GRAVE DOGS! In Search of a Massacre on the Oregon Trail
Вставка
- Опубліковано 26 лип 2024
- It is believed that an emigrant wagon train was attacked in 1854 on the Jeffreys Route of the Oregon Trail at Ditto Creek, Idaho, leading to the tragic massacre of its members. Emigrants traveling the Jeffreys Route in 1862 reported seeing the burned remains of wagons and human skeletons lying in the tall grass at the site. Many years later the skeletal remains of the victims were laid to rest in a collective grave.
Join with Jerry Eichhorst and the Idaho Chapter of The Oregon-California Trails Association as they utilize the skills of Cagney, a certified cadaver dog, and ground penetrating radar technology in an exploration to discover the precise location of this historic burial site. For additional background information visit the Jeffreys Route link on the Idaho OCTA website. idahoocta.org/routes/jeffreys....
Corrections: Travis Thomsen is the person operating the GPR.
The Oregon-California Trails Association is the pre-eminent guardian and promoter of the inspirational story of the 19th century westward migration, which is unique in world history. Our mission is to protect the Historic Emigrant Trails legacy by promoting research, education, preservation activities and public awareness of the trails, and to work with others to promote these causes.
Copyright 2023 The Oregon-California Trails Association. All rights reserved.
As a young female survivor of the Donner Party stated ..." Don't take no shortcuts."
Wasn't that in the writings of Virginia Reed?
@@octatrails I read that in a book decades ago. Still remember the quote.
As a survivor of a Donner Kabab party stated, “ Pass the bicarb”.
Cagney is a beautiful dog. Bless her, such sweet goodness and her sharing her gift. Dogs can teach us so much.
💛
Agree - Cagney is a joy!
Decades ago, was asked to help Nebraska archeologists find the mass grave of immigrants who were burned by Indians in their wagon train at the little blue. We didn't have gpr, but gpr is the best technology to find burial sites. Dowsing rods believe it or not, are also a wonderful tool. They reached out to us since we located a pony express station which was nearly a mile off on the maps.
I live in The Dalles, Oregon right on the trail. I’m 75 and have a great interest in the trail. I actually found the Cathleen Butts grave on the Meeks cut off.
W.B.T.S. Battle of Brown's Mill, Newnan GA. 1864. Official Records stated that soldiers were buried on the battlefield, but the burial sites were never found. Last year several respected grave dowsers searched the site and found graves. The county, who owns and manages the battlefield park, who wanted more proof hired a trainer and her cadaver dogs to search the site. Without advance knowledge of where the dowsers located graves, the dogs identified the exact same locations as the dowsers. At one location was a mass grave roughly about 50' x 50'. The dogs circled the area then one dog sat on a corner of the perimeter and the other set diagonally across on the opposite corner.
Several years ago, I took a dowsing class in Tennessee from a man who was a 40 year veteran of the art of dowsing. The State of Tennessee DNR trusts his findings more than GPR (ground penetrating radar)...
Thanks Eddy!
Just some family history, my grand mothers' grand mother came to Oregon then Washington over the Oregon trail in 1862 as far as I can tell. I have the only thing left and it is a rocking chair which came with her. This is what I was told by my grand mother. I am 72 .
This is fascinating, but what happened next?
So what is the point of all this if nothing is being done to see if there are remains in the spots marked by the dog? Am I missing something?
@@arizonaarmadillo5829 😂 Jokes on you , this is Idaho.HAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I bet you feel dumb now
@@arizonaarmadillo5829 Ditto creek , Idaho
@@arizonaarmadillo5829 HAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
It’s in Idaho.
You got me!@@guaporeturns9472
If a grave excavation is not performed by trained archeologists, any “finds” can include a giant asterisk.
That is an important statement. OCTA has guidelines on how to investigate to respect and preserve. Jerry talks about ensuring you have the landowners permission on private property or work with the respective agency for public lands, that you don't remove artifacts, but record their location and finally that all excavations are performed under the supervision of the regulations of that jurisdiction and under the care of a trained archeologist. Thanks for emphasizing that.
There’s a little girls grave in Wyoming that is on the Oregon Trail at the confluence of Coal Creek and South Piney Creek somewhere
The sign says she drowned in an accident crossing Coal Creek in high water
She was buried in a now unknown spot overlooking the creek
Go find her
Near San Antonio was the Battle of Medina .They arent exactly sure were the battle took place.But they are looking for it.The Battle of Salado took place along Salado Creek.Across the creek on Holbrook which runs next to the battle field, is Victoria,s Black Swan Inn.The house was built in the 1850s ,1860s on the grounds of the battle field.The Black Swan Inn is haunted and has been on Ghost Hunters, Ghost Adventures, and Sightings.
My mom lived at a Oakwell Farms and I drove past that house a few times. I liked to wonder down into the rivers and never went back to explore Salado Creek across the street from the Black Swan like I wanted to. After finding a haunted grave yard I can believe that house is haunted. Thanks for the reminder!
Was driving down a two-lane country road west of Des Moines, IA, years ago. The road went on for miles, and at one point passed a two-story farm house that was only maybe 100 years old. There in front of that house though was a crossroad, next to which where two small stones that marked the graves of a couple of sisters who had died on the trail west during the 1850's, according to the inscriptions. Two little girls all alone on the vast prairie. No other graves around them. Bizarre.
Very good job and video. Thsnks for your dedication to this history and these people. It mustve been a terrible day for that wagontrain.
Much appreciated
Looks like Cagney could be marking where the people died and became skeletons. The scents there would be stronger for decay than the burial site for the skeletons.
Fascinating technology!
I wish you luck......I got stuck with a gpr unit but trained as a civil surveyor and I can tell you you are pissin in the wind with that gpr - a gpr is made to find underground utilities and that is completely dependent on the backfill... what is a shame is that people automatically believe that because something is called or named after a task it performs that it does it perfectly to their expectations - and they do not, whatsoever, the first gprs were 40k usd - now much less money but still effective for underground utilities, I still wish you luck and commend the operator to humor someones hobby because that helps everyone - ive found lots by digging deep doing sewer rehabs - and found lots of utilities by searching, sometimes maps are better but gpr can help - but it all depends on the backfill, and about a dozen or so of other variables.... rip to the pioneers and good luck to the keepers of the trail (it does look like a good place for an ambush)
My family all stopped in Mo! (From VA/KY)... but especially because of existing swales, and my neighborhood being the beginning of three trails (SantaCali-Gon), I respect the determination of these travellers. If I had been part, I would have died early on, from sickness or severe allergy. My parents would probably have made it, and most of my brothers. I've Driven cross country by car....7-11s were heavenly! I just cant fathom the despair mixed with determination of these courageous and desperate people. (Also live near springs, where they camped and watered before heading to Westport 😊. We played there often.
My family has a similar history - from Fluvana County, VA and then settled in Boone County, MO near Rocheport - they travled up the Boonslick Road in 1821. Do you have much history on their details?
Will the dogs really be able to fine the 170 year old bones?
Exactly, it's hard to believe VOC's would still remain almost 175 years later. Especially as the bodies rotted on the surface.
Agree that this is more challenging - Laurie (the dog handler) believes Cagney is capable
In short, yes. Dogs can find burial locations much older.
Native Americans often maintain a durable oral history; it would be interesting if a liaison twixt the local Shoshone and researchers could be made, to hear what, if anything is known from the Indian account of this incident.
Also: metal detectorists, what have found at this site?
So many aspects of this incident are haunting to contemplate, staying with me for many days.
We are working to engage the Shoshone and other tribes on all aspects of their history. We have dozens of such videos here already. We hope you enjoy!
So sad for the attacks
Am surprised the dog could smell the remains after such a long time.
@rosanneshinkle4133 the olfactory nerves of canines are stupendous!
It would seem to me a drone would be very helpful if the grave was outlined with rocks. One question I have is this. The bodies were found in tall grass, that area doesn’t exhibit tall grass. Has it been grazed by cattle or sheep?
They were found in tall grass, in 1862... a lot's changed since then.
What?!?! Don't leave us hanging!😂
To be continued
@@octatrails it's been 5 months. when will it "be continued"?
@@kristic4472likely next year
So, will there be a part 2....
Jerry continues in his search. We plan to be there for the next installment of exploration.
I know, seriously..More!
So, what did you find?
And it realy wasnt that long ago. Not realy.
Yes, that is a great perspective. It really wasn't
And yet it was a very long time ago……wow , that’s like profound and shit , mind blown now.
How about Lidar?
You should invite time team out to investigate
Yes! Love that show!
Where is the rest of the story? What was found?
Have you researched information in either of the two books by Irene D. Paden? The Padens followed the various trails, researched journals, diaries, maps and letters of the pioneers and spoke with descendants and witnesses of the migration along the way for over 15 years. Their books may help you in your investigations.
Yes, her books are the gold standard.
After more than a century and a half would there be mucg to smell?
alifeofdogs.com/the-history-of-cadaver-dogs/
Your dog can find 100 year old graves????
Yes, and older. Cadaver dogs can detect human scent up to 15 feet deep and have identified remains 3000 years old.
Wouldn't the skeletons be close to the wagons use a metal detector to locate the wagons
Has anyone remembered…RIP?
How do you know there was a massacre ? Do you have any idea how many students died from dysentary on the Oregon Trail?
touche"
should have had some metal detectors out there.
No part 2?
See the Overland Journal, Vol. 30, No. 3 for the article "Locating the Grave of John Snyder." You can order the issue at www.octa-trails.org or, if you become a member of the Oregon-California Trails Association, you will have full access to over 40 years of the Overland Journal at www.octa-journals.org.
For more information, see also Overland Journal Vol. 36, No. 2 for the article "Starved Camp of the Donner Party" for more information on the work of cadaver dogs to find emigrant graves.
More will likely be filmed in summer 2024
Great if the tombs are found, but tell no one. Leave them in peace, they could well be some of my kin.
They are just organic compounds and elements… whoever they belonged to is long gone , you know …DEAD. Who knows what happens when we die , but I’m pretty sure we don’t stay attached to our worldly bodies.
But who know , I suppose I could be wrong ( but I’m probably not)
I wonder what the discussion was among settlers to move away from the civil war effects and slavery
Who buried the victims
How can any odor last that long😊
Cadaver dogs can detect human scent up to 15 feet deep and have identified remains 3000 years old. Their sense of smell is thousands of times more acute than a human.
100+ years ago. They aint gonna smell shyt!!
They can smell graves hundreds of years old.
@@octatrails - I dont see how, but, okay....
I'm curious as to what historical evidence leads to the theory that the massacre was a result of and Indian Attack.
What? You think it was Islamic terrorists?
Because they quickly ruled out aliens, illegal migrants?
Just gonna throw that out?
Of course there is a "camp" that believes the white settlers themselves are illegal migrants, trespassing on the native lands?
Anytime modern humans, (if you will) meet stone age hunter gatherers, well we all know the results!
What is interesting, if first contact with the north and south american continents were today, you would not land to see a modern highway system, a space shuttle lifting off, think about that?
But find a people unchanged, living the same way they did 509 years earlier, hell 800 years earlier!
In direct answer to your question, I believe the remains at the time of discovery were riddled with arrows,
The emigrants of 1854 broke the trail on the new route and suffered from several attacks by Indians. In late August, a small wagon train was attacked a mile west of Little Camas Creek, killing three emigrants. The next day, the Ward wagon train was attacked along the Boise River near Middleton. Survivors state that they were attacked by Indians. A third attack occurred that summer on the final wagon train through, as the remains of a massacred wagon train were discovered in 1862 when the route was next utilized.
@@manyamile410seeing how dumb people are, I'm sure there are a few who actually think that. 🤣
@@octatrailsforgive me if i overlooked something
Was there a 'Name' of this particular wagon train? Or were there no known survivors?
???????
Those people were also committing genocide on their way through were they not?
No
Not really , they were just traveling. The genocide mostly came later and mainly at the hands of government officials and soldiers.
I understand the indians, it was THEIR land. Taken away from them and whilst they were hunting with respect for nature and their pray, they saw nothing but destruction done by settlers.
Let them rest 😢
Please educate yourself before coming on here and making uninformed comments. Google is free.
Came here to see something, but just watched folks run their mouths...
This video was a waste of time and resources. Both yours and mine.
We hope you watched all the way to the end. Thanks for stopping by.
@@octatrails I did. Just to confirm that there was virtually no point to this video.
The story is very interesting, but......after that the video consists of people yapping at the camera and little else of substance.
@nattybumpo7156 glad you're still here commenting. We enjoy all comments. Please do watch and comment on other videos. Thank you.
Stop using Massacre. A battle between invading travelers and Native.
An accurate term for "complete destruction".....without consideration of the needs of emotional pampering for our overly sensitive viewers/readers.....
Wonder if women and children are buried there?
The indigenous people also fought , raided , raped and stole from other tribes all the time. Apparently it’s different when a tribe with lighter skin comes along and beats them at their own game? All the sudden everyone is offended 🤦♂️
Talk about hypocrisy and double standards.
@RJ-bp7st Would it change your perception of using the word massacre if you found out they were unarmed?
Be nice, folks. It sounds like the OP has one of those "higher edjumacations".
Great subject, but get on with it! Far too much waffling speech. Then to top it all you say whether the grave was found or not.
Thank you for your comment