I don't think you should hesitate to reach out to self proclaimed progressives. Challenge them on their ideas and try to have a rational conversation. It was through talking to people like this who challenged my ideas that I eventually stopped considering myself a progressive and sought out the answers that I was unable to really answer. So, while anecdotal, I still think this means that engaging is a good idea (as long as you do it rationally. Like he said: starting the conversation by writing "taxation is theft" in all caps isn't going to help foster an intelligent conversation.)
How do you have a conversation with people who do not believe in objective truth ; That people of different races, genders, sexuality have no common humanity ?
Jeff, you give the leftists too much credit. Social contract theory is after the fact. They think with feelings and say what they want as outcomes, and therefore that's what government will do. Social contract theory is taking this feeling-thinking and then trying to build a formal framework around the feelings.
SJWs always lie. Jeff Deist is just using a slightly more adult version of Vox Day's conclusions. The LP is playing with fire by courting progressives.
I'm not sure I understand your question. Is your question that Deist is using love and logic to describe the trouble with progressives? Or that the LP is courting progressives with love and logic?
Well, you have to start somewhere... I was a Red Diaper baby, my Great Uncle was Herbert Biberman and my Grandfather was Harry Sacher. I grew up in Manhattan in the 60s and 70s and went to the same high school as Oppenheimer and studied physics in the Oppenheimer Lab there (Ethical Culture Fieldston)- then went to Reed College (Steve Jobs' and Dr. Demento's alma mater). PS, I almost went to Birch Wathen, Murray Rothbard's alma mater, but it wasn't as good then as Fieldston.
Oh go away. Google my name. I'm friends with Dr. Woods and Dr. Murphy and a NH Free State Project original member. And as to the NRA- I am a Bar 4 sharpshooter and was friends with Charlton Heston. My Grandfather Abner Biberman was Tony Curtis' first drama coach. And Janet Leigh was like an aunt.
Battle of the freedoms - economic vs. social. Neoliberalism, the 45-yr. global economic policy, is an ideology founded by libertarian economist, Freidrich von Hayek and promoted by libertarians Milton Friedman, James Buchanan, the Koch brothers and others. The Rep Party is today dominated by this radical right, who claim to be all about economic freedom. They hate laws that restrain them in any way, especially environmental protections. Libertarians' idea of liberty actually depends on economic inequality. It's their "human right". Economic freedom over liberty for all. Isn't that un-American? "Aryeh Neier, founder of Human Rights Watch and its executive director for 12 years, doesn’t hide his contempt for the idea of economic equality as one of the key human rights. Neier is so opposed to the idea of economic equality that he even equates the very idea of economic equality and justice with oppression-economic rights to him are a violation of human rights, rather than essential human rights, thereby completely inverting traditional left thinking. Here’s what Neier wrote in his memoir, Taking Liberties: “The concept of economic and social rights is profoundly undemocratic... Authoritarian power is probably a prerequisite for giving meaning to economic and social rights.” Neier here is aping free-market libertarian mandarins like Friedrich von Hayek, or Hayek’s libertarian forefathers like William Graham Sumner, the robber baron mandarin and notorious laissez-faire Social Darwinist. As with Neier, William Graham Sumner argued that liberty has an inverse relationship to economic equality; according to Sumner, the more economic equality, the less liberty; whereas the greater the inequality in a society, the more liberty its individuals enjoy. It’s the fundamental equation underlying all libertarian ideology and politics-a robber baron’s ideology at heart." thedailybanter.com/2012/06/the-quiet-extermination-of-labor-rights-from-human-rights/
In his new book, A New Foreign Policy: Beyond American Exceptionalism, Jeffrey Sachs addresses the fact that we don't look after each other at all in America today. We don't because the small radical right group led by libertarian Koch money wants it that way. No healthy government fiscal policy, no healthy society. Sachs discusses the quality of life and the environmentally-friendly infrastructure in Stockholm, Oslo and Copenhagen. "They're not falling apart, actually, they're kinda gorgeous!" Every worker enjoys 5 or 6 weeks summer paid vacation as a matter of every workers' right. They are living very, very comfortably and productively. In other words, they are living in the 21st century. So why this agenda to hold America back in some Orwellian neofeudalism? This is no longer the prototype to expand worldwide as it actually was, to "reduce the rest of the world to serfdom". But libertarianism failed after the 2008 crash. Neoliberalism is no longer respected as an economic policy anymore. Nations are fed up with the IMF and World Bank's austerity programs that are only meant to sink them deeper into debt so they must forfeit their national resources and assets. It's an asset-purchasing scam by the private banking industry. It may be an oligarchy, but it's a deflating one.
For 45 years, libertarian-led economic policy has meant taking government investment completely off the table when it comes to stimulating the real economy. The focus has only been on pumping trillions into the finance sector. Smarter nations know this strategy would mean the unraveling of society. "Libertarians are intellectually immature, frozen in the worldview many of them absorbed from reading Ayn Rand novels in high school. Like other ideologues, libertarians react to the world’s failing to conform to their model by asking where the world went wrong. Their heroic view of capitalism makes it difficult for them to accept that markets can be irrational, misunderstand risk, and misallocate resources or that financial systems without vigorous government oversight and the capacity for pragmatic intervention constitute a recipe for disaster. They are bankrupt, and this time, there will be no bailout." Not all nations are as abusive to their citizenry as the US is because their "leaders" are not so fearful. They use fiscal policy (government investment) wisely, maintaining high quality social services that are not exploitative. They are living in the 21st century while libertarian (Koch)-led US policies have been trying to lock us in a neofeudal timewarp over the past four decades. The citizens in Scandinavian countries understand economics better than we do. When we finally end the lies, we can get on track to proper investment again. "The Government is not like a household. A government is like a bank. And a government running a balanced budget is like a bank that simply lends back as much as it gets in repayments, therefore the money supply never grows and without that, you don't have a growing economy. It's one of two ways to create money, and if you don't let government create money by spending more than they take back in taxation (fiscal policy), you have to rely on the private banking system to create the money/credit (monetary policy) and you therefore get private debt bubbles." ~ Prof. Steve Keen
Watching in 2022...NAILED IT...state power is now radically consolidating.
JEFF and TOM and ALL the Mises Geniuses are the last best hope of Mankind. I LOVE YOU ALL. You have given me SO MUCH. THANKS.
I don't think you should hesitate to reach out to self proclaimed progressives. Challenge them on their ideas and try to have a rational conversation. It was through talking to people like this who challenged my ideas that I eventually stopped considering myself a progressive and sought out the answers that I was unable to really answer.
So, while anecdotal, I still think this means that engaging is a good idea (as long as you do it rationally. Like he said: starting the conversation by writing "taxation is theft" in all caps isn't going to help foster an intelligent conversation.)
SPOT ON. :)
How do you have a conversation with people who do not believe in objective truth ; That people of different races, genders, sexuality have no common humanity ?
Natural rights and consequentialism are both on our side, so we should use both argumemts where appropriate.
Awesome speech Jeff. You keep impressing me. Great Job
I think time has confirmed that Jeff Deist was an excellent choice for president of the Mises Institute. Just saying.
Indubitably so.
He would be a better president for a Han-Hermann Hoppe Institute. Mises and Rothbard weren't paleo-conservatives.
By pretending monarchy is superior and that a nation is somehow a private contract. I don't think Rothbard would agree.
Jeff, you give the leftists too much credit. Social contract theory is after the fact. They think with feelings and say what they want as outcomes, and therefore that's what government will do. Social contract theory is taking this feeling-thinking and then trying to build a formal framework around the feelings.
SJWs always lie. Jeff Deist is just using a slightly more adult version of Vox Day's conclusions. The LP is playing with fire by courting progressives.
But with LOVE... and LOGIC. Yes? No?
I'm not sure I understand your question. Is your question that Deist is using love and logic to describe the trouble with progressives? Or that the LP is courting progressives with love and logic?
Well, you have to start somewhere... I was a Red Diaper baby, my Great Uncle was Herbert Biberman and my Grandfather was Harry Sacher. I grew up in Manhattan in the 60s and 70s and went to the same high school as Oppenheimer and studied physics in the Oppenheimer Lab there (Ethical Culture Fieldston)- then went to Reed College (Steve Jobs' and Dr. Demento's alma mater). PS, I almost went to Birch Wathen, Murray Rothbard's alma mater, but it wasn't as good then as Fieldston.
I'm not sure what this response is about. It's certainly a colorful back story but it doesn't answer my question.
Oh go away. Google my name. I'm friends with Dr. Woods and Dr. Murphy and a NH Free State Project original member. And as to the NRA- I am a Bar 4 sharpshooter and was friends with Charlton Heston. My Grandfather Abner Biberman was Tony Curtis' first drama coach. And Janet Leigh was like an aunt.
Wonderful presentation!!!
Jeff when you said Salt Lake City in the beginning, I think you were mistaken with what happened in San Jose.
San Jose, not SLC
Battle of the freedoms - economic vs. social. Neoliberalism, the 45-yr. global economic policy, is an ideology founded by libertarian economist, Freidrich von Hayek and promoted by libertarians Milton Friedman, James Buchanan, the Koch brothers and others.
The Rep Party is today dominated by this radical right, who claim to be all about economic freedom. They hate laws that restrain them in any way, especially environmental protections.
Libertarians' idea of liberty actually depends on economic inequality. It's their "human right". Economic freedom over liberty for all. Isn't that un-American?
"Aryeh Neier, founder of Human Rights Watch and its executive director for 12 years, doesn’t hide his contempt for the idea of economic equality as one of the key human rights. Neier is so opposed to the idea of economic equality that he even equates the very idea of economic equality and justice with oppression-economic rights to him are a violation of human rights, rather than essential human rights, thereby completely inverting traditional left thinking.
Here’s what Neier wrote in his memoir, Taking Liberties: “The concept of economic and social rights is profoundly undemocratic... Authoritarian power is probably a prerequisite for giving meaning to economic and social rights.”
Neier here is aping free-market libertarian mandarins like Friedrich von Hayek, or Hayek’s libertarian forefathers like William Graham Sumner, the robber baron mandarin and notorious laissez-faire Social Darwinist.
As with Neier, William Graham Sumner argued that liberty has an inverse relationship to economic equality; according to Sumner, the more economic equality, the less liberty; whereas the greater the inequality in a society, the more liberty its individuals enjoy.
It’s the fundamental equation underlying all libertarian ideology and politics-a robber baron’s ideology at heart."
thedailybanter.com/2012/06/the-quiet-extermination-of-labor-rights-from-human-rights/
In his new book, A New Foreign Policy: Beyond American Exceptionalism, Jeffrey Sachs addresses the fact that we don't look after each other at all in America today. We don't because the small radical right group led by libertarian Koch money wants it that way. No healthy government fiscal policy, no healthy society.
Sachs discusses the quality of life and the environmentally-friendly infrastructure in Stockholm, Oslo and Copenhagen. "They're not falling apart, actually, they're kinda gorgeous!" Every worker enjoys 5 or 6 weeks summer paid vacation as a matter of every workers' right. They are living very, very comfortably and productively.
In other words, they are living in the 21st century. So why this agenda to hold America back in some Orwellian neofeudalism?
This is no longer the prototype to expand worldwide as it actually was, to "reduce the rest of the world to serfdom". But libertarianism failed after the 2008 crash. Neoliberalism is no longer respected as an economic policy anymore. Nations are fed up with the IMF and World Bank's austerity programs that are only meant to sink them deeper into debt so they must forfeit their national resources and assets. It's an asset-purchasing scam by the private banking industry. It may be an oligarchy, but it's a deflating one.
For 45 years, libertarian-led economic policy has meant taking government investment completely off the table when it comes to stimulating the real economy. The focus has only been on pumping trillions into the finance sector. Smarter nations know this strategy would mean the unraveling of society.
"Libertarians are intellectually immature, frozen in the worldview many of them absorbed from reading Ayn Rand novels in high school. Like other ideologues, libertarians react to the world’s failing to conform to their model by asking where the world went wrong. Their heroic view of capitalism makes it difficult for them to accept that markets can be irrational, misunderstand risk, and misallocate resources or that financial systems without vigorous government oversight and the capacity for pragmatic intervention constitute a recipe for disaster. They are bankrupt, and this time, there will be no bailout."
Not all nations are as abusive to their citizenry as the US is because their "leaders" are not so fearful. They use fiscal policy (government investment) wisely, maintaining high quality social services that are not exploitative. They are living in the 21st century while libertarian (Koch)-led US policies have been trying to lock us in a neofeudal timewarp over the past four decades.
The citizens in Scandinavian countries understand economics better than we do. When we finally end the lies, we can get on track to proper investment again.
"The Government is not like a household. A government is like a bank. And a government running a balanced budget is like a bank that simply lends back as much as it gets in repayments, therefore the money supply never grows and without that, you don't have a growing economy.
It's one of two ways to create money, and if you don't let government create money by spending more than they take back in taxation (fiscal policy), you have to rely on the private banking system to create the money/credit (monetary policy) and you therefore get private debt bubbles." ~ Prof. Steve Keen
Every time I hear the intro music for this show I want to start singing "We don't need no education. Teacher leave those kids alone".
a smart man, but his solution seems to be run off and join a libertarian city somewhere. withdrawal is will be a failure.
Not for the people withdrawing, when there is a viable place to concentrate and build a libertarian society.
The solution to the need for governance in the absence of the state can be found through learning to govern yourself.
If you see that the state is the pressing problem, stop acting in ways that legitimize it.