Melee Improvement Tier List

Поділитися
Вставка
  • Опубліковано 25 сер 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 144

  • @latissimusdomsi
    @latissimusdomsi 3 роки тому +185

    If there's anything Smash players like, it's tierlists

  • @silas4776
    @silas4776 3 роки тому +19

    i play ult but i absolutely love the way melee players look at improvement so i always turn to them for inspiration

  • @Danielsworlds
    @Danielsworlds 3 роки тому +25

    PP is special among top-level Smashers. If you have ever been to his dream he honestly loves to and puts in great effort to help guide and educate players. If you ask him a question he won't actually give you an answer.
    " hey I am a marked player struggling in this matchup what can I do" and he will tell you he will tell you to use this move more often to watch for spacing on this specific move to look out for this move and with punish that specifically.
    He truly cares and wants to educate and that is incredible

  • @FirePuff12
    @FirePuff12 3 роки тому +34

    Kodorin videos LETSGO

  • @meyers323
    @meyers323 3 роки тому +12

    Being in good shape and healthy is super underrated. I remember noticing Wizzrobe packed lunch to a major tournament, where all the regular tourney monsters usually eat fast food near the venue. That's a huge advantage.

  • @Cashmoneez
    @Cashmoneez 3 роки тому +19

    I know of KoDoRin but have never watched his content this is some great stuff

  • @pIayingwithmahwii
    @pIayingwithmahwii 3 роки тому +60

    Can you do a vid on how to analyze yourself? I do friendlies and solo practice, but I literally learn nothing from watching myself and trying to analyze.

    • @xXTKiNGzXSESEYSX
      @xXTKiNGzXSESEYSX 3 роки тому

      Grest idea

    • @KoDoRiN
      @KoDoRiN  3 роки тому +45

      I'll take note of it!

    • @stonerdugan
      @stonerdugan 3 роки тому

      Omg I think this so much please do this

    • @fullsend4976
      @fullsend4976 3 роки тому +7

      You need to be critical of why you put out a certain move, especially if you got punished for it and ask yourself, why did it get beat, or what could I have done in the situation differently, and how could I have prevent that from happening in the future and apply it to your training.

    • @GirlDotJpeg
      @GirlDotJpeg 3 роки тому

      SAME

  • @CheapShotFail
    @CheapShotFail 3 роки тому +8

    Your "trifecta" is a great way of adapting learning to melee. I'm a chess coach of over 10 years now, and the 3 components we use are solo practice (tactics, combinations, openings/endgames, etc.), coaching, and serious tournament play (although over the past year that has had to be substituted for serious competition, preferably with someone you know IRL). I'm sure that's similar for many other sports/competitive games and they have their own methodology that's incredibly similar too. Really good advice and cool to see someone who clearly knows about improvement talking on the subject!
    Keep up the great Marth play too, can't wait to see you keep taking some more big heads in bracket!

  • @somniad
    @somniad 18 днів тому

    I am in love with the weird but effective decision to give a highly multifaceted presentation on improvement in melee and basically replace powerpoint slides with tier list items

  • @matthewjared1
    @matthewjared1 3 роки тому +8

    The 2 hours spent scripting was time well spent in my book, great video!

  • @FlamingZelda3
    @FlamingZelda3 3 роки тому +12

    I think it's hilarious how oddly specific these melee tier lists are getting

  • @cudge
    @cudge 3 роки тому +9

    The entirety of the multi main section was just one big compliment to m2k lmao

  • @joed9514
    @joed9514 3 роки тому +6

    I have a healthy gamer coach too! He’s actually helped me a bit in understanding why I choke when I play in tournament so I’m glad other players are having good experiences

  • @w00j__
    @w00j__ 3 роки тому +3

    loved the tier list topic, the logo/symbol choices, and the level of detail and insight you went into each methodology.
    if you're open to yt comment suggestions, have your script on your monitor so it looks like you're relatively looking at your camera rather than looking down throughout the whole video.
    Also would have loved a little more concrete examples (i.e. bringing up how Armada had to train his YL and fox for years before bringing them to tournament in the main switching/multi-main sections)
    Overall loved this different take on melee tier lists, especially as a newer player. looking forward to more of this content!

    • @KoDoRiN
      @KoDoRiN  3 роки тому

      thanks for the constructive feedback :)

  • @pIayingwithmahwii
    @pIayingwithmahwii 3 роки тому +3

    This was all well explained, especially the part around 10:20 .

  • @TheChicken313
    @TheChicken313 3 роки тому +1

    Fantastic video. Love the part about goals, cause I always tell my friends this. Loving the game you play is priority #1!!!

  • @deep_cuts2019
    @deep_cuts2019 3 роки тому +2

    I'm all about improvement so I can't wait to watch this video

    • @pIayingwithmahwii
      @pIayingwithmahwii 3 роки тому

      how was it now that you've watched it? any closing remarks?

  • @Ostro87
    @Ostro87 3 роки тому +2

    Super great video, a lot of these points can also apply to fighting games in general. Keep it up 👍

  • @jackjoseph4436
    @jackjoseph4436 3 роки тому +1

    Such a good video. I didn’t realize how many things I was wasting time on and wondering why I wasn’t improving.

  • @spacepope20k
    @spacepope20k Рік тому

    as someone that coaches other games and used to compete directly as a player in esports, this is all mostly spot on. special shout out to you kodorin for having my all time favorite twitter john. was a 10/10 post. :]

  • @TheJulien2002
    @TheJulien2002 3 роки тому

    Very good video! I especially like the "Trifecta" advices, which seems like a key and self-explanatory concept

  • @TheAlex010
    @TheAlex010 Рік тому

    Must-have for anyone serious about improvement: Having a coach), the trifecta: solo practice (tech skill), analysis (see what you did wrong), friendlies (cycle), watching/reading guides, mindset training (mentality, choking, cognitive exercises), using tools (ikneedata, uncle punch, slippi analysis)
    Will probably help you improve: discussion groups (discord), entering tournaments, health (eating, sleeping, etc...),
    Might help you improve: unfocused practice session (unranked), only doing one or two of the trifecta, copying top players, learning obscure tech (multishines), having concrete goals (get PR)
    Unlikely to help you improve: Casual friendlies (items, hyrule temple, etc...) , dual maining/secondairies, switching mains,

  • @garrettpeterson3324
    @garrettpeterson3324 3 роки тому +5

    The UA-cam algorithm took too long to recommend this channel.

  • @lanexyz
    @lanexyz 2 роки тому +1

    “What does this Kreygasm represent?”

  • @ACrazyMonk
    @ACrazyMonk 3 роки тому +4

    Can’t wait to see watch this and learn from the improvement god himself
    Also incredibly devastating to hear we started attending tournaments at nearly the exact same time lmao love ya Kodorin-leroydankins

  • @cameronstoeppel7075
    @cameronstoeppel7075 3 роки тому

    this also helps with ultimate! Thank you for making this.

  • @MrGetownedLP
    @MrGetownedLP 10 місяців тому

    INSANELY GOOD VIDEO

  • @rkraccoons
    @rkraccoons 3 роки тому

    Excellent video

  • @yoyoflow09
    @yoyoflow09 3 роки тому

    damn this is a fire video, applies to many things outside of melee

  • @violetchan6402
    @violetchan6402 3 роки тому

    This video is REALLY good!
    I’ve realized just how much I’ve neglected analysis, and it’s because of my mindset making me see my mistakes in the moment, which isn’t that good for me to do.
    Also, I lowkey thought that the falcon knee represented “getting bodied” lmao.

  • @theorist
    @theorist 3 роки тому

    pretty good, only problem i had was with the "setting concrete goals" part. When I was on the come up in SoCal, I would frequently set other competitors as "goals" to beat. It started off small with beating the best in my little city, then beating the best in my county, and then slowly taking off sets from the socal pr players. I don't think settings goals like this is bad unless you have a weak mindset. But you should be working on that anyway. Other than that though, this is a great list on how to improve. I'm glad you mentioned the mango thing, the better you get, the more you realize "top players" aren't nearly playing the same game as us.

    • @KoDoRiN
      @KoDoRiN  3 роки тому +1

      setting goals is not necessarily a bad thing, as it can help with some motivators, but imo it should not be the main motivator since it's more of an extrinsic than an intrinsic motivation.

  • @loveage8327
    @loveage8327 3 роки тому

    Great stuff

  • @pIayingwithmahwii
    @pIayingwithmahwii 3 роки тому +1

    Glad to see you making videos. Preparing for the necessity of having a following when you reach god tier lol

  • @bloodredhoro68
    @bloodredhoro68 3 роки тому

    listening to the video and noticing a lot of things you said mirrored what i heard from Dr k. it makes so much sense now that i've learned you watch him too

  • @alphablitz6048
    @alphablitz6048 3 роки тому

    Banger vid

  • @jacobdawson9916
    @jacobdawson9916 3 роки тому

    great video idea.

  • @piocastellano8221
    @piocastellano8221 3 роки тому

    Thank you for this video!

  • @kkim5000
    @kkim5000 3 роки тому

    great stuff. as an ultimate player, this is all applicable to competitive ultimate as well.

  • @IckStuff
    @IckStuff 3 роки тому

    KoDoRin content pog
    subbed, great vid, keep posting :)

  • @razorman77
    @razorman77 3 роки тому

    Great video. You earned a new subscriber and fan!

  • @viceroi9332
    @viceroi9332 3 роки тому

    Damn this is great content. Subbed!

  • @simongotborg3866
    @simongotborg3866 2 роки тому

    I've been playing competitive Melee since late 2006 and I've improved more in the last 2 years than all the rest combined. The biggest difference was mentality, but not in the way most people talk about it. I heard so much about not choking in tournament. Not letting anger/frustration ruin your play. Learning from your mistakes instead of blaming the game. "Playing to learn" rather than "playing to win". Not getting hung up on certain match-up and play styles. All of that's good to know, but that wasn't my problem.
    No, my problem was that I felt like my life was hopeless and there was nothing I could do to improve anything (smash or otherwise). I put tons of hours into practice, not because I thought it would make me better, I just wanted to be able to say I had tried. Which is both true and false. I did put in a lot of effort and I made the best choices I could with my limited understanding, but I certainly wasn't paying attention and practicing efficiently. It's very hard to give something 100% of your energy and taking in all that's happening if you don't believe, deep down in your heart, that you effort makes a difference.
    The most tragic part about the whole thing is that I never worked on my mental issues because I didn't think that it would have helped.

  • @BitcoinBanana
    @BitcoinBanana 3 роки тому

    Absolute banger of a video

  • @LoveChaac
    @LoveChaac 3 роки тому +1

    Great Video!

  • @michaelyoung3054
    @michaelyoung3054 3 роки тому

    Somebody should make a tier list of tier lists...

  • @corbenmurphy1807
    @corbenmurphy1807 3 роки тому

    These apply to other video games like league, but to any skill in life. Great video 👍🏽

  • @kestij4189
    @kestij4189 3 роки тому

    Honestly this tier list is probably more important to your performance than literally any other tier list

  • @Avinkwep
    @Avinkwep 3 роки тому +1

    This video is important

  • @dirtball1011
    @dirtball1011 3 роки тому

    If only I cared enough to improve. I am rather quite happy becoming stagnant but goddamn for those that wish to improve or those who are upset that they are not improving this is a great guide

  • @pkthunder7008
    @pkthunder7008 3 роки тому

    Dr. K is a good recommendation for that category of self improvement.

  • @jimsface
    @jimsface 3 роки тому

    NICE. You’re so sick dude. Subbed

  • @UnfathomableIsSexy
    @UnfathomableIsSexy 2 роки тому

    damn kodorin is mad smart

  • @quavergamma4223
    @quavergamma4223 3 роки тому

    This is a great video and I honestly think you can expand this to Smash Ultimate (or even other fighting games in general) and the tips would remain pretty much the same. If you want to reach out to a bigger audience then maybe consider changing the title to “Smash improvement tier list” instead of Melee and edit the description, but that’s your call.

  • @Space_Lion
    @Space_Lion 3 роки тому

    Godlike vid idea

  • @derpderp1562
    @derpderp1562 3 роки тому +2

    I disagree with the placement of the goal setting, mostly because I just took a sport psychology class and a lot of the concepts apply to smash.
    If you really are aiming for the top, having a concrete goal such as pr or top in your region is absolutely necessary. It’s definitely more important to have a love for the game and be intrinsically motivated, but that shouldn’t put the goal setting process at a lower tier.
    Part of making the outcome goal effective is also making other goals that are smaller, and more in your control. Performance goals, like individual tournament records get a little closer, or performing a tech you practiced in a game.
    What’s incredibly helpful though is small process goals. Small mental or physical strategies that are fully in ones control. Practicing breathing, proper and positive self talk, understanding how you think about the game itself; these are goals that improve your improvement process, and many top athletes and coaches in physical sports use this goal framing strategy to map out an athletes “road to success,” so to speak. I think this will apply to video games as well, especially cognitively intensive ones such as melee.
    Finishing the video, I bet the healthy gamer coach would also help with the micro goals. Having that overarching goal is also an important ingredient in the goal mapping formula, and does need to be used responsibly to be effective. Since I don’t know the extent to which it’s mandatory at high level play, I’ll put it one or two tiers higher.

    • @KoDoRiN
      @KoDoRiN  3 роки тому +2

      I agree with your take. To clarify, the reason why it ranked low is because often it's smasher's ONLY source of motivation, which in my opinion makes it pretty bad. Thus, why it only might help you.

  • @sereza200
    @sereza200 3 роки тому

    good shit

  • @ssbmcrisp5486
    @ssbmcrisp5486 2 роки тому

    I genuinely think the fact that I haven’t been able to stick to a character for more than a year ever is the main reason I’m still so bad even though I’ve been playing since 2015. I don’t know why it’s so hard but I just can’t pick one character and I hate myself for it. I just need to make myself stick to one but I have so much trouble choosing.

  • @CARROTMOLD
    @CARROTMOLD 3 роки тому

    12:00 practicing doc up-b cancel

  • @AZNBeefcake
    @AZNBeefcake 3 роки тому

    This is timely for me

  • @coolpikachufan01
    @coolpikachufan01 3 роки тому

    Sweet video! I can definitely vouch for Healthy Gamer coaching - I started group coaching in September of last year and saw noticeable improvement in my day-to-day life and in my Melee mindset. It's well worth it! If anyone is on the fence, give it a shot

  • @Pleasantries
    @Pleasantries 3 роки тому +1

    you're sick

  • @ManWithFace
    @ManWithFace Рік тому

    23:01 where can i find this google doc of PPMD's posts?

  • @Back2Zack
    @Back2Zack 3 роки тому

    So I'm not nearly as interested in improving my melee as my Tennis, but the point about tournaments really hit me. I don't play enough stakes and so when i do i struggle even bringing my B game. Going to try to add in more competition.

  • @Acryte
    @Acryte 3 роки тому

    KoDoRiN iS gReAt! :O

  • @togumicai
    @togumicai 3 роки тому +2

    this has a lot more credibility in my eyes because you mentioned healthygamer LOL

  • @kaidenm.5931
    @kaidenm.5931 3 роки тому

    11:47 the westballz

  • @dieg0shine789
    @dieg0shine789 3 роки тому

    Great vid :)

  • @sammurray1943
    @sammurray1943 3 роки тому

    unranked helps me get comfortable with playing, sometimes i train so much that i dont ever play

  • @YokohamaKaidashi
    @YokohamaKaidashi 3 роки тому

    Great video, only have a tiny nit pick. I think of concrete goals as a tool. Like you said, if you only focus on it, it can absolutely demotivate you but I think that if you don't look at the concrete results of what and how you're doing (either with gameplay or mentality) you might find it difficult to improve. I think that you tie bit into analysis but I wanted to leave a comment to help the algorithm.

    • @KoDoRiN
      @KoDoRiN  3 роки тому +2

      All of these are tools to some capacity, but some are better to focus than others.

  • @rob1996ization
    @rob1996ization 3 роки тому +1

    Melee

  • @spacebiggles
    @spacebiggles 3 роки тому

    Hell yeah I subscribed before 1k subs, I'm cool

  • @lakessbm
    @lakessbm 3 роки тому

    Great video! Could you link some of the things you mentioned? Trying to find ' ID data' not sure exactly what u said there in the last tier item

    • @KoDoRiN
      @KoDoRiN  3 роки тому +1

      Do you mean this?
      ikneedata.com/calculator.html

    • @lakessbm
      @lakessbm 3 роки тому

      @@KoDoRiN yess thank you☺️

  • @Atonal_7
    @Atonal_7 3 роки тому

    my practice is literally this upside down

  • @user-st5ls5mz2v
    @user-st5ls5mz2v 3 роки тому

    very nice

  • @bloodredhoro68
    @bloodredhoro68 3 роки тому

    been watching dr k. all day, then your video pops up. don't think thats by chance

  • @Eskiii
    @Eskiii 3 роки тому

    Do you have any tips on how to pick a main? I have like 4 choices but want to focus on one. i have been mostly spectating melee for a few years and want to start playing but its extremely difficult for me to just choose a character in any game and looking to get rid of constantly switching and actually beat someone lol

    • @KoDoRiN
      @KoDoRiN  3 роки тому +1

      It's definitely a process. My character main process went from puff --> falco --> fox --> Marth myself, and what really made me fall in love with Marth was his wavedash feeling, and knowing he's a top tier that I know won't hold me back at top level.
      You can definitely just play any characters you want on the side, but you should choose 1 to invest in long-term, and really see which one of those characters you have a good connection with. Feel free to ask more questions for clarification regarding this.

  • @EatsGlue
    @EatsGlue 3 роки тому

    Any advice on physical health? Specifically hands/wrists. My wrists are pretty fucked up and it led to me quitting melee. But the itch never left. I want to play again! But pain 😞

    • @KoDoRiN
      @KoDoRiN  3 роки тому

      www.patreon.com/1HP

  • @swalotmain866
    @swalotmain866 3 роки тому

    Kodorin sensei, what should I do if I want to play 2 characters, not out of matchup necessity, but because I have fun with both? I know I should probably stick with one for my own improvement, but both characters have equal amt of pros and cons to maining.

    • @KoDoRiN
      @KoDoRiN  3 роки тому +1

      You can play both for fun if you want.
      For improvement sake, you should choose one dominant.
      It's also okay to play melee without the mission to always improve, everyone has their own reasons for playing!

  • @mnoypoiuyt65r4w8
    @mnoypoiuyt65r4w8 3 роки тому

    earned a sub

  • @renos654
    @renos654 3 роки тому

    Good video:)!

  • @Parpeing
    @Parpeing 3 роки тому

    This represents

  • @abubakromar2446
    @abubakromar2446 3 роки тому

    Good video and I have 2 questions:
    What mindset tips do you have when practicing within the game (friendlies and solo practice?
    Got a link to PPMD's google doc compilation and the mindset tips he gave?

    • @KoDoRiN
      @KoDoRiN  3 роки тому +1

      The mindset you would want to have is having a focused goal in what you want to accomplish. If lacking that, analyze and see how you got hit and then practice accordingly.
      Google drive: drive.google.com/drive/folders/106FwRzz5g-RK1ZGCabxT1gPtgCbWs0dG (Marth)
      drive.google.com/drive/folders/106FwRzz5g-RK1ZGCabxT1gPtgCbWs0dG (Falco)
      Mindset: docs.google.com/document/d/1fXip_TlcbWbr5wvNngkDbqsxOl25kAcyUut-zE-MJOs/edit
      Consult Healthy Gamer for more mindset advice

    • @abubakromar2446
      @abubakromar2446 3 роки тому

      @@KoDoRiN thanks for the help

  • @sandwichgamer1075
    @sandwichgamer1075 3 роки тому

    First I thought this was a meme but this is actually really helpful. Great video and sub from me! :D

  • @HitscanSedan
    @HitscanSedan 3 роки тому

    Do you happen to have a link or something to the cognitive stuff for the unhealthy mentality? Great video by the way 8)

    • @KoDoRiN
      @KoDoRiN  3 роки тому +1

      smashboards.com/threads/carefully-ask-ppmd-about-the-tiara-guy.118998/post-22019936

    • @HitscanSedan
      @HitscanSedan 3 роки тому

      That response speed damn near frame perfect lfg

  • @WoobinTheScrub
    @WoobinTheScrub 3 роки тому

    neat

  • @cherishTFT
    @cherishTFT 3 роки тому

    666th subscriber :D love ur content

  • @Martin-tv7hr
    @Martin-tv7hr 3 роки тому

    1:50 what does axe do???

    • @KoDoRiN
      @KoDoRiN  3 роки тому +1

      He's an anomaly, and most of his practice I'd categorize as unfocused practice sessions

  • @mich5946
    @mich5946 3 роки тому +1

    epic

  • @swank8508
    @swank8508 3 роки тому

    Hello, I am a sheik main (you played me a few days ago in viewer games) who used to main fox. in the short term, even with 0 practice, my fox likely out performs my sheik vs ice climbers. Is it worth it to go fox just to get the win but practice sheik ics with the intent to go sheik eventually, since i am investing 0 hours of practice into fox? Thank you

    • @KoDoRiN
      @KoDoRiN  3 роки тому +3

      I recommend you stick it out with Sheik. Sheik has the tools to overcome Icies, and when you run into a competent Icies player, they will eat up your limited fox. Might as well ride it out with Sheik with valuable lessons you may learn long-term.

  • @lukehong7149
    @lukehong7149 3 роки тому +1

    noti gang

  • @lambchu6459
    @lambchu6459 3 роки тому

    Didnt shroomed switch and got better? I supposed he falls under the top player category

  • @names6494
    @names6494 3 роки тому

    What is the ratio of time you spend on each part of the "trifecta"? Do you spend about the same amount of time on each section?

    • @KoDoRiN
      @KoDoRiN  3 роки тому

      It depends on what you need more and what would give you greater returns.

  • @boogergoblin
    @boogergoblin 3 роки тому

    Unrelated but ur marth is sick

  • @pIayingwithmahwii
    @pIayingwithmahwii 3 роки тому +1

    Not saying you're wrong, but Jerry switched mains between puff and fox several times I think, lol. And his results stayed the same/improved LOL. although i guess its fair to say he's plateaued

    • @Mfolsom245
      @Mfolsom245 3 роки тому +1

      Didn't he say that mostly for people outside of the top 100 though? Jerry has been a top 100 player since 2017

    • @d3crescentia
      @d3crescentia 3 роки тому

      arguably, Jerry could have pushed through his plateau and gotten better if he had spent less time grinding other games at the time

  • @Keys60_
    @Keys60_ 3 роки тому

    I wanted to be a Marth player starting out but I really couldn't just get him down no matter what even when I saw myself getting better at the game, so I switched to Sheik since I felt it would be more comfortable and I find myself not hating playing the game I guess
    But I've been playing Link since day 1 fuck what everyone thinks

    • @Keys60_
      @Keys60_ 3 роки тому

      update: fuck sheik, i am a dual marth/link main again.

  • @benjaminkhong
    @benjaminkhong 3 роки тому

    Can you do one for ultimate I think it would be really interesting!

    • @KoDoRiN
      @KoDoRiN  3 роки тому +1

      I don't know anything about ultimate so it probably wouldn't be good lmao. However if other seasoned ult players want to collaborate, i'd be happy to give my inputs!

    • @andrewgenz906
      @andrewgenz906 3 роки тому

      I think almost all of this stuff applies equally to both games anyway. The only exception is multiple mains/secondaries is probably more valid in Ultimate than in Melee.

  • @antoitoine
    @antoitoine 3 роки тому

    i disagree on 1 point
    pi is actually fun to learn

    • @KoDoRiN
      @KoDoRiN  3 роки тому

      how???

    • @antoitoine
      @antoitoine 3 роки тому

      ​@@KoDoRiN i was memeing but i actually think that its a good memory exercise
      thats what make me notice how much things im able to remember

  • @lancebunag5570
    @lancebunag5570 3 роки тому +1

    Is double shining considered an obscure hard tech with little return? I find that that its pretty useful espescially as falco against fox when shield pressuring, as fox can shine OOS after your shine to beat almost everything you do after your shine. Im asking because I dont know.

    • @KoDoRiN
      @KoDoRiN  3 роки тому +1

      No, it has a lot of applications. More useful for Falco than Fox tho.

  • @michaelbrady7104
    @michaelbrady7104 3 роки тому

    Pp chat says hi for the algorithm

  • @colinmurphy2214
    @colinmurphy2214 3 роки тому +1

    6:18
    Plup, Mew2King, and Leffen all come to mind

    • @KoDoRiN
      @KoDoRiN  3 роки тому

      *outside of top level