Avoid Common Buyer Mistakes - Rat Rig V-Core 3.1
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- Опубліковано 30 чер 2024
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Configuring your own 3D printer requires decisions, even if you go for a pre-configured kit, you have to decide if that's right for you. In this video, I go through all the configuration options for the Rat Rig V-Core 3.1 so that you can make an informed decision when getting your DIY 3D Printer kit.
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0:00 Rat Rig V-Core 3.1 Buying Recommendations
0:31 Build Volume
2:11 Control Board
3:01 Hotend
4:13 Extruder
5:26 Printed Parts
6:29 Stepper Motors
7:12 Flex Plate Print Surface
7:47 Bed Heater
8:28 Solid State Relay
8:44 Power Supply
9:25 Fans
10:18 Z Probe
11:21 Endstops
13:02 Spool Holder
13:42 Enclosure
15:26 Final Configuration
15:47 Extras - Наука та технологія
Updates since creating the video:
Fans have been divided into categories. For hotend fan, take the only (40mm) option. For part cooling, it is expensive but go with the 9GAX0412P3S001.
Clarification on endstops: I perhaps didn't stress enough that configuration of sensor-less homing takes a while, I'd recommend using physical endstops, especially for new users.
The 500x500x500 is massive. I got a farmer mate to use his digger to push me and the printer up to the first floor window of my office, because it won’t fit through the doors!
Man that sounds adventurous.
Truly something to think about as an assembled 500 will not fit through a standard door. Verified.
Just a note on sensorless homing: don't do it. There are multiple reasons for this. Sensorless homing on a CoreXY machine uses two drivers for one axis, this makes it a PITA to tune to a point where it's reliable, especially if you haven't done it before. There are so many people who come to the RatOS support channel complaining how their printer homes in the wrong direction (it doesn't, it just triggers instantly), crashing, stops working from one day to another etc etc, because it's not configured properly. Sensorless homing is unique to every printer, it depends on the moving mass, the tension of the belts and the motors used. There's just too many variables. I can guarantee that anyone will be done wiring endstops loooong before they have a reliable sensorless homing setup. It's just not worth it on CoreXY. You have been warned.
Absolutely well said!
I did ask around in the RR discord a little while back when planning this video and a few people said it was easy and they had no issues with it. That's the only reason I mentioned it tbh, I'm quite happy with good ol' endstops.
@@Vector3DP Once it's tuned and you don't touch anything it's fine. It's everything up until that point. Also i suspect those people may have been talking about sensorless homing on the V-Minion. But it's fair enough to mention, and you do mention it's extra setup time.
Agree on that, sensorless homing on multi-motor axis (core xy, dual y on bedflingers, dual x/y on cross xy like annex k2/k3) is just a pain
I mean it's completely fine if you tune it. Been running sensorless just fine for a few years on my corexy machines. What you should say is that if you're a beginner who isn't interested in tuning don't do it.
Great video as always 👍
Good advice on the selection of choice.
Thanks for sharing your experience with All of us 👍😃
Followed your recommendations and now I'm replacing the Revo with a Rapido. The Revo just can't push enough filament. May need to replace the LGX Lite with an Orbiter as well. I plan on printing with a larger nozzle, so the extra material will be necessary.
8:44 actually they state in the configurator that the "Meanwell LRS PSU is non-compliant on EU mains for use with 3D Printers. Please select Weho if you're EU/UK based" !
I would recommend everybody to build the Open Front version. It's a lot more accessible and easier to enclose.
Just completed mine after using the OG 3.0 and 100% agree. The bar in front is a nuisance. And much easier to enclose (less pieces and the folding lid still gets in the way)
more ratrig videos pls, you're spot on!!!
Just finished the 300mm version. all I need is the wiring. With the prusa mk3s + I printed all the parts in petg, except for the eva, asa. For the eva 3d I opted for the version with brass inserts and for the mosquito. the only one I wanted to find is a manual that also includes other options, not just the factory ones. In any case, I prefer it to voron, if only for the fact that its a European prosotto
PEI is totally fine for PLA, if you have issues, its you. I print with the texture side of my PEI sheet in PLA primarily and it works.
the Revo Ecosystem has the downside of being inpractical if you plan to print certain Engineering Filaments, they tend to be outside of the Temperature Range of the Revo Heater.
might be worth to mention.
Personally i print Nylon up to 330°C for getting the little bit extra in Layeradhesion and Density.
Totally agree with Superbrain! I printed with my Ratrig 500 mostly PVC, PP, PC, PC/CF, Nylon/CF. So the Revo is not an option for me.
So, I was trying to follow this to make a basic outline for what parts I want for my printer, but when I went looking for those meanwell UHP 200w power supplies I found there's tons of varieties and I had no idea which one I was supposed to pick, do you mind giving me a suggestion on which one you'd recommend?
Disagree on the revo voron because of the flow rate and lack of hardened nozzles. I had a revo on my voron 2.4 and pulled it out to put a rapido in. With a revo, a .4 nozzle can’t print much faster 200 mm/s at .4 layer width and .2 height, .6 nozzle is capped to ~90 mm/s and 0.8 nozzles is 50 mm/s. You are spending big money on a printer that’s big feature is it can print fast at high quality and then knee capping it with a hot end that has terrible flow. Just my opinion though.
Same here. I agree that UHF hotends are not necessarily the best choice, but unfortunately and despite all it's pros the 15mm^3/s of the Revo is just too much of a downside.
On printers like these it's EASY to need 20-25mm^3/s of flowrate. Try slicing 0.3 layer height with 0.6mm line widths at any basic speed for that kind of printer (that is >100mm/s). Even with 0.2 layer height and 0.4 lines it's easy to outperform the Revo.
I would use a standard hotend like a Dragon and put a CHT nozzle. Still compatible with all your hard nozzles if need be, supports >25mm^3/s easily.
if I took the octopus with just the tmc2209 and used marlin, what would I lose by not adding the raspberry and klipper? btw I already have a raspberry 3b + in the house, so I can also take the step to klipper later
Good recommendations. A couple of suggestions, I agree with the Octopus for the main board, but I recommend ordering direct - not from RR, they charge VAT on all of the parts, it is 100 euro before VAT. From BTT direct ii is $80 with 8 drivers. Also be very careful not to need anything separate as their minimum shipping is over $30 to the US. I have a 400 cube and a 500 cube, and as a hobbyist the larger printers are what I need, I can print smaller objects on them, but am very happy to be able to use the full bed when needed. I also found a local glass company that cut pieces for each printer $35 for the 400 and $50 for the 500. They work great and are very flat. Some thing to watch is the BIGTREETECH Manta M4P/M8P Control Board running Klipper with CB1/CM4. A new board from BTT that includes a SBC very similar to a Raspberry PI. For $100 you get a board with 8 2209 drivers and a SBC all on one board. Curious to see if RAT OS will support it
It will support the M8P, but it will not support the CB1’s only CM4. Tons of issues with the CB1’s and it’s based on a non public modification of armbian. Only raspberry pi OS based devices will be officially supported in the foreseeable future.
@@miklschmidt Thanks for the information. I was curious if it would work, new and not much information on it yet.
However, its not only VAT that is added when ordering direct from BTT. Its also customs, which can be rediculously high in some european countries.
@@WolframWebers Good points. You have the opposite cost challenges, for me getting it from EU is very expensive - shipping is very high
If the target for this video is someone new to 3d printing kits, the recommendation for maybe doing sensor less homing I think is wrong. Get endstops, and use the endstops. Setting up sensor less homing is a pain and not something I would recommend for most new people
Exactly this!
Thoughts on making a 300x300x500 V3.1? I'd like the Z height for printing RC aircraft parts, and have never found that I need more then 280mn or so as a footprint.
I think Vorons or other flying gantry printers might be better for printing tall objects.
There is no 500mm cubed build volume Rat Rig. They sell one they claim is 500mm but the frame isnt large enough to get 500mm build volumn. Once you get your hotend and fans on and the leveling sensor you are not going to have 500 X 500 X 500. You might get 480 if you get the right hotend.
Good video but personally I would disagree on two choices.
First Revo, right now it only has brass nozzles. So no abrasives for it like glow in the dark or CF filament.
Rapido for light abrasives or CHC Pro for not having to worry about that.
2nd is the LGX lite.
While overall a nice extruder the Orbiter 2.0 has a lot more power. It has pushed through stuff where a LGX lite would skip.
Lastly the Meanwell doesnt get shipped to EU anymore, so you have to select the weho or buy a meanwell somewhere else.
ObXidian is not far off though, and imo its best to make a good decision now than have to change over later.
For extruder, from my extrusion testing, if the force is too much for this extruder, then it just means the hotend is pushing out unmolten filament; the problem is the hotend, not the extruder. Pushing harder removes the symptom, but it doesn't make a better print.
@@Vector3DP which gets us again back to revo not being suitable. It just cant push that much material
@@Vector3DP yeah but you haven't tested the rapido yet which can outrun the lgx lite. Also hanging out in the discord server and you will see so many people complain about the lgx lite
@@Vector3DP As John said it here, the Rapido can outrun the LGX lite, so its not actually an issue with pushing out unmelted material but simply not having the speed to push enough melted through fast enough. This is potentially more of an edge case but listing options for different use cases or simply buying one that can do it all is not bad.
Who knows, even the upcoming Revo HF could be too much for the LGX Lite.
As for ObXidian, its just that I have been a bit skeptical about the actual release date. You might know more but there is no official date yet.
It was announced last year to be released at the start of the year. Now unfortunate events aside it still has taken extra time to even be in the hand of reviewers now and thats already been some time ago.
@@Vector3DP the problem is often the extruder. I've used both the lgx lite and orbiter, and the difference is night and day. The difference in pushing force is really evident when you have a hotend which can outpace the extruder, like the rapido or dragon UHF
Choice of PSU is not so easy if you happen to live in the EU. The RatRig shop states: "WARNING: Meanwell LRS PSU is non-compliant on EU mains for use with 3D Printers. Please select Weho if you're EU/UK based, otherwise your PSU cost will be automatically refunded".
hey, what is the tissue you have behind ? Is it for insulation ? Could you please share how it is called ? Thanks =)
I have the Vcore 3 400 with the enclosure. If you do go with the enclosure, check the dxf files! The sides for the lids were not correct. There is only one mounting hole that is usable (top, center) there should be 3 across the top, and 2 down the front. Also the doors are a touch too big. They don't fit between the corner brackets vertically and too wide. The pneumatic arms are a pain to adjust.
With that said, this is the first time I have been able to print ABS successfully.
Could you please tell me what temp is inside enclosure while printing? And do you have any active heating fitted?
Thanks!
@@bogdanoprea4686 I don't have a temp gauge inside of my enclosure, but, the printer sits with an AC vent blowing on it and I have no issues printing ABS. The only heating is from the bed.
@@tonytillman3953 I wanted to know if it is 50c+ or you need an active heating option. I want to buy one just for abs,asa,pc.
Did you had any warping? and what type of filament do you use?
Thanks! Much appreciated!
@@opreabogdan6773 I do not have a temperature gauge inside of the enclosure. I don't know what the temp is. No I do not have active heating, the only heat is from the bed. I can print Hatchbox ABS successfully with no warping or cracking.
should note you do need to get the back panel that holds the electronics separately
Lots of people use din rails as an alternative
Ey! Great video, very useful. Do you think there is a noticeable print quality comparing 300x300, 400x400 and 500x500?
Print quality, no, but the smaller printers can do higher acceleration and so can print faster theoretically.
@@Vector3DP Thank you! I think I can pay "speed" if I can print bigger with the same print quality.
Did anyone go for the Duet3 version ? What made you choose this (benefits/drawbacks) ? I'm asking because I already have a CNC with Duet3 mb6hc.
Instead of ABS for the parts, I would suggest a PC-blend (PC-PETG or PC-PLA). It's similar cost to a PLA+, more rigid than ABS, prints around 240°C, but has a very high heat deflection temperature.
Where are you buying it for similar cost to pla+?
Nice to see the 4028 axial fan, those things simply let dual 5015 radials look like toys. There is even a more powerful 4028 available from sanyo deki or whatever the company is called. 50m3/s and 3 times the pressure of the most powerful sunon 5015, those flow only 9m3/s.
Alo worth to mention: when choosing the rapido or magnum plus you should still get the 250w psu over the higher quality meanwell. The rapido literally sucks power away from your steppers and fans, i speak from personal experience
You mentioned the revo has high flow options. Are they available now? I can't seem to find any.
nope :(
How about using ASA in place of ABS. 3DXTech advertises its ASA as having a glass transition temperature of 105 c which is the same as ABS to my knowledge. Would like your opinion. Thx.
ASA is perfectly fine too
@@warmesuppe Thx!
How would you compare the build experience between ratrig and voron Bc I struggled quite a bit with the voron would you say the ratrig experience is easier or about the same?
the ratrig mechanical build is more simple with less printed parts and hardware. the electronics assembly is a bit more complicated, as they don't provide instructions.
mostly agree with morbus. You can use my live videos as instructions :)
If you buy a Revo Voron you have to print all the stuff because isn't compatible with the standard send by rat rig.
Revo Voron is not a good reccomendation. With a 0,4mm nozzle 0,2mm layer, it is good for 140mm/s printing, but i always print with 0,6mm nozzle and 0,3mm layer, then i would be limited to 60mm/s....
Spoiler alert, these recommendations were not tailored specifically to you.
@@Vector3DP No, the hot end revcomendation were tailored for someone that probably should buy a ender 3. Other than that, a good video. But No matter how you look at it, 15mm³ of filament Flow on a corexy machine is waaay too low!
Well CoreXY is not inherently faster remember. Also, you've just picked one parameter of a hotend and decided its the only one that matters. There is much more that goes into this recommendation than just "bigger number better"
@@Vector3DP i agree that there is many parameters, and the Revo Voron is a awesome hot end (i do have it myself and love it), but you should not give it as a recomendation for the Ratrig without some sort of disclamer when is has such an obvious limitation in printing speed, wich you actually talk about when talking about the size. It is about how fast you can extrude filament. The Phaetus Dragon HF has three times the extrusion capacity of the Revo Voron.
Lmao didn't realise the 500mm one won't fit thru the door that's a huge issue that would never think of.
Cheap and reliable hotend would the chc pro be. Same flow rate as a rapido but cheaper and more capable for cf filaments.
not the same flow, but still very good for abrasives.
@@morbus5726 Users in Ratrig Discord tested it and apparently its the same maximum flow.
@@warmesuppe doesn't really make sense, as the rapido is longer and better insulted. I'm also in the server, and I didn't see that.
That extruder hotend combo is honestly pretty bad. Revo has barely any flow, and the lgx can't push very hard.
True, to me Revo is so overrated, like all my nozzle become useless because of a hotend? F**k that hotend for me
Many people has issues with lgx lite (including me)...
build volume or print volume?
revo is honestly not a good idea. No abrasive resistance, slow speeds, get the rapido.
when you print on a glass surface the pinda might not be the right choice - or ?
No. The pinda probe needs the spring steel to sense tbe bed
Power connection?
Nice video. However, when it comes to sensorless homing: don't, specifically not with core xy as the use of 2 drivers instead of one. Anyway, sensorless homing is plain stupid in my eyes. Its like parking a car by bumping into other cars instead of using radar sensor (or your eyes). Its just there to spare some money needed for additional sensors and cables.
Stallguard can have applications beyond homing, and its not really like crashing a car because it can be designed for this function.
@@Vector3DP Well, I didn't say crashing but bumping. Like slowly, slowly approaching the other car until you "feel" some resistance. Anyway, stupid approach IMHO.
Are you able to tie a Linux laptop to the printer to run clipper rather than a Pi?
Of course. You can run a Linux machine that will do the job better than a Pi. But you'll need to configure it yourself. Since the most popular way of running Klipper/OctoPrint is using a Pi, there are more tutorials, and more information on how to install it on a Pi. You can get pre-made images that you flash on an SD card for a Pi, that save you a lot of work. If you know your way around Linux or are up to fiddle around with it until it works - you can do a Linux install. If not - I'd stick with a Pi.
@@borisgoykhman3087 For grins with my Ender 3 Christmas present, I took my 6 yr old Netbook I had put Arch linux on, and put Octoprint on that, hooked it up, and voilla. Went very smooth VERY happy I had that and could put it back to work. Used 25 minute video as quick reference by @ChrisRiley and don't recall having any snags in the process. Caveat: I have been playing with linux for MANY years now.
bl touch or superpinda,,diffrent there is if u print on something else than metalbed, superpinda wont work..then u are gonna need to buy the bl touch.
Or skip both and use the klicky probe. It’s probably the best overall option.
what about btt manta m8p?
this video could use an update :)
I am starting to wonder whether a Bambu Labs isn't becoming (once you can buy it from Amazon and have it delivered in a couple of days) a great alternative unless you're just into 3D printing to mod your own 3d printer ... Even for me as a 3d printing tinkerer (read: more mistakes than well working mods), just getting something that works out of the box sounds so much easier than having to get ABS parts to replace the PETG ones, having to decide between bed-probes which both have their drawbacks, having to figure out yourself how to enclose the thing, ...
I have been watching this, as I'm using a heavily modified E5 Plus and two Rat Rigs. The Bambu Carbon with the filament changing system is $1500 which seems like a fair price. I want to see more regular people report on it as it seems like the big content channels all love it.
rat rig has slightly better performance with more hardware/software flexibility, while Bambu X1 Carbon is a open-to-play no-brainer option. Rat rig has higher max acceleration than Bambu's (20k mm/s3) and higher max speed. Not to say larger build volume.
@@steven9617 I agree, especially the max size. I have a Prusa XL on pre-order and got to see it in action at ERRF. I would really like to get a printer that was designed to have color / filament changing. I'm waiting for more information on both. I like Prusa's track record, and the ongoing support they have provided in their current printers.
I think the X1C (or heck, the P1P if you don't need an enclosure) is an awesome "safety / workhorse" printer that just _works_ and gives you the option to do whatever. Want to build an insane CoreXY? Go ahead, knowing you always have a capable printer back on the shelf that will allow you to print whatever you need without putting you under stress that you might mod yourself into a corner where your printer doesn't work while you need your printer to work to make your printer work ;)
@@cy-one I received my X1 Carbon on Dec 20, the P1P came on Dec 24. Now I have two Rat Rigs and two Bambus - they each have plus and minus. The Rat Rigs - size for sure and ability to mod. The X1, was up an running quickly - without the AMS. The AMS has presented some challenges, mostly because I want to use the external feed, and it is very picky about the spools that work inside.
Don't use sensorless homing. Also, the lgx lite is not the best choice. I would suggest an orbiter v2 for the extra pushing strength. Lgx lite does have the advantage of pretension, but having used both, orbiter is better. Lgx lite just skips soo much.
I've seen almost nothing but problems with the Revo on the prusa discord
buying a normal preforming hotend on a machine like this makes little sence. the second you start actually pushing to what the machine can do the hotend will underpreform badly
GDSTime funs axelent.