70 Ton Friction Press Shaft Part 1 : Rough Turning
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- This will be a multi-part video about a shaft I machined for Blacksmith Tools. This shaft is for a 70 ton friction press Andrew is working on. The original shaft got bent during it's move so it needed to be replaced. In this video we'll get it all roughed in using our Precision Matthews TL-1660 manual lathe. The next video will show getting the shaft finished to size including the threaded sections. Last video will show the keyways being machined.
#abom79 #manualmachining #lathe
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This is the classic Abom79 video. A long shaft, journals, keys, threads, all the elements of a true Adam Booth machining video.
A bread n butter special 🙂
In sweden you would get fired on the spot if you did what a79 did. Safety will always be #1.
And yet people will still bitch in the comments...
Mr.Sycho, what was done unsafe?
@@edwardkawecki8101 The lathe hasn't been leveled to within 1/10 thou (just like he did with the counter weight on his Kubota). Obviously not safe.
This may sound like a silly suggestion, but for those of us who have no legit training with stuff like this, can you do a video that covers your process that you use to clean up at each end of the day? I know it may seem boring to lots of people, but I think it's also one of those sort of questions that nobody asks but many wonder about.
Among those things, it would also be interesting to know what you do with all your swarf.
13:50 The people who complain about you sharing the process of indicating seem like the same sort who would complain when Bob Ross paints another happy little tree in his masterpieces (missing the point entirely). Thanks for sharing your craft with us, sir. It's inspiring to see an artist at play.
Bob Ross always repeated every sentance
And yet everyone loved watching him paint, and still does to this day
@@Abom79 Bob was great. Bob was great.
Did that button you pressed into the end flair the end of the taper just hair perhaps? Just enough to unseat the the small end and reduce the contact area.
Oooo, that'll do it.
I predominantly listen to your vids and MAN that new shop is quiet. No sirens, road noise, Dodge Chargers, etc. It must be a dream for you!
Just occured to me that Fireball should offer a laser etcihing option on those tables. A couple of full-length scales across the top would be handy.
For me the most comfortable way to measure a shaft like that would be to get out the ol' 61"-62" micrometer and measure it (I don't trust v blocks on a table like that so I would hold the shaft in one hand and the mic in the other)
Yes that's the way to go for sure😁
Put the centre in your lathe and run an indicator along it while its spinning. If the needle isn't bouncing at any point along the length then check the tapper angle. Maybe the piece you pressed in caused a slight deformation in the taper
I’ve always wanted to see how I’d do centering something in a 4 jaw. You make it look easy but I bet it would take me the better part of an afternoon to get it done 😜
Don't hurry and it will come to you, it's not hard to do at all.
It takes a while at first but it's a fun Challenge and before you know it you'll be doing it in no time
I've also found that his indicator in front technique is just a little trickier. I always set it up on top and just adjust the top jaw.
Coat the live center's shaft in dykem and insert it into your talestock to see where it is touching. The plug you pressed into it might have bulged the end of the taper preventing it from seating.
I'd use Prussian Blue, but I think we all are thinking along the same lines.
I think you threw of your taper off when you pressed in your plug on the tmx center. Check you contact with Prussian blue I bet it’s heavy contact at the small end.
Good call. Probably wobbling a bit on that one spot now.
Holey table Batman!
Good ole Aboms machining. That's why we are here! Its always a pleasure to watch you work with the 4 jaw. Any chance you would put some of those insert numbers in the description or link them in your store? Thanks again!!
Did the morse taper maybe deform from you pressing the extension plug in?
Awesome! Thanks for the Friday afternoon video, it goes perfect with a Friday CEE video!
this comment isn't just for Adam its for anyone doing longer skinnier shafting.
if you need precision you should really be checking the deflection of the steady when you set it up. a job this long will have a small sag to the middle. so just touching the rollers to it will have it a little low. putting your DTI magnetized to the job and indicating against the chuck you will see how much the shaft is being moved by the steady. example if the back roller is a little high and front a little low all 3 will still be making contact but the shaft will be pushed slightly forwards meaning you will cut a slight taper to your workpiece, the same as if the tailstock were misaligned.
also any vibration on the steady will be amplified in the cut. so be sure to get a better surface finish than you need on the bearing surface also be sure to oil the bearing if it galls the shaft it will quickly ruin your whole weekend.
That is good to know as i am new to all of this.
When you mention indicating against the chuck, will that show sag when you turn it from top to bottom?
Was actually just thinking about the indicating. Hopefully taking some classes in the fall(!!), but right now I mostly watch for entertainment. The indicating makes the process feel complete. It's kind of silly but I feel like I want to "make sure" the part is going to come out to spec along with you. 🤣😁 If the classes work out I'm sure it will be even more helpful when I try to do this myself. Enjoying the videos as always.
Well another peaceful breakfast watching Mr Abom79 work his excellent magic, while enjoying 3 eggs sunny side up and a garlic knot. Love ur knowledge and skill.
14:39 When I was at the power plant (on construction and assembly) Part of my job as running this tired old lathe :) .. I put the 4 jaw on it the first job I did, and never took it off :) ... It also kept almost anyone else from using the lathe :)
:) 😀
I subscribed back when you had very low subscribers. I think less than 100k. I am still here, but I miss your garage shop videos. Super happy that you are on the up and up and got the new shop. However if you were to do an "Old shop thursdays" series I think you would do well and a lot of us long time subscribers would love it. Think on it.
For roughing harder materials like your pre-hardened 4140 or even superalloys, I like to use the Iscar IC chipbreakers. Usually 80 deg geometry (cnmg or wnmg) or even 100 deg (cnmg). For finishing, I like the Kennametal CNGP KC inserts. (CNGP KC5010 is my go-to on Inconel 718)
When I saw those chips flying everywhere I was wondering if you had some kind of plastic shield attachment. Surprised how much better the different insert did.
It really is satisfying watching you indicating and setup a part to work on. It's even more satisfying to practice at home and see how all i've learned from watching your video's is working out really good for me. Thanks for that!!!!
As much as I love watching you machine stuff, do you think this could have been a candidate for flame straightening? Also when you added the tip to your live center did you expand the taper slightly thereby not allowing smooth engagement of the taper??
If that press were mine that shaft would have been straightened then reinstalled, the only reason to replace a bent shaft is if it cracked during manipulation.
You said you "pressed" that little plug into the back of the live center? Is it possible that "expanded" the back section of the actual taper, and so now the taper isn't consistent and is hitting on just that area? I wonder what you would see if you blued the inside of the tailstock and then put that taper in there?
That was my first thought also
New video, yessss! I thoroughly enjoy your content. It's relaxing. Even the intro music.
I love the indicating. That is why I subscribed. That is why I joined Patreon to support this channel. I can _not_ express how much I enjoy seeing every single second of "indicating", in real time. Never ever stop showing _all_ of the indicating. Watch the needle at 14:50. Not a quiver. That is amazing.
19:00 - to help with fine chips going everywhere issue. Collect all empty cans, card board, old shims just anything really that can be cut into a sort of L shape. Put it in with your tool holder, clamp it and manipulate into a position that’ll make the chips follow a curve downward path into the chip pan, you’ll have very minimal chips find their way out of the machine
seems like the ejection stud you put in is too large in diameter, and not letting the live center seat. I had a similar issue in my SB.. It looked like it should fit, and was within the taper , but it needed to be reduced. I'll bet the heat is a result of it not seating and therefore not running true. Or it's too small for that much mass.
Yea the old Adam is back! Boy I can't believe how much I missed these real machining videos. Adams shaft turning experience is amazing. Thank you Mr Booth. Keep them coming.
You do the dialing in so... robotically, it's relaxing to watch, it's like watching a "precision" CNC machine operating. (hint,hint) LOL I remember the big stuff, you always get that part done so well, no matter the size. In 1972, I got to watch the giant ships crankshaft lathe/grinder in a Sasebo, Japan shipyard, it was programmed and run by punch cards. I had tea with the operators in their luxury work station, very formal and proper. None of those guys could do that that work on manual equipment, there was a 70 year old master machinist that ran things, he was an apprentice and worked on the Yamato battleship.
Yes I agree Adam - I love watching indicating 🙂
Great stuff, that FT table is outstanding, I thought you'd chop the sticker end off to keep in your scrap pile 😀
The thing I like the most about his videos is that he is explaining what he is doing. It really makes a difference
Fast forward is there for the impatient. Play is there for those who are along for the whole ride.
I just realised, Abom is not just an awesome machinist, he is also a very good camera operator and video producer. There are no bad or uninteresting camera shots, everything you could wonder about is explained, and it is professionally edited.
Are you trying out sarcasm, satire, or idiocy? Maybe you've a case of SFB?
Anders - I agree! It's pretty obvious he has taken his production seriously over the years, constantly improving.
Maybe you should see about some kind of chip guard that isn't in the way of everything :)
As per Machinery’s Handbook. Step 1, close office door 😉
Adam, I'm just curious why, when you faced the first end of the shaft, you didn't center-drill it when it was already set-up? (I'm a home shop machinist with "not a lot of _practical_ experience," so I'm asking in hopes that I'll learn something that will help me in my shop.) Did you choose to not center-drill the first end at first because you didn't plan on turning between centers or for some other reason? My knee-jerk choice would have been to center-drill both ends and turn between centers on my 111-year-old South Bend lathe, but I assume that's because of the difference of the 111-years, plus the apparent quality/rigidity/size differences between the two lathes.
He just forgot.
Abom79, everyone knows you’re a leading indicator! 🤪
The end of that live centre may have expanded slightly when you pushed that cap in. Give it a coat of blue and see what sort of contact it has in the tail stock.
I was thinking the same thing and thought I’d look to see if anyone else posted that. Your’s was the first one I saw.
Loooove the fireball table!!!!!!!
Seriously! He did wonderful designing that table and I love how he goes through all the features he wanted for it in his video
Machining noob here but I've always found Vertex heavy duty live centers with triple bearings to be good value for money. TIR around 0.005mm if you have the tailstock aligned dead nuts.
Adam you should name one of your 4 jaw chucks "Chuck Norris" 😆
26:32 - I love how you let the shaft rest and de-stress overnight. It’s very considerate of you to let it chill out like that and relax. Did you find a pillow for the head end? 🛏
No, he didn't. But he has another shaft for your tail end.
Psychos is a total AH TROLL !
@@edwardkawecki8101 No need to be a racist.
The old 10 thousands ground eyeball measurement method! It does work. Just expect to be using a magnifier in your later years Adam.
Re. the live center: could you have forced the OD out at the bottom of the taper when you inserted the plug at the end?
Check out the awesome Fireball Tool welding table I just got! I'd be showing it off too if I had one in My shop!
Adam I love your work I am a 72 year old mechanical engineer retired from a plant engineering career I have done it all as a jack of all and master of none from drafting welding matching if I lived in GA I would love to work with you as your apprentice for free just to learn your abilities you are very talented my friend!
Agree wit ya, I can reliably get within 10 thousands with my engineers tape..Stanley tapes what i run. Helps from having to break out the long calipers.
This is going to be an interesting job. My first thought, though, is "Could Keith Fenner straighten this?" I've seen several videos of him straightening marine shafting. Maybe he could look at the old shaft as a backup.
I'm curious if when you pressed the small button piece in, could you have distorted the taper if it wasn't hardened properly? That would be an interesting thing to check out if you get more into the metrology side.
I alway look forwad to your video
If you have a pair of Keith's rollers you can straiten that shaft.
I hope to god he paid shipping insurance. That’s a BIG f up. I awesome to watch Adam fix though!
I miss the videos of you making those huge shafts at your old job
I was told 65 years ago by my Father ..3 jaw chucks are for holding hex stock...I always use a four jaw...Made things easer dialing in a four jaw... mark your chuck with Dykem on # 1 and #2 ...Helps not getting confuse witch jaw you loosen.......Robbie
Abom, I'm surprised and disappointed in you. Part of your last sentence was, "Enough with the tool talk". There's never enough time spent, talking about tools. Is this your marriage telling you that talking about tools has a limited amount of time? I think you should stand in the corner of Snap-on truck and think about what you've been saying to people. 🤣😂🙃
You said you pressed that tip into the end of the live center. Could that have distorted the taper enough to cause problems seating? Have you tried bluing it up to see if there is still good contact? Poor seating could explain some of the vibration issues.
I certainly am part of Team-"show the indicating". It’s very satisfying.
It's awesome and somewhat reassuring to see someone actually DEMONSTRATE how accurate the human eye is using a simple scale and being able to differentiate and resolve 1/64th inch, or for the machinists among us, 0.0156, 0r 156 TEN THOUSANDTHS of an inch.. YES, I can split those hairs THAT fine, just by eye, it just takes a bit of practice, and time on the job.. Awesome stuff. Git it!!
That is the biggest hook rule I have ever seen lol. The one hook rule to rule them all.....
I looked it up (Starrett CH416R-72) and the list price was $1174.00. They made a bigger one, 12 feet (144 inches) and that lists at $6174.00. They no longer make it but they also say they can be contacted for special order.
Man, do I love machine tools and workpieces shining brightly!👍😀
How do you price a job like this?
Muy buen trabajo maestro bendiciones en este día y muchas gracias por sus concejos tan útiles.
I like seeing the indicating, not because i work in machining but because I don't - get to see a craftsman in his trade and i like to see the details.
Send it to Fenner and let him straighten it. We need another collaboration! 🤪
Bet he would get it within 2 thou'🤣
@5:14....This is when I usually kick myself for not cutting it so the label is on the drop section....saves the pain of relabeling stuff and keeping job stock organized.
Just remark it with a paint stick as usual
@@edwardkawecki8101 an obvious, but unnecessary step if I manage to pay attention is all I was getting at 😉👍
Where does Term dead nuts come from?
Furthermore, there's a possibility that the 'nuts' came from 'naughts,' which means 'zero,' so dead nuts could have been dead naughts. In this case, it's also related to 'dead plumb,' a term used in carpentry and nautical measurement that means 'accurate.
Just to give you a hard time :-) I'd have the label on the material on the cutoff chunk to help id it 6 months from now. Wasn't useful as it was turned into dust. Love the long scale Nice indeed.
I was just about to post the very same comment!
adam, how are you marking the journal lengths? dro? sharpie?
It might be useful if once or twice you filmed cleaning up the lathe because -- oh my, that was a mess, and I honestly wouldn't know the best way to clean it myself. I don't know if you're using broom and spray or what. Just curious.
Agree!
Me too. I’m a home shop newbie, and I haven’t used coolant on any of my projects yet because I’m not sure how to get the mess out of the cracks and crevices.
Vacuum
Brush broom shovel magnet vacuum Abby LOL
For me, the setup, indicating and tooling are some of my favorite parts. There are so many ways to approach different situations, seeing some of the thought process is very helpful for me when I approach new projects. Thanks for sharing.
Physics. Gotta take into account bending moment, force of cut, etc, etc, etc. Amazing how well you manage all those variables.
I hate when I'm turning and a guy can't control the Chips properly..stepping on the melted into the boots..sometimes it's unavoidable. Nice shaft job here.. that new machine gives me the fizz.
Ever seen a one jaw chuck? Just been humorous.
That's the best one I've heard in a while.
2 Questions. Why didn't you straighten the shaft either by heat or using a press and have you expanded the taper of the live center by pushing in the insert? Des.
I’d dipped out of UA-cam for a while so have missed a lot. Great to see the new shop up and running. I’m also firmly in the “show the indicating” camp.
Could be worse will stelter's hammer broken half . Awesome job thanks for sharing
You pay attention to the sound of the broken press you will hear The Rolling Stones song Paint it Black.
That follow rest seems a good choise. New stuff is not worse always.
1:02 I don't see any problem, that's called an interrupted bearing in the industry..... :D
What's the advantage of using negative rake inserts if the tool pressure is higher and causes chatter? Edge last longer?
Great to see the new lathe in action with an abom classic shaft machining!
I'm curious , why dont you chuck it like half way and do one side then flip it to do the other side. that way your not machining a long shaft but three "short" ones?
Blending and concentricity, the more you cut at once the better for concentricity
@@billmielke7395 if it’s indicated it’s good though.
@@PhiLBilly_PhilRodgers Absolutely not. Just because it's true at that point, it doesn't mean it's parralel. It could be doing anything up inside the chuck(and definitely will with some whip), and that'll travel down through the jaws. Holding over the ends is the only way to do really dead nuts shaft turning, unless you have a second chuck on the back of the spindle bore like the oil field boys do.
Big stuff (-! Abom79 was the first UA-cam channel where I saw big pieces being machined.
That new lathe is unnaturally quiet, its a true beast...
Reminds me of your all "classic" videos.
Man, I really enjoy watch you indicate. Probably, because I'm not the one doing it. Haha!
Great job so far Adam, looking forward to your next video!! Oh, and I'm glad to see the old faithful on your wrist again, no one actually knows if the last one was american or swiss made. Good choice.👍👍
I'm worried that your hands are very clean? 😂 Love your videos BTW.
How much will cutting the key ways warp the shaft? I always left most shafts fifty thousands or so oversized when cutting major key ways then finishing the bearing journals last.
Checking the live centres and the Morse taper will establish the answer to machine or tool. Blueing is one way, but the other is a comparison of both tapers; the TMX and the Royal. and then the Taper in the tail stock.
What does a "big wobble "look like?! That thing looks like it might reposition itself every time you flip the switch.
Nice video. I like the way you explain about different types of inserts and why you choose one over the other. And I agree with other viewers about the quality of the video production. Top notch!
I think a lot of the talk about inserts is related to product placement.
I think a chip garde would be nice...
It's not nice when the shavings fly everywhere uncontrolled...
Andrteas, Germany
“Stickers don’t smell good when you machine them.” LOL!
Looks like you could use a magnetic floor sweeper (and maybe a hand-held magnetic chip collector).
Awesome setup
Adam, everyone of your vids is a learning experience! Wonderful work as always.
Eric
The TMX brand live centre. Can it be liquid polished to get that extra strong attachment?
I hope nobody comes flying out of your office door when you have long stock in the lathe.
Anyone that goes flying into a machine shop is asking to get hurt. Just saying.
@@v8packard Then, I'll remove the word "flying"... I hope nobody opens the office door, and damages any stock in the lathe.
@@tomgiorgini9154 I agree