He also enjoys setting fires. He's a very conflicted man. You can see how indifferent he is to his victims, as well as how he wants to destroy all those who "lack beauty". War is a tool to him, but aside from achieving his goals, he also enjoys using it to take revenge on the world (which is the reason for his self-loathing, as he ends up taking on the form of those people he hates, with the appearance and behavior of his father).
@@Camellia_1999 I dont think he does. He just has to appear that he enjoys setting fires because thats what everyone else (which he needs to achieve his goals) at that time values/respects.
I love that in a show that is basically the Olympics of character development, Thorfinn's arc is that he literally doesn't develop. Like that's purposely written as his "journey" thus far. How masterful is that?
It's equally as risky as it is masterful. Props to the author for literally not letting the main character grow for 24 episodes straight (around 60 chapters in the manga) and audience still respecting the story, philosophical themes, politics, character arcs and one of the best written antagonists in any media shows the risk was just worth it..
@@jatinchanchlani8982 the whole twist is that the people who have experienced character growth are Askeladd and Canute. The hostage turned king, and the bandit turned "hero".
THANK YOU for taking in the score and the lighting of when Askeladd schools Thorfinn. It all served well to make you feel the shame Thorfinn was feeling and the misplaced admiration he had of Askeladd. We all thought it would have been sentimental that he'd found a mentor or a father figure in him when he's the furthest thing to that.
A season full of excellent episodes, this is one of my favourites. I especially like the call back and comparison, of how near the beginning of the series, around episode 5, "The Troll's Son", Thorfinn actually contemplates killing Askeladd in his sleep. He sneaks into his tent with his knife... but he doesn't, because he thinks about his father, and he considers warriors honour... Askeladd is aware of this, at the time. Now much later, we learn more about Askeladds youth and experiences. I don't like to lightly compare trauma in a way thats dismissive, but I do enjoy exploring how and why it happens and the pressures and environment surrounding it. Both characters were traumatised at a young age, but... its interesting to point out until his fathers death, Thorfinn had a pretty healthy and relatively normal childhood. A father, mother and sister, in a small community. His father was admirable ethically, and morally. Thorfinn didn't really have to struggle too much. On the other hand... Askeladd as a child, had it pretty rough, with his mothers deteriorating health/mental health, having to work so young, and look after his mother at such a young age, absent father, hearing able an abstract heroic figure that never actually came... Its pretty rough situation. Its easy to buy into the idea, that Thorfinn inherited certain ideas and ideals from those around them, even if some of them arguably were simplistic. Where as Askeladd, didn't really have much, beyond a very idyllic abstract heroic figure from his mothers stories, to go off, he probably had to be more self reliant and develop his own ideas around ideas and ideals, like "honour" and "ethics". Both were different ages when they experienced a defining traumatic event (Thors death, and Askeladds mothers mental snap and almost death at the hands of his biological father). I bring this up, because I think it is true that Thorfinn is a bit one dimensional. His growth was stunted much earlier, emotionally, mentally, he is... his trauma basically robbed him of a proper childhood. It shouldn't be a surprise he struggles in this particular way. Especially at his current age too, without a lot of that emotional turmoil and baggage not being addressed. One of my favourite things about Vinland Saga as well, is how much depth the writing and scenes have, because none of what.I wrote is heavily empathised or anything. Its up to us the readers/viewers to piece together bits and pieces (and also why I think your guys reaction is one of the best, with your after episode talks.)
Now, after knowing Askeladd's backstory I'm looking back to moment, where Thorfinn tried to kill him in his sleep and Askeladd was waiting what's about to happen. Would he actually stop kid there, or maybe he would've let himself be killed there thinking of it as karma for what he's done. Askeladd killed his father and then became his father just because he could spending decades of his life being embodiment of everything he hated. And Thorfinn probably could've beaten him in a fight by now, but he's not trying to actually kill him. He's subconsciously terrified of Askeladd actually dying because what is his life then. So he keeps asking for this duels to justify to himself why he's still there
Its mainly that hes too emotional to fight well We will see that probably in season 3 when he says wow that actually works he spoke to someone the way asklad did they responded exactly as thorfin did and he stopped him the same way When he actually died I think Thorfin had a nix of feelings he didn't even understand himself He wanted him dead but this is all he's known for 11 or 12 years Possibly stalkholm syndrome to some degree Also self guilt thinking it was his fault though it wasn't
I just love the parallel between Thorfinn who couldn't bring himself to kill Askelladd in his sleep because it wouldn't be "honorable", while Askelladd just finished the job with his father right away. Normally, this kind of behaviour would be seen as cowardly, but this show actually makes it seem reasonable. It just shows how this oh so important warrior code is just a bunch a baloney.
If Thorfinn hated Askeladd as much as Askeladd hated his father for what he did to his mom Thorfinn would've killed him in his sleep in the most "dishonorable" manner possible. What actually happens is that Thorfinn doesn't actually hate Askeladd, he doesn't realize it fully yet but really hates himself for being too weak to help his father (as Thorfinn was caught as a hostage by Bjorn). And Thorfinn also doesn't realize there isn't a "clean" manner to murder someone for the reasons he wants to kill Askeladd, murder is murder and he has a completed warped interpretation of what he thought Thors as a warrior. All he has in his head is dueling.
I think message of Askeladd speech is a bit different. Him killing his father and a slave woman similar to his mom - it's him "becoming a Viking", someone he hates, inheriting his father's legacy and continuing doing exactly what his father was doing. (They even look alike). Askeladd in " Edge of twilight " Speech was probably reflecting on how he spend decades of his life being embodiment of what he hates, until he decided to find Canute and actually do something meaningful in his life. And now he sees Thorfinn wasting his life the same way
When he comes to Askalad his emotions control him so he doesn't fight well He has no interest for grand schemes just his revenge Askladd is telling him if you want someone dead be underhand about it Thorfinn is holding on to doing it how he sees honourably He was tempted to kill him in his sleep when he was little but decided against it But he cant control his feelings to best Askladd fairly
I love how this show defeats your expectations, you expect Thorfinn to be the one improving and finally defeating Askeladd, but as we see, it's the opposite, it's Askeladd who's becoming better and better at reading Thorfinn so much so that in their last duel he doesn't even need a sword to defeat him
I love Askeladd he’s a great character very clever ,charismatic and strong but he’s so freaking cruel and hypocritical so is impossible to feel bad for him And I know is an anime but when you compare thors with Askeladd it feels like an insult
The past of thors wasn't explored much but from the bits we have seen, he might have been just as cruel & cold. He's definitely killed as many people as thorkell if not more. Before ylva was born, he used to distance himself from his wife, his emotions & was just a killing machine.
Watching Askladd I think all he was telling him was to do it underhand..when hes asleep Askladd got away with it Thorfinn wouldn't It might be more at Canute To be underhand but get away with it by outwardly playing the game
Askeladd is the kind of guy who fights fire with fire even though he hates fire & wishes the world would have been better off without fire.
He also enjoys setting fires. He's a very conflicted man. You can see how indifferent he is to his victims, as well as how he wants to destroy all those who "lack beauty". War is a tool to him, but aside from achieving his goals, he also enjoys using it to take revenge on the world (which is the reason for his self-loathing, as he ends up taking on the form of those people he hates, with the appearance and behavior of his father).
@@Camellia_1999 I dont think he does. He just has to appear that he enjoys setting fires because thats what everyone else (which he needs to achieve his goals) at that time values/respects.
There's really nothing like Vinland Saga.
I love that in a show that is basically the Olympics of character development, Thorfinn's arc is that he literally doesn't develop. Like that's purposely written as his "journey" thus far. How masterful is that?
It's equally as risky as it is masterful. Props to the author for literally not letting the main character grow for 24 episodes straight (around 60 chapters in the manga) and audience still respecting the story, philosophical themes, politics, character arcs and one of the best written antagonists in any media shows the risk was just worth it..
@@jatinchanchlani8982 the whole twist is that the people who have experienced character growth are Askeladd and Canute. The hostage turned king, and the bandit turned "hero".
This episode is special
THANK YOU for taking in the score and the lighting of when Askeladd schools Thorfinn. It all served well to make you feel the shame Thorfinn was feeling and the misplaced admiration he had of Askeladd.
We all thought it would have been sentimental that he'd found a mentor or a father figure in him when he's the furthest thing to that.
I can't wait for the upcoming episodes !!!
A season full of excellent episodes, this is one of my favourites. I especially like the call back and comparison, of how near the beginning of the series, around episode 5, "The Troll's Son", Thorfinn actually contemplates killing Askeladd in his sleep. He sneaks into his tent with his knife... but he doesn't, because he thinks about his father, and he considers warriors honour... Askeladd is aware of this, at the time. Now much later, we learn more about Askeladds youth and experiences.
I don't like to lightly compare trauma in a way thats dismissive, but I do enjoy exploring how and why it happens and the pressures and environment surrounding it. Both characters were traumatised at a young age, but... its interesting to point out until his fathers death, Thorfinn had a pretty healthy and relatively normal childhood. A father, mother and sister, in a small community. His father was admirable ethically, and morally. Thorfinn didn't really have to struggle too much. On the other hand... Askeladd as a child, had it pretty rough, with his mothers deteriorating health/mental health, having to work so young, and look after his mother at such a young age, absent father, hearing able an abstract heroic figure that never actually came... Its pretty rough situation. Its easy to buy into the idea, that Thorfinn inherited certain ideas and ideals from those around them, even if some of them arguably were simplistic. Where as Askeladd, didn't really have much, beyond a very idyllic abstract heroic figure from his mothers stories, to go off, he probably had to be more self reliant and develop his own ideas around ideas and ideals, like "honour" and "ethics".
Both were different ages when they experienced a defining traumatic event (Thors death, and Askeladds mothers mental snap and almost death at the hands of his biological father). I bring this up, because I think it is true that Thorfinn is a bit one dimensional. His growth was stunted much earlier, emotionally, mentally, he is... his trauma basically robbed him of a proper childhood. It shouldn't be a surprise he struggles in this particular way. Especially at his current age too, without a lot of that emotional turmoil and baggage not being addressed.
One of my favourite things about Vinland Saga as well, is how much depth the writing and scenes have, because none of what.I wrote is heavily empathised or anything. Its up to us the readers/viewers to piece together bits and pieces (and also why I think your guys reaction is one of the best, with your after episode talks.)
Now, after knowing Askeladd's backstory I'm looking back to moment, where Thorfinn tried to kill him in his sleep and Askeladd was waiting what's about to happen. Would he actually stop kid there, or maybe he would've let himself be killed there thinking of it as karma for what he's done. Askeladd killed his father and then became his father just because he could spending decades of his life being embodiment of everything he hated.
And Thorfinn probably could've beaten him in a fight by now, but he's not trying to actually kill him. He's subconsciously terrified of Askeladd actually dying because what is his life then. So he keeps asking for this duels to justify to himself why he's still there
Its mainly that hes too emotional to fight well
We will see that probably in season 3 when he says wow that actually works he spoke to someone the way asklad did they responded exactly as thorfin did and he stopped him the same way
When he actually died I think Thorfin had a nix of feelings he didn't even understand himself
He wanted him dead but this is all he's known for 11 or 12 years
Possibly stalkholm syndrome to some degree
Also self guilt thinking it was his fault though it wasn't
I just love the parallel between Thorfinn who couldn't bring himself to kill Askelladd in his sleep because it wouldn't be "honorable", while Askelladd just finished the job with his father right away. Normally, this kind of behaviour would be seen as cowardly, but this show actually makes it seem reasonable. It just shows how this oh so important warrior code is just a bunch a baloney.
But he did respect Thors
He hates the Danes and their attitude even though he's done the same
If Thorfinn hated Askeladd as much as Askeladd hated his father for what he did to his mom Thorfinn would've killed him in his sleep in the most "dishonorable" manner possible. What actually happens is that Thorfinn doesn't actually hate Askeladd, he doesn't realize it fully yet but really hates himself for being too weak to help his father (as Thorfinn was caught as a hostage by Bjorn).
And Thorfinn also doesn't realize there isn't a "clean" manner to murder someone for the reasons he wants to kill Askeladd, murder is murder and he has a completed warped interpretation of what he thought Thors as a warrior. All he has in his head is dueling.
I think message of Askeladd speech is a bit different. Him killing his father and a slave woman similar to his mom - it's him "becoming a Viking", someone he hates, inheriting his father's legacy and continuing doing exactly what his father was doing. (They even look alike). Askeladd in " Edge of twilight " Speech was probably reflecting on how he spend decades of his life being embodiment of what he hates, until he decided to find Canute and actually do something meaningful in his life. And now he sees Thorfinn wasting his life the same way
We're almost there guys! Season 2!🤯🔥
The finale approaches...
I don't think I'm ready for this, and nor are they
Damn, I caught up! I've been bingeing all of your Vinland Saga reactions. Now I have to wait 😞
When he comes to Askalad his emotions control him so he doesn't fight well
He has no interest for grand schemes just his revenge
Askladd is telling him if you want someone dead be underhand about it
Thorfinn is holding on to doing it how he sees honourably
He was tempted to kill him in his sleep when he was little but decided against it
But he cant control his feelings to best Askladd fairly
This is probably my favorite episode.. At least tied with episode 24, 19, and 6.
I hope you guys react to season 2 right after the finale
13:06 from thorfinss pov his life started there... its sad
I love how this show defeats your expectations, you expect Thorfinn to be the one improving and finally defeating Askeladd, but as we see, it's the opposite, it's Askeladd who's becoming better and better at reading Thorfinn so much so that in their last duel he doesn't even need a sword to defeat him
He's too emotional to fight well
Askladd was playing him psychologically
We see Thorfinn do the same to someone later
The outcome is exactly the same
Just finished the first season... man.
I thought this was never going to get uploaded. 😭
👍👍👍👍
I love Askeladd he’s a great character very clever ,charismatic and strong but he’s so freaking cruel and hypocritical so is impossible to feel bad for him
And I know is an anime but when you compare thors with Askeladd it feels like an insult
The past of thors wasn't explored much but from the bits we have seen, he might have been just as cruel & cold. He's definitely killed as many people as thorkell if not more. Before ylva was born, he used to distance himself from his wife, his emotions & was just a killing machine.
Watching Askladd
I think all he was telling him was to do it underhand..when hes asleep
Askladd got away with it Thorfinn wouldn't
It might be more at Canute
To be underhand but get away with it by outwardly playing the game