Really great presentation of the actual operation of a narrow gage Shay steam locomotive. Very well presented history of the Shay. Very informative and intertainig❤.
Grew up on the west coast and on a youth outing in the late 60's, we went to the Santa Cruz redwoods. They took us to the Roaring Camp narrow gauge tourist line after a hike through a giant redwood forest. I had no idea the place even existed and had never seen a geared loco. You grow up seeing and loving steam trains then you find out about this design that's unlike anything you'd ever seen before. As a kid I was mesmerized. I dragged the family back and we rode it to the top of the mountain. As the years went on, I'd bring my own children to ride it many times. Shay locos have been my favorite choo-choo design ever since. There are other geared locos but that's the one that will always be at the top of my list. Always wanted to build a scale live steamer but it never came to be. Cheers and thanks for showing us the last narrow gauge shay. 👍
I think it was probably 10 years ago I saw one in the B&O Museum in Philadelphia. Seen a couple others in fairly rough shape since then, but this is the first I've ever seen running. Fortunately, there's a handful of places keeping them alive and running.
I just love the old school mechanical machines of yesterday they are complicated but simple to understand all at the same time. You do a excellent job explaining about the industrial revolution.
Been going there for 30 years now! Better and better every year! Ted and crew keep steam alive! Not only with the trains but the sawmill, power plant, and an Edison generator! Worth every penny!!!! Steam and power show is the best time to go but any excuse is a good one ;)
I just found out about the place over the summer and, unfortunately, the power plant wasn't running for Labor Day, since there was a boiler issue. You're right. If you're anywhere near the place, it's well worth a visit.
Wanna SEE SHAYS in ACTION !! ?? GO to CASS WEST VIRGINIA they have FIVE of them , including the LARGEST SHAY ever BUILT PLUS a Heisler and Climax Geared Locomotive and all these "Geared" Locomotives are RUNNING on ORIGINAL LOGGING Track ! MAGNIFICENT Facility !
Yep, definitely on my list of places to visit next time I get near WV. They have a running class 4 Shay there? Didn't know that. West Virginia's mountains are absolutely perfect habitat for Shays.
Always love your content. Was at Heston about 15 years ago. Need to return. At that time I lived in Las Vegas and flew into visit it. Now live in Michigan.
Great overview of this locomotive, one of my favorites. The only thing missing from this engine versus the fully modernized Shay design is piston valves. I think the only narrow gauge Shay with piston valves is Westside #12 and that was a retrofit. #12 is otherwise very similar, it had a production date of 1926 and originally worked for Swayne Lumber. Great stuff!! ❤❤❤
I've ridden behind # 7 several times since her rebuilding after the engine house fire. I also watched her change as her rebuilding progressed from taking parts off to putting parts back on. She shares the engine house with a Porter 2-6-0 that was also rebuilt from damage from the same fire. Firewood limits her running time since she can use a cord a day during the Steam Show on Labor Day Weekend. She is also the quietest locomotive Hesston has because of the three cylinders and very low gearing, none of the stack talk that 'normal' steam engines have. Hesston is currently rebuilding a second Porter and a Browning Steam Crane that they have on a short section of standard gage track by the sawmill.
I was there a few weeks ago to film the #2 (the HK Porter you mentioned). Haven't edited it yet, but I've got some nice historic photos from that one, too.
I just took a ride in a narrow gauge steam engine here in the northeast and what is always amazing besides the simple complexity ( oxymoron) is how quiet these are once they get moving - compared to a diesel they. Just sort of coast along in a majestic sort of grace... but for the wheel noise and moving parts always made me think of an EV. Given the age of these machines and but for a lack of emission controls I’d bet an old steam engine has the lowest carbon footprint of any modern similar machine when the age is factored in. Great video
Some of the emissions aren't even too bad, depending on the coal you're burning. External combustion is generally quite a bit more efficient than internal combustion. Some, as far back as even the mid-1800's, burned coke, instead of coal, to reduce emissions. Reducing emissions, and fire risk, is something they're still working on, though.
Shays can be very loud, too; it depends on the terrain. I've ridden on the Cass Scenic Railroad in WV behind two of their shays; they are pushing and pulling trains up grades of 6 or 7 percent or more, and they are roaring spectacularly. Of course, whether quiet or really loud, shays are magnificent machines.
That's actually a really good idea. It's sorta like showing articulated locomotives on curves (why are these always displayed on straight track?) It'd have to somewhere where the train is moving fairly slow, and moving from straight to going around a fairly tight turn. I'll keep an eye out for an opportunity.
I've seen a few in bad shape in museums, but this is the first one I've ever seen running. More places should get these up and running. They're really unique.
I'm familiar with #9 Shay, of Midwest Central Railroad, Mount Pleasant Iowa, The engine has also been leased out to The George Town Loop, Colorado in the past.
I'm jealous, I've been to Heston 3 times, and have not been able to see #7 in Operation, or ride behind her. Hopefully some day I'll win, but for now it's nice dreams.
Well, it took me two tries, too :) Keep an eye on their facebook page. It looks like they post when they're running which locomotive. Talking with the volunteers there, it sounds like Labor Day Weekend is likely to a safe bet.
Yep, turning radius. With the universal joints and prismatic joints, each axle is free to turn independently, instead of all the drive axles being locked together. Out on main lines in open country, that's not much of an issue, but on more rugged, mountain lines, it can be the difference between spending millions (in today's dollars, at least) on tunnels, or just going along the edge of a ravine. In logging railroads, since the tracks were often temporary, sharp curves were especially appreciated, too, since you didn't have to build up as much temporary rail bed.
Also, shays had a lot of power relative to their size--lots of torque. They could pull trains up grades where standard rod engines would have real trouble.
I haven't been there in quite a while, probably 6 or 8 years. I remember they had a shay partially taken apart, but didn't see one running when I was there.
What a fantastic locomotive! Like you say” a real work horse” and what a back story. They must of been Farley expensive to build and with all the drive train exposed, may be some maintenance issues. I can see why you had to go back and take a look!! Not good idea to be track side when he opens them drain cocks though!🙂
Glad you enjoyed it. There's a handful of these still running around the US, but not many. I may have been a bit further away than I appeared. Barely got any steam at all.
The last narrow gauge shay ever built, not the last one still in existence. As stated in the video, there were also a few standard-gauge shays built after this one (and at least one still exists). There's a handful still operational around the country today.
I didn't find it all that loud. Someone commented that, when it hits a serious climb, it gets loud. Probably because the exhaust steam vents straight out the side, not up through the stack.
I’m surprised that any kind of conversation is required for external combustion engines… I’d expect them to be fuel agnostic, at least as far as mostly solid stuff that burns goes…
Wood vs coal is mostly just a matter of changing the grating, so that's easy. Also, you go through a lot more wood. Changing to oil, propane, etc is a bit trickier. England passed a new law that heritage railroads couldn't burn bituminous coal, but could still burn anthracite. Problem is, they don't have anthracite, so they had to import. They started importing from Russia, and as soon as they did, Russia invaded Ukraine and the coal imports were blocked. They've gone through a LOT of other stuff they've tried burning trying to find something that works as well. There was a fair amount of discussion when it first hit, and I haven't heard much since, so not sure if they found something else, or just started importing anthracite from Pennsylvania, or somewhere else.
@@Industrial_Revolution Anthracite requires a different firebox design to burn well. You can't just replace bituminous with anthracite and get away with it. Look up Wooten firebox design. Many of the western engines (NP primarily but UP and others too) were designed to use 'rosebud' coal, or something a little better than peat moss with grates that seemed similar to anthracite fireboxes in terms of grate area per pound of coal per hour. I would imagine that the English found this out since they didn't have much anthracite. I also suspect that their heritage engines aren't being driven as hard as they were during their heyday. This would help the transition by not driving gas flow as high, preventing lifting the burning coal straight out the stack. New York heating systems used anthracite for many years because of its tendency to produce much less fly ash and smoke. The coal was mined in Eastern Pennsylvania and created several railroads in the process.
Please put the covers back on the gears. Please don’t tell me she was built without them? Those covers are a safety device and can keep things out of the gear’s possible saving a life.
The Shay's I've seen, none of them have had any kind of covers over those gears. This is the only one I've seen running, but I've seen several not running, and all had the gears exposed.
@ GB&L14 and 12 both have covers. These are ex Westside Lumber Company locomotives. The covers are a simple piece of bent heavy gauge steel that only covers the pinion gear. After watching the video closely the bracket and studs are still intact. I have these two Shays under my belt when I worked for The Georgetown Loop in 2004.
Hmmmm... That brings up a couple questions. 1) Where these optional from Lima? The mounts would be standard on the castings, but were the actual covers not standard equipment? 2) Other than showing off the gearing, was there also a good reason to actually remove them? This is the only one I've seen running, but I've seen at least three others, and none had covers over the gears. I wonder if they caused problems. You ever have issues with the ones you ran?
@@Industrial_Revolution After looking at a bunch of pictures I did find an example that appears to have an original cast cover on the front axle. I had always assumed that they were just sheet steel. I can’t help to think that cast covers would have been quite brittle? That would explain the crude appearance of those covers that I have seen.
@ They never caused any operational issues but do make greasing the gears a little bit more difficult. Traction motor gear grease works fine and isn’t messy if you place the bag at the top of the gears and move forward with the engine. Rotation takes care of the rest as far as distribution. A couple of the photos I looked at had small openings at the top for greasing the gears. One of the guys that I worked with had a story about a guy that he worked with at Roaring Camp and Big Trees Railroad. It seems that one of their locomotives was missing the covers and a conductor slipped and got a hand caught in the gear of the rear truck. Although I have no way of substantiating the story the reality remains the same. The covers are a safety device that are required for any locomotive in service including tourists lines. I hope this is received in the spirit that it is intended. I have seen some crazy things working on the railroad and just want everyone to go home safe.
As a machinist, the open bevel gearing makes me get all uneasy. I know she's built tough, but I just get nightmares of a tooth getting mangled or chipped by a pebble kicked up in there. I've done too many repairs on gear teeth snapped off by "someone who was there before me".... I guess if they weren't going to fit cases with rotating seals (which would have been "special" for the era), leaving them open like this was less likely to accumulate detritus.
I haven't heard of gear breakage being an issue, although it may have happened. These never went fast, maxing out at something like 10mph, so that may have helped.
@@Industrial_Revolution Fair point. She's freight, and unlikely to kick up much. I bet there's some pretty decent clearances at tooth root, too....give some space in case something does wind up in there.
Really great presentation of the actual operation of a narrow gage Shay steam locomotive. Very well presented history of the Shay. Very informative and intertainig❤.
Thanks! Glad you liked it.
Grew up on the west coast and on a youth outing in the late 60's, we went to the Santa Cruz redwoods. They took us to the Roaring Camp narrow gauge tourist line after a hike through a giant redwood forest. I had no idea the place even existed and had never seen a geared loco. You grow up seeing and loving steam trains then you find out about this design that's unlike anything you'd ever seen before. As a kid I was mesmerized. I dragged the family back and we rode it to the top of the mountain. As the years went on, I'd bring my own children to ride it many times. Shay locos have been my favorite choo-choo design ever since. There are other geared locos but that's the one that will always be at the top of my list. Always wanted to build a scale live steamer but it never came to be.
Cheers and thanks for showing us the last narrow gauge shay. 👍
I think it was probably 10 years ago I saw one in the B&O Museum in Philadelphia. Seen a couple others in fairly rough shape since then, but this is the first I've ever seen running. Fortunately, there's a handful of places keeping them alive and running.
@@Industrial_Revolution 👍👍
I just love the old school mechanical machines of yesterday they are complicated but simple to understand all at the same time. You do a excellent job explaining about the industrial revolution.
Thanks! Glad you like it. Plenty more to come.
I know Shay #7 well and rode on it many times over the years. Heston is an awesome place to visit!
It is. I can't believe I didn't know about the place years ago.
Been going there for 30 years now! Better and better every year! Ted and crew keep steam alive! Not only with the trains but the sawmill, power plant, and an Edison generator! Worth every penny!!!! Steam and power show is the best time to go but any excuse is a good one ;)
I just found out about the place over the summer and, unfortunately, the power plant wasn't running for Labor Day, since there was a boiler issue. You're right. If you're anywhere near the place, it's well worth a visit.
edit: Thank you for the video and the whole channel as well.
Thanks! I really appreciate it!
Wanna SEE SHAYS in ACTION !! ?? GO to CASS WEST VIRGINIA they have FIVE of them , including the LARGEST SHAY ever BUILT
PLUS a Heisler and Climax Geared Locomotive and all these "Geared" Locomotives are RUNNING on ORIGINAL LOGGING Track !
MAGNIFICENT Facility !
Yep, definitely on my list of places to visit next time I get near WV. They have a running class 4 Shay there? Didn't know that. West Virginia's mountains are absolutely perfect habitat for Shays.
@@Industrial_Revolution Don't forget to get the tour of the heavy shop.
Always look for stuff like that.
Always love your content. Was at Heston about 15 years ago. Need to return. At that time I lived in Las Vegas and flew into visit it. Now live in Michigan.
It's a great place to explore steam power, isn't it? I think they're closed until spring now, but it's almost spring, right?
Great overview of this locomotive, one of my favorites.
The only thing missing from this engine versus the fully modernized Shay design is piston valves. I think the only narrow gauge Shay with piston valves is Westside #12 and that was a retrofit. #12 is otherwise very similar, it had a production date of 1926 and originally worked for Swayne Lumber.
Great stuff!! ❤❤❤
Thanks for the comments, and the info!
I've ridden behind # 7 several times since her rebuilding after the engine house fire. I also watched her change as her rebuilding progressed from taking parts off to putting parts back on. She shares the engine house with a Porter 2-6-0 that was also rebuilt from damage from the same fire. Firewood limits her running time since she can use a cord a day during the Steam Show on Labor Day Weekend. She is also the quietest locomotive Hesston has because of the three cylinders and very low gearing, none of the stack talk that 'normal' steam engines have. Hesston is currently rebuilding a second Porter and a Browning Steam Crane that they have on a short section of standard gage track by the sawmill.
I was there a few weeks ago to film the #2 (the HK Porter you mentioned). Haven't edited it yet, but I've got some nice historic photos from that one, too.
Me to
Lovely stuff I subscribed. Greetings from England 🏴
Thanks! Glad you liked it. I need to get over to England. So much steam heritage there.
I just took a ride in a narrow gauge steam engine here in the northeast and what is always amazing besides the simple complexity ( oxymoron) is how quiet these are once they get moving - compared to a diesel they. Just sort of coast along in a majestic sort of grace... but for the wheel noise and moving parts always made me think of an EV. Given the age of these machines and but for a lack of emission controls I’d bet an old steam engine has the lowest carbon footprint of any modern similar machine when the age is factored in. Great video
Some of the emissions aren't even too bad, depending on the coal you're burning. External combustion is generally quite a bit more efficient than internal combustion. Some, as far back as even the mid-1800's, burned coke, instead of coal, to reduce emissions. Reducing emissions, and fire risk, is something they're still working on, though.
Shays can be very loud, too; it depends on the terrain. I've ridden on the Cass Scenic Railroad in WV behind two of their shays; they are pushing and pulling trains up grades of 6 or 7 percent or more, and they are roaring spectacularly. Of course, whether quiet or really loud, shays are magnificent machines.
Love Shay. Nice video.
Thanks! Definitely nice locomotives.
It would’ve been cool if you were able to stick a camera somewhere where we could see the joints in action
That's actually a really good idea. It's sorta like showing articulated locomotives on curves (why are these always displayed on straight track?) It'd have to somewhere where the train is moving fairly slow, and moving from straight to going around a fairly tight turn. I'll keep an eye out for an opportunity.
I’ve never seen a gear driven locomotive before. Thanks for traveling to Indiana to show us.
I've seen a few in bad shape in museums, but this is the first one I've ever seen running. More places should get these up and running. They're really unique.
Excellent description of a shay and also great video
Thanks! Glad you liked it.
I'm familiar with #9 Shay, of Midwest Central Railroad, Mount Pleasant Iowa, The engine has also been leased out to The George Town Loop, Colorado in the past.
Not familiar with that railroad. I'll have to take a look
Thanks for the video 😃
Glad you liked it!
Very interesting
Thanks!
I would really enjoy finding a scenic railroad park that runs a Shay engine, that wouldn't be far from where I live. I'm 50 miles west of Bryson City.
There's a couple running in West Virginia. Not exactly walking distance, but maybe not too far?
I'm jealous, I've been to Heston 3 times, and have not been able to see #7 in Operation, or ride behind her. Hopefully some day I'll win, but for now it's nice dreams.
Well, it took me two tries, too :) Keep an eye on their facebook page. It looks like they post when they're running which locomotive. Talking with the volunteers there, it sounds like Labor Day Weekend is likely to a safe bet.
What is the driving reason for the gear drive? Was it specifically for the tighter corner radius?
Yep, turning radius. With the universal joints and prismatic joints, each axle is free to turn independently, instead of all the drive axles being locked together. Out on main lines in open country, that's not much of an issue, but on more rugged, mountain lines, it can be the difference between spending millions (in today's dollars, at least) on tunnels, or just going along the edge of a ravine. In logging railroads, since the tracks were often temporary, sharp curves were especially appreciated, too, since you didn't have to build up as much temporary rail bed.
Also, shays had a lot of power relative to their size--lots of torque. They could pull trains up grades where standard rod engines would have real trouble.
I did not previously know that IRM’s J. Neils Lumber Company No. 5 had the last narrow-gauge Shay for a shop-mate!
I haven't been there in quite a while, probably 6 or 8 years. I remember they had a shay partially taken apart, but didn't see one running when I was there.
What a fantastic locomotive! Like you say” a real work horse” and what a back story.
They must of been Farley expensive to build and with all the drive train exposed, may be some maintenance issues.
I can see why you had to go back and take a look!!
Not good idea to be track side when he opens them drain cocks though!🙂
Glad you enjoyed it. There's a handful of these still running around the US, but not many.
I may have been a bit further away than I appeared. Barely got any steam at all.
0:27 assuming you've never seen a Willamette
Nope, I haven't. Know any good ones, preferably running?
@@Industrial_Revolution It's basically an improved Shay built by a different company.
No, that’s not the last Shay. There’s another Shay stored at the Pine Creek Railroad in New Jersey.
The last narrow gauge shay ever built, not the last one still in existence. As stated in the video, there were also a few standard-gauge shays built after this one (and at least one still exists). There's a handful still operational around the country today.
Bro can’t read lmao
It is said that a shay sounded like sixty when it was doing six
I didn't find it all that loud. Someone commented that, when it hits a serious climb, it gets loud. Probably because the exhaust steam vents straight out the side, not up through the stack.
I’m surprised that any kind of conversation is required for external combustion engines… I’d expect them to be fuel agnostic, at least as far as mostly solid stuff that burns goes…
Wood vs coal is mostly just a matter of changing the grating, so that's easy. Also, you go through a lot more wood. Changing to oil, propane, etc is a bit trickier.
England passed a new law that heritage railroads couldn't burn bituminous coal, but could still burn anthracite. Problem is, they don't have anthracite, so they had to import. They started importing from Russia, and as soon as they did, Russia invaded Ukraine and the coal imports were blocked. They've gone through a LOT of other stuff they've tried burning trying to find something that works as well. There was a fair amount of discussion when it first hit, and I haven't heard much since, so not sure if they found something else, or just started importing anthracite from Pennsylvania, or somewhere else.
@@Industrial_Revolution Anthracite requires a different firebox design to burn well. You can't just replace bituminous with anthracite and get away with it. Look up Wooten firebox design. Many of the western engines (NP primarily but UP and others too) were designed to use 'rosebud' coal, or something a little better than peat moss with grates that seemed similar to anthracite fireboxes in terms of grate area per pound of coal per hour. I would imagine that the English found this out since they didn't have much anthracite. I also suspect that their heritage engines aren't being driven as hard as they were during their heyday. This would help the transition by not driving gas flow as high, preventing lifting the burning coal straight out the stack. New York heating systems used anthracite for many years because of its tendency to produce much less fly ash and smoke. The coal was mined in Eastern Pennsylvania and created several railroads in the process.
Please put the covers back on the gears.
Please don’t tell me she was built without them? Those covers are a safety device and can keep things out of the gear’s possible saving a life.
The Shay's I've seen, none of them have had any kind of covers over those gears. This is the only one I've seen running, but I've seen several not running, and all had the gears exposed.
@
GB&L14 and 12 both have covers. These are ex Westside Lumber Company locomotives.
The covers are a simple piece of bent heavy gauge steel that only covers the pinion gear.
After watching the video closely the bracket and studs are still intact.
I have these two Shays under my belt when I worked for The Georgetown Loop in 2004.
Hmmmm... That brings up a couple questions.
1) Where these optional from Lima? The mounts would be standard on the castings, but were the actual covers not standard equipment?
2) Other than showing off the gearing, was there also a good reason to actually remove them? This is the only one I've seen running, but I've seen at least three others, and none had covers over the gears. I wonder if they caused problems. You ever have issues with the ones you ran?
@@Industrial_Revolution
After looking at a bunch of pictures I did find an example that appears to have an original cast cover on the front axle.
I had always assumed that they were just sheet steel. I can’t help to think that cast covers would have been quite brittle? That would explain the crude appearance of those covers that I have seen.
@
They never caused any operational issues but do make greasing the gears a little bit more difficult.
Traction motor gear grease works fine and isn’t messy if you place the bag at the top of the gears and move forward with the engine. Rotation takes care of the rest as far as distribution.
A couple of the photos I looked at had small openings at the top for greasing the gears.
One of the guys that I worked with had a story about a guy that he worked with at Roaring Camp and Big Trees Railroad. It seems that one of their locomotives was missing the covers and a conductor slipped and got a hand caught in the gear of the rear truck.
Although I have no way of substantiating the story the reality remains the same. The covers are a safety device that are required for any locomotive in service including tourists lines.
I hope this is received in the spirit that it is intended.
I have seen some crazy things working on the railroad and just want everyone to go home safe.
As a machinist, the open bevel gearing makes me get all uneasy. I know she's built tough, but I just get nightmares of a tooth getting mangled or chipped by a pebble kicked up in there. I've done too many repairs on gear teeth snapped off by "someone who was there before me".... I guess if they weren't going to fit cases with rotating seals (which would have been "special" for the era), leaving them open like this was less likely to accumulate detritus.
I haven't heard of gear breakage being an issue, although it may have happened. These never went fast, maxing out at something like 10mph, so that may have helped.
@@Industrial_Revolution Fair point. She's freight, and unlikely to kick up much.
I bet there's some pretty decent clearances at tooth root, too....give some space in case something does wind up in there.