Never Use Romans
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- Опубліковано 9 гру 2018
- It’s not quite as popular as John 3:16, but Romans 1:20 is a frequently-heard verse in apologetics circles. But unlike the gospel passage proclaiming to all the good news that god so loved the world that he sent his son, this Romans verse is a terrible one to use with non-Christians if you want them to become believers.
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God - Knock Knock
Me - Who's there?
God - God, let me in, I love you and I'm here to save you.
Me - Save me from what?
God - From what I'm going to do to if you don't let me in.....
Every religion, same paradox, same fear tactic.
You- knock knock.
Jesus- yes who is it?
You- it is me I died.
Jesus- depart from me I never knew you.
Those that know Jesus he will tell them well done good and faithful servent. We will be there for eternity.
@@redeemedone8553
How do you feel about all of those people who don't get let in? Is it good riddance, they don't matter? Are you really that heartless?
@@badlydrawnturtle8484 I am here posting hoping that you and others will turn to Jesus for the forgivness of sin. God made a way for us to be in right standing with him. Please do except the forgiveness of your sins. I want you to be in Gods kingdom with me:-)
@@redeemedone8553 Quite the contrary, it is GOD WHO NEEDS TO BE FORGIVEN for deliberately creating man n a flawed condition and knowing well in advance that his creation would make wrong choices, and for what? Just so he could have the pleasure of punishing him for doing something he didn't even know was wrong in the first place?
It is GOD WHO NEEDS
FORGIVENESS for sending a flood that killed every living thing
(save but a chosen few) on this planet because of errors in his "perfect
plan. It is GOD WHO NEEDS FOGIVENESS for allowing mind numbing atrocities like the Inquisition, the Holocaust, millions of people dying every day from starvation, disease and mistreatment, children with cancer.
I could go on but my point should be well taken by know.
Your God is either impotent, uncaring or, most likely, does not exist.
I have read the bible many times. I am ok lrtting God be God. The wrath of God looks like it is not much fun.
Isn't it funny that god is 100% real and makes his existence plain to everyone, yet Christianity only appeared in one place and had to be spread by missionaries rather than spontaniously appearing in every culture independently.
Odd that.
Maybe, instead of listing to this guy, you could step out of the New Atheist echo chamber, and look up "Romans 1:20 exegesis." You find very quickly, that this cartoon character does not understand hermeneutics. The verse does not say "every point of Christianity is clear to everyone," rather it says, " God’s invisible qualities- *his eternal power and divine nature* are clear"
This is obviously affirmed in all cultures, as pretty much all cultures have some sort of god or higher power. It is you atheists who are delusional. You cannot satisfactorily explain anything because you lack a belief in God.
ahahahahahaha!
Oh no, you're serious. Let me laugh harder.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Hugh Mann
I would be nice if you could actually respond with a refutation. Laughing won’t really help your case.
Your arguements are self refuting. I have nothing to add except pointing and laughing. Nothing I could add would refute your arguments better than their own existence.
Which part is self-refuting?
Sounds to me like you don't know or else you would have already said it.
If I was a “non-believer” who just wanted to deny god so I could sin I would just just be a believer who sinned every day and repented before bed so all my sins could be absolved before I went to sleep. Then I could be a believer who sinned all I wanted to and still go to heaven.
Comment of the day
@@Paulogia Thanks!
✔️
You can outright murder, steal, fornicate, lie, or gut babies in the street and not bother praying... So long as you accept Jesus is your savior then it doesn't matter what you do... That's Christianity. According to christian doctrine Adolf Hitler as a christian is in heaven, despite his very last act being murder. Hitler was catholic and has never been excommunicated. But Ann Frank a Jewish teenager is in hell for being Jewish. Thats religious morality for you. Take instinctive morality, twist it to suit, add bullshit, and cook generation after generation on a low gas mark for two thousand years.
They just don't like to be reminded that they don't need to take responsibility for their actions.
@@petergostelow Where is the sin ,jesus died for?Why do we keep sinning?Your logic may work on the huddled,ignorant ,masses,yearning to be told what to do,I,m not a believer ,show me ?
When I was growing up, I thought "God" was just something people said. It wasn't until high school that I began to realize that some folks really believe in a god. The whole notion struck me as silly but to each his own. It wasn't until the last few years that I've had that passage thrown in my face. That is one of the stupidest things anyone has ever said to me. The only purpose for it that I can think of is to create an Us Vs. Them mentality. The very fact that you need to do this (supporting an unsupportable assertion with another unsupportable assertion) is fairly strong evidence that this is one big ass con game. It really confuses me how people who use this passage can't see that.
I'm hoping to shed some light... will see. Tough to see with blinders.
@@Paulogia Agreed. I really hope this video that you've made here helps someone to see things from a different perspective. I don't know squat about the bible or religion. Trying to wrap my brain around it only results in a warped brain and an empty whiskey bottle. That's why I value former christians so much. They let me peek into the mind of a believer in a way that I can grasp. Theists just confuse the crap outta me.
I do on occasion listen to sermons from a pastor of a church I used to go to. He often talks about churches having to close down.
There the whole idea that the world is going to a tribulation period (but rapture first) soon and society being less Christian is part of it. I am not sure if he cites that romans verse but I he does talk about how people want to sin and avoid god in there lives.
His sermons also seem to guilt Christians if they are falling away or being lukewarm.
I do not know how that Church is still operating with such depressing speeches.
@@NonstopRam
Depression is demobilising. And fear is a very powerful tool.
What's so ridiculous about people believing in God?
Can we all take a moment to appreciate that he animated the character to blink?
He had to do a lot to make that happen. Characters don‘t just blink by themselves. If you do not program them right, the tshirt blinks.
Thank Evolution it knew how stuff needs to happen plus it‘s pretty
Sounds just like conspiracy nuttery too, "The fool has said in his heart there are no chemtrails!".
General workings of cults
🤣🤣this is gold
Saying they dont exist wont change the fact that they do in fact exist. Whatever. Keep living in fantasy land 😁
@@whatstarsreallylooklike2944 Saying that they do does not make them real either. Present real evidence and people like me will change their minds. You might want to learn what evidence is first, though. You seem to be having difficulty telling facts from fiction.
LOLOLOLZ!
My heart is dark because there isn't a hole in my chest
I am glad to hear that. You do however have a few holes in your head. You have two right above your pie hole.
I'm sorry to hear that
🤣
@William @ Fred B Izuku Midoryia @Cultusfit
If you really want to understand the scripture he is talking about then please watch this one minute clip ua-cam.com/video/GuMC_Dj0PvQ/v-deo.html
You all seem to me like you might be atheists, are any of you one? If so why did you become or decide to call yourself an atheist? What kind of atheist are you exactly? What really sells you on that?
Do you believe your life, body, family and the ground you walk on are all a gift or something else? If you believe they are all something else then what do you think they all are then?
At least basing on profile picture I can say that You're beautiful
Faith: a piss poor substitute for thinking.
Do you know you are going to wake up tomorrow or have faith you will?
🤔
@@HandlesAreStupid2024
You're completely confusing the meaning of "faith." Please, before you respond, think!
@@HandlesAreStupid2024
Expecting that you'll wake up next week is entirely based on evidence. It's an experiment carried out every day by everyone. There is also evidence that one day you won't wake up.
Faith not required.
Rely on the evidence.
You just described every Evolutionist. Believe against empirical science abiogenisis and higher form life forms come from lower.
I love how "God's _invisible_ qualities" are supposed to be plainly seen. But there _are_ no contradictions in the Bible, amirite?
munstrumridcully
C’mon, the trees man! The trees! And other creations *definitely* from God.
🌲🌲🌳🌳🌈⭐️✨
@@MMAGamblingTips lol :)
@@quantumeraser4833
Common definitions of relevant terms -
*Atheism* : disbelief in or lack of belief in a god or gods. Period.
*Philosphical Materialism* : the doctrine that only matter/energy and its movements and modifications exist.
*Physicalism* : The doctrine that only the physical world exists. There may be things that *seem* like they are not physical, but when examined closely, they are physical systems or supervene on the physicsl. (From the Stanford Philosophy Encyclopedia)
*Idealism* : The doctrine that only the mental exists and the physical is ultimately just a projection of the mental.
*Dualism* : The doctrine that mental and the physical are separate substances that make up ultimate reality.
As atheisms is _only_ a disbelief in or lack of belief in of a God or gods, atheists can accept any of those ontological positions or none of them.
Information and quantum _physics_ are both important areas of study in _physics_ . There is no scientific consensus that information is non physical.
Thank you for posting. :)
@@quantumeraser4833 So word salad and gibberish. There are around 11-14 different interpretations and not one has been demonstrated as the correct view. Invoking Quantum mechanics as if it is proof of a God, as, again, *atheism is **_only_** the disbelief in or lack of belief in a god or gods* , is a red herring fallacy.
Once again you conflate atheism with something it is not, like "naturalism" and "materialism", without any justification. Atheism alone does not automatically make that atheist a naturalist or anything else.
Atheism, for the last time, is _disbelief in or lack of belief of a God or gods_ . To demonstrate that these positions (strong and weak atheism) are inaccurate, one needs to _demonstrate that a god or gods exist_
Arguing against naturalism and or Materialism by misusing quantum physics doesn't demonstrate any God or gods. It is a separate issue!
Lastly, if you don't know that scientific consensus, reached via _extreme_ testing of theories, is an integral part of the scientific process, then your understanding of science is...lacking to say the least. All one need do to change the scientific consensus is to scientifically falsify the theory in question, and or provide a better theory, with more predictive power and that better explains observations.
Appealing to the scientific consensus is to appeal to the best explanations for phenomena that currently exist. It is not fallacious because it is a probablistic argument and not a deductive, absolute one. Maybe you should look into inductive vs deductive reason and argument.
Consensus on a theory, which is always provisional, has the best predictive and explanatory power and that theory is well tested, but never proven, is how science works. The argument is _not_ "most scientists accept X so X is true" , but rather "X has been tested and retested, never failing its predictions and is the best explanation science currently can offer. To offer an alternative, one must put that hypothesis to the same rigorous testing and it must have greater predictive power"
Are you a troll?
Thank you for posting. Your gibbering ravings have given me great entertainment. Have a nice life. :)
IFKR
It also doesn't help that the passage is stupid. It's like saying that people believe in Apollo and simply deny it because the sun's daily passage through the sky is proof of Apollo.
Exactly, people need to stop denying Apollo's existence.
Not only that, but diseases are obviously evidence of the arrows of Apollo. And art exists. How can art exist without Apollo?
@@simongiles9749
Good point, but Aphrodite might account for art - goddess of love and beauty, but then we are back to gods again! What a mess!
@Kevin McDougall
I did not know that about Sampson - thanks. But it is clear that all these religions are just evolutions of earlier myths. And the new believers condemn the old as heretics.
Nice.
To the contrary, ALWAYS use Romans 1:20 on non-believers. It's great for a laugh, and making the Christian all flustered when you respond with "If we're allowed to claim the other person is actively lying about what they believe, then clearly you know God isn't real." The responses to that are gold.
John 3:16-18
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
Romans 6:23
"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
@@marcush7480
"And lo, the great King of the Cheeses declared that the moon would be made of his holiest green cheese and light the world in the dark whence it had been deserted by the Sun of the Queen Firefly!"
-The Totally Credible Account of The Way Things Definitely Are, Volume 6, Page 219, paragraph 70
Mindlessly quoting bible passages that aren't even relevant to the topic doesn't convert people. Especially when they're the same passages that are always quoted, so it's not even knew information for anybody. I like my passage better, and caution you that if you dare reject the revelations of the TTCAoTWTDA, you're going to be submerged in boiling milk for all eternity when you die. The infinite negative consequence of not prostrating yourself to His Whole-Milkyness means you should totally believe it, just in case.
or the bronze serpent from Numbers 21
and if that’s not a graven image, I’m not sure how.
@@marcush7480
*ALL* 'gods' qualities are invisible.
almost like they don't exist at all.
Mysterious ways bro aha or like you said invisible ways.
The trouble with things that are invisible and things that aren't there is that often it is hard to tell the two apart.
So you don't know that it's wrong to lie, steal, cheat, hate, covet, etc? Really? I think you do.
@@fjordhassion8295 That has nothing to do with any deity. Try thinking for a change instead of spouting the dogma taught to you by other ignorant men
@@fjordhassion8295 Sure, just like other animals that have evolved a social group - go gods required. Furthermore, with no forgiveness available, atheists have no choice but to stick to them and take full responsibility if they fail. Atheists must do gods' work because there are no gods to do gods' work.
Ham and Aigs gets stuck in my head whether or not its included, makes me smile.
Back to that soon!
Please, I don’t understand the lyrics of Ham & AIGs. Could you post them?
@@tqnohe when I sing it, its "flip em, fluff em, ham and eggs!" But I could be wrong....
@@goatgod2009It's "flip 'em flop 'em".
Ham and eggs (the menu is established)
Ham and eggs (and re-iterated for emphasis)
I like my eggs upside down (says the singer, stating a preference for the way that their eggs are cooked)
I like my eggs nice and brown (this line could theoretically be the voice of a second person with a contrary view to the first, or perhaps a further requirement for the eggs from the previous line)
Flip 'em (says the upside-downer)
Flop 'em (says the nice-and-browner, if a contrary opinion)
Flip 'em (a rejoinder to the previous line)
Flop 'em (and again, forming a euphonious back-and-forth argument structure)
Ham and eggs (they both agree upon this combination as satisfactory regardless of the style of egg-cooking)
Thank you (takes a bow, his trousers rip).
I feel so sorry for Ken, he can't ever meet Jesus. Jesus was a Jew, and pork, such as ham, is forbidden to Jews
God became man so he could sacrifice himself,
to himself,
to save us all from himself.
I am a true believer, I truly believe there is no god.
@2consider Using a book verse to prove that book is true, I believe its the same as hobbits are real because I read Lord of the rings. A wise man once said extraordinary claims must be proved with extraordinary evidence. That which is claimed without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.
I know god does not exist the same way I know hobbits don't. Let go of your superstitions, be free and make the very most out of your life, cos its the only one your going to get.
@2consider
Your request about needing evidence is a good one. Please forgive my not understanding why you have TOTALLY forgotten about all of different sciences that have provided much evidence and in areas that are still not fully understood, are daily finding more and more evidence. Your personal ignorance is not proof of anything except for your lack of knowledge. Science has made claims and those claims that have withstood the tests continue. The Bible continually fails in its major claims and has been repeatedly shown to be a bronze and iron age collection of myths, homilies, fables, morality plays, mixed with some local culture
@2consider You can not prove a negative, its like me saying i have an invisible orange goat, only I can see, touch, hear etc it, now prove it does not exist. You can't.
I do not need to prove that a complex system could arise without a creator, until you prove there is one.
I believe that in the entire field of provable knowledge, never has a super natural reason been the answer. Every thing that can be explained is always explained by natural forces. If you want to know what happened in the very beginning of the universe well no one knows for sure, but please don't quote that something from nothing rubbish , because then I would have to wonder where your god comes from as something ''cab't come from nothing'''. I do wonder why you are on an atheist site though ? do you think you have the magic argument that will change our minds ? Sorry but the very best of you have been laughed out of court.
@2consider
I really like your assertions that demonstrate your inability to comprehend my statements. Oh well. As to your degree, it could also mean that you are technically a bachelor. Your comment about being technically a scientist gave me a good chuckle. Thank you. As to knowing the Bible, I am a former pastor and am likely to know more than you, however, I am not so arrogant as to make that claim unlike yourself. As is quite well known in biblical studies, there are many problems with the narrative about the truthfulness and historicity of the Bible. There are writings that you are likely unaware of that show the moral teachings and civil laws of cultures that predate Christianity. Sometimes by millenia. One that I like is King Ashoka.
As for Christianity, a look at the empires that conquered the Palestinian area and you yourself could trace the influence of those cultures. Babylon was Zorastrian. The changes in judaic theology is clear. Even the Babylonian chief God was adopted. His name was El. This name permeates the Bible because it is
human nature to borrow from others. Monotheistic ideas from Egypt ie Akhenaten, also Isis and Osiris. The Greeks and Romans also modified Judaism and later the splinter cult of Christianity which grew only because of the fact that it became the state religion of Rome. Something similar with Islam becoming a state religion and spreading. It is a hard thing to believe in a fairy story when you know how your belief came to be. As for science, I don't believe in scientists. They're just people. It is the method of discover, and the subsequent follow up experiments that either validate or nullify. This is in contrast to religion which falls apart upon really close scrutiny. It is a shame that we are only able to converse this way. You seem like a decent person who has been influenced by the dominant religion of his area. You probably know those who root for the local sports team (you?) only because it's the most popular in the area. Take care and look closely at the origin of your religion. It will not stand the scrutiny
@2consider
Well you have proven the point that you are not worth talking with. I tried but your behavior is not worth my time because you are nothing more than a troll and I made the quintessential error and fed a troll. Farewell
I saw that as "Romulans 1:20". Need. Moar. Coffee.
Lol actually I did too! Star Trek is LIFE!
Romulans are just pissed off Vulcans.
We know more than biologists, who are debating whether viruses are "alive". ^_^
And what it would be? Always start with a cloacked attack? :3
@@LetruneInedil I thought that passage contained the 285 Ferengi Rules of Acquisition.
I heard an apologist once say in a documentary that if Paul knew people were going to use his letters for doctrine he would have been a lot more careful about what he wrote. I think I can start to see why
Whenever I hear that I don't believe because I "love to sin" or "want to sin," I am reminded of how my mega-Christian girlfriend in college handled this dilemma.
Before I get to that, the idea that someone can simply not believe ANYTHING, when the actually DO believe, is childish and maddening. It's stupidity with extra steps.
Here's how my college girlfriend handled this.
One night, after a session of sinful pre-marital sex, she asked me how many partners I'd had, including her. The number was low, but I was honest. Her number was over three times mine, and then she said, "The difference between you and me is that I am forgiven, and YOU are not."
The steps for what she does are:
1. Engage in a "sin."
2. Go get forgiven.
3. Repeat steps 1 and 2, as if you learned nothing.
That's it.
For that reason, I would suggest that people who are Christians LOVE to sin, because they have a get-out-of-hell-free card, in the form of forgiveness.
PS: If you never get married, then sex can never be pre-marital. ;)
Apparently non-believers love to sin, but christians are oh so happy to tell you that they aren't perfect (ie they sin), so really there is no difference other than that which you mention. I guess god is dumb enough to fall for it.
That’s not how it works. If you accept Jesus and are saved you try your best not to sin anymore. If you slip up and say a cuss word then you repent. But if you are truly saved you will work hard not to sin.
I see.
@@NikiLivi5what I’m getting is “well, she wasn’t a REAL Christian.” And I’d ask how you know that your interpretation of Christianity is correct and hers is wrong. (Respond if you feel like it but I won’t be coming back to this comment section.)
The last time I argued with a theist, I was told by him, “You are not an atheist, you are a believer who is very deeply lost.”
Riiiight.
@Atheist Deprogramming He is not apparent or necessary to me. In fact, the very question if there is a god, seems more of an interesting thougth than an important one.
@Atheist Deprogramming wow, wow, wow. wow. You met the big boss PERSONally? Well, I guess that would change anybodies mind.
So, what are his opinions on current events? Is he really forklift certified? Or were you not talking about such things?
@Atheist Deprogramming And to protect vulnerable (be they Jewish or otherwise) people from Calvin, Gregory XIII and Torquemada as well? Or rein them in, to some decree?
Will that be done? And why didn't He answer Mark O'Shiro at all? Not one bit.
Also, what is a 'natural angel'.
@Atheist Deprogramming Can people ask Him those things? Will He do that? Would He do it without being asked, due to being moved to do it? By love, a preference for justice, or finding some things 'detestable'?
Many humans would, after all.
@Atheist Deprogramming So, then, why would a soon after medieval Jew, who'd not seen convincing evidence a Mossiach had really come, do those things? Especially within a potentially hostile culture, claiming to speak for Him?
I guess they'd speak to the God of their Fathers, for sure, but not necessarily a new one.
And again, not everyone even knows they are in danger, let alone need to ask.
Finally, when is the last time you asked - and on what scale was a result? Or failing you, a close acquaintance.
My favorite bible verse is John 4:20 (finish giggling before you read it).
If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
This sums up everything Christianity SHOULD be, and even though I am not, never have been, and never will be a believer, I would have more respect for the “faithful” if they lived by this verse.
“Why do you call Me Lord Lord and not do what I say?” -Jesus.
Thomas Binney well u re not their brother by u re own admittance
chris532008 They don’t treat each other that way either, smart guy.
TL;DR
Christianity would be more convincing if more Christians acted like Christians, if supposed Jesus followers actually followed Jesus.
@@johnwalker1058 “And I will declare to them ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you who practice lawlessness!’”
I don’t expect you to know most things about Christ, but do you think hating lawlessness doesn’t constitute following Christ, when He hated it Himself?
When Christians quote the bible to me I respond with Harry Potter quotes.
At least we know who wrote the Harry Potter books, so it 1-ups the Bible in that regard.
Haha. Same, only I use the Silmarillion
@@SirFailsalot91 and the good guys do everything in their power to stop the bad guys so that 2 up
My go-to is Greek mythos. Stuff like Ovid’s Metamorphoses are so batshit insane when taken literally that it helps to make the point.
Me too!!! Lol
Y'know, the Qur'an is pretty much entirely re-iterations of these arguments. Things exist, therefore Allah. And if you don't agree, you're doing it on purpose(*) and you'll burn forever. Rinse and repeat for 114 surahs.
(*) Except Allah made you that way in the first place, for the lulz.
Simon Giles
I just read The End of Faith by Sam Harris. He lists all those Surah's on the chapter on Islam. It's no damn wonder that so many Muslims think that non-believers are wicked and worthless. What a revolting book...
It is the same for the Christian god -- if you say that he is omniscient/all-knowing and omnipotent... which most sects believe.
The Christian God creates you and knows everything you will do and it is in line with "gods plan". You cannot change gods plan, and your every choice is known from the moment of your birth.
In this scenario, everything anyone ever does is gods will and we only have the illusion of choice -- afterall we dont have the power to change gods plan! So god creates people who are and always have been, damned to hell. They are created specifically to fulfill some part of gods plan and those actions lead to their eternal torture in hellfire.
The atheist and hobbyhistorian in me instantly liked it and gone snarking... so, sorry but you inspired me. :3
"Except that there was only 70something surahs origi-... Oh, oh right, second crusade had a religious shift too. So, what was the new version?
...What do you mean the same old, with less parables and more stupid laws? Okay, fine, you k ow what, I do my own religion, with blackjack and cookies!"
And thus, instead of 482 religions, we had 512 (some schizm happened on which version of blackjack should be used and what constitutes as a cookie).
With a "give Mo whatever he wants" every cycle too.
Robert Miller Yeah... Like a flying carpet, a magic three-use mirror and a pegasus. TOTALLY not cribbed off of earlier stories from the region... :3
This might explain why so many Christians, who have so little knowledge of the world, including their own biblical history, are 100% certain that they have one up on me. I get so tired of hearing, "I'll pray for you". ... when all I have done is point out a false statement or belief.. Does anyone understand this?
My response to "I'll pray for you" is "I'll eat a sandwich for you. Both of those things won't contribute anything to the situation, but at least I'll have a full stomach and have shit to show for my action"
@@TheKyrix82: If they were only capable of seeing the logic of this sandwich analogy..
But alas, the christian mind basis it's logic on feelings alone... one must see the logic of substituting imagination for reality, before one can understand the mind of a Christian fundamentalist. Study the psychology of the child mind and it will become clear what is happening here.
@2consider I believe that at some point after eating a sandwich, I will be forced to use the toilet...or do laundry. I am certain this belief is factual through trial and error
@2consider: the word belief already indicates that there is the possibility that you're wrong.. ... the word fact on the other hand, indicates no possibility that I'm wrong. This is why in science we deal with facts and ignore beliefs. ..while religion is based entirely on beliefs.... no facts = high probability of wrong.
@2consider The issue is, that you can't comprehend something that's designed unless you have something NOT designed to compare it to. People like to use the watch on a beach thing, but here's a more accurate one. Imagine you're on a beach, and you spot a grain of sand and pick it up, and marvel at just how amazing it was that someone designed that single grain of sand.
And here's the thing: not all life is complex. Early life was not. And thank you for bringing up the washing machine, which is, in fact, a fantastic example of evolution, rather than intelligent design. An early washing machine was just a ribbed board that your scrubbed clothing over. And over time, as technology advanced, new features were added, and others were dropped as no longer being needed. Note that you won't find ancient roman washing machines and tumble dryers.
My favorite part is his “invisible qualities” lmfao
This verse is actually one of the verses that made me doubt the Bible. Because, if everyone already knows, why evangelize? Why do we need missionaries if everyone is born with the knowledge of God?
I also distinctly remember having to be taught about God because I definitely didn't know about him. Basically, the actions of Christians to go out into the world and evangelize and the edict in the Bible commanding they do make no sense in light of that passage. It also didn't jive with my own experience. This definitely was one of my first times seriously questioning if at least this part of the Bible was wrong.
A Christian furry?
When I was a kid in Catholic school I asked something similar. This was the excuse I got - Paul was just saying that by looking at creation, everyone knows there is a good creator, but some have to much pride to accept it and pay honor to it, but the job of the Church was to teach people the nature of the one "true" god, and let them know what it asks of us. I thought that was pretty weak, but at 10 or 11 years old it was enough to make me cool my jets for a while.
SyeTen Bruggengate (an apologist that even Dilahunty is too annoyed with to debate again) says that romans 1:20 tells us that everyone has sufficient knowledge of god to justify their damnation, but not necessarily to justify their salvation. So evangelism is giving those people a chance to be saved.
This is an interesting statement because a good and just deity has a binary outcome for his created sapients, and has made it plain so he can pull the lever for the trap door, but it’s your problem if you can take the stairs.
I think the absurdity makes it kind of funny.
@ Former Christian now, but yes. I'm not sure why this is surprising. Furries definitely have a higher nonbeliever (or at least non-Christian) population, but there's still plenty of Christians.
@@pdoylemi Yeah, that wouldn't have flown with me either. The version I got was that the passage meant that everyone had the truth written on their hearts so when they heard it they would recognize it as the truth.
Which, to me, seemed needlessly complicated and still didn't actually prove anything. It especially wasn't helpful to someone who had faith but was losing it bit by bit every day.
I'll give an example of why Romans 1:20 is stupid
I write "I beat up jackie Chan with one arm"
And "you believe I beat up jackie Chan with one arm, if you say otherwise you are lying to yourself and everyone around you"
Now, do you believe I beat up jackie Chan with one arm?
@Sketch_ Tepig
If you really want to understand what that scripture means in its proper context, please watch this.....
ua-cam.com/video/GuMC_Dj0PvQ/v-deo.html
Also you seem to me like you might be an atheist, are you one? If so why did you become or decide to call yourself an atheist? What kind of atheist are you exactly? What really sells you on that?
Do you believe your life, body, family and the ground you walk on are all a gift or something else? If you believe they are all something else then what do you think they all are then?
If you found out tomorrow that the God of the Bible is in FACT REAL how do you think you would change your life or what do you think you should do differently in this situation?
"...since the creation of the world God’s *invisible* qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen..."
Invisible
[in-viz-uh-buhl]
adjective
1. not visible; not perceptible by the eye:
invisible fluid.
2. withdrawn from or out of sight; hidden:
an invisible seam.
3. not perceptible or discernible by the mind:
invisible differences.
I never have understood this 'you don't believe because you just want to sin' stuff. Is remaining a believer and simply repenting really that difficult?
Even ignoring the complete non-sequitur, I still wouldn't claim to be an athiest in that case, as pretending to be devout would put my behavior under less moral scrutiny. Hell, if I could get myself ordained as a priest, I could use tithe funding to help move myself around and avoid law enforcement arresting me for almost anything, judging by what Catholic priests have been protected for.
The argument makes less than no sense on multiple levels.
@Gen Meow
"'you don't believe because you just want to sin' stuff"
(This is not everyone, many people are just fooled by "popular main stream educational secular origin ideas" being absolute fact. I think subconsciously this is in some people, especially if they were taught that Christianity is extremely strict when it is not necessarily so..... Are you yourself an atheist or more of an agnostic?)
@@evolutionisbull5h1t -- you miss the point of his comment entirely. And the people who say it are not secular educators, but religious nutjobs. Your reasoning for your apologetics is more screwed up than the very religion you think you follow!
How would you determine that?
Determine what,@@dennisduncan7561?
Also, another reason not to use this is that because it's essentially calling the person you're quoting it at a liar, it's liable to get you punched.
@Roxor128
This is a great quote, but the problem is people these days can be really fooled into not noticing or ignoring Gods accomplishments by being constantly overstimulated by a society/ city filled with mans creations and mans lies that they teach their children.... to really understand this quote please watch this video....
ua-cam.com/video/GuMC_Dj0PvQ/v-deo.html
Are you an atheist or agnostic yourself?
Look, basically just don't use the Bible at all to convert non believers. Or if you do, cherrypick those hippie Jesus parts and lie about the rest. The Bible itself has converted more people to become non-believers than the other way around.
Another aspect of that verse is that it's so reflective of religious people.
They see god as selfevident, that they are startled when people openly proclaim they don't believe in god.
This is also the reason why many religious people flip the burden of proof, not because they are deciving but because their whole worldview is set in a way that god is as selfevident as gravity is.
And just like any sane person would look at a person funny if they'd proclaim there is no gravity so do religious people.
Romans 1;20 really shows that mindset.
+Alberich LP, writes _"And just like any sane person would look at a person funny if they'd proclaim there is no gravity so do religious people."_
If I pick up a pen and let it go it accelerates to the floor at 9.8 m/s/s. If god was as easily demonstrated to exist I would believe in it. Your analogy of their mindset is accurate, I'm just pointing out that their mindset is inane.
@@quantumeraser4833 oh hey its you again! Hey buddy, how ya been? When was the last time I saw you, viced rhino's channel? Good times, good times. Still falling for that autodeception I see, but its okay. It can be hard to think when you're trapped by sunk cost and surrounded by people who would reject you for thinking. My thoughts to you and yours, good day!
*scince still has no concrete evidence that gravity exists
In fact it's as much of a theory as evolution(which in science mean that we have a shit ton of evidence : enough taht we can 99.42% say that it probably exists) except it's actually questionable this time
@@Errenium yo that math was way over my head but seems interesting. Would I need to start looking at a degree in physics or is there somewhere to learn about it online?
@@Errenium i appreciate a prompt response
Tbh I don't have much as a background. Just some basic math from early college classes
Romans 1:20 is a cop-out. This verse gives xtians cover when you point out uncomfortable facts like jesus's message not reaching India and China for over a thousand years (or several billions of souls). It makes jesus's sacrifice completely unnecessary. It shows that god didn't try very hard.
Xtians also aren't comfortable with Genesis 6:6, "god regretted making humans". God blows it in the first chapter. It's a verse that points out that their god is an omniscient fuckup.
When I was Christian, God's regrets were (Along with the story of Job) my greatest difficulties in understanding him. How can an all-knowing being regret anything?
In fact, I tried reading more of the bible to try and understand. Unfortunately, the more you read of the bible the more problems you see and the less "Good" God is. He is not all knowing, nor is he all good, and he certainly isn't all powerful. He has many wondrous abilities within the story, but also many failings.
Plus, The Bible is inconsistent to the point of being laughable. Like if you published a fantasy novel with this many contradictions, it'd be a laughingstock.
So true MrServantRider. The simple fact that their god drowned millions of babies shows how evil their god is. Then you keep on reading and their god sanctions a couple dozen genocides or just mass murders. Apologists really start looking foolish trying to defend killing babies.
And he screws up constantly. One of the most interesting verses that I found recently that points to serious incompetence.
[Mark 8:27-30]
Jesus and his disciples went on to the villages around Caesarea Philippi. On the way he asked them, “Who do people say I am?”
28 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, one of the prophets.”
29 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
Peter answered, “You are the Messiah.”
30 Jesus warned them not to tell anyone about him.
Ok, so jesus came to earth to make sure everyone knew he was god's son, and they better start worshiping him. But these verses shows that he's a total fuckup. Why don't people know who he is? Wasn't that his primary purpose? Why did he tell Peter to keep quiet about is? Yeah, apologists have stuff to say about this, but a perfect god doesn't need dozens and dozens of excuses.
Nice to see others bringing up regret. It is logically impossible for an omniscient entity to experience regret. And there are others too, like jealousy... an emotion that almost always inspires negative actions.
In the end though, no matter what arguments a believer may try out, their REAL reason for belief is indoctrination, the need to feel special without earning it, and most importantly, because it makes them feel good... Mmmmm, god. LOL
@@GuitarDog_atx the simple fact that this "Perfect" god can feel emotions is the greatest flaw in his design
Christianity and the Gospel reached India in the mid-1st century and China in the mid 7th century.
Well, I want to talk about John 3:16 because it seems so stupid that we should be hammering Christians with it more than we do. "For God so loved the world that he *gave* his only begotten son". It sounds good, and gives good feels, but it is a lie. At the end of the story God's son is not dead. God did not *give* anything!
It's also a passage which makes clear that Jesus was not god, otherwise it would say "For God so loved the world that he became flesh and gave himself..."
@@Grim_Beard There are so many contradictions in the trinity concept that it will make you spin. And this is the same god that loved the world so much that he drowned every breathing creature except a handful of men and animals. Can't you feel God's LUV!
"For God so loved the world that he had a really bad weekend this one time..."
For God so hated his own creations that he made himself have a bad weekend, so that whoever DID NOT believe in him, would be TORTURED FOR ETERNITY!
@@quantumeraser4833 Why did he kill everything? Because his creations did exactly what he knew they would do. It's just nonsense.
You guys made your god too powerful, so he is without excuse for evil. He can do anything. He knows everything that is, was, and will be. He loves everyone. He tortures people infinitely for finite crimes. All of those things can't be true at the same time.
Never heard it articulated so eloquently! Thank you. I did bookmark this video and archive it for future reference.
Romans 1 20 is a perfect example that to be religious you have to deny reality
Even if god existed , being honestly mistaken would still be a thing.
The bible asserting that every single person that does not believe is dishonest and already knows of god's existence is a blatant contradiction with the millions of people who honestly dont believe in a god or gods
Therefore biblical literalists have to deny the reality of honest non-believers and assert that every single non believer is lying because that is what the bible says, even if it makes no sense
Wow, this video really got to some people! The comment section is/was on fire!
A couple weeks back, there was a street preacher on a corner who I decided I'd interact with. When he found out I was an atheist, he responded: "well, there are no atheists." He started quoting Romans 1:20, and I know it so well that I joined him and even finished it before he could.
Paul's right as usual. Quoting this verse is utterly useless. If an atheist isn't going to believe parts about... you know... GOD EXISTING, then they won't care one bit about why it says that some people don't believe.
As usual,@@quantumeraser4833 you missed the point entirely. As an atheist, I don't care what the Bible says about theology. I don't think it's true. I hope you understand that much, at least. If I don't think it's true about theology, I don't care if/why it says I really DO think it's theology is true.
*"We're not trying to convince atheists of anything (that would be The Acme of Foolishness), we're EXPOSING YOU as the Science Denying Crayon Munchers that you are."*
That's just it. To us, you're not exposing anything. Most people know what they believe and why, so anyone saying otherwise is totally futile and just insulting.
To me, someone quoting Romans 1:20 has as much validity as someone quoting Happy Potter to me, or, say, Surah 7:102 to you. Get it?
@@quantumeraser4833
Someone who obsesses that long over a typo proves to everyone that they have no intelligent argument.
@@quantumeraser4833False Equivalence Fallacy: The Bible is Historical Documentation whereas 'Happy Potter' is FICTION.
But they're both fiction! :D
Also prove to me that the bible is not fiction without quoting the bible.
@@quantumeraser4833 Also I prayed to a rake in my garage today to help me find a can of mandarin oranges. I immediately found a can of mandarin oranges. THE RAKE IN MY GARAGE IS NOW THE NEW ONE TRUE GOD
I think Christian apologists trying to use the bible is immediately a self- defeating argument. Their "opponents" have already determined the bible to a scientifically and historically inaccurate source of information.
In fact, it is much more beneficial for atheists to cite the bible in their reasoning than it is for apologists.
much more satisfying to prove a christian wrong citing the very scripture they base their life upon...
@@timq6224 and @Cluckery Duckery
Why even cite something that you do not even understand or are using in the wrong context though? Because that is all I have ever seen an atheist do. Do it to me and I will show you......
If you really want to understand the scripture he is talking about then please watch this one minute clip ua-cam.com/video/GuMC_Dj0PvQ/v-deo.html
You all seem to me like you might be atheists, are any of you one? If so why did you become or decide to call yourself an atheist? What kind of atheist are you exactly? What really sells you on that?
Do you believe your life, body, family and the ground you walk on are all a gift or something else? If you believe they are all something else then what do you think they all are then?
@@evolutionisbull5h1t -- don't understand? wrong context? I was raised in the church -- seven different ones to be exact -- and I know your scripture inside and out. I got awards for memorization. I was asked to lead bible studies. I learned basic Hebrew and Greek. It is because I learned so much that I can speak on this subject. Church teachings change constantly, but you don't notice because you are just another brainwashed lobster in the pot.
@@timq6224
Somebody can be extremely book smart, they can memorize many complex equations and phrases and recall them perfectly on tests, and even use them well, you can learn to use sine, cosine and tangent on your calculator very well and not know what the hell they even are, but that same person may not know what the equations really mean or how they work or what this or that phrase really says and what it really means and its ramifications.
Your "braggery" and how you use it against the Lord is of no worth to one such as I....
ask me any "ONE" question you would like...….
@@evolutionisbull5h1t -- Why do you want to spend eternity in heaven with the god that is depicted in the bible?
This was great Paulogia! Thanks for creating & sharing it!
Love the background sounds used during the quotation reading. Puts the whole thing in context of ancient, pre-Enlightenment men. Nice touch!
Still having a hard time figuring out how invisible qualities can be clearly seen.
I said it before, allow me to state it again because it's the perfect answer to this "argument": Everyone is born a Trekkie. Everyone knows deep down in their hearts that the Vulcan ideals of logic and reason are true, they just suppress and deny it because they want to remain in their illogical ways.
And when the believer then complains that you're comparing the bible to a made up concept that someone invented, just nod and say "You're finally catching on"...
0x777
I am actually a pretty big star trek fan.....
If you really want to understand that quote, please watch this video....
ua-cam.com/video/GuMC_Dj0PvQ/v-deo.html
Are you an atheist or agnostic yourself?
@EVOLUTION IS BULL5H1TdotCOM Irreducible complexity, which is the basis of the argument of the video you keep spamming along with the idea that "every creation needs a creator" is entirely useless. You first have to prove that there is any necessity for a creator of things like a cell without just saying "well it seems complex, and I know nature can't form complex things on its own", since that's just an argument from ignorance. You see, you have this problem a lot in your replies to people. You say a lot, and I mean A LOT without saying anything meaningful. You break down their statements into sections, which isn't inherently bad, but your responses to those individual statements are always saying much more than they necessarily need to, which just overwhelms the people you respond to so they don't want to respond in turn. And in many of your replies, you include wikipedia links as though they mean anything at all, while also saying garbage like "have you ever read a book front to back" (paraphrased since I don't remember exactly).
At the end of the day, my friend, you are a pseudo intellectual who thinks that complexity necessitates a creator - something you have yet to prove in a single one of your ridiculously long, gish-gallop-esque respones to people who clearly don't know what they're talking about in the first place. You're in the same realm as 2consider and Quantum Eraser, two notorious atheist-browsing evangalist trolls at this point
Love the new episodes. Good job keep them coming
Haven't watched any of your videos for a while but your spot on reasoning here reminded me why I love your channel.
Thanks, Mick! Lots to catch up on some day...
That verse is so condescending, it makes me so angry! Do not tell me what I think. Great video, thank you Paul.
...that is simply a barefaced lie.
I guess it is nice they avoid the more obfuscating stuff.
Thing is, Paul was not writing about us - he was writing about first-century Greeks.
Imagine trying to convince an Athenian, dyed-in-the-wool philosopher of the truth of Christianity. He'd smilingly grind you into metaphorical mincemeat.
Salkafar
Or 1st Century Jews who went astray.
basically a passage to give confidence to the ignorant masses who couldn't reason their way out of a wet paper bag.
Just dropped in from Viced Rhino’s vid. Love it. Subed.
As a Christian, I just wish more Christians realized this.
Never use Genesis 1:1 as evidence to prove creationism
I don't believe the supernatural claims in your holy book, so don't ask as if I should
KainaX122
It’s a circular argument.
Des Gardius 2012 exactly
I don't believe atheism is true. I have more sense than that.
@@atheismkills3748 🤔Are you implying atheism is to be without sense?
@@atheismkills3748 Like EVERY human I was born an atheïst. Knowledge of the myths in the bible was unknown to me for 12 years.
And that's what they are. Myths en story's to explain something people that lived more than 2000 years ago made up.
Story's used from other religions en cults. Adapted to monotheïsm. Changed and mistranslated so many times that they don't even look like the original tales anymore. Like the lelephone game.
I have nothing to proof. You make the claim, You have the burdon of proof.
Christians nowadays use this on atheists, but reading the very next verse will bring it into its full context: "and they exchange the glory of the immortal God for images resembling a mortal human being or birds or four-footed animals or reptiles." ~ Romans 1:23.
In context, Paul is addressing pagan theists, NOT atheists.
@Paulogia thanks for another great video.
and the crowd goes wild. Another awesome video.
4 things I wish Christians will stop telling me to convert me.
1. Anything in the Bible, even prophecies.
I don't care what your holy book says, to me it stands in the same regard as Mother Goose (with horrid morals mixed in)
2. How many years you were an athiest.
People change their beliefs for all kinds of reasons, it doesn't mean the new beliefs are true.
3. Your personal experience.
It goes without saying why ancecdotal evidence is considered worthless in the scientific Field, no matter how outrageous it is,.
4. To go see Mr. Apologist about this.
I've learned to not trust the words of men who falsely build up their credentials to get that paycheck at the end of each lecture circuit. Especially if more often than not, I've found them to be lying through their teeth.(for the millionth time, yes I've seen Ray comfort, Kent Hovind, and Ravi Zacharias, at best they are idiots at worst they are con men.)
Just some Guy
- What you just said is of coruse idiotic.
*4 things I wish Christians will stop telling me to convert me.
*
You mean lie flying Pshagetti Monster or 02.% of all inamtes are Ateists? Or how about Talking SNake? Brinze Age Goat Herders? Oh wait, tat's Atheists. Right befor they quote Matt Dilahuny or Aron Ra.
*1. Anything in the Bible, even prophecies.
I don't care what your holy book says, to me it stands in the same regard as Mother Goose (with horrid morals mixed in)
*
Yeah comparing the Bible to Mother Goose or Fairy Tales in general is why I don't respect todays Atheists. This is not only Childish, but it snot even your opinion. WHy should I respect you as a Freethinker who comes up with his own Ideas wen all you do is quote what others say?
Also, how can a Christian convince you the Bible is True and ot quote the Bible?
All you're really saying is, your a Bigot who won't listen.
*2. How many years you were an athiest.
People change their beliefs for all kinds of reasons, it doesn't mean the new beliefs are true.
*
Athists pu the I use to be a Christian card all the TIme, so isn't this Hypocritical?
*3. Your personal experience.
It goes without saying why ancecdotal evidence is considered worthless in the scientific Field, no matter how outrageous it is,.
*
In other words, you won't accept anything. If thy can't use the Bile or their wn expeirnces, then you're just closed minded.
Especially sicne Atheists ikeyou give testamonials all the Time.
*4. To go see Mr. Apologist about this.
I've learned to not trust the words of men who falsely build up their credentials to get that paycheck at the end of each lecture circuit.*
Really? Theyn why are yu listenig to this guys VIdeos? And what do you THink of Aron Ra? Or Matt Dilahunty? Or Richard Carrier?
If you respect htem, then that's not an issue.
*Especially if more often than not, I've found them to be lying through their teeth.*
Aron Ra said the Bible defies Faith as beleif withtu evidnece and the posted a lit of veses hat don't realy say that before also claming all Creatoists are liars, which he told me personally to get me to change h topic.
And doens't Matt Dilahuny claim he's a Philosopher? What arehis Credentials exactly?
*(for the millionth time, yes I've seen Ray comfort, Kent Hovind, and Ravi Zacharias, at best they are idiots at worst they are con men.)*
So you have't seen real Theologians.
I mean, seriously, Geisel, Williams, Ward, they do' get mentioned? You appeal to Hovind?
Come on, you ren't paying ea attention.
The fact that you find these things disturbing enough to complain about it tells me that these are things that we need to continue to use.
Why don't you want people telling you about prophecies? Most can be verified as being true (as they've already come to pass) and thus are a testament of the truth of Scripture. Other parts of the Bible have been historically verified, and if you are going so far off the track that you disregard Biblical historical facts, you are obviously showing a bias and are delusional. It is not in the slightest way comparable to fairy tales. And it is just stupid to plug your ears and scream at the prospects of eternal condemnation laid out in religious texts such as the Bible by a simple cost-benefit analysis.
Sam F cost benefit analysis? Like Pascals wager analysis?
@@samf8192 Homer was writing some time between the 8th and 12th centuries BC. For comparison, the writing of the Deuteronomistic Histories is generally dated at or around 733 BC. We know for a fact that Troy existed, and that at least one incarnation of Troy was destroyed by war. The Iliad's descriptions of how the war was waged match what we know of Achaean tactics and equipment of the time. In other words: the Iliad has been, broadly speaking, historically verified.
Most of us do not accept the Iliad's claims of miraculous events. I don't feel it is either biased or delusional to do so; do you?
Thank you. I've been saying this about Romans 1 for years. If you claim you can read my thoughts, and then you read them incorrectly, I will know with 100% certainty that your claim is wrong. And that's exactly what Romans 1 does - puts me in the position to know, for certain, that the Bible is wrong, and therefor cannot be the 'perfect and inerrant word of God'.
I love how this video is directed at people interested in evangelism rather than skepticism. More like this could be very powerful
You're awesome Paul!
not that Paul though...
Religion is poison. The older I get, the less patience I have with people who spout religious nonsense of all kinds.
More if this please!!!
If?
@@insylem If this, then more. Logic gates.
@@insylemSay it in Yoda's voice…
More if that too, please!!! :-)
More would please this one, too.
I love the background noise you put during the reading of scripture with what seems like a medieval village from some video game, really adds the touch of reminding you what era these passages were written in. I'm really curious now, where is that sound from?
It's actually from someone else's Bible dramatic reading.
I've heard Romans 3:23 ("For all have sinned and come short of the glory of god.") and Romans 6:26 ("For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of god is eternal life.") used much more often. I'd never heard Romans 1:20 used to try and convert ppl. Usually that's what I hear as a "so there" from Christians after their attempt at conversion fails. Like it's a parting threat or a "I'll win in the end" kind of thing.
BTW, Romans 1:20 is one of the verses that lead to ppl like Jordan Peterson to claim that everyone really believes in god deep down, they just pretend they don't.
"god’s invisible qualities....have been clearly seen"
Cant argue with logic like that....
For the life of me I cannot understand how people believe that these ancient writings by ancient people with ancient beliefs is proof of god.
This video is a subtle knife, you won't even feel it go in, but it cuts deep.
I love this new background so so much
“And anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell”
Mathew 5:22
Yet there are plenty of parts of the Bible where Jesus and God call people fools and even using the exact phase “You fool(s)”
Anyone else find it pathetic that we have to make a video explaining to theist how thinking and thoughts work ?
I'd consider the arrogance of your statement to be rather pathetic. Generally atheists tend to be just as misinformed about the topic.
Says the person who probably follows one of the most arrogant self righteous religions on the planet.
I assume you follow a variant of Christianity. Here are some widely accepted tenants of your religion . The word of God is perfect. God wants to be known and makes himself self evident to all.
Quite a number of believers , among your demographic believe exactly that. Which leads them into a paradox of logic where they have to believe atheist are lying when they say they disbelieve the God claim.
It also makes them extremely belligerent , disbelieving and a near state of denial when the logic paradox is pointed out. Which is probably why despite repeated explanation of what atheism is atheist still get theist misunderstanding the position.
You ever hear "People tend to think , other think just like them". Don't assume that just because your in a delusional state , that atheists are in one too.
No one has provided me with enough evidence for me to believe Unicorns exists. I don't believe they do , which is a logical and sound position to have. The only reason you believe me when I say that about Unicorns and Not when I apply it to a God. Is because you don't have a divine edict telling you what to think about unicorns.
Go break some chains and come back when you are less of a mental slave. Maybe then we can have more meaningful discourse.
@@BlacksmithTWD 😐
Should we review by that statement seems to have made you defensive?
It's really quite normal hell, long before the Bible and Jesus and all that crap Buddhist philosophy was talking about how people have no idea what they think
@@triplebackspace3623
Thanks for confirming my position.
Instead of attacking my position you attempt to attack me as a person (ad hominem fallacy) , and the only things you can bring up are by your admittance things you assume about me (indicated by the word probably) but don't even have a single indication for other than from a faulty generalization fallacy.
Then you start talking about other people, who most likely have more in common with you than with me suggesting I should defend what you seem to be accusing them of, as if I could speak for them. I can only speak for myself.
And you finish with unicorns, even going as far as claiming to know what I believe about unicorns, without having even asked me or read any statement of mine about unicorns.
The number of assumptions you make about me and seem to present as if they were facts in your 'arguments' makes me seriously doubt your capabilities in logical reasoning.
So we are discussing the illogical mindset possessed by a demographic you belong to. Please explain to me how we can be critical of a delusional state , based on an illogical belief without a dressing the mind which accepts the illogical foundations upon which the delusion is based on.
Further the religion I referenced and you did not deny belonging to exploits that state of delusional belief , and propagates it through numerous societies , and across generations. This I also feel justified with it's inclusion into the criticism.
Now you are right , that it requires a lot of assumptions but usually those assumptions are correct. Are you just going to try to disregard the argument without getting specific about your beliefs ? If you are then you could have edited your objection to my post to one sentence statement.
If not , and you want to defend your position more robustly please enlighten me. What did I get wrong ? Are you not a Christian and do you really believe Unicorns are real ? Do you get upset people don't agree with your Unicorn beliefs ? You have the floor.
Good video thanks for sharing it
I love your background!
Christianity isn’t even based on Jesus, Christianity is based on Paul’s teachings about how to worship Jesus .
I have oft said the modern christian should be called a Paulian -- they certainly don't bother with the teachings of Jesus!
Tim Q well then you are really smart, because that’s almost entirely what Christians believe .
Tim Q funny how great minds think alike . I’ve never heard other people say that about Paul, it’s just common sense from reading the Bible and going through church. And we come up with the same conclusion . Oh that’s makes me tingle a little 😬
Literally just had someone use this verse today on me. Coincidence? Nope. Its gotta be proof that some invisible sky wizard is trying to tell me that he's definitely mocking me.
just tell him he is a complete putz and you still aren't going to worship a god that kills children to make a point.
@Bryant Fox and @Tim Q
If you really want to understand that verse, please watch this one minute youtube video...……. ua-cam.com/video/GuMC_Dj0PvQ/v-deo.html
If you have any questions, please ask me...………. maybe God is interacting with you, possibly to understand this scripture...…..
Wonderfully video Paul! I would love to see more of these, in addition to Ham and AIG of course 😏
great video!
Never bring mythology to a logic fight.
What about Greek Mythology . Ever Heard of Plato.
@@truethinker221 Plato existed in real life. John 5:7 was added in during a bible translation to avoid the appearance of polytheism. The translation was from hebrew back to greek the original language of the bible.
That wasn't what i meant . The Greek Philosophers derived logic from Myth . Proving the charters were real was not the intention.
I have never heard anyone claim the NT had any Hebrew writing. Plus i have no idea what you are intending to show. All kinds of things were added whether there were original sources and what they may have said is an interesting field. Source Criticism . Have you studied it much ? That how you knew about John 5;7 ? Just because common Myths were added (used)doesn't change the meaning. Myth was used as every day people understood it. So . If Monotheism gradually took hold there would still be remnants of older traditions mixed in. Mythology is a cartage for holding truth. Not to prove the physical existence of the charters.
True, Well said
You sound like a Jesuit teacher at my first High School. I find the apposing views of biblical understanding between the Catholics and Evangelicals to be disheartening. I often rage online after reading about any madness carried out in the name of God in any of his forms. Nowadays I'm a believer in the god of Spinoza because it somehow removes me from the madness. I still manage to get sucked in now and then.
As for Hebrew writing in the NT, many scholors believe Josephus contributed with many comments such as Mark 12:17. Josephus was the Caesar's scribe so it makes since. Otherwise why would any FAITHFUL Christian bother kowtowing to their oppressor if not told to by dogma or the Bible? And again, good comment.
My thought whenever people quote Bible passages like that is simple.
They would say that wouldn't they.
I think there are many believers who are so indoctrinated they cannot understand the concept of someone not believing.
That's too many steps. A Christian who wants to sin can just go sin, and then get forgiven the next day. Wash, rinse, and repeat.
And we all know at least one who thinks this is how it works. It's no wonder the majority of incarcerated people are Christian. (Ahem, that's hearsay so I could be mistaken.)
I’ve heard that a lot of popular psychology around the notion of the subconscious is bunk anyway. Most of the time, “unconscious” is used to refer to mental processes which happen without us noticing, like the inability to forget to blink. It’s not some shadowy false bottom in our brain underneath which we harbor secret beliefs that even we aren’t aware of. So even the claim that we could possibly unconsciously believe in God is very dubious.
Feel free to correct me on this if I’m wrong.
Good question... I'm going to ask Shannon about this.
Presuppositional apologetics are absolutely the least convincing arguments I've heard. Probably because they're not even arguments. They're more like grade school playground taunts.
It shows the atheist worldview has no foundation and is absurd, its like a nuclear bomb, they are helpless and wither to absurdity
Oh, look! Another theist who doesn't understand what atheism is!
Atheism is the mental state of not being convinced that an actual deity really exists. It has no bearing on any other topic. There is no such thing as an "atheist worldview". It is entriely possible for an atheist to believe everything a theist does except for the claims of a god's existence. Extremely rare, but still possible.
@@GODHATESADOPTION
Stop lying to make yourself look smart.
@@quantumeraser4833 Evidence shows nature as the origin of all life. No evidence for gods. Thus, it is not a presupposition.
@@quantumeraser4833 Actually, your "true dichotomy" is quite a false dichotomy. A true dichotomy is "A or not A". What you are proposing is "A or B".
The true dichotomies here are:
1) Nature or not nature. I can see, feel, taste, etc. nature. I have every evidence that nature is real. Therefore, I believe that nature is real. I could be wrong and that I am a "brain in a vat" and all of this is just my imagination. However, if I slam my imaginary, brain in a vat, hand in a door, it hurts just as much as if I had a physical hand that I slammed in a door. Therefore, I treat what I experience as real because I cannot detect any difference between the two possibilities and I don't want my hand slammed in a door.
2) God or not god. I have no reliable evidence that any god or gods exist. Therefore, I withhold belief in any god or gods. Neither do I have any evidence that a god or gods do not exist. Therefore, I withhold belief that no god or gods exist. Could a god exist? Maybe. However, until I have what I consider to be evidence of a god, I will continue to withhold belief in any god. Could the existence of a god be impossible? Maybe. However, until I have what I consider to be evidence of the impossibility of a god, I will continue to withhold belief that there are no gods.
When you state that the ONLY possibilities are nature and god, you are ruling out other possibilities that are not impossible. For instance, a third possibility is that the universe was created by a trans-dimensional space alien as part of a grade school science fair exhibit. Of course, once you get to that point, I'm not sure how you would tell the difference between a trans-dimensional alien and a god. They would look the same to us, assuming that we could see them.
Also, spontaneous generation was, most probably, proposed by Aristotle and was the accepted explanation for the formation of life for thousands of years. Eventually, Louis Pasteur conducted a series of experiments that falsified that theory. As a result of Pasteur's work, we now know that spontaneous generation is NOT how life forms. We are still looking for a replacement theory that we can test and that we can provide evidence for or against. Simply saying "god did it", does not advance that search.
Which god is the god who is revealed through his wrath? Since no unsubstantiated claim like this can be taken as evidence for any specific god, maybe Odin is a valid choice?
That's a very stupid argument. Typical atheist twaddle.
@Marilyn Newman Yes, I like that one. PS. Anyone who thinks that using the handle ‘Atheism Kills’ is going to have a positive influence must be extremely childish. The use of that sort of ad hominem only demonstrates the utter weakness of their argument, so I blocked the clown.
@@clemstevenson Your a coward who cannot defend your mindless beliefs.
Should I expect a Christmas card from you this year?
@@atheismkills3748
1 Corinthians 8:6-7
Compare that to romans 1:20 and then let us know your reasoning... Don't worry I'll wait...
@@atheismkills3748 *You're
Good arguments and 'essay' (for lack of a better word), Paul! 😊👍
Thanks, IHT
I actually had my mother in law claim that the "wars and rumours of wars" line was coming true.
My response was that wars and rumours of wars has been the status quo for thousands of years... As long as there has been stuff to steal...if she gets an update from God about "Peace and rumours of Peace..." Followed by global peace breaking out... then I'm all ears.
Romans 1:20 is the very reason I left Christianity! haha, it was so obviously false that I couldn't get passed it. I struggled with all of Romans 1 for years until i was just like, "hey, you know.....this is false"
Paul.. I've watched every video you've ever uploaded to youtube, some more than once.
And as a believer who does not suffer under the delusion that God created this universe and included a multitude of evidence designed strictly for the purpose of confusing or deceiving people, I LOVE your logical approach to the questions the universe poses.
I hungrily consumed every episode of "Science of Genesis: Paradise Lost" and each one was brilliant.
But this video is my favorite one that you've ever made. I hold great contempt for evangelists and apologists for sullying the name and image of my God. They read a message of love and acceptance, and then turn around and spew hatred and exclusion. And they do this on top of their attempts to undermine science, which is the very best way we have of truly exploring His creation.
The word of God is foolishness to the non-believer. And every attempt made by the Hamms and the Hovinds of the world to use the scripture to try to convince non believers is a step in the wrong direction.
This video was a beautiful bridge between two competing ideologies. And it's those bridges that are necessary to close the gaps and end the hatred and vitriol. Toby Mac said it best when he said something to the effect of, "we need to open our doors and windows and let our love ooze out into the neighborhoods and businesses and schools so that people see it and feel it and taste it and think to themselves, man, whatever they got over there, I want some of that! I gotta get me some of that!" If hamm and Hovind and comfort spent 1/100th of the time they spend spreading lies and judgement on spreading the love of God instead, the world would be a much better place. But instead they spend all their time and energy supporting the zionism and hatred of people who already believe while pushing everyone else away.
Keep doing what you're doing, brother. Keep exposing these frauds so the next generations will hopefully stop associating with that world view and start living living a little more like the God they claim to love.
Comment of the day... I'm glad my intended message was received.
@@Paulogia holy crap I got a reply from THE Paul! :)
Indeed, received as intended. I've been trying for years to get this message across, but this was an incredibly eloquent and respectful and thoughtful way of saying it. I'll be linking to this video for years to come.
@@williamdowling7718 Which god do you believe in?
william dowling u can t change the globalist. It s hate that burls those communists
@@chris532008 I'm sorry, I have no idea what connection you've drawn between evangelicals and globalists/communists. ..
What are you talking about??
I have a question, in what context does a lack of belief warrant punishment? Can you think of any situation where you feel justified punishing someone for having doubt about something?
Question. Doesn’t Romans 1:19 wreck free will since it is god’s revealing it to them is the cause of their belief, an outside influence.
Am I missing something here?
Trying to get people to believe in god is just as ridiculous as trying to get adults to believe in Santa Claus.
if there's one thing that god certainly does not do, it's make just about anything clear
How can you say a thing like that????The bible is the inspired word of god!!!! It gives us such clear direction as:
Proverbs 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
And one sentence later:
Proverbs 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.
@@cnault3244 sorry i have to ask but ya just don't know these days. i take it you're an atheist laying on the sarcasm nice n thick?
@@davidcunningham9282 Kind of ( I've been saying for a few years that the internet needs a sarcasm font). I like using their own book against them when I can ( which is often).
@@cnault3244 the thing is what sounds like a complete joke to you and me is in fact a serious comment from the religious so ya just never know
If wish I was a believer so I could enjoy your video even more :)
"God's invisible qualities" and "have been clearly seen" in the same sentence create a confusing logical contradiction that makes no sense, which makes the entire passage come across as meaningless word salad. "If you haven't seen the Invisible Pink Unicorn in all her glory, you clearly haven't been looking with your heart. For her pinkness is clear to everyone, but some choose to focus on her invisibility instead." - Made up, but based loosely on the IPU satire.
DarkMatter2525:
"Invisible qualities have been clearly seen? How could you not see how full of shit that is!?"😂🤣
Believer: We can’t explain it, therefore God did it.
Realist: I see. You’re taking your ignorance, labeling it God and worshiping it. That makes sense.
@@quantumeraser4833 Scale matters. Particularly in physics.
Basically
Richard Feynman, who used to party with us students at Caltech, would say that just because quantum physics wasn’t intuitively easy to understand, didn’t mean it wasn’t a valid model of reality.
Nicht von dieser Welt. That’s not correct. Quantum theory predicted the Hogg’s particle, Hawking radiation, gravity waves, blue and white LEDs and a host of other phenomena that are outside my areas of knowledge. The fact that we can predict so much from what we already theorize is why it’s called quantum theory and not quantum hypothesis.
Paulogia, ha ha. That was good. Love and Peace
luv that background. :)
I am a believer.
This video is well done. I disagree with the premise that the verse is mistaken, but I think that you laid out *exactly* how the passage sounds to an unbeliever. I greatly appreciate your perspective on this matter.
So, why do I disagree? For one thing, I do believe that people have had, at some level, a gut instinct about G-d as well as evidences such as the complexity of the world around them (including their own bodies). Nevertheless, the believer needs to understand how subtle something like that is. It might be perfectly rational on most levels for a person to reject faith. So, in a way, I agree with you on many parts of your point.
I just hope that my fellow believers can get past the defensiveness that the hostile academic culture and their own lack of training at church and at home in such areas as Biblical literacy and critical thinking and come to appreciate what you just offered them here.
the verse was directed to christians that had fallen away from the church. the implication is that a natural theology is seen not specifically the god of christianity. complexity is relative and complexity doesn't mean design or creator so I hope that isn't a justification you use. so far I have been asking those that deny why they disagree with biblical scholars to expected results.
@@nym1001 , I have to disagree about the primary meaning of the verse because of its context.
Also, have you ever written code for a computer?
@@craigyerger203 that's the context... so why do you disagree with it?
no but I do know it isn't very analogous with life.
@@nym1001 The passage is talking about all mankind.
And anyone who has ever coded knows that code does not arise by natural selection and chance. The analogy is about the fact that dna stores information sequences and the cell has the necessary organelles to decode said information.
@@craigyerger203 it was sent to the church of rome in reference to those that fell away from their church... how is that incorrect? the next part was about a perception of natural theology that is seen but not the god of the bible or else there would be no reason to spread the word... so how is this incorrect?
DNA isn't a code... that is an analogy in reality it is just chemistry. and none of that leads to design as it takes more than complexity to infer design.
Good video.
loved the Lake Louise shot. I lived there for a while in the early to mid 1990's.
just around the corner here...
Roman's 1 is just a 2000+ year old hissy fit
I'm tired of being told I'm "bad" because I'm not delusional.
Hey there I was just wondering who is your target audience, and what the goal of your content is.
Thanks!
I wasn't irritated by verses like this until I started to lose my faith. It was after years of struggling that I realized the problem. If I came out of my time wrestling with God and didn't believe then everyone would say, "well you were never a real Christian."
That pisswd me off. I spent years trying to figure out who God is, what He wants from me, and whether He even exists. Never heard an answer the whole time, but this is somehow my fault. I'm just an evil sinner and that's the problem.
Ther are many,many people who say they believe when in reality they don't. Peer pressure and fear of being judged as a bad person for no longer believing or never believing. A large amount of guilt can also be experienced by those who no longer believe. I have experienced all these by no longer believing as a person raised in a Christian household.