Why Does Roger Hate Push Fit Waste Pipe?
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- Опубліковано 14 лют 2023
- 📪 Ask Skill Builder: skill-builder.uk/send
Roger looks at some troublesome push-fit pipework in a bathroom.
Here's our message from Mike:
Love watching your channel. We are just renovating our bathroom.
We've been removing as much as we can, but this morning I noticed a leak coming through the kitchen ceiling.
Now, the bathroom sink was used and I think I found the issue. Looks like a fractured waste pipe.
The house is circa 1997/1998 and the plastic pipes feel very degraded.
Should I work on the basis that all plastic waste pipes should be replaced to prevent future issues like this?
Best Regards, Mike
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#HomeImprovement #plumbing #bathrooms
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Hi Roger. Here in Germany, glued joints in sewer pipes are unknown. We only use push-fits, from 40mm (1 1/2") 500mm (20"). An they work great. They are easy to install and, more important, to uninstall (ok, sometimes they fight you a little bit after decades). One needs little tools, just a bit of lubricant to smear onto the seals so they will push smoothly together. I never had trouble with them in any of my buildings. But that's just us Germans, who have no idea about technology. Love your YT channel, by the way. Keep up the good work.
I believe most of europe uses this kind of pipes for waste water, apart from cast iron which was used back in the days. Maybe better quality than those white ones which are shown here.
Push fits require them to be installed with perfectly smooth pipe (no scratches), needs to be fully supported. There are sometimes errors when they’re installed and the seal can be dislodged. To many things can go wrong. Solvent weld is superior.
I agree completely.
Interesting to know. In France, as I discovered last year, they don't do push fit. Or compression either. Solvent weld all the way.
Sewer pipes? Nobody welds sewer pipes. This is 32 and 40 mil stuff.
Used Push fit for many years with no problem. Much easier to disassemble in the event of a blockage. Example shown in the video has no support clips fitted.
As Roger said, push-fit fittings can fail under pressure. Whenever possible I include a compression fitting when using solvent weld pipework in case of a blockage.
Agree! You have to have some fall and you'll never have issues with pushfit! If water stays in pipes, nothing will keep it from leaking eventually
Strategically placed rodding eyes sort the blockage problem, push fit works IF it is well clipped, but usually it isn't.
Absolutely right. Pushfit is nothing but trouble in the long run. Like a lot of things I see in my work, it's been easy for the installer with no thought for the customer in the future. Solvent weld every time.
I am a plumber by trade, nothing wrong with push fit, used hundreds of times, so long as its treat in a professional way, I went to a replace a bathroom suite, and on the bath trap to the waste pipe was a rubber hose held on by jubilee clips, while I obviously don't condone this type of work, just consider that I had gone to replace this bath 20yrs after it was put in, so it had not leaked, so its not what you do, its the way that you do it!
With solvent weld pipes I always do a dry fit first then mark the pipes/joints with a marker pen so when you’re glueing/assembling theirs no panic about alignment
That is my method also when I can find my felt tip
I sold those over PP pipes over the trade counter years ago and they are a bloody nightmare. Often found different brands are slightly different sizes of 15/22/32/40mm and rubber rings are often different sizes too. Traders hate them, plumbers hate them and when they fail the public hate them too.
Early Wickes PP pipe and fittings were a slightly different size.
Abso bloody lutely! Solvent weld, always the way to go. The fumes make me feel ....funny. Bonus!
Have watched a lot of Roger's vlogs and go solvent weld all the way now ( tried push fit on shower waste, ripped it out for solvent weld not one leak), especially under floors where access can be an issue, the next project is to renew the waste on a double kitchen sink in solvent weld as the tap needs replacing so might aswell and the copper pipework needs a tidy up, keep the vlogs coming Roger 🙌
Listen to this man he know his stuff, just waiting on a long reach socket so I can change the taps on this double sink, and sort out the plumbing below....thanks Roger for your vlogs.
We've just moved into a house and the kitchen sink drain had a push fit bend outside just before it goes into the drain. Both of the o-rings had failed, one broken o-ring was on the floor and the other had presumably gone down the drain long ago so every time you used the sink more water ran around the outside of the pipe than on the inside. It's outside so it doesn't really matter and that kitchen will be replaced soon, so I just used some solvent cement to join it back together. I didn't think it would work because of the huge gap around the fitting where the o-rings would be, but it joined it perfectly fine and is now watertight.
I do like solvent weld a lot, very reliable and satisfying to use. However, immediately under basins I favour push fits for ease of moving around, or if you decide to take off the basin,or vanity , you can simply push things out of the way.
I'm also a big fan of always using flexi tap connectors, as again, you can remove the connector without risking bending copper pipe, or damaging it..
I like the flexi tap connectors. But I often see them install wrong, either twisted, or bent through impossible angles.
Flexi tap connectors have a limited life. They need to be replaced after, say, 10 years.
Why not compression waste?
Im with you on this one!
I do find it a little comical when plumbers go on about pushfit waste being dependent on o rings but will happily use and endorse pushfit plastic water pipes which depend on an o ring..much bigger mess if an o ring fails on a mains water pipe...
Great show old boy 👍
I'd argue that push-fit does have it's uses as it's quick, you can adjust angles in situ and it can be used immediately after fitting. But only were it's accessible, such as under a sink as I've used it here, and the joints can be used in such a way that they can't pull out. Anywhere else it's solvent weld with with the odd compression fitting when needed.
lol, in my country (CZ) we dont use anything else for waste other then pushfits, never heard of a a leak
I only use push fit in accessible places or if a section of pipe may need to be removed for maintenance purpose but even then I'll prefer the McAlpine adaptor with lockring. Anything indoors especially boxed in should be solvent weld as my rule of thumb.
Tend to use push fit at the back of bidets where there is simply no access to get your hands in to a compression of solvent weld joint. It allows the unit to be removed and reinstalled easily. Below tiled or fitted floors something ‘bullet proof’ is needed and solvent weld is the most reassuring with occasional compression fittings to get from one diameter pipe to the next.
Using push fit 22 or 40mm pipe is 100% satisfactory if the pipework is installed correctly ie straight and with the correct length of insert. It is also very much more convenient when replacing a sink waste trap with one that is slightly different from the original as making push fit new pipework is much easier to adjust than weld.
Spot on, nothing but problems
The thing is if you're not sure about solvent weld then a mechanical joint like mcalpine is a great alternative, there's just so little need for push fit on stuff under 110mm
Agree completely the McAlpine stuff is great
We won't let you starve Roger old boy. Keep the good work up. Thanks
Good to know. I prefer solvent weld for peace of mind. However, I also like pushfit for ease of fitting and disassembly (if clogged). Depending on a few factors, i wouldn't be against a mix of both, just ensuring quality conversion fittings are used in the right places.
Would avoid pushfit altogether if the pipe is taking large volumes of water (from a bath), or where there is a maceration pump.
I remember on site in 70s everything was solvent weld on soil piping and sink waists
Both fittings are available in 32 - 40 - 50mm (grey, black & white), so you can mix & match. A push fitting works as well as the plumber who fits it. I personally use solvent weld fittings in areas that are difficult to access afterwards. The rest is done in push fittings. It's a waste pipe, so is usually under no pressure.
Solvent weld has a 43mm external diameter (on the 40mm pipe) so they are a different size.
@@geoffcarlton4047 You can get universal 40-43mm adaptors.
I know someone who had a saniflow fitted and the plumber who installed it used push fit pipe which ran along a kitchen wall at high level, the pipe work blew apart and he had crap all over his kitchen. After that he wanted it all taken out and a 110mm soil pipe installed instead.
I knew where that story was going as soon as you said Saniflo
@@SkillBuilder insaniflo more like.
👍👍👍Thanks
It's good outside to make it easy to unblock near to the drain
Trouble is nobody seems to follow installation instructions. Just throw it in and hope for the best!
The world would be a better place if people read instructions manuals.
Why does nobody do a pushfit to solvent connecter in solvent weld?? Baffles me!
If you cut the solvent weld pipe across the diameter 3 or 4 times it will squeeze into a pushfit, blob of silicon and boom.
I had a solvent weld waste attached to my dishwasher and the hot water melted the joint due to the pipe being so thin. Replaced it with push fit which is a thicker pipe.
i have never seen that, it takes boiling water.
I never seen one in Ireland it's all solvent weld... how much easier can you want it... cut the pipe take the harass off it put a bit of glue on it shove it in and make sure you give it a bit of a twist to make sure the glue is all around
'send me more comments, I've got too many' - typical builder resource management!🤣
I am a DiYer, I hate them too always have. In the rented house I am in just now they are everywhere, they must have been installed professorially.
Whole europe is running on that. And I won't even mention how many times you find cracked waste welded pipes. They are not resistant on movement and pressure. This reminds me on discussion about pex. And in USA they started before 70 years. So 70 years later... Taa-daaa... It's still working. Same in Europe. Its working for over the 40 years for now,what I found on. Before they use lime.
You should do a pipe pressure test every time you altera pipe /drain
yes and who does that?
Just looks like the pipe in the wall is too short and not all the way into the push fitting.
Easy to use and replacable but I would not use these in inaccesible locations. The ones I use have a seal with a douible lip not an o-ring.
yeah or a rat chewed through it.
A push fit waste pipe failed under a bath in a house we bought and emptied the bath’s content into the room below, awful stuff.
Nothing wrong with push fit pipe
It depends on the situation though. Here it looks like the person who installed it couldn't keep the pipe in the wall still to push the joint onto it as there was nowhere to grab it and probably no one outside to press it into the joint. I would say solvent welded pipe is best and as a DIYer I have used it a few times and been happy with it. With a welded joint you could have glued that joint onto the pipe first and then pushed the pipe through the wall when the weld had cured. Even if you did that with a push fit, as soon as you started working on the rest of the pipework (inside and out) then you are risking upsetting that joint/seal.
I don't even use John guest fittings or poly, I swear solvent weld is so much cheaper!
Anything that cant be accessed should be glued and tested before closure off
I am a plasterer by trade, nothing wrong with push fit. Keeps me in plenty of work repairing ceilings after leaks.
Rip all the plastic pipes out and start again. Glue it all together.
Plumber's make leaks possible🤣
DIYer's make leaks enviable 🤣🤣
Roger couldn't fail to mention his wallet 🤣😭🤣😭
Is your mike cable made from push fit? Looks like it's come away.😄 Every single plumber I've ever employed has used push fitttings.
The mic cable has a mechanical clip to retain it
Can you please do a video on press fit
We have done one ua-cam.com/video/z6jDh0sPLH0/v-deo.html
Worse than that. 22mm and 21.5mm solvent weld pipe for boiler condensate. The plumber who fitted the boiler blow torched a 22mm pipe to fit a 21.5mm elbow and then bored out a 21.5mm pipe to fit the spigot from the boiler. Ceiling damaged and all replaced by me. Not a plumber but also not a damn fool. Why do we have 21.5mm AND 22mm ANYTHING?!!!! Standardisation started mid 18th century but hasn't made it as far as plumbing in the UK. I've got it out - I feel better. Dave
Sounds really iffy to me. I'd check to see if he was GasSafe registered.
Overflow pipe is not 22mm. Welcome to the wanky world of the imperial metric mishmash of plumbing. It’s a joy!
@@trisrush9155 22mm fits the spigot from the boiler for condensate. 21.5mm does not. Somebody needs to take responsibility for this utter nonsense.
@@davedawson9851 maybe should have bee run in 22mm lol! Not o/f!
pushfit, available in all shapes and sizes, but never the one you want. Solvent all the way. Apart from pan connectors, prompts best if you can, otherwise a Good push fit installed well is almost as good. And don't get me started on the jigsaw puzzle of crap they give you with posh basins and double drainer sinks. Or get me started on gas "engineeres" that can't get a watertight solvent weld on condensate pipework yet can manage gas tight. Must be the plumbers job, right, lol. Or get me started on sillicone plumbers.
Is that pipe actually allowed by code there? The only push fit allowed in the US is in large sewer, drainage or watermain applications. That stuff would never be allowed inside a structure here in the US.
It is allowed because nobody cares
@@SkillBuilder Sad. I'm back off to Greece in May where I am always looking at the interesting way they do things in other countries. Gotta make a trip back to GB as I haven't been since the 90s despite it being a direct flight and flying is easy for me. One of these days I'll need a list of hardware stores etc to go check out there.
Do you have the same opinion of push fit on 15mm pipe Roger ?
No I love that because it stays put.
Isn't it then a bit strange how we suddenly trust push fit 110mm underground waste pipes, even buried in a concrete slab?!
Roger . I am building 2x new apartments . What is the best solution for heating , hot water and for a fire in the living room ?
anything push fit on uk market < 100 mm (4'') is junk ATM and once they get good product they need to learn; spigot goes into socket (male to female) on the way out.
2.46 was that a fart🤣
Who knows, can you smell it?
Push fit dominates Lithuania too
I detest that push fur stuff. If you're going through a wall then you need to drill a bigger hole than the pipe diameter in order for the pipe to not stick out of the wall, unless like my neighbour's done where the pipework down to the gulley stands off the wall by about 2 inches.
Push fit is polypropylene and shouldn't be used outside - it degrades in sunlight.
So probably incorrectly installed in the first place?
I've seen some of this installed in the 70's and not a drip!
However you'd never reuse it, once you disturb it it's game over!
Nothing wrong with push fit. Been using for 20 plus years. Needs good preparation. Clean and chamfered pipes and fittings and clipped well.
There is no expansion in solvent weld and have seen it crack as the plastic gets brittle over time.
Plus boiler condensate fittings are failing due to reaction with glue or plastic and then will affect further pipes that it’s connected to.
I always thought solvent cement was just meant to melt the plastic together - I.e. There's no glue as it just melts the plastic into a single continuous part? In which case, I'm not sure how boiler condensate fittings would fail due to being solvent welded.
You are right, the clue is in the name 'weld' not glue hence the reason it will not stick polypropelene or the sole back on my boot.
There’s no getting away from the fact that condensate fitting are failing! Plus solvent pipe gets brittle over time and cracks!
If I'm tiling a bathroom and it's push fit the customer has to sign a waver or let me replace it all with solvent weld
100%! get rid and start again I hate push fit!
Why don't people just use solvent weld? It's got a failure rate of about nothing!
Why would you not use solvent weld? if your a competent plumber. They are cheaper to buy, no leaks, no return visits, no damaged ceilings floors. And most of all peace of mind. But it can we messy so wear latex gloves .
I don't want a push fit in my waste pipe but each to their own.
I said a long time ago how too many experts are giving away free advice on UA-cam.
I love you guys for what you do.
I see and meet all kinds of trade guys on my job all the time and they are polite, sound and helpful.
👍♥️
Is there anything Roger doesn’t hate?
I tend not to hate people but then again......... I will always make exceptions.
@@SkillBuilder 😢 but then I’d miss your rants, and that would make me very sad.
And of _course_ it went inside the wall.
Yes it is always the way
Waste not...
Very good
You are no plumber if you use pushfit.
So why is push fit still used on newbuilds and for that matter why do plumbers merchants stock it all day long and sell it to "plumbers".
@@glennpowell3444 Most newbuilds I've seen are built to a budget rather than a quality, merchants sell it mainly to DIYers
Pushfit in the UK is shit, but in Europe is perfect. And things can't get dislodged because they are embedded in concrete and bricks. No wood and plasterboard over there. Chamfer the pipe end, lubricate and push, 50 years guaranteed. Anyway underground pipework is pushfit in the UK as well. Orange pushfit
I said waste pipe not soil pipe. If you are putting it in the ground then it is completely different
I don't want to sound too critical, but if you have to seek advice about what to do in that sort of situation, perhaps you should think twice about doing the job yourself. First rule of DIY is know your limitations!
If I had that attitude when I started out as a builder I’d still be making the tea.
Kama
The world moves forward with people who know no limitations, not with those who are frightened by challengs and too produd to ask advice.
Because it's shat!
Absolutely agree mate rip out and start again, push fit is awful it doesn't matter how well you think you might have done it there's always a risk but with solvent weld my phone doesn't ring and know matter how many clips you put on pushfit it's prone to sagging and to finish off it looks shite.
Send your questions in ….while it’s still free 😆😆🧱👍🏽