that there is no record of him receiving a direct revelation about the ban. And no revelation was recorded. He basically implemented the ban based on his own racist beliefs and a confused understanding of the curse of Cain and the curse of Ham - a discussion for a different post. And the real crime regarding the priesthood ban is that all the Presidents after Brigham Young to Spencer Kimball did not recognize it was a mistake and not a revelation from God? Come on people, that is just weird and unacceptable.
i too was bothered by the comments about this - i never got the impression that the mormon church in any way has suggested they were wrong - i got the impression that they indicated you were wrong if you thought they had been racists on this topic. you are wrong if you thought the words of brigham young, heber j. grant, bruce mcconkie, mark peterson, harold b. lee and other corporate executives of this silly corporation posing as a church were the actual viewpoints of the mormon jesus and mormon god. YOU not they were wrong was what i got from the essay.
That young lady makes such a good point about seeking and craving knowledge within Mormonism but once you seek too much knowledge outside approved perameters it is suddenly discouraged!
On your Blog: Nondisclosure of Financial dealings. Our finances were open for members’ scrutiny until the 1950’s.
Reason: Howard Hughes investment in the LDS church was made at that point.
Fascinating! I never knew that about HH.
If it looks likes a corporation,walks and smells like a corporation then that's what it is.
God is easy,religion is hard.
Sam's A HERO!!! THANK U BROTHER!!!
I agree with his mother regarding the 2nd appointing in the Temple.
My recollection of LDS history is that the law of common consent was alive and well early on in church history. And, it wasn't new to the LDS - all you have to do is go to a city council meeting to see it's alive and well, or view legislative meetings in our government. And I agree with Sam Young on morality; in fact to me religion isn't only about worshipping something/someone unknown or unseen, or necessarily about life after death (although I hope for that) and it is comforting to believe it. But, religions were also formed to hew men and women to a morality to be good to each other, so life would continue on this earth. Morality is one of the most important parts of religion, imho.
Good for Sam's mom!!! I'm so proud of her for taking a stand and resigning!!shes a strong woman and she will be much happier for her decision to leave! I can't see how Sam can stay in the church after what he's learned but understand he has his reasons. I truly hope he can help spread the truth and make other people think that are within the church, if nothing else! Good luck!
My wife and I are legally married without a marriage license. (A story for another day.) Our bishop and stake president accepted our marriage and approved our temple recommends as "worthy" members in "good standing". When we sought to get sealed in the temple both our bishop and stake president said we must have a marriage license before we could be sealed in the temple. /:-/ Despite many appeals they were firm about it. We never did and is one of the things that caused our faith in the church to crack.
That's rather ironic considering that in the early days of the Church Joseph and other leaders and prophets didn't seem to mind whether a marriage was legal or not, or in some cases if the persons were already married legally to someone else. I'm a convert of a little over two years who recently started questioning some of the doctrine and requirements to be a worthy saint. I knew that Brigham Young and the early Utah pioneer saints practiced polygamy (which I thought was for the sole purpose of increasing and maintaining the population as well as lessening the burdens of the difficult and harsh conditions the pioneer Saints faced on the frontier.) I however did not know until a few months ago that Joseph Smith practiced, preached and taught it....... lol how do you teach polygamy??? I get a chill up my spine when I think of a man of authority "teaching" women and men to defile themselves and the marriage bed. If the church was true to its roots and practices of its founders it would be not be the same church. That being said I think the Mormon people are some of the most wonderful, loving souls I have ever met. I was a mess when I started investigating and meeting with the missionaries, and they helped me face so many of my demons... I think the MEMBERS are why the church is so great today. I'm glad I gave the church a chance, I have learned sooooooo much and have a passion to serve God now more than ever , AND because of the research and continued investigation I've been doing, I've become (in my opinion) quite skilled at critical analysis of religious topics, or as the Word says, testing the spirits. Are you and you wife still members?
Why do you have to wait until conference to say your piece? Go to them and discuss it. If you are not happy tell them you want to take it further, until you get to put your case forward to your satisfaction. I did. It worked out fine. It took almost a year, but I effected change for me and others.
I found this interview to be fascinating. Sam's apologetics at this point in his life were the most convincing I have heard this far. It was the first time I saw a future vision of the church that seemed reasonable and maybe even moral!!!! His apology to the gay community from the church was also interesting.
If your a real LDS polygamy is part of it that's reality and truth
Ragamuffins Gospel has Rich Mullins testimony in it. I read it years ago. So good!!
As a never Mormon, I am very surprised that votes are open rather than confidential. I guess hand raise votes are relatively common in various church systems, including in the Presbyterian church where I was raised. But open voting systems are easily abused through retribution and retaliation and intimidation. This seemingly innocuous decision to have open vs closed voting is a means of covert control while still making it look like the members are making choices. Sam Young clearly told us how he got the subtle intimidation tactic of asking whether he was willing to lose his temple recommend as a consequence of his voting opposed.
I also wonder if there is any opportunity to vote on single issues or if you only vote on the whole list of changes that put up for vote in that session. If there is only one vote, then the populace does not have a true place at the table. The membership isn't able to say "yes, I'm fine with all of these procedural changes that are needed", and still say "no, I don't agree with this policy about xyz".
Sam makes some excellent points about how the DNC and the book of Samuel recognize the need for crowdsourcing to ensure the ship stays on course. But the fear that he had to manage in order to make that first No vote and the management of his ward and stake leaders all show how much control is truly in the system to prevent following the law of common consent. "Follow the prophet, follow the prophet, he'll show you the way".
These are great great points Alex. Thank you!!
Maybe this will get pointed out, I'm not all the way through yet, but these aren't true votes. We're not supposed to question church leaders or their decisions and there is immense public pressure to vote yes with everyone to everything. I was literally told as a youth that they're a symbolic vote and that we have to vote yes. Regardless, a proper vote isn't public. Your vote should be anonymous and confidential, or it's going to be subject to the coercion of those in power and/or the majority
1:29 "what could you do if you had no fear?"
I think that is an inappropriate question. What happens to free will?
I really respect Sam.
Sam Young reminds me of Hans Madsen!
Yes i was told those sick words to very sick and a shocking not even a member ya he wanted to talk to me and yes he said those things to me
I see Brigham Young in his eyes. I really see a similarity, I can tell he's a descendent.
I’m Hyrum’s great great granddaughter. I look like a Smith
Sams Blog: invisiblescubit.wordpress.com
They never got ride of it
I've listened to a number of Mormon Stories now, and I have to say that while masterbation is a concern to the church (and yes, I'm aware of the addiction fear), why is it assumed that it's male masterbation 90+% of the time? Is it more acceptable for discussion to discuss male masterbation than female? Women can derive pleasure from their bodies, and do. But, and in all the things I've listened to, read on masterbation in LDS content, it seems to me, that women are embarrassed or incensed when asked about it in meetings with 'authorities', but do they engage in it doesn't seem to be addressed. (And, yes they do. And, yes, imho it shouldn't be anyone's business but a person's own....well maybe the spouse, or if it indeed reaches an addiction level where it becomes deleterious to one's own life - work, relationships, etc. etc.)
12
If you are going to keep the ten commandments of God and are so concerned about following Jesus's example, why don't you start by keeping the 4th commandment as he did. Your faith carries his name. The 4th commandment is found in Exodus 20:8-11. "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it." Again the 4th commandment is found in Deuteronomy 5 :12-15 "Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee.Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.
And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the Lord thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the Lord thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day." The Sabbath does not fall on Sunday. It happens to fall on Saturday! God bless you!
Sally Gray I'm sorry I was trying to reply to your comment and hit the wrong Icon. It sent in a report. Please forgive me? Now I can't undo it. I am a black ground SDA. I haven't been to church in a while. I choose to stay away because I feed my animals and milk my goats in the morning. I have a tendency to stay away from people because I don't like them sharing their viruses with me. I feel the SDAs are the closest to the Bible truth.
Unfortunately Sam Young has greatly misunderstood the scriptures he quotes and the historical facts he presents. These policies are not that of man or even the prophet; these policies come from the Lord Jesus Christ. I sustain the prophet, President Nelson, and his actions and know they are in line with the will of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ.