When I was 10, I asked the priest, "you said god loves us more than our own parents, but also that god will punish us and send us to eternal hell if we do something wrong. Which is it? My own parents wouldn't sent me to my room for the rest of my life if I do something wrong. If god loves me more than my parents, how could he send me to eternal hell if I do something wrong?" The priest said, "you're too young to understand and you must do as god tells you." Right then and there I knew religion was a bunch of bs.
@@angelamaryquitecontrary4609 Im sorry you take it that way, but that’s the way I see it, in aggregate. I was brought up in the church. I rejected the whole thing by the time I was 5 or 6. . Haven’t wavered since
@@montrealbroadway My short response was meant only to engage with your tone, for which I am sorry. I was brought up in a super Catholic home, where even to imagine for a second that religion was nonsensical would have meant the End Times for the lowly sinner. Me? Of course you, you silly little girl! It was a loving house, but Catholicism was as present as air. After my mother died, I started to listen to Christopher Hitchens, inter alia. I gradually began to untangle my dislike for the church - the abuse and cover-up had hit the news - from the love of my mother. I am atheist now, although I would quite like a Viking funeral. Or my ashes to be attached to a firework, and sent forth with "Shoot it up" by Sigue Sigue Sputnik blasting out. I do apologise for my first response to you. It was unbecoming and unfair.
This is an excellent set of observations. I was a Christian, United Methodist pastor for nearly 30 years. I left the Church because I felt I was an impostor trying to teach and preach something that was no longer the “truth” as I was taught. When I did my Ph.D in Comparative Mythology and Religion, that solidified my suspicions about Christianity. No doubt that Christian Evangelicals and Fundamentalist radicals will challenge the 14 points by claiming that it’s the Holy Spirit, only bestowed upon “true believers” that gives them special privileges and power. So, the exclusivity of their beliefs will undoubtedly compel them to continue to avoid critical thinking. Thanks for this liberating video.
The idea that I could live forever in heaven, if only I would “believe” in a Christian god is hilariously childish. And yet it holds so much power. Mystifying.
As someone who was raised as a mainstream Christian, but never could fully accept/believe the creeds, doctrines, and dogmas, I appreciate Mr. Palmer’s 14 theses. They pretty closely align with my own understanding based on years of study and reflection, but stated much more cogently. I appreciate him and you for making it available.
You should look at his great dictator speech at the end of the same titled movie. It is on UA-cam. Charlie was a silent movie star that used his expressions and funny movements to communicate to his audience. But when he made his first talky movie what he said was timeless and phenomenal!
This had me in tears ( in a very good way). I would love to be able to send this to my evangelical mother. Her beliefs have harmed our relationship in many ways. However, I will be sharing this with my nephew who is studying to be a professor of philosophy and religion. Thank you Seth for sharing this. 😊
I feel for you as my family is gone . I get bombarded by religious people. I got use too that. But when family or spouse do this. I try to tolerant but it doesn't work.
The more I read the Bible the more confused I became. I'm agnostic. It's not right to tell people that if your not saved. Then all this bad stuff happens to you.
@@curtishegner9245it's immoral and manipulative for people to say those kinds of things. they think they're doing the best for you, but won't bother to place themselves in your shoes. i know how it feels.
As I watched this I thought about how much I would enjoy sending this to my evangelical homophobic parents and siblings but they severed contact with me when I married my husband.
I have had theists confront me at: subway, grocery store, mall, walking down the street, sitting at home, sitting on a mountain top in Colorado, in a computer store, In a dry cleaner store, Target, Walmart, at work, at work, at work, ETC. And more than once at each of these. I am thinking of making a little pamphlet of this to give those people when they hit on me. This is really excellent.
I'm working on a pamphlet taking the reader from the tooth fairy and Leprechauns through Thor and Zeus and more all the way to Yahweh so I can hand it out to some religious person that knocks on my door or confronts me on the street. So go for it I'm with you.
Case and point of this video... youre confirming your bias by limiting yourself to thinking its a sign from your psyche(yhwh) 👀 have you considered yourself delulu? @joejoe-lb6bw
Thanks for this, especially your last comment about secular society suppressing religion. I didn't want to discourage thought, I want to encourage it so others can come to conclusions on their own. Thanks for all you do.
I think this is the evolutionary benefit that it imparted that allowed for it to flourish in earn human societies. It gives cohesion and order. However, like many evolutionary developments, it has its drawbacks.
@@bobs182 that is of course the most logical end. It makes sense that certain artifices of religion would remain in regional culture, but outlived its usefullness and should fade away
@@Salamander_falls I think that we also have an innate tribal/social nature that will be with us for a very long time. We can work to overcome it but it is still there. Evolving for survival doesn't necessarily mean we are structured for knowing what is true especially when it comes to discerning the relationship between our minds and brains.
Just as the song says, “You have to be taught from year to year … it has to be drummed in your dear little ear. to hate all the people your relatives hate. You have to be carefully taught.”
In a funny way, as a believer in Jesus, I agree with you (although probably not for the same reasons). Since I understand atheism to be at its core a rebellious denial of God's existence, I don't believe its a position solely based on objective inquiry, but rather one that is rooted in man's fundamental rebellious condition from birth, outlined by Paul when he states, "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men (my note: speaking of mankind generally, touching on our nature more fundamentally), who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God (my note: knowing in the way a religion teaches God, but knowing in the core of one's being, even if one professes to be atheistic and denies certain [or all] religious concepts of God), they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened" (Rm. 1:18-21). I know you might say that this is just the Bible (which will then lead to arguments regarding the reliability of the Bible, if there is any at all), but I just wanted to state how I agree with you, that man (if one allows for atheism to be the line of thinking that rebels against the natural bent of humanity to believe in some sort of deity) is born into a state of atheistic rebellion of the God who made them.
The point about god being a projection of our own minds is crucial. I went from Christian to non-Christian theist. When I considered the disparity of conflicting beliefs about the nature of God-- and how my own version of god was so different from the norm-- it suddenly dawned on me: I had created god as I wanted him to be. And everyone else has done the same. That's when I became an atheist.
We have a strong capacity and propensity to envision a mind in people in which we interact then project that envisioned mind back onto the person. This capacity is diminished in people on the autism scale making it difficult for them to understand other people's intentions and motives. This capacity gets overused when we project minds onto objects without brains which we call spirits/gods. Our minds are good at projecting as the image of our computer screen which is formed inside our brain/mind is projected back to the source making it seem the image in our head is in front of us.
Really and just how this coloring the basis for outgroup bias? Let's look at some findings of how atheists and theists differ.. The religious experience less anxiety or depression Believers have significantly less incidents of suicide. Atheists are more likely to have substance abuse problems than believers. The religious are far more likely than atheists to have completed a first degree. Atheists as a group have a higher percentage of autistic spectrum disorders. Atheists tend to score lower on empathy than the religious. Given empathy has been stressed as a necessary foundation for moral behaviour the lower scores of atheists might mean more difficulty in forming moral behaviours. Believers donate significantly more to both church and secular charities. The religious live an average of 4 years longer than atheists Anglicans, Episcopalians and Jews score higher than atheists on standardized IQ tests. There is no evidence that the religious are less able to think analytically or critically than atheists. Over 90 percent of believers are neither biblical literalists nor believe the bible is inerrant. Maybe its time to drop the claims the religious are suffering from delusions or are mentally ill.--- they are not
@@lightatthecape2009 It's so funny. OP said that theists (Which I am one. I am an Omnist) are taught to "other" people, and you wrote this long ass response othering people. Classic.
@@lightatthecape2009none of what you wrote(if true) means that what believers are placing their trust in is true; some might find it useful but there’s still no demonstration that it’s true. “90% don’t take the Bible literally?” Can you give a source for that? Not saying you’re wrong but I’d love to dive into that one more.
i was always confused when i see people praying to god to heal them. if u believe in god, why would u want to be healed? wouldn't u rather to be in heaven instead and end all ur suffering? this just proves what they truly believe deep down.
Exactly. I always wonder why they cry at funerals. They should celebrate that auntie Jess is playing banjo with Elvis in heaven. Very strange, unless they have a sneaky suspicion that auntie is gone forever 😢
It shows that you know very little about prayer. I probably thought that when I was about seven and beginning to think about prayer. I am now in my seventies, I still believe in prayer and still practice it and one day I have hope that I will be in heaven. As a very wise man of my acquaintance once said: "Prayer is like talking to a friend."
Being an atheist for my entire life, I tend to think that God is just a religious Ghost that people fear and run to when they're unhappy. I've never been in this state in my seventy-two years and don't expect to ever do this. The books were never shoved down my neck.
7. People are born human, and are slowly conditioned by narratives of race, religion, gender and nationality to be less than human. So true. I just hadn't realized the recent rise of identity politics was just a more weaponized and strident version of an existing phenomenon.
Identity politics dates from the Renaissance, with nationalism and Protestant denominations. The leftist versions date from the Age of Enlightenment, with revolutions.
Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. Matthew:5:43 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; Matthew:5:44 What about this recommendation of Jesus makes you "less than human" I wonder? Would the world not be a better place if people actually followed this? As opposed to the sh1tshow it currently is? Of course nobody follows this. Just today I had the "pleasure" of watching a video by "Inspiring Philosophy" where he repeated his statement of "be nice to me and I'll be nice to you, be mean to me and I'll be mean to you". And that's the typical evangelical apologetics channel. They're all like that. So, yes, organized religion is a self-righteous circus. Doesn't mean that Jesus's ideas would have made us less than human if people would follow them. Not all of it, mind you, but the sermon on the mount has some nice stuff in it. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 1 Thessalonians:5:21
Not only do you have the most interesting and enlightening podcasts, but you also find some of the most enlightening ideas from others, and this is a great one. Many thanks!
As an ex fundamentalist evangelical, I’m with you, Seth. For me, the bottom line is always Truth. The question must always be, Is it True? That is the only way to make the best choices for ourselves, as well as our society. Even the most inoffensive religious belief systems introduce unsupported claims and take us away from the path of Truth, robbing us of the ability to make the best decisions in our lives.
exactly. i'm not here to reject god...i'm here to find the truth. questioning the existence of a god is not the same as rejecting him. i can't reject something i'm not even sure exists in the first place . if it's fully revealed that god does exist and i go with satan, then yes i'm now rejecting god. it's like asking someone who grew up without a father who's father left at birth and u ask them, did u reject ur father? how could they reject their father when he was never around !
Well, the claim that God doesn't exist is as unprovable as the claim that God does exist. So both beliefs are a matter of faith, not of scientific evidence. Therefore, one claim is as vaid as the other. So which you chose is a product of your physical and emotional environment and your personal mental makeup. It is a silly argument for people of one belief to denigrate a person holding the opposite belief (and I emphasize the word belief). We will find (or not find) the truth of our belief when we die. Either an after-life will be there or we won't even know that we are dead.
@@karngry4286 Incorrect. The two claims can be evaluated, tested in many, many ways, and the claim of the supernatural is never supported by actual evidence, whereas natural processes are consistent and predictable. The reason we can predict future eclipses decades away, to the minute, for example, is because of Newtonian physics, AND we can count on no God messing with time and stopping the sun like the Bible claims in Joshua 10. Opinions are rarely of equal validity, and when the outcomes of those opinions are as life-altering as that of the supernatural vs natural, it is worth testing to find out which is more likely true!
@@karngry4286 yes and we shouldn't be punished for questioning the existence of something that has yet to be fully proven. u can't reject what u don't know. i'm not rejecting god, i'm questioning the possibility that a god even exists because it has yet to be proven to me. it's the same as saying i reject little martian men that live on planet zeeboo.
When I think back to how my parents turned me into a believer I realize that by the time I can on line I had been sitting at table with them saying grace for 2 to 3 meals a day for several years. So, when my mom taught me a blessing and bedtime prayers, I was already indoctrinated. I was not even aware that I was learning something before the explicit lessons.
Oh yes, I came to believe, or non believe, over many, many years. I have said and believe that when people say “god told or spoke to me” what they are saying is that this is what I want. Even as a young person I realized that the bible was written by men to protect their own personal desires. As an old woman, I’m 86, I have made my peace with religion and no longer profess any particular belief in a god. I await the end with peace and a desire to do good to those I know and love and wish the same for those around me. Peace.
Very thought provoking. I think less religion, an acceptance of death and non-being after death, and as you say "a greater tethering to the real world and to each other" would definitely help everyone. Not a suppression of religion, but not allowing religion to suppress others.
I knew, in my own reasoning, these things as a teenager as I was having religion forced upon me by my church and my parents. I walked away from it over fifty years ago, and am a better person for it.
Very well done video and post. I came out of Christian fundamentalism, but I have not discarded the Spiritual aspect of life. I simply seek to find balance between the two opposing worldviews. My position is that there are Two Universes, one of matter and one of anti matter, and the earth is the converging of these two universes. As such, we are both made of matter and anti matter. We have the aspects of anti matter, such as Thoughts, Feelings and Emotions, imagination, Philosophy and Culture etc. This is what makes our bodies tick and work, we cannot do anything outside of our Physical Framework and what we believe influences us on more than one level. This is why it is important to believe the right things, and to avoid the extreme positions that tend towards fanaticism. I'm happy that more people think like me when it comes to this. As for the suppression of religion, this is something that we should not do. About half of the earth's population are religious, they have the imagination to believe in something outside of themselves, and this is something they will always have. We cannot make them stop believing, but what we can do is offer them a new religion that includes science and a way of looking at things that are in harmony with what we have discovered, and will discover in the future. In a sense, a self correcting religion. If the Two Universe theory is correct, then we have a very diverse population, half is anti matter dominant and the other half is matter dominant. Removing either group can only be done with violence, and that will lead to war. Since matter and energy cannot be destroyed it only goes over to a new form, means that there will be a constant recycling of people, that retain the knowledge and learning and experience that they have had. I know this is borderline new age, but there is an aspect of science and of course magic (Reincarnation) attached to it. Of course finding empirical evidence for what I have written, may prove difficult, since anti matter is not matter and thus cannot be tested using our current technology. In the future we will make new discoveries and as CERN progresses, our understanding of anti matter and the realm it comes from, will be better understood. Then we have the wonders of the Multiverse that adds weight to the conversation. I know many are skeptical, but the dreamers among us can easily imagine how it would work. There is not just one multiverse, but a mirrored one to it, where time moves backwards. For ease of conversation, there are two universes, one of matter and one of antimatter. The gods are simply the inhabitants of the universe of anti matter, that started extremely advanced in technology, but since time regresses they lose tech as time moves on. The Implication of Two Timelines, that progress and regress for an eternity, means that the ability to wage war, one universe against the other, would ultimately end up in the end of the universe. So time must be finite, since we are still here. From our perspective there are no gods. From other perspective, we are the gods. Anyway, enough rant for this post. Be at peace and always explore and dream big. :)
Thank you for your brilliant treatise on the reality of religious institutions. Historically religions have caused great human suffering, i.e. the Spanish Inquisition and multiple wars throughout human history. Political and religious leaders use fear to motivate humans to join their brand and increase their power.
While there were of course things I didn't love about my kids school, one of the most impressive things was seeing courses focused on critical thinking, identifying facts through evidence - and changing your mind when better evidence shows you were wrong, taking into account bias. That alone, was an important step to defusing a lot of thought bombs that face humanity.
@@markomib Indeed, proper schools teach one how to think, not what to think. Dispite all their effords, still few people are capable of presenting their argument in the classical formal manner separating premises and conclusions, as in the wel known classical example: premise 1 : all men are mortal premise 2 : Socrates is a man conclusion : Socrates is mortal Also few people learned the difference between a valid argument and a sound argument. Example of a valid but not sound argument: premise 1 : everything that is blue is a cat premise 2 : my car is blue conclusion : my car is a cat It's valid because the conclusion necessarily follows from the premises however it's not sound because at least one of the premises is incorrect if one is able to think of something that is blue but that is not a cat.
Seth, I just shared your video with Jim Palmer. He was unaware you made the video and seemed very excited about it so most likely you will probably be hearing from him. Just wanted to give you a heads-up.... Great Vid, by the way. I have no doubt Jim will be happy about it. Edit: Just came back to let you know that he has posted it on his FB page and elsewhere on his personal website and pages.
Thank you for sharing, Seth. This is an amazing article. It really articulates a large part of my struggles while I was in religion. I believe his point made @8:55 regarding “my authority is what they taught me in seminary…” could be modified. It seems many pastors operate more from a perspective of “my personal relationship with god is my authority,” which opens greater abuse of congregates. I’m referring to the whole “god tells me I need a private jet so give me your money to buy one.”
Excellent list. I'm puzzled that religious people have not realized this already. Then I meet a religious person and know why. There should be more honest discussions within the theist communities about all this.
Interesting, Seth, that as I listened to and largely agreed with Mr. Palmer's enumerated points, I immediately sat up straighter and scowled at #10. Even before his questionable claim that less religious societies were "no more just or compassionate than religious ones," which seems to be contradicted by the situations seen in many Northern European countries, he stated that, "Becoming less religious will simply force us to perpetuate compassion and cruelty in the name of something else." Ever since I consciously divorced myself from all things metaphysical in favor of being what I think of as an "optimistic realist," I've become increasingly empathetic and kind, and am easily shedding the hubris most religions promote as part of our human birthright. Why Mr. Palmer imagines that I'll simply have to find another justification for my "cruelty" suggests that he's still enthralled with Christianity's assertion that we're inherently wicked and need to be saved from our own dark natures, which I believe is the job of CIVILIZATION. 🙏
Brilliant piece as always good sir. I agree with all apart from where he thinks a lack of religiosity would harm society. I think humanity would be almost infinitely better off without superstitious thinking and delusions. If humanity was humanist and naturalist, and by that I mean if ALL of humanity was actively involved in seriously trying to ensure the wellbeing of one's self, others and the planet, then I'm pretty sure the world would be a much better place
I think his point is worded poorly and incompletely. It isn't that becoming less religious wouldn't be good, it's that being dogmatic doesn't require being religious. It is that being dogmatic is dangerous. We could forge a religion that does what you desire, with supernatural elements. It wouldn't be dangerous _as long_ as it is allowed to evolve and adapt to new information. Of course, I would prefer a non-religious worldview that simply admits when we don't know things, but the danger isn't supernatural ideas, it's the unshakable mindset.
Your key word is ALL. For most people, the key word is, and always will be, ME. I will look after myself and what is mine first. After that is protected and assured then I will think of others, maybe. This is why the world has been, and always will be, a hard place in which to live. Everyone thinks of himself first. And that includes people that some think of as good. Their reason for being good are as selfish as those he do socially bad things.
I agree that less superstition would be better. I found it striking that he mentioned that. He may be looking at it the way religion was forced on populations with violent suppression of existing beliefs or nonbelief. Picturing violent suppression of religion? Whatever the case, we’re definitely better without it. Everything else he said resonated deeply and much of it were concepts that led me out of religion. Thanks for creating this video 😊
Many of the religious people I know are kinda dumb. They seem to benefit from their region as an extension of their thinking capacity. It seems to work for them.
Super informative. The more we know, the more we think critically, the better we are able to free ourselves from the shackles of the most oppressive of all religions - monotheism.
"Religious people should not use government to promote their religious beliefs" equals "Secular society suppression of religious belief" in the persecution complex of the fundamentalist/evangelical Christian mindset. Which is just another example of how they twist, distort, and misrepresent everything in their Christian apologetics rhetoric.
@@steveswangler6373 In fairness however, though it's tempting to do so, it's also intellectually lazy to assert that secular totalitarians and theocratic totalitarians are qualitatively equal. While neither is ideal and both are ultimately hostile to the fundamental dignity, rights and freedom of people, one could rationally argue that theocracy is the much worse option in that it has a nasty tendency to usher its populace into the ignorance of the dark ages. Not exactly the conditions in which progress occurs. For all the faults and flaws of modern secular authoritarian regimes, they are at the very least, for the most part, advanced modern societies. The same cannot be said of the modern examples wherein the clergy becomes the government. So although, I do appreciate most of the points Mr. Palmer is making, I think he misses the mark badly on this particular point.
@@steveswangler6373 He is clearly aiming at an audience in The US. The Soviet Union ceased to exist over 30 years ago, which in this day and age is in reality ancient history, although most Americans still think half of Europe is still communist. Perhaps he is playing on their ignorance? Having said that North Korea and The US are very similar, almost like siblings who cannot cope without an inbred rivalry. Both are pariah states and have leaders who in any other country would have been incarcerated in a secure mental asylum
I also don’t entirely believe one of his claims is accurate, I believe studies have shown that less religious societies are happier and more just. Makes sense, when you have a group of grounded people relying on reality and their senses to make decisions rather than the supernatural and make believe…especially when, as religion in, it is based bigotry, elitism and generally in a lack of understanding of humanity and the world.
Yes, that one didn't sit well with me either. As others have said he may have been referencing suppressive countries like communist Russia, China and Nth Korea but when I think of free, predominantly secularist countries I think of Australia, New Zealand, Finland, The Netherlands and Sweden to name few which are demonstrably much better off
If you believe God is supernatural and can do miracles, the why it is not happening. Means believing in God is nothing but blind faith, delusion. The miracles mentioned in the Bible never happened nor the persons mentioned in it ever existed. It is the stories written by men mixing some ancient kings, nation and PHYLOSOPHY. Do your honest research and be free from the lies.
@@TheTruthKiwi you might want to scrap rhe netherlands of the list. They are starting to make rules that allow religious people to use violence on non-believers, they even implemented a rule that makes it a crjme to burn religious text and a bunch of muslims got to kill somebody who burned a quran which they got a billion copies off. If you got a billion copies of a book then murdering somebody for burning one is just terrorism overall. Like england, the netherlands is falling too :/
@TheTruthKiwi It's also worth noting that at least many of the early Communist theorists were in fact Christian including the mentor of Marx and Engels. I'm pretty sure Communism is actually a byproduct of Christianity. The daily atheist has an article about it called *'The Seed of Communism was a Christian Seed'.*
Religion has been and always will be method to control the masses. Rewards after death keep the faithful going because they think there will be the great reward. The nearly PERFECT con for people who are open to the belief or hedging their bets.
Thank you so much for delivering your thoughtful comments. Your statements were clear and do not deride others while doing so. I agree with you but am not as elegant as you.
Religion arises from the fact we are self aware beings. We are aware of our own mortality, and so we make up ridiculous stories of deities and afterlife.
@honodle7219 Yes I think you’re right. And since producing a coherent and believable world view on our own is a daunting task many of us resort to any of the standard views of the world instead. Thus making us into followers of a belief system that inevitably contains stuff that we did not signed up for. Fear arise when we realize that we are not true to all the doctrinal views and practices within the faith we have chosen. Fear turns into paranoia. Paranoia turns into extremism and terrorism. All this just because we weren’t able to hold back on the temptations presented by these well-packaged world views that came our way. Being born into this world is a dangerous situation when the place is so full of charlatans taking advantage of our “lost souls” and thus put us in the type of harms way that is much worse that death itself. Also worldly and secular views hold the same potential for personal disaster as long as they are not our own well contemplated views and opinions but rather a set of values and attitudes superimposed on us through the system of education for instance. Especially within the political spectrum we often encounter followers of any of the usual doctrines on the left or on the right side of the spectrum that comes across as completely brainwashed and absolutely untrustworthy in their constant ramblings that lack any contact with the actual reality at hand. The whole idea behind the concept of ‘ideology’ is deeply problematic since its foundation is based on the belief that a set of preconceived ideas can deal with any type of situation as a type of blanket solution. An ideologically controlled person is never in real contact with reality but attempts to superimpose a template solution that lack any connection with the real situation at hand. That is in a nutshell what the political establishment is all about and the rest of the world will suffer tremendously because of it.
@@bobs182 It’s still just an idea, albeit shared by more than one person. The whole idea about dogma is to establish a set of ideas for a group to follow. But nevertheless it is just a conceptual formulation about reality that is no longer in direct correlation with reality since it has been conceptualized into a formula.
I think it’s pretty simple zero evidence for God 100% evidence man creates God to me. It’s a no-brainer. I do appreciate what he said for the most part and believe that he’s right for the most part.
Scripture says the following about its relevance, if you are unwilling to consider its contents then it will be zero evidence for you but to those who faithfully understand it it tells us what & why major events have & will happen in this world leading to its destruction. Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets. We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Amos 3:7, 2 Peter 1:19)
Great commentary. Thank you for the link. I am printing it out so I can reread it again and again. It was a very calming experience to hear and read Jim Palmer's commentary. Subscribed.
I am Christian, and I agree. The Pope is not our Lord. And the Pope is still a man and a sinner like all of us. Every pope was like that. So do not treat them like an idol. Treat the pope like a man.
It's strange to me that so many Americans still believe in the bible. I am a 49 years old Italian and I have never met anyone in my life that mentioned the bible to me 😂 our politicians never mention god or the bible either.
When Jim Palmer specified societies that suppressed religion, I think he was referring to authoritarian societies such as the People's Republic of China or the former Soviet Union.
Too bad...maybe you missed something. It has helped millions of people around the world gain appreciation for spirituality in our lives w/o religious doctrines of fear, guilt, judgement, sin, hate, piety, etc., etc...
superstition - noun 1a: a belief or practice resulting from ignorance, fear of the unknown, trust in magic or chance, or a false conception of causation b: an irrational abject attitude of mind toward the supernatural, nature, or God resulting from superstition 2: a notion maintained despite evidence to the contrary Merriam-Webster
As my Sociology professor once defined it, "Superstition is somebody else's religion." I, for one, detest superstition because it clouds the minds and leads the eyes to not see what is there. It takes work to not be superstitious because our minds are built to fill in the blanks and use a mental short hand which is the basis of intelligence and imagination. However, imagination is grand if it can be remembered that it is ONLY imagination and can be helpful or a hinderance.
There is no evidence either way. Your belief or non-belief is a matter of faith, not reasoning. So I have faith in God's existence, you have faith that God doesn't exist.
@@karngry4286 Faith is not a virtue. Faith is gullibility. Faith is the surrender of your mind. Faith is the abandonment of logic and reason. Faith is the surrender of your free will. Faith is weakness.
I, too, was stumped by item *10. Becoming less religious can not save us!* This doesn't make sense unless you recognize that Jim is still an apologetic for religious principles! Some of the most secular countries have the highest happiness index and quality of life!
'Secular society suppression of religion' ... he may be referencing things like the state policy of places like 'very communist' Russia before the dissolution into whatever it is now or North Korea as it is presently.
"I supplant your delusions and replace them with my own" kinds of Religion of the State and Cutls of Personality. And as we can all see this practice is still alive and well with the current cultists plaguing the planet and their worship of demogogues. It's funny how people who criticize the lack of relgion conveniently forger to menton that worshipping a leader is the same f'ing thing.
Communist Russia at its zenith, and present day North Korea both have/had ideologies equivalent to a religion. In both Russian and North Korea a cult of personality substituted for religion. We can see the same thing in today in America in the the unquestioned allegiance to a narcissistic sociopathic conman.
My heartfelt thanks for sharing this knowledge among us. Salute & hope to get more rational video clips for rising up people to ponder and to live together for the betterment of us in the present time and in the future.
Religion, as in the following of one particular church teachings, is either the root of bigotry or used as the justification for bigotry. Bigotry is the entire reason humanity is not living in a prosperous utopia in harmony with nature. Organized religion's role in that makes it one of the core evils of our society.
It actually seems to me, reading some of the news, that Ireland is getting better by "being less religious". The standard reason for The Border was that "Home Rule is Rome Rule", and when Garret Fitzgerald as Taoiseach attempted to reduce the extent to which Irish rule was Vatican rule, the Pope came to persuade him otherwise.
Being less religious won't save us - but it reduces the damage caused to us by religion. Being free of religion is only a starting point. We still have all the work of healing ahead of us.
Me too. On observation it just means that he person has given themselves a break from the drudgery and mundanity of the world and stopped long enough to appreciate what was around them, and tell themselves "Gee I don't know everything" and maybe there are wonders out there, somewhere, and maybe I don't have the ability to predict everything, and can just get high on being alive. That is what it boils down to. It boils down to a person giving themselves to be appreciative and vibrant, and little else. There is no magical flu floo fluffies even if, in their experience, it kind of feels that way.
At 70 I’m glad I was never required to believe in such time wasting nonsense and did the same for our four children. I’m here only because I really enjoy listening to Seth and his stories. Life would be so much better if we were more like the Star Trek characters, don’t you think 🤔? Beam me up Scotty! JustMyThoughts 🙄🙄
@@TheTruthKiwi Capt Kirk (Church) & the Star Ship Enterprise (capitalism) have boldly taken us to where no-one has gone before! But captain ... this is not logical! ... Logic is the beginning of wisdom… not the end! Live long and prosper.
You can notice if somebody is being genuine by their comments and the kinds of statements that people make. I repeatedly and instinctually can tell if somebody is a theist or relgious fantatic by their types of comments. And, generally I can tell somebody is Atheist because their comments seem to be heartfelt, honest, and the person is expressing their genuine appreciation for things. If it is a theist, I can expect a bit of regressive attitude, loudness, brazen coldness, and snarky commentary that is terse. Thank you for your comment. I grew up with a semi-religious mother who was stern, strict, and would lose her mind and blow her top all of the time. When I told her that I didn't believe in god, she freaked out and suddenly started to behave like I was somehow either tainted or doomed and "less than" what she was. It was dispicable how she acted and the comments that came out of her mouth towards her own son, who she already knew was compassionate and more kind to her than any other person of the family, and who had shown her more understanding. But yeah. I've never seen the benefit of religion other than people's rude way of aggrandizing themselves of things that they did not earn.
I’m so glad I never became a missionary! I want to when I was a freshman in high school and was told I would need to take Latin to be able to. But I was failing it in the first couple of weeks and the teacher told me I should switch to another class while I still could before the first 2 weeks were up and that was the end of my attempt to preach Gods word as a profession and wondered why God would let me fail if that was “My Calling” or if the best thing I could do was preach his word!
![Does God Exist? William Lane Craig vs. Christopher Hitchens - Full Debate [HD]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/0tYm41hb48o/mqdefault.jpg)
When I was 10, I asked the priest, "you said god loves us more than our own parents, but also that god will punish us and send us to eternal hell if we do something wrong. Which is it? My own parents wouldn't sent me to my room for the rest of my life if I do something wrong. If god loves me more than my parents, how could he send me to eternal hell if I do something wrong?" The priest said, "you're too young to understand and you must do as god tells you." Right then and there I knew religion was a bunch of bs.
You’re just a bit too smart to need religion
@@montrealbroadway 😁
@@montrealbroadway Rude.
@@angelamaryquitecontrary4609 Im sorry you take it that way, but that’s the way I see it, in aggregate. I was brought up in the church. I rejected the whole thing by the time I was 5 or 6. . Haven’t wavered since
@@montrealbroadway My short response was meant only to engage with your tone, for which I am sorry.
I was brought up in a super Catholic home, where even to imagine for a second that religion was nonsensical would have meant the End Times for the lowly sinner. Me? Of course you, you silly little girl! It was a loving house, but Catholicism was as present as air.
After my mother died, I started to listen to Christopher Hitchens, inter alia. I gradually began to untangle my dislike for the church - the abuse and cover-up had hit the news - from the love of my mother. I am atheist now, although I would quite like a Viking funeral. Or my ashes to be attached to a firework, and sent forth with "Shoot it up" by Sigue Sigue Sputnik blasting out.
I do apologise for my first response to you. It was unbecoming and unfair.
This is an excellent set of observations. I was a Christian, United Methodist pastor for nearly 30 years. I left the Church because I felt I was an impostor trying to teach and preach something that was no longer the “truth” as I was taught. When I did my Ph.D in Comparative Mythology and Religion, that solidified my suspicions about Christianity. No doubt that Christian Evangelicals and Fundamentalist radicals will challenge the 14 points by claiming that it’s the Holy Spirit, only bestowed upon “true believers” that gives them special privileges and power. So, the exclusivity of their beliefs will undoubtedly compel them to continue to avoid critical thinking. Thanks for this liberating video.
And they'll say you were never really saved since you left.
The idea that I could live forever in heaven, if only I would “believe” in a Christian god is hilariously childish. And yet it holds so much power. Mystifying.
As someone who was raised as a mainstream Christian, but never could fully accept/believe the creeds, doctrines, and dogmas, I appreciate Mr. Palmer’s 14 theses. They pretty closely align with my own understanding based on years of study and reflection, but stated much more cogently. I appreciate him and you for making it available.
I am not now, nor have I ever been a Chaplin of anything. As a matter of fact the only Chaplin I recognize is Charlie. 🕊💖🖖
I'm only partial to Father John Mulcahy
Lol
You should look at his great dictator speech at the end of the same titled movie. It is on UA-cam. Charlie was a silent movie star that used his expressions and funny movements to communicate to his audience. But when he made his first talky movie what he said was timeless and phenomenal!
Jimipalmer, his daughter Geraldine acted in a few good movies in the 60s and 70s.😊
The word Seth used was 'chaplain'.
Jim is brilliant. A careful thinker and compassionate writer.
This is absolutely beautiful. Thank you.
This had me in tears ( in a very good way). I would love to be able to send this to my evangelical mother. Her beliefs have harmed our relationship in many ways. However, I will be sharing this with my nephew who is studying to be a professor of philosophy and religion. Thank you Seth for sharing this. 😊
I feel for you as my family is gone
. I get bombarded by religious people. I got use too that. But when family or spouse do this. I try to tolerant but it doesn't work.
The more I read the Bible the more confused I became. I'm agnostic. It's not right to tell people that if your not saved. Then all this bad stuff happens to you.
@@curtishegner9245it's immoral and manipulative for people to say those kinds of things. they think they're doing the best for you, but won't bother to place themselves in your shoes. i know how it feels.
As I watched this I thought about how much I would enjoy sending this to my evangelical homophobic parents and siblings but they severed contact with me when I married my husband.
I'm in the same boat. Religion is devisive
I have had theists confront me at: subway, grocery store, mall, walking down the street, sitting at home, sitting on a mountain top in Colorado, in a computer store, In a dry cleaner store, Target, Walmart, at work, at work, at work, ETC. And more than once at each of these. I am thinking of making a little pamphlet of this to give those people when they hit on me. This is really excellent.
I'm working on a pamphlet taking the reader from the tooth fairy and Leprechauns through Thor and Zeus and more all the way to Yahweh so I can hand it out to some religious person that knocks on my door or confronts me on the street. So go for it I'm with you.
So many confrontations by theists? Maybe the Universe is trying to tell you something.🙂
@@joejoe-lb6bwthat theists are annoying busybodies?
@@joejoe-lb6bwthe universe is telling us that theists are pushy people, with no respect for others.
Case and point of this video... youre confirming your bias by limiting yourself to thinking its a sign from your psyche(yhwh) 👀 have you considered yourself delulu? @joejoe-lb6bw
Thanks for this, especially your last comment about secular society suppressing religion. I didn't want to discourage thought, I want to encourage it so others can come to conclusions on their own. Thanks for all you do.
Religion relies on social pressure to conform. Fear of hell goes with social fear of rejection by one's society/group.
I think this is the evolutionary benefit that it imparted that allowed for it to flourish in earn human societies. It gives cohesion and order. However, like many evolutionary developments, it has its drawbacks.
@@Salamander_falls Yes, we evolved in primitive tribal settings but are now living in modern societies.
@@bobs182 that is of course the most logical end. It makes sense that certain artifices of religion would remain in regional culture, but outlived its usefullness and should fade away
A moral god would not deceive anyone.
@@Salamander_falls I think that we also have an innate tribal/social nature that will be with us for a very long time. We can work to overcome it but it is still there. Evolving for survival doesn't necessarily mean we are structured for knowing what is true especially when it comes to discerning the relationship between our minds and brains.
Everyone is born atheist.
Religion has to be taught.
Atheism doesn't have to be taught.
It's amazing how atheists come up with this sort of nonsense.
Every child knows the natural world is miraculous until they are told nothing is miraculous, it is only blind chemistry
Just as the song says, “You have to be taught from year to year … it has to be drummed in your dear little ear. to hate all the people your relatives hate. You have to be carefully taught.”
More "indoctrinated", "brainwashed", "drummed into" than "taught".
In a funny way, as a believer in Jesus, I agree with you (although probably not for the same reasons). Since I understand atheism to be at its core a rebellious denial of God's existence, I don't believe its a position solely based on objective inquiry, but rather one that is rooted in man's fundamental rebellious condition from birth, outlined by Paul when he states, "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men (my note: speaking of mankind generally, touching on our nature more fundamentally), who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God (my note: knowing in the way a religion teaches God, but knowing in the core of one's being, even if one professes to be atheistic and denies certain [or all] religious concepts of God), they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened" (Rm. 1:18-21). I know you might say that this is just the Bible (which will then lead to arguments regarding the reliability of the Bible, if there is any at all), but I just wanted to state how I agree with you, that man (if one allows for atheism to be the line of thinking that rebels against the natural bent of humanity to believe in some sort of deity) is born into a state of atheistic rebellion of the God who made them.
The point about god being a projection of our own minds is crucial.
I went from Christian to non-Christian theist. When I considered the disparity of conflicting beliefs about the nature of God-- and how my own version of god was so different from the norm-- it suddenly dawned on me: I had created god as I wanted him to be.
And everyone else has done the same.
That's when I became an atheist.
A non-Christian theist is called a Diest.
Makes me wonder how psychopaths view God. Their version of God probably looks more like a normal religious person's view of the devil.
We have a strong capacity and propensity to envision a mind in people in which we interact then project that envisioned mind back onto the person. This capacity is diminished in people on the autism scale making it difficult for them to understand other people's intentions and motives. This capacity gets overused when we project minds onto objects without brains which we call spirits/gods. Our minds are good at projecting as the image of our computer screen which is formed inside our brain/mind is projected back to the source making it seem the image in our head is in front of us.
I won't point out why your reasons for the adoption of atheism are not relevant or have the evidentiary weight to justify your conclusion.
@@OceanusHelios It's spelled "Deist."
Exactly! The training children recieve while working on their magic boat coloring books sets them up to be adults who put people in out-groups.
Dude... Nicely put.
Really and just how this coloring the basis for outgroup bias?
Let's look at some findings of how atheists and theists differ..
The religious experience less anxiety or depression
Believers have significantly less incidents of suicide.
Atheists are more likely to have substance abuse problems than believers.
The religious are far more likely than atheists to have completed a first degree.
Atheists as a group have a higher percentage of autistic spectrum disorders.
Atheists tend to score lower on empathy than the religious. Given empathy has been stressed as a necessary foundation for moral behaviour the lower scores of atheists might mean more difficulty in forming moral behaviours.
Believers donate significantly more to both church and secular charities.
The religious live an average of 4 years longer than atheists
Anglicans, Episcopalians and Jews score higher than atheists on standardized IQ tests.
There is no evidence that the religious are less able to think analytically or critically than atheists.
Over 90 percent of believers are neither biblical literalists nor believe the bible is inerrant.
Maybe its time to drop the claims the religious are suffering from delusions or are mentally ill.--- they are not
@@lightatthecape2009 It's so funny. OP said that theists (Which I am one. I am an Omnist) are taught to "other" people, and you wrote this long ass response othering people. Classic.
Sorry you can't read.
@@lightatthecape2009none of what you wrote(if true) means that what believers are placing their trust in is true; some might find it useful but there’s still no demonstration that it’s true. “90% don’t take the Bible literally?” Can you give a source for that? Not saying you’re wrong but I’d love to dive into that one more.
Would be awesome if Seth could interview Jim Palmer for either a podcast or UA-cam video!
i was always confused when i see people praying to god to heal them.
if u believe in god, why would u want to be healed? wouldn't u rather to be in heaven instead and end all ur suffering?
this just proves what they truly believe deep down.
Agreed. I told my wife if a doctor says "it's incurable", don't wait to he finishes the sentence, just put me down.
@@joejoe-lb6bw lol...exactly !
My thoughts as well.
Exactly. I always wonder why they cry at funerals. They should celebrate that auntie Jess is playing banjo with Elvis in heaven.
Very strange, unless they have a sneaky suspicion that auntie is gone forever 😢
It shows that you know very little about prayer. I probably thought that when I was about seven and beginning to think about prayer. I am now in my seventies, I still believe in prayer and still practice it and one day I have hope that I will be in heaven. As a very wise man of my acquaintance once said: "Prayer is like talking to a friend."
Outstanding points!! Palmer represents "courage and intelligence!!!"
Agree, well spoken.
Being an atheist for my entire life, I tend to think that God is just a religious Ghost that people fear and run to when they're unhappy. I've never been in this state in my seventy-two years and don't expect to ever do this. The books were never shoved down my neck.
7. People are born human, and are slowly conditioned by narratives of race, religion, gender and nationality to be less than human.
So true. I just hadn't realized the recent rise of identity politics was just a more weaponized and strident version of an existing phenomenon.
Racism, churches, street gangs, sports team support, and nationalism are all manifestations of our tribal nature.
Identity politics dates from the Renaissance, with nationalism and Protestant denominations. The leftist versions date from the Age of Enlightenment, with revolutions.
Well said!
Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Matthew:5:43
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Matthew:5:44
What about this recommendation of Jesus makes you "less than human" I wonder? Would the world not be a better place if people actually followed this? As opposed to the sh1tshow it currently is? Of course nobody follows this. Just today I had the "pleasure" of watching a video by "Inspiring Philosophy" where he repeated his statement of "be nice to me and I'll be nice to you, be mean to me and I'll be mean to you". And that's the typical evangelical apologetics channel. They're all like that. So, yes, organized religion is a self-righteous circus. Doesn't mean that Jesus's ideas would have made us less than human if people would follow them. Not all of it, mind you, but the sermon on the mount has some nice stuff in it.
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
1 Thessalonians:5:21
Damn, this is the best I have heard in a long time. Will save this in my library for use in debates.
Not only do you have the most interesting and enlightening podcasts, but you also find some of the most enlightening ideas from others, and this is a great one. Many thanks!
Thank you Seth I really appreciate you presenting this material.
As an ex fundamentalist evangelical, I’m with you, Seth. For me, the bottom line is always Truth. The question must always be, Is it True? That is the only way to make the best choices for ourselves, as well as our society. Even the most inoffensive religious belief systems introduce unsupported claims and take us away from the path of Truth, robbing us of the ability to make the best decisions in our lives.
exactly. i'm not here to reject god...i'm here to find the truth. questioning the existence of a god is not the same as rejecting him. i can't reject something i'm not even sure exists in the first place . if it's fully revealed that god does exist and i go with satan, then yes i'm now rejecting god. it's like asking someone who grew up without a father who's father left at birth and u ask them, did u reject ur father? how could they reject their father when he was never around !
Well, the claim that God doesn't exist is as unprovable as the claim that God does exist. So both beliefs are a matter of faith, not of scientific evidence. Therefore, one claim is as vaid as the other. So which you chose is a product of your physical and emotional environment and your personal mental makeup. It is a silly argument for people of one belief to denigrate a person holding the opposite belief (and I emphasize the word belief). We will find (or not find) the truth of our belief when we die. Either an after-life will be there or we won't even know that we are dead.
@@karngry4286 Incorrect. The two claims can be evaluated, tested in many, many ways, and the claim of the supernatural is never supported by actual evidence, whereas natural processes are consistent and predictable. The reason we can predict future eclipses decades away, to the minute, for example, is because of Newtonian physics, AND we can count on no God messing with time and stopping the sun like the Bible claims in Joshua 10. Opinions are rarely of equal validity, and when the outcomes of those opinions are as life-altering as that of the supernatural vs natural, it is worth testing to find out which is more likely true!
@@karngry4286 yes and we shouldn't be punished for questioning the existence of something that has yet to be fully proven. u can't reject what u don't know. i'm not rejecting god, i'm questioning the possibility that a god even exists because it has yet to be proven to me. it's the same as saying i reject little martian men that live on planet zeeboo.
Thank you Seth. That's really awesome. Great explanation. ❤
Thank you for this video and for sharing the link. Much appreciated. 👍
When I think back to how my parents turned me into a believer I realize that by the time I can on line I had been sitting at table with them saying grace for 2 to 3 meals a day for several years. So, when my mom taught me a blessing and bedtime prayers, I was already indoctrinated. I was not even aware that I was learning something before the explicit lessons.
Having been new to coming out of the evangelical movement, I can relate to so much of this. Thank you for a beautiful presentation.
I came out of it 40 years ago. Congratulations! It's not easy as you deal with all the scars and hurt it inflicted but it is worth it.
Oh yes, I came to believe, or non believe, over many, many years. I have said and believe that when people say “god told or spoke to me” what they are saying is that this is what I want. Even as a young person I realized that the bible was written by men to protect their own personal desires. As an old woman, I’m 86, I have made my peace with religion and no longer profess any particular belief in a god. I await the end with peace and a desire to do good to those I know and love and wish the same for those around me. Peace.
"You cannot petition the Lord with prayer!" - Jim Morrison (The Doors, The Soft Parade)
I just need a place for me to hide…
You mean the guy who died of a drug overdose in a sleazy french hotel? Not exactly the kind of guy you would want to listen to.
@@tomthx5804 Too bad we can't point fingers at the authors of 'accepted' scripts like the bible, all unknown. No drugs or sleaze back then?
@@tomthx5804 Oh puleeze! It's the lyrics to a song.
If I need someone to tell me who I should listen to, I may as well join a church.
@tomthx5804 You are telling people the truth, and we know people don't want to hear the truth.
Brilliant! Thanks so much for sharing ❤
Thank you,,something to start my day off !
Very thought provoking. I think less religion, an acceptance of death and non-being after death, and as you say "a greater tethering to the real world and to each other" would definitely help everyone. Not a suppression of religion, but not allowing religion to suppress others.
I knew, in my own reasoning, these things as a teenager as I was having religion forced upon me by my church and my parents. I walked away from it over fifty years ago, and am a better person for it.
Very well done video and post. I came out of Christian fundamentalism, but I have not discarded the Spiritual aspect of life. I simply seek to find balance between the two opposing worldviews. My position is that there are Two Universes, one of matter and one of anti matter, and the earth is the converging of these two universes. As such, we are both made of matter and anti matter. We have the aspects of anti matter, such as Thoughts, Feelings and Emotions, imagination, Philosophy and Culture etc. This is what makes our bodies tick and work, we cannot do anything outside of our Physical Framework and what we believe influences us on more than one level. This is why it is important to believe the right things, and to avoid the extreme positions that tend towards fanaticism.
I'm happy that more people think like me when it comes to this.
As for the suppression of religion, this is something that we should not do. About half of the earth's population are religious, they have the imagination to believe in something outside of themselves, and this is something they will always have. We cannot make them stop believing, but what we can do is offer them a new religion that includes science and a way of looking at things that are in harmony with what we have discovered, and will discover in the future. In a sense, a self correcting religion.
If the Two Universe theory is correct, then we have a very diverse population, half is anti matter dominant and the other half is matter dominant. Removing either group can only be done with violence, and that will lead to war. Since matter and energy cannot be destroyed it only goes over to a new form, means that there will be a constant recycling of people, that retain the knowledge and learning and experience that they have had. I know this is borderline new age, but there is an aspect of science and of course magic (Reincarnation) attached to it.
Of course finding empirical evidence for what I have written, may prove difficult, since anti matter is not matter and thus cannot be tested using our current technology. In the future we will make new discoveries and as CERN progresses, our understanding of anti matter and the realm it comes from, will be better understood.
Then we have the wonders of the Multiverse that adds weight to the conversation. I know many are skeptical, but the dreamers among us can easily imagine how it would work. There is not just one multiverse, but a mirrored one to it, where time moves backwards. For ease of conversation, there are two universes, one of matter and one of antimatter. The gods are simply the inhabitants of the universe of anti matter, that started extremely advanced in technology, but since time regresses they lose tech as time moves on.
The Implication of Two Timelines, that progress and regress for an eternity, means that the ability to wage war, one universe against the other, would ultimately end up in the end of the universe. So time must be finite, since we are still here.
From our perspective there are no gods. From other perspective, we are the gods.
Anyway, enough rant for this post. Be at peace and always explore and dream big. :)
Thank you for your brilliant treatise on the reality of religious institutions. Historically religions have caused great human suffering, i.e. the Spanish Inquisition and multiple wars throughout human history. Political and religious leaders use fear to motivate humans to join their brand and increase their power.
Seems like the truth has set Mr. Palmer free. Good for him.
I wouldn't get to excited. Remember he is a preacher so he only wants money and power.
This should be taught to all high schoolers.
Amen brada
While there were of course things I didn't love about my kids school, one of the most impressive things was seeing courses focused on critical thinking, identifying facts through evidence - and changing your mind when better evidence shows you were wrong, taking into account bias. That alone, was an important step to defusing a lot of thought bombs that face humanity.
By high school it's usually too late.
@@markomib Indeed, proper schools teach one how to think, not what to think. Dispite all their effords, still few people are capable of presenting their argument in the classical formal manner separating premises and conclusions, as in the wel known classical example:
premise 1 : all men are mortal
premise 2 : Socrates is a man
conclusion : Socrates is mortal
Also few people learned the difference between a valid argument and a sound argument. Example of a valid but not sound argument:
premise 1 : everything that is blue is a cat
premise 2 : my car is blue
conclusion : my car is a cat
It's valid because the conclusion necessarily follows from the premises however it's not sound because at least one of the premises is incorrect if one is able to think of something that is blue but that is not a cat.
I did this under the guise of scientific methodology. The politics of it are stultifying. My colleagues won't touch it w a 10 foot stick.
Seth, I just shared your video with Jim Palmer. He was unaware you made the video and seemed very excited about it so most likely you will probably be hearing from him. Just wanted to give you a heads-up.... Great Vid, by the way. I have no doubt Jim will be happy about it.
Edit: Just came back to let you know that he has posted it on his FB page and elsewhere on his personal website and pages.
Many thanks. I'd sent it to his DM, but he likely doesn't check it.
@@TheThinkingAtheist My pleasure, Seth. Great job on the vid, although, all your content is great. Let's keep'em thinkin'. 😇
Thank you for sharing, Seth. This is an amazing article. It really articulates a large part of my struggles while I was in religion.
I believe his point made @8:55 regarding “my authority is what they taught me in seminary…” could be modified. It seems many pastors operate more from a perspective of “my personal relationship with god is my authority,” which opens greater abuse of congregates. I’m referring to the whole “god tells me I need a private jet so give me your money to buy one.”
Excellent list. I'm puzzled that religious people have not realized this already. Then I meet a religious person and know why.
There should be more honest discussions within the theist communities about all this.
Great video and as always Seth, your commentary is brilliant. Thanks for posting.
Interesting, Seth, that as I listened to and largely agreed with Mr. Palmer's enumerated points, I immediately sat up straighter and scowled at #10. Even before his questionable claim that less religious societies were "no more just or compassionate than religious ones," which seems to be contradicted by the situations seen in many Northern European countries, he stated that, "Becoming less religious will simply force us to perpetuate compassion and cruelty in the name of something else." Ever since I consciously divorced myself from all things metaphysical in favor of being what I think of as an "optimistic realist," I've become increasingly empathetic and kind, and am easily shedding the hubris most religions promote as part of our human birthright. Why Mr. Palmer imagines that I'll simply have to find another justification for my "cruelty" suggests that he's still enthralled with Christianity's assertion that we're inherently wicked and need to be saved from our own dark natures, which I believe is the job of CIVILIZATION. 🙏
This one's excellent, Seth.
Worth repeating! (And sharing.) Thank you! 😀👏
This was truly amazing! It should replace the Ten Commandments wherever they are displayed.
Every Louisiana classroom.
Very awesome and Very True!!!
Thanks for the video! A pity that what is supposed to be commonsense may come as a surprise and even be rejected by some.
What both of you say is absolutely brilliant and absolutely correct!! Nice video, thank you for what you do!! ❤
Brilliant piece as always good sir. I agree with all apart from where he thinks a lack of religiosity would harm society. I think humanity would be almost infinitely better off without superstitious thinking and delusions.
If humanity was humanist and naturalist, and by that I mean if ALL of humanity was actively involved in seriously trying to ensure the wellbeing of one's self, others and the planet, then I'm pretty sure the world would be a much better place
I think his point is worded poorly and incompletely. It isn't that becoming less religious wouldn't be good, it's that being dogmatic doesn't require being religious. It is that being dogmatic is dangerous.
We could forge a religion that does what you desire, with supernatural elements. It wouldn't be dangerous _as long_ as it is allowed to evolve and adapt to new information.
Of course, I would prefer a non-religious worldview that simply admits when we don't know things, but the danger isn't supernatural ideas, it's the unshakable mindset.
Your key word is ALL. For most people, the key word is, and always will be, ME. I will look after myself and what is mine first. After that is protected and assured then I will think of others, maybe. This is why the world has been, and always will be, a hard place in which to live. Everyone thinks of himself first. And that includes people that some think of as good. Their reason for being good are as selfish as those he do socially bad things.
@@Rogstin Yes, dogmatic fundamentalism is never a good thing.
@@karngray4340 Yup, that's true man. And the apathetic are also as bad.
We could hope so! 😮
I agree that less superstition would be better. I found it striking that he mentioned that. He may be looking at it the way religion was forced on populations with violent suppression of existing beliefs or nonbelief. Picturing violent suppression of religion? Whatever the case, we’re definitely better without it. Everything else he said resonated deeply and much of it were concepts that led me out of religion. Thanks for creating this video 😊
China vs. Tibet is a good example of the violent suppression of religion. Free Tibet!
Excellent video as usual.... Thank you Seth!
This is brilliant. I wish every religious person could see this. 🤘
Many of the religious people I know are kinda dumb. They seem to benefit from their region as an extension of their thinking capacity. It seems to work for them.
Freedom of thought is a wonderful thing!
Super informative. The more we know, the more we think critically, the better we are able to free ourselves from the shackles of the most oppressive of all religions - monotheism.
Thanks Seth. This was very informative!
Excellent - thanks Seth. Absolutely true.
"Religious people should not use government to promote their religious beliefs" equals "Secular society suppression of religious belief" in the persecution complex of the fundamentalist/evangelical Christian mindset.
Which is just another example of how they twist, distort, and misrepresent everything in their Christian apologetics rhetoric.
as someone else commented, i think he was referring to repressive governments like North Korea and the Soviet Union.
@@steveswangler6373 In fairness however, though it's tempting to do so, it's also intellectually lazy to assert that secular totalitarians and theocratic totalitarians are qualitatively equal. While neither is ideal and both are ultimately hostile to the fundamental dignity, rights and freedom of people, one could rationally argue that theocracy is the much worse option in that it has a nasty tendency to usher its populace into the ignorance of the dark ages. Not exactly the conditions in which progress occurs. For all the faults and flaws of modern secular authoritarian regimes, they are at the very least, for the most part, advanced modern societies. The same cannot be said of the modern examples wherein the clergy becomes the government. So although, I do appreciate most of the points Mr. Palmer is making, I think he misses the mark badly on this particular point.
@@steveswangler6373 He is clearly aiming at an audience in The US. The Soviet Union ceased to exist over 30 years ago, which in this day and age is in reality ancient history, although most Americans still think half of Europe is still communist. Perhaps he is playing on their ignorance? Having said that North Korea and The US are very similar, almost like siblings who cannot cope without an inbred rivalry. Both are pariah states and have leaders who in any other country would have been incarcerated in a secure mental asylum
It also shows that religion is a fear-based philosophy.
@@darlalathan6143 I'm afraid you might be right.
Absolutely fantastic. Everyone should watch this.
I just found Jim on Facebook and immediately subscribed to his substack. I've really enjoyed his perspective
Outstanding. Thanks for posting this.
I also don’t entirely believe one of his claims is accurate, I believe studies have shown that less religious societies are happier and more just. Makes sense, when you have a group of grounded people relying on reality and their senses to make decisions rather than the supernatural and make believe…especially when, as religion in, it is based bigotry, elitism and generally in a lack of understanding of humanity and the world.
Yes, that one didn't sit well with me either. As others have said he may have been referencing suppressive countries like communist Russia, China and Nth Korea but when I think of free, predominantly secularist countries I think of Australia, New Zealand, Finland, The Netherlands and Sweden to name few which are demonstrably much better off
If you believe God is supernatural and can do miracles, the why it is not happening. Means believing in God is nothing but blind faith, delusion. The miracles mentioned in the Bible never happened nor the persons mentioned in it ever existed. It is the stories written by men mixing some ancient kings, nation and PHYLOSOPHY. Do your honest research and be free from the lies.
@@TheTruthKiwi you might want to scrap rhe netherlands of the list. They are starting to make rules that allow religious people to use violence on non-believers, they even implemented a rule that makes it a crjme to burn religious text and a bunch of muslims got to kill somebody who burned a quran which they got a billion copies off.
If you got a billion copies of a book then murdering somebody for burning one is just terrorism overall.
Like england, the netherlands is falling too :/
@TheTruthKiwi It's also worth noting that at least many of the early Communist theorists were in fact Christian including the mentor of Marx and Engels. I'm pretty sure Communism is actually a byproduct of Christianity. The daily atheist has an article about it called *'The Seed of Communism was a Christian Seed'.*
China suppressed Tibetan religion, how did that work out?
Thank you for the conversation. It’s reasonable.
The history of "the bible" is interesting. After the books were gathered from history, the Catholic Church decided what was important for you to know.
King James retranslated it and cut out alot.
Thank you.
Religion has been and always will be method to control the masses. Rewards after death keep the faithful going because they think there will be the great reward. The nearly PERFECT con for people who are open to the belief or hedging their bets.
So gracefully blunt , even to the point of being uncomfortable . I have to accept that truth owes me no comfort.
Jim Palmer's 14 points are exactly right.
Thank you so much for delivering your thoughtful comments. Your statements were clear and do not deride others while doing so. I agree with you but am not as elegant as you.
Religion arises from the fact we are self aware beings. We are aware of our own mortality, and so we make up ridiculous stories of deities and afterlife.
@honodle7219 Yes I think you’re right. And since producing a coherent and believable world view on our own is a daunting task many of us resort to any of the standard views of the world instead. Thus making us into followers of a belief system that inevitably contains stuff that we did not signed up for. Fear arise when we realize that we are not true to all the doctrinal views and practices within the faith we have chosen. Fear turns into paranoia. Paranoia turns into extremism and terrorism.
All this just because we weren’t able to hold back on the temptations presented by these well-packaged world views that came our way. Being born into this world is a dangerous situation when the place is so full of charlatans taking advantage of our “lost souls” and thus put us in the type of harms way that is much worse that death itself.
Also worldly and secular views hold the same potential for personal disaster as long as they are not our own well contemplated views and opinions but rather a set of values and attitudes superimposed on us through the system of education for instance. Especially within the political spectrum we often encounter followers of any of the usual doctrines on the left or on the right side of the spectrum that comes across as completely brainwashed and absolutely untrustworthy in their constant ramblings that lack any contact with the actual reality at hand. The whole idea behind the concept of ‘ideology’ is deeply problematic since its foundation is based on the belief that a set of preconceived ideas can deal with any type of situation as a type of blanket solution. An ideologically controlled person is never in real contact with reality but attempts to superimpose a template solution that lack any connection with the real situation at hand. That is in a nutshell what the political establishment is all about and the rest of the world will suffer tremendously because of it.
Are you telling me that I have not spent my whole life guided and protected by tree-elves so that I might spend my afterlife in the Eternal Garden?
Especially when medical science and technology prolong and improve our lives.
To be a religion it has to be part of a group/tribe identity otherwise it is just an idea.
@@bobs182 It’s still just an idea, albeit shared by more than one person. The whole idea about dogma is to establish a set of ideas for a group to follow. But nevertheless it is just a conceptual formulation about reality that is no longer in direct correlation with reality since it has been conceptualized into a formula.
This is certainly a deep breath of fresh air! 👍👍👍
Simply.......brilliant
Wow, Seth! Fantastic. 👍💙💙💙🥰✌
I think it’s pretty simple zero evidence for God 100% evidence man creates God to me. It’s a no-brainer. I do appreciate what he said for the most part and believe that he’s right for the most part.
Scripture says the following about its relevance, if you are unwilling to consider its contents then it will be zero evidence for you but to those who faithfully understand it it tells us what & why major events have & will happen in this world leading to its destruction.
Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Amos 3:7, 2 Peter 1:19)
Great commentary. Thank you for the link. I am printing it out so I can reread it again and again. It was a very calming experience to hear and read Jim Palmer's commentary. Subscribed.
Yep. And he left out pope on the list of people who have no divine authority 👍
And ayatollahs!
The pope is accounted for in the term "clergy", as in order to become pope, the candidate must be in the priesthood.
@@darlalathan6143 Ayatollahs would fall under the prevue of "clergy", as they are a religious figure in their faith.
I am Christian, and I agree. The Pope is not our Lord. And the Pope is still a man and a sinner like all of us. Every pope was like that. So do not treat them like an idol. Treat the pope like a man.
Thank you for this excellent, well-articulated message.
It's strange to me that so many Americans still believe in the bible. I am a 49 years old Italian and I have never met anyone in my life that mentioned the bible to me 😂 our politicians never mention god or the bible either.
Thanks for sharing. What a thoughtful and well written piece.
When Jim Palmer specified societies that suppressed religion, I think he was referring to authoritarian societies such as the People's Republic of China or the former Soviet Union.
Thanks for that Seth. Your so awesome.
I really liked this summary.
Great and well read.
12-steppers runied the word "spiritual" for me forever.
Too bad...maybe you missed something. It has helped millions of people around the world gain appreciation for spirituality in our lives w/o religious doctrines of fear, guilt, judgement, sin, hate, piety, etc., etc...
I appreciate Jim Palmer’s great work.
superstition - noun
1a: a belief or practice resulting from ignorance, fear of the unknown, trust in magic or chance, or a false conception of causation
b: an irrational abject attitude of mind toward the supernatural, nature, or God resulting from superstition
2: a notion maintained despite evidence to the contrary
Merriam-Webster
As my Sociology professor once defined it, "Superstition is somebody else's religion." I, for one, detest superstition because it clouds the minds and leads the eyes to not see what is there. It takes work to not be superstitious because our minds are built to fill in the blanks and use a mental short hand which is the basis of intelligence and imagination. However, imagination is grand if it can be remembered that it is ONLY imagination and can be helpful or a hinderance.
There is no evidence either way. Your belief or non-belief is a matter of faith, not reasoning. So I have faith in God's existence, you have faith that God doesn't exist.
@@karngry4286 Faith is not a virtue. Faith is gullibility. Faith is the surrender of your mind. Faith is the abandonment of logic and reason. Faith is the surrender of your free will. Faith is weakness.
I, too, was stumped by item *10. Becoming less religious can not save us!* This doesn't make sense unless you recognize that Jim is still an apologetic for religious principles! Some of the most secular countries have the highest happiness index and quality of life!
God is also a human invention.
"Atheism is a disease of the soul, before it becomes an error of understanding." Plato
@@trollemctrollersen not t really
@@johnwright-b2l Look at you. A knee jerk reaction.
You’ll know the day of your last Breath .
"The man who invented God was a wise man." Plato
This was just amazing!
Thank you!
'Secular society suppression of religion' ... he may be referencing things like the state policy of places like 'very communist' Russia before the dissolution into whatever it is now or North Korea as it is presently.
That was my thought as well.
North Korea even banned wearing shorts for women. It's too western, i guess? lol
"I supplant your delusions and replace them with my own" kinds of Religion of the State and Cutls of Personality. And as we can all see this practice is still alive and well with the current cultists plaguing the planet and their worship of demogogues. It's funny how people who criticize the lack of relgion conveniently forger to menton that worshipping a leader is the same f'ing thing.
Communist Russia at its zenith, and present day North Korea both have/had ideologies equivalent to a religion. In both Russian and North Korea a cult of personality substituted for religion. We can see the same thing in today in America in the the unquestioned allegiance to a narcissistic sociopathic conman.
Ironically, Communism seems to have come from Christianity.
My heartfelt thanks for sharing this knowledge among us. Salute & hope to get more rational video clips for rising up people to ponder and to live together for the betterment of us in the present time and in the future.
"Being less religious won't save us"
I disagree.
Religion, as in the following of one particular church teachings, is either the root of bigotry or used as the justification for bigotry.
Bigotry is the entire reason humanity is not living in a prosperous utopia in harmony with nature.
Organized religion's role in that makes it one of the core evils of our society.
Less religious extremism would be helpful.
It actually seems to me, reading some of the news, that Ireland is getting better by "being less religious". The standard reason for The Border was that "Home Rule is Rome Rule", and when Garret Fitzgerald as Taoiseach attempted to reduce the extent to which Irish rule was Vatican rule, the Pope came to persuade him otherwise.
Keeping it out of politics and women's' bodies would help.
Being less religious won't save us - but it reduces the damage caused to us by religion.
Being free of religion is only a starting point. We still have all the work of healing ahead of us.
great video seth ,thank you
I don't like the use of the word "spiritual" or "spiritually" it often means "supernatural" which brings us
back to imaginary unproven myths.
Me too. On observation it just means that he person has given themselves a break from the drudgery and mundanity of the world and stopped long enough to appreciate what was around them, and tell themselves "Gee I don't know everything" and maybe there are wonders out there, somewhere, and maybe I don't have the ability to predict everything, and can just get high on being alive. That is what it boils down to. It boils down to a person giving themselves to be appreciative and vibrant, and little else. There is no magical flu floo fluffies even if, in their experience, it kind of feels that way.
Your videos are always engaging and even challenging. Love your work , thanks
This Jim Palmer has a better fastball than the Oriole pitcher. A perfect game sir. Thank you.
I was hoping someone would mention that 😅😅😅😅
Thank you! 🖖
Spiritual can also mean drunk.
Thank you so much for sharing this interesting and insightful article!
At 70 I’m glad I was never required to believe in such time wasting nonsense and did the same for our four children. I’m here only because I really enjoy listening to Seth and his stories. Life would be so much better if we were more like the Star Trek characters, don’t you think 🤔? Beam me up Scotty!
JustMyThoughts 🙄🙄
I suppose you think you're Captain Kirk do you? Allright then, I'll be Spock. 🤭
@@TheTruthKiwi Capt Kirk (Church) & the Star Ship Enterprise (capitalism) have boldly taken us to where no-one has gone before! But captain ... this is not logical! ... Logic is the beginning of wisdom… not the end! Live long and prosper.
At least there would be fewer justifications for war and discrimination, without religion.
You can notice if somebody is being genuine by their comments and the kinds of statements that people make. I repeatedly and instinctually can tell if somebody is a theist or relgious fantatic by their types of comments. And, generally I can tell somebody is Atheist because their comments seem to be heartfelt, honest, and the person is expressing their genuine appreciation for things. If it is a theist, I can expect a bit of regressive attitude, loudness, brazen coldness, and snarky commentary that is terse. Thank you for your comment.
I grew up with a semi-religious mother who was stern, strict, and would lose her mind and blow her top all of the time. When I told her that I didn't believe in god, she freaked out and suddenly started to behave like I was somehow either tainted or doomed and "less than" what she was. It was dispicable how she acted and the comments that came out of her mouth towards her own son, who she already knew was compassionate and more kind to her than any other person of the family, and who had shown her more understanding. But yeah.
I've never seen the benefit of religion other than people's rude way of aggrandizing themselves of things that they did not earn.
I’m so glad I never became a missionary! I want to when I was a freshman in high school and was told I would need to take Latin to be able to. But I was failing it in the first couple of weeks and the teacher told me I should switch to another class while I still could before the first 2 weeks were up and that was the end of my attempt to preach Gods word as a profession and wondered why God would let me fail if that was “My Calling” or if the best thing I could do was preach his word!