Paul, your findings have further convinced me that I am right in staying away from any bike that has been rebuilt or so called restored. I'd rather stick to sourcing those rough but untouched and in need of work for the first time. At least I can then be confident the work will be done well and for those jobs I cannot do myself, like the machining jobs, done by a professional like yourself. Professionals who seem to be getting more and more scarce. Keep up the great work.
I just assume when I get one that it has hidden issues after 50 years of multiple owners...........then start from scratch making what needs attention sorted out.
The one thing I like about when I get a British motorcycle with very low original miles on it is the fact that it has not been butchered by incompetent mechanic.
If your experience is anything to go by, the A65s are entitled to feel persecuted. They seem to attract rebuilds that are, at best, incompetent, possibly even fraudulent. It makes me wonder who is doing it. Good luck with this one and thanks for posting, we live and learn.
i had a A65 Clubmans, good looking bike, went well when it was going but it spent more time in bits than on the road, it used to eat timing side bushes, in the time i had it it had crank, bearings bushes, cams, rebore, valves and guides. last time the bottom end went i didn't even bother fixing the thing. sold for £50. and bought a rusty honda 400/4. being of a certain age i was brought up with brit bikes. i had more luck with the A10 and A7
I had an A65L ages ago and it was a fun bike. I've always wondered just what was the difference in performance between that and the single carb A65T? It seemed like all things were otherwise equal between the two. The Lighting was the one bike that taught me the value of the electronic ignition. Timing that bike with the original points setup was a nightmare!
Very instructive and useful again Paul. Loved the tip about preventing the push rods falling in to the sump. Have seen people suggest rubber bands and all sorts of things but I liked your idea the best. Saw an American bloke take to the sludge trap cover on a TR6 off with a lot of heat. It seems as though this melts any baked in oil in the threads and it came out easy. Don't know if the same application is appropriate for the A65 though.
It's breaking the punch marks that's the problem not old oil. An impact drill might help. If the seller was the one who did the engine work he needs a good talking to and perhaps needs his arm twisted to pay for the proper repair. I expect he will say "sold as seen".
A65s can be so good but always marginal for the long run. I was a BSA/Suzuki/Kawasaki mechanic for about 15 years and fortunately never had to split the cases on any BSA. It's a bit peeving to see that timing side crank journal with that oilway groove running the whole circumference of the journal - seems like that would ruin the oil film somewhat due to the loss of area. I'd want to find another way to approach that without going to a ball/roller conversion but still lots to learn and ponder. Thanks for sharing such detail as we'd never otherwise see.
Poor guy................his bargain classic just became very expensive. Oh well the good news is it is repairable and will be a fine well running engine when done!
it is a shame that A65s have the current poor reputation. Many years back they were the outfit engine of choice for many road racers. One of my customers has a well sorted Oil in frame Lightning. It had a few special bits on it and was probably the best British 650 I ever rode.
They have had a poor reputation since new. As a cost saving BSA retained the timing side bush. Big mistake. Having said that I like them. Devimead timing side conversions originated in the BSA competition shop
Paul, I worked on a 1970 Bonnie that had a drive side roller bearing (MRJ 1 1/8") that was loose like that, to fix it, I was advised to have the main shaft journal knurled, I entrusted the work to the engineering company, and whether it was right or wrong, it actually worked. was a nice press fit. Best of luck, following with interest., cheers Dave
It would have cost the BSA company so little to put a proper bearing on the engine and save everybody all this grief and aggravation but they did not. The sludge trap on my 1965 Triumph TR6 was almost full when we tore down the engine to replace the camshaft with wore out after fifty years of service. Instead of cleaning the slide trap I just bought a new one
Looks like either getting the crank completely reground, or even buying a good second hand one. You could if you had time and money get the mains machined down , metal sprayed and put back to standard. Seems like most of the bearing are knackered, no wonder it was noisy.
Hmmmn Paul? What type of guy b4 yourself ' has had GO, that I've been through May 2000,GPZrx Ninja While away in USA Still under cover at MA's home ..who can I find??? I have learnt so much Thanks frm Swansea Jack...
Here’s a good example of why aircraft mechanics are certified, and required to sign their work. If this kind of work had been discovered in an aircraft engine, the responsible mechanic would have lost his license, and his job.
I would say it was a home build.I run a garage in newyork state USA we have to be state licenced to work on vehicles.I was also told by a friend who is a doctor .There are as many bad doctors as bad mechanics !
Does the timing side shaft wear preclude the SRM end feed and bearing conversion, not that I'm saying that is necessary? To get a long lasting timing side bush is it advisable to centre the bush with the two cases bolted together, in order to make sure the alignment is spot on? The similar bush on my 1952 G80 used to last a year, but then I've always felt that that engine's bottom end was the weakest of the '50s big singles.
hi yes your right jeremy its called line boring, you can still get bsa original timing side bushes which are steel backed a plug and play deal, they where meant for the bsa dealers that could change it out for new one when the old one had worn out, but that is providing the journal had'nt worn oval or worn to a taper. but you can get solid bronze bushes and that's when you need to line bore them for alignment. with regards Adrian.
Not really sure what can be done if the primary side main shaft proved grounded to thin for original size of a bearing. To see the sludge trap plug treated like this is common in America.
Wow. What's going on with that drive side roller? Surprised the big ends survived the carnage of the timing side bush. I'd be tempted to take the whole thing off to SRM for a roller-bearing conversion. What's your thoughts on those?
I haven't looked closely yet, but the drive side bearing could possibly be the wrong size - I am not ruling anything out yet! One of the A65's whose engine I had to rebuild already had the SRM conversion, but the big ends had still failed. All the others I have rebuilt have just had replacement timing side bushes, if required.
I think a replacement crankshaft may be in order. Drive side bearing fit !!! Hard chrome back up to size ,but a replacement crank probably be more cost effective. Having owned and rebuilt several I prefer the older A 7-10 series engines ! Not as much power but I always thought smoother and more flexible.
always find your videos great watching it must be frustrating how some so called restorers make a complete mess of things then you with all your knowledge put it right amazing paul west yorkshire i have tried to get your contact details but can:t find your phone number not on face book
Paul, your findings have further convinced me that I am right in staying away from any bike that has been rebuilt or so called restored. I'd rather stick to sourcing those rough but untouched and in need of work for the first time. At least I can then be confident the work will be done well and for those jobs I cannot do myself, like the machining jobs, done by a professional like yourself. Professionals who seem to be getting more and more scarce.
Keep up the great work.
I just assume when I get one that it has hidden issues after 50 years of multiple owners...........then start from scratch making what needs attention sorted out.
The one thing I like about when I get a British motorcycle with very low original miles on it is the fact that it has not been butchered by incompetent mechanic.
If your experience is anything to go by, the A65s are entitled to feel persecuted. They seem to attract rebuilds that are, at best, incompetent, possibly even fraudulent. It makes me wonder who is doing it. Good luck with this one and thanks for posting, we live and learn.
i had a A65 Clubmans, good looking bike, went well when it was going but it spent more time in bits than on the road, it used to eat timing side bushes, in the time i had it it had crank, bearings bushes, cams, rebore, valves and guides. last time the bottom end went i didn't even bother fixing the thing. sold for £50. and bought a rusty honda 400/4. being of a certain age i was brought up with brit bikes. i had more luck with the A10 and A7
There's a Scottish term for this type of rebuild but it's not printable here.😉
Somehow this story sounds familiar. Thanks for all you good work.
I had an A65L ages ago and it was a fun bike. I've always wondered just what was the difference in performance between that and the single carb A65T? It seemed like all things were otherwise equal between the two.
The Lighting was the one bike that taught me the value of the electronic ignition. Timing that bike with the original points setup was a nightmare!
Very instructive and useful again Paul. Loved the tip about preventing the push rods falling in to the sump. Have seen people suggest rubber bands and all sorts of things but I liked your idea the best.
Saw an American bloke take to the sludge trap cover on a TR6 off with a lot of heat. It seems as though this melts any baked in oil in the threads and it came out easy. Don't know if the same application is appropriate for the A65 though.
It's breaking the punch marks that's the problem not old oil. An impact drill might help. If the seller was the one who did the engine work he needs a good talking to and perhaps needs his arm twisted to pay for the proper repair. I expect he will say "sold as seen".
Good video update 👍
A65s can be so good but always marginal for the long run. I was a BSA/Suzuki/Kawasaki mechanic for about 15 years and fortunately never had to split the cases on any BSA. It's a bit peeving to see that timing side crank journal with that oilway groove running the whole circumference of the journal - seems like that would ruin the oil film somewhat due to the loss of area. I'd want to find another way to approach that without going to a ball/roller conversion but still lots to learn and ponder. Thanks for sharing such detail as we'd never otherwise see.
Poor guy................his bargain classic just became very expensive. Oh well the good news is it is repairable and will be a fine well running engine when done!
it is a shame that A65s have the current poor reputation. Many years back they were the outfit engine of choice for many road racers. One of my customers has a well sorted Oil in frame Lightning. It had a few special bits on it and was probably the best British 650 I ever rode.
They have had a poor reputation since new. As a cost saving BSA retained the timing side bush. Big mistake. Having said that I like them. Devimead timing side conversions originated in the BSA competition shop
@@19892CV In my biased opinion, BSA are Triumph wanna be s
It's in good hands now!
With everything going on asbo A65 comes to mind.....
Paul, I worked on a 1970 Bonnie that had a drive side roller bearing (MRJ 1 1/8") that was loose like that, to fix it, I was advised to have the main shaft journal knurled, I entrusted the work to the engineering company, and whether it was right or wrong, it actually worked. was a nice press fit. Best of luck, following with interest., cheers Dave
Thanks, Dave.
It would have cost the BSA company so little to put a proper bearing on the engine and save everybody all this grief and aggravation but they did not. The sludge trap on my 1965 Triumph TR6 was almost full when we tore down the engine to replace the camshaft with wore out after fifty years of service. Instead of cleaning the slide trap I just bought a new one
Looks like either getting the crank completely reground, or even buying a good second hand one. You could if you had time and money get the mains machined down , metal sprayed and put back to standard. Seems like most of the bearing are knackered, no wonder it was noisy.
Hmmmn Paul? What type of guy b4 yourself ' has had GO, that I've been through May 2000,GPZrx Ninja While away in USA Still under cover at MA's home ..who can I find??? I have learnt so much Thanks frm Swansea Jack...
Looks like you've got a PB timing side bearing they clamour, try and get a white metal lined bush clamour= clap out
The 'power egg' ain't no yoke?
Here’s a good example of why aircraft mechanics are certified, and required to sign their work. If this kind of work had been discovered in an aircraft engine, the responsible mechanic would have lost his license, and his job.
I would say it was a home build.I run a garage in newyork state USA we have to be state licenced to work on vehicles.I was also told by a friend who is a doctor .There are as many bad doctors as bad mechanics !
If only life was so simple Phil.
Does the timing side shaft wear preclude the SRM end feed and bearing conversion, not that I'm saying that is necessary?
To get a long lasting timing side bush is it advisable to centre the bush with the two cases bolted together, in order to make sure the alignment is spot on?
The similar bush on my 1952 G80 used to last a year, but then I've always felt that that engine's bottom end was the weakest of the '50s big singles.
hi yes your right jeremy its called line boring, you can still get bsa original timing side bushes which are steel backed a plug and play deal, they where meant for the bsa dealers that could change it out for new one when the old one had worn out, but that is providing the journal had'nt worn oval or worn to a taper. but you can get solid bronze bushes and that's when you need to line bore them for alignment. with regards Adrian.
Hi Paul, I have a 1-2" outside micrometer if you want it.
That's very kind, thanks, although I have some of those myself - just not much good at reading them!
@@paulhenshaw4514 49 years a turner helps you read them.
Not really sure what can be done if the primary side main shaft proved grounded to thin for original size of a bearing. To see the sludge trap plug treated like this is common in America.
Hi Paul, did the camshaft have any end float? Should it have any? The engine I have does. Great videos as always.
Hi Richard, there is a tiny amount, but nothing alarming.
oh boy, glad that's not my bike :(
Oof - is that LH rod scratched about half way up?
I am not sure, but I will take a close look!
Looks like an arrow to me drawn with tippex or something similar. Maybe to denote “towards front of engine”?
Wow.
What's going on with that drive side roller?
Surprised the big ends survived the carnage of the timing side bush.
I'd be tempted to take the whole thing off to SRM for a roller-bearing conversion.
What's your thoughts on those?
I haven't looked closely yet, but the drive side bearing could possibly be the wrong size - I am not ruling anything out yet! One of the A65's whose engine I had to rebuild already had the SRM conversion, but the big ends had still failed. All the others I have rebuilt have just had replacement timing side bushes, if required.
So someone rebuilt parts of the engine. Now you have to follow someone else's mistakes and do it all over again. Rebuild the rebuild.
😥 Can of worms
oh dear...not really what you want to find
I think a replacement crankshaft may be in order. Drive side bearing fit !!! Hard chrome back up to size ,but a replacement crank probably be more cost effective. Having owned and rebuilt several I prefer the older A 7-10 series engines ! Not as much power but I always thought smoother and more flexible.
always find your videos great watching it must be frustrating how some so called restorers make a complete mess of things then you with all your knowledge put it right amazing paul west yorkshire i have tried to get your contact details but can:t find your phone number not on face book
Hi Paul and thanks. Look for Performance Classics on FB, you should find me there.