Brother Piper, whilst I disagree with your conclusion in this instance (for the reason laid out below) I truly thank you for your reasoned words and taking the time to share and the general wisdom you bring to bear from the scriptures which edify our walk in Christ. 1. Women as Leaders in the Early Church - Priscilla (Acts 18:26): Along with her husband Aquila, she taught Apollos, a learned man in Scripture. - Phoebe (Romans 16:1-2): A deacon and benefactor who likely delivered and possibly interpreted Paul's letter to the Romans. - Junia (Romans 16:7): Identified as "outstanding among the apostles," indicating a significant leadership role. 2. Women as Leaders in the Old Testament: - Deborah (Judges 4-5): A judge and prophet who led Israel spiritually and militarily. - Miriam (Exodus 15:20-21): A prophet who led alongside Moses and Aaron. 3. Women in the Ministry of Jesus: - Mary Magdalene (John 20:17): The first to witness and proclaim the resurrection of Jesus. - Jesus’ Inclusivity: Women like Mary of Bethany sat at Jesus' feet as disciples (Luke 10:38-42), an action traditionally reserved for men. 1. I have always found the bible to be eminently practical, no sex before marriage, caution against lust even in the mind, harder for the rich to get to heaven - all these are practical instructions which speak to the reality of our world. But to both state that women are just as smart and as capable leaders as men and to then state - but in the church they cannot take on a leadership role ever under any circumstance. That seems highly impractical, which is why we then have to consider both the points above and if the passage was for that specific church - which this was a letter to. None the less, these are merely doctrinal differences, we believe in the core of the gospel - Christ death, resurrection, grace and redemption as we all 'Work our our salvation with fear and treambling' God Speed.
@@StalloneSiciliano Readers are advised to remember that demons are liars. Not everything that Boltglue says should be assumed to be true, even from his own perspective. -S. Szpak Email #3 (excerpt) Nightowl, my dear brother Encourage legalism. Our servants, the lawyers, were condemned by the Liar's son harshly in the New Words: But He said, “Woe to you lawyers as well! For you load people with burdens that are hard to bear, while you yourselves will not even touch the burdens with one of your fingers. And even more: Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge; you yourselves did not enter, and you hindered those who were entering.” The letter of the law kills, so let it do its job. Even the New Words say: But we know that the law is good,... So teach legalism. Teach that whatever a female speaks indoors has more weight than if she speaks it outdoors. Make sure "the pulpit" is a mystical place indoors, in their phony religion. Call it a 'sanctuary', whatever that is. If a female does speak from "the pulpit" be sure all in attendance know that she is only being ALLOWED TO SPEAK BECAUSE A MALE ALLOWED IT. It is still terrible, but at least it's something. -your just and older brother Boltglue
Great teaching brother, these words are not to create division but to solidify the church...each has their roll...and a womans role is not to preach from the pulpit...🙏🙏🙏
O my people, what have I done unto thee? and wherein have I wearied thee? testify against me. For I brought thee up out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed thee out of the house of servants; and I sent before thee Moses, Aaron, and Miriam. -excerpt Micah 6
Since a woman could be a pastor in the Old Covenant, a woman can be a pastor in the New Covenant. Simple really. I suggest my free scripturally-based essay on Deborah. Men and women are perfectly equal spiritually. She was a pastor, according to the scriptures. This is how the Judges are described in Chronicles, by God. In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’ -excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation
@Szpak-123 Deborah was not a Pastor she was a Judge and a Prophetess NOT a Pastor. She was not a leader of the church nowhere. Stop taking the scriptures out of context. Handle the Word of God CORRECTLY. There's a difference between a Judge, Pastor and Prophetess, these are completely different
@@katlegomolokoe4437 Excerpt below. Full read time: 10 minutes The Judge was the primary/senior pastor/shepherd at that time period. (In case the reader in unaware, the word pastor and the word shepherd are the same word. I prefer shepherd, because it has obvious meaning to the average person.) Major modern English translations like the NASB use the phrasing ...whom I commanded to shepherd My people... In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’ -excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation Some believe that pastor (or shepherd), is a position that was created in the New Covenant. This is not true. In the Old Testament shepherds are mentioned multiple times. Often in a negative way. “My people have become lost sheep; Their shepherds have led them astray. -excerpt Jeremiah 50 For an entire chapter on worthless shepherds, the reader may check out Ezekiel 34. When the shepherd over Israel died, the people went back into sin. That is because the Judge was the most important spiritual leader of this time period. But it came about, when the judge died, that they would turn back and act more corruptly than their fathers, in following other gods to serve them and bow down to them; they did not abandon their practices or their obstinate ways. -excerpt Judges 2 _____________________________________________ Extra content here: Shepherds are mentioned multiple times in the Old Testament. Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying, “Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel. Prophesy and say to those shepherds, ‘This is what the Lord God says: “Woe, shepherds of Israel who have been feeding themselves! Should the shepherds not feed the flock? You eat the fat and clothe yourselves with the wool, you slaughter the fat sheep without feeding the flock. Those who are sickly you have not strengthened, the diseased you have not healed, the broken you have not bound up, the scattered you have not brought back, nor have you searched for the lost; but with force and with violence you have dominated them. -excerpt Ezekiel 34 They are also mentioned in the New. Therefore, I urge elders among you, as your fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and one who is also a fellow partaker of the glory that is to be revealed: shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion but voluntarily, according to the will of God; and not with greed but with eagerness; nor yet as domineering over those assigned to your care, but by proving to be examples to the flock. And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory. -excerpt 1 Peter 5
Find a church home that doesn't compromise. And teaches BOOK, CHAPTER, VERSE! I WANTED TO LEARN THE REAL TRUTH AND NOT MAN'S VERSION!. IF THE LEADER IS NOT DOING WHAT IS RIGHT, THEN HOW CAN HE LEAD THE PEOPLE? ASK GOD FOR WISDOM AND GUIDANCE! HE WILL LEAD YOU!. AMEN! You have to save your own soul! Because preachers today aren't concerned about our soul, theirs either 😢.
I think you can do some fundamental things that worked for me in my local reality: 1. Pray for your church. And what i mean by praying is interceed, praying every day, several times a day, put this cause before the Lord. If His will, you will start see changings. 2. Make your ENTIRE LIFE conformed to the doctrine. Make yourself irreprensible (but not for comparison, by love). "How can you say to your brother 'let me take the speck out of your eye', when there is a log in your own eye?" 3. Talk to someone directly. Make them know your complaint with the word. If they don't listen, call a testimony, ecc... 4. Make sure you do those things with LOVE. If you pray, do it with love, with compassion for the souls, for your church that is the very body of Christ. If you talk, talk with love, moved by it. If you lack at this, ask God for love and turn back to point 2. Remember, running away is the easiest way, not the right one (guess if Jesus behave like this with us... I think we would be done) Hope this helps, God bless you🙏
Paul had a minimum of two serious false teachings Paul believed he was a spiritual 'father' that gave birth to Christians. Paul taught that certain men were deified. There is no reason to blindly accept his teachings about Christian women in ministry. (Each of the above is addressed by me. Reply if there is interest.) Be careful of the teachings of Paul. Only accept the valid ones.
@@vitochiaradia7482 Top suggestions if any reader should wish a study: Part 10 The most serious false teaching of Paul. Part 6 Another serious false teaching of Paul (This entire informal essay is too long to be pasted up all at once.) TABLE OF CONTENTS OF: PAUL HIS FALSE, CONTRADICTORY, AND CONFUSING TEACHINGS -S. Szpak INTRODUCTION Part 1 PAUL'S CONVERSION STORY Part 2 PAUL INSTRUCTS/ORDERS TIMOTHY TO BE CIRCUMCISED Part 3 PAUL CONTRADICTS HIS OWN TEACHING ON TONGUES AND PROPHECY Part 4 PAUL STATES IT IS ACCEPTABLE TO EAT FOOD SACRIFICED TO IDOLS AS LONG AS NO ONE SEES YOU DOING SO Part 5 PAUL SEEMS TO ALTER HIS BELIEFS AND WHATEVER ELSE IS NECESSARY FOR THE "SAKE OF THE GOSPEL". Part 6 PAUL TEACHES THAT A HUSBAND RULES OVER HIS WIFE Part 7 PAUL'S SUPPORT FOR MARRIAGE IS WEAK Part 8 PAUL WRITES OF HEARING DIVISIONS WITHIN THE CHURCH AND HOW THIS WAS NOT PROPER AND SHOULD STOP YET STATES THAT CHRISTAINS SHOULD FOLLOW PAUL Part 9 PAUL WAS OK WITH THE UNSAVED PREACHING THE GOSPEL Part 10 PAUL REFERS TO HIMSELF AS A SPIRITUAL FATHER THE MOST SERIOUS FALSE TEACHING OF PAUL Part 11 PAUL STATES THAT WOMEN SHOULD BE SILENT Part 12 PAUL IS OPPOSED TO WOMEN BEING ELDERS. THEREFORE HE IS OPPOSED TO WOMEN BEING SHEPHERDS/PASTORS. PART 13 PAUL'S FALSE BELIEF THAT THE RETURN OF JESUS WOULD TAKE PLACE WITHIN A HUMAN LIFETIME RESULTS IN HIM TEACHING AGAINST MARITAL SEX AND NORMAL EMOTIONS PART 14 PAUL STATES THAT HE IS A PERFECT CHRISTIAN Part 15 PAUL TEACHES THAT CHRISTIANITY IS HIERARCHICAL CONCLUSION AND FINAL THOUGHTS
“Exercise authority” (ESV) is NOT (in Greek) what the elders are called to do in 1 Timothy, because the word is not exousia- it is authenten (domineer, usurp, or in ancient greek: kill) In fact, that word authenten is used nowhere else in the New Testament. Paul has a very specific ban of a kind of teaching in mind - namely women who are trying to domineer or usurp authority in their teaching. This fits with the overall context of the letter which is correcting false doctrine and even of 2 Timothy where women were led astray by false teaching having to do with forbidding marriage (hence childbirth) and abstaining from certain foods. (2Tim. 3:6-4:12) Banning women from teaching (with proper authority and for all time) cannot be deduced from this text.
No biblical example of either of women preacher. Nor can they Pastor(elder/bishop)this is only given a male state. Not possible for pastor to be given to women. Honestly this doesn’t teach against women preaching but order. Adam then Eve🎚️. Women preachers are error of Gods word. But this text really teaches biblical order not telling women not to speak. It’s speaking of a “quiet spirit”.
The Judges were pastors/shepherds. So, Deborah. Judges 4 and 5. In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’ -excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation
@ thanks for the text. Let’s be clear Deborah was not pastor nor a Shepard but prophetess’s. There were female prophetess even in new testament. All they do is speak of God will before it happens. They are not preaching the word. Not proclaiming the word big difference Thank you for the biblical conversation in love!
@@qturner27 Full read time: 10 minutes The Judge was the primary/senior pastor/shepherd at that time period. (In case the reader in unaware, the word pastor and the word shepherd are the same word. I prefer shepherd, because it has obvious meaning to the average person.) Major modern English translations like the NASB use the phrasing ...whom I commanded to shepherd My people... In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’ -excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation Some believe that pastor (or shepherd), is a position that was created in the New Covenant. This is not true. In the Old Testament shepherds are mentioned multiple times. Often in a negative way. “My people have become lost sheep; Their shepherds have led them astray. -excerpt Jeremiah 50 For an entire chapter on worthless shepherds, the reader may check out Ezekiel 34. When the shepherd over Israel died, the people went back into sin. That is because the Judge was the most important spiritual leader of this time period. But it came about, when the judge died, that they would turn back and act more corruptly than their fathers, in following other gods to serve them and bow down to them; they did not abandon their practices or their obstinate ways. -excerpt Judges 2 _______________________________________________ Shepherds are mentioned multiple times in the Old Testament. Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying, “Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel. Prophesy and say to those shepherds, ‘This is what the Lord God says: “Woe, shepherds of Israel who have been feeding themselves! Should the shepherds not feed the flock? You eat the fat and clothe yourselves with the wool, you slaughter the fat sheep without feeding the flock. Those who are sickly you have not strengthened, the diseased you have not healed, the broken you have not bound up, the scattered you have not brought back, nor have you searched for the lost; but with force and with violence you have dominated them. -excerpt Ezekiel 34 They are also mentioned in the New. Therefore, I urge elders among you, as your fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and one who is also a fellow partaker of the glory that is to be revealed: shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion but voluntarily, according to the will of God; and not with greed but with eagerness; nor yet as domineering over those assigned to your care, but by proving to be examples to the flock. And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory. -excerpt 1 Peter 5
@@Szpak-123 The word "poimen" in Greek is what we would usually associate with the word "pastor", although as you state, it means shepherd. Aside from its usages in reference to Jesus, it is most prominently described in relation to the church in 1 Peter 5 as you show. Peter exhorts *elders* to shepherd (poimen) the flock. This signifies that all that hold the church role of poimen should also hold the role (and have the requirements of) an elder. The roles of poimen and elder in the church are certainly different than the role of a judge over Israel. Judges were chosen by God to spiritually, legally, and militarily lead Israel. Poimen are called to spiritually lead and teach the church, but not to lead them to war or solve their legal disputes. While you could argue that the role of Judge is a wider umbrella than that of poimen, I do not believe you've adequately shown that poimen and judge are the same, especially due to the differences in role and time periods in which they appear.
No biblical example of either. Pastor is only given a male state. Not possible for pastor to be given to women. Honestly this doesn’t teach against women preaching but order. Adam then Eve🎚️. Women preachers are error of Gods word. But this text really teaches biblical order not telling women not to speak. It’s speaking of a “quiet spirit”.
@ false statement. Acts 6 is where you first read about appointed deacons all men. The word you’re referring to was plainly servant in the form of helper as Mary was to Jesus. Read this “Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.” 1 Timothy 3:12 KJV Please stop with this false teaching. Husband of one wife. We were speaking of preachers anyways
No they do not. They do not interpret scripture in the same manner. Context matters and it’s important to understand why others hold an alternative view before dismissing it.
@@blingrs and in the context of scripture its clear. If people choose to disagree with scripture because of their feelings then they are wrong. Disagreement in this areas is a modern invention from egalitarianism infiltrating the church.
And all of those reasons are likely influenced heavily by society, rather than scripture, desperately seeking extrabiblical evidence against what is otherwise a clear passage supported elsewhere in scripture (see 1 Timothy 3:1-7, Titus 1:5-9). God is no stranger to being counter-cultural. God selected women to be among the first people to spread the word that Jesus had risen. In 1 Timothy 2:11, we see that women *should* learn (the scriptures, biblical discipline, etc.), an inarguably counter cultural idea at the time. And yet simultaneously, God is no stranger to clearly delineating roles of men and women (Genesis 1, Ephesians 5, 1 Corinthians 11, 1 Timothy 3, Titus 1 and 2, Colossians 3, 1 Peter 3, to name a few). The movement that seeks to depose God's clearly ordained instruction for men and women in the church and at home, ultimately seeks to make unclear the relationship between Christ and his church. Christ, depicted as the groom, is given spiritual authority and leadership over his church (depicted as the bride). Husbands are given spiritual authority (and indeed, the responsibility to spiritually lead as Christ does to his church) over their wives. And yes, God specifically calls men, not women, to be elders and authorities in the church, to spiritually lead the rest of the church.
@blingrs you've offered no alternative view to dismiss. There's one view in scripture. Alternative views are a modern invention from egalitarianism intruding into the church
Paul is talking about women teaching in the church and in Titus it's not talking about teaching in the church. and if they ought to teach, it should be about how young women should love their husbands and children and be self-controlled.
Well Priscilla who was a woman did the total opposite of that lol She is called a co worker in the faith by Paul and in romans 16 he speaks of how the Gentiles church are thankful for them How greatly of a role she played in the gentile church many scholars believed she wrote the book of Hebrews And she is seen as a elder in the early church fathers writing So its either Paul never wrote those words or yall are taking it out of its context
I pray that the Lord leads you to a gentle and quiet spirit as described in 1 Peter 3, and that your husband (or future husband) lives his responsibility of 1 Peter 3 and Ephesians 5 as well. God bless.
@ you are the one in error. Not having a dick ford not mean I am less than someone with a white male privilege card. My husband died and that was the nicest thing he ever did for me. I have a PhD and make damned good money and don’t have to submit to someone who thinks weird genitalia makes him smarter or better. Let’s not forget that the Bible was written by men in their best interests.
When it comes to a woman teaching (preaching in church), I believe that was said by Paul. Doesn't state the "Lord says." It was Paul's personal opinion.
Every word qritten by Paul in the Bible is equal to any word said by Christ himself...bc they were all said by God. Inspired means God breathed. There is not a higher or lower degree of inspiration, or value, in Scripture, based on who said it.
Paul is clear when he begins to state his own opinion. See 1 Corinthians 7 for the numerous times Paul goes "back and forth" between his word and God's. The interjections found in 1 Corinthians 7 are not found in 1 Timothy 2, nor in the other instances of delineating men's and women's roles in the church.
Paul had a minimum of two serious false teachings Paul believed he was a spiritual 'father' that gave birth to Christians. Paul taught that certain men were deified. There is no reason to blindly accept his teachings about Christian women in ministry. (Each of the above is addressed by me. Reply if there is interest.) Paul was heavily influenced by his culture and pride, as you seem to understand.
@@Szpak-123 Paul had zero false teachings recorded in the canonical scriptures. All scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, and training in righteousness (2 Tim 3:16-17). I do not know off the top of my head which passages you are referring to, but to the first, it is important to consider that scripture is filled with allegories and metaphors (e.g. the "Body of Christ"), and it is important to understand when portions of text should be taken literally or metaphorically. Generally, this is not difficult, as the metaphor will be repeated throughout scripture and further clarified on how and why it is used. To the second (and generally to the idea that Paul has any false teachings, or that Paul's or any other writer of scripture should cause division in the church), I will point you to 1 Corinthians 1:10-17. Hermeneutic zero is to let scripture interpret scripture. There are many reasons to (not blindly!) accept Paul's teachings about women in ministry. Jesus was no stranger to being culturally controversial, and yet he only chose men to be his apostles. Later, Jesus gave to women the important role of being among the first to spread the news of his resurrection. Note here, that spreading that news (or generally, of the Gospel) is not the same as teaching or instruction (as Paul references several times in his letters, as is the case in this video).
Brother Piper, whilst I disagree with your conclusion in this instance (for the reason laid out below) I truly thank you for your reasoned words and taking the time to share and the general wisdom you bring to bear from the scriptures which edify our walk in Christ.
1. Women as Leaders in the Early Church
- Priscilla (Acts 18:26): Along with her husband Aquila, she taught Apollos, a learned man in Scripture.
- Phoebe (Romans 16:1-2): A deacon and benefactor who likely delivered and possibly interpreted Paul's letter to the Romans.
- Junia (Romans 16:7): Identified as "outstanding among the apostles," indicating a significant leadership role.
2. Women as Leaders in the Old Testament:
- Deborah (Judges 4-5): A judge and prophet who led Israel spiritually and militarily.
- Miriam (Exodus 15:20-21): A prophet who led alongside Moses and Aaron.
3. Women in the Ministry of Jesus:
- Mary Magdalene (John 20:17): The first to witness and proclaim the resurrection of Jesus.
- Jesus’ Inclusivity: Women like Mary of Bethany sat at Jesus' feet as disciples (Luke 10:38-42), an action traditionally reserved for men.
1. I have always found the bible to be eminently practical, no sex before marriage, caution against lust even in the mind, harder for the rich to get to heaven - all these are practical instructions which speak to the reality of our world. But to both state that women are just as smart and as capable leaders as men and to then state - but in the church they cannot take on a leadership role ever under any circumstance. That seems highly impractical, which is why we then have to consider both the points above and if the passage was for that specific church - which this was a letter to.
None the less, these are merely doctrinal differences, we believe in the core of the gospel - Christ death, resurrection, grace and redemption as we all 'Work our our salvation with fear and treambling'
God Speed.
I was blind but now I see! Thank GOD I'm in a church family that doesn't compromise to foolishness! BOOK, CHAPTER VERSE!
Mothers are a child's first teacher... 👌
It means in church. At home the woman is allowed teach. Women aren't allowed to teach from the pulpit. But they can run the church elsewhere.
@@StalloneSiciliano
Readers are advised to remember that demons are liars. Not everything that
Boltglue says should be assumed to be true, even from his own perspective.
-S. Szpak
Email #3 (excerpt)
Nightowl, my dear brother
Encourage legalism. Our servants, the lawyers, were condemned by the Liar's son
harshly in the New Words:
But He said, “Woe to you lawyers as well! For you load people with burdens
that are hard to bear, while you yourselves will not even touch the burdens
with one of your fingers.
And even more:
Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge;
you yourselves did not enter, and you hindered those who were entering.”
The letter of the law kills, so let it do its job. Even the New Words say:
But we know that the law is good,...
So teach legalism. Teach that whatever a female speaks indoors
has more weight than if she speaks it outdoors.
Make sure "the pulpit" is a mystical place indoors,
in their phony religion. Call it a 'sanctuary', whatever that is. If a female does
speak from "the pulpit" be sure all in attendance know that she is only being
ALLOWED TO SPEAK BECAUSE A MALE ALLOWED IT.
It is still terrible, but at least it's something.
-your just and older brother Boltglue
@@StalloneSicilianoshe had to say something… as if she could impregnate herself…..
Truly inspiring words by - Sir Pas John , Amen, God bless 🙏
@@rohitminz8443 you need an English class to learn to make a sentence. Try going to elementary school
Very plain and clear
God bless pastor John 🙏
Yes
may we apply Your word well Lord as we submit to You!
Great teaching brother, these words are not to create division but to solidify the church...each has their roll...and a womans role is not to preach from the pulpit...🙏🙏🙏
Yes no argument about it. And what God has set protects the entire body of Christ from Satan's schemes and we're covered in love. Amen.
Thank you for such a clear explanation
I am in full agreement, even the Moses seat in OT times was for a man only.
O my people, what have I done unto thee? and wherein have I wearied thee? testify against me.
For I brought thee up out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed thee out of the house of servants; and I sent before thee Moses, Aaron, and Miriam.
-excerpt Micah 6
Agree, and loved it! Ty!
Thank you for the teaching. Which roles can a woman partake in, in Ministry?
Titus teaches on it. Women can teach other women, women teaches children as well and can evangelize in the streets
Since a woman could be a pastor in the Old Covenant, a woman
can be a pastor in the New Covenant. Simple really.
I suggest my free scripturally-based essay on Deborah.
Men and women are perfectly equal spiritually. She was a pastor, according to the scriptures. This is how the Judges are described in Chronicles, by God.
In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’
-excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation
@Szpak-123 where in the old testament is a woman a Pastor? There is no a single female Pastor in the Bible.
@Szpak-123 Deborah was not a Pastor she was a Judge and a Prophetess NOT a Pastor. She was not a leader of the church nowhere. Stop taking the scriptures out of context. Handle the Word of God CORRECTLY. There's a difference between a Judge, Pastor and Prophetess, these are completely different
@@katlegomolokoe4437
Excerpt below. Full read time: 10 minutes
The Judge was the primary/senior pastor/shepherd
at that time period.
(In case the reader in unaware, the word pastor and the word
shepherd are the same word. I prefer shepherd, because it has
obvious meaning to the average person.)
Major modern English translations like the NASB use
the phrasing ...whom I commanded to shepherd My people...
In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’
-excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation
Some believe that pastor (or shepherd), is a position that
was created in the New Covenant. This is not true. In the Old Testament
shepherds are mentioned multiple times. Often in a negative way.
“My people have become lost sheep;
Their shepherds have led them astray.
-excerpt Jeremiah 50
For an entire chapter on worthless shepherds, the reader may
check out Ezekiel 34.
When the shepherd over Israel died, the people went back into sin. That is because the Judge was the most important spiritual leader of this time period.
But it came about, when the judge died, that they would turn back and act more corruptly than their fathers, in following other gods to serve them and bow down to them; they did not abandon their practices or their obstinate ways.
-excerpt Judges 2
_____________________________________________
Extra content here:
Shepherds are mentioned multiple times in the Old Testament.
Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying, “Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel. Prophesy and say to those shepherds, ‘This is what the Lord God says: “Woe, shepherds of Israel who have been feeding themselves! Should the shepherds not feed the flock? You eat the fat and clothe yourselves with the wool, you slaughter the fat sheep without feeding the flock. Those who are sickly you have not strengthened, the diseased you have not healed, the broken you have not bound up, the scattered you have not brought back, nor have you searched for the lost; but with force and with violence you have dominated them.
-excerpt Ezekiel 34
They are also mentioned in the New.
Therefore, I urge elders among you, as your fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and one who is also a fellow partaker of the glory that is to be revealed: shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion but voluntarily, according to the will of God; and not with greed but with eagerness; nor yet as domineering over those assigned to your care, but by proving to be examples to the flock. And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory.
-excerpt 1 Peter 5
WHAT SHOULD I DO SINCE I AM A MEMBER OF A CHURCH THAT DO NOT FOLLOW THIS RULE/DOCTRINE?
Find a church home that doesn't compromise. And teaches BOOK, CHAPTER, VERSE! I WANTED TO LEARN THE REAL TRUTH AND NOT MAN'S VERSION!. IF THE LEADER IS NOT DOING WHAT IS RIGHT, THEN HOW CAN HE LEAD THE PEOPLE? ASK GOD FOR WISDOM AND GUIDANCE! HE WILL LEAD YOU!. AMEN! You have to save your own soul! Because preachers today aren't concerned about our soul, theirs either 😢.
I think you can do some fundamental things that worked for me in my local reality:
1. Pray for your church. And what i mean by praying is interceed, praying every day, several times a day, put this cause before the Lord. If His will, you will start see changings.
2. Make your ENTIRE LIFE conformed to the doctrine. Make yourself irreprensible (but not for comparison, by love). "How can you say to your brother 'let me take the speck out of your eye', when there is a log in your own eye?"
3. Talk to someone directly. Make them know your complaint with the word. If they don't listen, call a testimony, ecc...
4. Make sure you do those things with LOVE. If you pray, do it with love, with compassion for the souls, for your church that is the very body of Christ. If you talk, talk with love, moved by it. If you lack at this, ask God for love and turn back to point 2.
Remember, running away is the easiest way, not the right one (guess if Jesus behave like this with us... I think we would be done)
Hope this helps, God bless you🙏
Paul had a minimum of two serious false teachings
Paul believed he was a spiritual 'father' that gave birth to Christians.
Paul taught that certain men were deified.
There is no reason to blindly accept his teachings about Christian
women in ministry.
(Each of the above is addressed by me. Reply if there is interest.)
Be careful of the teachings of Paul. Only accept the valid ones.
Be careful my brother, if they are in the bible, they are from God. If an advice from Paul is in the bible, is an advice from God.
@@vitochiaradia7482
Top suggestions if any reader should wish a study:
Part 10 The most serious false teaching of Paul.
Part 6 Another serious false teaching of Paul
(This entire informal essay is too long to be pasted
up all at once.)
TABLE OF CONTENTS OF:
PAUL
HIS FALSE, CONTRADICTORY, AND CONFUSING TEACHINGS
-S. Szpak
INTRODUCTION
Part 1 PAUL'S CONVERSION STORY
Part 2 PAUL INSTRUCTS/ORDERS TIMOTHY TO BE CIRCUMCISED
Part 3 PAUL CONTRADICTS HIS OWN TEACHING ON TONGUES AND PROPHECY
Part 4 PAUL STATES IT IS ACCEPTABLE TO EAT FOOD SACRIFICED TO IDOLS
AS LONG AS NO ONE SEES YOU DOING SO
Part 5 PAUL SEEMS TO ALTER HIS BELIEFS AND WHATEVER ELSE IS
NECESSARY FOR THE "SAKE OF THE GOSPEL".
Part 6 PAUL TEACHES THAT A HUSBAND RULES OVER HIS WIFE
Part 7 PAUL'S SUPPORT FOR MARRIAGE IS WEAK
Part 8 PAUL WRITES OF HEARING DIVISIONS WITHIN THE CHURCH
AND HOW THIS WAS NOT PROPER AND SHOULD STOP
YET STATES THAT CHRISTAINS SHOULD FOLLOW PAUL
Part 9 PAUL WAS OK WITH THE UNSAVED PREACHING THE GOSPEL
Part 10 PAUL REFERS TO HIMSELF AS A SPIRITUAL FATHER
THE MOST SERIOUS FALSE TEACHING OF PAUL
Part 11 PAUL STATES THAT WOMEN SHOULD BE SILENT
Part 12 PAUL IS OPPOSED TO WOMEN BEING ELDERS.
THEREFORE HE IS OPPOSED TO WOMEN BEING
SHEPHERDS/PASTORS.
PART 13 PAUL'S FALSE BELIEF THAT THE RETURN OF JESUS WOULD TAKE
PLACE WITHIN A HUMAN LIFETIME RESULTS IN HIM TEACHING
AGAINST MARITAL SEX AND NORMAL EMOTIONS
PART 14 PAUL STATES THAT HE IS A PERFECT CHRISTIAN
Part 15 PAUL TEACHES THAT CHRISTIANITY IS HIERARCHICAL
CONCLUSION AND FINAL THOUGHTS
❤❤❤❤❤
Let means to withhold.
“Exercise authority” (ESV) is NOT (in Greek) what the elders are called to do in 1 Timothy, because the word is not exousia- it is authenten (domineer, usurp, or in ancient greek: kill)
In fact, that word authenten is used nowhere else in the New Testament. Paul has a very specific ban of a kind of teaching in mind - namely women who are trying to domineer or usurp authority in their teaching. This fits with the overall context of the letter which is correcting false doctrine and even of 2 Timothy where women were led astray by false teaching having to do with forbidding marriage (hence childbirth) and abstaining from certain foods. (2Tim. 3:6-4:12)
Banning women from teaching (with proper authority and for all time) cannot be deduced from this text.
No biblical example of either of women preacher. Nor can they Pastor(elder/bishop)this is only given a male state. Not possible for pastor to be given to women. Honestly this doesn’t teach against women preaching but order. Adam then Eve🎚️. Women preachers are error of Gods word. But this text really teaches biblical order not telling women not to speak. It’s speaking of a “quiet spirit”.
The Judges were pastors/shepherds. So, Deborah. Judges 4 and 5.
In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’
-excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation
@ thanks for the text. Let’s be clear Deborah was not pastor nor a Shepard but prophetess’s. There were female prophetess even in new testament. All they do is speak of God will before it happens. They are not preaching the word. Not proclaiming the word big difference Thank you for the biblical conversation in love!
@@qturner27
Full read time: 10 minutes
The Judge was the primary/senior pastor/shepherd
at that time period.
(In case the reader in unaware, the word pastor and the word
shepherd are the same word. I prefer shepherd, because it has
obvious meaning to the average person.)
Major modern English translations like the NASB use
the phrasing ...whom I commanded to shepherd My people...
In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’
-excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation
Some believe that pastor (or shepherd), is a position that
was created in the New Covenant. This is not true. In the Old Testament
shepherds are mentioned multiple times. Often in a negative way.
“My people have become lost sheep;
Their shepherds have led them astray.
-excerpt Jeremiah 50
For an entire chapter on worthless shepherds, the reader may
check out Ezekiel 34.
When the shepherd over Israel died, the people went back into sin. That is because the Judge was the most important spiritual leader of this time period.
But it came about, when the judge died, that they would turn back and act more corruptly than their fathers, in following other gods to serve them and bow down to them; they did not abandon their practices or their obstinate ways.
-excerpt Judges 2
_______________________________________________
Shepherds are mentioned multiple times in the Old Testament.
Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying, “Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel. Prophesy and say to those shepherds, ‘This is what the Lord God says: “Woe, shepherds of Israel who have been feeding themselves! Should the shepherds not feed the flock? You eat the fat and clothe yourselves with the wool, you slaughter the fat sheep without feeding the flock. Those who are sickly you have not strengthened, the diseased you have not healed, the broken you have not bound up, the scattered you have not brought back, nor have you searched for the lost; but with force and with violence you have dominated them.
-excerpt Ezekiel 34
They are also mentioned in the New.
Therefore, I urge elders among you, as your fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and one who is also a fellow partaker of the glory that is to be revealed: shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion but voluntarily, according to the will of God; and not with greed but with eagerness; nor yet as domineering over those assigned to your care, but by proving to be examples to the flock. And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory.
-excerpt 1 Peter 5
@ I appreciate the text again but I don’t have time today to reply. I love a biblical debate and decision
@@Szpak-123 The word "poimen" in Greek is what we would usually associate with the word "pastor", although as you state, it means shepherd. Aside from its usages in reference to Jesus, it is most prominently described in relation to the church in 1 Peter 5 as you show. Peter exhorts *elders* to shepherd (poimen) the flock. This signifies that all that hold the church role of poimen should also hold the role (and have the requirements of) an elder. The roles of poimen and elder in the church are certainly different than the role of a judge over Israel. Judges were chosen by God to spiritually, legally, and militarily lead Israel. Poimen are called to spiritually lead and teach the church, but not to lead them to war or solve their legal disputes. While you could argue that the role of Judge is a wider umbrella than that of poimen, I do not believe you've adequately shown that poimen and judge are the same, especially due to the differences in role and time periods in which they appear.
Now what does this says about women having leadership roles in the church, like a Pastor or Deacon
No biblical example of either. Pastor is only given a male state. Not possible for pastor to be given to women. Honestly this doesn’t teach against women preaching but order. Adam then Eve🎚️. Women preachers are error of Gods word. But this text really teaches biblical order not telling women not to speak. It’s speaking of a “quiet spirit”.
Thanks @Qturner27 -- any other thoughts?
@@Jeff_Rey577 nope thankful for this word today!
Phoebe was a deaconess (Romans 16:1). Also the word “adelphos” in Acts 6:3 (where the first deacons were first appointed) is explicitly gender neutral
@ false statement. Acts 6 is where you first read about appointed deacons all men. The word you’re referring to was plainly servant in the form of helper as Mary was to Jesus. Read this “Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.”
1 Timothy 3:12 KJV
Please stop with this false teaching. Husband of one wife. We were speaking of preachers anyways
I am not a teacher nor a pastry🫢
In those days no feminist movement to contend with!
There are reasons for why many churches do not share this view. Terran Williams discusses it on his website with references.
Then they disagree with scripture
No they do not. They do not interpret scripture in the same manner. Context matters and it’s important to understand why others hold an alternative view before dismissing it.
@@blingrs and in the context of scripture its clear. If people choose to disagree with scripture because of their feelings then they are wrong. Disagreement in this areas is a modern invention from egalitarianism infiltrating the church.
And all of those reasons are likely influenced heavily by society, rather than scripture, desperately seeking extrabiblical evidence against what is otherwise a clear passage supported elsewhere in scripture (see 1 Timothy 3:1-7, Titus 1:5-9). God is no stranger to being counter-cultural. God selected women to be among the first people to spread the word that Jesus had risen. In 1 Timothy 2:11, we see that women *should* learn (the scriptures, biblical discipline, etc.), an inarguably counter cultural idea at the time. And yet simultaneously, God is no stranger to clearly delineating roles of men and women (Genesis 1, Ephesians 5, 1 Corinthians 11, 1 Timothy 3, Titus 1 and 2, Colossians 3, 1 Peter 3, to name a few). The movement that seeks to depose God's clearly ordained instruction for men and women in the church and at home, ultimately seeks to make unclear the relationship between Christ and his church. Christ, depicted as the groom, is given spiritual authority and leadership over his church (depicted as the bride). Husbands are given spiritual authority (and indeed, the responsibility to spiritually lead as Christ does to his church) over their wives. And yes, God specifically calls men, not women, to be elders and authorities in the church, to spiritually lead the rest of the church.
@blingrs you've offered no alternative view to dismiss. There's one view in scripture. Alternative views are a modern invention from egalitarianism intruding into the church
Paul is talking about women teaching in the church and in Titus it's not talking about teaching in the church. and if they ought to teach, it should be about how young women should love their husbands and children and be self-controlled.
Well Priscilla who was a woman did the total opposite of that lol
She is called a co worker in the faith by Paul and in romans 16 he speaks of how the Gentiles church are thankful for them
How greatly of a role she played in the gentile church many scholars believed she wrote the book of Hebrews
And she is seen as a elder in the early church fathers writing
So its either Paul never wrote those words or yall are taking it out of its context
I do not “do submissive!”
Do you disagree with Ephesians 5:21?
@ obviously. 💙💙💙.
@@sandracampbell9822Then you are in error, in sin, in rebellion to God
I pray that the Lord leads you to a gentle and quiet spirit as described in 1 Peter 3, and that your husband (or future husband) lives his responsibility of 1 Peter 3 and Ephesians 5 as well. God bless.
@ you are the one in error. Not having a dick ford not mean I am less than someone with a white male privilege card. My husband died and that was the nicest thing he ever did for me. I have a PhD and make damned good money and don’t have to submit to someone who thinks weird genitalia makes him smarter or better. Let’s not forget that the Bible was written by men in their best interests.
When it comes to a woman teaching (preaching in church), I believe that was said by Paul. Doesn't state the "Lord says." It was Paul's personal opinion.
Every word qritten by Paul in the Bible is equal to any word said by Christ himself...bc they were all said by God. Inspired means God breathed. There is not a higher or lower degree of inspiration, or value, in Scripture, based on who said it.
Paul is clear when he begins to state his own opinion. See 1 Corinthians 7 for the numerous times Paul goes "back and forth" between his word and God's. The interjections found in 1 Corinthians 7 are not found in 1 Timothy 2, nor in the other instances of delineating men's and women's roles in the church.
Well. Paul is dealing with people who thinks his words are not from God in 2 Cor 10 when he defends his authority!
Paul had a minimum of two serious false teachings
Paul believed he was a spiritual 'father' that gave birth to Christians.
Paul taught that certain men were deified.
There is no reason to blindly accept his teachings about Christian
women in ministry.
(Each of the above is addressed by me. Reply if there is interest.)
Paul was heavily influenced by his culture and pride, as you
seem to understand.
@@Szpak-123 Paul had zero false teachings recorded in the canonical scriptures. All scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, and training in righteousness (2 Tim 3:16-17). I do not know off the top of my head which passages you are referring to, but to the first, it is important to consider that scripture is filled with allegories and metaphors (e.g. the "Body of Christ"), and it is important to understand when portions of text should be taken literally or metaphorically. Generally, this is not difficult, as the metaphor will be repeated throughout scripture and further clarified on how and why it is used. To the second (and generally to the idea that Paul has any false teachings, or that Paul's or any other writer of scripture should cause division in the church), I will point you to 1 Corinthians 1:10-17. Hermeneutic zero is to let scripture interpret scripture. There are many reasons to (not blindly!) accept Paul's teachings about women in ministry. Jesus was no stranger to being culturally controversial, and yet he only chose men to be his apostles. Later, Jesus gave to women the important role of being among the first to spread the news of his resurrection. Note here, that spreading that news (or generally, of the Gospel) is not the same as teaching or instruction (as Paul references several times in his letters, as is the case in this video).