I feel so very blessed to have found Irvin Baxter and his ministry. I was first taught the left behind series and I felt that it was lacking in scriptural truth.
Irvin Baxter was amazing ..When asked a question ...he quoted Scripture ...How could they not see it....The man was in the Spirit ....HE'S ABSOLUTELY RIGHT . ...On ALL points
All due respect, the church is more harmed by teaching they will not be here. And then they are. That would devastate people in my opinion. Great discussion!
We didn't arrange the interview or know who was going to be there. The best we know to do at Endtime is to preach the message God has given us. Our desire isn't to debate or highlight mistakes made, but rather provide scripture for questions, and help the Word to be used as light for their path. An interview on the largest TV network in the world is a great opportunity to plant the seed and eventually fulfill our mission to preach the Gospel of the Kingdom to every person on earth...
Irvin had all the scriptures, the others didn't site any scriptures, just what they thought they meant--not stating what they say. Thank you Irvin for your intense study of God's word for the endtimes, I love hearing these videos they are so uplifting and trib or not we do have a great hope through all the bad times, love it...God Bless!
i would love to write Bro Baxters, words down in a notebook to study his views word for word, to see everything he says, and truly study it out, because there is so much knowledge in there i can't even keep up, he just knows so much, he has studied so well that he's blowing our minds!!!
Thanks to Bro. Baxter for his command of the scripture. It is an absolute apparent evidence of the devotion to study he has committed himself to. You have inspired me to dust off my bible, and spend more time in the word. If Christians would study the word, rather than regurgitate what they hear once a week on Sunday morning, there would be less division in Christ's body.
The important thing is what scripture says, brother Irvin Baxter is quoting a lot of scripture and is making a lot of sense. Gods Word will bring wisdom not confusion.
Its contrary to the natural man. But to the spirit man it makes sense. The church will go thru these times. He will bless the faithful, but the church will be here just as Irvin mentioned.
To teach the truth to all who'll listen..isn't that what preachers do? How will they hear if no one teaches? I'm positive God is behind this and blessing Irvin's message of truth. God help us all to pray for and be behind our ministers as well..in Jesus name.
its good to listen to the different views, but the most important thing in my mind is to just be ready....keep serving the Lord and sharing the gospel and watching the signs of his return......everything else will take care of itself :)
What a good moment! Generals of Almighty God, be blessed to share what you've given by the Lord Jesus with love. Some of you have gone to be with the Lord. Hallelujah! Maranatha, Jesus is coming soon!
Pre trib makes modern Christians feel good. A lot like the prosperity gospel being taught by many Televangelists makes people feel good.Unfortunately I believe a lot of modern Christians will have their entire worldview shattered when they find out the pre trib rapture is not true
I am in agreement with Tim LaHaye Pre-Tribulation view, per Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee FROM the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth
Yes, and we already have tribulation; Jesus said, "In this world, ye shall have tribulation, but be of good cheer, for I have overcome the world". He clearly told them that they, and we, would have tribulation. But those people He was talking to, did not go through the "time of Great Tribulation" that Jesus said was unlike any time before, or ever again. which Jesus said. It isn't a matter of not going through tribulation, but only of being spared that special time of "great tribulation" that is unlike any other time. We in America think that in our relative prosperity, and our ungodly love of prosperity, we do not have tribulation, now, but in other countries, they are in very bad tribulation, so the church is going through serious tribulation now, and it is supposed to be as if it was happening to us, since it is happening to our brothers and sisters, the body of Christ. So tribulation is now and always, yet not one of the people Jesus was talking to, all the way to us in our day, have been through the time Jesus spoke of as the time of great tribulation, unlike any other before or since. This is in Matthew 24:21, but all the way back, in Matthew 24:9, He says that we will be persecuted and some of us would be killed. That's pretty serious tribulation, but it still isn't that time like no other, ever. Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. I really do not understand everything about this; I know I am pre-wrath, but I take the position of pre-trib, and constantly have to fight the accusation that pre-trib is a set up for apostasy, because of the supposed assumptions about the prosperity of believers, which, which when it proves not to be true, people will lose their faith. But again, the pre-trib position is not of no tribulation at all, because Jesus taught otherwise. It is prosperity gospel, prosperity doctrines and just the love of prosperity and sense of entitlement to it that causes people to have false expectations that they may blame God when they do not come true. Just that one time of great tribulation, we will not go through. I am not sure enough of the whole issue, so I'm pre-wrath, and provisionally pre-trib. I just don't understand well enough to put all my eggs in the pre-trib basket, although I generally go with it. I am sure of pre-wrath, though. That, at least, is promised, and I think we know what will happen that makes these elements work together, we will know when we see them happen.
Just a little truth for the pastors here . I love you guy's because you are preaching the word . I love all who preach the word . I preach the word . Not to the audiences that you have but I still get it out there . I know you have good hearts . All of you . I love the U . S . A . You are my southern neighbor . I ' ve been there and see how you live . We definetly have similarities but are very different . It is all good . (More to come in next post )
Awesome interview! I grew up in Tim LaHaye's church and he loves Jesus SO much. This I know is true yet he is a man too. I have been asking the Spirit to show me the truth on this; Evangelist Anita Fuentes has a letter from Corrie Ten Boom that really makes you think...so I do believe now in post yet we will overcome DURING the tribulation. Just my thoughts..
Irvin is using scripture to backup everything he says. He is not going by emotion and saying that Christians should be taken out just because we are the bride of Christ. The Apostles are also included in the bride of Christ but they went though tribulation.
Those who teach about the pre-tribulation is planning to cause the church to fall away by discouraging them that they have been left out like about the song (american pie) that says God took the last train for the coast. That's what the Bible talks about the falling away of many believers.
I totally agree with pastor baxter about the rapture after the great tribulation. Revelation 7:13 Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes-who are they, and where did they come from?” 14 I answered, “Sir, you know.” And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Thats not evidence of the rapture after the great tribulation. That could be referring to those who were killed during the tribulation which does not contradict a catching away occurring before the tribulation. There would be those left behind that will turn to Christ and be killed for it and then we'd have this new remnant of folks in heaven at the altar that will come as a shock to the angels who figured all the saved were already taken.
The apostles went through satan's wrath, not God's wrath. Jesus took God's wrath so Christians don't have to. God promised to spare his people from the hour of his wrath. That is the tribulation. God has done the same in times past. He spared Lot. He spared Noah. God has saved his people during his own wrath. Jesus warned we would have tribulation in the world (Satan's wrath), but the word used for that tribulation is different than the word used for tribulation in Revelation.
Mark 13:11-13 "Now brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. And you will be hated by all for My name's sake. But he who endures to the end shall be saved."
Matthew 5:10-12 "Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, For theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven...."
We have to be around people and be a light...this is the will of God to reach truth, we sure can't do it sitting in a closet. He's doing nothing wrong. He is not saying they are right, in fact he is saying they are not right and many are starting to see truth from this...obviously the founder of this station is very impressed by God's work via Irvin. I think people will come to truth and be saved..lets all pray they do...thats the plan for doing it.Amen
As usual, Brother Baxter, you did a great job explaining the post-trib position, which I was taught as a boy, by my Grandmother. I was impressed with your Scripture Memory. There are two comments that have labelled the other people "false teachers." Well, does that mean that you were a false teacher when you were pre-trib? Is it possible to be a true Man of God, and yet, disagree on issues, such as the Trinity, and pre-trib/post-trib? Which of us have perfect understanding?
"Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant BY WHICH HE WAS SANCTIFIED a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?" (Heb. 10:29)
+Paul Bortolazzo Paul you are so seriously confused about what the word of God is telling you. If you obey John 3:3-5 like Jesus commanded you to do as it is a must, and as they all did that believed on him in Acts...then maybe you might see and understand..as Jesus said you couldn't/wouldn't if you didn't obey his commandments... And that is the answer/ reason for so many different teachings and confusion and deceptions...people do not obey...they totally make excuses not to. Remember Noah was not saved by faith...he was saved through obedience, he listened to God and he obeyed him
+Paul Bortolazzo Both Trinity Broadcasting Network and Daystar promote teachers bringing destructive heresies denying the Lord. (2 Pet. 2:1) A regular guest on these networks is a popular post tribulation prophecy teacher, Irwin Baxter! This Oneness preacher (Apostolic or Jesus only) believes to be saved you must be baptized only in the name of Jesus (false), you must speak in tongues (false), and you must believe in the blasphemy the Son is somehow the Father (false)! No one embracing such heresies is abiding in the doctrine of Christ; nor are they saved! (2 John 1:9) The danger of those preaching on Christian TV is the lack of accountability. Viewers are constantly scolded not to judge God's anointed. They glibly say David refused to stretch his hand out against the anointed of God. The truth is David refused to physically harm Saul. The context was physical; not spiritual. (1 Sam. 24:1-6)
Paul Bortolazzo Because that's what the Bible says...there is one name by which we all are and must be saved and that name is Jesus. John 3:3-5....3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Acts 2:38..(And so they did obey and Peter taught this as did all in the entire book of Acts) 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts is the book of salvation coming after the Bio's of Jesus that built our faith in him..and after Acts/salvation is the books to the saved people/churches....simple Everyone was baptized in Jesus name, all spoke in tongues as the evidence of receiving the Holy Ghost, the Spirit birth as we're told we must have the water and the Spirit by Jesus in John 3:3-5. There is no other name under heaven by which we must be saved...period.
Rick Joyner was the only reason why i watched this and he was the only one making sense to me. But i understand why he was almost silent for the whole first hour. i kind of believe he was thinking "what the heck am i doing here".
Tim La Haye said the rapture is the blessed hope. Does he know his bible? My bible says the Blessed Hope is the return of our Lord Jesus Christ. The pre-tribers are looking for the rapture instead of the return of Christ. The rapture is the gathering of the saints when Our Lord returns. Scripture says, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our Great God and Savior Jesus Christ. Titus 2:13
Here is the TRUTH. If someone doesn't have true salvation according to Acts 2:38, then they don't have God's spirit living inside them. We can all agree that God's Spirit, which is the Holy Ghost, is Truth, and Jesus declared and told us in the Bible that His Spirit would tell us and remind us, all the things that Jesus had taught us. So if someone doesn't have the gift of God's spirit living inside them with evidence of speaking in tongues, then they are not in complete Truth, and they are comfortable with being complacent so then they are not seeking God for Truth, they just believe a lie. This Bro. Baxter (the guy on the right from the viewers view) has it right though. He is correct.
You absolutely HAVE TO HAVE the Holy Spirit or you do not belong to Christ! Romans Chapter 8 and verse 9.....I pray for Tim Lahaye....He needs Jesus, he needs truth...Lord let him find you and your truth God!
The book of The Acts of the Apostles is pure history of what happened when the Holy Ghost filled a believer.... they spoke in the Heavenly language. It's obvious that if you do not speak in that Heavenly language that you are not filled with the Holy Spirit! There is no other way to rightly divide that word and you are not living your life according to God's word. That is a very sobering thought and if I did not have the Holy Spirit with that evidence....I would be doing everything I can to get it. You would be an utter fool to ignore the truth!
Proverbs 10:30 The righteous shall NEVER BE REMOVED, but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth. Praise God! I do not want to be removed, I want to reign here on earth with my Lord Jesus for a thousand yrs. Lord God, give me the wisdom and strength to stand for You when I'm taken before the antichrist! I love You my Lord :)
Tim Lahaye and Paul Crouch have passed away. Rick Joyner is very humble. Irvin has Endtimes Ministries. They are both worth listening to and would definitely recommend them.
Tim LaHaye has made a great deal of money from spreading false doctrine and yet he says " I wont be spreading any false doctrine from this book" well sir, you have done just exactly that.
and all you who comment about lather....he wrote the books to give people hope not to make money.he could have never dreamed how many copies he would sell. only God had him do this at just the right time. it's the people who bought the books that made them best sellers.
The whole earth plunges into darkness because the light i s taken out. The light that is the church is not snuffed out by darkness. Darkness is merely the absence of light. Common sense.
Perry didnt win that debate at all, lol is that a joke? Seriously. He couldnt even be understood, Irvin uses the word not some made up philosophy of man
What the first gentleman in the beginning of the show up until 2:30 marker said, so now it is now 2017, 5-6 yrs. since this show aired and look where we are now with Islam, Russia, and Israel. So the takeaway is post-trib is the TRUTH. We going through it now, only the final seven years has not started just yet, but if the UN annouces a sharing agreement of the temple mount, towards Sept. 22 or 23 2017 then the final seven years will start at that point. If not then one thing is certain when ever the Temple mount comes under a sharing agreement with Palestine and the Israelites then that's the start of the final 7 years.
It says to beware of false prophets, Irvin isn't agreeing with them on salvation issues,etc. Big difference. He's there to teach them truth and revelations God has given him. I think people get way to bent outta shape over things like your doing...if it's meant for good then God is for it and thats what we should be as well...my goodness
I don't agree with Baxter on everything but I think he did speak more accurately in my opinion then the late Tim LaHaye. This idea of Rev 4 revealing a picture of the rapture is way too much of a stretch and never have liked such a treatment of the passage as such. Secondly the idea that the church will be raptured out before tribulation persecution because Jesus would not want to see his bride beat up.....(as Tim) puts forth....well what about Christians today in 2017 who YES are persecuted and killed. How come they get treated is such a different way if it's a non possibility for good saints? God never promised that there would never be martyrs for the faith. God's wrath doesn't start until Rev 6 : 17 (end of the chapter) and it even states for the great day of his wrath IS COME. Is Come means it's about to start . The seal No 5 in Rev 6 is persecution tribulation but it's not a judgment of God but rather actions of the anti-Christ.
hey dont knock pastor baxter he came their to bring them the truth Jesus is giving them a chance to realy understand the scriptures pastor baxter backed everything up with scripture he quited alot more scripture than all the others combined to get them to understand what the bible says is vital to salvation when the rapture happens not realy the most important thing is our relationship to our lord and saviour Jesus and our relationship to our fellow man love thy neighbor as thy self
For Dr. Tim LaHaye please read Luke 21, this might change your opinion about pre-trib. I guess people who are not ready to die for their faith in Jesus Christ are the ones trying to convince themselves that they'll be outa here before the great tribulation. If you're not ready to die for our faith in Jesus Christ then you might as well renounce your faith for Jesus said He will still spit out anyone who is neither hot nor cold. (lukewarm)
- I Am One Of The Great Multitude Of Gentiles Who Won't Die. But Come Out Of The Great Tribulation Alive To Marry The Lamb. Before God's Throne In White Robes With Palms In Hand. - Rev.7:9 This Is The Rapture Wedding. There Is No Resurrection With The Rapture Wedding. - Matt.25
How many Raptures are there for the last days? If you say one then you are correct. But if you say one then you must be post trib? Why? Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. When is the Son of man(Jesus) revealed? Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. That’s right at the very end of tribulation. Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: Now let go back to Luke 17. So we see that Jesus is revealed after tribulation. Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. Luk 17:31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. Now, what going to happen? Luk 17:34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Luk 17:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Luk 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. That’s right the rapture! Right when Jesus said He would gather his elect: Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Oh just what I need to see the whole lot on TBN. I do like Baxter, but the rest new age lovers , and those who play with spirits and fall drunken slain. Id rather never see another one of them.
There are a lot of big miss understandings from pretribbers. One big misunderstanding is what the “rapture” is. The misunderstanding is because they use the word “rapture”, it keeps them from seeing what it is. In the Bible we see this event called “the gathering together” and it will happen suddenly. When Jesus returns,(His Parousia) (you should study that word) all believers are suddenly snatched away and gathered together to meet Jesus in the air as he descends on a cloud from heaven with 144,000 saints. We are gathered together to welcome the King (the Parousia) just like the disciples did when Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a donkey. That was his first Parousia. It was a picture of his second coming on a white horse and our gathering together to Him.
Keep telling yourself that! Philippians 2:9-11 New King James Version (NKJV) 9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
No..I didn't get that at all. He agreed with Irvin anyways, he jsut didn't want to hurt any ones feelings and was careful how he said it..didn't you hear that? All those men are greatly used of God..the time of the rapture isn't a salvation issue anyways..post or pre, either way the Lord's coming and has zero to do with what we need to do to be saved...right? Acts 2:38 is salvation as Jesus told us to do in John 3:3-5..Amen?
One thing Tim LaHaye is in error with is his idea that the Blessed Hope somehow equates to never seeing death. The Blessed Hope is being resurrected and being forever with the Lord. this happens to those who are alive and remain as well as those who already seen death. I believe for the most parts its Christians in American who have never truly been persecuted like other parts of the world who just can't seem to fathom the idea of persecution or tribulation
Who starts the Wrath? Rev 6:15-17, who started the crucifixion, Jesus, Jesus starts both, John 13:27 there is nothing out of His control. God does Not beat His bride, He rescues His bride.
What we need to remember that all the awfull things that are happening to us in the present is because in the beginning our founding fathers took this land we are living on by force . We will be required to give it back one day and go home . I believe that we will all live in the middle east when the 1000 year reign begins . And the indiginous beleivers will remain here . Back to normal so to speak .
That verse (To me) refers to the last hour of God's wrath that doesn't happen until after the rapture at the last trumpet..prior to that is satan and man's wrath as it says.Read Rev.11, then on to Rev.12 where when "It is done"..God destroys those who destroyed the planet. We have to put all the scriptures into a study, not take one by itself to get a full meaning of it....
LaHaye seems like a nice man and I’m sure he’s a better Christian then I will ever be, but Irvin wiped the floor with him here. I honestly kind of felt bad for LaHaye, he seemed completely out of his depth debating Baxter
I do see your point...but God did say if they be for us then they aren't agaisnt us and to let them be as they are....God is working on them. Have you seen the last video of Irvin with these same men?...They've came a long way, they are seeing the truth and God does want Irvin's truth to be heard via their media since we are in the last days God will use it for good. Irvin is strong enough to handle them...and I've noticed major conviction on the trinity men haven't you? Especially Joyner....
U know what i tried to understand why bro Tim dont want to accept that the great tribulation is not the wrath of God but the wrath of satan is cause he has to tell everybody that the left behind books and dvds is faulse.Bro Tim I bought those dvds and Bro Baxter is rite accept it and apololise and move on cause the truth shall set u free
The Jewish Remnant In The Kingdom Age God has purposed the trib to bring Israel to her senses, that she would accept their true Messiah. But also to weed out the wicked from the good. At the end of tribulation: Zep 1:12 And it shall come to pass at that time, that I will search Jerusalem with candles, and punish the men that are settled on their lees: that say in their heart, The LORD will not do good, neither will he do evil. Eze 9:4 And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof. These are the 144000 in Eze 9:4. Eze 9:5 And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: Eze 9:6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house. Eze 9:7 And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city. Now we see only the ones saved are the righteous Jews, the remnant(144k). So were does this remnant end up, knowing they are the first fruits? Where do you think God's going to get his promised people from, to inherit the land of Canaan. If just this 144k are all that's left and they are raptured then that leaves 0 to inherit the land in the millennium. For surely the scripture speaks of them living, bearing children and dying of old age in many places. This remnant is not raptured but are the first fruits of that kingdom,12k to the tribe, to divide the land of Canaan, for their inheritance.
loveprodigy Thank you, but it doesn't matter what I say, you need to look for yourself. The Kingdom age story is in Ezekiel chapters 40-48 and Just after the Battle of the Lords conquest in Ezekiel 38 & 39. Great reading by the way. One should never forget Zechariah 14 when reading Ezekiel 38 & 39, they go hand in hand, along with Rev Chapter 19.
loveprodigy First you must understand and follow the switching of people here in Rev. Rev 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. These singing in heaven are the raptured saints after tribulation. Then he goes to tell that only the 144K are allowed to hear and sing the song. Then he goes into detail why they are allowed to hear and sing the song. Being Redeemed means saved from the earth as most were killed in tribulation and then in God's wrath. Only they are protected with God's seal, Rev 7:3, before God's wrath is to hurt the earth. Evidence is in Rev 9:4.
loveprodigy Okay let's approach at another angle. If God destroyed the Jew's as Zechariah says He will, Zech 13:8-9. Or if the Jewish remnant get raptured , and they change their bodies they can not produce children. So that leaves no one to inherit the land , and bare the generations to come. These are not in heaven in Rev 14 that are sealed Rev 9: 4 proves that. They went through God's wrath, which is the 7 trumpets of hurting the earth, Rev 7:3. That is their redemption they are saved from. So they have to pass through God's wrath to be able to inherit the land, and replenish it. There is no one else. That is why they are called the first fruits. They are the first to get the kingdom started. They are not the first fruits Paul spoke of , but they are the first fruit of the kingdom. That is what Rev 14:4 called them. This is at the time of the rapture, by the way, when they are first sealed, even though the vision goes back in time after this showing the rapture in verse Rev 14:16. Evidence is of such in Rev 7:14 just after the remnant are sealed, Rev 7:4.
Pope Francis is of Italian decent. You can can google this up and you'll get more info He's one of the first generation of Italian parents born in Argentina
I'm not pre-trib, mid-trid, or post-trib.... I'm pan-trib! It'll all pan out for those who love Jesus. Cling to Jesus and not your doctrines. I love the humility displayed by Rick Joyner.
I HAVE A QUESTION FOR ANY OF THESE MEN & APPRECIATE THEIR RESPONSE: Luke 21:36 was referred to at several points. In this concluding part of the Olivette Discourse Jesus said that all the events He had just listed were "about to take place" within the lifetime of the 12 disciples. That includes the Great Tribulation mentioned in Luke 21:22,23. John told his 1st readers (the 7 churches) the same thing -- these are events that "must shortly come to pass...for the time is near." The 7 churches would naturally take the word "near" to mean something a few years in the future at most, not 2,000+ years in the future. It seems to me obvious that the referent is the destruction of the temple in 70 A.D., which was still standing when Revelation was written (Rev 11:1) and was the subject of the disciples original question (Lk 21:6). So my question is, given these many definite time indicators pointing to the 1st Century, how can you possibly push these events into our future in the 21st Century? It seems to me that you have to depart from a literal interpretation of the Bible in order to do this? Thank you in advance for your response.
Rev. 11!1 first....You did not cite the whole of the passage, I suspect because it muddies the waters with respect to your assessment that the temple in vs 1 was the same temple as Herod's temple. It was not. Vs. 1 is about the same temple mentioned in Ezekiel, and this account parallels that prophecy, though somewhat abbreviated. The real tip off that this is not about Herod's temple is the next few verses in Rev. 11. That temple is NOT destroyed. The outer court, which is not measured, is trampled for 42 months, during which time the two witnesses prophesy for the same amount of time, expressed in days. This calculation of months, or days is spoken of in several other places (Rev 12:6, 13:5) in other things happening at this time as well. As to Luke 21....You have got to stop just reading one or two verses out of a context that spans many more verses meant to contribute to the whole. This passage begins in vx 10, and continues til vs 28, and actually is meant to be taken with the parable of the fig tree in the next chapter......remember, the chapter and verse break up of scripture wan NOT done by the authors...It was later done to help memorize, or locate passages. In this case, please note that it isn't to verse 28 that Jesus says it is time to look up, for our redemption draws close. Also, see 2Thes 2:1-12, and don't forget to think about the implications of Verse 3, and then notice the state of the saints in Revelation 19:17 - 20:7, paying special attention to the fact in last part of vs5 that these people had not taken the mark, or number of the beast, which I remind you did not take place at all untill after the revealing of the AntiChrist in 2 Thes., and they were raised in the FIRST resurrection. This resurrection is also described in 1 Thes.4:13-17...just saying
I feel so very blessed to have found Irvin Baxter and his ministry. I was first taught the left behind series and I felt that it was lacking in scriptural truth.
Lol Tim lahaye has more questions than answers!!! Irvin Baxter just had to give all them a Bible study! Wow....
Irvin Baxter was amazing ..When asked a question ...he quoted Scripture ...How could they not see it....The man was in the Spirit ....HE'S ABSOLUTELY RIGHT . ...On ALL points
oke then since when are beasts nations??
All due respect, the church is more harmed by teaching they will not be here. And then they are. That would devastate people in my opinion.
Great discussion!
We didn't arrange the interview or know who was going to be there. The best we know to do at Endtime is to preach the message God has given us. Our desire isn't to debate or highlight mistakes made, but rather provide scripture for questions, and help the Word to be used as light for their path. An interview on the largest TV network in the world is a great opportunity to plant the seed and eventually fulfill our mission to preach the Gospel of the Kingdom to every person on earth...
You're wright, thanks and be blessed.
Irvin is very well read! I agree with him on alot! What better place for these me of God to go on TBN to get the word out.
Irving baxter realy set the record straight with pointing out 2Thesalonians 2:1-4. Post tribber for christ
Irvin had all the scriptures, the others didn't site any scriptures, just what they thought they meant--not stating what they say.
Thank you Irvin for your intense study of God's word for the endtimes, I love hearing these videos they are so uplifting and trib or not we do have a great hope through all the bad times, love it...God Bless!
Baxter wins the argument with Rev 20 comment on the first resurrection
i would love to write Bro Baxters, words down in a notebook to study his views word for word, to see everything he says, and truly study it out, because there is so much knowledge in there i can't even keep up, he just knows so much, he has studied so well that he's blowing our minds!!!
Thanks to Bro. Baxter for his command of the scripture. It is an absolute apparent evidence of the devotion to study he has committed himself to. You have inspired me to dust off my bible, and spend more time in the word. If Christians would study the word, rather than regurgitate what they hear once a week on Sunday morning, there would be less division in Christ's body.
Great job Irvin Baxter. We will always miss you. Can’t wait to meet you in heaven.
Irvin Baxter has what I believe to be true.
Irvin Baxter is the most knowledgeable. He is well read.
The important thing is what scripture says, brother Irvin Baxter is quoting a lot of scripture and is making a lot of sense. Gods Word will bring wisdom not confusion.
Irvin...pretty smart dude! Obviously studies the scripture and rightly divides the word!
Its contrary to the natural man. But to the spirit man it makes sense.
The church will go thru these times.
He will bless the faithful, but the church will be here just as Irvin mentioned.
Pastor Baxter compares all his says to scripture. More than any on stage.
I love pastor Baxter I miss him so much I wish you were still here with us but I know he's rejoicing in the Kingdom
To teach the truth to all who'll listen..isn't that what preachers do? How will they hear if no one teaches? I'm positive God is behind this and blessing Irvin's message of truth. God help us all to pray for and be behind our ministers as well..in Jesus name.
its good to listen to the different views, but the most important thing in my mind is to just be ready....keep serving the Lord and sharing the gospel and watching the signs of his return......everything else will take care of itself :)
What a good moment! Generals of Almighty God, be blessed to share what you've given by the Lord Jesus with love.
Some of you have gone to be with the Lord. Hallelujah! Maranatha, Jesus is coming soon!
Tim LaHay is trying to create doubt in Ivin
s reasoning. I agree with Irivin Baxter.
Irvin Baxter was right in 2012 and he is right now, pre-trib sells books and movies but is error according to scripture.
mountaintruth1,
Right on mountaintruth1
Pre trib makes modern Christians feel good. A lot like the prosperity gospel being taught by many Televangelists makes people feel good.Unfortunately I believe a lot of modern Christians will have their entire worldview shattered when they find out the pre trib rapture is not true
no pain, no gain, no suffering, no crown, no tribulation, no glory. look for the rapture, be prepared for the tribulation
I am in agreement with Tim LaHaye Pre-Tribulation view, per Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee FROM the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth
Yes, and we already have tribulation; Jesus said, "In this world, ye shall have tribulation, but be of good cheer, for I have overcome the world". He clearly told them that they, and we, would have tribulation. But those people He was talking to, did not go through the "time of Great Tribulation" that Jesus said was unlike any time before, or ever again. which Jesus said. It isn't a matter of not going through tribulation, but only of being spared that special time of "great tribulation" that is unlike any other time. We in America think that in our relative prosperity, and our ungodly love of prosperity, we do not have tribulation, now, but in other countries, they are in very bad tribulation, so the church is going through serious tribulation now, and it is supposed to be as if it was happening to us, since it is happening to our brothers and sisters, the body of Christ. So tribulation is now and always, yet not one of the people Jesus was talking to, all the way to us in our day, have been through the time Jesus spoke of as the time of great tribulation, unlike any other before or since. This is in Matthew 24:21, but all the way back, in Matthew 24:9, He says that we will be persecuted and some of us would be killed. That's pretty serious tribulation, but it still isn't that time like no other, ever.
Matthew 24:21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
I really do not understand everything about this; I know I am pre-wrath, but I take the position of pre-trib, and constantly have to fight the accusation that pre-trib is a set up for apostasy, because of the supposed assumptions about the prosperity of believers, which, which when it proves not to be true, people will lose their faith. But again, the pre-trib position is not of no tribulation at all, because Jesus taught otherwise. It is prosperity gospel, prosperity doctrines and just the love of prosperity and sense of entitlement to it that causes people to have false expectations that they may blame God when they do not come true. Just that one time of great tribulation, we will not go through. I am not sure enough of the whole issue, so I'm pre-wrath, and provisionally pre-trib. I just don't understand well enough to put all my eggs in the pre-trib basket, although I generally go with it. I am sure of pre-wrath, though. That, at least, is promised, and I think we know what will happen that makes these elements work together, we will know when we see them happen.
Just a little truth for the pastors here . I love you guy's because you are preaching the word . I love all who preach the word . I preach the word . Not to the audiences that you have but I still get it out there . I know you have good hearts . All of you . I love the U . S . A . You are my southern neighbor . I ' ve been there and see how you live . We definetly have similarities but are very different . It is all good . (More to come in next post )
Awesome interview! I grew up in Tim LaHaye's church and he loves Jesus SO much. This I know is true yet he is a man too. I have been asking the Spirit to show me the truth on this; Evangelist Anita Fuentes has a letter from Corrie Ten Boom that really makes you think...so I do believe now in post yet we will overcome DURING the tribulation. Just my thoughts..
Irvin is using scripture to backup everything he says. He is not going by emotion and saying that Christians should be taken out just because we are the bride of Christ. The Apostles are also included in the bride of Christ but they went though tribulation.
Robyn Deshotel
There it is. You have said it. 👍 Right on.
HA! Irvin Baxter is schooling them all!
Thank the lord that Irvin told them the truth !
Post Tribulation of Rapture is correct. I feel Irivin is right.
He is
Irvin is saying at the 3 1/2 year mark, when the rapture takes place. 🙂
Those who teach about the pre-tribulation is planning to cause the church to fall away by discouraging them that they have been left out like about the song (american pie) that says God took the last train for the coast. That's what the Bible talks about the falling away of many believers.
I totally agree with pastor baxter about the rapture after the great tribulation. Revelation 7:13 Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes-who are they, and where did they come from?”
14 I answered, “Sir, you know.”
And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Thats not evidence of the rapture after the great tribulation. That could be referring to those who were killed during the tribulation which does not contradict a catching away occurring before the tribulation. There would be those left behind that will turn to Christ and be killed for it and then we'd have this new remnant of folks in heaven at the altar that will come as a shock to the angels who figured all the saved were already taken.
Blessings from Lince, Peru - South America - Revelation 11: 3 or Apocalipsis 11:3 -THE BIBLE.
The apostles and the son of God had gone through great tribulation in their mission, Why not the Christian wouldn't ?
The apostles went through satan's wrath, not God's wrath. Jesus took God's wrath so Christians don't have to. God promised to spare his people from the hour of his wrath. That is the tribulation. God has done the same in times past. He spared Lot. He spared Noah. God has saved his people during his own wrath. Jesus warned we would have tribulation in the world (Satan's wrath), but the word used for that tribulation is different than the word used for tribulation in Revelation.
@@AM-ko2my gods wrath will not be upon his people during the great tribulation.
@@andyhammer9218 I think you misunderstood my post.
Mark 13:11-13 "Now brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. And you will be hated by all for My name's sake. But he who endures to the end shall be saved."
I am in agreement with Tim LaHaye, keep watchin' saints!!!!!
Gr8eskape : Are you still in agreement 4 years later?
Matthew 5:10-12 "Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, For theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven...."
We have to be around people and be a light...this is the will of God to reach truth, we sure can't do it sitting in a closet. He's doing nothing wrong. He is not saying they are right, in fact he is saying they are not right and many are starting to see truth from this...obviously the founder of this station is very impressed by God's work via Irvin. I think people will come to truth and be saved..lets all pray they do...thats the plan for doing it.Amen
Who do you listen to, a man of faith in his beliefs, or man who quotes scripture everytime he talks to back up his faith.
As usual, Brother Baxter, you did a great job explaining the post-trib position, which I was taught as a boy, by my Grandmother. I was impressed with your Scripture Memory. There are two comments that have labelled the other people "false teachers." Well, does that mean that you were a false teacher when you were pre-trib? Is it possible to be a true Man of God, and yet, disagree on issues, such as the Trinity, and pre-trib/post-trib? Which of us have perfect understanding?
Hes a genius
"Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant BY WHICH HE WAS SANCTIFIED a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?" (Heb. 10:29)
+Paul Bortolazzo Paul you are so seriously confused about what the word of God is telling you. If you obey John 3:3-5 like Jesus commanded you to do as it is a must, and as they all did that believed on him in Acts...then maybe you might see and understand..as Jesus said you couldn't/wouldn't if you didn't obey his commandments...
And that is the answer/ reason for so many different teachings and confusion and deceptions...people do not obey...they totally make excuses not to.
Remember Noah was not saved by faith...he was saved through obedience, he listened to God and he obeyed him
+Paul Bortolazzo
Both Trinity Broadcasting Network and Daystar promote teachers bringing destructive heresies denying the Lord. (2 Pet. 2:1) A regular guest on these networks is a popular post tribulation prophecy teacher, Irwin Baxter! This Oneness preacher (Apostolic or Jesus only) believes to be saved you must be baptized only in the name of Jesus (false), you must speak in tongues (false), and you must believe in the blasphemy the Son is somehow the Father (false)! No one embracing such heresies is abiding in the doctrine of Christ; nor are they saved! (2 John 1:9) The danger of those preaching on Christian TV is the lack of accountability. Viewers are constantly scolded not to judge God's anointed. They glibly say David refused to stretch his hand out against the anointed of God. The truth is David refused to physically harm Saul. The context was physical; not spiritual. (1 Sam. 24:1-6)
Paul Bortolazzo Because that's what the Bible says...there is one name by which we all are and must be saved and that name is Jesus. John 3:3-5....3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Acts 2:38..(And so they did obey and Peter taught this as did all in the entire book of Acts)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts is the book of salvation coming after the Bio's of Jesus that built our faith in him..and after Acts/salvation is the books to the saved people/churches....simple
Everyone was baptized in Jesus name, all spoke in tongues as the evidence of receiving the Holy Ghost, the Spirit birth as we're told we must have the water and the Spirit by Jesus in John 3:3-5. There is no other name under heaven by which we must be saved...period.
Rick Joyner was the only reason why i watched this and he was the only one making sense to me. But i understand why he was almost silent for the whole first hour.
i kind of believe he was thinking "what the heck am i doing here".
Tim La Haye said the rapture is the blessed hope. Does he know his bible? My bible says the Blessed Hope is the return of our Lord Jesus Christ. The pre-tribers are looking for the rapture instead of the return of Christ. The rapture is the gathering of the saints when Our Lord returns. Scripture says, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our Great God and Savior Jesus Christ. Titus 2:13
La Haye......NO! And Amen pkr52180
meant to say Amen about the Blessed Hope :return of Christ" and NO to Tim La Haye
The Rapture is Pre Wrath (Gods Wrath) The same day as the Blessed Hope. The 2'nd coming of Jesus Christ
pkr52180 sir one thing is the coming of the Lord and another thing if the taking away of yhe bide of Christ ok dont mix things up
So I really think that we should prepare for some pretty grusome times in the near future . Times that will make this look like a cake walk .
Here is the TRUTH.
If someone doesn't have true salvation according to Acts 2:38, then they don't have God's spirit living inside them. We can all agree that God's Spirit, which is the Holy Ghost, is Truth, and Jesus declared and told us in the Bible that His Spirit would tell us and remind us, all the things that Jesus had taught us.
So if someone doesn't have the gift of God's spirit living inside them with evidence of speaking in tongues, then they are not in complete Truth, and they are comfortable with being complacent so then they are not seeking God for Truth, they just believe a lie.
This Bro. Baxter (the guy on the right from the viewers view) has it right though. He is correct.
You absolutely HAVE TO HAVE the Holy Spirit or you do not belong to Christ! Romans Chapter 8 and verse 9.....I pray for Tim Lahaye....He needs Jesus, he needs truth...Lord let him find you and your truth God!
@@davidmichaelheavenlymusic6633
Amen! In JESUS NAME
The book of The Acts of the Apostles is pure history of what happened when the Holy Ghost filled a believer.... they spoke in the Heavenly language. It's obvious that if you do not speak in that Heavenly language that you are not filled with the Holy Spirit! There is no other way to rightly divide that word and you are not living your life according to God's word. That is a very sobering thought and if I did not have the Holy Spirit with that evidence....I would be doing everything I can to get it. You would be an utter fool to ignore the truth!
@@davidmichaelheavenlymusic6633
Yes, correct!
I say the same thing.
Stay strong bro!
@@ilovenoodles7483 Indeed, likewise! Let's keep preaching the Good News.... Jesus is the answer!
Excellent Discussion!
Proverbs 10:30 The righteous shall NEVER BE REMOVED, but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth. Praise God! I do not want to be removed, I want to reign here on earth with my Lord Jesus for a thousand yrs. Lord God, give me the wisdom and strength to stand for You when I'm taken before the antichrist! I love You my Lord :)
There is no pre-trib rapture...We will be here for the whole thing untill the 7th trump..
👉4:10, 27:20, 33:00, 41:00 & 44:40 (one sentence), 👉1:12:30, 1:29:00 Rick
They dont like Perry they like Irvin its pretty obvious they do.
Gods using Irvin for his truth,,,,
Tim Lahaye and Paul Crouch have passed away. Rick Joyner is very humble. Irvin has Endtimes Ministries. They are both worth listening to and would definitely recommend them.
I'm sure they now wish they can tell people they were wrong on pretrib
Seven years start when they lay the Cornerstone of the Temple
Awesome debate.
Tim LaHaye has made a great deal of money from spreading false doctrine and yet he says " I wont be spreading any false doctrine from this book" well sir, you have done just exactly that.
and all you who comment about lather....he wrote the books to give people hope not to make money.he could have never dreamed how many copies he would sell. only God had him do this at just the right time. it's the people who bought the books that made them best sellers.
Sir the Holy Spirit clearly has spoken to us that the next MAJOT Event IS. UNITY OF THE BODY OF CHRIST
The whole earth plunges into darkness because the light i s taken out. The light that is the church is not snuffed out by darkness. Darkness is merely the absence of light. Common sense.
Perry didnt win that debate at all, lol is that a joke? Seriously. He couldnt even be understood, Irvin uses the word not some made up philosophy of man
Said that there will be believers that will be in danger of taking the mark since they believe in a Pretribulation rapture
What the first gentleman in the beginning of the show up until 2:30 marker said, so now it is now 2017, 5-6 yrs. since this show aired and look where we are now with Islam, Russia, and Israel.
So the takeaway is post-trib is the TRUTH. We going through it now, only the final seven years has not started just yet, but if the UN annouces a sharing agreement of the temple mount, towards Sept. 22 or 23 2017 then the final seven years will start at that point. If not then one thing is certain when ever the Temple mount comes under a sharing agreement with Palestine and the Israelites then that's the start of the final 7 years.
Mr Baxter is THE expert on prophecy.
It says to beware of false prophets, Irvin isn't agreeing with them on salvation issues,etc. Big difference. He's there to teach them truth and revelations God has given him. I think people get way to bent outta shape over things like your doing...if it's meant for good then God is for it and thats what we should be as well...my goodness
I don't agree with Baxter on everything but I think he did speak more accurately in my opinion then the late Tim LaHaye. This idea of Rev 4 revealing a picture of the rapture is way too much of a stretch and never have liked such a treatment of the passage as such. Secondly the idea that the church will be raptured out before tribulation persecution because Jesus would not want to see his bride beat up.....(as Tim) puts forth....well what about Christians today in 2017 who YES are persecuted and killed. How come they get treated is such a different way if it's a non possibility for good saints? God never promised that there would never be martyrs for the faith. God's wrath doesn't start until Rev 6 : 17 (end of the chapter) and it even states for the great day of his wrath IS COME. Is Come means it's about to start . The seal No 5 in Rev 6 is persecution tribulation but it's not a judgment of God but rather actions of the anti-Christ.
What was the white horse representing?
I'm an amillennialist myself, and I believe that's what the Bible supports, but I don't see end times theology as a salvific issue.
i agree with irvin baxter
Well brother, I we will soon find out who is right.
hey dont knock pastor baxter he came their to bring them the truth Jesus is giving them a chance to realy understand the scriptures pastor baxter backed everything up with scripture he quited alot more scripture than all the others combined to get them to understand what the bible says is vital to salvation when the rapture happens not realy the most important thing is our relationship to our lord and saviour Jesus and our relationship to our fellow man love thy neighbor as thy self
2 CHRONICLES 7:14 - USA
For Dr. Tim LaHaye please read Luke 21, this might change your opinion about pre-trib. I guess people who are not ready to die for their faith in Jesus Christ are the ones trying to convince themselves that they'll be outa here before the great tribulation. If you're not ready to die for our faith in Jesus Christ then you might as well renounce your faith for Jesus said He will still spit out anyone who is neither hot nor cold. (lukewarm)
- I Am One Of The Great Multitude Of Gentiles Who Won't Die.
But Come Out Of The Great Tribulation Alive To Marry The Lamb.
Before God's Throne In White Robes With Palms In Hand. - Rev.7:9
This Is The Rapture Wedding.
There Is No Resurrection With The Rapture Wedding. - Matt.25
That’s ok! We can all agree to disagree. I’m going on the first rapture call, see you all after the tribulation!! Maranatha!
The most important thing is: Be Ready!!!!
MI
So what if your wrong?
How many Raptures are there for the last days? If you say one then you are correct. But if you say one then you must be post trib? Why?
Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
When is the Son of man(Jesus) revealed?
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
That’s right at the very end of tribulation.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Now let go back to Luke 17. So we see that Jesus is revealed after tribulation.
Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
Luk 17:31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
Now, what going to happen?
Luk 17:34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
Luk 17:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
That’s right the rapture! Right when Jesus said He would gather his elect:
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
"Why" is because that is exactly what Scripture says. Any other rendering is the doctrine of men.
Oh just what I need to see the whole lot on TBN. I do like Baxter, but the rest new age lovers , and those who play with spirits and fall drunken slain. Id rather never see another one of them.
Only THE CHURCH OF PHILADELPHIA ONLY ALL OTHERS WILL GO THROUGH IT...
There are a lot of big miss understandings from pretribbers. One big misunderstanding is what the “rapture” is.
The misunderstanding is because they use the word “rapture”, it keeps them from seeing what it is. In the Bible we see this event called “the gathering together” and it will happen suddenly.
When Jesus returns,(His Parousia) (you should study that word) all believers are suddenly snatched away and gathered together to meet Jesus in the air as he descends on a cloud from heaven with 144,000 saints.
We are gathered together to welcome the King (the Parousia) just like the disciples did when Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a donkey.
That was his first Parousia.
It was a picture of his second coming on a white horse and our gathering together to Him.
The church is the saints my friend! Take away the saints and you have no church!
Keep telling yourself that!
Philippians 2:9-11
New King James Version (NKJV)
9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Sorry for my seemingly slurred speech , it's 3 am lol
my lower posts were first, the next r on top of them
No..I didn't get that at all. He agreed with Irvin anyways, he jsut didn't want to hurt any ones feelings and was careful how he said it..didn't you hear that? All those men are greatly used of God..the time of the rapture isn't a salvation issue anyways..post or pre, either way the Lord's coming and has zero to do with what we need to do to be saved...right? Acts 2:38 is salvation as Jesus told us to do in John 3:3-5..Amen?
Not true!
Revelation 3:10 is one of the major Scriptures. Also Jeremiah 30:7 & Daniel 12:1 which BOTH coincide with Matthew 24, Mark 13, & Luke 21.
I agree with u 100% tell brother Tim that his left behind movies and book is false
One thing Tim LaHaye is in error with is his idea that the Blessed Hope somehow equates to never seeing death. The Blessed Hope is being resurrected and being forever with the Lord. this happens to those who are alive and remain as well as those who already seen death. I believe for the most parts its Christians in American who have never truly been persecuted like other parts of the world who just can't seem to fathom the idea of persecution or tribulation
Who starts the Wrath? Rev 6:15-17, who started the crucifixion, Jesus, Jesus starts both, John 13:27 there is nothing out of His control. God does Not beat His bride, He rescues His bride.
Tim LaHaye was wrong!
Remember the Bible says the saints will do exploits, look up that word, it means taking over the spoils.....
What we need to remember that all the awfull things that are happening to us in the present is because in the beginning our founding fathers took this land we are living on by force . We will be required to give it back one day and go home . I believe that we will all live in the middle east when the 1000 year reign begins . And the indiginous beleivers will remain here . Back to normal so to speak .
Go irvin they can not argue with the truth.
That verse (To me) refers to the last hour of God's wrath that doesn't happen until after the rapture at the last trumpet..prior to that is satan and man's wrath as it says.Read Rev.11, then on to Rev.12 where when "It is done"..God destroys those who destroyed the planet. We have to put all the scriptures into a study, not take one by itself to get a full meaning of it....
LaHaye seems like a nice man and I’m sure he’s a better Christian then I will ever be, but Irvin wiped the floor with him here. I honestly kind of felt bad for LaHaye, he seemed completely out of his depth debating Baxter
I do see your point...but God did say if they be for us then they aren't agaisnt us and to let them be as they are....God is working on them.
Have you seen the last video of Irvin with these same men?...They've came a long way, they are seeing the truth and God does want Irvin's truth to be heard via their media since we are in the last days God will use it for good.
Irvin is strong enough to handle them...and I've noticed major conviction on the trinity men haven't you? Especially Joyner....
U know what i tried to understand why bro Tim dont want to accept that the great tribulation is not the wrath of God but the wrath of satan is cause he has to tell everybody that the left behind books and dvds is faulse.Bro Tim I bought those dvds and Bro Baxter is rite accept it and apololise and move on cause the truth shall set u free
I know,and its a shame when christians are told the truth,and know it,yet they choose to hold on to their traditions.
Both are wrong yet Baxter is closer to the truth. Look up Pre-Wrath and you will see there is a problem with both.
The Jewish Remnant In The Kingdom Age
God has purposed the trib to bring Israel to her senses, that she would accept their true Messiah. But also to weed out the wicked from the good. At the end of tribulation:
Zep 1:12 And it shall come to pass at that time, that I will search Jerusalem with candles, and punish the men that are settled on their lees: that say in their heart, The LORD will not do good, neither will he do evil.
Eze 9:4 And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.
These are the 144000 in Eze 9:4.
Eze 9:5 And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:
Eze 9:6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.
Eze 9:7 And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city.
Now we see only the ones saved are the righteous Jews, the remnant(144k). So were does this remnant end up, knowing they are the first fruits? Where do you think God's going to get his promised people from, to inherit the land of Canaan. If just this 144k are all that's left and they are raptured then that leaves 0 to inherit the land in the millennium. For surely the scripture speaks of them living, bearing children and dying of old age in many places. This remnant is not raptured but are the first fruits of that kingdom,12k to the tribe, to divide the land of Canaan, for their inheritance.
loveprodigy That is what the Bible says, I believe it.
loveprodigy Thank you, but it doesn't matter what I say, you need to look for yourself. The Kingdom age story is in Ezekiel chapters 40-48 and Just after the Battle of the Lords conquest in Ezekiel 38 & 39. Great reading by the way. One should never forget Zechariah 14 when reading Ezekiel 38 & 39, they go hand in hand, along with Rev Chapter 19.
loveprodigy First you must understand and follow the switching of people here in Rev.
Rev 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
These singing in heaven are the raptured saints after tribulation. Then he goes to tell that only the 144K are allowed to hear and sing the song. Then he goes into detail why they are allowed to hear and sing the song. Being Redeemed means saved from the earth as most were killed in tribulation and then in God's wrath. Only they are protected with God's seal, Rev 7:3, before God's wrath is to hurt the earth. Evidence is in Rev 9:4.
loveprodigy Also, read read Zechariah 13 as it tells of the Jews destruction and the 1/3 left to come through the fire, which is the remnant( 144K).
loveprodigy Okay let's approach at another angle. If God destroyed the Jew's as Zechariah says He will, Zech 13:8-9. Or if the Jewish remnant get raptured , and they change their bodies they can not produce children. So that leaves no one to inherit the land , and bare the generations to come. These are not in heaven in Rev 14 that are sealed Rev 9: 4 proves that. They went through God's wrath, which is the 7 trumpets of hurting the earth, Rev 7:3. That is their redemption they are saved from. So they have to pass through God's wrath to be able to inherit the land, and replenish it. There is no one else. That is why they are called the first fruits. They are the first to get the kingdom started. They are not the first fruits Paul spoke of , but they are the first fruit of the kingdom. That is what Rev 14:4 called them. This is at the time of the rapture, by the way, when they are first sealed, even though the vision goes back in time after this showing the rapture in verse Rev 14:16. Evidence is of such in Rev 7:14 just after the remnant are sealed, Rev 7:4.
Pope Francis is of Italian decent. You can can google this up and you'll get more info
He's one of the first generation of Italian parents born in Argentina
I'm not pre-trib, mid-trid, or post-trib.... I'm pan-trib! It'll all pan out for those who love Jesus. Cling to Jesus and not your doctrines. I love the humility displayed by Rick Joyner.
I HAVE A QUESTION FOR ANY OF THESE MEN & APPRECIATE THEIR RESPONSE: Luke 21:36 was referred to at several points. In this concluding part of the Olivette Discourse Jesus said that all the events He had just listed were "about to take place" within the lifetime of the 12 disciples. That includes the Great Tribulation mentioned in Luke 21:22,23. John told his 1st readers (the 7 churches) the same thing -- these are events that "must shortly come to pass...for the time is near." The 7 churches would naturally take the word "near" to mean something a few years in the future at most, not 2,000+ years in the future. It seems to me obvious that the referent is the destruction of the temple in 70 A.D., which was still standing when Revelation was written (Rev 11:1) and was the subject of the disciples original question (Lk 21:6).
So my question is, given these many definite time indicators pointing to the 1st Century, how can you possibly push these events into our future in the 21st Century? It seems to me that you have to depart from a literal interpretation of the Bible in order to do this? Thank you in advance for your response.
Rev. 11!1 first....You did not cite the whole of the passage, I suspect because it muddies the waters with respect to your assessment that the temple in vs 1 was the same temple as Herod's temple. It was not. Vs. 1 is about the same temple mentioned in Ezekiel, and this account parallels that prophecy, though somewhat abbreviated. The real tip off that this is not about Herod's temple is the next few verses in Rev. 11. That temple is NOT destroyed. The outer court, which is not measured, is trampled for 42 months, during which time the two witnesses prophesy for the same amount of time, expressed in days. This calculation of months, or days is spoken of in several other places (Rev 12:6, 13:5) in other things happening at this time as well. As to Luke 21....You have got to stop just reading one or two verses out of a context that spans many more verses meant to contribute to the whole. This passage begins in vx 10, and continues til vs 28, and actually is meant to be taken with the parable of the fig tree in the next chapter......remember, the chapter and verse break up of scripture wan NOT done by the authors...It was later done to help memorize, or locate passages. In this case, please note that it isn't to verse 28 that Jesus says it is time to look up, for our redemption draws close.
Also, see 2Thes 2:1-12, and don't forget to think about the implications of Verse 3, and then notice the state of the saints in Revelation 19:17 - 20:7, paying special attention to the fact in last part of vs5 that these people had not taken the mark, or number of the beast, which I remind you did not take place at all untill after the revealing of the AntiChrist in 2 Thes., and they were raised in the FIRST resurrection. This resurrection is also described in 1 Thes.4:13-17...just saying
+AntiFederalist Because the final three Feasts will be fulfilled during His future 2nd coming.