RAPT Bluetooth Thermometer For HomeBrewers
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- Опубліковано 7 лют 2023
- RAPT Bluetooth Thermometer For HomeBrewers
This video looks at the RAPT Bluetooth thermometer, which is a multi purpose upgrade product for users of other RAPT products like the GEN 4 Brewzillas, the RAPT Temperature Controller and the RAPT Fermentation Chamber.
Channel links:-
groups/Brewbeer
www.teespring.com/stores/davi...
Introduction music:- Drink Beer (Till The Day That I Die) by Dazie Mae
Channel links:-
groups/Brewbeer
www.teespring.com/stores/davi...
Introduction music:- Drink Beer (Till The Day That I Die) by Dazie Mae
Channel links:-
groups/Brewbeer
www.teespring.com/stores/davi...
Introduction music:- Drink Beer (Till The Day That I Die) by Dazie Mae - Навчання та стиль
Thank you David - that is very informative. After trying all the online brew shops in New Zealand I have just ordered a heat exchanger plate from Aliexpress. Next on my list will be that thermometer!
Hey Roger, Im surprised that these are not in NZ already? You guys are neighbours to AU.
I have just received mine today. Video and delivery just in time 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Great to hear 🍻🍻🍻
So excited for this to be available in the US
Great, yes awesome stuff for sure 🍻🍻
Nice video David. I've had my bluetooth probe for a couple of months now. It was super easy to set up and it does the job. I absolutely love it!
Cheers Bradley 🍻🍻🍻 Yes, Ive had it for ages, its great to be able to finally share it now that its soon mass available.
Getting one as soon as its back in stock! It will also be nice to use it as thermometer in GF counterflow chiller wortometer! 😀
Great 🍻🍻🍻
Hi, have you tried ? Does it fit in? I have a G40 and the GF wortometer does not work natively. So I was thinking about this solution too but wonder if that'd work.
@@hcl1314 yes, using it everytime i chill my wort with CF chiller! Works like a charm
Grate video David.
I think that Kagland comes up with great innovation all the time and is very active in contrast to grainfather, so it is appropriate to ask if Grainfather has come to a standstill.
Grate work 👍
Many thanks Allan. I think we are all in awe of just how many new products Kegland are rapid firing into the market. It has certainly set them apart. I am never short of new things to cover, that is for sure!
Thanks for the video, David! Great and professional as always.
I managed to order one last week. It was pretty cheap indeed. Hope it's worth it. Does it make any difference on the PID algorithm too? I guess we will have to re-set it.
Great to hear, thank you. I have not noticed any need for PID change personally but I have not tested across all volumes as such.
Thanks for sharing David, can't wait to get mine. I'm 2 brews in to the brewzilla having switched from a 3 vessel set up, the one thing I can't figure out is the best way to control the pump, the %control on the control panel seems to cycle on off giving a much too strong pump, how do other people control it, just with the ball valve? Seems kegland missed a trick with this.
Ball valve works well to control the flow.😊
Just the ball joint works for me set to half way and using the top plate
As above but really during the mash you should be going full flow.
@David Heath Homebrew thanks for the reply. I'm new to all in one RIMS systems so never knew you should be going full flow during the mash, thanks for the tip.
Im always happy to help 🍻🍻🍻
Hi David, you shortly mentioned the difference override in the video. This prevents the system from heating to the desired temperature since the probe reading will always be too high. In the menu, you can set the allowed difference, do you have any experience or advise on how high to set it? The standard 2 degrees seem a bit low.
Ive been using the standard personally 🍻🍻
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Thanks David, I think Kegland advise to set it to 10 degrees, but that seems to be a bit high and causes overshooting. Complicated stuff...
Great video, thanks David!
There are non in the UK yet as I'm desperate to buy one to solve my poor efficiency. May I ask do the PID setting stay the same if using top and bottom thermometers?
Thank you.
I do not think this is the answer for your efficiency though. That is almost always solved by changing your grain crush, assuming that you are using brewing malts that are fresh?
I finally got a 7.5kg through without stirring it every 10 mins without getting the grain bed blocking up as usual I put the top plate in on the brewzilla 4 and put ball pump to half flow however instead of 1.075 I only got 1.58 O G which I'm annoyed about so now looks like I'm going to have to sit and stir it all way through the mash and filter it after fermenting to get my beer clear.
Are you crushing you own grain? It is your crush that needs narrowing down that will solve these issues.
No brew day in Nottingham crush it fresh and are aliment it's correct
I think the grain crush is where things need to change to help this.
Thanks for the video David. Just bought one. looking for some advice before use. Controling the strike and boil. Do you switch the rapt device to the built in thermostat as the primary? Or can you use both and if you do do, how? Do you just allow the prob to dangle in there water? Thanks
Cheers. Its very easy to set up. Follow the instructions with it , you will use both 🍻🍻😎
The probe goes into the middle of the top plate 🍻🍻🍻
@@DavidHeathHomebrewhi when you bring the strike temp up how do use the thermometer without the top filter plate too keep the thermometer in place? Thanks
I only engage it once I have started the mash.
Just wondering if you have completed your review of the Rapt Pill as I'm looking forward to see that also? Cheers :)
I have this one:- ua-cam.com/video/3HB4FqZMaXI/v-deo.html
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Oh yes i forgot about that one sorry. Too many to keep track of now haha Cheers :)
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How accurate are these and how can you make sure that the brewzilla temp probe and rapt BT thermometer are calibrated at the same temps? ie at 0c and 100c.
Hi John, I do not have the accuracy data from Kegland but in my testing up against know accurate instruments my unit does very well. You can calibrate these plus the systems temp probe. 🍻🍻🍻
Brewtools also offer mash temperature probe, I have it and use it.
This is in addition to the probe supplied with the system so that you can measure at different levels.
Can these be calibrated? I found I've needed to do a good but of adjusting on my other rapt devices.
Sure 🍻🍻🍻
I'm anxiously awaiting the availability of this and the heat exchanger plate in the US. I solved my efficiency issue by using 1lb of rice hulls in a batch. I got 80% mash efficiency without stirring just by recirculating on my Gen 4 65L.
Nice! What mash thickness were you using?
I do not think you will have long to wait now thankfully.
@nathanparry8315 I did a no sparge, full volume mash. I thought 80% was quite impressive for that.
Yup, not bad at all 🍻🍻
Very nice. I do a mash thickness of 3.5l/kg and I'm getting 76%
Hi David I bought this device after watching your video. Used twice making 23l but having problems with getting the mash temp up to target temp. Took me 30min into the mash of playing with the temp differential and heating strength. I also found when trying to get the mash temp up quicker that i was overshooting by 5c.Have you had similar problems and any advice to get around this? Ps i also have the heat exchanger plate. Thanks
Hi, that sounds odd. I think you should talk to where you bought it from to ensure tuat you have things set up right and the unit isnt faulty.
After giving the matter some thought. Could It be an issue with my strike temp not being high enough??? After it stabilised it was ok
I believe it could have an effect but what caused that do you feel?
Maybe the new thermometer needs calibrating. Is it something that is usually done when new from the box?
@haydnmaxwell649 I would certainly recommend it yes
I am puzzled as to how the temperature across the volume of the mash is made the same with one heat source.
I initially wrote more but I changed my mind. See how others respond.
James
James, it works really well as you saw. Its a case of letting the two probes guide how the whole mash is heated.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Same comment really. How can two temperasture sensors in different locations and one heat source linearise the temperature across the mash?
Again I have deleted additional, more critical comments but I do not believe the extra sensor in of any use, cosmetic.The temperatures will stabilise anyway over the time of the mash. On a GF the basket has in effect a water jacket around it at the mash temperature, with that and the recirculation it must come to very nearly the same thermal status.
@@jamesgoacher1606 It has an overshoot value dif between the two probes that you can set. If you don't have this system, then the temp MIGHT stabilize IF your loses are low enough and IF your recirculation is good enough. Even then, tho, it will take significantly longer to do so, since here we can set the heat source sensor to get to the set value + x. That will force the top mash temperature to get to the right temp no matter the recirculation volume(assuming there is one) and no matter your temp losses. It will even help to get there much, much faster and if your PID is correct to not overshoot, hopefully.
@@feronimus7723 The temperature controller is supposed to be PID, Proportional, Integral Derivative. The Proportional works when the actual temperature gets to within a set 'proportion' of the instrument, default is normally 5%. the actual set value is calculated in setting based upon the process. As the process does not have a fixed value (quantity of water) because there may be differing amounts due to different grain weights this would be (should be) set by the manufacturer based upon experience. The proportion of heat applied reduces as the actual temperature approaches the set value. The drivative modifies that value based upon (when properly tuned) how quickly the process responds. Thus the quantity varies as the process gets closer to the set point such as to take out he overshoot. The derivative is for when the actual varies at its final position either ove or below the set point by introducing an offset. so that th actual corresponds to the setpoint.
The process is well known and well understood and is frankly easy with water. The object of a properly tuned instrument is to (in this case hot) get to the set point as quickly as possible without overstoot and if the setpoint is changed to move to the new setpoint as quickly as possible without over or under shoot.
As for the grain. The grain is a mass of material in water. Water is a very good conductor of heat and a mass of water/grain mix in the quantities we have will be within a degree, probably far less withing a very short period of time. There will be little or no convection becasue the means for this to happen is trapped within the grains so the temperature will be spread by conduction.
The reason there were two different temperatures on the sensors initially is because the grain had been mixed in with the water and had naturally reduced its temperature whereas there was water around the Brewzilla (remembered the name) sensor. The water from the area of the sensor was mixed in by being recirculated I presume and this caused the temperature of the water/grain mix to rise. It can only rise and it can never rise above the temperature of the water that is being added to it.
I fail to see where the magic is. What would you expect?
Purely for information the correct way to tune the instrument is a three-fold procedure.
1 - Know or set the full range of the instrument sensor. In the case of an NTC sensor that is difficult unless the insrument has a setting.
2 - Fill the Mash Tun with the amount of water required. Set the instument as a simple On/Off Instrument and observe the temperature Max and Min Over/undershoot. Calculate this a aproportion of the range of the instrument and set this as 'P'.
3. - Run the process, from cold and observe how long it takes for a complete cycle of the temperature swing. Set the 'I' to this value.
The'D' setting is generally set by experience. I have never had an automatically tuned instrument get it correct. Default values are generall 5,5,0.5 i.e. 5% 5mins 0.5 degree.
To me all this second instrument seems to be doing is 'Be a second instument'.
Sorry for the lecture.
@@jamesgoacher1606 Well appreciated the info, I was lucky enough to be able to research about it a few months back when I get the gen 4.
But we don't care about the PID at all here, that's just a way to get to a set temperature. And I think you missed the point of my response.
We don't need 2 temperature probes. We need to read and calculate for one temperature at the right place (The grain). So let's- analyze the problem:
What you need is your mash at a very specific temperature, exactly at the measuring point of your grain.
What you usually get is a system that controls the temperature by measuring it at the point of the heating element for safety reasons.(let's assume we don't care at all about overshoot right now).
The only way that we can achieve that with one element at the bottom, is if we have recirculation or stirring. In the case of recirculation, we can only archive that if we compensate for the thermal energy we loose during the transfer AND the thermal loss of our kettle (If we lose more energy at the top of our kettle than the energy we can transfer with our recirculated mash we are at a total lose.).
For example, on my old HopCat system, during a cold day, the temperature on top of the mash tun was 1.5-2.5 degrees lower than the set temperature (and the temperature the bottom probe was reading) even at full pump speed throughout the one-hour mash. So I had to compensate for that, and raise the temperature of the unit higher or to cover my recirculation tube and kettle with an insulation material.
Now let's take an example where you lose a negligible amount of thermal energy during the transportation (Thicker stainless steel with an insulating cover and indoors). At that case, the 2 probes will bring your grain temperature at the desired speed faster. Because the system has the target temperature set as the probe at the grain, not the probe at your heating elements, delivering more energy (and probably overshooting too, but we don't care about that yet).
Now if you are to add a PID system on it too, the benefit only gets bigger. Because now everything is getting calculated with and for the probe in your grain, with only a "failsafe" measurement near your heating element of a max diff.
So for example, if your recirculation is slow compared to the power of your element you're not going to exceed a certain temperature that you have set at the bottom of your kettle.
So here is an extreme example to make it clear of a bad system with very slow recirculation with great losses (long copper recirculation pipe on a cold windy day) and with big heating elements. In that system we could have a set temperature of 65C (on the grain probe), the bottom probe is reading 70C in order for my grain probe to read 65C. And the system is only accounting, and calculating for that. Now in brewzilla you have an extra override of a set max diff temp that is up to you.
Now, if i had only one probe at the bottom in that extreme case, I would have a nonuniform mash.
Hello! David i ask Kegland about allow sensor differential factor when using PID and Rapt BT thermometer. On theirs YT video they set allow sens.diff. up to even 10 deg c. It is safe when you mash in about 65 deg c. But what about mash out? When I ramp up the temperature to 76 It might be at the bottom about 86 and kill the enzymes. In reply they told me it is really no need to use PID when using Rapt thermometer. I am wondering what is your opinion and experience about that. Best regards
Hi, by default this is set to 2C because the whole idea is to narrow down the temperature not allow it. At mash out temperature is not so sensitive though as you are denaturing the enzymes anyway.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Thanks for reply. Do you also set to 2c or more? Do you use PID when using external thermometer and HED?
I have mine set at 2C, with PID when using the Rapt thermometer. I also have the HED.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Ok. Thank you
🍻🍻
I’m going for a 43 liter batch with my 65L gen4. My settings p: 0,683 I: 0,0015 D: 0
Temp diff between the two sensors 5C
Is this oké or am I way off. The kettle is well insulated.
You should be able to get closer than that
@@DavidHeathHomebrew What do you mean With closer David? Any advise?
Have you narrowed down your pid algorithm settings so that it performs very well at your typical brew volume?
@@DavidHeathHomebrew No I’m still figuring out what the best way is to dyle in the PID values.
Are the following steps oké?
1: Raise the temp with 10 degrees C. When it overshoots more than 1 degree, scale de P back. When it undershoots more than 1 degree scale de P up.
2: When it undershoots and it takes to much time scale de I down. When it overshoots again than scale the I up.
Next week i’m expecting the bluetooth thermometer. Curios if life is getting easyer then.😂
Ok, sounds about right. This will be key to fixing this I believe.
David - would there be any chance of slowing down the delivery of the script a little? It really seems to have speeded up a lot recently and it can be quite uncomfortable. I guess you’re trying to squeeze more info into a shorter duration, but honestly I don’t think most brewers are that bothered about Tik Tok style durations of vids. I don’t mean this to be overly critical by the way - I’m a fan of the videos but the nature of them does seem to have changed recently in terms of ease and comfort of watching.
Thanks Simon. I had some comments recently saying to speed up. You can adjust playback speed up and down though. I guess I can never please everyone, so a medium pace is the way to go. Thanks for the feedback 🍻🍻🍻
So now, someone realized that having a solid bottom against the heating element is beneficial, after years of being worried about scorching?
Heating elements have changed a lot in recent years and now we have ultra low watt density. So as such the hot spots are gone compared to the older style.