It seems quite common that later games in a series feature taller characters. Quake had the same development, with Quake 2's player models being substantially taller than Quake 1's. Players being shorter in Quake 1 (but running at the same speed) ultimately makes Quake 1 feel faster, simply because your eyes are closer to the floor.
>being shorter ultimately makes Q1 feel faster >ultimately ignoring the fact that Q1 cl_maxspeed (running speed) is 400 and Q2 cl_forwardspeed (running forward speed) is 200 Haha, yeah, player height is the only factor, amrite
@@KeksimusMaximus Your run speed is 320 qu/s in both games, even if you set your forward speed cvar above 320. The forward speed cvar just allows you to walk slower if you wish :) (it also influences the angle you strafe at, even if set above 320)
@@Calinou >run speed is 320 qu/s in both games Care to provide a source on that info? Because, you see, Q1 and Q2 use different engines with different values. How do you compare those?
Damn I used to play so much 1.6 (and even the first half-life) but didn't about know this. I also noticed that it feels different from csgo but couldn't figure out why. Thank you for the explanation.
I noticed this back in 2007. I noticed it when I played hostage maps (played cs_havana and cs_assault a lot) It was a minor complaint but I don't where to ask, who to ask, where to ask, or really have access to the internet. I thought it's by odd game design and apparently it is
If you haven’t already then maybe try playing csgo in a 4:3 screen format. That made it feel a lot more like 1.6 to me. Lots of pro players play in 4:3 stretched, apparently. That’s also what I use. It really does change the feeling of it.
Great video, this happened to me in 2010 when I was creating several of my maps in Valve hammer, I have always thought that the other map creators never took it into account, there are even very exaggerated and funny cases of maps like de_industry that hallways are gigantic. Greetings from Argentina, I don't speak English, but in order to leave you a good comment I used Google Translate
2 роки тому+28
Probably was a move to create more cover places, since if you lower the eye level, and remember bullets come out of the eyes level, lowering the eyes makes all the boxes that are at 64 units (wich is a very common size) new cover without ducking and without having to change all the existing maps maybe it even was to speed up the game since the players did not need to crouch that much lowering their speed to avoid the enemies bullets. Or maybe it was just for visual consistency probably to match the head of the player model(its never fun to get killed from someone who you dont see because the model is lower than its pov) since the animations make the head duck more than in hl1 where the player models have a straight standing pose, in CSS and CSGO they keept the 64 units but to address the difference from the eyes in the models to the actual eyes of the player they made the player models bigger, so they mostly match and help with real body and hitboxes awareness.
wasnt for visual consistency, as the old beta models were as big as half lifes, i mean leet krew was just reskinned gordon freeman, who is around 72 inches tall, so his eyes being 64 inches off the ground makes sense it was likely put in because the new character models were short and also really hunched over
Great topic, the map scaling always made a huge headache when mappers transition from old CS into source. Kudos to Gooseman still answering a decades old technical question to this day.
It's interesting the player height changed for beta 5 which is the version where valve first became involved in counter strike development. I wonder if that had something to do with the change.
21% Percentages don't work the same way as regular math Removing 17% and then adding it back will give a different result So the title should be "CS:GO is 21% bigger than Counter-Strike" or "Counter-Strike is 17% smaller than CS:GO"
Ufff, yes of course. 50.000 views and you are the first to point that out, most people really suck at math... me included. I stare at the title for a long time when uploading, switching things around, hoping it would sound better that way. One would think i would notice...
I noticed this like years ago, in the map named assault or something, if you dont know, you can enter the ct spawn truck if you break its front window. You need to crouch to get inside. Everything felt alright in fps, but i saw another player do it, and when he was crouching, his head was clipping through the vehicles roof. Like, a lot, the whole upper jaw could be seen peeking out of the truck.
I akways assumed they lowered the camera height to prevent head glitching, having the camera lower means more of your head if visible when peeking over cover
Sort of related, in Left 4 Dead 2 (I didn't check L4D1 but one would think it would be the same) the player camera is changed again to 62 units; player height is 72 units and jumping/crouching height is 56 units.
it would make sense for l4d to have different camera heights, as coach is really tall while zoey is really short thats what tf2 does, scout is always leaning so his camera height is the lowest, while heavy and sniper are not only taller than scout, but also stand tall, having the highest camera heights
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 No actually, they don't have any camera height differences between characters. Coach and Zoey view the world in the same exact perspective as each other.
3:00 probably by design making sure when the player looking straight at the crosshair, it reaches the character's eye implying that the crosshair is the player's eye focus when looking straight
And then there's Team Fortress 2: while in most Source and GoldSrc games 1 hammer unit = 1 inch, in TF2 1hu = 0,75 inches. Meaning if you'd import a HL2/CSS/CSGO map into TF2, everything will feel shrank by 25% because the player is bigger. And then you pick Heavy and everything becomes even smaller - while the player's bounding box is the same across all classes, the eye height is not.
I'd assume it's so that other player's head hitbox isn't level with your POV. Otherwise you could always set your pitch to 0 and have your cross-hair on their head, even if you were at the end of a veeeery long coridoor you would know where their head is (pitch wise at least).
So that's why "de_rats" and it's variants were a thing, it could of had been a joke from the mappers that noticed how the scale of the player model was smaller than other Goldsrc games.
I love to think that someone was playing around with values and when resetting back to 64 they simply placed their hand on one key to the left before typing and didn't pay attention
5:30 that would be the same if you would change resolution proportion to 4:3 in CS 1.6 and CS Source. 16:9 in CS Source give 110 degrees FOV, and 90 degrees for CS 1.6
Hello @ESCalation , Is there some simple article of the scale of CS1,6 / CSCZDS and CSGO? Would you be able to tell if my summarization below is right? CS1,6 map in CSGO • Everything looks smaller because CS1,6 view is in 53 units but in csgo the view is in 64 units CSCZDS map in CSGO • Everything looks the same because in CSCZDS view is in 64 as in CSGO • Only difference is that the CSGO player model will stick out more behind some crates because in csgo the player models are taller • In summary the only differences are in heights. The width dimensions are the same in all games (32x32 units) • Are there any other scale differencies? Thank you.
While the crouching was of course ridiculous, I actually like the idea of reducing the standing height, simply to nerf the speed of crouching. When crouching is used to -accidentally- dodge a bullet, it never feels fair, so I wouldn't mind experimenting with nerfing that possibility.
I bet back in the day they playtested their mod and some of the devs thought it feels better with the lower value and just changed it... Maybe even the guy you asked.. they prolly were baked af back in the days and they simply dont remember but thats just a guess..
Thanks Escalation, answering the questions no one asked but we are still interested in lol. Also what was at 6:51 onwards, is that just csgo with reskinned hud on a source map? Or its part of classic offensive mod?
This may have also contributed to complaints that CS:GO feels "slow" - since the player feels 21% taller, but is moving around 5% slower with weapons in hand. P.S.: My IRL camera height is exactly 64 inches, so that must be the reason why I prefer CS:GO.
you have to crouch in cs 1.6 too, old nuke vents were just tiny you see more of cs 1.6 tiny size in 3kliksphilips video where he makes those maps that warowl played
What happened to Counter-Strike 1.7?! We have the answer here: ua-cam.com/video/TZmTDTAyte4/v-deo.html
If I played an FPS where the crouch made everyone duck or crab walk I'd think it was the best FPS ever
I'd demand a mod to make people quack while crouching.
Survivalcraft2 dynamic crouch mods:I've got you covered
Stalker: anomaly does that
Counter strike : condition zero has that hostages can crouch and even sometimes jump
Red Orchestra 2, maybe?
Fun fact: In CS Beta 7.0 the normal camera height was restored, but it was revert back to the short view in 7.1 for some reason.
Wtf?
It seems quite common that later games in a series feature taller characters. Quake had the same development, with Quake 2's player models being substantially taller than Quake 1's. Players being shorter in Quake 1 (but running at the same speed) ultimately makes Quake 1 feel faster, simply because your eyes are closer to the floor.
>being shorter ultimately makes Q1 feel faster
>ultimately ignoring the fact that Q1 cl_maxspeed (running speed) is 400 and Q2 cl_forwardspeed (running forward speed) is 200
Haha, yeah, player height is the only factor, amrite
@@KeksimusMaximus Your run speed is 320 qu/s in both games, even if you set your forward speed cvar above 320. The forward speed cvar just allows you to walk slower if you wish :) (it also influences the angle you strafe at, even if set above 320)
@@Calinou
>run speed is 320 qu/s in both games
Care to provide a source on that info? Because, you see, Q1 and Q2 use different engines with different values. How do you compare those?
@@KeksimusMaximus >
>
>
>
> 4chan
@@KeksimusMaximus hehe funny meme arrows from le racist forums
Damn, I'm out here in CS1.6 height IRL
omg counter strike in real?
@@aurin_komak I mean yeah that's what they said.
@@ironbonk11 the counter strike is real
@@Nombrenooriginal can we get much taller?
@@SaladSneky so tall
I always wondered why the hostages in CS1.6 were taller than the player models and this explains everything.
Damn I used to play so much 1.6 (and even the first half-life) but didn't about know this. I also noticed that it feels different from csgo but couldn't figure out why. Thank you for the explanation.
You're welcome!
I noticed this back in 2007. I noticed it when I played hostage maps (played cs_havana and cs_assault a lot) It was a minor complaint but I don't where to ask, who to ask, where to ask, or really have access to the internet. I thought it's by odd game design and apparently it is
If you haven’t already then maybe try playing csgo in a 4:3 screen format. That made it feel a lot more like 1.6 to me. Lots of pro players play in 4:3 stretched, apparently. That’s also what I use. It really does change the feeling of it.
Great video, this happened to me in 2010 when I was creating several of my maps in Valve hammer, I have always thought that the other map creators never took it into account, there are even very exaggerated and funny cases of maps like de_industry that hallways are gigantic. Greetings from Argentina, I don't speak English, but in order to leave you a good comment I used Google Translate
Probably was a move to create more cover places, since if you lower the eye level, and remember bullets come out of the eyes level, lowering the eyes makes all the boxes that are at 64 units (wich is a very common size) new cover without ducking and without having to change all the existing maps maybe it even was to speed up the game since the players did not need to crouch that much lowering their speed to avoid the enemies bullets. Or maybe it was just for visual consistency probably to match the head of the player model(its never fun to get killed from someone who you dont see because the model is lower than its pov) since the animations make the head duck more than in hl1 where the player models have a straight standing pose, in CSS and CSGO they keept the 64 units but to address the difference from the eyes in the models to the actual eyes of the player they made the player models bigger, so they mostly match and help with real body and hitboxes awareness.
wasnt for visual consistency, as the old beta models were as big as half lifes, i mean leet krew was just reskinned gordon freeman, who is around 72 inches tall, so his eyes being 64 inches off the ground makes sense
it was likely put in because the new character models were short and also really hunched over
3:23 This is the funniest shit I've seen this year goddamn. I low key want this in 1.6 now lmao
my question about weird sizes in CS is answered 20 years later by UA-cam recommendations
You're welcome! :D
Great topic, the map scaling always made a huge headache when mappers transition from old CS into source. Kudos to Gooseman still answering a decades old technical question to this day.
I love how you always include a little hint at CSCZ's cut content (the very last clip is from your reinterpretation of cs_radio, right?)
Eeyup!
It's interesting the player height changed for beta 5 which is the version where valve first became involved in counter strike development. I wonder if that had something to do with the change.
21%
Percentages don't work the same way as regular math
Removing 17% and then adding it back will give a different result
So the title should be "CS:GO is 21% bigger than Counter-Strike" or "Counter-Strike is 17% smaller than CS:GO"
Ufff, yes of course. 50.000 views and you are the first to point that out, most people really suck at math... me included. I stare at the title for a long time when uploading, switching things around, hoping it would sound better that way. One would think i would notice...
Minh is actually pretty cool online also very humble. I see him popping up in the unreal facebook group.
I noticed this like years ago, in the map named assault or something, if you dont know, you can enter the ct spawn truck if you break its front window. You need to crouch to get inside. Everything felt alright in fps, but i saw another player do it, and when he was crouching, his head was clipping through the vehicles roof. Like, a lot, the whole upper jaw could be seen peeking out of the truck.
I akways assumed they lowered the camera height to prevent head glitching, having the camera lower means more of your head if visible when peeking over cover
I always thought that it was due their "conbat stance", knees slightly bent and everything while the hostates were fully upright.
Edit: combat*
Sort of related, in Left 4 Dead 2 (I didn't check L4D1 but one would think it would be the same) the player camera is changed again to 62 units; player height is 72 units and jumping/crouching height is 56 units.
it would make sense for l4d to have different camera heights, as coach is really tall while zoey is really short
thats what tf2 does, scout is always leaning so his camera height is the lowest, while heavy and sniper are not only taller than scout, but also stand tall, having the highest camera heights
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 No actually, they don't have any camera height differences between characters.
Coach and Zoey view the world in the same exact perspective as each other.
Sounds like a nice way to combat head peeking, lower the view model so you have to peek more in turn revealing more of your head.
Most people prefer the movement and "feel" of 1.6, even if they prefer GO for balance/everything else. Maybe there's something to the shorter camera.
So I was not crazy when I though that when I got to play 1.6 again just to see how it was and D2 looks a lot smaller than I remember
3:00 probably by design making sure when the player looking straight at the crosshair, it reaches the character's eye implying that the crosshair is the player's eye focus when looking straight
is that peter's "ahhhhh" from family guy ? :D 1:02
I always thought it was because in older CS, your character was always hunched.
The Ending Music was one of my favorite, Thankyou man for the thing that i have thinking for a while 👍🙏❤️
Maybe the lowered pov is to make it harder to headglitch
Eye height was probably lowered to combat head glitching
And then there's Team Fortress 2: while in most Source and GoldSrc games 1 hammer unit = 1 inch, in TF2 1hu = 0,75 inches.
Meaning if you'd import a HL2/CSS/CSGO map into TF2, everything will feel shrank by 25% because the player is bigger.
And then you pick Heavy and everything becomes even smaller - while the player's bounding box is the same across all classes, the eye height is not.
It's to avoid headglitching, if it was at their eyes they could shoot over cover that they shouldn't be able to
I'd assume it's so that other player's head hitbox isn't level with your POV. Otherwise you could always set your pitch to 0 and have your cross-hair on their head, even if you were at the end of a veeeery long coridoor you would know where their head is (pitch wise at least).
I like how you used the scuba diver for the hitbox part hihi
hehe yea, little hint :P
i think it's because the people in counter strike are usually hunched forwards and so their height is a little bit shorter than standing straight up
So that's why "de_rats" and it's variants were a thing, it could of had been a joke from the mappers that noticed how the scale of the player model was smaller than other Goldsrc games.
As a Hammer++ enjoyer it's true tbh
The models are more hunched over because they're going into combat - that's why.
I love to think that someone was playing around with values and when resetting back to 64 they simply placed their hand on one key to the left before typing and didn't pay attention
This music from main menu cs:cz..Awesome.
5:30 that would be the same if you would change resolution proportion to 4:3 in CS 1.6 and CS Source. 16:9 in CS Source give 110 degrees FOV, and 90 degrees for CS 1.6
I cannot unsee being the tallest in condition zero deleted scenes, thanks
I'm pretty sure they changed the eye height for CS to compensate for the hunched-over animations for the CS playermodels.
the post beta models were short in general, being even shorter than half life scientists, and their animations didnt help either
Guess it’s still popular since 2012 even this game is 10 years old now.
In Cs ur legs are bent and usually back too, head leaned forwards. Explains why you're shorter that straight standing hostages
Hello @ESCalation ,
Is there some simple article of the scale of CS1,6 / CSCZDS and CSGO?
Would you be able to tell if my summarization below is right?
CS1,6 map in CSGO
• Everything looks smaller because CS1,6 view is in 53 units but in csgo the view is in 64 units
CSCZDS map in CSGO
• Everything looks the same because in CSCZDS view is in 64 as in CSGO
• Only difference is that the CSGO player model will stick out more behind some crates because in csgo the player models are taller
• In summary the only differences are in heights. The width dimensions are the same in all games (32x32 units)
• Are there any other scale differencies?
Thank you.
the only other scale differences one must account for are tge choisees of the level designers
Seems like a half decent way of making head glitching less of an issue
While the crouching was of course ridiculous, I actually like the idea of reducing the standing height, simply to nerf the speed of crouching. When crouching is used to -accidentally- dodge a bullet, it never feels fair, so I wouldn't mind experimenting with nerfing that possibility.
Maybe the camera height is lower because the player models are always hunched over.
i didnt wonder, the camera is in the chest hight
Vote to change height measurements to simply "Half-Life height" and "CS height". xD
wei kauntastrike zis is veri good my friend
But why can you hide behind the 1.6 boxes on Dust 2 A Site and not in CSS
I bet back in the day they playtested their mod and some of the devs thought it feels better with the lower value and just changed it...
Maybe even the guy you asked.. they prolly were baked af back in the days and they simply dont remember but thats just a guess..
Thanks Escalation, answering the questions no one asked but we are still interested in lol. Also what was at 6:51 onwards, is that just csgo with reskinned hud on a source map? Or its part of classic offensive mod?
its classic offensicve
aaaaaaaaaaaa never use left hand in cs 1.6, that is more cursed than crab walking instead of crouching
Bro i have always thought about this, the player height, dimensions and it always has bothered me.
Source Engine scale is wrong in general, it seems to be 2.54x smaller than what things should be in terms of real units.
"Meta experts refer to this as "cursed"" idk why but this was hilarious to hear xD
interesting observation!
but it feels unique and iconic
This may have also contributed to complaints that CS:GO feels "slow" - since the player feels 21% taller, but is moving around 5% slower with weapons in hand.
P.S.: My IRL camera height is exactly 64 inches, so that must be the reason why I prefer CS:GO.
5:17 LMAO " the boys got bigger"
What your crosshair code in the nuke?
Cool pfp
would you like a steam key for my fps game? its still in pre-alpha
Guten Tag! Geiles Video!
valorant playermodels are also taller than the pov camera and it bothers me alot
@@RavenKStudios yet it still happens more often than it should
Never even noticed
Counter Strike isn't small, it's adequate...it's average...quite big if you think about it...huge even
is more much difficult to aim today than in 1.6
i mean minh le is not wrong most Vietnamese is short than everyone else in the world so that why the map look like that .
08:03 - cs_radio? Link?
Always believed it to be 15%
Ah no wonder it's easy to jump on other's heads in Source
does plasma stand for plasma burst :D?
1 am and im here trying to understand why csgo is 17% bigger than Counter Strike
In counter strike everyone hump, did you not see
thx, great video
where do I know his voice from
Ej bro 1.6 is so much better than C's gay bro 1.6 are king of all games
You're all wrong. The fact is that people time ago were shorter than newer ones😂
How about to credit a dude that did the cover of the CZ that you used?
It's Drex Wiln btw
Cs 1.6 anyway always was and will be better
Half life 1 even taller than CS 1.6
Damn I wonder why
5'6" Simulator
Nice video
thx!
rip dedust2
I don't remember the game but I played one before where they had the "eyes" in the mouth to prevent headglitching.
this
Higher screen resolution.
Cs 1.6 is still 17% more fun then csgo
Women be like: real men start from 64 units
noice
Cs 1.6 is full of short bros
3:29 Russian pet
genius
Did you make this vid based on Warowl video " playing on 1.6 maps" where cs go models have to crouch in old Nuke map vents?
I wonder, how long do you think it takes me to make such a video?
you have to crouch in cs 1.6 too, old nuke vents were just tiny
you see more of cs 1.6 tiny size in 3kliksphilips video where he makes those maps that warowl played
4:52 / 8:14
💃 p̾r̾o̾m̾o̾s̾m̾
uwu 👉👈