How To Do Z-inputs My Way
Вставка
- Опубліковано 18 вер 2024
- I made this video for a friend that was having trouble doing Z-inputs.
If I am wrong about this please tell me in the comments as I am rather new to fighting games, but I just like to make content and help others. When I learn and discover more, I will try and spread the information.
Thank you for checking out the video I really appreciate it.
#fgc #fightinggames #guiltygearstrive #streetfighter
♦ Social Media
Twitter: / nozushii
Twitch: / nozushii
Whats interesting is this works in some of the old stricter games like sf3, pretty kewl
Nice explanation!! Great breakdown with a perfect tempo to follow along with.
Thank you
A "Z motion" is done with forward, then down, then down forward. The input you have described just adds an extra forward. While this can make the motion easier to understand, it's much less efficient and arguably takes more effort. The difference comes with what you do after hitting down. Instead of doing a quarter circle, all you need to do is move your finger to the right in a straight line. From there, improving is mostly a matter of how fast you can go from 'forward' to 'down'. When done optimally starting from a neutral position, it looks like a Z.
There is still a very good takeaway form this video though; holding forward before doing the rest of the motion. What makes the motion so difficult is that whenever you need to use it on the fly your finger needs to perform two sharp turns in quick succession, which requires a lot of practice. If you can afford to hold forward for a bit and then move your finger down, you only need to make one sharp turn. This is why some games remove the top part of the "Z" when you look at that motion in the move list.
You are right, I appreciate your input. Even now, when I play fighting games I try to stop at 3 (numpad notation) when I am doing the z input. Thank you for the knowledge, and I hope people read your reply.
What he just described is the best way new players can grasp the concept, you simply made a whole 2 paragraphs about how using the easier to understand and conceptualise method is actually less efficient then using the… harder and less new player friendly method
I mean, why simplify subjects that are hard to understand and do when you can just give them the full and hard version, let's go to videos about explaining quantum physics next and complain about them not giving the full complicated version of the facts
@@i_dont_pay_taxes491 It only took one paragraph, the second one applies regardless of how you do it.
I agree that it’s at least slightly easier to understand, but it builds bad habits. The only real difference is that you are doing a whole quarter circle instead of just moving your finger to the right. Is that really akin to quantum physics? The quarter circle requires more finger motion, takes longer, and the standing animation makes it easier to hit you with a jump-in/high attack. It’s even worse if the simpler description leads you to lift your finger after hitting forward.
Who knows, maybe there is a factor I’m not considering here since I haven’t been a new player for a few years. If the standard motion is more difficult, how so?
There isn't really a time or efficiency loss though, is there? You just roll your fingers to do the inputs anyway, the only difference is in one version, you hold down the whole time, and in the other, you let go of down. You can hit the punch at the same time in both versions and the DP will come out at exactly the same time, since the forward input is irrelevant.
@@MythicalBlue That is a reasonable argument, but I disagree. I would think that preparing your finger to do a quarter circle would make it slower. Using an input tester, I found can usually do the dp motion (facing right) within 7-8 frames if I'm trying to go as fast as possible. Trying to perform the motion with a qcf at the same speed, it usually takes a frame longer to hit down forward, which wouldn't be so bad if it didn't require much more aggressive finger movement, so much that it even hurts my wrist a bit. It's even harder facing left since your finger has to go into your hand, giving it less room to move.
If anything, I would think this very inefficiency is the exact thing that's helping newer players perform the input, not because it's easier, but because doing the quarter circle forces you to slow down to a managable speed. My assumption is that many new players try to do motions at a speed beyond their current skill level because they aren't experienced enough with the input system to know how much leniency they have, or just want their move to come out faster than it really needs to at their level. Maybe this motion IS useful after all, to help players learn to be patient and plan ahead. Some bad controllers might have a really hard time doing standard DPs, so there's that as well.
It would also be slower if you feel the need to press the button after completing the motion since your finger has to travel more distance, but this could be to the beneifit of a trigger-happy player that likes to press early so they don't miss the input completely. That would be a bad habit though. If you have the skill to consistently press the button inbetween the down and forward inputs without being too early, you might as well be doing traditional DPs anyway.
Sorry for the long reply.
I'm on keyboard and fairly new to ggst but watching how you did it on the controller at the bottom still helped. thanks a ton
honestly i had z inputs down but watching this video made me think about them more and fucked me up
It's just a way of thinking about it.
I am sorry lol.
The way I do them on keyboard is you can kinda do whatever with your 6 and 2 keys, as long as you end on 3 the DP will come out. So for something like wakeup S Vapor Thrust I'm literally drumming on my keys until I see Ky hit the reversal frames and then I press 3S. It doesn't look pretty on the replay but it works! 😅
If it works it works
(I know this is a little older of a video but) For guilty gear specifically you could also do a dash input and have your second dash input your fireball motion.
I didn't know that, interesting
You just revealed to me the way I've been accidentally doing DP when I don't mean to on Chipp. Lol. MANY MANY thanks dude!
Thank you so so much. Now I can do this consistently
Really? Glad it helped, I just made it to give my perspective on it.
Banger video oomfie
Thank you
I usually just mash the dpad 😂 but this us way better, thx
I literally that you can just dp by Forward and 236, last night on street fighter, i was honestly so proud of myself
Nice
With newer players, I just tell them to do go 63236. Basically the same thing that you said, but all the games I've played interpret the down -> up quarter circles as a Z input.
We hitting celestial with this one!
This helps me so much! Thank you 🙏
I make the motion for an electric for z inputs. After years of cranking them out, it's the only way i do it now. F, neutral, down, df
Yep, electric is a Z input which is interesting. My wave dashes got better a while back because I was also playing 2d fighting games like guilty gear and street fighter 6 at the time.
In my case i do 63236, as in a inverted quarter circle foward and then do a normal quarter circle foward, i'm just swinging my thumb.
HOLY SHIT IT WORKS !!!! THANK YOU!!!!!
@@gersonsymona6248 anytime
Liked and subscribed. Wish I discovered you soon. Might have actually tried some more characters.
That notation is more or less how I brute forced my way into getting them consistently lol
Wow, great explanation deserves my like
This actually is quite helpful.
I also do dp the same way, issues with this is: depending on the game you play (ex sf6) your super input is like 2,6,2,6 P, so if you dp from crouching you do
Super accidentally,unless you are very clean at doing 6,2,3 P
This does happen in sf6 and I did have to adjust, it's pretty hard tbh. Thank you for the advice.
@@nozushiiyeah, kinda do super on accident sometimes still hahah. Even with this issue I think is the most consistent way on pad a least
Good to know I'm not the only one that does 6236. The trickiest bit is mastering the timing
I always fucking do wild throw instead of bandit revolver out of a dash by accident. This pretty much explains why
That is exactly why yea lol.
this may feel more natural and faster. Think about most common super input QCF*2.
Just reverse first qcf into qcd. For First qcf, instead of starting from down (d, df, f). Slight your thumb from forward (f, df, d) then Hadoken input.
Honestly, this just messes me up whenever I try to move forward and hadouken. I wiff shoryuken instead and eat the meanest training room combo the opponent can think of
I think it’s a common struggle lowkey. It’s why I always press back really fast before I do a fireball in any game.
Real early 00s gamefaqs hours.
What’s that?
@@nozushii this method of doing a DP was commonly talked about in OG times. things early 00s gamefaqs guides would have this as a suggestion for how to execute a DP.
if you want a trip, go to like, early 00s sfa3 guides, and you'll see people rating moves out of 5 stars, and how much "priority" they have. basically no discussion of the technicalities of hitboxes - they talk about the feel of it, since tool assisted game analysis wasn't even remotely as common back then as it is now
this always manages to screw me over because i always walk forwards and quarter circle and i end up accidentally doing a dp lmao
Yea this happens sometimes yea. It succs but I guess you just have to go back to neutral for a sec before you try and do a fireball, or press back first, which might be better anyway, so you can like dash block or something.
@@nozushii yeah I realised that going back to neutral for about half a second usually does let me do a quarter circle, but holding back can cause some issues though if you're playing a character with overlapping special inputs like Felicia in vsav
ooooh I see@@MorbyLol
My guy literally doing electrics
More like a wavedash
if you are on keyboard and struggle to do that, but quarter circles are easy for you - just do two quarter circles lol
That kinda works until you have a double quarter circle super on your dp button lol. But that's an interesting method, I like it.
@@nozushii yeah, i do that all the time on potemkin's heat knuckle and sol's volcanic viper so that i can be 99% sure the move will come out
bruh thx icould never pull those in ggst if i fail now its a skill issue XD
I just do reverse QCF into normal QCF (so.forward to down to forward).
Works everywhere except tekken.
That is a good method of doing it.
So I'm not the only one who does this? Cool.
THATS FREAKING BIG BRAIN
I've done something akin to this with Sol Badguy for example, as he doesn't have any 236/QCF moves on either S or HS. I'm very out of practice with Strive so it's not as consistent anymore and most cases I perform either 5H, 6HS or 2HS by accident 😅
The wokest way to do the input: 369874123 during stun frames and make sure you hook it into the corner at the end
This is in fact a very clean method. When all else fails just move the stick around.
I been doing this shi on keyboard for almost 4 years bro😅
I usually rub my thumb up my d-pad repeatedly while mashing with my other hand until I do it. You can tell when this method is working because you will have developed a blister if you are using a xbone controller.
Wind God fist
That's exactly what it is.
Playing 2d fighters like street fighter and guilty gear actually made my wave-dash better.
I quickly switch to my joystick and randomly swing it around in one direction and it ussusly works
Oldest trick in the book.
For me, this way of doing DP is really bad, it's so damn inconsistent. Too often, I got a fireball when I tried to do a DP, and got DP when I tried to do a fireball. The problem's gone when I learned how to do the proper way. Kiske airline is now ready to send people to Illyria.
Yea there is some inconsistencies sometimes but I haven’t ran into that issue.
I play on my controller's joystick so they look more like 63236 or a reversed quarter circle forward followed by a normal one.
Electric wind god fist xD
Leverless (6)42 is the easiest way and comes out on frame 3.
The holy z input...
Theres other ways to do z input?
Well this is more of a thought process. Yea there is different ways to see it. In Strive it at least works this way. In a game like Tekken I do think this method works.
Some take the Z input literally, where they press F, DB, D, DF to do how they saw the picture of the Z input or try to press F, DB, DF, because judging from the Z input icon it looks like there is a DB.
But yeah it's just a misleading badly designed icon because the icon actually means exactly how it was done here like F, D, DF.
Tekken has much better input guide for the same exact input that’s never been confusing. ➡️Neutral⬇️↘️➡️.
@@epicon6 Yes but in tekken you aren't allowed to do this. At least with 2D characters. Tekken seems like his it has strict input reader for the 2D characters, so to do dp, I can never do f, d, df, f. I have to perfectly end on df doing a dp because a fire ball would come out instead.
@@nozushii That's because both in Street Fighter and Tekken 2d Akuma, the right input for Dragon Punch is f,neutral,d,df.
@@epicon6 Thank you for the knowledge
I always do 63236 instead of 623
I remember that what i did was revers qc and then qc. And by that i mean was i did 6323
and if your on stick, just do the normal input, you will never get the forward quarter circle input out faster than a pad or a hitbox.
I see, thank you for the advice Pumpkimcoffee. I use pad, but sometimes I would like to use stick as well.
Am i the only one who mistakenly uses this move when using his ranged zap while walking forward
I am actually just unable to dp any other way
Nah you can learn different ways. Everything is just practice.
@@nozushii yeah, but dpad has no diagonal button, so there's just no consistent way to do it (on my pad at least)
@@bloxxerhunt1566 What kind of pad do you have?
This method sadly does not work in sf6 if you were crouch blocking. I keep getting super instead.
It’s a problem I ran into as well so it takes practice in sf6 when you are in crouch.
The tekken wgf method
How did you get the black background? Is it a mod or edited?
I don’t have any above average editing skills I wouldn’t be capable of editing that any time soon if it was possible. It’s a mod on gamebanana. If you play on pc just look up strive black screen mod and install it either manually or with uverum if you are interesting.
@@nozushiithank you! 😊
Yes I as❤
Isnt that how everyone do dp input?
It's pronounced zed
That is a way to say it in different English dialects, thank you for the knowledge, I will keep that in mind.
😴😴😴
So tru, I wish I was more exciting
does this move ⇒⇓⇘? if street fighter we use shortcut like this ⇓⇘⇓⇘ or ⇘⇘