Could A Single Modern LHA & Cruiser Have Won The Battle Of The Coral Sea? (Naval Battle 99) | DCS

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  • Опубліковано 18 чер 2024
  • We take a look at the 1942 battle of the coral sea. We simulate and ask the question whether a single modern US LHA (USS America) and one modern cruiser(Tico CMP) could have defeated the historical 1942 imperial Japanese fleet.
    Mods: • Free DCS Mods
    PATREON: / grimreapers
    0:00 Overview
    1:06 History
    3:46 Scenario Details
    8:08 Battle
    18:31 BoomBoom
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    THANK YOU TO: Mission Makers, Admin, Staff, Helpers, Donators & Viewers(without which, this could not happen) xx
    #GRNavalBattle #DCSNavalBattle #LHA #LHD #AircraftCarrier #PacificWar #BattleOfTheCoralSea #GR #DCSWorld #Aviation #AviationGaming #FlightSimulators #Military #DCS
  • Ігри

КОМЕНТАРІ • 187

  • @lohrtom
    @lohrtom 11 місяців тому +72

    Cap, carrier would not turn around to get you. During flight ops , a destroyer or frigate trails the ship by a mile. It’s called plane guard, it’s their ship to pick up pilots from botched landings or takeoffs. The pilots also like it because it also serves as a distance from carrier marker.

    • @grimreapers
      @grimreapers  11 місяців тому +15

      thx

    • @Max_Griswald
      @Max_Griswald 11 місяців тому +4

      It's too bad we saved taxpayer money by not having a destroyer or frigate in the carrier group. Sorry Cap!

    • @cojones8518
      @cojones8518 11 місяців тому +9

      And the ship that picks you up demands a ransom before the pilot is returned. Usually paid in ice cream.

    • @TheAmbex
      @TheAmbex 7 місяців тому +1

      ​@@cojones8518I can get behind this tradition 😅

  • @FlameHawke
    @FlameHawke 11 місяців тому +17

    That was amazingly disciplined, and highlights the process where there's one pass b/c a second would be suicide. Well done, and excellent landing on Brandon's part

  • @jrizos06
    @jrizos06 11 місяців тому +13

    Great flying Brandon! We'll have to welcome him into the show favorites of the people's champ and Grump

  • @thalo215
    @thalo215 11 місяців тому +35

    Nicely done Brandon. Had it over a year and not flown it once yet. Great video.

  • @Maverick0451
    @Maverick0451 11 місяців тому +7

    Hell yeah!! This one was really fun!! Hits right in the feels too, I was in the Corps and served on an LHA, the USS Nassau. She had Harriers at the time as well because this was 2005-2006. Great flying as always Grim Reapers!!! Hats off to the Flying Dutchman on this one!!! Got into a new aircraft and stuck the landing on the first go!!!

  • @CzechTex
    @CzechTex 11 місяців тому +2

    Commenting because the ONE TIME I skip a briefing, you rebrief the crew in game.
    Bless you, Cap.

  • @ryanerickson8138
    @ryanerickson8138 11 місяців тому +7

    Well done adding an interesting wrinkle to the war game by using Harrier over F-35.

  • @manjisaipoe517
    @manjisaipoe517 11 місяців тому +23

    Brandon, very impressive display in a new to you aircraft! Thanks for the fun Cap, and all the Reapers on this mission. I really enjoy seeing the older aircraft being used in these ways. Peace.

    • @_Brand0n
      @_Brand0n 11 місяців тому +5

      Thanks for the comment! Its indeed always fun when Cap is recording! I was late so i didn't know what the plan was so bought the plane while Cap was briefing us and learned it mid flight :)

  • @lightningwingdragon973
    @lightningwingdragon973 11 місяців тому +45

    A single modern US destroyer (or frigate) at the Battle off Samar

    • @javierarceo1973
      @javierarceo1973 11 місяців тому +3

      THIS PLEASE!

    • @Benevolent_Fafnir
      @Benevolent_Fafnir 11 місяців тому +1

      I don’t think the US currently has any frigates in service do they? Only LCSs… The Constellation frigates won’t be in service until 2026.

    • @kentgoldings
      @kentgoldings 11 місяців тому +4

      The DCS ship AI is just good enough to make interesting targets. The kind of audacity that psyched-out the Japanese into withdrawal off Samar really isn’t programmed into the simulation. If you replayed the Battle off Samar in DCS, the Japanese would roll over the Taffys.

    • @spartenkiller456
      @spartenkiller456 11 місяців тому +1

      ​@@kentgoldingsIn hindsight, we already knew that. The Japanese saw how hard the US was fighting against insurmountable odds and wondered what sort of reinforcements they had just out of sight. But you're right, that sort of speculation is beyond the scope of the simulation.

    • @kentgoldings
      @kentgoldings 11 місяців тому +2

      @@spartenkiller456 I think the Japanese saw a bunch of destroyers, escorts, and Jeep carriers and imagined they were looking at Battleships, cruisers, and fleet carriers.

  • @jordannewsom4578
    @jordannewsom4578 11 місяців тому +25

    Awesome video as always guys, I just absolutely freaking LOVE these naval battles, please keep doing them!! Idk if y’all have already done this but here’s an idea if you haven’t, how about a single modern carrier takes on the Japanese fleet at the battle of Layte Gulf?? Or a modern Iowa class battleship maybe going up against the Yamamoto? Might have already done that one I think, can’t remember tbh. Please keep up the great videos!!

    • @grimreapers
      @grimreapers  11 місяців тому +7

      It was such a large battle, it's gunna be hard to get to grips with.

    • @ChadEh
      @ChadEh 11 місяців тому +2

      😊

  • @lohrtom
    @lohrtom 11 місяців тому +10

    Let’s go Brandon!

  • @theidajawho
    @theidajawho 11 місяців тому +1

    My fav video so far! TY guys for all the hard work to bring us this joy!

  • @IetsgoBrandon
    @IetsgoBrandon 11 місяців тому +8

    I really appreciate your naval battle. Looking forward to see more🥰

  • @steveturner3999
    @steveturner3999 11 місяців тому +1

    ‘’Matrix, how are you still alive?’’ Clean living Cap. Clean living.

  • @theserpent4495
    @theserpent4495 11 місяців тому +5

    Love the fact you’re using harriers, please use more official modules!

  • @1984Phalanx
    @1984Phalanx 11 місяців тому +11

    Could a modern us carrier win the battle of hastings?

  • @RogueWraith909
    @RogueWraith909 11 місяців тому +2

    Beautifully done Brandon! Beautifully done!

  • @snap4921
    @snap4921 11 місяців тому +2

    Matrix. Great info as always. Great to have someone who been there done that around.

  • @gustavakerfelt6691
    @gustavakerfelt6691 11 місяців тому +1

    Fantastic job guys, well done.

  • @davidguest3506
    @davidguest3506 11 місяців тому +6

    Very cool. I had the pleasure of working on the America just recently. Interesting ship all things considered however already outdated being made of reused parts. Hope to see new Wasp class ships entering service with the ability to provide air and amphibious support.

    • @Wolfe351
      @Wolfe351 11 місяців тому

      what's reused on it?? Building a 1/72 RC LHA2 Saipan.....amongest other models.....

  • @joeltmo
    @joeltmo 11 місяців тому +1

    Awesome. Really enjoy your missions. cant wait for the next pvp campaign episode to drop

  • @Kenneth_James
    @Kenneth_James 11 місяців тому +2

    Brandon makes Cap look like he just started playing today

  • @mavrikmavrik3032
    @mavrikmavrik3032 11 місяців тому +1

    Fun video, I would have loved to see the full end of the battle to see what happens. I don’t mind the longer vids as I watch/listen while I work so I have the time to listen.

  • @Plastikdoom
    @Plastikdoom 11 місяців тому +2

    Ahh yes, the silly, but lovable lawn dart.

  • @nigeldepledge3790
    @nigeldepledge3790 11 місяців тому +2

    I think I know what Cap's problem was with landing the Harrier when low on fuel.
    Cap, you needed a Spanish freighter to set down on. That's always the way when you're low on fuel in a Harrier.

  • @timblack6422
    @timblack6422 11 місяців тому +1

    Well done!

  • @deepat
    @deepat 11 місяців тому +2

    Love hearing you talk about realism in a completely fictional fight, in a game.

  • @corvanphoenix
    @corvanphoenix 7 днів тому

    Great show guys, ty.

  • @fedster187
    @fedster187 11 місяців тому +4

    id love to see you do the Dance of the vampires chapter from tom Clancy's book red storm rising

  • @rosiehawtrey
    @rosiehawtrey 11 місяців тому +3

    Doing great. I can thoroughly not recommend having cancer necrosis... These very interesting, Moskva getting a kicking especially..

  • @adamedwards1937
    @adamedwards1937 11 місяців тому +3

    These battles remind me of John Birmingham's World War 2.0 book series

  • @jyralnadreth4442
    @jyralnadreth4442 11 місяців тому +3

    1990s Royal Navy carriers with Harriers vs IJN Pearl Harbour. I think that would be a very interesting fight with Sea Harriers tangling with Zeros with RAF Harriers pounding ships.

    • @grimreapers
      @grimreapers  11 місяців тому +2

      oof that sounds hard!

  • @dexlab7539
    @dexlab7539 11 місяців тому +1

    WOW Brandon -Well Done! 😊

  • @Jordanpgates1
    @Jordanpgates1 11 місяців тому +1

    Looks like Cap was in God mode again which made this a top-notch video! Fantastic job shifting from plane to plane!

  • @soccernflying5709
    @soccernflying5709 11 місяців тому

    Matrix: 25:56 “Thank you, may I have another!” LOL 😂😂

  • @Pablo668
    @Pablo668 11 місяців тому +2

    Nice work Cap! The Harrier is the only aircraft I have in this game.

  • @kenhelmers2603
    @kenhelmers2603 11 місяців тому +1

    Fun excersize :)

  • @jamison884
    @jamison884 11 місяців тому +3

    Hey Cap, can we put a peantly on your Dutchman? A Max Verstappen dominance penalty. That would make some of us feel a little better.

  • @Hot1765
    @Hot1765 11 місяців тому +1

    Really good laser and landings👌..cap start swimming

  • @iamscoutstfu
    @iamscoutstfu 11 місяців тому +1

    Ok, time to request a scenario.
    I request an alternate us carrier group vs CCP carrier group.
    Instead of 1 supercarrier, id like to see 2-3 LHAs with 4-5 A.Burks and, if possible, Frem frigates.
    I have a theory that multiple light carriers might be a superior model to one single super carrier. It should be more resilient to losses, be able to match the super carrier launch rate, and have a higher rearm-refuel-relaunch rate overall compared to a single super carrier.

  • @randalljones4370
    @randalljones4370 11 місяців тому +1

    Yelling out 'Sparkle' while strapped to a Hairier ... hm ... sounds like Cap's angling for the lead singer role in Judas Priest**.
    But of course, that's GR.
    .... now, transiting with the flaps down ... that's GR perfection !!

  • @svenskdod
    @svenskdod 11 місяців тому +3

    "Only when we all follow orders perfectly can we complete the mission".... he says when the SAM alley mission was a complete cluster... 😂

  • @maximusdecimusgames
    @maximusdecimusgames 10 місяців тому

    I dont always watch the battle scenario/details, but when I do it's bc I fell asleep watching the Playlist.

  • @Politicaloverwatch
    @Politicaloverwatch 11 місяців тому +2

    @ 36:00 😂😂😂😂 llets geaux brandon

  • @THeBoZZHoGG
    @THeBoZZHoGG 11 місяців тому +1

    would be nice to see an actual recreation of this actual battle

  • @jmtpolitico80
    @jmtpolitico80 11 місяців тому +2

    Good job guy's! Specially Brandon!😉

  • @Snowwie88
    @Snowwie88 11 місяців тому +2

    A mission ain't much, if you don't have the Dutch 😄😄

  • @paulheitkemper1559
    @paulheitkemper1559 11 місяців тому +3

    The other point about not splitting the Japanese fleet is that they can provide mutual support. If you split them then you just defeat them in detail.

  • @travisleemusictx
    @travisleemusictx 11 місяців тому +2

    Fun fact: Lexington was never sunk, Japan just kept *thinking* they sunk it, and then it would be back attacking them later. It's a museum ship now, i drive right by it every day.

    • @haroldbenton979
      @haroldbenton979 11 місяців тому

      The CV2, the first Lexington, was sunk it was her sister, the Saratoga CV3 that kept coming back for more after getting torpedo hits. However the one that they declared sunk and would keep turning up time and again was Enterprise. She literally was the only carrier in combat for a bit after we lost the Wasp and Hornet after the Saratoga took yet another torpedo.

    • @travisleemusictx
      @travisleemusictx 11 місяців тому +1

      @haroldbenton979 you know what, you're right. The Lexington I know was almost finished with construction when that Lex sunk, and they changed her name to Lexington last minute before launch to commemorate it, thus the dates are so close together it's easy to get the Coral Sea Lex and THIS Lex mixed up.

    • @travisleemusictx
      @travisleemusictx 11 місяців тому

      @haroldbenton979 still true about the CV-16 Lex being declared defeated by Japan multiple times though, they started calling it the Blue Ghost. Badass ship.

  • @tom23rd
    @tom23rd 11 місяців тому

    I have to push back: maybe people skip the briefing, but I love the briefing. Context is important, and so is knowing the intent. Especially before railing on people in the comments. You best not stop doing them damn it. 😅❤

  • @michaelperrin2531
    @michaelperrin2531 11 місяців тому +2

    Good landing Brandon

  • @dannycostello
    @dannycostello 11 місяців тому +1

    Imagine if they fully integrated VR into this game

  • @daniellee5192
    @daniellee5192 11 місяців тому

    I enjoyed that immensely. Note every mistake cost you an aircraft.

  • @TheWeirdLateNightPodcast
    @TheWeirdLateNightPodcast 11 місяців тому

    Hey Cap, I was just wondering if that losses gui may be available to download (the red losses, blue losses) thing

  • @IAlwaysWantedToTryThat
    @IAlwaysWantedToTryThat 11 місяців тому +2

    One of these days I'd love to see the classic Pearl Harbor attack done with the worst plane of the early-war era (ie Brewster Buffaloes) instead of the best (ie: Mitsubishi Zeroes) just to see how much comes down to tactics & numbers versus skill & equipment. Plus ... c'mon, 350 Brewster Buffaloes filling the skies!

  • @TimperialBroadcastingAgency
    @TimperialBroadcastingAgency 11 місяців тому

    Could you imagine being on that simulated IJN fleet? You're prepped for action, the strike force is away, then you get the action warning once the radars have picked up all six (!) incoming fighters. Obviously a recon element; that's an impossibly weak strike force. You can only barely see the alien-looking planes and can barely hear them. They start orbiting at the extreme range of your big guns, but no one is going to waste time on throwing flak through the 120mm dual-purpose cannon for single aircraft, especially when there's already a CAP going.
    Then, suddenly, one after the other in the span of a few minutes, all those carriers you're escorting explode as single quadruple-weight bombs blow giant holes in them amidships. The entire Fifth Carrier Division, bloop, gone.
    And the fighters leave after chucking a couple more bombs for good measure, and because that cruiser over there clearly offended their sensibilities or something. No frenetic close-in shooting, no forest of salt-spray pillars from dozens of misses, just... some tense moments waiting, a quick metaphorical punch to the face, and over.

  • @hmmjedi
    @hmmjedi 11 місяців тому

    Just a quick note CAP out in the mid-ocean the shark I would be afraid of most is the Oceanic White Tip even Jacques Cousteau called it the most dangerous of all sharks... The Whitetip is also thought to be the shark most responsible for the death of sailors from the USS Indianapolis and near South Africa, it's a global warm water shark, RMS Nova Scotia was sunk by a uboat and many of the deaths where attributed to the Whitetip... but great video by you all...

  • @quantumcomata105
    @quantumcomata105 11 місяців тому +1

    Valued viewer reporting! Let's have it Valued Narrator & Narringtons!

  • @onnokis5596
    @onnokis5596 11 місяців тому +2

    Modern Submarine vs ww2 submarine u-boat

  • @81HM
    @81HM 11 місяців тому +4

    I'm not really a fan of beating up on 80 year old tech with modern stuff. The landings were nice though.

  • @Wolfe351
    @Wolfe351 11 місяців тому +1

    there was a mod pack available for the Spanish/Aussie LHD which also had the Spanish and RAN F100 class DDGs, I downloaded it ages ago but it seems of have vanished....

  • @jonathanhirschbaum6754
    @jonathanhirschbaum6754 11 місяців тому +1

    NEVER leave a team member behind

  • @luxordeathbed
    @luxordeathbed 11 місяців тому +4

    Can't wait to see a modernized battleship scenarios in the future. Whenever it happens.

  • @MrEricErwin
    @MrEricErwin 11 місяців тому +1

    I don't see that boat turning around for you capt.

    • @grimreapers
      @grimreapers  11 місяців тому +1

      I guess I'll swim after it?

  • @maze7571
    @maze7571 11 місяців тому

    let's go brandon!

  • @jonathantoymaker
    @jonathantoymaker 11 місяців тому +3

    How about a NATO fleet vs Poseidon......

  • @matthewjackson5325
    @matthewjackson5325 11 місяців тому

    how do we get the script for the $ tracking. we are trying to write our own and struggling. any info is helpful thanks.

  • @mrdee734
    @mrdee734 11 місяців тому +1

    Simba GALORES!

  • @timbaskett6299
    @timbaskett6299 8 місяців тому

    I have an idea for a bit of a fun video. Could the Grim Reapers crew land warbirds on a LHA/LHD? Pegasus.....the next best thing to a Merlin!!! I wish I could show you my design for the "AV-24". It is about the size of a Harrier, with twin vertical stabilizers on two fuselage extentions, and the rotating main nozzle like the F-35B, but the forward nozzles like the Harrier, and a reduced observability/planform design like a Gen 5 aircraft. I "designed" it when the F-35B was first announced, and I personally hated the thought of losing the Harrier's profile in the air.

  • @Wolfe351
    @Wolfe351 11 місяців тому

    is there a link for the LHA mod?? It looks a little to blue for the hull colouration should be same grey as the Tico

  • @JohnDoe_75
    @JohnDoe_75 11 місяців тому

    The "WOW" clip is from a Belgian folk figure called "Eddy Wally" who was quite a figure, old people liked his stuff but he was a bit of a joke to the rest of the country. He passed away in 2016.

  • @scottclark7592
    @scottclark7592 2 місяці тому

    when they were landing it reminded me of the old lunar landing video game from the 80s

  • @MiG82au
    @MiG82au 11 місяців тому +1

    Don't fly a Harrier back home at M0.91 if you're lacking fuel.

  • @196cupcake
    @196cupcake 11 місяців тому +1

    Hey Cap, what time do you guys have fireworks over there?

    • @grimreapers
      @grimreapers  11 місяців тому +1

      5th November I think.

  • @bearcatracing007
    @bearcatracing007 11 місяців тому +2

    I want to see Super Cap v Super Cap 😂

  • @isaiahwelch8066
    @isaiahwelch8066 11 місяців тому +1

    Cap, have an idea for you! In the 1980s, an F-15E piloted by an Israeli pilot collided with an A-6 Avenger, and lost a wing. But rather than go dowm, the pilot basically ignited afterburners, and landed the plane at twice landing speed, and managed to stop with 15 feet of runway left. Think you or your boys could do the same thing, and succeed like the Israeli pilot did?
    The second scenario is that of an A-10 that got hit by an RPG-7 in Eastern Baghdad in 2005. The pilot, "KC" Campbell, managed to fly 90 minutes back to base, on purely mechanical control, and with only one engine. Again, think you or your boys could succeed flying an injured A-10 on only one engine, and no hydraulics?

  • @yuriyantropov2004
    @yuriyantropov2004 11 місяців тому +1

    Can you tell me how to make the same loss statistics in the right-hand corner as in the video? Is this a custom mod, or can it be downloaded somewhere?

    • @grimreapers
      @grimreapers  11 місяців тому +1

      That mod is just for GR, sorry.

  • @thegeneral4943
    @thegeneral4943 9 місяців тому

    Fun fact: in spite of the USN getting hurt more than the IJN, the USN still won in a strategic sense; as the Japanese expansion into the South Pacific near Australia was stemmed, if only temporarily. Also, it put 3 IJN carriers out of action (1 permanently, 2 until Guadalcanal).

  • @anathardayaldar
    @anathardayaldar 11 місяців тому +3

    I thought IJN didn't have radar. So stealth planes are unnecessary.

  • @clangerbasher
    @clangerbasher 11 місяців тому +2

    A LHA in 'sea control' role could have up to 20 Harriers.

  • @davewarrender2056
    @davewarrender2056 11 місяців тому

    Ffs , your flying harriers , let the plane get closer , jam on the air brake , vector thrust nozzle forward to also change height , planes go over the top you , light it up with cannon fire. This is wat made these planes so good

  • @drrocketman7794
    @drrocketman7794 11 місяців тому

    I'm surprised that the old propeller driven planes with the Mk. I eyeball radar and 7.7mm machine guns are actually a serious threat to a modern military aircraft.

  • @5Andysalive
    @5Andysalive 11 місяців тому +1

    The bombs even have an iron sight on top.

  • @Sam-li9fx
    @Sam-li9fx 11 місяців тому +3

    French carrier strike group vs Russian carrier strike group?

  • @bigmull
    @bigmull 11 місяців тому +2

    I wonder how the Harriers would fare againdt the Bismark?

    • @LatitudeSky
      @LatitudeSky 11 місяців тому

      The LongTom gun would take them ou -oh wait, wrong Bismark. Don't mind me.

  • @werecatpodguski
    @werecatpodguski 11 місяців тому +2

    Cap has scratch one flat top!

  • @mirvjournal1693
    @mirvjournal1693 9 місяців тому

    " I don't want my poorly maintained aircraft to blow up."

  • @mrhedgebull1658
    @mrhedgebull1658 11 місяців тому

    Just a thought Cap, given how well the bombs worked and how much redundancy there was with them, would it have been worth using a couple of the Harriers for providing air cover and hopefully prolonging the time over the enemy fleet to take out some more of the cruisers as well?

    • @grimreapers
      @grimreapers  11 місяців тому +1

      Agreed. We figured we would miss most of the bombs, hence the redundancy.

    • @mrhedgebull1658
      @mrhedgebull1658 11 місяців тому

      @@grimreapers Possibly retry with a couple of planes on air cover to see how much damage could be inflicted?

  • @thebatt6183
    @thebatt6183 11 місяців тому

    No mercy in this game

  • @TheLuftpolsterfolie
    @TheLuftpolsterfolie 11 місяців тому

    A single modern us carrier vs both factions from the battle of hastings

  • @TexasCat99
    @TexasCat99 11 місяців тому

    Should of kept the 5 mine sweepers, 2 mine layers, 3 gunboats, oiler, 12 transports ships of the Japanese to make the work harder in terms of targeting.

  • @Dirtyharry70585
    @Dirtyharry70585 11 місяців тому

    Maybe load 4 Harrys with external gun pods and the new smart rockets. For other’s defense

  • @gotafarmyet4691
    @gotafarmyet4691 11 місяців тому +1

    Wait, What, Everything went right how is this a Grim Reapers Video?
    The one advantage that is not programmable is that the guys going back would have information on the areas the enemy would be going after and simply position themselves to avoid those areas. Also with the normal assets that would have been there, still sending in their forces as decoys would make it even easier.

  • @amargen
    @amargen 2 місяці тому

    no gun pods?

  • @robertnijkamp2051
    @robertnijkamp2051 9 місяців тому

    I've a question could a modern day abdcon fleet win against the japanese in the battle of the Java sea. with the correct helicopters on board

  • @wilbie247
    @wilbie247 11 місяців тому

    Can you create modern carrier fleet against the royal navy from the Middle Ages.

  • @trev8591
    @trev8591 11 місяців тому +1

    Brilliant, chaps! Brandon the new People's Hero?

  • @Kaelland
    @Kaelland 11 місяців тому +1

    Technically, the US Navy did operate the AV-8B Harrier II, but not operationally. VX-9 and VX-31 both operated the Harrier II, but both of those are test and evaluation squadrons.
    As far as the Marines go, VMA-214 retired the Harrier II in 2022. VMA-231 is still using the Harrier II, and they're not set to retire those aircraft until 2026. VMA-223 is set to keep their Harrier IIs in service until 2027.

  • @colerape
    @colerape 10 місяців тому

    I thought the Harriers had a couple of 25mm cannon?

  • @Algux
    @Algux 11 місяців тому +1

    The Answer is no, despite your previous game play. The enemy is never stupid. They would not make it easy for you and they did in that last video. Also one enemy sub would have scuppered your previous battle. Now a single modern carrier with accompanying ships is different. That would be an easy win. Great Video btw.

    • @Briselance
      @Briselance 11 місяців тому +1

      The enemy would not be stupid. But they would still be outgunned. It could have done the trick, I think.