To clear it up: The side designation stickers are not wrong. On the Caddy the calipers mount towards the front of the car vs the Mustang which is towards the rear
Im curious what year range of the 13.2inch rotors for s197 to use with the ATS and is there difference in rockautos listings of with or without brembo(is that part relavent when selecting?) The 13.2s should clear up that pad overhang pretty much perfectly ?. Looking at doing the 13.2 inch front rotors with ats and doing the same rear gt500 rotor swap and keeping the rear calipers myself should be just roughly under perfect 70/30 according to the s&s bias chart
The 13.2 inch rotors is what I would use if I was doing the ATS on the front. From my research it's 2011-2014 GT non-brembo front rotors. I've heard those provide better fitment than the 03-04 Cobra front rotors.
Mainly autocross or similar style events, but I need the braking performance. This may be overkill, but won't know until I try. I know the GT brakes are not enough for me. I love the Cobra's though.
@@RinerAutomotive I run the cobra caliper& rotor with carbon ceramic pads; works for me. I also like the fact that I could stay with the rim size that I already had several sets of. I would have liked to have seen your take on actually using the ATS calipers, though. That XTS setup is truly massive.
Ive used the s&s kit for the ats calipers and experienced brake bias. I used ford taurus rear calipers to compensate. Those xts calipers are massive! Definitely looks good
Cool upgrade, super overkill for any light duty track/daily. The serviceability kinda sucks on those. I can't do quick pad changes, and the unsprung weight is massive. I think the ATS would be better with the 13.2 rotor. It facilitates almost everything else. The brake bias would also be perfect. Now, don't take my opinion too seriously. Im talking to these who don't do enough track, and daily their mustangs. I have made my own kits. The best ones were 4 piston willwoods on a 13" cobra rotor. I wanted inexpensive rotor replacements. Took some work, tho as the caliper used was the one with ears.
I completely agree. The ATS with the 13.2 rotor was my original intention and I may switch to in the future. The XTS combo works great though and I have no complaints other than the weight.
@RinerAutomotive Yeah, I follow you on Instagram. You definitely are better off with the 14", I would switch to the other corvette caliper for ease of service. I'm probably going to play with some s550/s650 calipers, my spindles are already modified to use a bracket.
@@RinerAutomotive Thank you for your response. I really appreciate that you refer to using a spacer. Is that the spacer that people use on a hub or with that spacer Sit and back of the rotor. I want to thank you for all your help with this build.And can you reference a spacer for me
@@cme3172 missed this reply, my bad. There is a thin spacer that goes on between the hub and rotor. This centers the rotor in the caliper which is non floating.
I think I've heard it will give good bias with the cobra rotors. I didn't look into them due to the reports I've heard of the piston failing. So it depends on the purpose of your car, street probably ok but racing it's recommended to avoid.
@@RinerAutomotive thanks! I was trying to decide between those and the ARP studs. I didn't think ARP's coating was worth twice the price, so this helps me decide.
Question but 1 did you have to modify the caliper to get the bushings in like the ats And also what break pads do you have to use for the xts calipers?
My suspension is a little different so the Cobra brake lines didn't work but they might work with a strut car. Check out my master cylinder video as I go over my brake line set up. Banjo bolt is 10mm x 1.0
Mine are custom due to my suspension design. The cobras lines I had connected to the Cadillac calipers just fine. But the banjo bolt I bought was a M10
20" wheels will have plenty of clearance on barrel, but it depends on the spokes if it will clear the Caliper face. That's where most people have issue I think.
I went Max Motor Sport just bought kit thru much cheaper supplier with xp10 F & xp 8 R. They need to be heated up. Might go to 12 & 10's needing even more heat... My front 13" rotors are pricy but dispel very heat effectively. Got much better brake duct lines added too. Rears I just got better slotted rotors. ABS is turned off. Brake balance seemed fine f to r but didn't test extensively like heavy high speed braking into tighter corners. Would love high-end BMW upgrade ABS kit $$$. Car is STILL in Shop. I am NOT happy!!! Haltech ECU with auto blip screwing up the shop to get car on dyno??? Hope you have another great yr!
Bummer it's still in the shop. I run much cooler brake pads (AX6) but not a road course car. That seems like a pretty good setup though. Do you think you are over cooling since needing to go to higher heat pads?
@@RinerAutomotive Running Hoosier R7's might call for it especially for high speed braking going straight and then possibly trail brake modulation. Typically over bake fronts than over cool that's with Goodyear 3R's on zl1 1le. 99 svt was running poor IMO track tires nitto 275's & 315's 200 tw
After watching this video i started doing some research myself and these calipers look almost identical to the CT6 and Corvette calipers with the advantage that the ct6 and vette calipers you can access the pads from the top rather than removing the caliper.. Would you know if these other 2 style calipers have the same mounting dimensions/measurements as the xts? tia for any info. Btw, thanx to your vid I will be doing this upgrade to my foxbody
I'm not sure how similar those are. I think I have heard of people fitting Vette calipers. There is bolt pattern and also rotor alignment that need to fall into place.
Well, I went ahead and did the dirty work for you.. I just bought both sets 😂 and yes, both calipers xts and ct6 are in fact the same exact calipers with the only difference being the big gap up top to replace the pads without removing the caliper 🤙🏻
Stock brakes on a GT were good for about 2 hard stops on a track. Cobra brakes were much better, but still too small for hard track use. I’m moving up to the 14” GT500 set up.
@@RinerAutomotive Thank you for the info. I’m building a 66 restomod and I was going to run almost the same setup as this but with a 19x9.5 with a 285/35r19 because I didn’t think the 18 would clear.
To clear it up:
The side designation stickers are not wrong. On the Caddy the calipers mount towards the front of the car vs the Mustang which is towards the rear
To think the mk1 vws I’ve driven have wheels the same diameter as these brakes is insane
Haha, I have a MK1 rabbit and can confirm it has smaller 13" wheels
Im curious what year range of the 13.2inch rotors for s197 to use with the ATS and is there difference in rockautos listings of with or without brembo(is that part relavent when selecting?) The 13.2s should clear up that pad overhang pretty much perfectly ?. Looking at doing the 13.2 inch front rotors with ats and doing the same rear gt500 rotor swap and keeping the rear calipers myself should be just roughly under perfect 70/30 according to the s&s bias chart
The 13.2 inch rotors is what I would use if I was doing the ATS on the front. From my research it's 2011-2014 GT non-brembo front rotors. I've heard those provide better fitment than the 03-04 Cobra front rotors.
didnt show sny install what so ever
Are you planning to do some track days? Id actually rather move down to the 99+ gt brakes to save the weight for autox only.
Mainly autocross or similar style events, but I need the braking performance. This may be overkill, but won't know until I try. I know the GT brakes are not enough for me. I love the Cobra's though.
@@RinerAutomotive I run the cobra caliper& rotor with carbon ceramic pads; works for me. I also like the fact that I could stay with the rim size that I already had several sets of. I would have liked to have seen your take on actually using the ATS calipers, though. That XTS setup is truly massive.
It is huge. I'll see how the car feels. I have the ATS that could be swapped on. Although the S197 rotors would be a better fit for those.
The xts has the calipers on the leading side of the rotor, so once you put them on the trailing side like you have them the bleeders are upside down.
Ohhh, I didn't realize that. Thanks
Ive used the s&s kit for the ats calipers and experienced brake bias. I used ford taurus rear calipers to compensate. Those xts calipers are massive! Definitely looks good
Next video I'll discuss what I'm doing in the rear to fix the bias. Hint it's not Taurus calipers.
Cool upgrade, super overkill for any light duty track/daily. The serviceability kinda sucks on those. I can't do quick pad changes, and the unsprung weight is massive. I think the ATS would be better with the 13.2 rotor. It facilitates almost everything else. The brake bias would also be perfect. Now, don't take my opinion too seriously. Im talking to these who don't do enough track, and daily their mustangs. I have made my own kits. The best ones were 4 piston willwoods on a 13" cobra rotor. I wanted inexpensive rotor replacements. Took some work, tho as the caliper used was the one with ears.
I completely agree. The ATS with the 13.2 rotor was my original intention and I may switch to in the future. The XTS combo works great though and I have no complaints other than the weight.
@RinerAutomotive Yeah, I follow you on Instagram. You definitely are better off with the 14", I would switch to the other corvette caliper for ease of service. I'm probably going to play with some s550/s650 calipers, my spindles are already modified to use a bracket.
Any chance you could let me know how far out the caliper is from the rotor surface? Trying to figure out if they would clear my spokes
From rotor face where the wheel would mount to outside of caliper is 1-5/8". I'll post a picture to my Instagram later to show it as well
Next question is what brake pads are you using for this setup?
I ran the stock pads for a bit and recently changed to the carbotech autocross pads.
Very cool! How does total piston area compare between the ATS and XTS?
From research the pistons are the same size for ATS and XTS. Just the rotor size is different so larger moment arm with the XTS
What size space did you use behind the rotor
S&S Engineering LLC has all the spacers listed based on which caliper and rotor your using
hmmm... I might have to do this on my foxboby
Would look good on the drift fox
Where do I purchase the hardware kit at
If you buy the kit from S&S it comes with hardware. Or you can get it from any hardware store. Recommend 10.9 grade
I've searched all over Facebook for S&S engineering and cannot find them. Do you have a link?
They now have their own website as well S&S Engineering LLC.
www.ssengineeringllc.com/
@@RinerAutomotive Thank you for your response. I really appreciate that you refer to using a spacer. Is that the spacer that people use on a hub or with that spacer Sit and back of the rotor. I want to thank you for all your help with this build.And can you reference a spacer for me
@@cme3172 missed this reply, my bad. There is a thin spacer that goes on between the hub and rotor. This centers the rotor in the caliper which is non floating.
i plan on doing this swap after i get wheels but ive heard that it makes the car stop worse by throwing off your F-R bias or something
As I said at the end of the video I will be changing the rear brakes to match the fronts. Hopefully at least.
@@RinerAutomotive i gotcha, i was kinda skipping thru as i didn’t have much time
No worries. Next video will be rear brakes
Would a Taurus caliper be better on the rear to avoid front and rear bias@@RinerAutomotive
I think I've heard it will give good bias with the cobra rotors. I didn't look into them due to the reports I've heard of the piston failing. So it depends on the purpose of your car, street probably ok but racing it's recommended to avoid.
Would you mind sharing what wheel studs and lugs you are using?
Pretty sure they are Moroso 3" studs. The lug nuts have to be the small tuner style for my wheels and I found open end ones on Amazon
@@RinerAutomotive thanks! I was trying to decide between those and the ARP studs. I didn't think ARP's coating was worth twice the price, so this helps me decide.
Question but 1 did you have to modify the caliper to get the bushings in like the ats And also what break pads do you have to use for the xts calipers?
Yes same die grinding has to be done on the XTS as the ATS, that is in the video. The XTS uses the same pads as ATS and many other brembo calipers.
Ok I just ordered a bunch of my stuff another quick question but what kind of break lines did you use? Or do you know the size I need
My suspension is a little different so the Cobra brake lines didn't work but they might work with a strut car. Check out my master cylinder video as I go over my brake line set up. Banjo bolt is 10mm x 1.0
What brake lines are you running I can't find the correct brake lines
Mine are custom due to my suspension design. The cobras lines I had connected to the Cadillac calipers just fine. But the banjo bolt I bought was a M10
@@RinerAutomotive what size 1.0 or 1.25 banjo bolt
M10x1.0
Will this work if you have 20inch tires on new edge just curious
20" wheels will have plenty of clearance on barrel, but it depends on the spokes if it will clear the Caliper face. That's where most people have issue I think.
I went Max Motor Sport just bought kit thru much cheaper supplier with xp10 F & xp 8 R. They need to be heated up. Might go to 12 & 10's needing even more heat... My front 13" rotors are pricy but dispel very heat effectively. Got much better brake duct lines added too. Rears I just got better slotted rotors. ABS is turned off. Brake balance seemed fine f to r but didn't test extensively like heavy high speed braking into tighter corners. Would love high-end BMW upgrade ABS kit $$$. Car is STILL in Shop. I am NOT happy!!! Haltech ECU with auto blip screwing up the shop to get car on dyno??? Hope you have another great yr!
Bummer it's still in the shop. I run much cooler brake pads (AX6) but not a road course car. That seems like a pretty good setup though. Do you think you are over cooling since needing to go to higher heat pads?
@@RinerAutomotive Running Hoosier R7's might call for it especially for high speed braking going straight and then possibly trail brake modulation. Typically over bake fronts than over cool that's with Goodyear 3R's on zl1 1le. 99 svt was running poor IMO track tires nitto 275's & 315's 200 tw
After watching this video i started doing some research myself and these calipers look almost identical to the CT6 and Corvette calipers with the advantage that the ct6 and vette calipers you can access the pads from the top rather than removing the caliper.. Would you know if these other 2 style calipers have the same mounting dimensions/measurements as the xts? tia for any info. Btw, thanx to your vid I will be doing this upgrade to my foxbody
I'm not sure how similar those are. I think I have heard of people fitting Vette calipers. There is bolt pattern and also rotor alignment that need to fall into place.
Well, I went ahead and did the dirty work for you.. I just bought both sets 😂 and yes, both calipers xts and ct6 are in fact the same exact calipers with the only difference being the big gap up top to replace the pads without removing the caliper 🤙🏻
Oh that's awesome. I was disappointed that the pads couldn't be removed through the top of the Cadillac calipers.
@@Backyard__built can you share the part # for the ct6 & can you run the same 14" rotor.......thanks in advance!
@@Backyard__builtdang bro you serious? Hero 🫡
Will that. Break setup fit with 19x8.5
Diameter wise yes. Not sure about the spokes on your wheel. But most likely.
If you could lock up your old brakes, then absolutely no more performance has been gained, only massive unspung weight
Not after ABS was installed. Yes there is more unsprung weight but this should decrease stopping distance when matched with a good ABS system
Stock brakes on a GT were good for about 2 hard stops on a track. Cobra brakes were much better, but still too small for hard track use.
I’m moving up to the 14” GT500 set up.
where did you get the spacer for behind the rotor?
S&S supplies it in their kit. Alternatively it's easy to draw up and get cut
What wheel/tire combo is this and specs on the wheel please.
I run 18x10.5 et 12 wheel with a 295/30R18 Bridgestone RE71RS
@@RinerAutomotive Thank you for the info. I’m building a 66 restomod and I was going to run almost the same setup as this but with a 19x9.5 with a 285/35r19 because I didn’t think the 18 would clear.
It's tight and might depend on the wheels but I think most 18s should clear the XTS.
Do you run a proportion valve?
Yes I do