Since some people have asked in different places. Do I think Hbox will ever drop a set to Peach, I personally don't think so, at least not if we talk Bo5. With that said I think it's possible it happens, but when you start talking if something will even happen once those type of MUs are not worth it at the highest level of play. If I played Peach for my whole career vs Hbox I feel fairly certain I would take a set eventually but if you wanna be the best winning one set vs a player of Hbox's skill wont cut it, not even close. I think I had a higher chance losing vs ICs in a Bo5 and even if that ever did happen I also think that MU is not "worth it" if you wanna be the best in the world. Of course things can change drastically but in the Peach/Puff MU I personally don't think it will ever happen. Anyway, hope you all enjoyed the video =) What Melee content would you guys wanna see me do in the future?
I would really like to see you cover puff’s matchup chart and your opinion on it. A lot of characters get dismantled when they are able to be reliably edge guarded, yet reliably edge guarding puff is a bit much to ask. Do you think there are any Even/Winning match ups against her, and what’s your score on the Fox/Puff match up?
Also not really solely Melee related but, what’s your view on many of the prime melee personalities slowly shifting their content focus to Ultimate. Is it healthy for the scene, and what impact do you reckon it will have on optimisation while playing both games?
Pretty sure Bowser beats Peach with his tie her up and move her to another castle move. The only way Peach can win the match up is Mario and Peach 2v1.
It's pretty intersting seeing the contrast between Peach's matchup chart in Melee in comparison to Ultimate. In Melee, she beats most of the mid and low tiers, yet has issues with the top/high tier characters. In Ultimate, Peach tends to do well against most top/high teir characters, but struggles with random mid and low tiers.
idk if I agree with that, it might just be peach's not knowing the matchup as most players don't know the random mid/low tier matchups, some are not uncommon to know tho (lots of people know zelda's at least somewhat well for instance). Obviously some are going to beat because of the balance, but idk if it's going to be more than like 5 characters beating.
Puff gets buffed in Ult, then we get Melee Armada. Interesting. Ok so we're asking for all the Puff buffs now I guess. Maybe then he will go to Melee tournaments again.
So happy I finally watched it. You're so insightful, and even with you not going super in depth into all the matchups I feel like I've learned a lot that I want to incorporate into my Peach play. Thank you and keep up the great work Armada BOAT!
Falco recovering high is very good against peach, but something ive found that works really well is fullhop to side plat -> double jump land on side plat -> instant fullhop -> double jump land on top platform. its much faster than full hop double jump to top platform, and it covers Falcon fastfalling through the platforms as well.
Jiggs has best recovery easy, but Peach does have debatably second best and lives forever as well. Fun coincidence that Peach loses so hard to the only character with better recovery.
Llod innovated the match up a bunch for sure. He takes a really different approach to the MU, playing super grounded and safe and just taking every trade. The big thing tho IMO, is hyper float. It gives peach so much more effective range on her aerials and really lets her scrap better. I would love to see armada come back with all the modern peach tech, he could do some seriously nasty things.
@@lapplandkun9273 TBH something else would probably just be broken, or they'd just make the game less fun, shame when a game peaks in it's second incarnation!
@Morph Ball Marth is debatable, I can see the argument for Marth beating Puff if certain things get optimized, though I'm skeptical. As for falcon though...wizzy's amazing at the matchup but if you think his performance proves it's in falcon's favour you probably don't know what you're talking about. Falcon-puff is definitely doable if you're patient enough-falcon is one of the few characters with actual kill confirms on Puff, and has the speed to contest Puff camping better than most, but other than that almost everything is in Puff's favour. The difference in edgeguarding ability alone is enough to negate whatever advantages Falcon has, and while top-platform camping is strong if you don't know how to deal with it, Puff's defensive options are even stronger (esp on dreamland). I suspect wizzrobe will start losing to hbox a lot more once hbox grinds out the matchup (something he hasn't really had to do in the past, as wizzy is prob the first falcon to be truly great at the matchup)
@Morph Ball Wizzrobe has studied and optimized the Falcon-Puff matchup in extreme depth to get to where he is today. Hungrybox, on the other hand, pretty much only practices Fox, on account of him never having to deal with a Falcon who understands the matchup until recently. Despite that, the two go pretty much even with each other. Is that what you'd expect from an "even" matchup? I agree that Falco-Puff is vastly underdeveloped, but it's mainly just because Mango pretty much always switches to Fox for it and PP is gone. It's probably doable for Falco, but on what basis do you think it's even, let alone "probably" in Falco's favour? Falco is basically just Fox but without any of the things that make Fox good in the matchup (great horizontal mobility, speed and confirms like uthrow-air). Meanwhile Puff has all her advantages vs Fox intact (uthrow-rest, punish game in general) and edgeguards Falco pretty much for free. Saying Marth "just straight up wins by a lot" is equally ludicrous. Again, on what basis? Zain is insane at the matchup, doing pivot stuff that even m2k never thought anyone could get consistent, yet he still struggles. What exactly are these huge optimizations you think Zain should be making that would make it vastly in his favour? How does a character with neither a projectile nor Falcon's movement deal with circle camping on DL? How does a character who's main method of killing is through edgeguards beat a character who's main strength is being impossible to edgeguard "by a lot"? I think it's _possible_ the matchup could end up slightly in Marth's favour if the meta develops in a certain direction, but being so certain about it in this meta is nuts
I've been trying to pick up melee recently and I've been wondering if there's a video like this but for Samus. I'm currently playing falcon, and am not currently looking for a secondary, but I've also heard that Falcon is garbage against spacies (specifically Falco), and I saw on a matchup chart that Samus goes even-ish with them. I think that matchup chart might be a little out-dated, so I was wondering what the modern opinion on the matchup is.
It’s not worth learning another character against spacies as falcon, these days he’s considered to lose very slightly against Fox and loses a little bit more against Falco.
weird to find another person who started today. I can wavedash to the right consistently but only after more than an hour of practice. the left side is another story.
@@averageenjoyer2605 I mean I played melee years ago for fun but I did take it serious like I am now. Also I know how to wave dash I'm just struggling with doing it over and over again back and fourth if you get what I'm saying.
@@averageenjoyer2605 for me I just getting use to doing a short hop the original way since in ultimate you can just press the jump and attack button together to do a short hop aerial. So I never did my shorts hops in that game by tapping the jump button quickly which is what I think is giving me hard time with wave dashing.
I think Puff and Fox ought to be switched. I'm not nearly as good as Armada but I've played some pretty good players and I think that Fox's punish game and speed (plus his ability to camp if he chooses) practically invalidates Peach if the Fox player is good enough. Against Puff Peach has to work really hard to play around back air but it's definately doable. With good turnip play and very meticulous/tricky spacing you can make it work. Peach doesn't get combos often but nair and upair kill decently early. You can also sometimes DI out of wall of pain combos from Puff and most Puffs will never even attempt to rest you. If you can make use of sub-floats they're incredibly useful in the matchup as well. Llod's online set vs Hbox is a great example.
Since some people have asked in different places.
Do I think Hbox will ever drop a set to Peach, I personally don't think so, at least not if we talk Bo5.
With that said I think it's possible it happens, but when you start talking if something will even happen once those type of MUs are not worth it at the highest level of play.
If I played Peach for my whole career vs Hbox I feel fairly certain I would take a set eventually but if you wanna be the best winning one set vs a player of Hbox's skill wont cut it, not even close.
I think I had a higher chance losing vs ICs in a Bo5 and even if that ever did happen I also think that MU is not "worth it" if you wanna be the best in the world.
Of course things can change drastically but in the Peach/Puff MU I personally don't think it will ever happen.
Anyway, hope you all enjoyed the video =)
What Melee content would you guys wanna see me do in the future?
I would really like to see you cover puff’s matchup chart and your opinion on it.
A lot of characters get dismantled when they are able to be reliably edge guarded, yet reliably edge guarding puff is a bit much to ask. Do you think there are any Even/Winning match ups against her, and what’s your score on the Fox/Puff match up?
Also not really solely Melee related but, what’s your view on many of the prime melee personalities slowly shifting their content focus to Ultimate. Is it healthy for the scene, and what impact do you reckon it will have on optimisation while playing both games?
Other Melee Matchup charts would be cool, for example one for Fox
Watching you destroy your friends in friendlies is always enjoyable to watch.
More friendlies videos with Jason or PPMD would be fun
You can feel the despair in his voice when he talks about the puff MU.
But there is tech against Puff: ua-cam.com/video/jMzvhnUqYic/v-deo.html
I love how Armada can be serious and funny at the same time when it comes to Jigglypuff MU for Peach.
Pretty sure Bowser beats Peach with his tie her up and move her to another castle move. The only way Peach can win the match up is Mario and Peach 2v1.
nah, its just that peach sandbags whenever bowser kidnaps her. if peach didnt sandbag, no more mario games
Peach playing hard to get with Mario
there aint no better feeling than seeing some armada melee content in my notification box :)
I’ve always found it interesting how Peach can be on opposite ends of two of the most dominant matchups from the good characters (Puff and Icies)
When you play a consistent character, that kind of thing tends to happen.
It's pretty intersting seeing the contrast between Peach's matchup chart in Melee in comparison to Ultimate. In Melee, she beats most of the mid and low tiers, yet has issues with the top/high tier characters. In Ultimate, Peach tends to do well against most top/high teir characters, but struggles with random mid and low tiers.
idk if I agree with that, it might just be peach's not knowing the matchup as most players don't know the random mid/low tier matchups, some are not uncommon to know tho (lots of people know zelda's at least somewhat well for instance).
Obviously some are going to beat because of the balance, but idk if it's going to be more than like 5 characters beating.
@@tomrod1949 ah ok, makes sense then.
Among the Top tiers, Peach only loses to Lucina, Shulk, Olimar, and Joker
@@axiomaxiom1899 that's like half the top tiers, and some of those are more likely high tier imo
@@axiomaxiom1899 Mkleo said peach might beat joker slightly or evenish on his joker mu chart
Puff gets buffed in Ult, then we get Melee Armada. Interesting.
Ok so we're asking for all the Puff buffs now I guess. Maybe then he will go to Melee tournaments again.
ik this is a joke but he'd prolly stream melee content if he losy intetest in ultimate
There’s so much more melee to play. More armada melee content
So happy I finally watched it. You're so insightful, and even with you not going super in depth into all the matchups I feel like I've learned a lot that I want to incorporate into my Peach play. Thank you and keep up the great work
Armada BOAT!
Trans rights
@@Verac1ty ????
@@SkeletonSSBM It's their profile picture
@@Verac1ty oh
i love this peak into armadas though on the melee meta through the lens of his main
Falco recovering high is very good against peach, but something ive found that works really well is fullhop to side plat -> double jump land on side plat -> instant fullhop -> double jump land on top platform. its much faster than full hop double jump to top platform, and it covers Falcon fastfalling through the platforms as well.
In depth peach videos would be sick but anything melee is dope
A melee video? Interesting.
42:15 made me spew water out of my nose
46:55 Funniest part of the whole video.
Play melee with good ssbu players like mkleo, samsora, tweek, cosmos, etc. Would be funny how you bully them lol. Anyway nice vid man
honestly watching armada awaken good ult players would be a fuckin treat
Or he could play ult and get bullied lmao. Smash players smh
50:03 anyone besides Armada saying that would've sounded arrogant but Armada is so good that its probably actually straight facts
Love him or hate him, he’s spittin facts.
End the chart at 20min proceed to rant on how bad puff demolish peach, yep thats our boy
You're watching:
A tier list if Prach was removed from the game
lol but Falco is better than Falcon
Armada is a Chad
coming back here after Polish beat Hbox twice
this is still maybe my favorite tier list though
Bowser has several areas in melee where he is the best. He has the best air dodge, among other things.
Jiggs has best recovery easy, but Peach does have debatably second best and lives forever as well. Fun coincidence that Peach loses so hard to the only character with better recovery.
great video, been wanting to see this = )
Peach Puff is Stinky-100
Armada, this is enough talking.
We need you back in the melee scene. Come show Zain and co. Who the real boss is.
PPPPLEEEEEEAAAASSSSEEEEE
Armada melee pog!
Ik you have talked about matchups as fox a few times on stream but you should make a fox MU chart next! Great video
I think that llod brought the peach puff mu to 60/40 ! Great improvement!
Llod innovated the match up a bunch for sure. He takes a really different approach to the MU, playing super grounded and safe and just taking every trade. The big thing tho IMO, is hyper float. It gives peach so much more effective range on her aerials and really lets her scrap better. I would love to see armada come back with all the modern peach tech, he could do some seriously nasty things.
I want someone to make a Jigglypuff piñata for Armada
Armada comes so alive when talking about puff
Next can you make the fox match up chart
Rofl ppl really think peach puff is only 40-60
I think it was MLG 2013 that you came close to losing to Pikachu
Imagine if Sakurai suddenly made Melee balance patches xD
the game would be much better
@@lapplandkun9273 TBH something else would probably just be broken, or they'd just make the game less fun, shame when a game peaks in it's second incarnation!
Conclusion: she does good against the bottom tiers and bad against the top tiers lol
Llod has won a set over hungrybox 3-1
Great video, you should do more matchup videos like this for other characters!
Nah dude, he knows this much because he mained peach, he can’t really give this sort of advice for say falco for example...
@@lightbrand_ He played fox too, occasionally
natnew32 yes but only for specific players and matchups
@@lightbrand_ Idk i'd still love to hear his opinion on fox matchups. He is technically one of the best Fox players in the world
I'm curious what you think Puff's losing match-ups are. Obviously you thought about it quite a bit when you were experimenting with secondaries.
probably none
basically just fox imo
@Morph Ball Marth is debatable, I can see the argument for Marth beating Puff if certain things get optimized, though I'm skeptical.
As for falcon though...wizzy's amazing at the matchup but if you think his performance proves it's in falcon's favour you probably don't know what you're talking about. Falcon-puff is definitely doable if you're patient enough-falcon is one of the few characters with actual kill confirms on Puff, and has the speed to contest Puff camping better than most, but other than that almost everything is in Puff's favour. The difference in edgeguarding ability alone is enough to negate whatever advantages Falcon has, and while top-platform camping is strong if you don't know how to deal with it, Puff's defensive options are even stronger (esp on dreamland).
I suspect wizzrobe will start losing to hbox a lot more once hbox grinds out the matchup (something he hasn't really had to do in the past, as wizzy is prob the first falcon to be truly great at the matchup)
Oh and definitely not Falco lmao
@Morph Ball Wizzrobe has studied and optimized the Falcon-Puff matchup in extreme depth to get to where he is today. Hungrybox, on the other hand, pretty much only practices Fox, on account of him never having to deal with a Falcon who understands the matchup until recently. Despite that, the two go pretty much even with each other. Is that what you'd expect from an "even" matchup?
I agree that Falco-Puff is vastly underdeveloped, but it's mainly just because Mango pretty much always switches to Fox for it and PP is gone. It's probably doable for Falco, but on what basis do you think it's even, let alone "probably" in Falco's favour? Falco is basically just Fox but without any of the things that make Fox good in the matchup (great horizontal mobility, speed and confirms like uthrow-air). Meanwhile Puff has all her advantages vs Fox intact (uthrow-rest, punish game in general) and edgeguards Falco pretty much for free.
Saying Marth "just straight up wins by a lot" is equally ludicrous. Again, on what basis? Zain is insane at the matchup, doing pivot stuff that even m2k never thought anyone could get consistent, yet he still struggles. What exactly are these huge optimizations you think Zain should be making that would make it vastly in his favour? How does a character with neither a projectile nor Falcon's movement deal with circle camping on DL? How does a character who's main method of killing is through edgeguards beat a character who's main strength is being impossible to edgeguard "by a lot"? I think it's _possible_ the matchup could end up slightly in Marth's favour if the meta develops in a certain direction, but being so certain about it in this meta is nuts
What's melee
the goat
sick
holy shit that’s a lot of midrolls
I think puff was put a tier too low
I've been trying to pick up melee recently and I've been wondering if there's a video like this but for Samus. I'm currently playing falcon, and am not currently looking for a secondary, but I've also heard that Falcon is garbage against spacies (specifically Falco), and I saw on a matchup chart that Samus goes even-ish with them. I think that matchup chart might be a little out-dated, so I was wondering what the modern opinion on the matchup is.
It’s not worth learning another character against spacies as falcon, these days he’s considered to lose very slightly against Fox and loses a little bit more against Falco.
Step it up, Finland.
I'm surprised sheik wins tbh, would have assumed it was even.
I starting playing Melee and man I think I'm starting to like it more than Ultimate. Although I'm having a hard time trying to wave dash repeatedly.
weird to find another person who started today. I can wavedash to the right consistently but only after more than an hour of practice. the left side is another story.
@@averageenjoyer2605 I mean I played melee years ago for fun but I did take it serious like I am now. Also I know how to wave dash I'm just struggling with doing it over and over again back and fourth if you get what I'm saying.
@@4kcris293 yea I get that. I'll def struggle when i lab that. rn I'm mostly just working getting used to l cancelling so I havent reached that point
@@averageenjoyer2605 for me I just getting use to doing a short hop the original way since in ultimate you can just press the jump and attack button together to do a short hop aerial. So I never did my shorts hops in that game by tapping the jump button quickly which is what I think is giving me hard time with wave dashing.
Rex Dex good to see some new players coming to melee. Trust me, after a while of playing wave dashing will become effortless
Peach puff legit prolly just as bad as icies peach or worse but no one talks about it
Im tired of these ppl who try to counter the hbox hate by undermining how good puff is
is there a region lock on memory cards, or can any version of Melee be played on my European memory card?
Can we get a House MD tier list?
Are you gonna do fox?
Nice midrolls
Classic obligatory reddit destruction🔥
yeah the whole ass 801+ people that want melee content, ya'll are silly.
melee is sick
put some respect on melee's name
Woooooo
I think Puff and Fox ought to be switched. I'm not nearly as good as Armada but I've played some pretty good players and I think that Fox's punish game and speed (plus his ability to camp if he chooses) practically invalidates Peach if the Fox player is good enough. Against Puff Peach has to work really hard to play around back air but it's definately doable. With good turnip play and very meticulous/tricky spacing you can make it work. Peach doesn't get combos often but nair and upair kill decently early. You can also sometimes DI out of wall of pain combos from Puff and most Puffs will never even attempt to rest you. If you can make use of sub-floats they're incredibly useful in the matchup as well. Llod's online set vs Hbox is a great example.
What does this Ultimate player know about Melee?
I know right, He talks as if he use to be a top player.
I love Armada and his hate for puff. The goat!
listen to me armada, there is nobody more experienced in jiggly vs. peach than me... its 60-40 in peach favour :)
So peach loses to all the high/top tiers
lmao you have "watch house md" as a bookmark. never knew you were illegally streaming lul
Y u snitchin
9:05
yo
Anybody here after hungrybox's puff MU video?
Play melee at genesis
i really wish you had all the information and experience in ultimate like you do i melee so you can rek everyone 🤣
Llod
1
so tired of such negativity around hbox and puff :(
what was the negativity??
How does Peach lose to Marth? My guess is that if Peach lost to Marth you wouldn’t have beat M2K’s Marth at Super Smash Con.
How about m2k at summit 6? It's not like one set determines everything about a matchup.
I can't tell if this comment is supposed to be ironic with your picture
armada was the better player
comett itun Because he had the better character.
Kevin Trickey This comment makes no sense.
Melee is edad, let it go
Gay
edad lmao
☝️💀💀⚰️💀💀👆
Tiers in melee are usless, the fame only have like 6 viable characters and most of the players just use fox.
You're an ignorant fool the top 10 has 10 characters in it and only leffen mains fox at top level anymore
Super close-minded perspective of melee when the game's meta has been advanced way higher than any other game.
wow you use reddit no way!!
Hes just trolling lmao dont feed him.
@@redwarrior118 lolol