Gear Modifications Part 1
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- Опубліковано 16 вер 2024
- We have another gear in the shop that's similar to one I recently repaired. This one need some work done to the face and two custom bushings made and pressed in. In part one we'll focus on 4 jaw chuck indicating then the parting and boring ops will follow.
#gear #manualmachining #manuallathe
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Never used, ran, or even been in a machine shop but find these vids(?) facinating.
Your skill as a content creator is approaching your skill as a machinist Abom. Great stuff sir!
When Abom indicates the work-piece stays stationary and the universe moves
It just wouldn't be Saturday night without my Abom79 fix!
Man, watching your videos of you Indicating parts like that has helped me out BIG time when doing qualifying ops. Your explanations are fantastic.
three generations… we see it here:
watching Adam snug down the Work in the jaws…. is art, and yet he was not satisfied and went to clean up the part. THEN Zero it…. Art… pure art. thank you sir.
It amazes me every time he does it! He's truly got a full understanding of all parameters involved in getting something that concentric. The thousands of times he's done this really shows.
@@goose300183 ...HE'S HAD AN AWFUL LOT OF PRACTICE!!!
I like your very clear recording with good lighting and very clear sound. Thanks Adam for your channel.
THat's never ever been an issue with me with anyone BUT the guy who repairs old Jeeps in Connecticut. 5 years later, still out of focus. I just couldn't hack it.
Anyone else watch Curtis from cutting edge engineering?
Yes CEE is a great channel. Kurtis is all business and very knowledgeable. Love he works on heavy equipment
...it's where you go to see what Adam used to do at Motion...
Yep sure do... I really think that Adam and the wife should go visit him the wife and homeless some day.... I feel they have a lot in common and compatible personalities
Thanks for explaining to us non machinists what you are doing and why. Your videos are excellent and are just getting better. Thank you.
Repeat customers means the man knows what he is doing. Good job Adam.🙂
I love to see the videos where you step by step with no step skipped on how to do these operations. Even though I've been watching for a long time and this is pretty much how I learned to machine.
This video is one of the best for showing the centering of a part. That bushing was way wobbly and you can clearly see it get better with each adjustment. Nice work
Very cool repair... looking forward for the bushing turning/boring.
To me the most mind-blowing is how much material you can remove in one pass... wow!
I love cutting cast, it comes up so well. Many thanks again for the wonderful videos Adam.
I wouldnt have resisted the temptation to skim true the OD of the centre casting.
I hear you, Nigel. Even if that hub OD has no bearing on the operation, just seeing it wobbling along would make me want to fix it. But as long as the ID is concentric with the OD of the gear teeth it becomes an aesthetic thing at that point.
@@michaelscott8226 ...EXCEPT IT CONTRIBUTES TO THE IMBALANCE OF THE GEAR, AND RESULTS IN INCREASED VIBRATION-!!!
@@michaelscott8226 hi.
If the RPM is minimal and the unit maxx is high then perhaps the eccentricity is aesythetic but thats unlikely to be the case and the out of dynamic balance
@@michaelscott8226 cont.
The cast ion is heavy. The reciprocating unbalanced mass will be shaking trying to desyroy every art of the machine. The out of balance will wear bearings & bushings until the flywheel teeth wear. Probably the wear wont be synchronous so it will propogate the wear around the circumference of the teeth.
So much easier and cheeper and more professional to do the job properly the first time.
@@N1gel You guys are seriously wack. Abom is running a business, and the contract on this job is to machine it to customer provided dimensions. That handful of ounces of cast on that out of round gear is miniscule compared to the total mass of the gear.
Further, its right next to the shaft, where its speed is slowest, incurring the least amount of centrifugal mass affect.
Your claim of 'reciprocating unbalanced mass' is simply a BS word salad devoid of any meaning or context in this situation.
At the low-med speed this rough gear is going to be run at, its going to live a long, long time with the excellently machine bushings Abom has made, assuming basic maint. is done.
I would expect this gear/bushing would shrug off even med-high RPM work without a sweat.
There is a reason some people, like Abom have a career and make a living doing this work, and others either watch on YT or play in the garage where the additional work/time/$$ fixing stuff like this all day is a non-income impacting imperative/OCD issue.
I enjoyed the video Adam. The level of detail in your explanations is helpful. Thanks!
You take me back to when i got started. Took me 2 hours to do a proper setup. Now 5 years later it takes me 15minutes.
Man, I love to see that Monarch just blowing through stock like it's tissue paper. That old machine is a treasure! :)
It is videos like this which bring me back to the channel. I'm completely bored with "machine of the week" videos, but watching Adam dial in that gear was very entertaining.
Most critical of steps is indicating. If that is off, then everything else will be off. The more time you spend on indicating the more precise the rest of work will be. I'm not a machinist, but to me that seems to be the most important. I'm learning Adam. Thanks for all you share.
you'd be correct, a proper setup can be far more difficult than the rest of the repair.
I for one really appreciate the time you take explaining everything. My dad taught me the basics of machining when I was in my teens and then I was away from it for 40 years. Your patience in explaining all the aspects is really helping bring it back to pass on to my kids. We can't afford to lose the manual machining skills you are passing on. My youngest is Magna Cum Laude in Mechanical Engineering, but what got them their job is they understood machining and could use the lathes and mills; they didn't just understand the numbers and theory. Their employer said that was unheard of in a kid coming out of college.
The shot of both indicators working at once was priceless. Thanks Adam.
When your horizontal and your perpendicular are not "the same" on all the surfaces but your experience makes the part better than OEM and it comes out like a champ yet again. Also when your one part is so essential it's like solid gold irreplaceable and you're the go to machinist to make it right again.
Always thinking back to the times when these things where still made here..
Being someone that is soon to buy my first lathe and begin my machining experience, your videos are a true pleasure to watch.
That you for taking the time to explain your processes.
I think Adam is addicted to indicating
He's allway looking for that high
Repeat customers are always welcome! Nice one Adam!!👊👍🤙
Just like they taught me in High School metal shop, LOL ! I think they were using Logan lathes back then.
Who else loves Adam’s videos but has no intention of ever doing any machining?
His videos are awesome. I'm a machinest and only wished I had all the knowledge he's had. His videos teach me something everytime.
I'm a carpenter and joiner I've been watching his vids since 2016and enjoyed every 1
Me 😀
🙋♀️
If you enjoy these videos, then check out 'Cutting Edge Engineering'. Aussie machine shop, but absolutely fantastic content 👌👌👌
Love watching you set projects up in the 4-Jaw. Thanks very mush for sharing.
Love watching you work, Adam. Always learn something new. Thanks for all you do!
one of those setup that is just as aggravating as doing the whole rest of the job! Ive had several parts that took longer to set up than to actually do the machining, but its either right or scrap and we take the time to do a proper setup no matter what. Aint no telling what that gear would cost to make from scratch.
yeah, he really should have turned the outside of the hub and dialed in the center bore after removing the bushing, this would have left a reference surface for later changes and repairs
In your line of work you really have to know your math. Love watching you work up close Adam on parts
Hey Adam.
I’m guessing you didn’t show file chamfering the edge of the eccentric cast boss because of all the people that would call out “it’s dangerous!” 🙄🙄
If only they used a lathe they would know just how often we have to do that! 🤣
I have to say that eccentric boss was playing hell with my OCD, I realise as a customer job you can’t charge for machining it, but if it were mine for one of my machines it would have been turned true by the time I finished! 🤣
Keep up the good work! 👍
Machining that eccentric hub true is good working practice and would have taken ten minutes at the most. Looks terrible wobbling like that.
@@ellieprice363
You’re not wrong, but some customers get arsey about unsolicited machining work! 🤷♂️
@@grahamstretch6863 ...AW, THERE'S NO PLEASING SOME PEOPLE-!!!
@@ellieprice363 ...I THOUGHT SO TOO-!!!
...WHAT ARE THEY GONNA DO? "FILE" A COMPLAINT?!!
(get it? get it? get it? get it? "FILE" a complaint-?!
snucker-snucker-snucker-snucker snucker-snucker-snucker-snucker!!)
Adam,
you have a tendency to say these "fixes" or jobs are a simple matter... I am an electrical Engineer and my wife has reminded me many times this work is "simple" for you because you are very good at your profession... much like electronic are easy for me...... So I understand you consider this a simple job.. but for those of us that are not professional Machinists, we love these video's because we think they are fairly hard to do and you make them look easy... so never marginalize what you do by saying its simple... because for most of us ... its not even close to being simple. Thanks for all the Videos.
Pay no attention to the spammers.
Thank you Adam for taking the time to show us your technique for centering, again craftsmanship at its very best.
Still the best machining content on UA-cam...
Good machinist, without a doubt, but there is better channels for video content
Always love your videos. Can't wait for part 2. Hope u have a great day
Jesus! At first I thought that gear was sitting on the floor, and it looked 5 feet tall. Then he touched it, and my brain didn't understand what was going on :D.
Still using that double ended knocker. Glad to see you're getting good use out of it . Working on some a little smaller.
...how does THAT strike ya?!!
Reminds me of the old days back in the paper mill… great job 🇺🇸
Enjoyed the video. Interesting and informative, as usual.
Thou , thou and a half. Close enough! Love it.
Have learned from your channel about indicators and stuff. Has helped me with truing mx bike cranks 🔧🔧🏁
Always a good show listening to the numbers fascinates me.
That looks like a useful piece of cast iron, you parted off there.
Well and masterfully done.
What a pleasure to watch your videos! Relaxing and informative...thank you.👍
Most interesting how you snuck up on it. Nice job, Sir
Exactly my thought that the old bushing was either done "good enough" or to a low qc.
Pretty dam good job if I do say so there sir of showing the oldest of machining, working a set up and explaining how to get it true. Then it proves out so darn close.
A master class level there Adam.
One thing I've always noticed is that the explanations of how you know it is high or low are a bit lacking sometimes, could be just done so fast too.
Today how you showed to only be concerned with the levels across being identical to constitute a true plane. I would like to see the indicator down in the bore more too just for the sake of really knowing was the bushing inconsistent or possibly the bore not being perfectly perpendicular to the face of the gear.
Great content.
16:49..."parting is such sweet sorrow(?)"
Great video,will be waiting patiently for pt. 2🤗😎🤗😎
You could tell the bushing was slightly out of concentric, as you cut it out, by the fact one side of the removed bushing still had a bit of wall left.
...THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT, TOO-!!!
I guess the gear does not spin fast enough to worry about balance. When it comes to indicating Abom is the bomb.
All part features must refer to a gear's pitch cylinder. Whenever I had to modify a gear, I compared the bore concentricity to the pitch dia as a final check. I used a dowel pin or a drill shank near the best wire size for the gear pitch. Laid it in the tooth space and checked it with the indicator. About 5% of the time I found enough concentricity error I felt it necessary to dial in to the gear's PD.
A couple thou PD eccentricity is OK for most low speed power transmission. Any more than that and the cyclic gear noise (wow-wow-wow etc) becomes apparent even to a tin-eared real estate broker or house painter.
Anyway, not a big deal, but a quick and prudent cross-check that might forestall an awkward question from a customer suddenly grown skeptical.
You're one of the few people to have made a cogent argument in this thread.
However, you have to include some other factors to be complete.
1. Customer is jury-rigging this gear to fit into their existing production.
They have asked for specific work to be done, to their specifications.
2. Abom could do that additional work, on this part and every other parts that comes into his shop. Add it up, and thats quite a lot of work that is being done for basically free. Or more accurately, his 40 hour work week is now maybe 35, 33, 30 billable hours due to this additional work.
3. One would assume Abom is a reputable jobsman, and either discussed this with the customer beforehand, or would being it up upon discovery.
Either the customer didn't want to add to the bill for the additional work, or Abom hasn't brought it up as he doesn't believe it will impact the function this part is expected to perform.
The customer in this case already has an expert who's found a gear that they're going to 'make work'. Customer can be as sceptical as they want, however if push comes to shove, Abom can take the part, and show the measurements directly off it to the customer sceptical face.
Almost every job in every industry have checks and doublechecks ad infinitum for every repair, or replacement, or troubleshooting of basically everything.
If the gear was brought in obviously warped, I'd expect Abom would point that out immediately. If found warped upon start of work, same same.
Checking the bore concentricity to the teeth is extra work, which is either going to be billed, or done for free.
He got down to the machine bore without touching it.
It appears to have been pulled from a working piece of equipment.
For the additional time to add to the bill to do this check, and similar checks that he could do to every other part/order that comes into his shop, at what point do you stop?
If he were to do all the checks that people here seem to demand, or suggest so as to be 'professional', he'd probably have to raise all his job order billables 10-20%.
He could do what you suggest, and he could also clean up that out of round bore OD, and a half dozen other things that would make that part a gleaming beauty.
And if he were to quote that, the customer would say thanks and go down to the other machine shop where they'll simply do what is asked and have a reasonable bill.
@@boots7859 You're correct in the time element but allow me to point out the first PD check takes about a minute using a suitable drill or tap shank from your tool box. If the PD is wonky it's decision/call the customer time. Regardless, dialing the last few thou to a pin in a tooth space aint rocket science: with a little practice, it goes about as quick as a tweak to a continuous diameter.
I think I pointed out the check was optional but prudent. Every customer is worth a free minute. He IS hiring your skill and judgement along with your mere ability to perform basic functions on a lathe. It boils down to judgement anyway. I'm not suggesting aerospace QA on every piece off 60 year old farm equipment
The bore is spot on and only the outside of the hob wobbles due to a casting not turned down but ground in general down. Nothing precision in hub. The very nominal slop if any in the gear face will be taken up in the meshing of the gears. Gears are not bottomed out and have room to wiggle if needed under load or a chunk of junk drops in and out while in operation.
In fact I think the junk will be like 90% of the lubricant on those teeth and maybe even help reduce noise
Maravilha de trabalho, acompanhando sempre que possível!!!
Abraço daqui do Brasil a todos aí!!!
Knowing that is a cast gear I'm surprised they didn't want you to true it up that is if you found it not to be there's shouldn't be any wobble on the shaft but getting the extra weight off it could extend the life of the bearings in my opinion.
...I THOUGHT SO TOO-!!!
What had me more worried was if the teeth were machined according to the bore. The runout in the casting looked wildly off and I find it strange that they wouldn't have tried to center the mass a little better...
Runout is in the hub, probably pattern error. I doubt this item would have worked with non-concentric machining.
Remember, Adam indicated off the bushing bore. A worn part.
I would have pulled the bushings before any machine work. Indicate off the hub plane and bore, then measure runout measured over pins. Having a mating gear would also help.
@@keithjurena9319 It seems that you have gone directly to the machining part without listening to the explanations ;-) there was no wear on the bushings, it was a brand new gear that they need to adapt to replace a different model that is no longer manufactured.
Since he didn't touch the original cast iron bore when pressing in the new bushings they will as good as the old ones were from factory.
The customer also wants flanged bushings, if it wasn't for that the originals would have been fine.
Zero shits given at manufacturing time. "Who cares where your center is, we have the means to MAKE you run true (never mind what the entire rest of the wheel does)".
Great job, Adam. Have you had a chance to look into why the Monarch was acting up on the threading for the American Pacemaker compound lead screw?
...I SUSPECT THAT THE PROBLEM WAS BECAUSE THE MONARCH IS AN OLD MACHINE, AND ACME THREADS ARE MORE CRITICAL THAN VEE THREADS-(?)
Great video! Ever thought about marking the diameter of the circles on the chuck as an instant reference? Love watching all of the content. There is something relaxing about theses videos!
Great tips on centering up in the four jaw Adam. Been a while since I been back,,hello to Abbie as well. Bear.
Only thing I would have done different is would have cut the out part to round, one for looks the other if I had to re-chuck would have a machine surface to work with! But great job!
Same. Would make any future repairs a breeze, cause I can guarantee that bushing will be toast and they'll be boring that hub out at some point.
Another great class by you
The outer surface of the hub being non-concentric would irritate the snot out of me. I guess balance isn't really a specification required for this job, so I'm glad I don't have to deal with it LOL
Problem is, THE WHOLE GEAR is running out like crazy - including the outer diameter of the spokes, the inner part of the rim, etc. (see around 17:00). It was machined with a large runout back when they cut the teeth (which are presumably only running out 3 thou or so, just as the original bore does). So yeah maybe you could "fix" the hub, but the whole rest of the gear would still be running out like mad, even while the teeth and hub ran true...
Love that monarch!
Wouldnt you want to true up/indicate the gear teeth, then true up the center? Looks like the teeth are not true with what is now the center. Gonna have some slight gear resonance while its in operation.
The gear teeth are (supposed to be) concentric to the center bore, so it doesn't matter if you measure deviations on the inside or the outside. In theory at least, given that the bushing was factory new and the teeth likely have wear, as well as the ease to indicate the flat bore instead of the bumpy teeth, it's better to indicate the bore.
(I guess the comment was sent before Adam mentioned that the center bore was not touched, he just removed the bushing without machining the original surface)
You could sell the parted off ring as merchandise. 🤷🏻♂️
It was a very nice drop. I'm sure it will get used for something, somewhere down the road.
I hope the hub bore turns out to be concentric with the teeth…
Entertaining as always, thanks Adam!!
The cut off piece would make a good paper weight and gift from the channel.
The OCD in me, would want to true up the OD, of the centre hub. 😊
It is not OCD. It is CDO, which is in alphabetical order like it is supposed to be...
@@RolfMikkelson 🤣
I'll bet he gets there in Part II
I agree, my obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD) would cause me to want to machine that out-of-round cast hub.
That OD running oblong is really messing with my OCD, please true it up…😂😂😂
Thanks for sharing! Great information and insight!
Educational video.
How should indicating concentricity over the teeth of the OD look like? Is it even possible?
Thanks for showing Your work.
If you have heavy masking tape it works well to allow you to indicate the tops of the gear teeth without the indicator falling in. That usually good enough but if you need ultra accuracy you use dowel pins between the teeth and indicate them.
Always learn something from your videos. That bore being off by 0.003 or so would likely have put me in trouble bc I would have tried to "fix it" and ended up maybe messing up the gear and the way it runs in the machine it fits. I've done it before - going ahead w/o thinking all of the ops through and had to remake parts. No remaking a customer supplied part but I know you could get out of trouble a lot faster than I could!
Great video. Always warms my heart seeing you with your Father and Grandfather! Their influence has allowed you to likely go beyond even their skills. I'm sure you learned a ton from those 2 gentlemen!
Just curious ... Why didn't you use your bullnose center to help align at the beginning and save yourself tons of time ...??
Yay, this time they cleaned it ^^
always makes me kinda sad to hear the music come on at the tail end…means the vid is over 🥺
Thanks for sharing 👍
14:20 damn I love the sound of that lathe
What's the plan, keep both shops? Figured worth the new shop, you'd be moving
Makes me a little nuts seeing that gear wobble.
Yeah I would be so tempted to clean them up to run concentric..
Who else thought that gear was huge until his hand was shown?
Yes! I thought it was sitting on the floor for some reason.
Yep. I was thinking that Adam would be working on some big iron again. It was somewhat disappointing when it turned out to be so small. But I still love how he got the rim and bore aligned so well in the chuck. Before he started the iterative gauging steps, it looked like the rim was warped.
ADAM, GREAT VIDEO, LET'S GO TO WORK...
@ᴀʙᴏᴍ79 GREAT JOB...
Leaving the original machining. If it ain't broke... 😁
Only thing I would have done is make that wobble in the casting vanish, so there is at least a true surface to clamp the gear the other way, to do the other face if needed.
Fantastic Adam......
Curious how your deciphering which jobs go to the new shop and which jobs like this you’re keeping on the existing equipment? I know you don’t have all of your necessary tools, machinery and equipment over there yet, but was just kinda curious. Keep up the awesome work, great to see you becoming so successful with your endeavors!
PS. Love watching that indicating. Amazing! I still scratch my head and have to think about it every time. Given I’m less than a year of having my equipment and learning this trade. Machining and machine tools has been something I’ve been interested in for as long as I can remember and for a person with perfectionist OCD, machining is a dream come true. You inspired me to finally go out and buy a mill and lathe. I have a composites company and it’s amazing how useful these tools can be for all kinds of different processes. The thing I love the most is the accuracy. Sure I can measure and drill holes with a regular handheld drill, but my OCD doesn’t like that very much so knowing everything is as exact as I can get it is quite satisfying.
This job it was specifically because he needed a 4 jaw chuck to independently indicate the gear center and only his monarch is currently set up to have one, I know he has a 4 jaw, 3 jaw, and collet chuck for the Victor lathe but he rarely uses those ever since he put that 6 jaw chuck on it. I know he has a 4 jaw for the Pacemaker in the new shop but he's not done fixing the cross slide, once that's done there shouldn't be anything he can't do at the new shop.
@@bdkj3e Very good points. I kinda put all that together after realizing the entire scope of the job and the use of the 4 jaw obviously. Is this even something you would want to do on the Pacemaker instead of the Monarch given the size? Forgive me I’m still learning. I just purchased my first lathe and mill about a year ago. Thank you!
Thanks for sharing enjoyed
Thanks for sharing
Any updates on that land you purchased? Looking forward to the building project.
I'm a little surprised that You din't indicate on the teeth.
And also machine the outside diameter to get a future aligned clamping face
Nice Job
do you ever indicate on the teeth to get the gear perfectly centered in the jaws? or do you just rely on the factory bore to be centered with the outside surface of the teeth??
Cool 😎 work
Love your videos. Always fascinating to see how things are done. I'm curious why lining up the center can't be done using a cone on the gizmo that holds drills and such. I'm not a machinist but I watch you, Cutting Edge Engineering and others because someday I'd love to have a home shop. - Joe in Seattle 😁🤙
That would get you close, but indicators are a machinists Teddy bear. They wouldn't feel right without it.
@@leftyeh6495 Indicators = eyes, but really accurate ones.
Another lefty!
Good job
Adam you are a true machinist. You do awesome work.
...THAT'S THE TRUTH-!!!
Oh no Batman there's a part 2
After the problem with acme threading that lead screw will you be doing a service on the monarch ?