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Understanding PTO | What is it? How does it work? What types are there?
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- Опубліковано 3 сер 2024
- PTOs, or power take-offs, have been staples on the backs of tractors for decades. Even before older machines had the three-point hitch, the stub shaft in the back allowed for power to be directed to an implement. There are 4 main drive mechanisms that provide power to the shaft. Neil walks through how each of them functions.
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I’m Bob Casey just wanted to comment on all your videos. I just bought a new l2501 hst with r-4 tires, quick disconnect bucket , set of forks and 5 foot brush cutter. I’ve learned so much by watching your videos. I can see you tell the truth about tractors. Thanks for all work explaining about almost everything people need to know. From Clarksville tn. Keep them coming.
Bob Casey
I'm a new and first time tractor owner, and Neil's (Messick's) videos taught me a lot...taught me what I needed to know when I stepped onto the dealer lot, which in my case was 100% pointless as they had absolutely no inventory. I already knew what suited my needs due to size constraints because of my small property and small shop/barn areas. I bought a BX2680. I knew the backhoe wouldn't be used enough to justify the cost, so I went with the BX2680 because I knew I'd inevitably want/need PTO powered implements and wanted the most available power. After 9 months I am very happy with my purchase, this little tractor continues to surprise me at what it really can do in such a small package. I am picking up a 60" mid mount mower for it this coming weekend.
Hey Neil really enjoyed the open house. Today I got a $100 gift card door prize in the mail and I really appreciate that! You guys are a class act! Thanks!!
Thanks! Hope it goes towards something cool or useful.
This was great! It was hard to find a simple explanation of how the pto is connected to the driveline, and this covered what I was looking for and then some!
I have a Landini tractor that has 540 1000 and ground speed PTO and the ground speed PTO is a rare feature, we mostly used it for a power trailer to assist in muddy conditions. But I can see it being useful in rare cases where an implement needs power at the a rate that is directly proportional to the ground speed. This type of thing does happen although usually the implement is getting ground speed a different way such as my fertilizer spreader I gets ground speed by a special hub on the rear wheel of the tractor that is connected to a PTO shaft that drives the rate that fertilizer is released. This makes the spreader extremely accurate and allows the actual speed of the tractor to change without changing the rate per acre. Another thing not mentioned here is that a mechanically engaged pto is easier to connect then a hydraulically engaged one.
I believe the earliest Tractor driven mounted PTO that wasn't a Belt pully was an 8-16 international kerosene tractor around 1917. Only one is currently known to exist. They only had two implements. A tractor mounted wheat binder and a underslung sickle bar mower. They had marked the binder but i'm not sure about the mower.
Very interesting. I remember some of the things when running other people’s older tractors like running a brush hog and having the tractor lurch forward and pushing in the clutch and having the pto stop running. I have hydrostatic trans so don’t have that issue. Now I understand how the other tractors pto worked. Thanks for the info.
Thanks, few people understand the Evolution of the PTO! I remember getting the transmission and the mower locked together on a clump of grass. Then they came out with that clutch thing you were talking bout. My brother had a Deere A or B that had a lever in the back right side that controlled the PTO. Just saying.
I spend tooo much time looking at the butts of tractors on the internet... Good info Neil as always
Thanks Neil, very educational.
Great explanation Neil! 👍💪
My 2003 Kubota B7500hst had a clutch for engaging the PTO and shifting between Hi or Lo range & that worked just fine
I hope econo-PTO NEVER goes away... it's that much less revolutions and wear on the engine itself. 1550 rpm vs 2100 rpm - do the math. I use it in a lot for urea spreading, bale processing, or on a generator if the power goes out. Zero reason for a 150 hp engine to be screaming.
Both mechanical or electronically engaged PTOs both have pros and cons... one thing with a mechanical lever engagement is it really nice for starting implements that have a high startup load like a grain vac. The TS6 series thankfully has the option.
My tractor is way too small for that feature but I understand what its benefits are, and like you there's no reason to need full engine RPMs in a lot of cases for a PTO implement on a large tractor for sure.
Great video! New L2501 owner here. I'd also love to see a video of all the 3pt hitch adjustments and why I would adjust it one way or the other. I have top link holes, stabilizer adjustments, screw adjustments for leveling. It's a bit overwhelming :)
good idea. I'll try and do this one.
In any case, respect the PTO! I don't have the stats but based on experience, I'll bet it is the no.1 killer on farms.
I think people getting run over/crushed would be number one, but PTO or PTO driven implements like augers and choppers probably cause a lot of injuries as well.
Thank you for the info, sir! Much appreciate - Good stuff!
Very educational! Thank you.
Thank you for the video.
Great video
Love ❤️ your videos
Great info
hooking up a pto is sometimes a pain. I use a paint stick and mark the tractor pto. when I hook up a item , I paint a dot on the shaft so it always lines up. Easy Pesie.
I'd love to see a video on PTO driven blowers for compact tractors. Most everything I have found is commercial focused (golf courses, parks) but I need something for home. 10 acres with lots of trees is too much for a backpack blower.
They should make something for the BX and B series tractors that utilizes the front 4 point hitch/PTO link system since they already have that system for the snow blower, broom, and plow.
Big thank you
We have a Ford 841 diesel. I can't count how many times I've ended up with a tree just inside the front tire and the back tires spinning while waiting for the bush hog to stop spinning so I could back up.
Kubota removed that clutch pedal on the new L3301. Stupid move. I say this because on my old l3301 I liked using the clutch to bring in my pto slowly for say like starting my post hole auger.
The new m7060 I have don’t have that option. A lot of guys I know who has those tractors are now running clutches because of the sudden torque that shaft has once you twist the yellow electric knob to engage the pto.
the next person will complain they can't use their steering brakes because the clutch pedal is there. Fair alternative is to throttle down before engaging.
@@MessicksEquip
Im not complaining get into one of your M7060s over there hook up a 72 inch brush hog at idle and turn the yellow pto knob. And if your lucky you won’t shear the pin. Better yet try it at the 540e?
Get on some tractor talk sites and see what people are doing and talking about how there engaging there pto what there breaking and solutions there coming up with.
I’m not dogging kubota I love there equipment but god forbid if you mentioned something that should of been maybe left alone.
Tractor Time with Tim had an issue with the PTO shaft that was too close to the drawbar and differences with Kubota and JD. He claims SAE standard is JD and Kubota is not standard., as I recall. Can you address this is in a video?
I try not to make videos correcting others. I'm not sure what Time was really trying to get at. He was insisting on connecting a CV driveline made for a 75hp tractor to a small compact. Not something I have ever run into in the real world.
can you do a video on the proper way to engage the PTO on a 2501 hydrostatic. Do you raise the rpm and then move the pto lever or the other way. thanks
Question: You mentioned the hydrostatic transmissions use an actuator? How robust is that actuator? Is that part an item that if it breaks that you have to pull apart the tractor to fix? Questions from a rookie, me! Thank you again on explaining these benefits on a farm tractor I've learned and continue too!!
I would not say one design is radically more reliable. Taking care to Engauge things at low RPM and gently would help longevity.
The PTO on my BX2680 when I move the lever to the engaged position, its operating a set of clutches hydraulically to engage the PTO, and its mechanically done. The electromagnetic PTO engagement is the same thing, except its done using an electromagnet on the clutch pack rather than a mechanical lever assembly. The electromagnetic clutch works like the AC Compressor clutch does on your car. When you press the button, or turn the knob, it sends an electrical current to the magnet, which causes it to lockup to the clutch plate pushing it to the engaged position...which in many cases is quite abrupt. This same type of principle works in many 4WD "auto" modes in trucks and SUV's. A magnetic clutch activates the 4WD when demanded. The manual system works kind of like your clutch in a manual transmission car, and can be slowly engaged for smooth engagement rather than a sudden jolt, as you would get if you shifted into a gear and dumped the clutch, which is what typically occurs with those newer electrically engaged PTO systems do, its either on or off (engaged or disengaged), there's no "slipping the clutch" on those.
Using a lower RPM, a couple hundred RPM above idle is plenty to engage the PTO. You don't want to run your RPM up to PTO speed then engage it that's where you'll find yourself breaking shear pins and causing shock load damage to the implement and/or your tractor.
Great video, Neil, thanks for making this! This is the best explanation I've heard about the various PTO types. (The Kubota brochures, manuals, etc. don't really do a good job of clarifying the differences, unfortunately.) But of course, one question: if I'm understanding correctly, the difference between the L3901 HST (which has a PTO clutch pedal and I believe an on/off lever) and the L3902 HST (with a "push button"), is the L3902 has a hydraulic system to engage the PTO, as opposed to the 01's clutch pedal. But once the PTO is engaged on *either* model, the operation of the PTO is identical, i.e. you can "shift" the HST range (L ,M,H) and the PTO will continue to spin. Does that sound correct?
Yes you understand it perfectly 👍
@@blessed7fold Eureka! haha, thanks
spot on
@@MessicksEquip Well, only because of this video. Thanks again!
You still have to stop to change HST ranges though. But otherwise you are correct. My BX2680 has a hydraulically engaged manual PTO lever engagement but its sure nice to keep things smooth and easy during the engagement, its not abrupt like I think every electromagnetically engaged PTO (the ones with the yellow knob switches).
How do you disconnect the shaft from the cutter?
I saw a MX 6000 in the video. Do you have one with a cab and loader?
waiting list.
Do any of the pto’s have a brake when you disengage them?
I have a L3240 HSTC-3 with a yellow twist knob. I’m assuming independent Electric start PTO? My question is do I need to use the clutch to engage the PTO or just simply turn the yellow PTO knob at low RPM’s ?
Thanks
Either works.
You forgot PTO engaged by strap and throttle and their is male PTO and female PTO
Question, you mention RPM of the PTO generally 500 or 1000. I have an L6060 with a snowblower on the front running off the Mid PTO and run it at 1500 RPM. What did I misunderstand? Or is there some factor I am unaware of due to this being run off the Mid?
Mid PTO is a different animal. Does not follow the conventions that the rear does.
Neal, how does the weight of a sprayer or hydraulic pump affect the pto shaft and seals? We just slide on pumps and really don't think about the weight of it on the shaft. Should these pumps be supported somehow? Maybe this will prevent premature wear of the seals or possibly bending the shaft?
Can't see it being a problem. It can't be much heavier than that big PTO shaft.
This is kind of off-topic. I was just on the Kubota website and was trying to price out a few different tractors. I noticed the MX series is no longer listed. I know they just updated a couple of the Standard L series tractors to "02" from "01". I was wondering if they are changing the MX models also or dropping them completely?
Look again, it's there.
Have you ever had a new tractor come in with a defective pto shaft ? The shaft on my 6060 wobbles, it is not loose, it just wobbles. I have given up on my dealer, so I either need to not use the pto or find a independent mechanic to try to fix it for me. It was the first time I tried to use it, it had less the 50 hrs on it when I tried it. Also the trans started making a slight weering noise after I tried to use the pto ??
Its under warranty, I'd get it into a different dealer to be looked at.
@@MessicksEquip thanks.
I just bought a new Kubota 40 HP in Thailand and the transmission drives the tractor before the PTO comes in really annoying . the tractor moves when mowing before the pTO starts the mower
I have a 2019 L3901 HST bought used with just under 300 hours. I have noticed recently that my PTO stub shafts is turning even when it is disengaged. It only turns when the tractor is in motion and increases rotational speed when the tractor increases speed. I don’t believe there is actually power being applied to the PTO. Is this normal or something I should be concerned with? I checked my hydraulic fluid levels and they are fine.
I need help understanding something. With the case magnum 310 while PTO is engaged is it ok to shift from forward to reverse without disengaging it or lowering the RPMs?
Yes.
will you do a video of the rtv x900
I have done x1100, most everything there applies to x900.
@@MessicksEquip but it has a cab and that was 4 years ago
I have a L2501 Kubota with a single stage clutch. Is it possible to switch out my L2501 single stage with a 2 stage clutch like on the L3901? Or is that impossibly expensive.
Not economical
@@MessicksEquip Thank you
Does the PTO and implement (of a tractor) turn on at the same time?
Yes
I have a ? I want to buy a trencher for my New Holland powerstar 65 its a 4 cylinder diesel roughly 65 HP. I am not sure if I should buy the 3pt rear attachment or the front attachment since I have the skidsteer quick connections. But, I am sure if I would get more power to the trencher attachment from the front loader or the back shaft of the tractor
Much more from the rear PTO, but probably a lot fewer options for trenchers as well.
I have a gear drive l2501 and bought a wallenstien fx40 winch. Can you run the pto with the tractor sitting still and operate the winch?
I believe this model requires you to be in the seat.
@@MessicksEquip I just bought a wallenstien skidder winch which requires you to stand off to the side and operate a pull cable to activate the winch I wonder what I’d need to do to remedy me not being on the tractor to work it
@@samwilliams9374 I can't say 100% for sure, but I think those tractors have a flip forward seat switch. If you flip the seat front, it may still run the PTO. If that's not the case, your only option is to get creative with the safety switches.
@@neilmessick2043 thank you I appreciate your advice
How did the auction go
Fantastic
This is a very plausible concept.
Can you remember the old International Scout? It had a standard p.t.o. (power take off) on the front end using the vehicles own power that can run various farm equipment. It was a novel idea.
Okay now think about the capabilities of the Tesla that can park its self.The future Tesla could pull into the new off grid charging station, sort of like a Rumba vac does except its on board guides it to connect the p.t.o. and power connections to a generator. Once connected the Tesla starts turning a generator 72KW 3phase generator that can charge the Tesla at the same rate as current charging stations does.
Like the international p.t.o. running farm equipment. This is totally off the grid and now you have a totally self sustainable Tesla.
The old Willy's had a PTO option as well, and current heavy duty trucks still do and most times when equipped they're hooked up to a hydraulic pump for a dump bed or something of that nature...but definitely still an option. Too bad there really hasn't been much of a market for it to catch on and companies build different attachments for them, but then again you probably don't want to drive your F350 around your field pulling a PTO implement LOL...but who knows.
@@wildbill23c but what if you have a cabin out in the middle of nowhere and your driving a new Tesla truck that just so happens to have a p.t.o. that can supply a recharge to itself and run a 20kw generator. Did the light bulb just kick off with some? This technology is in our faces and not a god dam corporation is interested in developing it WHY?
@@tinybetron8701 How exactly do you plan on charging the Tesla, or any electric vehicle? You can't just plug it into itself LOL. As cool as you think it sounds, running a generator off an electric vehicle to charge the electric vehicle won't work, you'll use far more power trying to run the generator off a PTO than you will replace. Lots of parasitic loss in that. Solar system would be your best option, and add in wind turbines as well....then you don't need a generator at all, just an inverter...which also has parasitic loss converting to AC from a battery bank, just as your electric vehicle would be doing trying to convert from the generator output back to the voltage for charging its batteries...would be interesting to see this and see if it would somehow be possible with today's technology, to not have a bunch of loss in power conversion DC to AC and back to DC.
Good lord another solar company dick. You fucken guys are holding up progress in total green energy without wind or your precious solar that only works in sunny climate without snow.
The remote power using the vehicals own power is all mechanical 100% doable. Fucken prove me wrong. Also if you took one ,just one of the new carbon wrapped Tesla motors you can run a 72kw generator to power itself and a 20 kw whole house generator at the same time.
It's nice but it's not Blue
Mmmmm mhm