Minimum Interval Take Off (MITO) launch of 9 B-52s and 5 K-135s in under 5 minutes.
Вставка
- Опубліковано 12 бер 2013
- General Curtis LeMay would have been so proud! This was part of Strategic Air Command's annual Global Shield exercise circa 1985 as flown out of Griffiss AFB, New York. I participated in six of these exercises between 1984 and 1991 as a Tanker (KC-135) Navigator, and I only threw up on three of them. ;-) The ride, particularly if you were well back in the pack, was unpleasant (to say the least), as the wake turbulence from the preceding aircraft was horrendous. Target spacing was just 12 seconds between like aircraft, and 15 seconds between dissimilar ones. Thankfully, I had great pilots, and I was pretty darn good at picking up the aircraft in front of us on the old APN-59 Radar, and keeping us separated. Best job I ever had!
- Авто та транспорт
There is “nothing” as impressive as an entire wing of BUFF’s scrambling and levitating into the air 10-15 sec apart. Back in the day these guys knew they had at best 20 min before warheads so every scramble they made it count. I am humbled by their dedication.
And even after they lifted off, there was no assurrance the Soviets wouldn't target points off the ends of the runway (as well as the field itself) in order to destroy them as they departed the vicinity.
I’m flying the second to last B52. Exciting takeoff with greatly reduced visibility due to the water injected engines in all the leading aircraft.
And, it's always exciting to feel the plane keep rolling to the right while you have the yoke full left!
It all seemed perfectly normal at the time. Only years later does it seem crazy. :)
I have stupid question for you. What do you do if get a «No go» light, bird strike or whatever that will stop you from getting air born? Do have take off power on until passed the Vr so you do not hinder the aircraft behind you?
@@TomScottMorgan30What was the Tail number?
@@JeffreyWilliams-dr7qe You'd have to ask Chris Warner above. I flew tankers, not Buffs.
@@TomScottMorgan30 All the same source. Thank you!
That turbulence had to be VIOLENT. Amazing thing to be able to do with anything near the consistency and safety record you all managed in SAC.
It wasn't so much violent as it was HUGE. It would be most worrisome when shortly after you broke ground you'd notice the plane slowly descending and rolling right while the pilot would have the yoke pulled full back into his chest with full left aileron cranked in. That uncommanded "roll and sink" could continue for four or five agonizing seconds before it stopped. It felt like we were momentarily all passengers, and nobody was controlling the plane. The vortices off the wing tips of leading aircraft were very challenging to overcome for the following aircraft. If you could successfully avoid those vortices, then it was just a bit bumpy. It was obviously "doable", but you had to be prepared, aware, and aggressive in your corrections as things could get out of hand quickly. Heavy "A" model -135's were the most challenging to stay safe with. The later "R" model -135's had more thrust, a better climb rate, a larger horizontal stabilizer, and they eventually moved their aircraft separation targets out toward 30 seconds instead of the 12 seconds we aimed for in earlier days. We also used a technique involving "fan" headings, in which each aircraft would try to fly a pre-briefed heading say five degrees different than the aircraft ahead of them. So, for example if the runway heading was 320, then lead might fly 325, number two 320. number three 315, number four 310, etc.
@@TomScottMorgan30 I've seen a lot of videos with the 30-45 second spacing... very few like this with the true minimal 12 second spacing. I think 'worrisome' is a heck of a good word for wingtip vortices 12 seconds back off a B52 haha
By the third or fourth aircraft those big ol' flexy wings and the spoilers on the BUFFs were flapping like a gooney bird.
@@Hide.the.Salami That’s the TRUTH
"Air Disasters" has an episode about a tanker that had both engines ripped off one wing and the ones on the other wing barely hanging on due to wake turbulence from a passing tankers, I think during Desert Storm. They followed all passing protocol to the "T" but an unobserved strong wind took the turbulence straight to the victim!
In the 60s my father was stationed at Eglin AFB in Florida. I was in my teens and rode my Honda 50 all over the base. On several occasions I was thrilled to be able to stop my bike at the end of the runway near the King Hanger off the road behind the blast deflector and watch as the B52 bomber wing was scrambled. I remembered the big guys taking off about 10 or 15 seconds apart but all of the videos I have watched they take off at much longer intervals. I thought I must have been wrong but this video shows I was probably right. Anyone that talks about how awesome a space shuttle launch was should have been there when they scrambled the whole darn wing.
The air force changed the interval times between launches for an increased safety margin. I can't remember what year my dad told me that took place.
I was a kc-135 crew chief (1976-1980) stationed at Pease AFB after multi jet engine tech school. I finished my enlistment at the tanker detachment at Travis AFB. Getting engine run certified and running engines was a real pleasure. Crew chiefs pulled a lot of alert duty and went TDY with the plane. I was never bored. This video brings back a lot of memories
Thanks for all you did, Norman! Crew Chiefs put in some mighty long hours keeping these old planes in good enough shape for us to take them airborne and break them again! It was a vicious cycle, and you all kept everything working no matter what. Much respect!!
@@TomScottMorgan30Thank you but I enjoyed working on tankers. Pease AFB was no fun in the winter. Deicing, pushing snow, and heating water for the old J57 engines were the most challenging. Life was much easier at Travis AFB with no snow and higher temperatures.
Shorty after take off had you looked down you would've seen our house. Both my wife and I grew up in Rome, NY. After 50 years we to decided to move and now live in Lake Wales and sail on Crooked Lake. Thanks for the B52 memories...I still hear them overhead :-)...
I, too, was a KC-135 nav. I was "drafted" into the KC-135 after my last assignment in AC-130 gunships in 1973. The memories of being in tankers is one that forever be remembered with great fondness. There was nothing greater feeling than flying across the "Pond" without a GPS or navigating over the polar region; just using celestial means to get there. I never flew with the PINS {Palletized Inertial Navigation System). Remembered my very young Boomer mooning a BUFF, after refueling, during an ORI! The alerts, the ORIs, the TDYs, were all part of being in SAC. I spent 5 years at Loring AFB and for a South Texas local, it was a shocker. Those were brutal winters but I did learn how to ski. I retired in 1990 and became an MD80 ground school instructor at American Airlines for 24 years. So, I managed to stay in the aviation field after retirement from the USAF.
Rudy, thanks for sharing!
I have lost track of most of my fellow KC-135 Navigators. It seems "life" gets in the way of so many things. But our common experiences will forever bond us together in many ways.
By the time I got into the -135's the PINS was gone, and the Litton INS/DNS system was in place. Unfortunately, the accuracy of the INS gyros degraded quickly with use and time so that by the early 1990's the drift rate on those units often exceeded the manufacturers standards. We developed all sorts of tricks to keep the INS "close", but they were not always successful. The INS would only accept an update to its position as a function of the time that it had been operating. So, if it was 5 miles off after an hour in NAV mode, and you updated it with a corrected position, it would only accept a fraction of that update because it refused to believe it could be five miles off after only one hour! The damn INS had an ego! Fun times! Fortunately, when within 100 miles or so of a TACAN, we could TAC/MIX the INS, and it would "believe" more of the TACAN than it would our hand-jammed radar fix coordinates. I did have the experience of crossing the Pacific from Guam to Kadena with no INS, and no doppler. I used celestial and the winds off the weather sheet to guestimate drift angle and ground speed. I coasted in within 15 miles and 5 minutes. The Aircraft commander bought me breakfast the next day. ;-)
I flew B-52's in the USAF and after my time in the service, I flew many missions in a KC-135, flight testing the INSTALLED Inertial Navigation and Doppler system that replaced the need for the Palletized Inertial Nav (PINS) (1978-79). A great airplane and I hope those inertials helped ease concerns over the navigation problem.
I’m sure I must have sat in one of your Mad Dog recurrent ground school classes Rudy. Your name sounds familiar. I had a couple of stints on the 80 in that time period so I’m sure our paths had to cross at some point. I hope your retirement is going well
Pete
This was the real deal!!!! There's nothing like getting your eardrums blown apart with this awesome noise from these airplanes. The "screaming" J-57 turbojets on both the B-52Gs and KC-135As here were very evident with their "water-injected" take-off sequences. There was so much smoke. Whoever must've filmed these airplanes taking-off, must've blown out their eardrums!!
Probably one of the most awesome vids of the heavies that I've ever seen. Thanks!
I too was at Griffiss AFB NY between 1985 to 1989 as a crew chief on 62-3521 she was a A model then till later she followed me to Grissom AFBR as an R model. I really do miss those A's specially on MITTO ground shaking smoke-filled runway what a sight to see thanks for the video
Thanks for bringing back some memories. We lived at Griffiss twice during his career and we watched many MITOs from that exact spot. As great as seeing the ships take off from that end is, it was absolutely devastating when from that vantage point, the birds would taxi out in front of you and almost sit there quivering as the power came up and slowly inch forward under clouds of black smoke. Pretty awesome for a 10 year old.
Thanks for the video and thanks for the records lookup process.
My dad participated in these excercises as well he was a kc 135 navigator as well!
I did 2 years there at the Griff. 1987-1989. SPS. I loved watching a KLAXON. We had a few “generations” when I was there. Never fun for a new Airman. Guarding Wonder Woman’s plane for 12 hours. Glad I did it! 🇺🇸🫡
Heavy forever, 42nd Bomb Wing, 68-71 Line mechanic, always on the line or in the hanger and loved every minute of it
You got it done Joseph! Thanks for taking good care of the jets - those of us who followed benefitted from your hard work.
Ironically, it was SAC's willingness and ability to fight that kept the peace.
SAC Motto: "Peace is our Profession".
The idea was to be so capable and so competent that nobody could imagine attacking us without suffering devasting losses. It worked.
My brother was a radar navigator on LURE 75 and was killed on April 11th, 1983 on Square Top Mountain in Utah. I visited the site last week. What a chilling and surreal experience. Love you always brother. Fly high.
Hi Doug. What a small world. I lived next door to the widow of the aircraft commander of Lure 75 in Warner Robin's GA - her name was Pam. She was devastated by the loss of her husband Don, and had quite a struggle to regain her balance. We lost a lot of good people in training. The generals insisted that we would fight the way we trained, so our training was very realistic - and included significant risk. Limits were pushed, and risks were taken. Sometimes we learned valuable lessons and became more capable. Occasionally, while striving for excellence, good people died. The crew of Lure 75 were among the best.
@@TomScottMorgan30 Thank you Tom
🫡🇺🇸
I, too, was a tanker nav between '77 and '82 at Carswell in Fort Worth and, of course, my required northern-tier sentence at Minot, ND. Thanks for this video, I was never a part of a MITO. I do remember three things from CCTS at Castle: 1) my instructor told me, with a choice between the attache-sized bag or the huge bag, take the small one because either way you're going to fill it up so make it easy on your back; 2) in one of the restroom stalls there was a Kilroy-type cartoon that said, "Be Alert! The Air Force needs more LERTS"; 3) first day the instructor was orienting us and soberly said, "Look, I know you probably don't want to be here in SAC. Yeah, I can tell you from experience that SAC sucks. But ... a suck for SAC is a blow for democracy." My first Atlantic crossing was in '78, during the day, DR's all the way to the Azores shooting sun lines every 20 minutes, pre-INS (even pre-palletized INS). When we got there and the co-pilot got a VOR/DME fix, we were 7 miles from my DR position.
Thanks for sharing, Steve! Looking back now, we did some amazing things using some pretty rudimentary procedures with old equipment all being performed by very young crews. By the time I started flying 135's we did have the INS. Our saying was: "Follow the INS and go wrong with confidence!".
Toward the end of my flying career, the INS units were very worn and tired. For overland flying, a Tacan-mixed DNS was more dependable than the INS because the INS was programmed to not believe too much of any updates based on how long it had been in NAV mode. So, for example, if it was 7 miles off after 2 hours, it would not accept that it could actually be that far off in just two hours - so it would only "correct" a mile or three. The DNS was like a puppy dog - it believed every update you gave it. Of course, that was a double-edged sword. Many a DNS landed in a different country than the rest of the airplane. Hah!
As a kid growing up in the 60s, Dad was stationed at McCoy AFB, Orlando Fl. During the Cuban missile crisis, these brave souls would be fully alerted weekly and sometimes twice weekly. One cell airborne 24/7, one cell idling one the ground, one cell on hot cocked alert and the 4th moving up to alert. When the horn blew, forget about seeing anything, (cart starts), hearing anything, (deafening roars), or even thinking for over 45 minutes as the defenders took to the sky. We were less than 200 miles I believe north of Castro's front yard. God bless them and their boss, General Le May, they stood up to and stood down the threat. Who would have thought that 22 years later I would become an F-16 crew chief? Kept Vipers in the air for 30 years and wouldn't trade it for anything. I like to think that we made those before us proud.
I was a boomer in the 70's and can attest to the unpleasantness of the ride if you in the back of the pack. But it was pure exhilaration and I wouldn't have traded my job for anything.
...Ah yes! The exhilaration of feeling the plane roll violently to the right while the pilot has the yoke twisted full left... and yet that right roll continues! You yell "bank angle" across the cockpit as your loaded tanker swings past 30 degrees - but your call is pointless as ALL the left alerion in your world is already dialed in. So you just sit there and watch as the pilots grimace, and you pray. Somewhere near 40 degrees of bank your deep swing stops, and slowly ... too slowly ... the heavy beast begins to respond to all the "lefty" control inputs ...and the right wing begins to rise! But, this is no time to let out a "sigh of relief" as you dutifully call out "..110 seconds water!" (...meaning that in about ten seconds, your water augmentation will be done, and you are about to loose 4,400 lbs of thrust, whether you like it or not.) And on cue, the water runs out - just as promised. The pilot pushes the nose down to maintain a sustainable airspeed. You are only 600' feet AGL ...no wait, 575' ...no 550'...CRAP.. But, somehow, at around 500' AGL, the airspeed has climbed back up to 180 knots, and slowly ...too slowly .. you actually climb. You watch the trees seemingly fly by the co-pilots head for what seems an eternity as your heavily loaded tanker struggles upward. You hear your lead pilot advise ATC that this flight of four will be unable to maintain a standard 2,500' per minute rate of climb. Meanwhile, using your ancient radar, you coax your pilot to slide further right so your plane can get above the tankers ahead of you while staying out of their wake turbulence. For the first time since rotation, you look down and see that half your nav gear has slid and/or bounced off the nav table in front you of you. Seeing your plight, the boom operator unstraps and gathers up both your plotter and dividers which managed to land on the sextant stool in front of the electrical cabinet. Yup, it's going to be one of those days..... ;-)
@@TomScottMorgan30 Yep that about describes it. Not to mention the receivers who's goal is to kill the boom operator. Yet, I still managed to enjoy my job.
Thank you for your service. I was an AF Fuels Specialist but medically could not become a boomer. I was still proud to wear the uniform and support our country, if on the ground. :)
@@TomScottMorgan30 thanks for that. I noticed what you described in the clip. I didn't know about the water, interesting. As a kid in the 70's living on Vancouver island under the flight path 4-6 in formation would fly north in morning and a southern pack later in the day. Other planes just a spot in the sky but the 52, you could see features it's so big.
@@TomScottMorgan30 Those we’re the good days of flying. SAC kept us on our toes ensuring that we would get where we needed to be to keep this country safe. I enjoyed my career as a Boom Operator, and my kinship with my Navigators. Thanks for your service. Boom Operator forever. Dreamweaver, retired 1995.
A nice tribute to the G models, watched an ORI, MITO at Ellsworth. There from 1976 to 1979, great memories
I was a Tower Controller at Grand Forks for 3 1/2 years in the early 80's. These lannches were even more impressive in person! I have a Global Shield 1983 "flush" I filmed with a super 8 camera that I'm trying to find and have developed.
Tom, I was also a crew member on a 135 but it was in the mid 70's. Looking at this video really nothing changed from then, loud and smoky... lol. Stationed at Plattsburgh where we had FB-111's so our mito takeoffs were not so bad with wake turbulence. I had two experiences with mito takeoffs with B-52's and your right, lots of turbulence but being 5th in a 5 tanker mito was no picnic..
Looking for guys who see this video who were in the 380 ARS or 310 ARS. Like to get in contact with some of you guys.
Damm I miss crewing the KC 135 in Altus OK, I knew I was making life time memories. Now retired we were real SAC any time anywhere!
Brian Talbott when were you at Altus I was IFR maintenance 75-78 on KC135.
@@heribertawells9297 I was stationed there from 1985 -1990
Been a while but certainly brought me back to my service at March, Anderson, and U Tapao!!
Thanks for posting. Now I can show my young whippersnapper grandson just what the Old Man used to do!
Awesome video Tom! I just finished a joint project for the USAF and Navy a few months back involving the T-1A Jayhawk, which is the primary training platform for students that will be entering either airlift or tanker operations. My role was to conduct functional check flights prior to and after the installation of the Navy’s new (CSO) Combat System Operator hardware/software training package. The flying was great and presented some unique and challenging situations.
John
Soooo, I"m guessing a rejected take off is out of the question! Those MITO departures are impressive as hell for sure.
Actually, there were procedures established to handle that. The aircraft aborting would call out on the radio their abort, and which side of the runway they were moving toward (pick one!). If you were ahead of the aborting aircraft, you continued. If you were behind the aborter, you executed a sympathetic abort (you aborted too) until you either heard the aborting aircraft call clear of the runway - or could see you were clear. (...not easy as the runway enviornment was often covered with smoke and steam) There was also a SOF (Supervisor Of Flying) in a radio equipped car on the airfield to assist with keeping the crews aware of the situation and to call out for specific actions based on their perspective. The KC-135A models were "committed to flight" surprisingly early in their take-off roll at high gross weights,. By the time you hit around 120ish knots or so, you were not going to stop on the runway no matter what. Rotate speed for a fully loaded KC-135A on an average 72°F day near sea level was about 169 knots with flaps 30. Once you passed about 120 knots but were below 169 knots, anything that went "serious wrong" was likely gonna kill you. But of course, the thermals from your fireball would possibly help the guys following you get a little more seperation from the ground. So there was that.😆
Always an Awesome site, loved these launches! I was around for the first GS exercises( 22nd BMW, MAFB, CA.) 🇺🇸
I passed through March AFB several times in my flying days. Being a flat-lands and southeastern US native, I found the surrounding mountains rather intimidating - particularly while flying KC-135A's that could struggle with trying to achieve a 2,000' per minute rate of climb when heavy. (...I did not enjoy looking UP at the ground!) It was beautiful terrain otherwise. ;-)
@@TomScottMorgan30 I never really was intimidated by the " hills" around the " Moreno Valley" ( Riverside county), much however I grew up and flew in Alaska, I do have great memories of those last great years of SAC!!🇺🇲
I flew B-52's. I believe I was in one MITO. Before that I flew a C-47 in Vietnam out of Saigon. THERE the tower would hold us from takeoff, after the takeoff of a B747 or a C-5A because the wing turbulence off one of those big aircraft would flip us over 180 degress. One can appreciate the dangers of wake turbulence in a MITO, when attempting to follow 8 or 9 big aircraft, like the B-52 or even the KC-135, after a MITO takeoff...especially with all the smoke to confuse the issue. Also a warm outside air temperature would be exacerbated by all that engine heat in a MITO takeoff. Takeoff roll distance was greatly extended by the temperature of the air flowing into the engines. ANOTHER factor to worrry about.
Wow!!! If you lived a short distance away, and didn't know that this was a practice scramble, that would have been scary. :) Duck n cover time. ;D
Leave it up! I've got some pilot friends who would love to see this.
This brings back memories of ORIs at BEALE .Thanks for the video.🇺🇸
Griffis.. Now thats one big base. Im from buffalo and when i was little my father was in the 914th NF. We did alot of camping in the Adirondacks and would always stop by the commissary and Bx for a weeks worth of provisions for the trip. Great vid ty
Thank you very much for posting this.
Everyone's gangsta until the 8 engine aircraft wings start forming condensation
Been there. Done that. Assholes and elbows back in the pack.
After all the info I've read, or crash investigation videos about wake turbulence crashes I've seen, watching this makes me a bit uneasy to see. But since there were no adverse effects from these minimal separations on t/o I guess it all worked out! It was a powerful scene to watch, I must say! Incredible!
was a crew chief on a 135 back in 77. I was their the day Aircraft 522 (a kc-135-a) caught fire and burned to the ground. lots of memories
Thank you Tom.
😊
The 416th Bomb Wing!!!
There is just something about these old grainy videos 😂 oldskool
Awesome! ✈️👍
21 Yr Veteran - I'm not to proud to admit this gave me a stiffie! I hated rolling down the runway hoping my tanker didn't have water cutout!
Yeah. That was not good. At least by the time I flew "A" models, the water injection system had been redesigned to give you a fighting chance. The original system was split left and right. So, if it failed you could loose all injection on one side. After a few spectacular accidents, they changed it to an inboard and outboard design. If we lost part of it the remaining system would be symmetrical. Our joke was that at least we would get to choose what we hit as we went down!
The Griff!
Now that is impressive.
My dad worked there in base operations for years
Awesome
To paraphrase a somewhat famous movie character: "Now THAT'S how we did it in the '80's, son!".
I'm sure mom will love seeing it.
Sail on and sail safe!
Mike
I thought the demonstration of the low pressure zone above the wings providing lift and condensing the water vapor was very cool.
I agree. You could tell it was a bit bumpy with the aircraft moving up and down fast enough as well to help create that vapor effect
I used to watch this on the regular from the roof of my parents' house near KMHR (former Mather AFB-SAC/ATC) Then, the 320th bomb wing and 940th ARG would do a MITO practice alert once a month. SO cool, yet scary thinking what they were capable of. On another note, the aircraft, say past #3 had to be flying thru the most ungodly wake turbulence. I'm wondering how many on board needed dental work after a ride like that.
#USAF #B52 #KC135 #SAC
Dental work was seldom necessary. However, nearly everyone needed to wash their flightsuits when they got back.
Hi Tom,
I noticed from your previous video post of Cold Play, you stated that would be starting a new job (good for you). I’m curious, are you still in the industry (aviation), or did you leave the field when you separated from the Air Force? Anyway, I hope your new career doesn’t keep you away from entertaining us with your sailing adventures!! Hope I’m not being to nosey- John
My Father Serve U.S.AIR FORCE Vietnam 🇻🇳 81th Fligher Wing Brentwaters England 🇬🇧Work on Both B-52 Bomber and KC-135 Tranker
Tom Scott, did you know a Tanker navigator named David Kelly? He was us there in NY about this same time, 1985 or so. He was a friend of mine who washed out of pilot training and went back to his old job as Navigator.
I did not know David Kelly - but we may have crossed paths. There were about 3,000 KC-135 Navigators in a typical fiscal year, and it was amazing how small and familiar we were. I did not move around as much as many. I enjoyed the southern (less cold) places and tended to "homestead" there. For example, I spent eight years at Warner Robins AFB GA, and six years at MacDill AFB FL - that's 14 years of my 20 year career in the warm toasty south. 😊
But, there was lots of TDY, training, confrences, bomb comps, PME, and countless other opportunities to meet fellow Navs. I may have met David somwhere along the way, but I don't recall. (Another side affect of aging!) 😊
@@TomScottMorgan30 Thanks for the reply Tom. Oh by the way, what do Navigators do after 20 years in the USAF? Several of my friends were USAF pilots and went to the airlines after the USAF. Just curious.
I was 42 years old when I "retired" from the USAF. So, I moved to where I wanted to live and got a few other non-flying jobs (in my case with local government) and worked until age 59 - and retired for "real'. Now, I go sailing a few days each week and keep up with house, car, boat, and yard maintenance on those days my wife and/or I am not having doctors maintain us!😨 Anyway, there is no more flying -
and I am fine with that. Flying reqires a level of skill and proficiency that would be difficult to maintain at this point in my life. Military flying was very demanding and the scheduling of it was very taxing - it was definitely a young persons job because there is not much sleep, crazy hours, and constant training between deployments. Sailing requires a bit of the same skill and proficiency attributes, but if I screw up and spin out of control in my sailboat, I might be going ...7 knots? (..Much better than "losing it" at 500 knots! 😆) I'm glad I was able to be a navigator as a young man, but I'm also glad that I don't have to do that job anymore. It was very demanding work and mistakes could be disasterous - there was lots of pressure to perform perfectly every time. (One bad day flying could kill you.) I miss it sometimes - but not too much. 😊
@@TomScottMorgan30 I was in SAC when I was in the USAF 1971-75. I was a crew member on a Titan II ICBM. Spent many alerts down in the silos. I was also on an Instructor crew and that took lots of extra time and work. I stayed in only 4 years. I planned on staying in at least 20 but my wife left me for a KC-135 pilot. What a bummer. Thanks Tom
Rob, I actually wanted to be a missle launch officer. However, I applied for an ROTC scholarship, and they said - in order to get it - I would have to be a navigator.
I did not want to make the USAF a career. I figured I would go into missles, get a masters degree while on alert, and leave for a civilian life. But, taking the ROTC scholarship with a "Nav Slot" meant I owed the USAF six years - not four. Other commitments for PME, upgrades, PCS's, plus the Desert Storm "stop loss" left me with ten years in before I could leave.
Since those first ten years went by so fast, I eventually decided to stay in and try to survive for 20 years. I was fine with the service, and enjoyed much of it, but it was very hard on my family, and not exactly what I planned, but it worked out ok. I retired the first day I could - 20 years, 2 days, 4 hours and 16 minutes! 😆
Looking back, my years in the USAF were some of the most satisfying of my life. I enjoyed the incredible amount of responsibility I was given at such a young age, and the amount of judgement and leeway I was given to "make things happen" as I rose through the ranks.
If I had to do it all over again, I would - but I'm not sure my family would approve. 😊
I don't care what anyone says, the 135 is a beautiful aircraft
Agreed! And whenever I see one flying by, I still stop and watch. It looks good from every angle. 😍
Are they capable of doing the same drill today with this many aircraft. Very impressive. Had this been a real event event those camera people would have been vaporized shortly after take off
No.
Today's crews no longer train to this level - Strategic Air Command (SAC) is gone.
Additionally, the "upgraded" navigational systems aircrews depend upon today (..in lieu of a Navigator) require substantially functioning electrical components and systems that will likely be inoperative after the first Electro Magnetic Pulse (EMP) of any nearby nuclear weapon detonation.
SAC Navigators had the ability to use dead reckoning (DR) and celestial navigation (CEL) techniques to roughly accomplish the mission with little more than a compass, clock, sextant, paper charts, and almanac tables.
Today, KC-135's are flown (mostly) without navigators. If today's tanker crews had no electronics or functioning navigation systems, their mission effectiveness rate under nuclear attack would likely be near zero.
I do not know if today's bomber crews are trained in more traditional navigational techniques. But even if they are, I am certain their proficiency is nothing near what SAC crews had in "the day". Times have changed and so have plans for preparing for war. The bombers can now carry weapons that allow them to launch from a far greater distance away from their targets than SAC had. (....So, the number of tanker's needed may be greatly reduced as a result.) And, the ability to reliably launch the "Air Arm" of the Triad while under attack may now simply be too expensive to maintain. They now do what they can with what they've got.
Once the KC-135's are finally "replaced" by the new KC-46, the same quick-response capability you see here (..where crews run out to a "cocked-on" aircraft and launch in minutes) will be lost, too. So, there is no going back. The new systems coming on line are not truly "quick launch under attack" capable like SAC tried to be. The new systems seem to assume WE will control the time and conditions of their use - not an attacker.
We can just hope that all the judgements being made are sound ones. Based on my prior knowledge of how these types of decisions are actually made, I believe they are. (...But, I admit I could be wrong.) As always, time will tell!
I didn’t know they had dead reckoning and celestial navigation incase the electronics went out. Thanks for the info. Also: how would you look at the stars in a kc135? Would you need to go into the cockpit and look up through one of the pilots upwards facing windows?
@internetrules8522 We had a periscopic sextant and two windows either side of it on top of the aircraft and just behind the Navigator seat.
The windows were later removed after a couple of accidents in which they failed at altitude killing a boom operator who was taking a cell shot for the navigator.
@internetrules8522 Also, we didn't just have dead reckoning and celestial in case the electronics went out. We also had it because that was the best way for us to navigate considering we had few electronics. So, we operated that way all the time. DR was the primary means of navigation, and radar was the primary means of obtaining fixes over or near land. Over water or the poles (ice), celestial replaced radar.
Today's 135's fly without navigators except in very rare circumstances or special missions. GPS provides position accuracy within yards. Celestial could get us within miles. ;-)
With that many aircraft taking off that base must have had an ORI in progress and these crews was coming from the alert pad on those birds.
Hi Sidney - this was part of the (then) annual Global Shield Exercise. The actual "alert" aircraft were pulled off alert, de-armed and de-fueled, and then every flyable aircraft on the base (with a crew available) was generated and placed on exercise alert. The aircraft actually used "peace time" requirements in terms of take-off weight and engine out data, and none were close to their EWO ( Emergency War Order) limits - other than the timing between aircraft was the same as in an actual alert launch. With SAC gone, I don't believe this capability is practiced anymore ...so this is truly a piece of history.
@@TomScottMorgan30 That is nice to know and miss those days in SAC so much and the work we did.
@@TomScottMorgan30 Yeah, and they always seemed to kick off those no-notice exercises on a Friday afternoon. A klaxon about lunchtime on Friday? That's the sweet sound of everyone losing their days off. You know those plans you had for this weekend? Wah wah wahhhhh.... (sad tormbones) Good old SAC. It was a great experience and I wouldn't mind being that young again but I don't know if I'd want to re-live those days all over. Lots of pressure and responsibility on some very young people.
I loved having that pressure and responsibility.
It was also pretty funny sometimes - like on my first TDY to Hawaii with a 24 year old Aircraft Commander, a 24 year old Copilot, and me as a 23 year old Navigator,along with a 20 year old boom operator. After landing our multi-million dollar KC-135A tanker in Hawaii (..also carrying 44 passengers in the back), none of us on the crew could rent a car to see the island. ...You had to be 25 to rent a car!
I remember in the early 80s going out to Hickam as a cadet and renting a beater from an NCO. Lots of good times!
"Caution wake turbulence" a phrase unknown to MITO pilots
This video is temporarily "public" to share with mike1lisa1 - no sailing content at all.
Tom Scott
Don't drop the post. Everyone should see this.
My question is, how can they see... following the closeness of each aircraft...the heavy smoke builds up....they must have instruments that they go by in this almost zero visibility.
Safe separation was created and maintained by:
1) The initial spacing - 12 seconds was the target for "like" aircraft.
2) The use of "fan headings" in which each follow-on aircraft turned 10 degrees further to one side than the aircraft ahead.
3) The use of the APN-59 radar (operated by a navigator) who could provide a heading to avoid a conflict.
In large cell departures, it was not uncommon for crews flying several spots back from the lead aircraft to not see the aircraft ahead of them until they were able to climb above them.
The trailing aircraft typically stacked up above the lead aircraft 500' or so. This altitude separation was an additional means of avoiding a collision, and it also made it possible for the navigators to use the radar to track the planes ahead by tilting the antenna downward slightly.
There was no such thing as TCAS, no GPS, and no other means to effectively maintain position. We could use Air-to-Air TACAN to determine distance from another aircraft, but this was very much a crude "analog"system. Once you were inside a mile, it couldn't really display a distance that would be useable to guarantee separation.
Bottom line: The procedures reduced the likelihood of a collision. If "blind" due to smoke, clouds, weather, or darkness, maintaining separation became the primary job of the navigator using a primitive radar.
I bet the air smelled pretty thick and heavy of carbohydrants at teh spot where the camera filmed
No doubt.
This is a temporary post to share with some old friends. I will remove it shortly, and return you to your regularly scheduled sailing content. - Tom
Well I'm the lead one
I wonder if a Soviet laioson officer got to see that, and what he thought?
We were always aware that the Soviets were closely monitoring our exercises. In fact, knowing that they were looking in at us is one of the reasons we did them.
It was important to our leadership team that the Soviets know we could get an entire bomber/tanker wing airborne in less time than it took for either a land or submarine based ballistic missile to reach us. Their full understanding of our capabilities was the key to nuclear deterrence working. While I have no direct knowledge of Soviet military being invited "on base" to witness our exercises, it would not surprise me if this had happened somewhere along the time line of the Cold War. I do know that the Soviets used a variety of means to monitor our communications, aircraft movements, and aircraft generation activities - and we were fine with that. We needed them to know that they could not attack us without getting hit hard themselves. Had they not understood what we were really capable of, the very thing we were striving to prevent may have occurred.
That shit makes me *&%(&$...! The ONLY "rolin Coal" thats COOl....! and lm a Southern...!
Пипец американцы жгут.
Эти парни бесбашенные.
It's just a little steam mixed with exhaust smoke. And we were NOT completely crazy. (The Air Force had us tested!) 😏
Must Be: Kadena Air Base, Okinawa., U.S.A.! Before: President: Tricky Dicky! 1972' U.S.A., Reversion Back To: Japan! :)
Griffis AFB, NY.
I was there, I believe in 72, to deliver and pickup a C-47 from corrosion control and fly it back to Vietnam. At the time there were riots and/or strikes going on at the base. The intent was to get the Americans to leave. OF COURSE we were "severly" delayed in our return to Vietnam due to all that "unrest" at the base!! (cough, cough, cough).
Environmentalists: 👁👄👁
We figured the earth could handle a little jet exhaust and water steam much better than it could cope with nuclear fall out. So, to the degree that SAC prevented a nuclear war, the environmentalists - and all of us - benefited.
@@TomScottMorgan30 I know, I thought it would be funny to see how mad the environmentalists reaction to this though.
@@GraysonMiller69420 The noise, smoke, steam, fuel consumption, fuel dumping, and leakage were all detractors. But the capability the -135's brought to the USAF were - and still are - extraordinary. The planes were re-engined throughout the mid 1980's and are quieter, less smokey, no longer use water injection, and have more thrust which sometimes translates into less fuel dumping when things break. (KC-135's frequently operate at gross weights that exceed their maximum landing weight. So, any emergency that requires an immediate return to the base will often require fuel dumping.) Still not fully environmentally "friendly", but much improved over time.
The USAF tries to minimize the negative impacts where they can. But, ultimately, the mission comes first.
@@TomScottMorgan30 S.A.C is a very formidable force in the U.S. arsenal, I plan on joining the Air Force to become a boom operator on a KC-135 when I graduate high school next year.
@@GraysonMiller69420 For the better, or for the worse, SAC was deactivated in 1992. I encourage you to continue toward your goal of being a boom operator. Hopefully by the time you are enlisted, the KC-46 will somehow miraculously become fully capable and allow the KC-135's to ease into the boneyard. The -135's are great planes, but they are also getting quite tired. Regardless, being a young aircrew member is a great adventure and, if you find you enjoy it, can become the foundation of a great career. Continue to do well in school. Flying jobs in the Air Force are like being in school full time. You are always in class, training, reading, studying. Systems change, procedures change, facilities change, and you will always be studying and learning to keep up. So, keep building those study skills! Good luck to you - our country needs young people like you who are willing to step up and serve. It is not an easy life, but it can be very rewarding. Do your best!
John - I quit all flying when I left the Air Force. I realized when I was at the top of my game in the flying business, that if I didn't fly enough, I would probably kill myself. (..You need to fly at least once or twice a week to stay proficient). So, after I retired, it became "No-fly = No-die!". I live in Charlotte County FL, and there are few good jobs here - no industry of any type. I live here because of the weather, and sailing. Period. My new job is with the county. ;-)
Ditto!
*Cough, cough cough*
I MEAN, WHY FUCK AROUND ?