Steve didn’t just play drums, he composed intricate rhythms with combinations of electronic and acoustic instruments which included African and Eastern drums too.
@@symbiat0 Oh yeah, absolutely. My comment was more about when Burk is talking about Japan's combination/duality between synth-based music and Mick's organic bass sound. Steve Jansen is both a talented rhythm creator in the studio and a very 'organic' drummer onstage.
Not to mention, his stage presence and style was over the top amazing. I think he was a star. And I agree that the best part of Japan was the rhythm section.
I would go so far as to say Mick Karn was one of the greatest bass players of all time. He was a one-off.. Nobody played a fretless bass like Karn, and there has been nothing like him ever since his sad death. A true great and more people should recognise this..
Mick had his own unique style which to this day has never been emulated ( copied ) by anyone else ! A true mark of respect to the great man . He inspired me to learn fretless bass and his lines ! His bassline, to Dalis Car, with Pete Murphy is amazing 👌
@@Fontsman-14Disagree: Your missing the point... You are not factoring in the importance of "uniqueness". Its not about how good technically you are, its "uniqueness"
@@Fontsman-14You are still missing the point. Its about his "uniqueness", not his physical / technical abilities, as he doesn't have the skill of Jones, or Pastorius.., that's what makes him different from the rest..
Non-musicians may not be aware, but a talented bassist playing a fretless bass, despite the sliding effect of some patterns that seem to give a rough character to the riff, has an incredibly precise fingering. On a fretless bass, an F sharp and a G flat are not the same, with the former being just a tiny bit lower than the latter. And Mick Karn was an exceptional bassist. My favorite song with Mick Karn on the bass? The Art of Parties. Because of the way everything blends smoothly. And Jesus, Sylvian's Voice! It's not the piece where Karn shows off his greatest virtuosity, but it's just incredible how all the tracks come together to create something totally amazing and very danceable. I can't help but wonder WTF, what are these chords? And yet my feet dance on their own.
His style was slick. His note choice,melodies and riffs next lvel genius. He injected slick funk. I'm a jazz funker and consider him cutting edge jazz funk
Jazz funk is a good description... I've always been drawn to musicians and artists who tend to defy categories... Karn was sort of otherworldly. Outside of the genre he was a part of... He's got the free sensibilities of jazz and the rhythmic groove of funk, but he also had a lot of world music feel, non-western types of melodic progression and he dared to go into the full-on experimental realms, too. I suspect his time with woodwinds and other non-pop types of music informed his unexpected style in Japan. I've heard it said that he didn't play bass like a bass player. I can't think of anyone who he reminds me of or who reminds me of him... Some folks say Jaco, but aside from the fretless thing, there's not a whole lot of similarities I can hear. There were some folks who were evidently influenced by him of course (I think Karn maybe instigated that 80s trend of the upfront, funky bass player in otherwise electronic-driven pop bands like Duran Duran, Kajagoogoo, et al ), but nobody really had Mick Karn's particular approach to a bass groove. :)
Japan’s music is timeless. I was hugely into them as a kid in the 80s. Though he was kinda ignored a bit after Japan broke up, it was Mick Karn who came out with his solo album first. I bought the vinyl back in the day. Interesting thing: I (re)bought it on CD years later and like Bowie’s Heroes album, it contained one or two extra, previously unreleased tracks which are fantastic. Makes you wonder what else is sitting on tape in a box somewhere. I bought my first bass a week after Mick Karn died…
I have so many vinyl/CD duplicates, and yes, it's worth it for the extras.... and definitely - Japan is one of those bands I always go back to. Amazingly ahead of their time, even now.
Mick's bass playing was indeed astonishing, in both feel and creativity, and he was also a, accomplished multi- instrumentalist - sax, flute, clarinet, oboe, horns.... Every member of Japan was a virtuoso player in their own right, really. The drums are in fact played, some acoustic, some syndrums, with some sequenced Linn percussion on a couple of tracks. It was pretty much before the days of sampling (at least outside of major studios that had access to a Synclavier or Fairlight). Tin Drum's production was also revolutionary - the first to be recorded pretty much dry, with very little ambience; great work by Steve Nye.
All are/were great musicians, the album Tin Drum still sounds fantastic today, 40 years on. I believe Mick was self taught, couldn't read music and didn't just play bass, a huge talent and sadly missed...
Thank you for educating and putting the spotlight on great musicians, who were not a household name. I much like you, feel that some of these musicians should be recognized, remembered , listened to and talked about. You are spot on about Mick Karn. There are many musicians of this calibre who most people never even heard of.
Mick Karn is a huge influence on my playing. He’s the reason I got a fretless when I was 15. However, I’m 51 and throughout my entire life I’ve NEVER heard anyone mention Paul Webb of Talk Talk. His playing isn’t as busy as Mick’s , but in my opinion, just as unique. His playing on Talk Talk’s “It’s My Life” record is fantastic. I recall many conversations with other bassists over the past few decades, and was shocked that they never heard of him. Well, evidently Paul Webb is even more obscure, which is weird because Talk Talk actually had a lot more visibility and airplay in the U.S. in the 80’s than Japan. He deserves the same attention. I’ve scoured the internet and have found next to nothing on Paul Webb.
Excellent point. Paul Webb is definitely a bass player to focus on. I've talked a lot about Talk Talk, but never really zoomed in on him, and you're right - a huge part of Talk Talk's sound is him. I usually hate to have "favorites" but if I'm forced to pick favorites, Talk Talk is a contender. The later albums AND the early ones, and Mark Hollis's solo album. Amazing stuff.
Great video my friend Mick Karn is my favorite bassist I am a fretless j bass player these days and he was unique inspiring and incredible Thanks So Much for educating the world about Mick and creating this great well thought out introduction to his vibe. 🙏
Very nice to see Mick remembered. Just in case you didn't know (though you may), Mick and Peter made another Dali's Car album called 'Ingladaloness' just after his diagnosis. It was his last work and I don't think they finished it before he passed but they released it with 5 tracks. Check it out if you haven't. As mature gentlemen they worked quite well together this time around. :)
I saw Japan live in Liverpool, they were incredible, they were a unique band and all extremely talented. Mick Karn should be acknowledged as being up there with Jaco Pistorius if not better.
The Waking Hour has been one of my favorite albums since I heard it first as a teenager in the mid 80s. I also dig Japan a lot. Then again, I'm a bass player.
So happy you mentioned Dali’s Car. Some of the best music ever. Have you seen the Angie Bowie Mick Karn 1981. I got his early solos stuff. But didn’t know about the others. Thank man.
Mick wasn't just the bassist in Japan. He was responsible for sax (from the second album on), clarinet, oboe, bass recorder (on 'Ain't That Peculiar') and an Asian reed instrument called Dida or Suona on Tin Drum. His first instrument was actually the bassoon.
Karn was amazing. I have Tin Drum and always thought it was hilarious they were called Japan and they had a picture of Mao Zedong hanging on the wall. I was never too fond on Silvian’s voice. The instrumental stuff he did with Barbieri and Jansen is what I’m really into. Great video.
Great album but probably not the best one if you're looking for bass. On this album he tried to focus more on the composition rather than bass playing.
mick was an absolute genius. his solo work is mindblowing. japan quite possibly had the greatest amount of talent in one act ever seen. each member was unique and genial. maybe thats exactly why it imploded just as they were going massive
If you haven't already, I would recommend borrowing or maybe renting one for a while to see if you like the way it plays, and the whole new language and technique, etc... Fretless is pretty unique way of playing. I know a few bass players who tried it for a while and couldn't really find their own user interface with it, and went back to the frets. I also know some bass players who jumped in and felt like they'd found "home" and never went back to frets... :)
Came to London at age of 3, but obviously family links to Cyprus gave him exposure to other Middle Eastern influences. His autobiography is fascinating .. and available in Digital format too.
Mick Darn played on Gary Numan's album, "Dance". The legend goes that he was tuning up and warming up, and that bass ended up on the song, "Slow Car To China". He also played on Joan Armatrading's album Square The Circle, which was fairly AOR.
I think the term you're looking for in terms of the "electronic" sound that Japan had. Richard Barbieri is as much of a sound designer as a musician. So, I would state that there is definitely a heavy electronic sound design type sound, mixed with Karn's bass playing made for compelling listening. I would recommend listening to compositions by "JBK". Amazing stuff by Jansen, Barbieri, and Karn. I really enjoyed this video, love to hear other people's perspectives on this topic.
I've read a lot about how sometimes (not always) learning music theory and the "proper" way to create progressions and melodies can erase that "natural" musical inventiveness that some folks have. Sometimes learning theory can open up the musical world, and other times it can limit.
Steve Jansen (Batt) David Sylvian's brother was an amazing drummer. His timing was sick. So much so that there was no flamming when he played along with sequences and arpeggiators. Completely underrated! Don't forget Karn played fretted basses on the first two Japan albums. When he switched to fretless, he was just on another level. I didn't rate Jaco, as he seemed to be a one trick pony when you've heard most of the records he played on. But, Karn was so inventive.
Japan are the only band that I have ever know to just get better and better. Such a shame they broke up :(. Mick Karns solo records are also worth a listen.
Well said sir. Mick was a god. Over here in the UK when Japan were in their prime, a journalist from a music magazine described Mick as "a gnome playing at the bottom of Jaco's garden". The t@t obviously thought he was being clever by slagging Mick off. What a t@sser. Anyway, having read many of the comments, I'm glad to see lots of others appreciate Mick (and Japan) as much as I do.
Jaco was great, but aside from playing a fretless bass, there's NOTHING similar about Jaco's and Mick's styles. Both had their own radically unique sound and a drastically different approach to tone, melody and accompaniment. Mick Karn was nobody's gnome. :)
A group that time has forgot but they were ahead… R&R Hall of Fame is passing so many great groups of the 80’s. Japan is one of them, Duran Duran want it to be them, everybody want to look like David Sylvian.
@@ConfusingAmbiguous-Burks-nx7jq Awesome man!!!! looking forward to it. My favorite Track of all Time is Red Guitar by David Sylvian. I have the Book: Self existence and Japan by Mick Karn. If you need some special pics from Japan When they were young hit me up!
And it sounds as fresh in 2024 as it did in 1982, he was not just unique because of the sound , the notes and "Riffs" to the most advanced Bass players are really hard to achieve, remember Mick wasn't even taught / trained in any music collage nor decided as one of 5 what instrument to pick up when Japan formed
And with his legendary greed too! No other Japan member (including his own brother Steve) was able to make a living out of music at the time, Sylvian was keeping all the money and royalties because of another bad *bad* human being, manager Simon Napier-Bell, who allowed that.
Oh yeah...Karn's playing was unreal and honestly could of sold out but bless em those Japan lads were true artists...that rubbery bass stands out...they were able to integrate analog with digital very well...
Many years ago, I did a fret-removal with my Jazz bass. Maple neck, and I filled in the fret slots with strips of ebony wood, so I still had the lines there as a guide. It still looked like a fretted bass, so folks wondered how I was getting a "fretless" sound out if it. haha. Eventually I wanted to restore that bass to vintage, so got it re-fretted and then got myself a bass with a nice, "no lines" fretless neck. :) After all these decades, I'm still learning... and that's the great thing about playing music. :)
A frickin beast on the bass, full stop, big loss, RIP MICK KARN, theres a reason why Japan's music is not copied, they were a one off, no 1 dare try copy as can't b matched, Pete Townshend said karn the best bass player he played with, after playing with him
I love the way you struggle to describe the whole ensemble that is / was Japan. The greatest art cannot be put in a box and defined in terms of genre. Thats kinda the point. Throughout all the work of all those guys beginning to end they rode an inexplicable wave of otherworldly genius.
Mick basically carried Gary Numan after he slid a bit post-Telekon. Dance and I, Assassin were great albums, and I believe this was largely (if not solely) due to Mick's enigmatic bass lines and "funk" sensibilities. On a side note: he and Alan Aguirre of Scaterd Few are proof that shaved eyebrows do grow back. lol
Pino Palladino was the Bassist on I Assassin. I've wondered if Pino was the benefactor of artists in the early 80's wanting in the ballpark of a Mick Karn sound, but with someone who could read music, charts, and just play the session role without dominating the music. According to Midge Ure, Mick Karn had a particular, inflexible method of composing, reflecting his autodidactic exowrience. His unorthodox method was a struggle for numerous more traditional collaborators, and shows in how often it was a one and done gig. Midge himself loved Mick and collaborated numerous times.
@@PjRjHj very good points you made. Pino was reportedly asked to sound like Mick on that occasion, but then again, nobody could ever sound exactly like him. They went as far as using the same effects for Palladino to emulate that haunting sound (that Pino could easily achieve by himself when given the opportunity with Paul Young), and so, in Mick's own words: "Sometimes he sounded like me, but then sometimes he didn't". They eventually met, Mick says in his book that he wanted to hate Pino, but he couldn't cause he's too much of a nice guy (which is true). Another example would be the only Arcadia album (So Red The Rose, 1985), the famous Duran Duran spin-off. Now, the producer was Alex Sadkin, who had produced Pastorius at some point. The fretless bass player on the album is the amazing Mark Egan. Well, let me tell you, the Durans being the Japan fans that they are, it is obvious that Egan was there exclusively to remind the listeners of Mick's sound and basslines. Perhaps he wasn't aware of that, but it is *clearly* the direction he was put on. Songs like Lady Ice or The Promise were surely arranged with Mick in mind. Also, it is interesting to listen to Rice Music by Masami Tsuchiya, an album that was suggested to me by Mark Egan. Masami played guitar with both Japan and Arcadia, and used both Mick and the great Percy Jones on fretless bass. Percy was a huge influence of Mick's, and sometimes you can't really tell which one of them is playing on a particular song (cause it's not mentioned in the credits). Mick is heavily missed. As you said, it wasn't easy to have him work as a session player, but when given enough freedom he could come up with the best musical ideas. Thanks if you read this far! 🙂
Steve Jansen was/is one amazing "real" drummer. he works with machines, but on Japan he was the real thing. But Micks very best work (for me) is Dance album from Numan.
Amazing REAL drummer for sure... but he was one of the earliest to record with the Linn LM-1 on some songs, and in the studio, I feel like they were open to using whatever tools they had access to to get the sounds they wanted. Sequences and timing tracks with various layered percussion elements - acoustic and/or electronically generated. But for sure... Steve Jansen is a fantastic human drummer. :)
This misses the mark on SO many levels. Steve Jansen is David Sylvian' brother and an incredible drummer. Mick Karn was a multi instrumentalist and a trained and accomplished reed player.
Im a drummer, and I can tell you. Steve Jansen is an absolute BEAST.
Being a drummer, you’re probably as shocked as I am that he said nothing about Mick’s friendship and collaborations with Terry Bozzio.
Japan may have used drum machines and sequencers in the studio but they did have a 'real' drummer (Steve Jansen) and he was definitely brillliant...
Steve didn’t just play drums, he composed intricate rhythms with combinations of electronic and acoustic instruments which included African and Eastern drums too.
@@symbiat0 Oh yeah, absolutely. My comment was more about when Burk is talking about Japan's combination/duality between synth-based music and Mick's organic bass sound. Steve Jansen is both a talented rhythm creator in the studio and a very 'organic' drummer onstage.
Agreed❤
Steve Jansen was that accurate as a drummer he sounded like a machine
This is about Mick Karn , have you got the correct feed
Mick Karn was truly unique in this universe ❤
Not to mention, his stage presence and style was over the top amazing. I think he was a star. And I agree that the best part of Japan was the rhythm section.
I'm a big fan of Mick Karn. Such unique musicians are missing these days. Thx❤️🔥
I would go so far as to say Mick Karn was one of the greatest bass players of all time. He was a one-off.. Nobody played a fretless bass like Karn, and there has been nothing like him ever since his sad death. A true great and more people should recognise this..
Mick had his own unique style which to this day has never been emulated ( copied ) by anyone else ! A true mark of respect to the great man . He inspired me to learn fretless bass and his lines ! His bassline, to Dalis Car, with Pete Murphy is amazing 👌
Not really. He learned a lot from fretless virtuoso Percy Jones. Jones playing is truly extraordinary and he was before Jaco.@stephenbennett1643
@@Fontsman-14Disagree: Your missing the point... You are not factoring in the importance of "uniqueness". Its not about how good technically you are, its "uniqueness"
@colin_a Jones is far more unique than Karn. He's developed a style that is all his own that fully utilises his amazing abilities.
@@Fontsman-14You are still missing the point. Its about his "uniqueness", not his physical / technical abilities, as he doesn't have the skill of Jones, or Pastorius.., that's what makes him different from the rest..
that guy first inspired me to pick up a bass then a guitar. Total hero of mine
Non-musicians may not be aware, but a talented bassist playing a fretless bass, despite the sliding effect of some patterns that seem to give a rough character to the riff, has an incredibly precise fingering. On a fretless bass, an F sharp and a G flat are not the same, with the former being just a tiny bit lower than the latter. And Mick Karn was an exceptional bassist.
My favorite song with Mick Karn on the bass? The Art of Parties. Because of the way everything blends smoothly. And Jesus, Sylvian's Voice! It's not the piece where Karn shows off his greatest virtuosity, but it's just incredible how all the tracks come together to create something totally amazing and very danceable. I can't help but wonder WTF, what are these chords? And yet my feet dance on their own.
Agreed, the groove/riff of Mick’s bass on Art Of Parties is perfectly perfect 👌
His style was slick. His note choice,melodies and riffs next lvel genius. He injected slick funk. I'm a jazz funker and consider him cutting edge jazz funk
Jazz funk is a good description... I've always been drawn to musicians and artists who tend to defy categories... Karn was sort of otherworldly. Outside of the genre he was a part of... He's got the free sensibilities of jazz and the rhythmic groove of funk, but he also had a lot of world music feel, non-western types of melodic progression and he dared to go into the full-on experimental realms, too. I suspect his time with woodwinds and other non-pop types of music informed his unexpected style in Japan. I've heard it said that he didn't play bass like a bass player. I can't think of anyone who he reminds me of or who reminds me of him... Some folks say Jaco, but aside from the fretless thing, there's not a whole lot of similarities I can hear. There were some folks who were evidently influenced by him of course (I think Karn maybe instigated that 80s trend of the upfront, funky bass player in otherwise electronic-driven pop bands like Duran Duran, Kajagoogoo, et al ), but nobody really had Mick Karn's particular approach to a bass groove. :)
Excellent analysis & tribute Sir! Thank you for remembering this awesome bass player & gentleman.❤🇬🇧
Japan’s music is timeless. I was hugely into them as a kid in the 80s. Though he was kinda ignored a bit after Japan broke up, it was Mick Karn who came out with his solo album first. I bought the vinyl back in the day. Interesting thing: I (re)bought it on CD years later and like Bowie’s Heroes album, it contained one or two extra, previously unreleased tracks which are fantastic. Makes you wonder what else is sitting on tape in a box somewhere.
I bought my first bass a week after Mick Karn died…
I have so many vinyl/CD duplicates, and yes, it's worth it for the extras.... and definitely - Japan is one of those bands I always go back to. Amazingly ahead of their time, even now.
Mick was really something else.
Mick's bass playing was indeed astonishing, in both feel and creativity, and he was also a, accomplished multi- instrumentalist - sax, flute, clarinet, oboe, horns.... Every member of Japan was a virtuoso player in their own right, really. The drums are in fact played, some acoustic, some syndrums, with some sequenced Linn percussion on a couple of tracks. It was pretty much before the days of sampling (at least outside of major studios that had access to a Synclavier or Fairlight). Tin Drum's production was also revolutionary - the first to be recorded pretty much dry, with very little ambience; great work by Steve Nye.
All are/were great musicians, the album Tin Drum still sounds fantastic today, 40 years on. I believe Mick was self taught, couldn't read music and didn't just play bass, a huge talent and sadly missed...
No Sir, he was classically trained as a Cellist.
What a bass player ! Thanks for this pod cast.
Great tribute to Mick Karn 🙏
Another player who reminds me of him, is
"Nick Beggs". 🎸
Both different but still creative & innovative styles 😎✌️
A unique base player. Tin Drum is an unusual album not like anything else.
Play it when I'm driving.
Thanks for the tribute.
This is really spot on thank you
Thank you for educating and putting the spotlight on great musicians, who were not a household name. I much like you, feel that some of these musicians should be recognized, remembered , listened to and talked about. You are spot on about Mick Karn. There are many musicians of this calibre who most people never even heard of.
Mick Karn is a huge influence on my playing. He’s the reason I got a fretless when I was 15. However, I’m 51 and throughout my entire life I’ve NEVER heard anyone mention Paul Webb of Talk Talk. His playing isn’t as busy as Mick’s , but in my opinion, just as unique. His playing on Talk Talk’s “It’s My Life” record is fantastic. I recall many conversations with other bassists over the past few decades, and was shocked that they never heard of him. Well, evidently Paul Webb is even more obscure, which is weird because Talk Talk actually had a lot more visibility and airplay in the U.S. in the 80’s than Japan. He deserves the same attention. I’ve scoured the internet and have found next to nothing on Paul Webb.
Excellent point. Paul Webb is definitely a bass player to focus on. I've talked a lot about Talk Talk, but never really zoomed in on him, and you're right - a huge part of Talk Talk's sound is him. I usually hate to have "favorites" but if I'm forced to pick favorites, Talk Talk is a contender. The later albums AND the early ones, and Mark Hollis's solo album. Amazing stuff.
so glad you covered japan great band great bass player and he had the coolest hair
Great video! Love Mick Karn, he's a big inspiration while writing music. Cheers from India!
I'd really like you to check out my music(on my channel, or I can send it to you via email if you'd like). Cheers
Absolute class bass player.
Steve Jansen amazing drummer
Absolutely adore Dali’s Car. Was my go-to as an art student.
Amazing style. Love that Wall bass sound!
Wal.
Great video my friend Mick Karn is my favorite bassist I am a fretless j bass player these days and he was unique inspiring and incredible Thanks So Much for educating the world about Mick and creating this great well thought out introduction to his vibe. 🙏
That beautiful rubbery twangin sound Mick introduced was unique, no one really copied it apart from...
You missed out Gary Numans album Dance, There is some great bass playing of Micks on there.
You're right... great album!
Mick Karn for me the greatest bass player in the world from my favourite band Japan…. America needs to hear their work.
Very nice to see Mick remembered. Just in case you didn't know (though you may), Mick and Peter made another Dali's Car album called 'Ingladaloness' just after his diagnosis. It was his last work and I don't think they finished it before he passed but they released it with 5 tracks. Check it out if you haven't. As mature gentlemen they worked quite well together this time around. :)
I saw Japan live in Liverpool, they were incredible, they were a unique band and all extremely talented. Mick Karn should be acknowledged as being up there with Jaco Pistorius if not better.
The Waking Hour has been one of my favorite albums since I heard it first as a teenager in the mid 80s. I also dig Japan a lot. Then again, I'm a bass player.
I love Mick Karn's base on the song Answers to Nothing by Midge Ure
Mick is indeed on that album but the bass player on that song is Mark King of Level 42. Mick didn't slap...
i saw him play with David Torn , Mark Isham and Bruford . Cloud About Mercury tour.
So happy you mentioned Dali’s Car. Some of the best music ever.
Have you seen the Angie Bowie Mick Karn 1981.
I got his early solos stuff.
But didn’t know about the others. Thank man.
Thankyou for you talk about this
Mick wasn't just the bassist in Japan. He was responsible for sax (from the second album on), clarinet, oboe, bass recorder (on 'Ain't That Peculiar') and an Asian reed instrument called Dida or Suona on Tin Drum. His first instrument was actually the bassoon.
Genius bass player
I have all of Japans albums and the one Mick did too ❤ awesome musicians 🌟
Karn was amazing. I have Tin Drum and always thought it was hilarious they were called Japan and they had a picture of Mao Zedong hanging on the wall. I was never too fond on Silvian’s voice. The instrumental stuff he did with Barbieri and Jansen is what I’m really into. Great video.
And their song "Cantonese Boy," too. :)
'Dreams Of Reason Produce Monsters' - is a great album of Mr Karn's. It may not grab you at first, but give it a few listens and you'll be hooked.
Great album but probably not the best one if you're looking for bass. On this album he tried to focus more on the composition rather than bass playing.
mick was an absolute genius.
his solo work is mindblowing.
japan quite possibly had the greatest amount of talent in one act ever seen. each member was unique and genial. maybe thats exactly why it imploded just as they were going massive
Thanks 👌 for enlightening me too 2 off favorite Fretless Bass guitar 🎸 player's, also Mick Karn was a Clarent Player..
Dali's Car was excellent - great bass playing - not sure they really got on. Still considering getting a fretless bass.... maybe this year.
If you haven't already, I would recommend borrowing or maybe renting one for a while to see if you like the way it plays, and the whole new language and technique, etc... Fretless is pretty unique way of playing. I know a few bass players who tried it for a while and couldn't really find their own user interface with it, and went back to the frets. I also know some bass players who jumped in and felt like they'd found "home" and never went back to frets... :)
I believe he was Cypriot, and therefore grew up hearing Easten Mediterranean enharmonic music - which would explain his originality
Yes! And I think playing a fretless bass gave him easier access to those notes in the various non-western scales. :)
@@ConfusingAmbiguous-Burks-nx7jq Yes absolutely. I think it shows remarkable skill, being able to blend eastern and western sounds.
Came to London at age of 3, but obviously family links to Cyprus gave him exposure to other Middle Eastern influences. His autobiography is fascinating .. and available in Digital format too.
Mick Darn played on Gary Numan's album, "Dance". The legend goes that he was tuning up and warming up, and that bass ended up on the song, "Slow Car To China". He also played on Joan Armatrading's album Square The Circle, which was fairly AOR.
Karn legend !
Fantastic!
I think the term you're looking for in terms of the "electronic" sound that Japan had. Richard Barbieri is as much of a sound designer as a musician. So, I would state that there is definitely a heavy electronic sound design type sound, mixed with Karn's bass playing made for compelling listening. I would recommend listening to compositions by "JBK". Amazing stuff by Jansen, Barbieri, and Karn. I really enjoyed this video, love to hear other people's perspectives on this topic.
The fact he had no idea what he was playing is just as miraculous as his basslines
I've read a lot about how sometimes (not always) learning music theory and the "proper" way to create progressions and melodies can erase that "natural" musical inventiveness that some folks have. Sometimes learning theory can open up the musical world, and other times it can limit.
The descriptor you're looking for is 'intuitive'. His concept was the opposite of an academic.
He also played woodwind in the the national youth orchestra and had to leave when they discovered he couldn’t read music! Allegedly!
Mick Karn was of Greek Cypriot origin. I think the influence really shows in his music. By the way, Steve Jansen is not a drum machine ;)
Steve Jansen (Batt) David Sylvian's brother was an amazing drummer. His timing was sick. So much so that there was no flamming when he played along with sequences and arpeggiators. Completely underrated!
Don't forget Karn played fretted basses on the first two Japan albums. When he switched to fretless, he was just on another level. I didn't rate Jaco, as he seemed to be a one trick pony when you've heard most of the records he played on. But, Karn was so inventive.
The genre that you were trying to pin point is called new wave! Or sometimes referred to as post punk
Phenomenal band
Mick was a genius.... one of a kind
My favourite solo Karn albums are The Tooth Mother, and Bestial Cluster. They're first rate.
Japan are the only band that I have ever know to just get better and better. Such a shame they broke up :(. Mick Karns solo records are also worth a listen.
I'm pretty sure it is Dalis without the apostrophe. Great video, thumbs up.
You are correct! Odd choice to spell it that way... If I fix it, I'll probably get some comments telling me I left out the apostrophe. haha.
Thank you. I didn't know that. ALL the best.@@Nauysvyf
Do you have "Polytown"? The album he did with Terry Bozzio & David Torn.
Great album. I talk about that one in the "Part 2" :)
Well said sir. Mick was a god. Over here in the UK when Japan were in their prime, a journalist from a music magazine described Mick as "a gnome playing at the bottom of Jaco's garden". The t@t obviously thought he was being clever by slagging Mick off. What a t@sser. Anyway, having read many of the comments, I'm glad to see lots of others appreciate Mick (and Japan) as much as I do.
Jaco was great, but aside from playing a fretless bass, there's NOTHING similar about Jaco's and Mick's styles. Both had their own radically unique sound and a drastically different approach to tone, melody and accompaniment. Mick Karn was nobody's gnome. :)
A group that time has forgot but they were ahead… R&R Hall of Fame is passing so many great groups of the 80’s. Japan is one of them, Duran Duran want it to be them, everybody want to look like David Sylvian.
Dedicated episode to david sylvian next pls :)
Already working on that... and it might have to be more than one episode. :)
@@ConfusingAmbiguous-Burks-nx7jq Awesome man!!!! looking forward to it. My favorite Track of all Time is Red Guitar by David Sylvian.
I have the Book: Self existence and Japan by Mick Karn. If you need some special pics from Japan When they were young hit me up!
And it sounds as fresh in 2024 as it did in 1982, he was not just unique because of the sound , the notes and "Riffs" to the most advanced Bass players are really hard to achieve, remember Mick wasn't even taught / trained in any music collage nor decided as one of 5 what instrument to pick up when Japan formed
...also had to contend with Sylvian's narcissism. Then came the end.
And with his legendary greed too! No other Japan member (including his own brother Steve) was able to make a living out of music at the time, Sylvian was keeping all the money and royalties because of another bad *bad* human being, manager Simon Napier-Bell, who allowed that.
Oh yeah...Karn's playing was unreal and honestly could of sold out but bless em those Japan lads were true artists...that rubbery bass stands out...they were able to integrate analog with digital very well...
Tin Drum and one of favourite albums. Goldie used Ghosts to great effect too. Played on Gary Numans Warriors too.
'Dance' album not 'Warriors'.
@@adebrown1355 yes you're quite right , my mistake
Whoa, Steve Jansen was the brilliant drummer behind those beats, not a drum machine
Mick was *The Pioneer* rip Mick
Mick made me find a bass and learn to play. Later on I removed the frets of course.
Many years ago, I did a fret-removal with my Jazz bass. Maple neck, and I filled in the fret slots with strips of ebony wood, so I still had the lines there as a guide. It still looked like a fretted bass, so folks wondered how I was getting a "fretless" sound out if it. haha. Eventually I wanted to restore that bass to vintage, so got it re-fretted and then got myself a bass with a nice, "no lines" fretless neck. :) After all these decades, I'm still learning... and that's the great thing about playing music. :)
Still waiting for that biographical film
A frickin beast on the bass, full stop, big loss, RIP MICK KARN, theres a reason why Japan's music is not copied, they were a one off, no 1 dare try copy as can't b matched, Pete Townshend said karn the best bass player he played with, after playing with him
The only Japan song that solely used a drum machine was Despair on the Quiet Life album
I love the way you struggle to describe the whole ensemble that is / was Japan. The greatest art cannot be put in a box and defined in terms of genre. Thats kinda the point. Throughout all the work of all those guys beginning to end they rode an inexplicable wave of otherworldly genius.
Mick basically carried Gary Numan after he slid a bit post-Telekon. Dance and I, Assassin were great albums, and I believe this was largely (if not solely) due to Mick's enigmatic bass lines and "funk" sensibilities.
On a side note: he and Alan Aguirre of Scaterd Few are proof that shaved eyebrows do grow back. lol
Pino Palladino was the Bassist on I Assassin.
I've wondered if Pino was the benefactor of artists in the early 80's wanting in the ballpark of a Mick Karn sound, but with someone who could read music, charts, and just play the session role without dominating the music.
According to Midge Ure, Mick Karn had a particular, inflexible method of composing, reflecting his autodidactic exowrience. His unorthodox method was a struggle for numerous more traditional collaborators, and shows in how often it was a one and done gig. Midge himself loved Mick and collaborated numerous times.
I did not know that about Pino. Thank you for clarifying. 🙂@@PjRjHj
@@PjRjHj very good points you made. Pino was reportedly asked to sound like Mick on that occasion, but then again, nobody could ever sound exactly like him. They went as far as using the same effects for Palladino to emulate that haunting sound (that Pino could easily achieve by himself when given the opportunity with Paul Young), and so, in Mick's own words: "Sometimes he sounded like me, but then sometimes he didn't". They eventually met, Mick says in his book that he wanted to hate Pino, but he couldn't cause he's too much of a nice guy (which is true).
Another example would be the only Arcadia album (So Red The Rose, 1985), the famous Duran Duran spin-off. Now, the producer was Alex Sadkin, who had produced Pastorius at some point. The fretless bass player on the album is the amazing Mark Egan. Well, let me tell you, the Durans being the Japan fans that they are, it is obvious that Egan was there exclusively to remind the listeners of Mick's sound and basslines. Perhaps he wasn't aware of that, but it is *clearly* the direction he was put on. Songs like Lady Ice or The Promise were surely arranged with Mick in mind.
Also, it is interesting to listen to Rice Music by Masami Tsuchiya, an album that was suggested to me by Mark Egan. Masami played guitar with both Japan and Arcadia, and used both Mick and the great Percy Jones on fretless bass. Percy was a huge influence of Mick's, and sometimes you can't really tell which one of them is playing on a particular song (cause it's not mentioned in the credits).
Mick is heavily missed. As you said, it wasn't easy to have him work as a session player, but when given enough freedom he could come up with the best musical ideas.
Thanks if you read this far! 🙂
Karn was heavily influenced by Percy Jones. Jones is as important as Jaco and pre dated him. There is also the great Alphonso Johnson.
Steve Jansen was/is one amazing "real" drummer. he works with machines, but on Japan he was the real thing.
But Micks very best work (for me) is Dance album from Numan.
🇳🇱😉👍
Not sure Steve Jansen drummer with Japan would appreciate saying they used drum machines
Amazing REAL drummer for sure... but he was one of the earliest to record with the Linn LM-1 on some songs, and in the studio, I feel like they were open to using whatever tools they had access to to get the sounds they wanted. Sequences and timing tracks with various layered percussion elements - acoustic and/or electronically generated. But for sure... Steve Jansen is a fantastic human drummer. :)
Three was no bad albums that he played on
Check the facts. Japan had a drummer called Steve Jansen. He was not a drum machine!
Don't forget Dali's Car...Mick and Peter Murphy's side project.
Check out the video. :)
@@ConfusingAmbiguous-Burks-nx7jq Had I waited a little longer before I commented I would have seen you covered it! 🤣
This misses the mark on SO many levels. Steve Jansen is David Sylvian' brother and an incredible drummer. Mick Karn was a multi instrumentalist and a trained and accomplished reed player.
Forget not about Rain Tree Crow
I thought Jansen and Karn were a superb rhythm section.
Just talking and talking but showing no images or videos of him playing.. a bit boring, could be more dynamic maybe..🙁
Stopped at 5:35. Appreciate the appreciation of MK, but the "drum machine" thing? I'll be polite and call it a misunderstanding.
Stanley Clarke.
Not hearing any of the music, just talking is very boring.
Wal fretless.
you are not able to construct one sentence clearly
Jaco was crap
Mick karn played with gray numan on his solo album listen to the track called a subway called you