In his attempts to end his concerns for money and get access to "nice" things, Tom Wambsgans put up with a lot from Shiv Roy. He knew had a brawler when he walked in on Shiv and Roman fighting in Season 1 and it was obvious she could hold her own. Shiv made every attempt to get him to walkout on their marriage but he hung in there. Actually, he got to know Shiv better than she knew herself. In the end, Tom knew how she going to vote. In the end, she would always be a Roy, but she is carrying a Wambsgans. The king, Logan, is dead. A dynasty in the making has to have seed planted somewhere ---- Roy-Wambsgans. Does he love her? I think so. Does Shiv love Tom? I think so, but the emotion scares her. Would she have behaved in the same manner to Nate had they married. I think so. She is who she is ---an emotionally scarred brawler who has been very angry the entire series. THIS WAS WELL DONE.!
Nate has a history of screwing Shiv over when the going gets tough. He's very much a teacher's pet. He also isn't a killer, not willing to play the Roys' game - but he will save his own arse. Tom takes Shiv with him, cause that is what all he wanted from their relationship: her support, to make sure that she was in his corner. When not even offering to go to jail settled that, he knew he had to betray her to get her respect, which he eventually did. Upfront, it seems like Nate and Shiv are a better match but no way is she gonna learn from her mistakes or navigate her family's business if she didn't have a mature perspective of Tom. In some ways, Tom and Shiv mirror each other's insecurity and equally are dependent on each other.
Shiv would be easily controlled and manipulated for a man above her station. She specifically dbed down in order to impose her will and avenge years of her father’s torment.
@@yungyacht Once Logan died Tom, who only had his lifestyle to lose, found his voice. He found that he could verbally handle Siobhan. He knew that she was unhappy with her blood family, so he let her know that their marriage was hers to lose.
You notice that ever since her dad died, she becomes more confused, clueless and have no direction even has no idea what to do with Tom anymore? Because usually, she's always feeling powerful as her dad was still there even when she and her dad didn't get along, she will stay confident.
@@margarethmichelina5146it was like Logan gave her some kind of confidence Besides in season 4 she was not mentally stable because of the marriage problems plus her pregnancy plus Logan’s death and her brothers so she was like alone all the time even worse after Logan’s death she always had to watch her back That’s my opinion
What's so wonderful about their relationship is that Shiv thought she was holding all the cards in this relationship theoughout the seasons. She got a little bit of a clue of how masterful Tom was at the end of the second season. But her flaw was and will always be is that she always undersestimated tom. He's miles ahead of her at every turn. Excellent show
Sorry, but I would have missed it too. Siobhan can be so cutting, perhaps Tom thought that she forgot about Kendall's two kids. Or, Tom thought with Logan's attitude toward Kendall's kids, grandchildren were not that important to Logan.
Their last phone call is missing. Tom agrees to amicable divorce (Czecoslovakia->Velvet Divorce). She doesn't respond. But offers Tom a "real relationship" at a time when she doesn't know that Tom wil be CEO. Tom replies that he "doesn't know" he's still hurt by their balcony scene and he mustn't relly want to have her as his superior . In the car, why does Shiv "congratulate" Tom when they both know Shiv's vote made him CEO ? And why is Tom pretending to be modest (Oh no no) when he should be thanking her instead, right ?🤔😊
I think Tom tells Shiv "Oh, No No" because he knew that she has now divorced herself from her brothers. She was already, as her brothers were, estranged from their Mother. I think that Tom, always ahead of Shiv, realizes that it is going to be he and his family that will take care of the baby that he begged her for and her. The Roys were a business entity, which Tom could really see being an outsider.
@@annkey4091 I agree with the "divorce" between Shiv and Ken even she had doubts from the beginning (s1-s2) about his abilities to lead Waystar. When you "push" someone, you don't "congatulates" them and normally the person thaks you. Shiv changed her mindset about Tom after he showed "rebelliousness" and "independence" by betraying her. They kept their wedding rings all the season 4. Except Tom who doesn't have it at the start of e1 but has it at the end of it. And they stayed connected all the season despite their marital estrangement. She showed jealousy towards Tom"s real or supposed conquests. She didn't have an abortion even though she thought about it. It was she "the girl inside Waystar" who saved "Tom of Siobban" at the helm of ATN by establishing the Kill list for Matsson. They publicy play Bitey. Shiv : TOM WAMBSGANS FINALLY MADE ME FEEL SOMETHING !. At their last phone call Tom agrees to an amicable divorce (Czecoslovakia->Velvet Divorce). She'll not follow up this proposal. Tom : IT WOULD BE CONVENIENT BECAUSE YOU WOULD BE MARRIED TO YOUR HUSBAND ! and YOU'VE FALLEN IN LOVE FINALLY !. She asks him for a "real relationship" at a time when she doesn't know that Tom wil be CEO. In the end, Shiv returns to their original plan which was support him to become CEO, but by knowing and accepting each other better. I think she's congatulating him because he won their marital "fight" and everything he wanted from the beginning : CEO + SHIV + MONEY + CHILD. Hence Tom's false modesty (whilehe'sinternallyjubilant), and his respect for her who she's on the verge of tears because she's affected by everything that was happened in recent days. Jesse Armstrong spoke about Non-Victory and Non-Defeat about Shiv. End of SCRIPT BOOK for Shiv and Tom in the car : An accomodation, an equilibrium that could last with a certain stabilty, proxy wars and detentes for many years to come..nothing needy from either side. A queen and a prince. Two bombs being transported with great care. Podcast HBO SUCCESSION "With open eyes" Part II with Mark Mylod (who directed 16 episodes) on UA-cam
@@corinne6011 Nicely written and done much better than I ever could. I always felt that if Shiv ever became CEO of Waystar|RoyCo, that Tom had to be there for the heavy lifting. Kendall and Roman would have tried to break her at every turn. I did not know that Tom would be the "successor", but I wondered about him starting in Season 1. When he had that meeting with Kendall at the diner in Season 3 and told him, to his face, that he was loser, and the way that he walked through the halls at his return, you could see killer in his eyes. If he won, he was bringing Shiv, kicking, cursing, screaming and crying. The guy loved her, in spite of everything.
@@annkey4091 Thank you, it's the writers of this show who have done a very good job ! I had to watch the last season several times, and à bit of others, to find a logic in it (just mine). I think that Shiv asks Tom a real relationship and he replies "I DON'TKNOW", it's because he doesn't really want to have her as his superior while still being a couple. He would have experienced it as too much humiliation and inferiorization. At Connor's, I believe that when he tells her "IT'S ME", he's emotionally blackmailing : if you want a real relationship, then vote for the sale so that I can become CEO. At the time, she rects badly because she's upset and sees that he's gaining influence overher. With this finale, even he if only a "puppet" of Matsson, Tom is still freed from the tutelage of the Roys. They have a sort of balance of power. Shiv's fortune,which is lasting,gives her a geater power of influence than that of Tom whose status is less transitory. But, he understood that he had to take leadership in their couple because Shiv will always be a "broken" and therefore an immature person. This final arc Ken/Shiv/Tom resembles the finale of The Graduate with Ken as the ex-groom-to-be abandoned in the middle of the wedding ceremony and Shiv/Tom in place of the ex-bride-to-be who ran away with her lover who came to kidnap her. The car scene also resembles the bus scene at the end of the film.
Thanks Man! I was going Crazy thinking that i was the only one having the same LINE of thoughts when people in the overall comments are saying that shiv and tom are over and there's nothing between then anymore, i mean, have those people watched the same Season 4 that i did? Of course, its a Twisted and fucked up version of a relationship, but they do actualy care about each other. In the final scene she's pissed about everything, but thats It
Shiv in Season 3: I love you, but I don't love you anymore. *Tom betrays her in Season 3 finale and screw her with her brothers* Shiv: *Surpised Pikachu Face* Also, Shiv entire Season 4: WhY DiD YoU bETrAy Me, ToM!?
![tomgreg s3 scenepack (succession) [1080p]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/fk6z3KA0mi4/mqdefault.jpg)
![tomgreg s3 scenepack (succession) [1080p]](/img/tr.png)
![tomgreg s4 scenepack (succession) [1080p]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/u5uhNMY8ix4/mqdefault.jpg)
They are such a perfect toxic mess of a relationship...controlled chaos...I am obsessed with them.
Toxicity is incongruent with perfection
I ship them even though their relationship is insanely toxic. They had electric chemistry in S4 especially even when they’re insulting each other
Toxic relationships shouldn’t be shipped
I don’t care how toxic they were I will never stop shipping them
8:29 I think it’s so funny how the light is right on Tom’s shoes and Shiv had that smirk on her face.
The shoes were bothering her for so long😂😂
Matthew Macfadyen, such a wonderful actor, really well deserved Emmy 💘
In his attempts to end his concerns for money and get access to "nice" things, Tom Wambsgans put up with a lot from Shiv Roy. He knew had a brawler when he walked in on Shiv and Roman fighting in Season 1 and it was obvious she could hold her own. Shiv made every attempt to get him to walkout on their marriage but he hung in there. Actually, he got to know Shiv better than she knew herself. In the end, Tom knew how she going to vote. In the end, she would always be a Roy, but she is carrying a Wambsgans. The king, Logan, is dead. A dynasty in the making has to have seed planted somewhere ---- Roy-Wambsgans. Does he love her? I think so. Does Shiv love Tom? I think so, but the emotion scares her. Would she have behaved in the same manner to Nate had they married. I think so. She is who she is ---an emotionally scarred brawler who has been very angry the entire series. THIS WAS WELL DONE.!
Nate has a history of screwing Shiv over when the going gets tough. He's very much a teacher's pet. He also isn't a killer, not willing to play the Roys' game - but he will save his own arse.
Tom takes Shiv with him, cause that is what all he wanted from their relationship: her support, to make sure that she was in his corner. When not even offering to go to jail settled that, he knew he had to betray her to get her respect, which he eventually did.
Upfront, it seems like Nate and Shiv are a better match but no way is she gonna learn from her mistakes or navigate her family's business if she didn't have a mature perspective of Tom. In some ways, Tom and Shiv mirror each other's insecurity and equally are dependent on each other.
@@morrisoniiceI don’t think Nate would ever be a good match for Shiv
Shiv would be easily controlled and manipulated for a man above her station. She specifically dbed down in order to impose her will and avenge years of her father’s torment.
@@yungyacht Once Logan died Tom, who only had his lifestyle to lose, found his voice. He found that he could verbally handle Siobhan. He knew that she was unhappy with her blood family, so he let her know that their marriage was hers to lose.
It’s so funny looking at Shiv’s attitude throughout the series only to witness where she ended up.
You notice that ever since her dad died, she becomes more confused, clueless and have no direction even has no idea what to do with Tom anymore?
Because usually, she's always feeling powerful as her dad was still there even when she and her dad didn't get along, she will stay confident.
@@margarethmichelina5146it was like Logan gave her some kind of confidence
Besides in season 4 she was not mentally stable because of the marriage problems plus her pregnancy plus Logan’s death and her brothers so she was like alone all the time even worse after Logan’s death she always had to watch her back
That’s my opinion
Thank you for this ❤
Wow, he is such a wonderful actor.
so is she??
@@AR-kh6rrOF COURSE, they both are wonderful
What's so wonderful about their relationship is that Shiv thought she was holding all the cards in this relationship theoughout the seasons. She got a little bit of a clue of how masterful Tom was at the end of the second season. But her flaw was and will always be is that she always undersestimated tom. He's miles ahead of her at every turn. Excellent show
how did tom not take the hint at “rock his grandkids to sleep” 😂
Sorry, but I would have missed it too. Siobhan can be so cutting, perhaps Tom thought that she forgot about Kendall's two kids. Or, Tom thought with Logan's attitude toward Kendall's kids, grandchildren were not that important to Logan.
@8:27 😂😂😂😂 I love them😂
The download link doesn't work anymore :(
Their last phone call is missing.
Tom agrees to amicable divorce (Czecoslovakia->Velvet Divorce). She doesn't respond.
But offers Tom a "real relationship" at a time when she doesn't know that Tom wil be CEO.
Tom replies that he "doesn't know" he's still hurt by their balcony scene and he mustn't relly want to have her as his superior .
In the car, why does Shiv "congratulate" Tom when they both know Shiv's vote made him CEO ?
And why is Tom pretending to be modest (Oh no no) when he should be thanking her instead, right ?🤔😊
I think Tom tells Shiv "Oh, No No" because he knew that she has now divorced herself from her brothers. She was already, as her brothers were, estranged from their Mother. I think that Tom, always ahead of Shiv, realizes that it is going to be he and his family that will take care of the baby that he begged her for and her. The Roys were a business entity, which Tom could really see being an outsider.
@@annkey4091 I agree with the "divorce" between Shiv and Ken even she had doubts from the beginning (s1-s2) about his abilities to lead Waystar.
When you "push" someone, you don't "congatulates" them and normally the person thaks you.
Shiv changed her mindset about Tom after he showed "rebelliousness" and "independence" by betraying her.
They kept their wedding rings all the season 4. Except Tom who doesn't have it at the start of e1 but has it at the end of it. And they stayed connected all the season despite their marital estrangement.
She showed jealousy towards Tom"s real or supposed conquests.
She didn't have an abortion even though she thought about it.
It was she "the girl inside Waystar" who saved "Tom of Siobban" at the helm of ATN by establishing the Kill list for Matsson.
They publicy play Bitey. Shiv : TOM WAMBSGANS FINALLY MADE ME FEEL SOMETHING !.
At their last phone call Tom agrees to an amicable divorce (Czecoslovakia->Velvet Divorce). She'll not follow up this proposal.
Tom : IT WOULD BE CONVENIENT BECAUSE YOU WOULD BE MARRIED TO YOUR HUSBAND ! and YOU'VE FALLEN IN LOVE FINALLY !.
She asks him for a "real relationship" at a time when she doesn't know that Tom wil be CEO.
In the end, Shiv returns to their original plan which was support him to become CEO, but by knowing and accepting each other better.
I think she's congatulating him because he won their marital "fight" and everything he wanted from the beginning : CEO + SHIV + MONEY + CHILD.
Hence Tom's false modesty (whilehe'sinternallyjubilant), and his respect for her who she's on the verge of tears because she's affected by everything that was happened in recent days.
Jesse Armstrong spoke about Non-Victory and Non-Defeat about Shiv.
End of SCRIPT BOOK for Shiv and Tom in the car :
An accomodation, an equilibrium that could last with a certain stabilty, proxy wars and detentes for many years to come..nothing needy from either side.
A queen and a prince.
Two bombs being transported with great care.
Podcast HBO SUCCESSION "With open eyes" Part II with Mark Mylod (who directed 16 episodes) on UA-cam
@@corinne6011 Nicely written and done much better than I ever could. I always felt that if Shiv ever became CEO of Waystar|RoyCo, that Tom had to be there for the heavy lifting. Kendall and Roman would have tried to break her at every turn. I did not know that Tom would be the "successor", but I wondered about him starting in Season 1. When he had that meeting with Kendall at the diner in Season 3 and told him, to his face, that he was loser, and the way that he walked through the halls at his return, you could see killer in his eyes. If he won, he was bringing Shiv, kicking, cursing, screaming and crying. The guy loved her, in spite of everything.
@@annkey4091 Thank you, it's the writers of this show who have done a very good job ! I had to watch the last season several times, and à bit of others, to find a logic in it (just mine).
I think that Shiv asks Tom a real relationship and he replies "I DON'TKNOW", it's because he doesn't really want to have her as his superior while still being a couple. He would have experienced it as too much humiliation and inferiorization.
At Connor's, I believe that when he tells her "IT'S ME", he's emotionally blackmailing : if you want a real relationship, then vote for the sale so that I can become CEO. At the time, she rects badly because she's upset and sees that he's gaining influence overher.
With this finale, even he if only a "puppet" of Matsson, Tom is still freed from the tutelage of the Roys.
They have a sort of balance of power.
Shiv's fortune,which is lasting,gives her a geater power of influence than that of Tom whose status is less transitory.
But, he understood that he had to take leadership in their couple because Shiv will always be a "broken" and therefore an immature person.
This final arc Ken/Shiv/Tom resembles the finale of The Graduate with Ken as the ex-groom-to-be abandoned in the middle of the wedding ceremony and Shiv/Tom in place of the ex-bride-to-be who ran away with her lover who came to kidnap her.
The car scene also resembles the bus scene at the end of the film.
Thanks Man! I was going Crazy thinking that i was the only one having the same LINE of thoughts when people in the overall comments are saying that shiv and tom are over and there's nothing between then anymore, i mean, have those people watched the same Season 4 that i did? Of course, its a Twisted and fucked up version of a relationship, but they do actualy care about each other. In the final scene she's pissed about everything, but thats It
The D/L link no longer works. Would it be possible for you to reupload the file? Thank you.
PACK WATCH
В этом сериале между супругами очень много ругани, ругаются постоянно. Ужас! 🙈
Unpopular opinion: shiv married tom because shiv saw father figure she wanted in him.
Shiv in Season 3:
I love you, but I don't love you anymore.
*Tom betrays her in Season 3 finale and screw her with her brothers*
Shiv: *Surpised Pikachu Face*
Also, Shiv entire Season 4:
WhY DiD YoU bETrAy Me, ToM!?
Tomgreg >>>> Thomshiv