Within the first minute and few seconds, you explain the easiest way to get a secondary dominant. This has been something that would often confuse me. So thanks for the simplified explanation.
@ikanreed816 I've listened to a few musicians explain this, but I wasn't ever able to wrap my head around it. I felt like I was understanding. But when I tried to apply it, I'd forget how it works.
@nathanbegel4505 A diminished chord is never going to sound resolved, but it does sound very shocking if you set it up with a secondary dominant, which can definitely be useful
@@thepotatoportal69 I'm pretty sure you can make anything sound resolved by providing it with the context that makes it so, it doesn't have all that much to do with consonance.
This is right up there with some of your best videos. Informative, direct, great examples, very clear. I particularly like that you give emotional labels to the V/x chords, such as the lighthearted potential of I VI7 ii I. It really helps to contextualise the abstract theory and lets the imagination run wild. Bravo!
I love secondary dominance, this video made me happy, especially with hearing video game music examples. I do a lot of scientific research now after my time in music school so it’s refreshing to come back to these concepts. As a musician, hearing a pop song use some secondary dominance adds SO much character compared to the standard pop chord progressions. I always felt like the concept of secondary dominance is when those outside of the study of music theory start to feel we become too technical, and of course I’m bias but it’s nice to know that such an important and beautiful concept is actually not TOO far deep at all in classical or jazz theory. Thanks for sharing, I’ve been a fan for years now but keep up the great work.
Thank you for that video, you explained this topic very clearly! You're the best music theory channel on yt for me. Thank you very much for your work! :3
Absolutely lovely as always. A small thing, the background Civilization footage in the "SD to the vi chord" is not Civ 6 where the theme is present but Civ 5.
This helps a lot! I often struggle with leaving key, and it can make my music very baroque when I'm not trying. Understanding chromaticism as "spice" surrounding central ideas does a lot to help the writing process.
8-Bit would be proud, I recently recognized a sus chord in a Davi Vasc Hollowknight OST reaction vid, not bad for a complete music theory layman. Here's hoping 8-bit or some patrons agree with me on some things I'd love to see covered one day: Risk of Rain: Entire track is just one constantly repeated leitmotif, RoR2 goes a very different and amazing direction (I like to describe it as "acid space muzak"), but RoR2 brings back that leitmotif of the first game for "...con letitud ponderosa" which is the final level theme and goes SO. FUCKING. HARD. Secret of Mana: Perfect example of how to do reorchestrations of video game re-makes/re-masters wrong versus how to do them right. The SoM remaster soundtrack is, in a word, unsatisfactory. Meanwhile, Trials of Mana (the remake of SoM2) absolutely nails it in every single possible way. Contra 3: I reeeeaalllly wanna know how a jazz musician by trade reacts to the absolute tonal and melodic and timing fuckery going on in this game's amazing sci-fi soundtrack. Lost Ark: Perhaps not as a dedicated video, but if 8-bit goes through any future thematic "Check out how all these games and composers make their boss/adventure/heroic music sound so unique yet land their intended emotion and mood" this game (as arguably bad as it is as an actual MMO despite having the best combat system in an MMO since Tera and best raids of ANY MMO) has music that goes way harder than you'd expect. From "Swords Crossed" to "Astalgia of Phantasm" to the freaking literal broadway play-esque song & dance of "Romantic Weapon" I'd almost go back to this game just for its music if not for how much it wants you to no-life it to actually progress. Heck, just an instrumentation choice video would fit, too, given Akkan's final theme sound like orchestrated death metal (fitting given he is the legion commander of plagues and has a lot of death/undead aspects to him).
One of my favourite secondary dominant is the V/iv in a minor key. It's just so smooth yet so dramatic ✨ For example: Am A7/G Dm/F (throw in the B7/D# for extra spice) E7 By the way amazing video, most of the time I already know what you're talking about but the way you tell things is just so clear and inspiring!
The fact that the only secondary dominant to 3 chord that 8bit could find is from FF6 by Nobuo Uematsu just shows how mad of a lad Uematsu is at composing music.
Nice video! You have said in previous videos that modern music tends to avoid the V chord because it's such a strong resolution. Does that mean that it tends to avoid secondary dominants even more? Is there a scale from music using no V chord via using dominant V chord to using secondary dominants?
To answer the first question, it would only create an even stronger resolution if it was the secondary dominant of the 5th chord, which the resolves to the tonic, e.g. D7 - G7 - C. Usually they kind of uproot the existing sense of resolution and introduce a new, different one, even if that’s just for a moment.
A lot of modern pop music seems to go for as subtle of harmonic movement as possible, which means both regular and secondary dominants are usually avoided. It would definitely be possible to use secondary dominants but avoid regular V7-I cadences in a piece, but I can't think of any examples off the top of my head!
Love this! The secondary dominant to the iii I always think of as the "Just the Two of Us" progression. It's funny that it was hard to find VGM examples, because it's fairly popular in pop music. I love that progression too, because the iii7 to V7 feels like a secondary dominant, but it just resolves back to the I. Neat!
2:54 I've been taught that it's not done specifically because a secondary dominant can only be applied when the target chord is tonicizable (and given that a diminished chord has no P5, it is not tonicizable)
This has nothing to do with secondary dominants but I just love that I experienced Undertale before I knew anything about Final Fantasy. I had no idea Mettaton was referencing anything...I just rolled with it. This is super cool though, I didn't know this effect had a name
It may just be me but I love that the SD to IV section felt like it would end on the shop closing theme but then SIKE one more example! Not unlike the chord at hand…
The secondary dominant of the IV chord (in the key of C, that would be C7) is often really effective as a lead into a IV-iv progression. In the key of C this would be C - C7 - F - Fm, which is devastating. Although honestly you don’t even need the root note, Edim is enough for that spot as well
Two questions (and a third): - Are Secondary Dominants always 7 chords? - Do they always have to resolve down a fifth? - And if the answer to either or both of those questions "no", then what makes it different from just any chord not in the scale and not from a parallel mode? Or has it just become a generic music theory term for "We don't actually know the role this chord plays, but it sounds good, so it must be a secondary dominant"? I feel I have seen chords be labelled secondary dominants despite not being a 7th nor resolving down a 5th.
1. no, having the seventh is not required to be a secondary dominant 2. yes, being the 5 of the secondary is what makes it a secondary Dominant. though you could have eg a secondary subdominant 3. it being labeled as a secondary dominant puts it in the context of the next chord rather than the home key, which may be more helpful in certain contexts
Think of the Campfire Song Song from SpongeBob. The song vamps between I and IV for the first handful of bars until the “ 🎼 *but it’ll help if you just sing along* 🎵 “ line; where it hits that diatonic *II7* which is the secondary Dominant of the *V7* which it resolves to on “ *a-long* ” now effectively “tonicizing” it.
At 14:13 (the SMB2 example), with the D as a secondary dominant going to the G7, the C I'd expect in a secondary dominant isn't present at all. I'm surprised this functions as a secondary dominant without the tritone crunch of the minor 7th/major 3rd- do we just hear it as one due to convention? Edit: ignore me, I just noticed it in the walking bassline. 🤦♀
A secondary dominant is pretty similar to modulating to the chord that comes after it. Do you typically resolve back to the I chord (using more dominants) to avoid the feeling of a more permanent modulation?
Absolutely, if you borrow too many chords from another key in a row then the music feels like a full on modulation. But one secondary dominant resolution inside a larger progression just adds some flavour
hey, Im new to music theory and Im a little confused... at 1:13 you say, "we pretend to be in the key of G minor" and "what would the 5 Chord in the key of G minor be?" In my understanding that would be D minor, right? but you take D7 and I dont really get it, as I thought in minor the 5th is minor as well. Maybe Im getting something wrong, idk xd
That’s a good question. In the diatonic key of G natural minor, the 5 chord would be a D minor chord. However, a secondary dominant refers to using a V7 chord of the target chord (Gm), which would be D7. This gives it a stronger resolution to G minor, whereas a Dm or even a Dm7 chord wouldn’t nearly as strong.
In minor keys, a lot of times people will substitute the v for the V because of the greater pull it has back to the i. It's so ubiquitous, in fact, that people often assume its presence (especially when speaking in shorthand) even though it's technically a borrowed chord. In the case of secondary dominants, it makes even more sense to assume it's major, because that relative V to relative i/I pull is what really makes the effect land. There's also the fact that in a diatonic scale, like the major scale for example, 2/3 of the possible secondary dominants to minor chords (V/ii & V/vi) just end up being completely diatonic (meaning within the scale) if you don't make them major. On top of *all* of this, (I know, bear with me), when people talk about dominant chords, a lot of the time there's the implication that a dominant 7 chord (1, 3, 5, b7) is the obvious next step/extension (no pun intended) for that chord's function. It's all about feeling pulled to the relative i or I chord, and major chords (especially dominant 7 ones) do it the best. Tl;dr, music theory is usually a whole bunch of separate but interconnected ways of explaining the same ideas, but as long as you have them all knocking around in your head, you can understand the whole and communicate effectively with other musicians :) Also I'm very tired as I write this, so to other commenters: feel free to fill in the gaps in/simplify my explanation
Minor does have that, treat minor, harmonic minor and melodic minor as the same scale bc it is, u just use whatever the song and harmony needs and can take
2:55 Maybe not that never. E° sounds like C7, so I can imagine someone coming up with a chord sequence like F, Bb, B7, E°, F. Maybe in a little fanfare or for comedic effect or something like that.
Within the first minute and few seconds, you explain the easiest way to get a secondary dominant. This has been something that would often confuse me. So thanks for the simplified explanation.
Yeah, that's definetly not something I had in my toolbox before, but now I think I do.
@ikanreed816 I've listened to a few musicians explain this, but I wasn't ever able to wrap my head around it. I felt like I was understanding. But when I tried to apply it, I'd forget how it works.
2:54 "Nobody ever resolves a secondary dominant to a diminished 7 chord."
*CHALLENGE ACCEPTED*
I've absolutely done this
I mean this also assumes ionian, just resolve to a non diminished 7 chord lmao
If it feels resolved please send a video of it
@nathanbegel4505 A diminished chord is never going to sound resolved, but it does sound very shocking if you set it up with a secondary dominant, which can definitely be useful
@@thepotatoportal69 I'm pretty sure you can make anything sound resolved by providing it with the context that makes it so, it doesn't have all that much to do with consonance.
This is the kind of video that makes you think "How have I gone so long without this knowledge before??"
Incredible work, thank you!
So many years of this channel, from a jazz enthusiast, and we finally get the secondary dominant video. Feels like a milestone. Restful.
This is right up there with some of your best videos. Informative, direct, great examples, very clear. I particularly like that you give emotional labels to the V/x chords, such as the lighthearted potential of I VI7 ii I. It really helps to contextualise the abstract theory and lets the imagination run wild. Bravo!
i understand none of what i just listened to for the past 20 minutes, but boy did i enjoy hearing it!
I love secondary dominance, this video made me happy, especially with hearing video game music examples. I do a lot of scientific research now after my time in music school so it’s refreshing to come back to these concepts.
As a musician, hearing a pop song use some secondary dominance adds SO much character compared to the standard pop chord progressions.
I always felt like the concept of secondary dominance is when those outside of the study of music theory start to feel we become too technical, and of course I’m bias but it’s nice to know that such an important and beautiful concept is actually not TOO far deep at all in classical or jazz theory.
Thanks for sharing, I’ve been a fan for years now but keep up the great work.
2:31 man. i really hope we get to see a three houses analysis one day 😢 the leitmotifs in that game are endless
Thank you for that video, you explained this topic very clearly! You're the best music theory channel on yt for me. Thank you very much for your work! :3
Yessir! One of my absolute favourite techniques - great to see your take on this. :)
Absolutely lovely as always. A small thing, the background Civilization footage in the "SD to the vi chord" is not Civ 6 where the theme is present but Civ 5.
This helps a lot! I often struggle with leaving key, and it can make my music very baroque when I'm not trying. Understanding chromaticism as "spice" surrounding central ideas does a lot to help the writing process.
Immediately sat down with my guitar after watching this and came up with a really cool melody/chord progression
8-Bit would be proud, I recently recognized a sus chord in a Davi Vasc Hollowknight OST reaction vid, not bad for a complete music theory layman.
Here's hoping 8-bit or some patrons agree with me on some things I'd love to see covered one day:
Risk of Rain: Entire track is just one constantly repeated leitmotif, RoR2 goes a very different and amazing direction (I like to describe it as "acid space muzak"), but RoR2 brings back that leitmotif of the first game for "...con letitud ponderosa" which is the final level theme and goes SO. FUCKING. HARD.
Secret of Mana: Perfect example of how to do reorchestrations of video game re-makes/re-masters wrong versus how to do them right. The SoM remaster soundtrack is, in a word, unsatisfactory. Meanwhile, Trials of Mana (the remake of SoM2) absolutely nails it in every single possible way.
Contra 3: I reeeeaalllly wanna know how a jazz musician by trade reacts to the absolute tonal and melodic and timing fuckery going on in this game's amazing sci-fi soundtrack.
Lost Ark: Perhaps not as a dedicated video, but if 8-bit goes through any future thematic "Check out how all these games and composers make their boss/adventure/heroic music sound so unique yet land their intended emotion and mood" this game (as arguably bad as it is as an actual MMO despite having the best combat system in an MMO since Tera and best raids of ANY MMO) has music that goes way harder than you'd expect. From "Swords Crossed" to "Astalgia of Phantasm" to the freaking literal broadway play-esque song & dance of "Romantic Weapon" I'd almost go back to this game just for its music if not for how much it wants you to no-life it to actually progress. Heck, just an instrumentation choice video would fit, too, given Akkan's final theme sound like orchestrated death metal (fitting given he is the legion commander of plagues and has a lot of death/undead aspects to him).
One of my favourite secondary dominant is the V/iv in a minor key. It's just so smooth yet so dramatic ✨
For example: Am A7/G Dm/F (throw in the B7/D# for extra spice) E7
By the way amazing video, most of the time I already know what you're talking about but the way you tell things is just so clear and inspiring!
Thanks for the awesome video bro. I was waiting for those Mario Ragtime songs. :)
Great video as always, succinct and incredibly informative!
Point of note, the Dragon Quest main theme used at 18:35 is in the key of C major, not F!
genuinely, you probably make some of the best content on this site
Woooo, my favorite music theory channel covering my favorite advanced topic!!!
9:53 unbelievably accurate depiction of me the first time I ever heard a V7/IV
This channel is gold
Surprisingly helpful and clear!
The fact that the only secondary dominant to 3 chord that 8bit could find is from FF6 by Nobuo Uematsu just shows how mad of a lad Uematsu is at composing music.
Nice video! You have said in previous videos that modern music tends to avoid the V chord because it's such a strong resolution. Does that mean that it tends to avoid secondary dominants even more? Is there a scale from music using no V chord via using dominant V chord to using secondary dominants?
To answer the first question, it would only create an even stronger resolution if it was the secondary dominant of the 5th chord, which the resolves to the tonic, e.g. D7 - G7 - C. Usually they kind of uproot the existing sense of resolution and introduce a new, different one, even if that’s just for a moment.
A lot of modern pop music seems to go for as subtle of harmonic movement as possible, which means both regular and secondary dominants are usually avoided. It would definitely be possible to use secondary dominants but avoid regular V7-I cadences in a piece, but I can't think of any examples off the top of my head!
frankly speaking, fu&# modern music today :)
Love this! The secondary dominant to the iii I always think of as the "Just the Two of Us" progression. It's funny that it was hard to find VGM examples, because it's fairly popular in pop music. I love that progression too, because the iii7 to V7 feels like a secondary dominant, but it just resolves back to the I. Neat!
Thats not how JT2OU would typically be analyzed
@sus-kupp From the way this comment is written it sounds like you have a degree in Just The Two Of Us Analysis
@@enricobianchi4499 how would you prefer I write it?
2:54 I've been taught that it's not done specifically because a secondary dominant can only be applied when the target chord is tonicizable (and given that a diminished chord has no P5, it is not tonicizable)
This has nothing to do with secondary dominants but I just love that I experienced Undertale before I knew anything about Final Fantasy. I had no idea Mettaton was referencing anything...I just rolled with it.
This is super cool though, I didn't know this effect had a name
Thank you for these kinds of videos. Although it would retread some ground I'd love a video on Secondary Dominants in the minor keys.
I love your video so much istg
It may just be me but I love that the SD to IV section felt like it would end on the shop closing theme but then SIKE one more example! Not unlike the chord at hand…
The secondary dominant of the IV chord (in the key of C, that would be C7) is often really effective as a lead into a IV-iv progression. In the key of C this would be C - C7 - F - Fm, which is devastating. Although honestly you don’t even need the root note, Edim is enough for that spot as well
Shining Wisdom? Man, that's digging deep, I don't know anyone outside hard-core shining series fans that know that title.
My ears perked up when I heard the name. I played the HECK out of that on the Saturn.
Completely agree! 🔥🔥
Anyone else notice the secondary dominant to the IV is part of the chorus progression to “Don’t Stop Me Now”? That can’t have just been me!
yknow i think ive been watching you for years now yet i always feel like im pretending to know what you’re talking about lmao
thanks professor 8 bit,, whens your office hours?
SD to V is my favourite. Still actual! jpop wouldnt lemme lie :D
Great video!!
Two questions (and a third):
- Are Secondary Dominants always 7 chords?
- Do they always have to resolve down a fifth?
- And if the answer to either or both of those questions "no", then what makes it different from just any chord not in the scale and not from a parallel mode? Or has it just become a generic music theory term for "We don't actually know the role this chord plays, but it sounds good, so it must be a secondary dominant"? I feel I have seen chords be labelled secondary dominants despite not being a 7th nor resolving down a 5th.
1. no, having the seventh is not required to be a secondary dominant
2. yes, being the 5 of the secondary is what makes it a secondary Dominant. though you could have eg a secondary subdominant
3. it being labeled as a secondary dominant puts it in the context of the next chord rather than the home key, which may be more helpful in certain contexts
Think of the Campfire Song Song from SpongeBob.
The song vamps between I and IV for the first handful of bars until the “ 🎼 *but it’ll help if you just sing along* 🎵 “ line;
where it hits that diatonic *II7* which is the secondary Dominant of the *V7* which it resolves to on “ *a-long* ” now effectively “tonicizing” it.
As a theory professor, I use yoshi's island athletic to teach V/ii as well
i ❤ secondary dominants!!!!!!
17:07 civ 6? i thought this was civ 5
BRAZIL MENTIONED 🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷
Nice stuff, though I wish you would've also talked about how the secondary dominant can be used in minor key centers.
I had a section on that but the video ended up being too long. Maybe for a part 2 one day!
You never mentioned the minor i to, I7, iv. It's used in a lot of classical music. Still a great video.
7:57 I know that harp line 🤔🤔🤔😂
At 14:13 (the SMB2 example), with the D as a secondary dominant going to the G7, the C I'd expect in a secondary dominant isn't present at all. I'm surprised this functions as a secondary dominant without the tritone crunch of the minor 7th/major 3rd- do we just hear it as one due to convention?
Edit: ignore me, I just noticed it in the walking bassline. 🤦♀
0:53 intermediary?
I wish I watched this like two hours ago, when I was still writing music...
Bro's a Gamer
A secondary dominant is pretty similar to modulating to the chord that comes after it. Do you typically resolve back to the I chord (using more dominants) to avoid the feeling of a more permanent modulation?
Absolutely, if you borrow too many chords from another key in a row then the music feels like a full on modulation. But one secondary dominant resolution inside a larger progression just adds some flavour
Do the same kind of video but with borrowed major (maj7,9,#11,13) chords. Please
brazil mentioned
hey, Im new to music theory and Im a little confused... at 1:13 you say, "we pretend to be in the key of G minor" and "what would the 5 Chord in the key of G minor be?" In my understanding that would be D minor, right? but you take D7 and I dont really get it, as I thought in minor the 5th is minor as well. Maybe Im getting something wrong, idk xd
That’s a good question. In the diatonic key of G natural minor, the 5 chord would be a D minor chord. However, a secondary dominant refers to using a V7 chord of the target chord (Gm), which would be D7. This gives it a stronger resolution to G minor, whereas a Dm or even a Dm7 chord wouldn’t nearly as strong.
In minor keys, a lot of times people will substitute the v for the V because of the greater pull it has back to the i. It's so ubiquitous, in fact, that people often assume its presence (especially when speaking in shorthand) even though it's technically a borrowed chord. In the case of secondary dominants, it makes even more sense to assume it's major, because that relative V to relative i/I pull is what really makes the effect land. There's also the fact that in a diatonic scale, like the major scale for example, 2/3 of the possible secondary dominants to minor chords (V/ii & V/vi) just end up being completely diatonic (meaning within the scale) if you don't make them major. On top of *all* of this, (I know, bear with me), when people talk about dominant chords, a lot of the time there's the implication that a dominant 7 chord (1, 3, 5, b7) is the obvious next step/extension (no pun intended) for that chord's function. It's all about feeling pulled to the relative i or I chord, and major chords (especially dominant 7 ones) do it the best. Tl;dr, music theory is usually a whole bunch of separate but interconnected ways of explaining the same ideas, but as long as you have them all knocking around in your head, you can understand the whole and communicate effectively with other musicians :) Also I'm very tired as I write this, so to other commenters: feel free to fill in the gaps in/simplify my explanation
Minor does have that, treat minor, harmonic minor and melodic minor as the same scale bc it is, u just use whatever the song and harmony needs and can take
Is the term "secondary dominant" a classical music term or is it also used in jazz music?
Both!
Ilovesecondarydominantchords
Hell yeah Haikyu!
2:55 Maybe not that never. E° sounds like C7, so I can imagine someone coming up with a chord sequence like F, Bb, B7, E°, F. Maybe in a little fanfare or for comedic effect or something like that.
its all voice leading
its always been voice leading
its nothing but voice leading
learn voice leading
Does anyone else sing Build Me Up Buttercup when playing Starlight Zone 1?
So.... if I made a song with a bunch of secondary dominants and sus chords, would it be nice?
If you like the way it sounds and it makes sense to you, it would definitely be nice.
this video released while i was in music theory II learning about part writing for secondary dominants... 🧍