How Do GOOD and BAD Drummers Play Differently In The Studio?
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- Опубліковано 17 чер 2024
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Ouch, your worst drumming is better than my best drumming. Damn.
That was actually my best drumming, that's why I got someone else to be "good" haha
Excellent video - and it’s very true. My advice to drummers is, practise recording yourself with a single microphone, and make sure you can sound good that way. This video shows us that a drummer with a bad “mix” will not be helped in the studio by using 15 microphones on each thing.
Absolutely! Great advice. I've been doing a lot of one-mic drum recording lately. If the drummer has good control it can sound very balanced.
Great vid. Props to you for taking on the “bad drummer” role. 😆
I couldn't ask anyone else to do it! It's essentially asking someone to pose for the "before" picture
Someone's gotta be the heel😊😝
It honestly takes a good drummer to properly emulate a bad drummer
What other role could he take on?
This video should be mandatory viewing for every band that's going into a first time recording. The first time you see yourself on the grid, it's really eye opening.
Excellent video!
This was really insightful. Thank you for uploading.
Thanks so much! This is super valuable, I'll definitely try to pay more attention to my cymbal/drums dynamic levels from now on.
For my own playing, I love rim shots. I have been complimented often on my drumming skills, but I am not always consistent on my snare volume. I use different volumes, but it is not a lack of self control (ala this video).
My son is also a pretty good drummer. As far as timing, I play just ahead of the beat and I used to think that he was 'wrong' for being slightly behind the beat. However, his personality is so chill. It is laid back. As he got more proficient, I came to enjoy that laid back feel.
Personally, with the 'bad' drummer in the video, you can hear that his muscles have not been developed on the drums. Especially his left hand does not have the 'authority' of a true time keeper. I think this authority, which is really intangible to me (I cannot define it, I just know it when I hear it) is one of the most important traits of a musician. That is why Ringo of the Beatles is in my top 5 as a drummer, yet his style is so simple, a first or second year drummer could play most of his beats. Conversely, Paul McCartney is just a step above the (ousted) drummer, Pete Best, as he does not have any authority in his playing. Moreover, sometimes the highly proficient 'good' drummers will bore me to tears. There is a mystery to art where the rules can be broken and it can still sound good.
Timing and dynamics are everything!
Listening is the greatest asset! As one famous drummer once told Me “unless Your Neil Peart, Kiss it !
HEY 🥰 NEXT WEEK COOKING SHOW 🙄 WOW WITH 19 PIECE DRUM KIT !! LIVE IN ????😂😂
This was an excellent video. Using the audio and visual demonstration with your DAW really illustrated the point well. Thanks!
Cool! Keep them coming. Loving these videos
More to come!
This is super useful and nobody talks about it, it's great that you did.
Priceless demonstration, thank you.
Nice video Greg! Your personality comes right through the video. Let's catch up soon man!
Great video! Thank you so much for this! 👊🏼🥁🎶
A very constructive and useful lesson. Exactly this WAS always my problem without realizing why my records sound so sloppy and even bad. I have worked to play softer but still way to different volumes. Now I play the symbol softer and even and the snare. Now It sounds like I know how to drum. THANKS for this great lesson 👍
Wow this was soo good! exactly what i wanted to hear
Great info and analysis. Gonna show this to all problem drummers in the future!
the control is what really sets apart the great drummers, lots of beginners don't realize playing in time is not enough.
Cool video! Like this concept. I like how you showed the files too.
Where this gets really awesome is when you hear how compression responds so much better when a drummer can self-balance and plays for the tone. Sometimes that includes playing at an overall quieter dynamic to get a bigger sound after compression. Matt Chamberlain and Aaron Sterling, in particular, are masters at this.
Thank you, great video 👍👍
Great video! Thank you!
Thank you for this!
Thank you. That was useful!
Excellent vid, some good info here 👍
Great video filled with tips!! I wonder if these subtleties also hold for live drumming. The only clue I had was hit drums hard / hit cymbals soft.
Great vId! thank you!
Sometimes, just playing "heavy" doesn't compliment the song. Mitch Mitchell utilized his (non heavy snare), Jazz drumming influence when playing with Hendrix.
It just comes down to the matter of taste. Very simple.
Ive been a drummer for 25+ years and ive come to decide that its all about dynamics.....that dictates everything because it applies in all situations not just recording, but specific to recording, and you would think this to be obvious, but, playing the same parts identically so editing is smoother, ive seen dudes that literally shit out snowflake beats, snd never seem to play it the same way twice.
Very well said
Greatest crossover event in UA-cam history!
Wait til I make one on how Captain America sucks at bass
Guess you're right. The touch of any musician is REALLY important.
Now I know what fletcher means when he says are you rushing or dragging
I've had this described to me by my old teacher as mixing yourself as a drummer. Maybe describing it in this way might help.
Absolute gold
Great stuff
Wonderful video, I'm only 4 months in. But I've learned so much through this video. 😁
You 're same nice drummer back to era's that no Computers used to the studio !! At these years best drummer it was a groovy drummer and no one looks at the soft and hard hits so much. But is total known that hard hits on drums increasing the consistency and helps to keep better time.
Thanks 👍👍
Imo I prefer the sound of a longer hi-hat compared to like a short sound idk how to explain it
At least this is a good lesson in motivating me to keep at the rudiments and slow practice. What you can play doesn't really matter if how you play it isn't great.
Great musicians can make simple parts sound great. When people first start getting some chops it's all about playing the fastest, most complex thing. But Once you realize its consistency and accuracy that sets the best apart the game changes. The ultimate level is playing supper complex things and still keeping it consistent and only the best can do that!
This is why I like classic rock. Back in the 50's, 60's, 70's, and 80's, many recordings were done with a three mic set up, no computers, and a mixing board. Based on your standards RIngo Starr, Jon Bonham, Carmine Appice, Simon Phillips, Peter Criss, and a host of drummers would be considered bad drummers. Modern records today have a robotic feel and sound to them and sadly a lot of them have drum machines who give the perfect quantized robot time and levels. Great video.
That is such a good point. The current technology is so up your ass, the slightest inconsistencies can become a production problem, which can really stifle the performance; although inconsistent drumming can be a problem old school as well. I'm a both a drummer and keyboard player with a fair amount of recording experience.
That’s the first thing you’re facing when started recording yourself with a one mic.
6:20 it’s fine it’s like ELO
Great vid, but maybe put the camera further from your face. It looks kinda creepy.
Nah put it closer in the next video
Nah, the camera needs to be inside his nostril.
Yep, I’m in the bad category 😂
You’re just a lil stuff... relax and breathe... Matt Elich has talked about this... I was expecting Rib Hanford to come out and sing!!!
One man's trash is another man's treasure though. Levon Helm used to pull his hand off the hi hat to hit the snare. Bad technique. But it's something people are copying constantly. If everyone had perfect technique, there'd be no personality in drums. If you want perfect drumming, just use a sample drummer and it'll sound stale and unoriginal but the waveforms will look visually pleasing and it'll sound consistent. Some of the best drummers of all time speed up, slow down, don't have consistent dynamics. Some of the best drum tracks ever peak. Some imperfections are the difference between a good and bad drum track. It's all about what you're going for. Take a little risk sometimes. Obviously there's some balance but, imo, a good drum track lies between perfect and horrible.
For sure, I always prefer a human to a machine because of the slight imperfections and obviously looking at a waveform doesn't tell the whole story. For me it's more about intention. Is the drummer doing things "incorrectly" on purpose to create a feeling or just because they can't do it how they would like to. With my drumming I used in the example I am trying my best to be locked in and consistent, I just don't practice.
Dynamic range is the key, but not randomly executed.
I agree with your points, however, bad unbalanced drumming shouldn't be self justified as unique or musical. The ultimate goal is control to serve the music. Not all songs need heavy hi hats or booming crashes or in consistent snare hits. Having the control to hit the ride with a light touch, for example, will give you more musical options. There should be Intention in what you play.
Human imperfections are one thing, but passing something like inconsistent tempo or poorly controlled dynamics off as musical interpretation or personality is a bit of a cop-out, especially if the song doesn't call for that sort of thing. It's what separates the great drummers from the good drummers.
@@WhitePointerGaming What great drummers play perfectly? I guess I'll agree to disagree with you there man. If the goal was to just sit there and play on two and four never speed up never take risks taking fills, drumming would never evolve. Sure there's stuff I think sounds terrible I think there are drummers that are overly sloppy. The drummer in this video is pretty sloppy. But being an overly technical drummer that is too focused on just nailing rudiments and playing perfectly in time is vapid as hell. Taking risk and playing with personality is what separates a great drummer from drum teacher. There's nothing wrong with being a drum teacher, but I've always found it funny that when Modern Drummer magazine comes out and we talk about the best drummers of all time, we think of guys like Tony Williams, Keith Moon, Stewart Copeland, John Bonham, Mitch Mitchell, Danny Carey, Dave Grohl etc. I highly doubt any of those guys were sitting behind the kit like "I need to make this snare hit exactly as loud as the last one." That's just bullshit as far as I'm concerned and it's why most popular music is incredibly stale in the drum department these days.
dynamics
What do you think about DrummerUsed to playing rimshots
For certain styles like metal and hard rock I want the drummer to be rimshoting the snare every time! For lighter music probably not.
The evolution my understanding of what I need to be a good drummer:
Ok I just need to have good coordination.
Ok my arms can't take it. I need to learn to hold my sticks properly while coordinating my arms and legs.
Ok my average person sense of rhythm isn't enough. I need to pay attention to it while trying to hold my sticks properly while coordinating my arms and legs.
If I wanna play faster all said skills need to be even better.
Ok turns out I need to accent notes. I need to pay attention to the accents while paying attention to the rhythm while trying to hold my sticks properly while coordinating my arms and legs.
Ok so practicing on the pad does not translate to the drum set very well. I need to keep in mind the physics of all the cymbals and drums and to turning my body around while paying attention to the accents while paying attention to the rhythm while trying to hold my sticks properly while coordinating my arms and legs.
As a side quest, also I also need to find the height of the throne and my position on it and in relation to the drums set that fits me.
Ok now that I can play faster and longer my arm cramps are back in addition to the shoulder and back cramps. I need to stay relaxed while keeping in mind the physics of all the cymbals and drums and to turning my body around while paying attention to the accents while paying attention to the rhythm while trying to hold my sticks properly while coordinating my arms and legs.
Ok so my sense of rhythm is still awful. I need to start counting the notes (preferably out loud) at least from time to time while trying to stay relaxed while keeping in mind the physics of all the cymbals and drums and to turning my body around while paying attention to the accents while paying attention to the rhythm while trying to hold my sticks properly while coordinating my arms and legs.
Ok my band members complain that I'm being too loud. I need to pay attention to the volume while counting the notes while trying to stay relaxed while keeping in mind the physics of all the cymbals and drums and to turning my body around while paying attention to the accents while paying attention to the rhythm while trying to hold my sticks properly while coordinating my arms and legs.
Ok my band members and I constantly de-sync. I need to pay attention to what they are actually playing while paying attention to the volume while counting the notes while trying to stay relaxed while keeping in mind the physics of all the cymbals and drums and to turning my body around while paying attention to the accents while paying attention to the rhythm while trying to hold my sticks properly while coordinating my arms and legs.
Ok I just watched some video that tells me that not only do I need to pay attention to the volume but to the consistent and intentional volume of different parts of the set. I need to hit the same spot of each part of the set consistently with the same angle of the each hit while paying attention to what the band is actually playing while paying attention to the volume while counting the notes while trying to stay relaxed while keeping in mind the physics of all the cymbals and drums and to turning my body around while paying attention to the accents while paying attention to the rhythm while trying to hold my sticks properly while coordinating my arms and legs.
And my coordination, rhythm and technique still need to be worked on not to mention the advanced techniques of "shanking", "sliding", "moeller", etc.
Devil's instrument.
This is great, but how am I as a metal drummer focus at everything all at once? Speed, drum fills, double pedal, tempo and even strikes... It's hard to sound like a machine
dont smack the mic with your sticks helps quite a bit
do you ever play the drums
A good drummer on top of everything know how to tunes their set too. Ive heard too many chaotic out of tune drums. Huge pet peeve of mine.
Yeah but what about blast beats??
Relax, that's the only difference. 😉
You touch with your arm he touches with your wrist
i like your version more..sounds jazzy impromptu and unexpected
The other guy hits rimshots almost exclusively (except the ghost notes), he accents the hi-hats/other cymbals, plays consistently, and also plays on time. Playing on time vs playing sloppy is a thing that can be heard easily, and it is a huge factor when comparing what sounds good and what sounds bad. That is also what we can hear in the two performances shown here. Don't fool yourself thinking it does'nt matter... cause it does.
Otherwise you showed pretty much everything what makes a difference in the two performances, so good job there, but I had to point out that timing also does matter.
Do you put gate on each mic?
There was no gating or other processing on the mics
It sounds obvious but you didn’t mention flamming between kick and hi hat. It’s a common problem of beginners.
From the thumbnail I honestly thought it was Prince Harry playing drums!
You and the bag check lady at the airport
@@GMHAudio Who??
Phil Spector would be like: “They are both bad!” *pulls gun like that will help then play better* 😂
Can i just say as a drummer... you ain't meant to strike down on a cymbal to crash... it's more of a side swooping motion.
yeah lmao. took me months to get that motion properly lol
For some reason, drumming seems to attract show-offs who like to show everybody how many chops they have...
Here are some tips from a pro bassist if you are a cover drummer:
Learn the material. Do your homework. I spend countless hours learning bass lines as accurately as possible, and it's frustrating when a drummer is constantly throwing fills over the top of what I'm playing. If I have spent the time to learn the song correctly, you should too. That goes for everybody else.
Fix your meter by practicing to a metronome or practicing songs you do with headphones. This will correct your meter.
When you have a choice, less is more. Play less, not more. Space is good most of the time.
Quit drinking! I have seen drugs or alcohol ruin promising drummers by effecting the way they play. I have played with guys who start the first set or so playing magnificently, then devolving into a mess of loud, off-timed, overplayed garbage.
Use dynamics. Play with feel. Groove when necessary, keep it quiet when necessary, and drive the song when necessary. This is how you convey emotion with timekeeping.
Just my thoughts. Drummers that can do this are my favorite ones, and it does not take much effort, just playing smarter to accomplish this.
You will be in high demand if you can be this disciplined in a sea of hack, unprofessional drummers.
It sounds like you do know something about drumming
I didn't have a massive preference one way or the other I'm sorry
Don't be do hard on yourself😄
One important factor on the snare sound is that your bro is playing with what it's called 'rimshot' that makes a more focused sound. You hit only the snare head.
Yup! I try to get drummers to play rimshots on every snare hit if possible
Only thing is most “bad” drummers think they’re playing ok.
Why is all dialogue and audio all out of sync?
But your highhat is more driving then his on the 1st beat.
How bout a good drummer sounds better than a bad drummer 😂
It needs cowbell.
But what separates the good cowbell players from the bad?
1:43 - Matt beat 1
2:02 - Greg beat 1
2:30 - Matt beat 2
2:54 - Greg beat 2
Did this for an A/B for myself. I've heard a lot about the drummer being a huge factor, but I've never seen it demonstrated this clearly.
Thanks for doing this!
Your playing through the drum and cymbals. That's what I hear. Try and loosen up a bit and try not to hit the heads and brass so hard. Let's the sticks do the work not your arms. It's called dynamics. Likewise no where to hit the drums. Put some rim on the snare a bit and your snare sound will change to.
I can see you deliberately messing up the timing.
Drumming is a community based thing, there is no bad or good, just drumming. Differently. Helping each other.
Halfway through the vid, but to your credit... other than some wobbly time and inconsistency on the snare hits, I felt your performances had more energy.
Could contribute that to the louder playing on the cymbals, whereas your brother's cymbal playing was clearer and tighter and more controlled but both performances could have their place on a song.
Obviously overall your brother is the better drummer, but I don't think you sounded terrible at all, man. Regardless of how good anyone is anyway, playing live is a million times easier than recording tracks in a studio.
It's "Matt and I"... ;)
To be honest the timing was a big problem for me. Pushing and pulling in an unnatural way. As soon as you start using your eyes to judge a track then you're in big trouble. Have you considered self flagellation rather than air your self doubt publicly. There are millions of technically great drummers without any creativity. They are playing cruise ships and crap venues as we speak.
I don't consider myself a drummer in any sense and I'm not trying to be one either haha. That's why I put myself as the "bad" example because I have no ego about it. Wouldn't ask a real drummer to come in just for me to pint out their flaws, I'm not that cruel.
Bonzo would turn around in his grave if he would hear that rubbish
Your video and sound are out of synch !
Could stand to watch more than a few minutes. Drove me nuts !
Sorry, the info is great, I just couldn't watch more with it like that
You could've just said....
Dynamics.
And saved me the 11 minutes.
Shawn Paquett
Many drummers say they understand dynamics......and then you hear them play, and its obvious they dont.
I think these elements that you mentioned barely applies to pro drummers. Creativity plays a more important role.
Matt‘s timing is definitely tigher, sorry man, that is a difference
You are not wrong!
You're bad at volume control
I'm a great drummer 🙁☹
No difference at all
I find you better than your brother. He is robot playing..
This makes no sense. His brother could play sloppily if he wanted. Lack of control is not better.
Both not good drummers
And why exactly is that professor?