🔵Double deep hives, why they are awesome, and why we don't need some new hive to save the bees.
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- Опубліковано 3 жов 2024
- Beekeepers have debated for a long time about equipment and what is best.... However, nothing is more resilient than a strong, well-fed colony with low mite counts and a young queen.
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Hi Kamon. Bama keeper here and I added a double last year. It swarmed twice in one week in early Spring and we caught both. My main hive is super heavy to the point the concrete blocks sank and it started leaning over. We are building a new foundation for it today. I have to admit I think the double box hives are doing better than the single. I love your videos, keep them coming. 5 Stars...
I went to all mediums because of weight (i am OLD) and I like the ability to use components anywhere. 3mediums is about the equivalent of 2deeps.
All of my hives are double deeps here in Central Texas...been doing that for 2 years now. Survived two Winters that way and only had one swarm which I saw and by the time I got ready to get it they left. Very healthy hives !
This is my 6th year keeping bee's. Up until this year I too managed my hives as dbl. deeps. However, I found that I had accumulated a ton of medium hive bodies, which at that time I just used as honey supers, deeps were used for brood. I now run 1 dbl. deep and 1 medium as brood boxes, and here are the reasons. 1) By taking the 2nd deep off I was able to double my number of hives without the expense of buying more deep boxes. 2) I found I was having trouble getting all my medium honey boxes off in order to treat my hives for mites. However, I found that I could easily get down to 1 deep and 1 medium. 3) It's easier to manage and inspect a single deep. 4) I can go into Winter with the same number of bee's in a deep and a medium while still leaving room for pollen and nectar/2:1/or raw sugar. 4) Because going into Fall my mediums (which are on top) have honey in them which I continually manage by moving the medium frames down, until I'm left with a single medium honey super which then becomes my 1 deep and 1 medium. I've found that I'm feeding them less which means more $ in my pocket. I'm in Eastern NC and this seems to work with our mild Winter's. There's some other thoughts but I think you get the gist.
I've been thinking the same thing for wintering; a deep full of bees and a medium full of stores.
When you separated the deeps did they make a new queen for themselves or did you need to buy one?
I overwinter in double deeps, and I think we're going into winter good and strong. I'm all for dead mites. I also fed them last month. Boxes are full of honey, pollen and bees. It's a bit colder here. I'm going to watch them to make sure they aren't starving coming out of January. Thank you and Laurel for your videos. You've taught me a lot.
Man, you were huffing and puffing when lifting that top box! 😉 That's the reason why I tried converting to single deeps late summer. But I realized I'd made a mistake...bees filled up the honey supers, but I need to let them keep some honey, and using mediums as a second brood box gets a bit complicated. So the solution for me to the heavy lifting problem was to convert to 8 frame equipment. I like the 8 frame equipment and my bees seem to love it too. I'm now thinking about getting rid of medium honey boxes and use only 8 frame deeps for everything. We all do things slightly differently, and that's OK. Great video!
Here's an idea that I'm messing with. I've run doubles, singles, nucs, and a deep with a medium over winter. It all works or not...
I like running singles but they survive better with a.deep and a medium here. Central Illinois. In spring I put queen in the deep then the medium above an excluder with two or three more supers. It works.
I should mention that I'm hobbit-size. I can lift and move deeps full of honey but after that I got nothing left for fighting dragons and orcs.
Totally agree with you. I've been looking at how Bee Maid does his hives and I've looked at the single box management. So this year I decided to try and go with the single deep. However some of my hives were way too big and this is way too late for a split obviously. So those hives got two boxes. One hive got a single deep and a medium. One got shoved back into a nuc. So this year I have all kinds of setups waiting on spring. Going to be interesting.
I agree. I've seen some videos out there about using 1 deep and medium supers. Double deeps make more sense especially when you go to split hives.
I agree too, it's so much easier to have everything a standard size, I can move frames wherever I need to. They do get heavy and my bees seem to be more aggressive in the doubles.
Kamon your management style is very similar to Stempler’s. Although he runs single deeps, its all about the bees. Good Queens, good nutrition, and varroa control. Always trying to stay ahead of all the issues and usually very successful! Also, not afraid to try new ideas 👍 Very progressive
Beekeeping, meaning some kind of manipulation or other and not just leaving the bees to do their own thing, is always a very fine balance I find. You do 'too good' a job and they will be fixing to swarm early, meaning more manipulation in form of splitting hives early and the likes, or not 'good enough' and you will either loose a colony, have to feed excessively, or loose a honey harvest. This is what makes beekeeping interesting but with the very unpredictable and unseasonable weather we have seen lately the challenge of finding that 'sweet spot' where you get the balance just right is becoming very difficult.
Hello Kamon and Laurel, they do get heavy, Lol. Like you say, it's all about good animal husbandry.
Love your open mind and the fact you will share it. Totally agree. Maybe you should organize some bee trips. Put my name on the list. Can’t think of a better reason to travel and see wonderful places and get a bee fix at the same time.
Thanks Karla we typically have some queen rearing, split making, and beginner classes in the spring.
Please, let me know. I would love to attend your classes, especially queen rearing.
I have trialled both single full depth and double full depth, Doubles win hands down but take longer to get up and going. But once going they rock. They out produce singles hands down over here. Besides that they allow you to manage the resources and do lots of splits and keep everyone including me busy LOL. Great video Kamon, Seems the cats are fair weather cats LOL. Get a dog, the dog would be there with you ....
Kamon, I totally agree. I run double deeps on mine also. RTR!
Great video again Kamon, in Australia we only us single brood, I’m pretty sure the reason it that you guys in most of the USA have longer and colder weather, when it comes down to it when you guys double brood you are more subject to early swarming come spring ( no room left in each box , just my thoughts anyway.
University of MN BeeSquad and Marla Spivak taught me to always winter with 2 deeps ..crucial indeed👍🏻🐝🐝🐝u crack me up get out of the rain dude!
Hi Kamon, thanks for sharing your wisdom. . This is my first year bee keeping and facing a cold,wet damp winter. I started with a single brood box and add a super mid summer. I've removed the queen excluder after oxalic treatment and added a entrance reducer with a mouse guard. September and October I've been feeding with 1:1 and then 2:1 sugar water. This month I've used hard sugar mix similar to one of your videos. So today in the south of Ireland it's a damp 8 degrees C and went to add more feed only to find plenty of feed remaining. Hardly any movement if any on the upper box which is 80% honey, it looks abandoned. Some activity in the lower box and the bee's are still foraging during dry spells. I've placed the hard feed in a rapid feeder which is vented at the top cover with 3mm holes. Is this too much effort for the bees or have they enough of there own supply for now. To be honest, I did get a bit of a fright when I saw how much the colony has reduced. Thanks again for your insight and great videos.
I've seen people talk about single deeps, but the math for them doesn't work out when you take bee bread and honey into account. Double deep is the way to go for sure.
Singles work exceptionally well. Not sure what "math" you are doing but MANY keepers winter successfully in singles, myself included.
I had to replay the video when i saw that spider climbing on you @Kamon Reynolds - Tennessee's Bees at about 1:45. Looked like a harmless Daddy Long Legs, though not sure. Thanks for everything you do!
Here in mid-Missouri,10 Frame double deeps let me do my splits super easy in the spring and it doesn't seem to impact honey production - unless I go crazy on doing multiple splits. I'm thinking about going 8 frame because of my age and the weight issue.
Watching these videos always makes me wish we had a local equivalent of Australian Stingless bees so I could keep some despite living in dense suburbs with elderly neighbors. Bees are so heckin' cool, yo
Hot air rises, I’ve been corrected myself.
Thanks for all the info you share. You’re one of if not the best as to great explanations on basics and allowing for new thoughts.
I am from way down in New Zealand so at this time of year we are on the cusp of warming up (even though winter was a non-event). I am a complete novice (1st year in) and have spent hours pouring over various channels to at least get a heads up on things to expect. The one hive which I purchased mid-way through last summer has gone great guns. Instead of a double deep, I put a honey super on top instead with intention to grow a powerhouse full of bees for my first honey harvest. I had a large pollen pattie on them also syrup on them all winter. In the last few litres, I mixed a dessert spoon of local *Manuka honey per 4lts of syrup. The intention was to get those small traces of bee made carbs & nutrients into the hive. Was that a dumb move? They have stored a whole lot of syrup so I stopped even though it is spring.
In my uneducated opinion & observation, I have two boxes full of hard-working bees.
I would love to get into the classroom and study beekeeping yet we all have this virus to deal with... A change in my hive has recently occurred though which is a bit of a concern. I saw a bee drag another bee from the hive a few days ago and after inspection, I noticed it had no wings. Fear of viruses, genetics, varroa etc sent me scouting for answers. Today I found two larvae in different stages, dead on the landing board. Without a thorough hive inspection (raining), it is impossible to find out for sure what is happening. I could also be an overly protective noobee as this could be completely normal. Is it?. It is varroa treatment time anyway so should I just get into the hive, inspect, treat for mites and watch this space or is there something else I should be aware of? Sorry for the small essay.
Hi Kamon, Johnny from Ontario. Love you videos and that you correspond with Ian. I do singles but have friend 2nd yr beekeeping. How should she winter dbl brood chambers, she says last yr the bees never went up tp third deep up and all died. Oh she dosnt feed in fall. Me I would either shake to single or give lots of 2-1 syrup and keep the honey super. Completely foreign to me as I winter singles. Not sure what to tell her to help her bees survive winter as never have done dbl brood. Or I would maybe remove queen excluder and feed tons of syrup to all 3 boxes thanks. syrup.
John I hate to give much advice in an extreme area like you all experience. I would imagine in a area that cold, singles would be ideal and insulation is big plus. Michael Palmer and Ian are the cold weather gurus. If she doesn't feed or treat in fall and they need it then it doesn't matter what they are in.
Kamon, you are right - equipment doesn't make for good healthy bees. Management makes for healthy bees. Singles require more timely management and saves equipment costs. Doubles give you more room for food reserves which helps.
Yes, so true. You have to manage with what you have in each hive to best maximize potential. Sure you can do a general management practice and it will work. Also like the thought of making sure each colony has the necessities to remain healthy
I really like your video’s , this is my first year of bee keeper and I learned how to do right from your videos
Just remember the old beekeeper saying that, "beekeeping is local" because what works for Kamon or works for me might not work for you where you are located. Different locations have different weather, different plants, etc...
Any beek in an marginal honey producing area is better served running double deeps. You need a large early forager force in the limited amount of time nectar is produced to collect it. Those in areas wether north or south whos nectar flows are steadier can get by with singles. I experimented with running a single this yr for honey production , a total waste.
Rant all you want its just your inner passion coming out!!! Kinda like well your kinda young to remember but ...Mr Douglas his rant on the american farmer .hhhm i i thought i heard fife and drums in your rant. Carry on brother thanks for being you ! 🐝safe and keep your smoker lit!!!
Konrad
I like the caveat you imply Kamon. “It’s all about the type of management” one is planning on. Ian Steppler needs to undertake single box for obvious reasons. A hobbyist could do singles but can also do doubles. Put it this way… watching you, a youngster comment on the weight of that box as opposed to me a 70 year old… I prefer less lifting and less looking for queens.
what would you do with this situation: Its September 13, 2022. I have a strong double deep that had 3 medium supers on it. I pulled the 3 supers about 2 weeks ago and just checked the 2 double deeps. They are both wall to wall bees, 10 frames in both and they both weigh about 90 pounds and there is lots of capped honey and pollen stores. Do I need to be concerned they might swarm at this point? I am in the Pacific NW (Whidbey Island) and we had a very late spring and the weather was about 6 weeks behind. Should I put a medium super on it just to give them room to expand?
Thanks, great advice.
Working them in the rain w/ a tshirt! Keep em coming
Here in Alaska I am wintering In three deeps, Helps keep them up out of the snow.
Wow, what a healthy hive that was!
Question I have a one year old hive single deeps but they only have 2 brood frames and can’t get them to build more they keep putting honey in other frames
Since my back is likely twice as old as yours, I use triple mediums for the base hive and mediums for supers. I really don't know how much a 10 frame deep full of honey weighs, because I can't lift one. For the 20 or so deeps I do own, they are the bottom box that I never really manipulate in a healthy colony....and of course in an unhealthy colony, lifting a deep is not really a problem since it is normally quite light. Also with my honey extractor, it can hold 4 deep frames or 8 mediums, so mediums have a slight extraction/production edge. Unless you raise a number of strong kids that like bees, I suspect you'll find mediums in your future. Now granted many commercial bee keeper use deeps exclusively, but the ones I know have employees that could work as bouncers or circus strong men in the off season. Deeps are just not a "thing" with those with social security in their rear view mirror.
Mr. Reynolds, would like to order some early spring queens. Always looking 4 good stock to graft from.
Do fall feed with internal feeders (if so which ones?) or with bucket feeding? Thanks
I have used both and they both work great. Pros and cons to each but bucket feeders and frame feeders are the two best types. I prefer the frame feeders but many like Bob Binnie and Ian prefer buckets.
That's what double deeps looked like.. Bee's bees bees
I have a question, do you add another box as soon as spring gets here? And does that keep them from sworming. Thanks!
High Lenne, I sure do. Also, if the colonies are too far ahead in March (and this one will be) I will pull a frame of brood from them and either make a split with other frames from other hives, or hive the frame to a colony that is healthy and growing but slightly behind on where it needs to be regarding the honey flow
@@kamonreynolds right...that works well.
@@kamonreynolds thanks for the reply and info! Sure do appreciate it!
I'm absolutely sure that there are real advantages to using deeps - especially for commercial - but if I was starting over (as a hobbyist) I would use all 8 frame mediums. Again. For 3 simple reasons...
1)Using all one size equipment definitely simplifies things.
2)Deeps are too heavy for me when full of honey.
3)Shallows are too small (for me) for brood - although I'm sure they would work.
*Bonus reason!* After trying every nuc size from 2 frame medium on up - IMHO there is no real advantage to any of them over my standard setup - an 8 frame medium.
The biggest disadvantage for me to all mediums is that they don't make a medium Jester nuc box.
Pretty much though the bees don't care.
Hey, Kamon. I am currently running entirley 8 frame mediums. I am wanting to convert to double deeps for spring buildup and possibly single deeps after that. Is my best option in transitioning to put a deep on top of my bottom medium and then move the medium up after the queen begins to lay into the deep? And what are your thoughts on single deep brood management?
Im in Indiana. I have no brood right now. Too late to offer pollen patty?
Hey Jilly thanks for the checking out our channel. Our bees are just barely brooding down here in Tennessee so you all may be done for the year. I'd say brooding is done for you all or very minimal. Save that pollen patty for when the maples produce pollen and then feed it then!
Im with kamon on the equipment, 10 frame deeps are too universal and can be used as supers or brood, and starting out its awesome to be able to get the most out of all your equipment
Good morning Wes, totally agree!
@@danskisbees7348 Morning! its a cold one here this morning , how about in Texas?
@@George-nx5lo 28 F
@@danskisbees7348 brrr
It is SOOOO nice to be able to just use the same size for everything. Once we top out at whatever size operation we want to be at we might do some mediums for honey to help with the weight but that will be after we have all the combs we need.
I also have double deeps so I don't have to use different frames. But I have 5 frames nucs. I imagine that 10 frame deep full of honey would be too heavy for me.
I am thinking in making 6 frames deep boxes, it would be more stable when staking 3 or 4 high.
This was very helpful Kamon.
Kamon, when it comes to successful supers, do you find double deep brood boxes work the best as well?
I think double brood and single brood both work really well but in order to manage single broods you have to use a double brood chamber for part of the early spring season. So yes I like double broods
I like your statement about fundamentals at the very start of the video.
All livestock is the same, without the fundamentals in place a shiny gate and a new barn will not make for healthy stock.
Go see Richard Noel and take my wife and I with you! His and your channels are such an inspiration, Thank you!
Thanks John, Laurel and I would like that. Richard has some really cool videos!
100% Agree Double deep hives.I am running over 2000 hives ,deeps only.
The link to the Facebook group isn't working, do you have a new link, Thank you
kamon
i have 2 double deeps from summer that are looking great and 5 single boxes going good too.
MMMmmmmm smells like honey to me!
IM A NEW BEEKEEPER, THIS IS HOW IM OVERWINTERING, 8 FRAMES DOUBLE DEEPS.
You or the best,I use double brood boxs, Much easier to split.
Does anyone use all deep boxes?
ai,m thinkin bout tryin ta use the deep frames ya use but ina long hive, ai not able ta lift them boxes, thank ya fer the video
Hallelujah brother keep an open mind dont b a bee snob and 2 each his own
im stayin double deep,,fat bees=warm bees,,to me its the draft an the inside airflow to keep moisture down,,ferel bees live here in -75 windchill up in a tree with no leaves,no barrier an stay alive
Little sugar water on the leg haha. Retake #1 No, just rain?
Well I like a meadom and a deep.
Actually you can fit that in winter in a single deep
It is impossible in November and not just one hive to have such a population. Unless he found in heaven.
Crunch lol
Triple mediums are a lot easier on my back.
It's a poor craftsman who blames his tools.
the best truth comment I have read to date!
Where are your bees?
Did you change your mind on this?
you just killed enough to make a small nuc.