Atheist Debates - Why are people LEAVING Christianity?
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- Опубліковано 6 лют 2024
- The original article: baptistnews.com/article/i-ask...
And yes, it's wild that I'd link to baptistnews - but that's where this very LGBTQIA-friendly survey got posted.
If people are leaving church communities because of how those faith communities treat their gay friends - what does that mean? Is religion just a club of conveniently agreeing people and NOT a statement of confidence about the truth of a god?
I don't care about stats, I just want to thank Matt for helping me in my journey through reality.
Why would you thank Matt for peddling a pack of lies to you?
Would you thank a dope dealer for getting you addicted to crack?
@@JimCastleberrygood thing he isn't peddling lies 😂
@@JimCastleberrygoing to post evidence or are you just mad that Matt told you off once over the phone on obe of his shows and your butt is still sore?
@@JimCastleberryyou’re mad huh? Go talk to a therapist and stop creeping on Matt’s videos you weirdo. 🤮🤢🤮
@@JimCastleberry Why aren't you asking that about your religious leaders?
They're leaving Christianity because fairytales are for children.
If you read the Bible as a fantasy book it is actually very good
@@brysonsteadham9029 You think so? I think it needed an editor well stocked with a huge supply of red ink. Some good stories (many/most plagiarised from other sources) but no narrative flow.
Going how Churches are desperately trying to push Religion on kids in public schools,.,
it seems more and more kids are not attending church either.
How amazing that thousands of years ago, the Bible predicted a great falling away from the faith. The Bible gets it right once again.
@@LivingSoul1 Just an ackowledgment of the fact that they couldn't keep the con going forever and that people would get smarter at some stage. Well, some people, anyway.
Ex-Christian here. The age of information is a gift. The time and place I was born sealed my fate to be a Christian for a couple decades. But the era in which I was born also sealed my fate to eventually leave the faith.😊
Yeah i doubt if i didn't get a phone that i would be still be an athiest today
I left in the 1950's when nun said my friends were going to hell for going to the wrong church with the wrong god. When I got a little older and realizerd I was stuck on Chuck and not Pamela my fate as a hated pariah was set in stone. Why would I want to be part of any outfit that wanted me dead?
There is no such being on the planet as an ex-Christian. When one is truly born of the Spirit (which is what it takes to be a true Christian) they are always born of the Spirit (Holy Spirit). You were never born again. You may have been religious, but a person cannot be given the gift of eternal life and then not have eternal life the next day. Eternal means forever, everlasting. Don't let these people deceive you. When the blind (spiritually) lead the blind, they will both fall off the cliff.
@@paulgemme6056 Ah, the infamous no true Scotsman fallacy. Would you tell someone who divorced that they were never really married? Would you tell someone who left their job that they were never really employed? I strongly doubt it.
@@user-dm8uh8ml8u God/Jesus Christ is not like finite man. God is Gracious and Merciful. His Grace is greater than our sin and his Mercy endures forever. It is of his Mercies that we are not consumed because his compassion fails not. Sin/evil has come into the world. One day God/Christ Jesus will clean it all up.
For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Not fast enough.
To me, if it were down to 11% it still wouldn't be fast enough.😂😂😂
Agreed
Play the video at 1.5x speed if you want it faster
@@DemiImp Play it at 2x speed if you want it even faster
You don't see any problem with echo chambers? Yeah I agree religion is bullshit but at least people actually interacted face to face back when Christianity held sway.
If you mention God here in New Zealand you'll most likely get rolling eyes than anything else.
Sensible people.😂😂😂
I guess that's why Ray Comfort left
Really? Do they welcome Americans?
@@luvyatubers As tourists yes. As immigrants? Probably a lot of hoops to jump through. The ones who visit tend to have their heads on straight. It's the ones who don't, who haven't seen the rest of the world and so think they're *_NUMBER ONE_* when "Number 2" is more like it if you catch my drift.
@@warren52nz Lol. I think most countries have #1 areas in them nowadays. Murica has a lot of 3rd world areas, as they are called. I'd like to immigrate but now I remember the covid shtuff was ridiculous there as was here
I'll never forget the day I was no longer christian.
Was 22 years old, 27 now. So much fucking church and "teachings" forced through.
Was literally just "Do I really believe in this stuff?"
...
"Nah." 😂😂😂
So much wasted time and energy, I'm just glad it happened so early.
rant negative thought: thats pretty early, its a positive, imagine all the religious that dont change their mind, left behind... u are the lucky 'chosen' one lol haha (but really one who possibly looked internally at oneself not sheep)
(some crony stuff) live life now, be you, you are now you...
@@mnm8818 Thank you.
It does make me sad that people die before they are truly honest with themselves.
If they actually like being religious, great.
But if they don't, leave!
"But you'll go to hell." - Their scapegoat
@@JordanDCGehl yeah, Rant add: I guess it doesnt matter religious or not, *BUT what does* is your character- saying one will go to h3ll and feeling fulfilled cause of that thought, or fill with hate, anger, victimhood, narrow minded blah blah- thats the issue
@@mnm8818
Colons are only supposed to be used after complete sentences.
You know what?
I don't care, I've been correcting people on that for so long, it's like trying to fight the ocean.
People just don't learn things anymore.
@@WhoThisMonkey you mean this :
not sure if that is sarcasm-
it precedes sentences... or informs a list (recipe for jam:) ... I use to work with money, graphs and reports so english structure doesnt really matter- "jedi mind tricks dont work on me, only money" hehehe
i just use whatever symbols to give visual clarity, best ones are ▲▼
No one is born a Christian, or a member of some political party. Life must be horrible when it’s already chosen for you. Imagine never knowing what its like, not to worry about having human emotions they are commanded not to have. I personally think it’s child abuse, and i’m sure it causes all types of mental disorders. I don’t know how it can’t.
If you're born into a Christian family, you don't get a choice. I was hit and grounded anytime I didn't "follow the faith".
Absolutely true. Likewise we are not born into classes. Working class for example is a construction. We are all born equal and children should be allowed to grow to make their own choices. I agree it must be terrible to be made to believe in fairy tales through fear and manipulation.
I'm just waiting until I'm 18, So I can leave. Not sure if that's safe either. Not sure the percentage of people who were skeptics before adulthood.
its actually been proven that being raised in a strict fundamental household can stunt your brain development
There's quite extensive research that theists have better mental health outcomes.
There will always those who scream "No True Scotsman" anytime someone leaves the church.
The best gift of autism is that most of us aren't religious at all. I'm so happy for that.
Not so happy that I was forced to attend church until I was fifteen.
Once out of kkkatlik graded school gulag I stopped going to church.
Try on schizophrenia and you'll see through naturalist BS.
AYYY i knew there was a correlation somewhere. Same
I'm part of the battery gang, too 😊AuDHD, atheist, aroace, and agenderfluid. I did believe for a time, however.
@@wintergray1221agenderfluid? So without gender fluid? I can top you off if you need some, partner.
Religion has always been a prop for those who are unable to live with the unknown. And the fact that people are leaving religion behind is a sign of maturity.
Well I believe in spirits and god
We are not sinners because we sin, we sin because we are sinners. We do not have to teach a child how to lie/sin. We have to teach them how not to lie/sin. That lying is not a good thing, it is bad/sinful. We are all born with this sinful condition, having the capacity to do wrong/sin. If one refuses to admit this, they are in denial and the truth is not in them. Jesus Christ (His shed blood) is the only cure for this condition. No religion needed. By Grace through faith are we saved. Just believe the truth (Jesus Christ) and repent (change your mind).
@@paulgemme6056 Orrrr... alternatively you could do the right on your own initiative and leave out all the made up fantasy as your motivation.
@@kalewintermute28 Who has the final say on what is right (good) and what is wrong (evil/sin).
@@paulgemme6056 To what end is a 'final say' ever necessary. Individuals either treat others as they themselves would like to be treated or they don't, those that do realise the world is a better place for that action.
Can't say leaving christianity cost me anything that I care about now, But I gained a sense of intellectual integrity, and empathy for marginalized groups.
We are not sinners because we sin, we sin because we are sinners. We do not have to teach a child how to lie/sin. We have to teach them how not to lie/sin. That lying is not a good thing, it is bad/sinful. We are all born with this sinful condition, having the capacity to do wrong/sin. If one refuses to admit this, they are in denial and the truth is not in them. Jesus Christ (His shed blood) is the only cure for this condition.
@@paulgemme6056 And who convinced you that sin even exists at all ?
@@paulgemme6056"for the Bible tells me so!"
Must worship magic book
@@Weirdomanification When I was a younger man, I learned then that evil/sin was not a good thing, and it was everywhere. In the home, in the schools, in the streets, in the world, everywhere. Because there is sin/evil there has to be good/righteousness. I learned way back then man is basically evil/sinful, and God/Jesus Christ is good/righteous. No religion needed. I was not brought up indoctrinated with religion. When they (public school) tried teaching me that I (men) came from apes, I knew then and there they were missing the mark and not telling me the truth because they didn't know the truth (Jesus Christ).
@@paulgemme6056you sound so brainwashed. I feel sorry for you.
Notice that "hates god" and "wanted to sin" isn't anywhere on the list.
For me, personally, my initial reason was the intellectual failures of young earth creationism. And my final straw was divine hiddenness
This world is an evil, corrupt, sinful place and it is getting worse by the day. Jesus Christ/God is our only hope. If a man says he has never sinned (done wrong) he is a liar, and the truth is not in him. We are not sinners because we sin, we sin because we are sinners. God/Jesus Christ offers the free gift of forgiveness/pardon, the gift of eternal life - to know him. Atheists can only offer death.
As someone who has always been atheist, this ‘just hates god’ thing is just bizarre! I guess I must hate Klingons as well.
@@patchso It's not about hate at all, it's about unbelief. Unbelief is the only reason a soul/spirit goes to hell. Read the gospel of John chapter three.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. -Jesus Christ (John 3:18)
But wanting to sin is indeed the main reason for it, but obviously people don’t want to admit to it. Don’t you think it’s a strange coincidence that religions lost membership as soon as nightclubs and online pornography were invented? Wanting to sin is a big factor in this.
@@blupandax7902are you claiming that nightclubs are a recent invention, when prostitution is the oldest profession? Religious people really are all stupid aren’t they.
As skeptics, it's extremely difficult but important to keep in mind that reason isn't usually what convinces someone of any given point, and that we are no different. It shouldn't be surprising that most people don't appear to convert or deconvert for strictly logical reasons, many decisions aren't made that way, no matter what we would prefer. People generally think they are more reasonable than they are, and that makes it all the more important to test yourself in perpetuity. That is the challenge of skepticism
Logic is a learned subject, people mistakenly believe they understand it naturally without studying it extensively.
What's worse, people use the word in place of the word 'reasoning' ALL the time.
Makes me want to chew glass.
'by your logic'
'by that logic'
🤦🏻♂️
Excellent points, thank you.
I deconstructed, when I realized that they didn't have the answers that they claimed to have, and then rapidly deconverted when I realized that I was being actively lied to.
My beliefs being true very much matters to me, and I always must continuously reexamine them, so that I waste no more of my precious time being fooled.
@@WhoThisMonkeygood point. Thanks.
Thats why the ones who had no idea what was out there in the world just over the hill went to explore anyway, and succeeded in spite of their imaginations.
Meanwhile, the skeptics are still in the trees hooting and screeching their percieved dangers.
Excellent point. Skepticism is a tool, in the same way that the wheel or fire is.
This is very interesting starting around 12 min mark. This was one of the main reasons I finally stepped away from the church and the Republican party after having grown up in a Christian family, my father being a minister in a protestant denomination.
My wife and I could not understand nor fathom how people, including my parents, would abandon the core tenants of the religion they raised me in and went completely counter to what we always were taught to believe.
I was taught that my integrity was the most important thing I had and no matter what else I lost, this was something that could not be taken away from me so long as I maintained it. I saw all these people throwing this most precious thing away for the sake of a single man and abandon their moral and ethical values.
I do not like to talk politics and I won't get into one side vs the other, but I cannot and will not abandon my integrity for this "cause".
Well said. That's so true and what I despise the most about any people is a rejection of integrity and sound reasoning.
And any religion that gets involved with politics is a religion that per principle has no buisness being considered as an honest or a institution that follows a true God.
God as defined would never compromise integrity of anyone for Amy reasons not even his own, especially if his nature is honesty itself. Making someone sacrifice their integrity would be anathema to betraying your own, so if we take the common description of God for granted then he can't do that.
A religious institution that sells of their integrity to buy followers through political intrigues and manipulation isn't following a God or not following a God that's warranted to be followed.
Apologetics aswell is an red flag aswell, the more neccesary it is, the less likely they're following anything real that communicate or cares for them. Politics is were religions go when their Apologetics Fails them and isn't enough. 💁♂️
@@guytheincognito4186Depends on which god you are talking about. The christian god picked sides and helped his people in cruel wars where men, babies and old people were killed while virgins were given as war trophies. Of course this was his jewish era, but the bible says that god never change, so there is that.
@@lillia5333
That's enough to disqualify him, not to mention most wars his people were the ones to start and that he had no capital punishment that wasn't death.
Also when I say God 'as defined, I mean every Abrahamic God with a all good/'all loving trait or traits. When I say Religion I just mean any religion that does x example qualify for disqualification of this sort. Because any God with one or both traits mentioned as their nature cannot manipulate another person to abandon their own integrity without betraying the essence of his own integrity in the process. 💁♂️
I became an atheist at age 20. But I didn't drop the GOP and conservative politics for another 5 or 6 years. While my becoming an atheist was a more or less intuitive decision, reading George Smith's "The Case Against God" put my atheism on a rational basis and pushed me to examine all my other beliefs. I dropped my opposition to abortion, I dropped my belief that trickle-down economics would bring prosperity to all, I dropped my belief in all the shit that Republicans and libertarians espouse.
@@lanceash
Bad decision my friend, atheism is logically bankrupt, it’s self delusion madness.
I would hope it's because there's no logical reason to believe
Nah cause Islam is the fastest growing
SHORT ANSWER: BECAUSE CHURCH MEMBERSHIP IS MORE OPTIONAL THAN EVER.
@Call_Me_Rio That's largely cuz Muslims have lots of children.
@@Call_Me_Rio only due to birth rate.
@@Call_Me_Riohere is pew
Just over half of the projected growth of the American Muslim population from 2010 to 2015 is due to immigration. Over the last 20 years, there has been an increase in the number of Muslim immigrants coming to the U.S. The number of Muslim immigrants currently represents about 10% of all legal immigrants arriving in the U.S., and a significantly smaller percentage of unauthorized immigrants.
The other main cause of Islam’s recent growth is natural increase. American Muslims tend to have more children than Americans of other religious faiths. Muslims also tend to be younger than the general public, so a larger share of Muslims will soon be at the point in their lives when people begin having children.
So immigration and new families having children is leading to an increase in Muslims in the US. A secular society doing secular things leads to secular outcomes. None of this is bad. Over time I suspect living in a country that doesn’t kill atheists some of these new Muslims will lose their religion as well. Probably over LGBT rights and general human decency as well.
I left Christianity in my 20s because of all the obvious contradictions between religion and reality, science, and the common sense I saw. I grew up in Russia, so going to Church in the 90s wasn't common. The Christian community, music, and human right was not a reason for me to leave or stay back then.
Religion was a way to know oneself and the world. For me personally pros of religion were the certainty that god takes care of you. That you are not alone in this world. And that is what I lost when became an atheist. But with atheism, I have more tools to understand the world.
Believers : 🫨 you don't believe??
Dats not da only thing lost besides yo 👻
Some people call it 'Cultural Christianity.' It can be explained by people getting together and doing things together. My parents did it to be around people.
I actually went to Seminary to learn how to solve the religious verses the scientific views of realty. I so much wanted to be able to "prove" for religion was right.
Us Xtian U.S.ers were told that Russia made Christianity illegal.
We were told a lot about Russia that I'm thinking might not be true.
It was the Red Scare thing. Communism was the anti-Christ back then.
My uncle was deeply involved in underground churches in the USSR, in the1960s and 70s. I'd love to hear from someone that was living there at that time.
Even though my dad was a pastor, I was never really a believer. My earliest recollections are of skepticism. When I was about ten years old, I concluded that the Bible was just a book written by humans, nothing more, and most of the kids around me agreed. By the time I was thirteen, I realized that about 30% of the congregation were non-believers like me, but were stuck there for whatever reason, like me. Their bodies were still in church, but their brains had left long ago.
My mother used to say that all my friends were there with their mothers, so I should be there too. I told her that I spoke to my friends on a regular basis, and NEWSFLASH! ... they did not want to be there either! Their mothers were telling them that Ron was there with his mother, so they should be also.
I got knuckled on the forehead for that one, with her yelling that I believe. Scared the shit out of me, and I was done with religion at the age of twelve.
@@ronthered138 My mom tried that on me too. I guess that we can't blame our moms for trying, lol. What really did it for me was when I was ten, I asked my dad how we know that the Bible is true, and he got this psychotic look on his face, grabbed me by the short hairs and said, "Don't you ever, EVER, question the word of God. Do you hear me?" That scared the shit out of me, and I knew right then and there, that it was all BS. If the only argument you have is threats of violence, then you're obviously lying. That was the first and last time I ever talked about religion with my dad.
I too am a PK. I had the same growing up experience you did (I think). It just doesn’t make sense.
Interesting the bit about feelings. Many atheists love to stress that they left Christianity for rational reasons. Aside from those that weren’t really that engaged by the faith, I doubt many leave Christianity for rational reasons (same for those coming to faith). At least not initially. Once the emotional bond has been broken, then there is openness to critical thought.
@themightybrew3979 Of the 50 or so PKs that I knew growing up, I only know of two for sure that are strong believers and are still participating in church. I have one brother who still attends, but he fully admits that it's all BS. He only goes because of the music and the fellowship (and the wife). There seems to be something about PKs that makes us extra skeptical.
Excellent assessment! Thanks for presenting this information in a genuine, intellectually honest, and constructive manor. I think this approach is likely to have the greatest impact in guiding people to seek the truth based on sound reasoning.
When people say they think the church is out of step with what they think God thinks, I don't think they claim special knowledge. I think what they mean is they were raised on "God is Love and Forgiveness" and what they are seeing from organized religions is definitely not love or forgiveness. It's the difference between accepting what believers have said about God and their actions while invoking God. They were sold a hippie God and now are being told God is demanding and hateful.
Exactly 💯
@@guytheincognito4186pp
Yep, it is interesting how much christian authorities disagree not only with what themselves claimed about god, but about what the bible claims about god.
I stopped believing when I started thinking. I remember being a small kid and believing something. But once I reached my early teens what I was told in Sunday School was such obvious nonsense that the more they talked the less I believed. The priest constantly asking for money from the pulpit did not help. I didn’t stop going to church until I left home just to keep the peace at home .
Same❤
@@danimack38 Reconciliation comes when one admits their sinful condition and acknowledges their need for God's Grace and Mercy. Unbelief which is caused by one's foolish pride (self-righteousness) is the only cause for a soul/spirit to go to hell because they choose, they reject the free gift of God that he offers to all who are humble enough to admit their need for the cross and the blood of Christ Jesus (forgiveness). No religion needed. Just faith, faith plus nothing. We are not sinners because we sin, we sin because we are sinners.
They just love to cry false persecution. They have be victims.
Anyone whom wasted much time that could have been spent towards what actually made them happy or passionate, need something or someone to blame. Usually it's persecution.😂
They say the hardest thing to admit is that you were conned.
@@JordanDCGehltrue, look at all the religious people and maga culists, can't come to terms that they were conned
The whole thing is a persecution cult that specialises in guilt-trips, unquestioning servility and divisive superstition.
just like jews?? lol
The Jews came up with this psychologic tactic of manipulation, and the Christians borrowed it from them. Teach your in-group to always expect and act like you are being persecuted, and you will find persecution everywhere, even if you have to manufacture it.
I'm 70, in my youth it was the social pressure of the time that filled the pews
Do you know God is the principle of all things that you see, otherwise those things will not be there??? Come back to Christinity and to God (wh9ch exist no matter what you modern godsless alone weak people think) and stop be frustrating and obsessed with us and what with we believe, because you are in into a worthless stupid BS modern Cult that offer nothing... Stop be a godless alone weak obsessed frustrated person and come back to God, because soon or later he will ask you why you did not believ ein me, after I created you, and you will be very much weak and fuc... up, ok? (by the way you know very well every Goddenier is a lier, so do not be a lier as well, and come back to God, you will retake the dignity you lost when you lost him)...
People are finally realizing that it's all made up.
Much love and appreciation from New Zealand ❤
You aethiest are all the same 😂😂
You folks who deconverted are way more brave than i am. I ALWAYS thought religion was silly. I never was one of you. I just didn't think there was a big reason to oppose religion until i learned more about them. Thank you for being strong enough to check to see if you are actually DOING what you were saying you were.
I'm in my late 60s. In my early teens, I was baptized as a Seventh Day Adventist. In my late-teens, I concluded that faith was BS. By my thirties, I'd concluded that _all_ religion was about priests and religious hierarchies scamming people out of money and exerting control over their flock, but my position was live and let live. However, the toxic changes in the religious-political landscape over the last couple decades mean that I'm now actively antagonistic toward religion and believers.
*I (this word should always be capitalized)
The thing is most of them aren't brave; they left religion simply because they felt certain emotional or social needs weren't met anymore. Not because they came to the conclusion religion is a con based on superstitious nonsense.
What a wonderful gracious post.
@@allanmason3201
Souds like you confuse religion on the one hand with following God on the other. You mad a bad choice my friend.
Left Christianity: I always had doubts about the validity of the religion. I took the “you’re a miserable sinner” argument hook line and sinker, which caused me to choke down my objections. I was sitting down on my lunch break in November 2017, when the thought occurred to me: “what do atheists think?” I’ll never forget the moment that that thought hit me. I sat at the restaurant for 2 hours watching UA-cam videos, having called in for the rest of the day from work halfway in. I walked out of that restaurant an atheist, and it was the beginning of The Enlightenment in my life, which continues to this day.
Could you kindly review these texts? I believe it contains valuable information from which you can benefit regarding life, God, and creations.
Topic: A loving God would never reject a sincere heart searching for direction from its creator!
"O My servants, I have forbidden oppression for Myself and have made it forbidden amongst you, so do not oppress one another. O My servants, all of you are astray except for those I have guided, so seek guidance of Me and I shall guide you, O My servants, all of you are hungry except for those I have fed, so seek food of Me and I shall feed you. O My servants, all of you are naked except for those I have clothed, so seek clothing of Me and I shall clothe you. O My servants, you sin by night and by day, and I forgive all sins, so seek forgiveness of Me and I shall forgive you. O My servants, you will not attain harming Me so as to harm Me, and will not attain benefitting Me so as to benefit Me. O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to be as pious as the most pious heart of any one man of you, that would not increase My kingdom in anything. O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to be as wicked as the most wicked heart of any one man of you, that would not decrease My kingdom in anything. O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to rise up in one place and make a request of Me, and were I to give everyone what he requested, that would not decrease what I have, any more that a needle decreases the sea if put into it. O My servants, it is but your deeds that I reckon up for you and then recompense you for, so let him who finds good, praise Allah, and let him who finds other than that, blame no one but himself."
"Whoever chooses to be guided, it is only for their own good. And whoever chooses to stray, it is only to their own loss. No soul burdened with sin will bear the burden of another. And We would never punish ˹a people˺ until We have sent a messenger ˹to warn them˺."
Note:
Utilize your brain to uncover life's purpose. Foster clear thinking by reflecting alone, free from external influence.
@@ibrahimalharbi3358 i believe you are just full of BS
@@ibrahimalharbi3358 bro you just quoted a text thats been repeatedly shared for literally millennia, what do you mean "reflect alone free from external influence" ?
if that's the key to thinking clearly then please rewrite your comment minus all the external influence so that we can get an idea of what you really think.
It took me almost 50 years before I decided to do what you are doing. I attended Bible College and taught Bible for many years. I was groomed and indoctrinated from an early childhood. I am finding life is so much better not believing in all the lies that I was told from an early age. I feel so much freer now that I have stopped believing in a god who isn't there. Much success to you as you deconstruct.
I think it's fair to say that the churches will end up more and more extreme, as the less extreme, less dogmatic find their way out.
They will also get smaller, and less politically powerful, so there's that.
I think small extreme religions are called cults. Cults don’t have much social licence.
@@EnglishMike A snake is at its most dangerous when cornered.
I was saying this stuff at the end, about providing a landing place for those leaving, to you and others 13 years ago, glad to hear it from you. Maybe I mixed in some of that "wrong thinking", but that’s part of the deconstruction process.
I think, therefore I am not a theist.
I like that, its catchy.
It could be refined to: I think, therefore I am atheist.
Atheism is the biggest disease of our age. The person who denies tries to convince himself that God does not exist, but one obvious thing cannot be denied. The existence of an order in the universe is the greatest evidence of God's existence. The sun in the sky is like a lamp offered to the service of humanity. It illuminates and warms. The darkness of the night was created for rest. Rain was created for plants. It rains regularly for its formation. Animals are offered to the service of humanity. The seas are a separate source of income and are beautiful. These cannot be coincidences. It was the gift of a creator. Islam says that Allah exists and is one. Islam praises good morals and says that those who do good will be blessed in heaven forever.
I'm an atheist, but read Augustine or Erasmus or any number of Christian (or other theist) writers and tell me they weren't thinking. Yeah, I don't agree with them but I can't sit here and say they put no thought into what they wrote.
@@Guitcad1 it was just a joke, not to be taken seriously.
@@aubreyleonae4108One of the oldest excuses in the bully's arsenal. "Hey! I was just messin' with ya! Cantcha take a joke?"
There are none so blind as those that will not see. That describes a christian perfectly.
Describes you perfectly too
@@gerryroush8391 Wow, that was an impressive retort.
Atheism is the biggest disease of our age. The person who denies tries to convince himself that God does not exist, but one obvious thing cannot be denied. The existence of an order in the universe is the greatest evidence of God's existence. The sun in the sky is like a lamp offered to the service of humanity. It illuminates and warms. The darkness of the night was created for rest. Rain was created for plants. It rains regularly for its formation. Animals are offered to the service of humanity. The seas are a separate source of income and are beautiful. These cannot be coincidences. It was the gift of a creator. Islam says that Allah exists and is one. Islam praises good morals and says that those who do good will be blessed in heaven forever.
Romans and John says God blinds people so...😂
LGBT issues were my initial reason for leaving my church. I watched several of my friends brought up in front of the church and kicked out because of their decisions to live in accordance with their orientation. I wish I could say that was the end for me, but it was at least the beginning of the end. The final reason I let go of my faith altogether was because of intellectual honesty. I came to realize that the main reason I believed was because I had been taught to do so from a time that pre-dated my capacity for rational thought, and that I didn’t really find any of it convincing on its own merits.
@inktransfercomics
The reason you left church (religion) is because the flesh is weak. The flesh loves sin/sinful desires. Religion will save no one.
Reconciliation comes when one admits their sinful condition and acknowledges their need for God's Grace and Mercy. Unbelief which is caused by one's foolish pride (self-righteousness) is the only cause for a soul/spirit to go to hell because they choose, they reject the free gift of God that he offers to all who are humble enough to admit their need for the cross and the blood of Christ Jesus (forgiveness). No religion needed. Just faith, faith plus nothing. We are not sinners because we sin, we sin because we are sinners.
@@paulgemme6056 You just called inktransfercomics a liar and yourself a mindreader.
Wow!! Thank you for presenting this, Matt! I really appreciate hearing these more in-depth studies about why we leave the church; it helps me to realize I'm not alone!
I remember when my son was born, literally 20 minutes after he popped out I found myself in the multi faith room at the hospital.
I stood looking at the various pieces of religious iconography around the room and thought to myself "do I honestly believe any of this?" I looked around again and for the first time in my life I was honest with myself amd I walked out of the room.
Interesting. Although my wife had been an atheist for years and years, she said that, for her, the final nail in the coffin for religion was when our daughter was born. She said she took her first look at our baby and thought, "There is no way that this beautiful, innocent child is 'born in sin.'"
Hey Matt, how come there's not a choice to send you a "super thanks"?? I was always an atheist but until I was 36, (17 years ago), I thought I was the only one and I didn't know how to answer the bombardment of nasty questions that christians asked me. You were a tremendous help in helping me realize that I wasn't weird for not believing all of that crazy nonsense!
Thank you Matt for being such a helpful voice on my journey to becoming a better critical thinker! 💚🙏🏼
small world. I've watched some of your videos. I love ASMR
Yet you still use praying hands emoji?
@@seraeirian2 Reconciliation comes when one admits their sinful condition and acknowledges their need for God's Grace and Mercy. Unbelief which is caused by one's foolish pride (self-righteousness) is the only cause for a soul/spirit to go to hell because they choose, they reject the free gift of God that he offers to all who are humble enough to admit their need for the cross and the blood of Christ Jesus (forgiveness). No religion needed. Just faith, faith plus nothing. We are not sinners because we sin, we sin because we are sinners.
As pretty much a life long atheist, I am shocked that this 10% tithing is a real thing. Do most seriously give 10% of their income, to the church, in America? That's like a whole additional tax. I'm not surprised you get angry about taxes. Stop giving your money to these vultures.....
Really have to wonder why God needs money.
Mormons do, but then I think they are more hard core about it.
@@DocReasonable Strip club. He loves all those 1s that people leave in the silver tray.
@tedferkin, plus they WILL their houses to the church too.
And its a good thing because the Pastor requires the brand new 2024 sports car (and boat).
Matt, before I watch this video, I'd just like to show gratitude. I didn't know who the fuck you were before 7 years ago when deconverting out of religion. It was only after two weeks of lacking belief in any diety that I found your content. It's been nice throughout the years listening to someone who's already been through this shit to be authentic about myself and my life, too.
I will forever appreciate the work you've done for all of us who honestly sought answers but never found them. Cheers!
That’s very sad man… Matt as your standard.. I truly hope you come to Christ. The true Christ
Best way to become an atheist, read the Bible!
They ought to put that on the blurb!
Thank you for doing this one Matt. Very impactful for me
My initial guess going in to this question is that most leave due to younger people in various congregations disliking what their preachers (etc.) are telling them from the pulpit and the lack of empathy from other congregants in the church.
I think that it's just the same thing that kept christianity rolling for so long, only in reverse. When you always hear about some creation story being true, you're more likely to believe that it's likely to be true. I think that's called "the truth illusion" or something like that. But now in the information age the young people are hearing that it might not be true, so it counteracts the truth illusion enough that they are left actually thinking for themselves. And when you are actually thinking about it, those ridiculous old myths look really really stupid
@@EnthusiasticTent-xt8fh science has inadvertently been proving the bible wrong for hundreds of years.
@@EnthusiasticTent-xt8fh If only science could prove the bible right.
Meanwhile christians are still stuck with a flood that never happened, a first couple that never existed and anonymous gospels not written by eyewitnesses.
@@EnthusiasticTent-xt8fh universe was not created in 7 days, the Earth and trees were not created before sun, all of humanity didn't come from only 2 specific individuals,etc. Science has proven a lot of biblical claims to be false.
You can either weasel out by saying that it wasn't literal or turn your mind off and say all the evidence we have is wrong.
@@EnthusiasticTent-xt8fh Wow. That was super fast. 3 massive claims in a single sentence, none of which have ANY kind of support. What a great thinker you must be.
I love seeing compassion as a motivating force for people. It goes against so much of what I see, it gives me more hope
Not enough of them are leaving in my opinion they're still causing issues in society with their consistent prejudice against non believers and other religions on top of it. The stuff they say to me for even suggesting there might not be a god is amazing.
The pedo issue may be perceived as being over and happened a long time ago. They may not be aware of how widespread it is and how it's still ongoing.
Do you know God is the principle of all things that you see, otherwise those things will not be there??? Come back to Christinity and to God (wh9ch exist no matter what you modern godsless alone weak people think) and stop be frustrating and obsessed with us and what with we believe, because you are in into a worthless stupid BS modern Cult that offer nothing... Stop be a godless alone weak obsessed frustrated person and come back to God, because soon or later he will ask you why you did not believ ein me, after I created you, and you will be very much weak and fuc... up, ok? (by the way you know very well every Goddenier is a lier, so do not be a lier as well, and come back to God, you will retake the dignity you lost when you lost him)...
Here's a series of reasons;
1) it's a toxic environment. Imagine being shamed and ridiculed for the way you're dressed, what music you listen to, what you read that isn't the Bible, what you draw, what you write, and so on by a community that is supposed to be loving.
2) they are big on fear mongering.
3) they are controlling
4) they don't care about anyone, let alone care to hear problems and they bump off the problems by saying "Talk to God about it"
5) they make a big deal about people leaving. It's like "that person is abandoning God. I'm going to Hell because of them!"
6) they're narrow-minded
7) they're greedy
8) they are narcissistic
And the list continues
I’m not an American so my reasons for leaving- not even sure I was ever a part, to be honest- don’t matter for this but for me, I loathed everything about Christianity.
I did believe in god, I just hated him. So I was a misotheist as a child, became an atheist around age 11 when it became clear that the concept was bankrupt and could not stand.
The reason that first made me doubt was the problem of evil, as a child: there were kids, my age, starving in Africa and praying did nothing- I’d tried- and god did nothing either. So god could not be all good and all powerful…and also seemed to hate black kids in particular.
That last part came out very hilarious. God is quite the racist huh?
Excellent content, Matt. Thank you.
I think a large part of people leaving religion in general is that the locus of information has changed. For previous generations before the internet, it was the religious "experts" who asserted information about religion and most people were too ignorant to examine the foundations of the claims being made. Now, anyone can do deep investigations and evaluations of the alleged evidences presented. When more and more people find they are not being hoodwinked by the fabrications and unsupported claims of religious apologists, there is less credibility given to those people.
10 mins in - great talk already Matt
The #2 reason is a pretty common one, and there's an old joke about it. Why do people leave church? Because of the people who stay.
I became disillusioned early on when I was told, "Don't question God!" And when I was old enough to read the Bible for myself, I simply could not reconcile with the absurd claims and contradictions of the Bible.
Enjoyed your presentation. Informative and well thought out comments. Should do this more often.
I am now 70y and only acknowledged (at least to myself) that I really am an athirst within the last 10 years. However, if I look back at through my life, I see the process beginning when I was 12-14. My parents were SBC missionaries so we were at church a lot. I remember going home from a service or another with my father. For some reason, I was thing of Communion/Lord's Supper and ask my father about the 4 understandings:
1. Substantiation (the belief that the bread and wine actually become body and blood),
2. Symbolic (the belief that the Eucharist is only symbolic and that the bread and wine remain bread and wine;
3. Co-Substantiation (While the presence of god is truly real, the elements undergo no change in their substance;
4. Communal: There is no actual transformation and that the Eucharist is only and expression of community.
Dad explained them to me (not the last one since that is a relatively new concept). Then I asked: But how do we know we are right and that others are wrong? His reply: "Because God told us soo." But that was not really a satisfying answer. I did remain a god-believing Christion but not sure how to "prove" that others were wrong. Those types of questions continued to grow until I finally started to ask myself if god was really real. I finally found my answer: "No".
Anything mankind writes is by mankind . Anything mankind teaches is taught by man . Anything mankind says is said by man . None of the above is from our creator so anything you follow telling you it is true is A LIE .
My own journey was actually reading the Bible for once cover to cover. I then also started taking interest in learning about cosmology, astronomy, physics, and a myriad of other sciences that made my lifelong skepticism all but confirmed.
I don't know if you have time to read every comment, but if you do I hope you find mine interesting.
I was raised in The Salvation Army in Australia by my mother, who was an officer (the Salvo's version of a pastor) until she was fired from the church, essentially because she became a widow (I was about 1 year old and my brother was around 3 years old). I didn't fully understand this until after I had already left the church, so it didn't really factor into my thoughts for leaving, and there are some complicated reasons for this happening, but basically it occurred due to (at the time) the patriarchal hierarchy of the Salvation Army at the time of my father's death (mid 1990s), and the church's belief that my mother needed to be at home to support her children (and the best way for that was to cease her primary source of income, apparently).
The thing that first lead me towards agnostic atheism was, in essence, a mixture of 'scriptural issues' and 'exposure to differences'. I had a high level of trust in my mentor in the church, and he claimed to have literally spoken to angels (including an archangel), exorcised demons, and various other supernatural experiences. I started as an indoctrinated theist, became an agnostic theist, and eventually became an agnostic atheist while I tried to grapple with these conflicting versions of reality. My interpretation of faith changed until I felt that, based on scripture, I should know that god exists, and the 'faith' aspect was trusting in that god: after all, my mentor 'knew' god existed, the people in the bible 'knew' god existed - why should I have to simply 'assume' that god existed?
Eventually, I came to the conclusion that either: a) my version of god was wrong, so I had no reason to continue believing; or b) I had done something which barred me from being accepted by my god (i.e. an unforgiveable sin like blasphemy against the holy spirit), so I had no reason to continue believing. While I now consider myself an overall agnostic atheist, I am a 'gnostic atheist' about my specific head-canon version of Christianity, which I determined to be false (since my beliefs were falsifiable).
I would say the main thing I have gained since leaving the church is the removal of guilt and shame, and the main thing I lost was music (because I was in the church brass band). I encountered the Atheist Experience through UA-cam during my transition from theist to atheist, although I think it was towards then end where I was already pretty close to leaving the church. I felt comforted to hear from other people who had had similar experiences in leaving the church.
When I was still a Christian, I heard lots of logical arguments against my beliefs, but all of those could be easily disregarded by responding "god defies logic". It was really only when I used the bible to disprove my own beliefs that I really stopped believing.
This a bit of an abrupt conclusion, but I wanted to say thank you for your past, present, and (I presume) future contributions to logic, Matt.
Well, to compensate, you can play jazz!
Because God/Jesus Christ/Holy Spirit is not like man. His ways are much higher than our ways. He is infinite we are finite. The fact that evil/sin runs rampant and is getting worse every day shows how sick (sinsick) man really is. There is no such being on the planet as an ex-born-again believer (true Christain), only ex-religious people. You were caught up in religion, but you never knew God/Jesus Christ (born-again, born of the Spirit, born from above).
@@paulgemme6056 oh, Paul. You never learned how to reason.
Your first three sentences are silly. You define your god as infinite. Then you say your human mind is incapable of understanding the infinite, because it is finite. Then you claim to understand your god. You are quite confused!
Next you claim the evil in the world increases. This is an empirical claim, yet you offer no evidence. Steven Pinker’s 2011 book: the better angels of our nature: why violence is decreasing in this word uses actual evidence to show that the world is less evil than it was. One reason is that human behaviour is more governed by rational thought than by irrational thinking, including religions.
Your last two sentences are an example of the “No True Scotsman” fallacy.
I’d bet that you were homeschooled. You were certainly brainwashed.
You can’t reason worth beans.
I’m staggered that ‘truth’ and ‘intellectual honesty’ polled so low. I never wanted to turn away, but I couldn’t believe it anymore. And evolution and science was a MAJOR part of that.
I know there's been a steady decline according to yearly Pew polls, but it's quite clear that Covid made a lot of people think, "Gee, it's kinda nice not wasting time in church every Sunday."
We no longer believe in fairy tales!
The reason why , is the same reason that they are leaving MANY ideologies. It's the internet that is the reason. People are no longer limited to what they are told, and now they can do research for themselves. Reading a book like "The Power of Myth" by Joseph Campbell and even peripheral study of world religion shows the truth immediately, to anyone willing to see it.
True, but the internet is a double-edged sword. It's also full of lying evangelists and imams.
Do you know God is the principle of all things that you see, otherwise those things will not be there??? Come back to Christinity and to God (wh9ch exist no matter what you modern godsless alone weak people think) and stop be frustrating and obsessed with us and what with we believe, because you are in into a worthless stupid BS modern Cult that offer nothing... Stop be a godless alone weak obsessed frustrated person and come back to God, because soon or later he will ask you why you did not believ ein me, after I created you, and you will be very much weak and fuc... up, ok? (by the way you know very well every Goddenier is a lier, so do not be a lier as well, and come back to God, you will retake the dignity you lost when you lost him)..
Love the work, Matt. Please keep it up 👍
This makes perfect sense. It became clear to me during my time in the church that community was at or near the top of what motivated parishioners. Aside from the people who explicitly said so, there was plenty of evidence by virtue of the attendance at events that occurred outside of sermons. Some people (especially senior citizens) have very little else going on in their lives, so church gives them community and a sense of purpose. I honestly saw very little in the way of piety.
Great analysis Matt
Do you know God is the principle of all things that you see, otherwise those things will not be there??? Come back to Christinity and to God (wh9ch exist no matter what you modern godsless alone weak people think) and stop be frustrating and obsessed with us and what with we believe, because you are in into a worthless stupid BS modern Cult that offer nothing... Stop be a godless alone weak obsessed frustrated person and come back to God, because soon or later he will ask you why you did not believ ein me, after I created you, and you will be very much weak and fuc... up, ok? (by the way you know very well every Goddenier is a lier, so do not be a lier as well, and come back to God, you will retake the dignity you lost when you lost him)...
Why?
Because it's nonsense.
Why now?
Because information is easier to access globally.
Do you know God is the principle of all things that you see, otherwise those things will not be there??? Come back to Christinity and to God (wh9ch exist no matter what you modern godsless alone weak people think) and stop be frustrating and obsessed with us and what with we believe, because you are in into a worthless stupid BS modern Cult that offer nothing... Stop be a godless alone weak obsessed frustrated person and come back to God, because soon or later he will ask you why you did not believ ein me, after I created you, and you will be very much weak and fuc... up, ok? (by the way you know very well every Goddenier is a lier, so do not be a lier as well, and come back to God, you will retake the dignity you lost when you lost him)
Personally, I think a lot of the reasons given for becoming an atheist are unreasonable. To say, "I no longer believe in god because of the way christians act" has nothing to do with whether God exists or not. This is why a lot of christians think atheists identify this way as a rebellious act against God, when in reality, we only seek the truth.
Matt, I love the beard, dude!! +3 beard of awesome! Keep going with it, brother.
Its difficult to know when i stopped believing. I was born to a very Christian family. Went to christian schools through college, church weekly, bible studies, youth groups, i was in deep. I think it was some time around my 12th birthday. Maybe i never truly believed in the first place. However i did not come out as an atheist until i was 25. I think being sent to religious schools had quite a bit to do with my deconversion, as i spent so much time studying the actual doctrine of what i was supposed to be subscribing to. One of those things where the more you dig, looking for answers, the more questions you come out having. And when you press those who are supposed to be the experts in the doctrine, the only thing they can point to is "thats why its called faith". I guess as soon as i had the ability to have my own rstional thought things started falling apart. However my decision to leave the church had more to do with me no longer being able to subject myself to the mental torture of pretending to be something im not to please the people i care about.
Matt, excellent talk, thankyou.
A couple things I feel though, they don't follow any of the other laws, and I thought it was just the sacrificial laws that ended, so why follow the hate gays part? Just icky to them?
Also, I think the biggest thing missing after my decon is seeing loved ones again, after death.
I do plan to support you as soon as I'm not behind every month! I'm sorry to hear of your broken window. As I'm bound by a teenage vow, (and I'm 65!), to not lie, I couldn't use my insurance when my cars' back windshield exploded from heat! Luckily, I got it fixed at a Mexican shop for $50.00! 20 years ago, though.
Any way, love your studio, and these videos! And, Arden, too. 👍💙💙💙🥰✌
👋🏼😄 Hi Laura!! Long time no see. Good to see you’re still around.
I agree with your statement about missing the fantasy of seeing loved ones after death. For me it was finding something to fill in the space where the incessant fear of doing/thinking anything sinful used to be. It took time and therapy. It was good to see you hon! 😊✌🏼
Paragraphs, please.
Some of us have ND brains and it strains us to try and read comments without paragraphs.
@@Andrea.1tree Great to see you too! I wasn't too much worried about 'sin', it wasn't much mentioned at home. My dad was more religious and luckily not around much. Navy, then divorce. Mom pretty progressive. I'm so sorry you had that. I wasn't taught much of 'purity, shame' culture. LOL, oooh, I was...shameless! I really was rough on my poor Mom. And though mostly all talk, (very lucky, now looking back). Degenerate band guys even were pretty damn gentlemanly! I put myself in a lot of danger, but didn't even understand that until grown. It seems to me, the girls in religious homes were usually the ones more often abused! I only had one bad ,(real bad) incident at around 13, but was 'out' for the worst, and my friends' Mom handled me well. She, with my begging, didn't tell my Mom. So, I think I avoided a lot of trauma. I think your experience might be worse. Internal fear is corrosive and leaves scars. But, maybe it's why you became such a beautiful human. Sorry, I ramble when heading to sleep, lol, don't know why. 🙄😁😘💙💙💙🥰✌
@@laurajarrell6187 😘 Lots of therapy, and self care takes care of the past. Sleep well my dear. 🤗💙
@@WhoThisMonkey Hi! I’m not sure what an ND brain is, but I’m sorry if reading my lengthy comment was difficult for you.
I hope you can find some tools to help work around that issue. Best wishes. 😊
Go on with your great work Matt.
Your fight against religious ignorance and pride is irreplaceable.
Wow, excellent video and so timely. They may not be leaving completely, but they have taken a step away and if they can find something else that aligns better with their morality and beliefs that step away will be permanent. Small steps.
I remember the first time I hate watched an atheists debate. I was fine until they (Hitchens or Harris?) brought up religion's acceptance of slavery - and it floored me that they would maliciously strawman my "good book" like that. I was ok that they didn't understand it, but how dare they lie about it like that?!?!? So I immediately looked it up to PROVE how wrong they were.....
Y I K E S !!!
And not only were they spot on, but they downplayed the cruelty to be polite. So I read more to see what else was glossed over in literally decades of Sunday school and bible study classes. Let's just say it was like a nuclear bomb going off in my brain.
Reading that thing at face value is something that you can only do once. After that, send it back to the bronze age where it belongs.
I'm still embarrassed for how I used to be a bible thumper without actually reading it (fully) first or knowing what exactly I pushing.
It is somewhat shocking, yet not completely surprising, to see "hiding abuse" so low on the list. We're really good at defending our in groups, when I was a catholic it was very easy to dismiss those cases as just fringe ones.
Interesting discussion. I agree that the passage of time after de conversion may make a big difference to people’s outlook. For example, having always been atheist and growing up in a community where atheism is normal and accepted, the idea of needing some kind of church, to socialise is quite strange. If I wanted to socialise, I’d consider lots of possibilities, none of which would be a church. If, however, you’ve grown up in a community where church is how you socialise, then you probably wouldn’t consider just going to the pub and chatting to some strangers.
Once again thanks Matt.
I took a intro to philosophy class that exposed me to critical thinking that led to my deconstruction
A big conclusion from this study and many others is that we are survival machines with a big drive toward empathy, not truth seeking machines. If we are asked to believe in any worldview, whether reasonable or otherwise, we will tend to do so if it does not affect our survival and sense of empathy. If most of us are asked to profess or fake a belief that seems to enhance our empathy for our community, we will frequently do so. But if we see that a belief is hurting our community, we will work against it, whether the belief is probably true or not.
Got to admit. I enjoyed listening to this. Thank you.
Strange that "lack of evidence" isn't listed as a final reason for leaving.
Moral arguments against god's existence are fallacious, because god could exist and also be a jerk.
We miss you Matt.
Miss me? I haven't gone anywhere
@@SansDeity AXP might disagree.
Their loss.
@@SansDeity Debatable ;)
It does kind of make sense that an emotional response would be more likely to get someone out initially because that is what most hold onto religion for is the emotional. You are absolutely right Matt there has to be more after that initial response, and that is where a secular community can come in, i.e., RFR and the Secular Therapy Project.
My problem with it is that it is a weak foundation. If one deconverts for emotional reasoning, then they can just as easily relapse for the same reasons. It really sounds like the secular variant of 'church shopping'. Rather disappointed in these conclusions tbh.
I agree that that kind of foundation is weak, but a community has to be their to fill in the cracks and answer questions, which Matt is amazing at doing. Mine was an emotional response at first anger about feeling lied to and all that, but Matt and the other Line hosts and guess helped me in my intellectual growth.
I have read the Bible - and that was all it took for me to leave Christianity. God is unworthy of my worship.
I was raised Southern Baptist, got into New Age/New Thought, became Atheist, and briefly dabbled back into a weird deliverance cult-like version of Christianity. Then like you, read the Bible from cover to cover for a second time and went right back to Atheism.
My mother started paying attention to what the Church had to say about gays when my brother came out of the closet, every time a priest or bishop made terrible declarations against homosexuals she would get so angry and sad.
With time, and the help of the continuos attacks and declarations against homosexuals, she started changing her mind: "maybe it's these priests that are evil because I know my son is not a bad person". The child abuses and the hiding of those abuses confirmed her thoughts.
And that was it for her religious beliefs.
The Bible has anti-gay passages for men, but did it ever say anything about lesbians? Or is that just an implied sin?
Romans 1:26
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones.
Women are unimportant in the bible so who cares? It was all about men and the heirs they need in a very tribal patriarchal society.
It would be nice to see Secular Social & Community Centers take over abandoned churches.
Christians leaving Religion can still get a sense of community, social connection & support.
Personally, I would donate to them because they would help people and society more.
It would be great if *Sincere* pastors, bishops etc.. that are leaving Religion can be retrained and have their community experience put to use running these centers.
As much as I loathe Religion, I still had good memories of some bishops that did a lot of work and genuinely cared, so this transition to Secular Social & Community centers can be an easier career fit for them and they get to keep their livelihoods.
Most churches in my country were sold off as homes (a lot of renovations obviously).
I think 1 became a dog vet.
I left the church (Southern Baptist) when I was 17, about the time I graduated high school, though I had been moving in that direction for at least two years. That was a long time ago, long before all the revelations about child abuse. The things that moved me away from church was the lack of intellectual integrity and the fact that so many adults were Sunday only Christians. The thing I enjoy most about having left the church is freedom. The thing I miss most is community.
The tower of Babylon story began my conversion to being an atheist.
That is such a funny story. A tower, because they thought the stars at night were the heavens! And clearly this (little) man from Earth God, clearly sits on the clouds 😄
in 1972 my family would of put CofE even though we never went to church or believed or talked about religion in anyway, i always say I was raised Atheist
Hello Matt, I hope you are doing well. I want to thank you for your debates and thought provoking videos. It has greatly helped me reevaluate my faith and understanding of the Bible. I am finally free of the cult mindset of the church and it refreshing to find freedom from them.
Thanks for everything Matt ❤
NPR had an interesting episode on this recently. Didn’t sound like as many people were reasoning their way out of belief. Apparently a lot of people said they would still goto church if they had more free time. Or they left for certain preaching or politics or abuse.
Thats sad. They should be advocating for the removal of churches.
If you're not reasoned into your belief, and the vast majority are not, then there's not much reason to believe you will reason yourself out of it. Childhood indoctrination is far more effective at instilling the habit of faith than it is providing sound reasons to believe. I don't think that's too surprising.
The video comes to similar conclusions.
I would love to say because more people realize these cults are a scam. But probably not.
Do you know God is the principle of all things that you see, otherwise those things will not be there??? Come back to Christinity and to God (wh9ch exist no matter what you modern godsless alone weak people think) and stop be frustrating and obsessed with us and what with we believe, because you are in into a worthless stupid BS modern Cult that offer nothing... Stop be a godless alone weak obsessed frustrated person and come back to God, because soon or later he will ask you why you did not believ ein me, after I created you, and you will be very much weak and fuc... up, ok? (by the way you know very well every Goddenier is a lier, so do not be a lier as well, and come back to God, you will retake the dignity you lost when you lost him)...
This is perhaps the most enlightening thing I have ever seen/listened too on religion. Now it all makes sense.
Thanks Matt! After being hardcore Catholic for 55 years, about eight years ago my wife, and our four children all left the church and none of us believe in god anymore. Best thing we ever did. Loving life and have our search for truth and people like you Matt to thank for helping us open our eyes.
Two main issues for me, it's false and immoral. In addition to being absurd and unbelievable.
I have never and will never understand why people believe in fairy tales. Maybe children, but so called adults? OMG!!
When Creationists come on the line, I don't know why the Hosts don't say: Wait, you believe in Adam & Eve? YOU believe in a female talking snake?? Tell me more about this, is it a cartoon or you really believe it? LOL
Instead they discuss evolution with the CREATIONIST LOL That always make laugh. Um they aren't ready for science yet, they are ready for preschool guidance.
It's the way the human brain works, it protects older information against newer information at all cost.
Children learn logic thinking around the age of 13 and if religion manages to indoctrinate children before that, their brain will defend religion against all logic for the rest of their lives.
It requires a massively disturbing experience before anyone can overcome his indoctrination, that's why the numbers of people getting out of religion are only very small, while the numbers of atheists accumulate over generations from believers dying out and getting replaced with young people who didn't get indoctrinated.
This is why some people (including me) say, religion is child abuse.
How do you know its a fairy tale you will know when you die many people have had nde's.
@@user-jz6to8md3c Maybe because religion is actually far worse than any fairy tale, it is simply plain impossible to be true on first view.
As long as you keep the definition of what your god is totally vague one can't say for sure whether or not such a god exists, but as soon as you get just a little bit specific about what your god shall be it becomes impossible.
I.e. almighty and all knowing are mutually exclusive, you cannot know what's gonna happen tomorrow and still have the power to change what's gonna happen tomorrow and ... poof ... all Abrahamic religions go out of the window because their god cannot exist.
That's why religion cannot exist without indoctrinating children before they reach the age of reason, once they mastered logic thinking they can remain religious only if the religion sits deeper in their brain than the logic does, kids who didn't get in touch with religion before their 13th bday are immune to religion for the rest of their lives.
@@user-jz6to8md3c if we will know after we die, then THAT's the time to believe!
You wouldn't want people believing before they had evidential reason to I hope?
Imagine if people believed before having a reason, even a God would laugh at that.
As that's called gullibility.
I left christianity because im a gay man. And I was traumatised for years as a teenager growing up in the AOG Pentecostal church. I discovered all the fallacies and what science had to say about the universe and life later on. And now I see that my mind gravitates towards history, biology and the other sciences. And the further I go twenty or so years later thanx to you Matt with your debates and the knowledge I’ve accumulated. My belief that there is an Abrahamic God seems false to me. Based on reasoning you bring and others. And what the scientific data seems to be showing. I hope this ramble helps someone.
Thank you. I was a Fundamentalist Christian when my 16 year old son came out as gay. That was the beginning of my deconstruction. I celebrated and participated in his wedding to his husband several years ago. Now I am fully Atheist.
I'm getting into Christianity. Not because I believe it all.
But because it feels nice to be spiritual in some form and because it offers a great package of support, friendship, self development, advice, music, motivation, positive thinking.
I cannot find that in one place anywhere else. Can find parts of that in different places. But not in one place.
I left Christianity due to the dearth of evidence for it’s truth.
Do you know God is the principle of all things that you see, otherwise those things will not be there??? Come back to Christinity and to God (wh9ch exist no matter what you modern godsless alone weak people think) and stop be frustrating and obsessed with us and what with we believe, because you are in into a worthless stupid BS modern Cult that offer nothing... Stop be a godless alone weak obsessed frustrated person and come back to God, because soon or later he will ask you why you did not believ ein me, after I created you, and you will be very much weak and fuc... up, ok? (by the way you know very well every Goddenier is a lier, so do not be a lier as well, and come back to God, you will retake the dignity you lost when you lost him)...
Could you kindly review these texts? I believe it contains valuable information from which you can benefit regarding life, God, and creations.
Topic: A loving God would never reject a sincere heart searching for direction from its creator!
"O My servants, I have forbidden oppression for Myself and have made it forbidden amongst you, so do not oppress one another. O My servants, all of you are astray except for those I have guided, so seek guidance of Me and I shall guide you, O My servants, all of you are hungry except for those I have fed, so seek food of Me and I shall feed you. O My servants, all of you are naked except for those I have clothed, so seek clothing of Me and I shall clothe you. O My servants, you sin by night and by day, and I forgive all sins, so seek forgiveness of Me and I shall forgive you. O My servants, you will not attain harming Me so as to harm Me, and will not attain benefitting Me so as to benefit Me. O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to be as pious as the most pious heart of any one man of you, that would not increase My kingdom in anything. O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to be as wicked as the most wicked heart of any one man of you, that would not decrease My kingdom in anything. O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to rise up in one place and make a request of Me, and were I to give everyone what he requested, that would not decrease what I have, any more that a needle decreases the sea if put into it. O My servants, it is but your deeds that I reckon up for you and then recompense you for, so let him who finds good, praise Allah, and let him who finds other than that, blame no one but himself."
"Whoever chooses to be guided, it is only for their own good. And whoever chooses to stray, it is only to their own loss. No soul burdened with sin will bear the burden of another. And We would never punish ˹a people˺ until We have sent a messenger ˹to warn them˺."
Note:
Utilize your brain to uncover life's purpose. Foster clear thinking by reflecting alone, free from external influence.
....because it predicts it in the Bible as the great apostasy before Jesus returns?!? Oh, wait, that's just another bullshit story....
Yes
If your feelings lead you into a belief, it makes sense that your feelings would need to lead you out of a belief. I mean what else do we have but our feelings? Feelings are not facts...which many people seem to forget.
2:13
I know people who say they're catholics simply because they were baptised, that's the religion of their parents and grandparents, and "I'm not jewish or muslim". But when I asked them if they believed in god, they said no. Some people default to whatever religion they grew up around even if they don't believe. I know it's not the same, but it's almost as if some people treat their religion in a similar way as an ethnicity.
I love the nones!
The "nones".😂😂😂
Best joke in a while.