Yes, some benefit from less current flowing through those piles of #10 wire, but mostly, with series you give the solar controller more headroom to exercise it's MPPT function. I.e., it starts with a higher voltage and can pull that voltage down relatively further to find a maximum power point that may not be reached when starting with half that voltage and hitting the battery voltage before the maximum power point is reached. This is especially the case when solar energy reaching the panels is lower as in the late afternoon. Under this condition the MPPT function is most productive and can do more with more voltage to work with. The Epever manuls show efficiency curves and those make it clear that the controllers need some headroom for best operation.
Couldn't have said it better myself. I am running the 5KW EPEVER unit on 5.4kW of panels with a string voltage of 185V (max is 200V for my MPPT controller) specifically to keep cost of wiring down, and to give the MPPT lots of headroom to do it's work. Btw if you're curios as to what the diff is between the 150V and 200V MPPT controllers are (I have one of each), it's just the input capacitors are rated for 200V, nothing else is different. That said I was running my 150V model on a 160 OCV string without issue because I always had a load attached so the string voltage never exceeded 150V.
I don't know how big of an impact this really has but hier voltage reduces cable loses, plus less amperage means the controller runs cooler and has less heat loses.
@@gnif I am trying to figure out how to use (3) of the 100a units to charge a 48 volt battery bank (off grid). We would like to have enough power to keep the 2,000 amp hour battery at full charge without the use of a generator (minimal). We have plenty of space to set up solar panels to feed the system. I am looking into purchasing as many LONGi Hi-MO 5 (545 watt panels) as is necessary to accomplish the task. All of the array will be placed on top of a sea container (as much as is possible) for the shortest wire runs into the container for the system. We will be operating a altE Pre-wired Syst, SW4048,CL150, SCP to power our 50 Amp RV while we build an off grid home. Am I way off base thinking this is possible to do?
Higher voltage travels better down smaller cables, the mppt controller can take the higher voltage with lower amps and flip it like a transformer to make lower voltage and higher amps to fill the batteries. I have 6x 110ah gel batteries and an epever triron 40a controller with 6x 130 panels, 3 in series to make 66v and another string of 3 paralleled to double the amps input. My next plan is to go 24v with more batteries and then I can double up on the panel power. Solar power is great, but you need deep pockets to make good power!
Hmm... so then why does voltage drop (resistance) get compensated for by using larger gage cables? This makes no sense. Smaller cables can be used with series panels because the amps are reduced but that is not the same as saying "higher voltage travels down smaller gage better" which is untrue. Voltage drop is factored per foot somewhat linear (like a constant) and changes because of resistance(gage) so using higher voltage makes the percent of voltage drop less yielding more watts remaining at the end of the run.
@@fishhuntadventure Nope, the reverse is true 12 volts is better than 24 volts because of the fact that most campers are using fridges that run a Secom compressor, more amps = more juice 24 volts is half the amps = less juice, you need max juice from your solar controller to power up your energy thirsty compressor load when it starts to spin up. 24 volt systems are bloody expensive and don't cut the mustard, a 24 volt inverter costs around 10X more than a 12 volt , there is simply no justification for one, only trucks and buses utilise 24 volt systems
I have epever 40A too with 12v battery. Two 24v panels in series 340+380 but after two month of 340 addition the mppt recognises one panels show 33v and normal amps. Everyday I disconnect solar wires than mppt show double panels volts 70-75v and produce power from both panels. But next morning same issue 33-35v. Is I oversized my mppt?
You need to check the charts in the controller's manual for where it is most efficient with your combination of solar panel voltage, battery voltage and the solar panel wattage getting to the controller. That can vary from 92 to 98%. I've been running a very small off-grid system using an EPever 3210A controller for about 5 years and I've done a lot of experimenting to learn about solar power. The current system is my "Wait until daylight" backup system because it can run the fridge and furnace for about 12 hours and in 12 hours I should have enough light to get the inverter gen out of the equipment shed (where the mowers & etc. live) and get it going for as long as needed. However, I'd suspect the loss in the wiring from the solar panels is making the difference you see. From my wire loss spreadsheet* (based on wire resistance per foot for whatever gauge wire is being used), two 300 watt panels (an entry I already have in the spreadsheet) delivering 9 amps each for 18 amps at 34 volts loses 2.64% of its power in 50 feet of #10 wire. If the two panels are in series for 9 amps at 68 volts, the loss in the wiring from the panels to the controller is 0.66% - which means you get almost 2% more power from the same equipment because there is less loss in the wiring. 2% of 400 watts is 8 watts so that's a good start on the differences. Try again when you have more sun time and measure the losses in the wiring with the solar panels in parallel and series. And do it with enough load on the batteries to keep the charge controller working hard ;-) I like the EPever controllers because they are built like tanks. I don't expect one to survive a direct lightning strike, but they do handle near-by strikes (150 feet away, a neighbor lost his fiber internet connection) and tripped a breaker in the breaker panel. The RS485-USB adapter I use so I can monitor the controller remotely (ancient laptop running Win 7 + the EPever SOLAR software, and using the free UltraViewer to access it remotely) died that day but the controller is still working fine. I expect to replace 2 to 4 of the RS485-USB dongles each year - and I have a bag of them near the monitoring laptop. Having the big heat sinks instead of a fan means the EPever controllers just keep working in the heat and don't die from fan failure. * Send me a message if you want a link to that spreadsheet.
We have a 4210 controller. Consistent higher wattage with higher voltage. Not just that it produces earlier, but consistent through out the day. No problem with high temps
Closer to the max V of CC is best but relative to Max wattage which you achieve stringing panels together in series. Then Tie the strings together in parallel to achieve Max Amps.
I maxed out 2 midnight classics. Side by side charging the same battery Bank with the exact same number of panels. It was a 24 volt system. One had all panels in parallel and the other had two panels in series. The one that was ran all in parallel ran warm and harvested more kilowatt hours before reaching absorb. The one in series parallel runs hot enough to burn my hand and started charging earlier in the morning but it didn't take long for the other one to pass it by. They've been set up like this for 4 years now.
Oh good data! Goes along with Goatzila where it could be cabling losses I was seeing! I’ll be out there again soon, will just need some good weather to test.
@@BeeneEnergy true. The difference between your test and mine is that you doubled up the amperage through one cable and connection point. In my instance each parallel panel had its own cable so there should be no resistance differences in my circuit between the two.
@@BeeneEnergy my conclusion is always go with the highest panel voltage the charge controller specs allow in regards to battery voltage. Otherwise it will simply overheat. Avoiding all the extra breakers and cables is worth the occasional charge controller or fan replacement.
There are many factors that can contribute. If you halve the current by going in series, then you reduce the cable losses to a quarter of what they were. But there are also factors in the MPPT converter. Does it run better at higher voltages? Some do. And the MPPT algorithm might work better at high voltages too.
That Changes if you shade one, but the higher the volts the better they work because you are not in the best mppt range at the lower voltage, I’ve seen it on the Powmr also.
Lower impedance ohms law I run mine near the max voltage works great with a single 12V LifeP04 battery runs a small 5000 btu AC unit all day and night with two 265-watt panels I bought used. I set the temp to 88F I'm only wanting to keep a shed cooler for our Halloween decorations, so the plastic doesn't crack. Where I live Arizona we see 117F annually. I haven't gone through the summer yet with it I may have to add another battery we will see.
I'm not surprised. I'm kind of guessing it was all cabling losses, including the cabling/traces inside the charger itself. Plus the branch connector's not free either. You literally cut the current in half. The fun thing to do would be to look at everything with a thermal camera to try to see where the energy gets wasted.
series panels are higher voltage than the same in parallel. since voltage drop is a relationship of volts loss per foot, series panels at twice the voltage will have less voltage drop for the same cable length as parallel by half, all else being equal. There is no magic happening.
Very cool video 👍. I'm still learning, but you explained it well. Can you overpower the epevers Tracer series controllers? I've got 3 x 150w solar panels connected to a 30a controller
These solar converters use a buck converter circuit, which can be very efficient for a wide range of input voltages. Note that this is nothing to do with MPPT tracking, which attempts to change the impedance seen by the panels for maximum power extraction, and should work well over a large range of voltages. Also, series panels halve the current in your case, which reduces the resistive losses (I^2 R) by a factor of 4.
Epever seems to have some built in software/hardware conversion. I have noticed that my Epever will convert excess volts into amps. Usually when your volts are double your battery bank rating the conversion into amps is at its greatest.
Pannels in parralel, especialy when more than 3, pose a significant fire danger. If you are going to do it, I would fuse each and every pannel in parallel for safety's sake.
The higher the amps the more resistive the wire is. That's why you need thick wire for high amps, where as you can run 25000 volts through a single strand of wire at 0.5 amps with no loss. But put 12 volts at 100 amp through the same wire and melt the wire instantly.
I have 60 cell 220 w solar panels. So similar to this setup, except I have 3 200ah batteries (wired in parallel) so if I understand correctly (12v system) I can max use 2 panels?
There is nothing like parralel is better or worse, it depend on what you have as charge controller and what/how it handles it. Each controller got an efficiency that change depending on the voltage...
If you treat each panel as 12 series makes the panels equal 24 bat set up from what I've come to understand the mppt can support an 48 solar array set up so if you use it in conjunction with 12 24 36 48 set ups it's equivalent to those unknowns your asking.
in an ideal scenario of sun exposure (tilt angle, no shadows), and if you have a solar panel which is made for 12v system (~50-200w, 18v Open voltage, ~12-14v at typical amperage), a PWM controller is actually more efficient than messing around with MPPT. its impossible for a lot of people to admit since people spend so much money on MPPT systems that they have been told by someone very well informed will boost their panels efficiency. if you have a solar system that is almost perfectly spec'd for your battery, the MPP will naturally be around the ideal charging voltage at ideal amp draw of your battery system. and if that case is true the most optimal setup is actually to wire the solar panel directly to the battery. million reasons why you should never do this, but it might be worth testing just to show how its better than the most expensive MPPT controller in the world. a pwm is basically the same thing with a somewhat smart oscillating switch. if the battery is pretty low state of charge but still almost nominal voltage, like how most lithium chemistrys work (compared to lead/sodium), then the PWM controller will have a ~100% duty cycle and beside the tiny loss from the pwm controller itself, it will be the same as directly wiring to the battery with a safety swtich.
I have a few 350 w 24 v panels if I run them in parallel would the charge controller even recognize that low of a voltage ? The always include the max voltage of the charge controller but it’s hard to find the minimum voltage This will gauge what size controller I buy since a 100 amp controller may have a higher minimum than a 40 amp controller
Hard to say if they don't publish it. Generally speaking the vmp of the panel needs to be a few volts higher than the max voltage the battery will ever be for any charge controller to operate correctly. I like to bump up close to the max voltage of the controller as that allows bypass diodes to operate correctly and generally less/smaller wire from the array to the controller. Keeping in mind that as the temperature drops the voltage rises on the panel so here in north Texas I keep the voc of the panels about 90% of the max of the charge controller.
I think they are trying to avoid layman issues, and not confuse them with fancy panel layouts and wiring diagrams. I mean everything’s simpler when it’s set up in parallel. Series really confuses a lot of people.
no, there is a voltage range in which the mppt algorithm processes more efficiently and that is more likely what they are saying. Additionally, "wear" on the mosfets is higher over time for a higher voltage which affects lifespan. sortofa expected duty cycle related to heat.
I just bought an EPEVER 80A (8415AN model) and it is running default settings. If I want to connect 3 or 4 panels in series and connect a 24v or 48v battery array, do I need to make any manual changes for this to work or will it work as Plug N Play?
how to set the control parameters EPEVER? Which entries do I have to make for OverVoltDisconnect, OverVoltDeconnect, BoostChargingVolt, FloatChargingVolt, BoostReconChardVolt LowVoltReconnectVolt. I have 16s 3.2V 48V Lifepo4 200A = 10kW
When the panels are connected in series, the current is 2 times less, therefore, there are less losses. Plus, the MPPT controller works like a transformer (figuratively), it converts high voltage with a small current into a low voltage of 14.2 V but with a large current.
beene i have the same question , my epever controller 12 volts battery max is 520 watt and 24 volts battery is1020 watts. do you think i can set up two 540 watts in series ?
I have 40A epever at 12v it support 520watt used 330 watt two panels in series it worked fine. Later bought 380watt later sold. Now 340+380 connected in series and it’s reached to 38-39Amps. But from 4,5 days it’s show power of one panel. 33v instead of 70-75v and 200watt instead of 400watt. Epever says you have exceed the limit
Hey dear I am facing power dropping issue in series connection. I have connected 340watt and 380watt solar panels in series to epever 40A mppt controller with 12v battery. It show power of one panel when I disconnect solar connector and reconnect, the mppt show both Panels. It’s hard to do this every morning. It was fine in winter but now summer starting and facing this issue. Using both panels form 2 months. after wire disconnect and reconnect the voltage jump from 33-36 to 75v. If something wrong with one solar panel then it should not work after replugging mc4 or solar wire in the mppt after that It work whole day but same issue next morning Both panels volts amps are little different. Tesla 34.51v maxpower 33.18v. Tesla amps 11.01amps maxpower 10.29amps.
Does one panel have some shading in the morning? I’ve heard of mppt tracking being lazy by not trying for a higher voltage even after the shade goes away. Middle of the day try putting a blanket on one panel so voltage drops. Then pull the blanket off and see if it replicates your morning issue.
@@BeeneEnergy there is no shade and did the blanket trick still shown one panel. But only connect disconnect works. Which is hard to do everyday to get power from both panels. or I have to install dc breaker to on off daily. Today one panel is connected to mppt and it working fine
@@BeeneEnergy I put on one and then both panels it reduced volts to 16v and went back to 33v not 70-75v. mppt didn’t jumped to 70v. remain with one panel working
so lets see how long this can get. your charge controller take the solar volts and drops it to lets say 14vdc. so when you lower volts, amps increase, lower amps, volts increase in the charge controller. so when the panels are Parrell the volts stays the same amps goes up. now the charge controller drops the incoming volts to 14 for example. now when you lowe,r volts amps increases but amps are already increase because of parrell connection so no increase here. but in serious the volts incoming is a lot higher lets say 50vdc so when the charge controller drops the volts down to 14vdc to charge the battery then there is a higher increase in amps. no matter what connection serious, parrell the total wats is the same. so by using serious connections there is a higher amp output into the batteries. hope that helps.
All my panels are all in series parallel. You can put more panels on that way versus only parallel or only series. Thereby getting more wattage and not going over your voltage limit.
There is definitely a point where practicality trumps marginal efficiency gains. Sounds like you found it! I typically go higher voltage so I’m not worrying about high current running around myself.
I dunno. I think the MPPT alg on EPEver is little slow to settle in, that's what I notice on all the ones I have. I've seen 10-20w discrepancy just by unplugging the PV, and plugging back in. My guess would be the manual says to do it this way because when you really load the controller down doing 60A then that large of voltage conversion difference will probably cause it to overheat. Wonder if these have synchronous or asynchronous buck converter?
The slow tracking is so true, the powmr ones I have are instant compared to epever! I’m excited to test how hot it gets when doing the larger voltage conversion.
@@BeeneEnergy I have two of those sunpower panels (in parallel, but as you know still high voltage) on a 30a epever, gets pretty damn hot @ 12v, and little cooler @ 24v
Yes and yes! You need to find screws with with same threads and if the "heads" are a bit too big just push down to make them go down inside the hole there. This is what I did anyway. Again if you find the proper screw but head is a bit too big but might fit then just push down hard to force it past small bit of plastic that surrounds the screw inside that hole area. This is how to get bad screw out. get a small tool under bottom plate inside that chamber area where wire goes. Get under plate so you can lift plate UP with some pressure/force enough to keep it up. I used small flat tip screw driver or use a tool that does not bend. Now at same time you do this start backing out stripped screw, keep pressure on plate, back the BAD screw out at the same time and you must have pressure so plate is pushing UP against bad screw this will help extract it. GOOD LUCK!
Sorry for the Dumb question, But would you be able to do a Video with the EPEVER showing what and how to use all the connections on it? the manual just mentions them, but not the way to connect them. for example I have the EPever Tracer AN 100 AMP MPPT controller and it has connections on it that are " Load Control Relay" "Remote Voltage Sensor" "Diesel Generator Relay" 2x RS485 ports, "Remote Temp sensor" "Diesel generator relay/load control relay" I know what most of them are, but would really like to see all of this in action, well besides the obvious rs485 and temp sensor, again those are obvious and just accessories that plug in. the others seem to require wiring of sorts. Ive had this controller for a couple years now and would like to utilize all of its features, and since I seen this on your channel was hoping you could do a short vid on it? Appreciate it - Patrick
I don't know how you're connecting and reconnecting your panels from parallel to series, but if you're making and breaking the MC-4 connectors in sunshine you'll wreck the connectors. They're not rated for connection and disconnection at those voltages. You need a properly rated dual pole switch or breaker.
Yep shouldn’t be under load. Don’t remember if I followed what I should do here or not ;). It’s not a very big arc at 70v. I’m sure it’d kill a contact real quick at 600v.
DC line losses will make you scratch your head and say WTF? Anytime the current is constantly flowing in one direction, it will make less power transfer then it would if the current is AC, even if it's still within the capacities of the wire you are using. Also the longer the wire which in this case looked to be a fairly long distance with all of it combined. The wattage differences from parallel to series were only a few watts but it still makes a difference. Yes changing from parallel to series will make a more efficient system as how was indicated, double voltage equals half amps. Take the case of a standard diode which has a forward voltage drop of ~.7 to 1.7 volts, when you are working with a 12 system, you loose that which amounts to a wopping ~ 10%. Inside the MPPT controller are diodes and components that will be responsible for that 10% loss or more which would require the controller to attempt to overcome when the system is only a nominal 12v single or parallel panels input arangement. If you double that voltage from the panels, you are now looking at only ~5% loss. In the NEC manual and anywhere else you look for data ( info ) you will find that in DC circuits, step up, up to 4 wire sizes at least even for circuits that will be going more than a few feet. This was the argument between Edison and Tesla. Obviously Tesla won that one ! Good thing for the world as Copper is already expensive and in short supply, image how it would be if Edison had been right?
Do you know of anyone who has used (3) EPEVER 100 Amp MPPT Solar Charge Controller 200V PV Input Negative Ground Work with 12/24/36/48V Battery System Tracer 10420AN Series W/ MT50 Remote Meter to charge a 48 volt VRLA 2,000 amp hour battery bank? I am looking for information in regard to creating a fully off grid system for our property in Northern Nevada.
You need to retest this to get rid of variables. You went from 408 to 411. That's already statistically insignificant. That's under a percent. Secondly you removed connectors and cut the current in half. There's your 3w. Has nothing to do with the inverter. You want your panels to be 1.5-2x the battery voltage. That's well known for efficiency.
Yeah no inverter involved :). Both of these configurations are listed as acceptable according to the user manual, but parallel listed as being better. The connector point is valid, I’ll be testing this next time the sun comes out long enough! And yes it was more than a 3w difference but with me rambling about stuff to the camera that I cut out for your sake and the sun setting I lost that gap :).
@@BeeneEnergy I'm definitely interested as I have that charge controller. It's a super nice controller. I'm running about 75v into 50-55v lifepo4 battery. Highly efficient. Cold days I hit 80-85v.
This is simple and has nothing to do about the controller. Less amps is less loss over cables etc. tho it’s good they say you should keep them in parallel because these charge controllers stay in PWM mode uncomfortably long if the input is under what they deem acceptable to fire up mppt. I have a small one panel setup where the controller pulls down the voltage of the panel to battery level until it reach about two amps. Then it kick in mppt mode and your two amps in = 6 amp charging to the battery. That’s the drawback of the EPEVER I have come across to date.
Closer to the max V of CC is best but relative to Max wattage which you achieve stringing panels together in series. Then Tie the strings together in parallel to achieve Max Amps.
Closer to the max V of CC is best but relative to Max wattage which you achieve stringing panels together in series. Then Tie the strings together in parallel to achieve Max Amps.
Closer to the max V of CC is best but relative to Max wattage which you achieve stringing panels together in series. Then Tie the strings together in parallel to achieve Max Amps.
Yes, some benefit from less current flowing through those piles of #10 wire, but mostly, with series you give the solar controller more headroom to exercise it's MPPT function. I.e., it starts with a higher voltage and can pull that voltage down relatively further to find a maximum power point that may not be reached when starting with half that voltage and hitting the battery voltage before the maximum power point is reached. This is especially the case when solar energy reaching the panels is lower as in the late afternoon. Under this condition the MPPT function is most productive and can do more with more voltage to work with. The Epever manuls show efficiency curves and those make it clear that the controllers need some headroom for best operation.
Couldn't have said it better myself. I am running the 5KW EPEVER unit on 5.4kW of panels with a string voltage of 185V (max is 200V for my MPPT controller) specifically to keep cost of wiring down, and to give the MPPT lots of headroom to do it's work. Btw if you're curios as to what the diff is between the 150V and 200V MPPT controllers are (I have one of each), it's just the input capacitors are rated for 200V, nothing else is different. That said I was running my 150V model on a 160 OCV string without issue because I always had a load attached so the string voltage never exceeded 150V.
I don't know how big of an impact this really has but hier voltage reduces cable loses, plus less amperage means the controller runs cooler and has less heat loses.
@@gnif I am trying to figure out how to use (3) of the 100a units to charge a 48 volt battery bank (off grid). We would like to have enough power to keep the 2,000 amp hour battery at full charge without the use of a generator (minimal). We have plenty of space to set up solar panels to feed the system. I am looking into purchasing as many LONGi Hi-MO 5 (545 watt panels) as is necessary to accomplish the task. All of the array will be placed on top of a sea container (as much as is possible) for the shortest wire runs into the container for the system. We will be operating a altE Pre-wired Syst, SW4048,CL150, SCP to power our 50 Amp RV while we build an off grid home. Am I way off base thinking this is possible to do?
Higher voltage travels better down smaller cables, the mppt controller can take the higher voltage with lower amps and flip it like a transformer to make lower voltage and higher amps to fill the batteries. I have 6x 110ah gel batteries and an epever triron 40a controller with 6x 130 panels, 3 in series to make 66v and another string of 3 paralleled to double the amps input. My next plan is to go 24v with more batteries and then I can double up on the panel power. Solar power is great, but you need deep pockets to make good power!
Hmm... so then why does voltage drop (resistance) get compensated for by using larger gage cables?
This makes no sense. Smaller cables can be used with series panels because the amps are reduced but that is not the same as saying "higher voltage travels down smaller gage better" which is untrue.
Voltage drop is factored per foot somewhat linear (like a constant) and changes because of resistance(gage) so using higher voltage makes the percent of voltage drop less yielding more watts remaining at the end of the run.
@@fishhuntadventure Nope, the reverse is true 12 volts is better than 24 volts because of the fact that most campers are using fridges that run a Secom compressor, more amps = more juice 24 volts is half the amps = less juice, you need max juice from your solar controller to power up your energy thirsty compressor load when it starts to spin up. 24 volt systems are bloody expensive and don't cut the mustard, a 24 volt inverter costs around 10X more than a 12 volt , there is simply no justification for one, only trucks and buses utilise 24 volt systems
I have epever 40A too with 12v battery. Two 24v panels in series 340+380 but after two month of 340 addition the mppt recognises one panels show 33v and normal amps. Everyday I disconnect solar wires than mppt show double panels volts 70-75v and produce power from both panels. But next morning same issue 33-35v. Is I oversized my mppt?
You need to check the charts in the controller's manual for where it is most efficient with your combination of solar panel voltage, battery voltage and the solar panel wattage getting to the controller. That can vary from 92 to 98%. I've been running a very small off-grid system using an EPever 3210A controller for about 5 years and I've done a lot of experimenting to learn about solar power. The current system is my "Wait until daylight" backup system because it can run the fridge and furnace for about 12 hours and in 12 hours I should have enough light to get the inverter gen out of the equipment shed (where the mowers & etc. live) and get it going for as long as needed.
However, I'd suspect the loss in the wiring from the solar panels is making the difference you see. From my wire loss spreadsheet* (based on wire resistance per foot for whatever gauge wire is being used), two 300 watt panels (an entry I already have in the spreadsheet) delivering 9 amps each for 18 amps at 34 volts loses 2.64% of its power in 50 feet of #10 wire. If the two panels are in series for 9 amps at 68 volts, the loss in the wiring from the panels to the controller is 0.66% - which means you get almost 2% more power from the same equipment because there is less loss in the wiring. 2% of 400 watts is 8 watts so that's a good start on the differences.
Try again when you have more sun time and measure the losses in the wiring with the solar panels in parallel and series. And do it with enough load on the batteries to keep the charge controller working hard ;-)
I like the EPever controllers because they are built like tanks. I don't expect one to survive a direct lightning strike, but they do handle near-by strikes (150 feet away, a neighbor lost his fiber internet connection) and tripped a breaker in the breaker panel. The RS485-USB adapter I use so I can monitor the controller remotely (ancient laptop running Win 7 + the EPever SOLAR software, and using the free UltraViewer to access it remotely) died that day but the controller is still working fine. I expect to replace 2 to 4 of the RS485-USB dongles each year - and I have a bag of them near the monitoring laptop. Having the big heat sinks instead of a fan means the EPever controllers just keep working in the heat and don't die from fan failure.
* Send me a message if you want a link to that spreadsheet.
We have a 4210 controller. Consistent higher wattage with higher voltage. Not just that it produces earlier, but consistent through out the day. No problem with high temps
Closer to the max V of CC is best but relative to Max wattage which you achieve stringing panels together in series. Then Tie the strings together in parallel to achieve Max Amps.
I maxed out 2 midnight classics. Side by side charging the same battery Bank with the exact same number of panels. It was a 24 volt system. One had all panels in parallel and the other had two panels in series. The one that was ran all in parallel ran warm and harvested more kilowatt hours before reaching absorb. The one in series parallel runs hot enough to burn my hand and started charging earlier in the morning but it didn't take long for the other one to pass it by. They've been set up like this for 4 years now.
Oh good data! Goes along with Goatzila where it could be cabling losses I was seeing! I’ll be out there again soon, will just need some good weather to test.
@@BeeneEnergy true. The difference between your test and mine is that you doubled up the amperage through one cable and connection point. In my instance each parallel panel had its own cable so there should be no resistance differences in my circuit between the two.
@@BeeneEnergy my conclusion is always go with the highest panel voltage the charge controller specs allow in regards to battery voltage. Otherwise it will simply overheat. Avoiding all the extra breakers and cables is worth the occasional charge controller or fan replacement.
There are many factors that can contribute. If you halve the current by going in series, then you reduce the cable losses to a quarter of what they were.
But there are also factors in the MPPT converter. Does it run better at higher voltages? Some do.
And the MPPT algorithm might work better at high voltages too.
That Changes if you shade one, but the higher the volts the better they work because you are not in the best mppt range at the lower voltage, I’ve seen it on the Powmr also.
Lower impedance ohms law I run mine near the max voltage works great with a single 12V LifeP04 battery runs a small 5000 btu AC unit all day and night with two 265-watt panels I bought used. I set the temp to 88F I'm only wanting to keep a shed cooler for our Halloween decorations, so the plastic doesn't crack. Where I live Arizona we see 117F annually. I haven't gone through the summer yet with it I may have to add another battery we will see.
I'm not surprised. I'm kind of guessing it was all cabling losses, including the cabling/traces inside the charger itself. Plus the branch connector's not free either. You literally cut the current in half. The fun thing to do would be to look at everything with a thermal camera to try to see where the energy gets wasted.
Those are excellent points!
series panels are higher voltage than the same in parallel. since voltage drop is a relationship of volts loss per foot, series panels at twice the voltage will have less voltage drop for the same cable length as parallel by half, all else being equal. There is no magic happening.
Very cool video 👍. I'm still learning, but you explained it well. Can you overpower the epevers Tracer series controllers? I've got 3 x 150w solar panels connected to a 30a controller
Thank you for the encouragement! The epever models usually have pretty good manuals indicating what the max over panel is for a battery voltage.
These solar converters use a buck converter circuit, which can be very efficient for a wide range of input voltages. Note that this is nothing to do with MPPT tracking, which attempts to change the impedance seen by the panels for maximum power extraction, and should work well over a large range of voltages. Also, series panels halve the current in your case, which reduces the resistive losses (I^2 R) by a factor of 4.
Epever seems to have some built in software/hardware conversion. I have noticed that my Epever will convert excess volts into amps. Usually when your volts are double your battery bank rating the conversion into amps is at its greatest.
Pannels in parralel, especialy when more than 3, pose a significant fire danger. If you are going to do it, I would fuse each and every pannel in parallel for safety's sake.
You are 100% right! I forget when I’m running around testing things to have fuses when appropriate. Thanks for pointing it out.
Yep, ive melted plugs in parallel
The higher the amps the more resistive the wire is.
That's why you need thick wire for high amps, where as you can run 25000 volts through a single strand of wire at 0.5 amps with no loss. But put 12 volts at 100 amp through the same wire and melt the wire instantly.
ive heard that you need at least 20v's above your battery voltage (going in) to get the most out of a mppt
I have 60 cell 220 w solar panels. So similar to this setup, except I have 3 200ah batteries (wired in parallel) so if I understand correctly (12v system) I can max use 2 panels?
There is nothing like parralel is better or worse, it depend on what you have as charge controller and what/how it handles it.
Each controller got an efficiency that change depending on the voltage...
I use the 50A version and have noticed no significant difference in harvest under normal skies using 3x 60cell in parallel or series.
If you treat each panel as 12 series makes the panels equal 24 bat set up from what I've come to understand the mppt can support an 48 solar array set up so if you use it in conjunction with 12 24 36 48 set ups it's equivalent to those unknowns your asking.
Maybe , with lower current and the cables are bigger for that current, you get less losses, more efficiency
in an ideal scenario of sun exposure (tilt angle, no shadows), and if you have a solar panel which is made for 12v system (~50-200w, 18v Open voltage, ~12-14v at typical amperage), a PWM controller is actually more efficient than messing around with MPPT. its impossible for a lot of people to admit since people spend so much money on MPPT systems that they have been told by someone very well informed will boost their panels efficiency. if you have a solar system that is almost perfectly spec'd for your battery, the MPP will naturally be around the ideal charging voltage at ideal amp draw of your battery system. and if that case is true the most optimal setup is actually to wire the solar panel directly to the battery. million reasons why you should never do this, but it might be worth testing just to show how its better than the most expensive MPPT controller in the world.
a pwm is basically the same thing with a somewhat smart oscillating switch. if the battery is pretty low state of charge but still almost nominal voltage, like how most lithium chemistrys work (compared to lead/sodium), then the PWM controller will have a ~100% duty cycle and beside the tiny loss from the pwm controller itself, it will be the same as directly wiring to the battery with a safety swtich.
I have a few 350 w 24 v panels if I run them in parallel would the charge controller even recognize that low of a voltage ? The always include the max voltage of the charge controller but it’s hard to find the minimum voltage This will gauge what size controller I buy since a 100 amp controller may have a higher minimum than a 40 amp controller
Hard to say if they don't publish it. Generally speaking the vmp of the panel needs to be a few volts higher than the max voltage the battery will ever be for any charge controller to operate correctly. I like to bump up close to the max voltage of the controller as that allows bypass diodes to operate correctly and generally less/smaller wire from the array to the controller. Keeping in mind that as the temperature drops the voltage rises on the panel so here in north Texas I keep the voc of the panels about 90% of the max of the charge controller.
I think they are trying to avoid layman issues, and not confuse them with fancy panel layouts and wiring diagrams. I mean everything’s simpler when it’s set up in parallel. Series really confuses a lot of people.
I suppose their wording of best could be used that way! I like it.
no, there is a voltage range in which the mppt algorithm processes more efficiently and that is more likely what they are saying. Additionally, "wear" on the mosfets is higher over time for a higher voltage which affects lifespan. sortofa expected duty cycle related to heat.
Yes had the same result until there was shading
1:45
Why are there two cables connecting the battery to the charge controller?
Is it to distribute the current?
Yes, the powmr controller I mess with a lot has two 10 gauge ports so both are needed to support 60a.
I just bought an EPEVER 80A (8415AN model) and it is running default settings. If I want to connect 3 or 4 panels in series and connect a 24v or 48v battery array, do I need to make any manual changes for this to work or will it work as Plug N Play?
how to set the control parameters EPEVER? Which entries do I have to make for OverVoltDisconnect, OverVoltDeconnect, BoostChargingVolt, FloatChargingVolt, BoostReconChardVolt LowVoltReconnectVolt. I have 16s 3.2V 48V Lifepo4 200A = 10kW
When the panels are connected in series, the current is 2 times less, therefore, there are less losses. Plus, the MPPT controller works like a transformer (figuratively), it converts high voltage with a small current into a low voltage of 14.2 V but with a large current.
beene i have the same question , my epever controller 12 volts battery max is 520 watt and 24 volts battery is1020 watts. do you think i can set up two 540 watts in series ?
I have 40A epever at 12v it support 520watt used 330 watt two panels in series it worked fine. Later bought 380watt later sold. Now 340+380 connected in series and it’s reached to 38-39Amps. But from 4,5 days it’s show power of one panel. 33v instead of 70-75v and 200watt instead of 400watt. Epever says you have exceed the limit
Hey dear I am facing power dropping issue in series connection. I have connected 340watt and 380watt solar panels in series to epever 40A mppt controller with 12v battery. It show power of one panel when I disconnect solar connector and reconnect, the mppt show both Panels. It’s hard to do this every morning. It was fine in winter but now summer starting and facing this issue. Using both panels form 2 months. after wire disconnect and reconnect the voltage jump from 33-36 to 75v. If something wrong with one solar panel then it should not work after replugging mc4 or solar wire in the mppt after that It work whole day but same issue next morning Both panels volts amps are little different. Tesla 34.51v maxpower 33.18v. Tesla amps 11.01amps maxpower 10.29amps.
Does one panel have some shading in the morning? I’ve heard of mppt tracking being lazy by not trying for a higher voltage even after the shade goes away.
Middle of the day try putting a blanket on one panel so voltage drops. Then pull the blanket off and see if it replicates your morning issue.
@@BeeneEnergy there is no shade and did the blanket trick still shown one panel. But only connect disconnect works. Which is hard to do everyday to get power from both panels. or I have to install dc breaker to on off daily. Today one panel is connected to mppt and it working fine
@@DigitalMind.254 If it’s working then you do the blanket trick does that break it?
@@BeeneEnergy I put on one and then both panels it reduced volts to 16v and went back to 33v not 70-75v. mppt didn’t jumped to 70v. remain with one panel working
@@DigitalMind.254 sounds like crazy mppt. Dont know if epever will replace it for you or if you have to buy a new unit. :(
so lets see how long this can get. your charge controller take the solar volts and drops it to lets say 14vdc. so when you lower volts, amps increase, lower amps, volts increase in the charge controller. so when the panels are Parrell the volts stays the same amps goes up. now the charge controller drops the incoming volts to 14 for example. now when you lowe,r volts amps increases but amps are already increase because of parrell connection so no increase here. but in serious the volts incoming is a lot higher lets say 50vdc so when the charge controller drops the volts down to 14vdc to charge the battery then there is a higher increase in amps. no matter what connection serious, parrell the total wats is the same. so by using serious connections there is a higher amp output into the batteries. hope that helps.
You want more volts and less amps. Amps = Heat = loss. That is why series works best.
Because of a higher voltage..
All my panels are all in series parallel. You can put more panels on that way versus only parallel or only series. Thereby getting more wattage and not going over your voltage limit.
There is definitely a point where practicality trumps marginal efficiency gains. Sounds like you found it!
I typically go higher voltage so I’m not worrying about high current running around myself.
@@BeeneEnergy
I find I save more money and it’s not running as hot if you had them in parallel only.
@@benjones8977 How hot the charge controller runs will be something I check next. Thanks!
@@BeeneEnergy
If you have any questions I would post them on Will Prowse’s forum.
I dunno. I think the MPPT alg on EPEver is little slow to settle in, that's what I notice on all the ones I have. I've seen 10-20w discrepancy just by unplugging the PV, and plugging back in. My guess would be the manual says to do it this way because when you really load the controller down doing 60A then that large of voltage conversion difference will probably cause it to overheat. Wonder if these have synchronous or asynchronous buck converter?
The slow tracking is so true, the powmr ones I have are instant compared to epever! I’m excited to test how hot it gets when doing the larger voltage conversion.
@@BeeneEnergy I have two of those sunpower panels (in parallel, but as you know still high voltage) on a 30a epever, gets pretty damn hot @ 12v, and little cooler @ 24v
anybody have problems with the terminals on these failing, stripping? Can they be changed?
Yes and yes! You need to find screws with with same threads and if the "heads" are a bit too big just push down to make them go down inside the hole there. This is what I did anyway. Again if you find the proper screw but head is a bit too big but might fit then just push down hard to force it past small bit of plastic that surrounds the screw inside that hole area.
This is how to get bad screw out. get a small tool under bottom plate inside that chamber area where wire goes. Get under plate so you can lift plate UP with some pressure/force enough to keep it up. I used small flat tip screw driver or use a tool that does not bend. Now at same time you do this start backing out stripped screw, keep pressure on plate, back the BAD screw out at the same time and you must have pressure so plate is pushing UP against bad screw this will help extract it. GOOD LUCK!
Sorry for the Dumb question, But would you be able to do a Video with the EPEVER showing what and how to use all the connections on it? the manual just mentions them, but not the way to connect them. for example I have the EPever Tracer AN 100 AMP MPPT controller and it has connections on it that are " Load Control Relay" "Remote Voltage Sensor" "Diesel Generator Relay" 2x RS485 ports, "Remote Temp sensor" "Diesel generator relay/load control relay" I know what most of them are, but would really like to see all of this in action, well besides the obvious rs485 and temp sensor, again those are obvious and just accessories that plug in. the others seem to require wiring of sorts. Ive had this controller for a couple years now and would like to utilize all of its features, and since I seen this on your channel was hoping you could do a short vid on it? Appreciate it - Patrick
Are you using an MT50
I don't know how you're connecting and reconnecting your panels from parallel to series, but if you're making and breaking the MC-4 connectors in sunshine you'll wreck the connectors. They're not rated for connection and disconnection at those voltages. You need a properly rated dual pole switch or breaker.
Yep shouldn’t be under load. Don’t remember if I followed what I should do here or not ;).
It’s not a very big arc at 70v. I’m sure it’d kill a contact real quick at 600v.
It's because higher current has more resistance. Higher voltage lower current has less resistance, more efficient.
Parabéns pela aula.
DC line losses will make you scratch your head and say WTF? Anytime the current is constantly flowing in one direction, it will make less power transfer then it would if the current is AC, even if it's still within the capacities of the wire you are using. Also the longer the wire which in this case looked to be a fairly long distance with all of it combined. The wattage differences from parallel to series were only a few watts but it still makes a difference. Yes changing from parallel to series will make a more efficient system as how was indicated, double voltage equals half amps. Take the case of a standard diode which has a forward voltage drop of ~.7 to 1.7 volts, when you are working with a 12 system, you loose that which amounts to a wopping ~ 10%. Inside the MPPT controller are diodes and components that will be responsible for that 10% loss or more which would require the controller to attempt to overcome when the system is only a nominal 12v single or parallel panels input arangement. If you double that voltage from the panels, you are now looking at only ~5% loss. In the NEC manual and anywhere else you look for data ( info ) you will find that in DC circuits, step up, up to 4 wire sizes at least even for circuits that will be going more than a few feet. This was the argument between Edison and Tesla. Obviously Tesla won that one ! Good thing for the world as Copper is already expensive and in short supply, image how it would be if Edison had been right?
The cheap metal Powmr does the same thing, higher the voltage better it charges
Is it ok to use the MT50 with 100 amp charge controller, the instruction manual only mentions using a PC or an ebox WiFi?
Honestly not sure. Seems odd for if not to work.
@@BeeneEnergy thank you
Yes you can
@@vet137 thanks, ye got it installed with the MT50 now
Do you know of anyone who has used (3) EPEVER 100 Amp MPPT Solar Charge Controller 200V PV Input Negative Ground Work with 12/24/36/48V Battery System Tracer 10420AN Series W/ MT50 Remote Meter to charge a 48 volt VRLA 2,000 amp hour battery bank? I am looking for information in regard to creating a fully off grid system for our property in Northern Nevada.
Try maxing out the charge controller and doing the test again.
I will! Hopefully Monday next week these clouds clear out.
You need to retest this to get rid of variables. You went from 408 to 411. That's already statistically insignificant. That's under a percent. Secondly you removed connectors and cut the current in half. There's your 3w. Has nothing to do with the inverter. You want your panels to be 1.5-2x the battery voltage. That's well known for efficiency.
Yeah no inverter involved :).
Both of these configurations are listed as acceptable according to the user manual, but parallel listed as being better. The connector point is valid, I’ll be testing this next time the sun comes out long enough! And yes it was more than a 3w difference but with me rambling about stuff to the camera that I cut out for your sake and the sun setting I lost that gap :).
@@BeeneEnergy I'm definitely interested as I have that charge controller. It's a super nice controller. I'm running about 75v into 50-55v lifepo4 battery. Highly efficient. Cold days I hit 80-85v.
Voltage is almost always more efficient than amps. Think Tesla vs Edison
This is simple and has nothing to do about the controller. Less amps is less loss over cables etc. tho it’s good they say you should keep them in parallel because these charge controllers stay in PWM mode uncomfortably long if the input is under what they deem acceptable to fire up mppt. I have a small one panel setup where the controller pulls down the voltage of the panel to battery level until it reach about two amps. Then it kick in mppt mode and your two amps in = 6 amp charging to the battery. That’s the drawback of the EPEVER I have come across to date.
You're effectively halving your cable loses in serries
The further you have to move in voltage the more work has to be done, if you go to 24v for series the drop will go away
Ohm law.... P_loss ~R_line I² ..... so quadratic in intensity....
This would totally reverse if there was any shading happening.
Ma in italiano non c’è
courrent😂
Closer to the max V of CC is best but relative to Max wattage which you achieve stringing panels together in series. Then Tie the strings together in parallel to achieve Max Amps.
Closer to the max V of CC is best but relative to Max wattage which you achieve stringing panels together in series. Then Tie the strings together in parallel to achieve Max Amps.
Closer to the max V of CC is best but relative to Max wattage which you achieve stringing panels together in series. Then Tie the strings together in parallel to achieve Max Amps.
can 30a charger cope 3x11A, epever says can overpanel 150%