1st Control (Fly the aircraft), 2nd Confess (Advise the tower of your situation and if you require services) You did both absolutely correctly, no worries. I was asked to recover a Cessna 150 that a student pilot had put down on a busy highway. It required a licensed Commercial Pilot. He had landed amidst traffic and coasted to a stop on a dirt turnaround placed for emergency services. The keys were atop the dash, master switch was off. Nothing dripping from the cowl. I pulled the prop through and got no resistance at the second cylinder. It had thrown a rod and put a good sized hole in the top of that cylinder. The student followed what I was doing, listening to my recital of each step. Understandably, he felt he should go home for a rest. I told him he was welcome to fly my 150 as he had performed exactly what he was taught to do in an emergency. That gave him the confidence to complete his training. Oh yeah, a Chevy Suburban towed me two miles back to home base. I dodged mailboxes and traffic, automotive type, while a policeman driving behind me sang "Come fly with me" over his loud speaker. Some help.
This is one of the best YT comments I've ever had the pleasure to read, and that last part made me laugh loud enough for my wife to hear on the other side of the house... ...made my day!
Pretty remarkable video. Glad you are both safe. The best moment for me was you immediately saying sorry to your gf and showing her some consideration. But by the looks of it, I don't believe she had a clue how close you came to disaster.
Thank you Thomas, for sharing your flight with us. We are taught that WITH ALTITUDE, we typically have time to analyze a problem, aviate, navigate, and communicate. During takeoff, altitude is certainly not our friend. In this case, you stayed ahead of the airplane, and avoided becoming a statistic. Outstanding and well done, sir! Be well, and fair skies.
It's funny, not being a pilot, I could hardly tell anything was wrong. I mean, it looked like you were taxiing and just decided to go back to the hanger. It was so quick. Great job, you didn't look scared at all!
My Vans RV12 has the Rotax 912 engine as well but because RV12 has only on tank there is not a fuel selection knob. Question... In this video, why is the fuel selector pointed to the left?
I have change the fuel pump five times. Around 500h each time. The same problem, at 300 agl significant loss of power. Now i check the pressure every 50 hours... I would like to know what was your problem. Best regards!
First time I’ve heard this perspective. Following the recent rotax fuel pump manufacturing issues this could definitely be a possible cause. We are all suspecting fuel contamination.
First of all very good quick decision to RTO. good job. I'm not sure what happened there but this is my idea: I had a very long argument with another cfi pilot regarding to switching tanks before t/o or runup. It doesn't really say in the POH switch tanks before run-up. It's says select the tank that is more full. So if you fueld both of them exactly the same the taxi doesn't take much fuel but for sure during the taxi you know that the tank you are taxing on is good. U should do the run-up on the same one you we're texting. Only after t/o and getting to a safety alt u should switch the tank+fuel pump. Then if for some reason you have a problem you are in safe position to glide back to the runway. I don't know if you are the owner of the aircraft, but i would shut off the engine right after clearing the runway tow the aircraft and consult with your mechanic. Safe flights.
Iam sure was nothing major sling make an incredible aircraft as do RoTax I to would like to know to though, I think may have been fuel pump issues or something simple but letting everyone know the cause would be appreciated. Learning off others not just our own experiences helps us be better pilots never stop learning or training, chances are it will save you life one day 🙂👍
Enjoyed the video. From the sound of it, you lost power in two cylinders (noticable loss of power, but engine kept running). It happened right at rotation, so change in attitude was probably the inciting factor, since you had full power before this. My guess would be the main needle jet or float got stuck when rotated, and that briefly cut out two cylinders. Bing carbs can have both of these issues. The fact that it ran OK once you bounced it back on the ground is further support for one of these two possibilities and probably remedied the problem. If you were able to download the engine monitor history, the EGT's for the affected cylinders will show if I am right or wrong.
From an outsider's POV, fuel starvation certainly seems the cause (after reading through some of the comments and answers) - especially as the Ts & Ps were all good. After clearing the runway an engine shut down would have been advisable, just in case of a fuel leak and/or to save the engine. Also with the tank selector switch, was that set back to Centre/Both? Im very glad that alls well that ends well and the crew were safe and no harm done.
I'm glad the two of you are safe. I'm not a aviation person but just wanted to say nice looking plane, if it's not too much trouble I would enjoy knowing the make,model, and year of it. I enjoyed the video, thanks for posting it.👍
Thanks Terry. It is a Sling 2 manufactured by The Airplane Factory in Johannesburg, South Africa. I'm not so sure of the year of manufacture on this particular aircraft.
Thanks Thomas for sharing. I myself a pilot experienced three close escapes/ emergency landings. Love flying but always prayed to God for His divine protection over me.
Did you try opening the throttle again on the ground on that tank and then on the right one? Luckily never happened to me in 50h+ in a Sling 2 but by the rough sound of it, I'd be leaning towards water contamination too. Also: TAF issued an information letter (004) on fuel percolation/vapour locks on the 912ULS when run on MOGAS on hot days which also leads to power loss. Good job staying composed and aborting take-off. Cheers from Australia
Once back at the hangar we ran up the engine on both tanks with no issue. I had also thought vapour lock at first but the temperature that day was only 24C so not too warm. Thank you, hope not to have that experience again anytime soon haha!
You also changed tanks for your run-ups just before entering the runway and didn't have the engine running on the left one for long. It's not unlikely that some condensed water in the tank could have been dislodged during the short taxi to line up. Anyway, here's at least a good reason for using the whole TODA!
did you find out anything more... ie did something break or get clogged? what do you mean be fuel contamination/did any of the other rental planes have fuel contam?
Dankie Thoams vir die video. Ek is bly jy en jou meisie is veilig op Moeder Aarde (Terra Nova) en in een stuk. Om te vlieg is nie kinderspelletjies nie. Met die nuwe elektriese enjins van Simens (350Kw) kan so iets nie ge-installeer word, as rugsteun nie? (Sien die YT video van 'n Duitse top sweeftuig pilot.) Motors het veiligheidsgordels en skepe het reddingsbote. Wat het 'n vliegtuig?
There was no definitive reason as all systems were inspected and tested. The aircraft then flew normally post the event. We all suspect that due to the tests producing no discerning results, that it was minor undetectable fuel contamination.
@@ThomasMarrow I aborted a take off last year with a 912 in a flexwing. All seemed to be ok including the 3k mag drop, but on full power it developed a juddering and wasn't reaching 5k rpm. Took it back to hangar, couldn't replicate it, so another student had a go and it happened to him at about 100 feet, so he landed straight back on the runway. Turned out to be a bit of fuel line material that was in one of the main jets, probably down to the ethanol in our mogas?
I had the vary same thing happen to me in Orlando, FL some years ago. Engine failure on take off. Fortunately it was a long runway and I was able to put the aircraft back down on the runway.
You are supposed to strain the fuel from the drain at the bottom of the fuel tanks. This was done as part of a standard pre-flight procedure but no evidence of water or any contamination was found. It could be that the aircraft was just used and washed and the water could still have been floating around in the fuel during inspection.
I had a 2 stroke rotax 582 65hp and lost rpm on takeoff. It was a crack in the primer line of all things. I guess it sucked air through the crack full suction with full throttle.
Well handled, Thomas. I hope when my 912 decides to quit, I handle it as well as you did. What surprised me most about the video is that your air traffic controller issued a conditional line up and wait clearance ("after the aircraft on short final, line up and wait runway 35"). That sounded really odd to me. If the pilot receiving the clearance misses the conditional statement, he could taxi onto the runway under a landing aircraft. It's very easy for the controller to be distracted and not catch an incorrect readback, or for the frequency to be congested making it impossible for the controller to stop the pilot. For this reason, conditional clearances on runways aren't allowed in many parts of the world.
This may be an editing thing... I operate from this airport. The usual sequence of calls is “aircraft XXX do you have the Cessna on final approach in sight?” To which you reply, “affirm, have the Cessna on final in sight”, whereafter they issue the clearance “Aircraft XXX, runway 35, behind the landing Cessna, line up and wait behind”.
Enough said about the engine failure. But: please check your radio call readback with the instruction to line up. When there is landing traffic this is the most dangerous situation, so you will get an instruction with 2x 'behind' in the message: 'behind' ... message ... 'line up behind'. This needs to be read back with both 'behinds', so the controller is sure that you understood. You didn't read it back correctly, and the controller should have repeated the call to you. For the rest: good action to abort. Kept your cool. thumbs up.
@@ThomasMarrow Assuming there was nothing wrong mechanical with the engine then that leaves something solid in the fuel tank clogging the lines, maybe clog fuel filter, bad fuel Or loss of spark from the ignition system coils, LASTLY something blocking the air intake.You need these three things to make a fire in the combustion chamber.Without seeing the engine for myself it is hard to determine the cause.
Mag test was done and there were no signs of fouling. Carburetors not being timed should have given indication during run -up but everything was normal.
Firstly glad you and your passenger are safe, and nice response when it happened. Did you work out what caused the issue? I only ask because I'm about to buy a sling!
Wayne Stables nothing is clear about what happened yet. We believe it could have been water in the fuel however nothing is for sure yet. If we do get down to what caused it, I will definitely keep you updated but don’t let this keep you from buying a Sling. It’s an absolutely beautiful aircraft!
@@ThomasMarrow I have to be honest - I'm going to buy one anyway! Regarding the issue that you had it does sound like some type of fuel contamination so water would be a good guess. I'm definitely going to take more care with my pre-take off emergency briefs from now (I think after a while you stop thinking that anything could happen, which this video shows is far from the truth). Good job posting this, people being honest about these events helps make aviation safer for all of us
Shortly after I got my pilots license in 1990 I read an article that suggested you not change tanks shortly before taking off. The wisdom is that if the new tank is contaminated with water it will take several minutes for the fuel to get to the carburetor which might be when you’re in the process of taking off.
i mean ... you did the right thing even tho you said you were "too confident on the aircraft" you immediatly stopped it and saved what could've been a mess
Just came across this...lucky you can do that, its been a long time since a flew light aircraft. Sadly once I pass V1 I am committed I don't have the rwy left to stop. Nice job being safe
Looked like a throttle acceleration failure rather than a complete engine failure, as you were able to taxi back to the hangar. I don't know whether that Sling model has FADEC, but could it have been a FADEC failure? David Sydney Australia
@@eugeneoreilly9356 not quite right, all rotax and Jabiru can and should run on Mogas, but they actually run on the gas the operator chooses to put in. I know of plenty of Rotax that are being run (rightly or wrongly) on Avgas.
As mentioned in other comments, we believe that it was most likely fuel contamination that caused the loss of power however nothing was confirmed due to the lack of telling signs.
Did you say Tarmac? Is that really a thing? I thought it was just misnomer used by non-aviation people when they are trying to describe the ramp or airplane parking area?
So it's been a year, with the only suspect cause as water in the fuel. I assumed you drained some fuel from the sumps to check for water, but since it occurred right at rotation, is it possible that there is a low pocket in the fuel system, forward of the sump, where water could accumulate, such that upon rotation the water rolled into the sump and caused that momentary interruption of power? During preflight, perhaps push down on the tail to raise the nose, simulating rotation, then re-check the sumps. Alternatively, could switching the fuel valve introduced an air bubble into the system?
Ha! It seems the 912S is very gradually making inroads, as in, I didn't see any comments by other pilots, "give me a Lycoming (or Continental). I have over 2500 hours of totally trouble free 912S operation, though I was a reluctant buyer at first, now I am a huge proponent! And, spending a lot of time of aviation related forums like I do, it's is patently obvious that the legacy engines also have more then their share of problems, and when you consider how long they have been around, that tells you something about them! You most likely had a fuel system related problem, not the engines fault, good job you did!
Good video and good reaction on your part. I normally start, taxi, runup and take off on the same tank (I fly an Experimental so the POH is what I make it). I know folks that make a good argument to do it that way and folks that make a good argument to do it the way you do it (and the way the POH says). Don't let folks that say their way is the only way get to y'all. One thought if it was water in the fuel chances are it was still there in the gascolator, did you check it after you got back to the hanger? Again good job.
I didn't personally check the gascolator and I believe after taxiing all the way back it would have burnt off the remaining water. However, the mechanic did have a look straight and couldn't definitively give an answer as to what the problem may have been.
I did not see you pull carb heat on runup or, as was recently pointed out to me by a cfi, to wait a few seconds to make sure there is no increase after initial decrease in rpm. Also, air looks inverted with moisture.
You did everything right except takeoff after just switching tanks. It takes a while for fuel to reach the engine once switching tanks. If you have a hiccup better to be at altitude. All good now but I am sure in the future you will depart on the same tank you startup on.
Brake the aircraft and apply all the power before taking off for a few seconds. There is a high probability that the problem will appear if you have one. Thus, you avoid major damage to life.
If you watched the full video he did do a run-up and testing of the engine under power before he entered the runway. (it starts at 7:00) I saw him testing and checking the different fuel tanks, testing both the magneto's under power (he mentions 4000 RPM) with the brakes applied, checking pressures and temperatures of the engine, checking the fuel pump, checking the flight controls & flaps, and so on. So as far as I can see he did complete his checks. Sometimes engines can fail, even if you do check everything before the flight; that is just the danger and reality of single-engine planes. I'm just happy that he caught the drop in RPM's early and could abort the takeoff while he was still on the runway. This prime example also makes it clear that: it is always wise to use the full runway, even if your plane can take-off on a shorter part of the runway! I've heard of several pilots that crashed and even died; because they used only part of the runway and had a malfunction during take-off that caused a plane crash.
Newer fuel selectors have a plastic ball instead of the older brass one. Fuel with ethanol will deteriorate the plastic one, hence causing a malfunction.
I am connecting my headset to my phone and recording through Voice Memos on the iPhone. You just need to buy a splitter cable that connects to the phone and also to the headset jack.
A HUNDRED hours, huh? Whew. I know nothing about flying, but I knew a very sly old pilot and he once said to me, "Jack, its not that I'm irritable and bad tempered, the fact is that flight is inherently dangerous. I have to watch everything and the slightest thing I miss could be critical to in-flight failure. The reason I don't fool about in the cockpit is because I don't want to miss ANYTHING. I'm always relaxed when I fly because I know I've done my homework and I am as good as I can be, I know I will cope if there is an emergency. Its my job to be mindful of danger which I know lurks in every corner as well as in plain sight. Never forget, - flying is dangerous. Its always when you fuck around that something happens. If you hadn't a been fucking around you mighta noticed it in time to do sumpin right. So don't fuck about in my airplane, OK. " He's retired by now, but he had over 40,000 hours and no crashes.
@@ThomasMarrow what type of fuel and how could there be water in the fuel if you checked it? Does the ethanol in fuel attract water and the longer it sits the more water?
It was mogas. The aircraft is a training aircraft and has just arrived back from another flight. My idea is that the water hadn’t fully settled at the bottom of the tank yet.
Personally I would never switch fuel tanks just before takeoff or runup for reasons already stated in the comments. You can test just how long it takes to starve the engine by simply turning off the fuel while the engine is running. On the ground of in the air even.
Should definitely switch fuel tanks during run up to test if the mechanical pump is working on that tank it's part of my run up procedures on the Rotax 912 in the Texan I fly
This. 100%. Start on one tank, Change to the other tank once ready to taxi (40Deg oil temp in my 914ULS), stay on that tank until after takeoff and high enough/with options should there be an issue. A Rotax can run a LONG time with the fuel selector off........
Looses the engine at 3 feet settles back down on the runway then rolls down to the end and taxis in under power. For the title and the expectations this was a complete nonevent but I’m definitely glad I didn’t happen at 200 feet and that you’re all right.
The exact same thing happened to me in a RV-12 with the 912ULS. Just after rotation at about 50 feet the engine lost power. Put it back on the runway and taxied back with the engine running normally. We suspected vapor lock due to the high temps that day. Never found anything wrong.
Glad you aborted safely! I'm currently training in one of these too. Flying in an area with either dense buildup or rocky mountains anywhere outside the airfield. I wonder what happened next though? So, the engine was all good after that? Did you or anyone else fly this aircraft afterwards? Did the maintenance mechanic take a look, do a bunch of tests and say "No clue what caused your hiccup, but she seems to be working alright now!" ?
Mechanic did have a look and could not find anything out of the ordinary. We believe what may have caused it was contamination of the fuel. I did a very nervous night nav after this and all was OK and has been since.
Not many places to go on the departure end off 35. Wires, warehouses, trees and the golf course (if you lucky). Good job Miss Rotax coughed when she did.
Fuel tap fiddling? I've made my fair share of stupid mistakes, and then a bit, but if your uploading your experience please tell us the whole story. Thanks.
To the attention of Rotax aircraft engine users! This engine worked for 210 hours and fell apart during the flight in the air. The reason was oil starvation of one crankshaft journal. A preliminary inspection showed that the problem was from the very beginning and the connecting rod at least received lubrication from the crankcase. But it wasn't enough and the connecting rod with the bushing, having received a large gap, collapsed. From beginning of operation with a warm engine, when the speed was reduced to a minimum, the temperature and oil pressure began to rise. By adding speed, everything returned to normal. The ROTAX company does not recognize their marriages!
So on these 64 bings you cant roll the throttle open to fast,they run on vacuum. I can guaranty one carb did not open. roll the throttle slowly on these on take off. I've build them!
Perhaps my throttle movement may have been slightly quick but I don't think it was slammed forward at all. Hard to tell in the video with the camera angle but I will definitely be mindful of this in the future. Thanks for the comment!
Perhaps not applicable here, but consider the following: you made a rather brisk *right* turn with the selector seemingly on the *left* tank. The fuel outlet of a tank is at its (nearly) lowest point. With dihedral, that's most inside, nearest the fuselage. A right turn Slings (ha ha) the fuel in the left tank *away* from its outlet feeding the engine. If a significant amount of air enters the line while unported, bad things happen. Tanks partially filled or with long thin shapes are particularly vulnerable. Riding with, first and last time, with a guy showing me how cool his plane was, he did a long fast sweeping turn onto the runway, pulled the nose way up to show its steep climb and the engine quit cold, almost stalling before getting the nose down. Bonanzas and Barons, especially feeding from aux tanks will do this too. aviation-safety.net/wikibase/133940 Right turn onto the runway, right tank. Left turn, left tank. And/or, go slow.
You handled it very well! Only suggestion I have...if I’m being honest...as soon as I was able to exit the runway, I would have shut down the engine immediately! Looking back, your decision to taxi back to the hangar didn’t mess up the engine, but it certainly could have, big time!!!
Why do those large Rotax engines sound like thrashing machines? Has to be that gear box. Even the 915is sound like that. Looked that up and the Techs say "it AIN'T right and should be corrected.
1st Control (Fly the aircraft), 2nd Confess (Advise the tower of your situation and if you require services) You did both absolutely correctly, no worries. I was asked to recover a Cessna 150 that a student pilot had put down on a busy highway. It required a licensed Commercial Pilot. He had landed amidst traffic and coasted to a stop on a dirt turnaround placed for emergency services. The keys were atop the dash, master switch was off. Nothing dripping from the cowl. I pulled the prop through and got no resistance at the second cylinder. It had thrown a rod and put a good sized hole in the top of that cylinder. The student followed what I was doing, listening to my recital of each step. Understandably, he felt he should go home for a rest. I told him he was welcome to fly my 150 as he had performed exactly what he was taught to do in an emergency. That gave him the confidence to complete his training. Oh yeah, a Chevy Suburban towed me two miles back to home base. I dodged mailboxes and traffic, automotive type, while a policeman driving behind me sang "Come fly with me" over his loud speaker. Some help.
That's quite the story! This should have been a UA-cam video haha
This is one of the best YT comments I've ever had the pleasure to read, and that last part made me laugh loud enough for my wife to hear on the other side of the house...
...made my day!
Nice to read a "good cop" story.
Or simply “aviate, navigate, communicate”
Nah we need the vinwiki format of this story🤣🤣
Pretty remarkable video. Glad you are both safe. The best moment for me was you immediately saying sorry to your gf and showing her some consideration. But by the looks of it, I don't believe she had a clue how close you came to disaster.
Thank you Thomas, for sharing your flight with us. We are taught that WITH ALTITUDE, we typically have time to analyze a problem, aviate, navigate, and communicate. During takeoff, altitude is certainly not our friend. In this case, you stayed ahead of the airplane, and avoided becoming a statistic. Outstanding and well done, sir! Be well, and fair skies.
Fabulous flying. You are an inspiration to all pilots. Instant, calm, correct response. Wow. Subscribed now!
Thank you sir!
You nailed it it’s about flying not dying 🫶😉👍 nice work.
It's funny, not being a pilot, I could hardly tell anything was wrong. I mean, it looked like you were taxiing and just decided to go back to the hanger. It was so quick. Great job, you didn't look scared at all!
My Vans RV12 has the Rotax 912 engine as well but because RV12 has only on tank there is not a fuel selection knob. Question... In this video, why is the fuel selector pointed to the left?
I have change the fuel pump five times. Around 500h each time. The same problem, at 300 agl significant loss of power. Now i check the pressure every 50 hours... I would like to know what was your problem. Best regards!
First time I’ve heard this perspective. Following the recent rotax fuel pump manufacturing issues this could definitely be a possible cause. We are all suspecting fuel contamination.
First of all very good quick decision to RTO. good job.
I'm not sure what happened there but this is my idea:
I had a very long argument with another cfi pilot regarding to switching tanks before t/o or runup. It doesn't really say in the POH switch tanks before run-up. It's says select the tank that is more full.
So if you fueld both of them exactly the same the taxi doesn't take much fuel but for sure during the taxi you know that the tank you are taxing on is good. U should do the run-up on the same one you we're texting. Only after t/o and getting to a safety alt u should switch the tank+fuel pump. Then if for some reason you have a problem you are in safe position to glide back to the runway.
I don't know if you are the owner of the aircraft, but i would shut off the engine right after clearing the runway tow the aircraft and consult with your mechanic.
Safe flights.
What was the problem with the engine in the end?
No conclusion ever came of it. I am sure it was something to do with the fuel system though
@@ThomasMarrow do you still fly this airplane and has the engine performed well since this incident?
Iam sure was nothing major sling make an incredible aircraft as do RoTax I to would like to know to though, I think may have been fuel pump issues or something simple but letting everyone know the cause would be appreciated. Learning off others not just our own experiences helps us be better pilots never stop learning or training, chances are it will save you life one day 🙂👍
Enjoyed the video. From the sound of it, you lost power in two cylinders (noticable loss of power, but engine kept running). It happened right at rotation, so change in attitude was probably the inciting factor, since you had full power before this. My guess would be the main needle jet or float got stuck when rotated, and that briefly cut out two cylinders. Bing carbs can have both of these issues. The fact that it ran OK once you bounced it back on the ground is further support for one of these two possibilities and probably remedied the problem. If you were able to download the engine monitor history, the EGT's for the affected cylinders will show if I am right or wrong.
Will definitely have a look into this. Thanks for the comment!
From an outsider's POV, fuel starvation certainly seems the cause (after reading through some of the comments and answers) - especially as the Ts & Ps were all good.
After clearing the runway an engine shut down would have been advisable, just in case of a fuel leak and/or to save the engine.
Also with the tank selector switch, was that set back to Centre/Both?
Im very glad that alls well that ends well and the crew were safe and no harm done.
Great control and critical decision!!! Also super communication
Why the engine failure ? What was the cause.
I'm glad the two of you are safe. I'm not a aviation person but just wanted to say nice looking plane, if it's not too much trouble I would enjoy knowing the make,model, and year of it. I enjoyed the video, thanks for posting it.👍
Thanks Terry. It is a Sling 2 manufactured by The Airplane Factory in Johannesburg, South Africa. I'm not so sure of the year of manufacture on this particular aircraft.
Kudos on reacting so quickly and aborting! That’s a really good reaction time!
what, specifically caused the engine failure? I am about to buy a. Sling NGT?
I think it was the extra weight of all those GoPros
jesse2006 😂😂😂
I couldn't find any information about why your engine quit. Was it something simple, easy to find and mend?
Thanks Thomas for sharing. I myself a pilot experienced three close escapes/ emergency landings. Love flying but always prayed to God for His divine protection over me.
Did you try opening the throttle again on the ground on that tank and then on the right one? Luckily never happened to me in 50h+ in a Sling 2 but by the rough sound of it, I'd be leaning towards water contamination too. Also: TAF issued an information letter (004) on fuel percolation/vapour locks on the 912ULS when run on MOGAS on hot days which also leads to power loss. Good job staying composed and aborting take-off. Cheers from Australia
Once back at the hangar we ran up the engine on both tanks with no issue. I had also thought vapour lock at first but the temperature that day was only 24C so not too warm.
Thank you, hope not to have that experience again anytime soon haha!
You also changed tanks for your run-ups just before entering the runway and didn't have the engine running on the left one for long. It's not unlikely that some condensed water in the tank could have been dislodged during the short taxi to line up. Anyway, here's at least a good reason for using the whole TODA!
did you find out anything more... ie did something break or get clogged? what do you mean be fuel contamination/did any of the other rental planes have fuel contam?
Dankie Thoams vir die video. Ek is bly jy en jou meisie is veilig op Moeder Aarde (Terra Nova) en in een stuk. Om te vlieg is nie kinderspelletjies nie. Met die nuwe elektriese enjins van Simens (350Kw) kan so iets nie ge-installeer word, as rugsteun nie? (Sien die YT video van 'n Duitse top sweeftuig pilot.) Motors het veiligheidsgordels en skepe het reddingsbote. Wat het 'n vliegtuig?
You're alive that's a great day any day...
Was there ever a post indicating what the reason was for loss of power? I skimmed each of the responses. Did I miss the reason?
There was no definitive reason as all systems were inspected and tested. The aircraft then flew normally post the event. We all suspect that due to the tests producing no discerning results, that it was minor undetectable fuel contamination.
@@ThomasMarrow Maybe vapour lock which can happen with no warning? Just a guess!
@@ThomasMarrow I aborted a take off last year with a 912 in a flexwing. All seemed to be ok including the 3k mag drop, but on full power it developed a juddering and wasn't reaching 5k rpm. Took it back to hangar, couldn't replicate it, so another student had a go and it happened to him at about 100 feet, so he landed straight back on the runway. Turned out to be a bit of fuel line material that was in one of the main jets, probably down to the ethanol in our mogas?
what was the issue and yes u did really well ,,,
I had the vary same thing happen to me in Orlando, FL some years ago. Engine failure on take off. Fortunately it was a long runway and I was able to put the aircraft back down on the runway.
Was it the fuel switch left on left fuel tank and not both?
I thought he had full rotation.....thankfully they hadn't made a full take off. Kool video
arent you supposed to open fuel petcock before flights to check for water in the tank ?
You are supposed to strain the fuel from the drain at the bottom of the fuel tanks. This was done as part of a standard pre-flight procedure but no evidence of water or any contamination was found. It could be that the aircraft was just used and washed and the water could still have been floating around in the fuel during inspection.
I had a 2 stroke rotax 582 65hp and lost rpm on takeoff. It was a crack in the primer line of all things. I guess it sucked air through the crack full suction with full throttle.
did you use avgas or regular car gas?
Well handled, Thomas. I hope when my 912 decides to quit, I handle it as well as you did. What surprised me most about the video is that your air traffic controller issued a conditional line up and wait clearance ("after the aircraft on short final, line up and wait runway 35"). That sounded really odd to me. If the pilot receiving the clearance misses the conditional statement, he could taxi onto the runway under a landing aircraft. It's very easy for the controller to be distracted and not catch an incorrect readback, or for the frequency to be congested making it impossible for the controller to stop the pilot. For this reason, conditional clearances on runways aren't allowed in many parts of the world.
This may be an editing thing... I operate from this airport. The usual sequence of calls is “aircraft XXX do you have the Cessna on final approach in sight?” To which you reply, “affirm, have the Cessna on final in sight”, whereafter they issue the clearance “Aircraft XXX, runway 35, behind the landing Cessna, line up and wait behind”.
So what happened to the engine.
Enough said about the engine failure. But: please check your radio call readback with the instruction to line up. When there is landing traffic this is the most dangerous situation, so you will get an instruction with 2x 'behind' in the message: 'behind' ... message ... 'line up behind'. This needs to be read back with both 'behinds', so the controller is sure that you understood. You didn't read it back correctly, and the controller should have repeated the call to you. For the rest: good action to abort. Kept your cool. thumbs up.
Thanks for the comment and advice Luc. There's lesson to be learned everyday amongst this community and I love it.
You said you switch fuel tanks are you sure you had check for water and also was the fuel gauge working?
Checked for water with a strainer on both tanks. Both tanks were also topped off and full of fuel hence the 5 hours endurance communicated with ATC.
@@ThomasMarrow Assuming there was nothing wrong mechanical with the engine then that leaves something solid in the fuel tank clogging the lines, maybe clog fuel filter, bad fuel Or loss of spark from the ignition system coils, LASTLY something blocking the air intake.You need these three things to make a fire in the combustion chamber.Without seeing the engine for myself it is hard to determine the cause.
Well the whole video and you don’t tell us the cause or did I miss that somewhere?
Yeah your engine picked up a few more RPMS once it started lifting off... starved of fuel...?
Fouled spark plugs? Carburetors not timed properly?
Mag test was done and there were no signs of fouling. Carburetors not being timed should have given indication during run -up but everything was normal.
Was there water found in either carb bowl ? I owe a Sling 2 and the same issue
What was the cause of the lack of power?
Firstly glad you and your passenger are safe, and nice response when it happened. Did you work out what caused the issue? I only ask because I'm about to buy a sling!
Wayne Stables nothing is clear about what happened yet. We believe it could have been water in the fuel however nothing is for sure yet. If we do get down to what caused it, I will definitely keep you updated but don’t let this keep you from buying a Sling. It’s an absolutely beautiful aircraft!
@@ThomasMarrow I have to be honest - I'm going to buy one anyway! Regarding the issue that you had it does sound like some type of fuel contamination so water would be a good guess. I'm definitely going to take more care with my pre-take off emergency briefs from now (I think after a while you stop thinking that anything could happen, which this video shows is far from the truth). Good job posting this, people being honest about these events helps make aviation safer for all of us
saying this would change your mind on buying sling is like not buying a brand of car because you saw one with a flat.
s VP it was a tongue in cheek comment on my part
Shortly after I got my pilots license in 1990 I read an article that suggested you not change tanks shortly before taking off. The wisdom is that if the new tank is contaminated with water it will take several minutes for the fuel to get to the carburetor which might be when you’re in the process of taking off.
*Save yourself some time -* 10:15 *There you go.*
What license do you hold, Red Bluesome? Anything more than an auto license?
I'm not a pilot, but even I get that the debrief is important.
@@aukanmeister 10 minutes of debrief for a 12 minutes video is a bit much.
My hero.
i mean ... you did the right thing even tho you said you were "too confident on the aircraft" you immediatly stopped it and saved what could've been a mess
Just came across this...lucky you can do that, its been a long time since a flew light aircraft. Sadly once I pass V1 I am committed I don't have the rwy left to stop. Nice job being safe
Excellent job my friend! Quick and proper reaction! Hope you find the cause and share the remedy!
Looked like a throttle acceleration failure rather than a complete engine failure, as you were able to taxi back to the hangar.
I don't know whether that Sling model has FADEC, but could it have been a FADEC failure?
David
Sydney Australia
Well done lad, expertly dealt with.. One extra question, is the little lady STILL with you or did she run for the hills after this event?? :D
Hi, What fuel are you running? This is typical of lead build up on the exhaust valve if running low lead.
It was 95 octane Mogas
All Rotax and Jabiru run on Mogas which doesn't have lead since the 80,s.
@@eugeneoreilly9356 not quite right, all rotax and Jabiru can and should run on Mogas, but they actually run on the gas the operator chooses to put in. I know of plenty of Rotax that are being run (rightly or wrongly) on Avgas.
@@simonlowther4967 there's probably some running Lycomings on Mogas.At least it'll shorten TBO.
SO WHAT WAS THE FAILURE!!!! IT WOULD BE GREAT INFO FOR THE REST OF US PLEASE!!
AFFIRMATIVE
As mentioned in other comments, we believe that it was most likely fuel contamination that caused the loss of power however nothing was confirmed due to the lack of telling signs.
@@ThomasMarrow So you sump the tanks and flew unevenfully on next flight ?
stealhty1 yip. Still no problems since then.
What blend of mogas were you using? What was the OAT and what sort of range was CHT showing holding short?
Did you say Tarmac? Is that really a thing? I thought it was just misnomer used by non-aviation people when they are trying to describe the ramp or airplane parking area?
What type of fuel do you use? 100LL or Ethanol free fuel?
95UL mogas
what was the OAT?
What was the actual engine problem? Magnetos, spark pugs, detonation, water in the fuel, intake manifold ???
Edwin Gamez potentially fuel contamination but nothing could be confirmed.
So it's been a year, with the only suspect cause as water in the fuel. I assumed you drained some fuel from the sumps to check for water, but since it occurred right at rotation, is it possible that there is a low pocket in the fuel system, forward of the sump, where water could accumulate, such that upon rotation the water rolled into the sump and caused that momentary interruption of power? During preflight, perhaps push down on the tail to raise the nose, simulating rotation, then re-check the sumps. Alternatively, could switching the fuel valve introduced an air bubble into the system?
Ha! It seems the 912S is very gradually making inroads, as in, I didn't see any comments by other pilots, "give me a Lycoming (or Continental). I have over 2500 hours of totally trouble free 912S operation, though I was a reluctant buyer at first, now I am a huge proponent! And, spending a lot of time of aviation related forums like I do, it's is patently obvious that the legacy engines also have more then their share of problems, and when you consider how long they have been around, that tells you something about them! You most likely had a fuel system related problem, not the engines fault, good job you did!
I feel the exact same way. Thanks for the comment!
Good video and good reaction on your part. I normally start, taxi, runup and take off on the same tank (I fly an Experimental so the POH is what I make it). I know folks that make a good argument to do it that way and folks that make a good argument to do it the way you do it (and the way the POH says). Don't let folks that say their way is the only way get to y'all. One thought if it was water in the fuel chances are it was still there in the gascolator, did you check it after you got back to the hanger?
Again good job.
I didn't personally check the gascolator and I believe after taxiing all the way back it would have burnt off the remaining water. However, the mechanic did have a look straight and couldn't definitively give an answer as to what the problem may have been.
Good work my friend! I wonder if the change in attitude caused the (water?) to move into the fuel system?
Could have been!
I noticed the engine lost power as soon as the nose was came up and seemed to resgain power after the nose came down. Was it carbonator related?
I did not see you pull carb heat on runup or, as was recently pointed out to me by a cfi, to wait a few seconds to make sure there is no increase after initial decrease in rpm. Also, air looks inverted with moisture.
You did everything right except takeoff after just switching tanks. It takes a while for fuel to reach the engine once switching tanks. If you have a hiccup better to be at altitude. All good now but I am sure in the future you will depart on the same tank you startup on.
Run up was conducted on the changed tank. We sat on the tarmac waiting for clearance for a while as well without any hiccups.
You did Great! Stayed Cool as a Cucumber!!
Thanks James!
Brake the aircraft and apply all the power before taking off for a few seconds. There is a high probability that the problem will appear if you have one. Thus, you avoid major damage to life.
If you watched the full video he did do a run-up and testing of the engine under power before he entered the runway. (it starts at 7:00)
I saw him testing and checking the different fuel tanks, testing both the magneto's under power (he mentions 4000 RPM) with the brakes applied, checking pressures and temperatures of the engine, checking the fuel pump, checking the flight controls & flaps, and so on. So as far as I can see he did complete his checks.
Sometimes engines can fail, even if you do check everything before the flight; that is just the danger and reality of single-engine planes.
I'm just happy that he caught the drop in RPM's early and could abort the takeoff while he was still on the runway.
This prime example also makes it clear that: it is always wise to use the full runway, even if your plane can take-off on a shorter part of the runway!
I've heard of several pilots that crashed and even died; because they used only part of the runway and had a malfunction during take-off that caused a plane crash.
Excellent decision making by the way.
Wayne Brown what decision did he actually make? gravity kicked in at 3 feet....
Thomas... so what was the cause.?
KOLB Mark III Classic Build no certainty on it but highest probability was fuel contamination
amazing how training kicks in when you need it.
I suspect the fuel tank selector malfunction...
Potentially, I think we can be certain it was a fuel system issue.
Newer fuel selectors have a plastic ball instead of the older brass one. Fuel with ethanol will deteriorate the plastic one, hence causing a malfunction.
What are you using for recording sound in the cockpit?
I am connecting my headset to my phone and recording through Voice Memos on the iPhone. You just need to buy a splitter cable that connects to the phone and also to the headset jack.
Heyyyyyy Markus on FAGM tower. Did 200 hours in this plane.
Where was the flying? I want my 3 minutes back.
A HUNDRED hours, huh? Whew. I know nothing about flying, but I knew a very sly old pilot and he once said to me, "Jack, its not that I'm irritable and bad tempered, the fact is that flight is inherently dangerous. I have to watch everything and the slightest thing I miss could be critical to in-flight failure. The reason I don't fool about in the cockpit is because I don't want to miss ANYTHING. I'm always relaxed when I fly because I know I've done my homework and I am as good as I can be, I know I will cope if there is an emergency. Its my job to be mindful of danger which I know lurks in every corner as well as in plain sight. Never forget, - flying is dangerous. Its always when you fuck around that something happens. If you hadn't a been fucking around you mighta noticed it in time to do sumpin right. So don't fuck about in my airplane, OK. " He's retired by now, but he had over 40,000 hours and no crashes.
Have you been able to find the cause of the engine power drop?
Icebox ETACCRG not yet but we think it may have been water in the fuel
@@ThomasMarrow what type of fuel and how could there be water in the fuel if you checked it? Does the ethanol in fuel attract water and the longer it sits the more water?
It was mogas. The aircraft is a training aircraft and has just arrived back from another flight. My idea is that the water hadn’t fully settled at the bottom of the tank yet.
I would say ”during takeoff” not after takeoff. But well done!
Personally I would never switch fuel tanks just before takeoff or runup for reasons already stated in the comments. You can test just how long it takes to starve the engine by simply turning off the fuel while the engine is running. On the ground of in the air even.
Should definitely switch fuel tanks during run up to test if the mechanical pump is working on that tank it's part of my run up procedures on the Rotax 912 in the Texan I fly
This. 100%. Start on one tank, Change to the other tank once ready to taxi (40Deg oil temp in my 914ULS), stay on that tank until after takeoff and high enough/with options should there be an issue. A Rotax can run a LONG time with the fuel selector off........
I am interested to know the cause of the engine failure. However, I did notice that there sounded like a slight mistiming of the engine during taxi.
It seems it was a fuel system failure. Potentially contamination.
Looses the engine at 3 feet settles back down on the runway then rolls down to the end and taxis in under power. For the title and the expectations this was a complete nonevent but I’m definitely glad I didn’t happen at 200 feet and that you’re all right.
Engine failure of any magnitude is most certainly not a nonevent, super rare. But yeah the title was a bit extreme in all caps lol.
Is this a light sport aircraft?
The exact same thing happened to me in a RV-12 with the 912ULS. Just after rotation at about 50 feet the engine lost power. Put it back on the runway and taxied back with the engine running normally. We suspected vapor lock due to the high temps that day. Never found anything wrong.
We suspected that at first too. But temps didn't seem to be high enough on the day.
You reacted well, you kept the aircraft straight and stuck it just right. I was expecting worse.
Did the carb ice up?
Temperature that day was +25C. Perhaps it was something to do with the carburettor but I doubt it was ice.
Get a GATTS fuel tester. It will show you and separate water and also show JET-A contamination very quickly.
Thanks, will have a look around for one
Glad you aborted safely! I'm currently training in one of these too. Flying in an area with either dense buildup or rocky mountains anywhere outside the airfield.
I wonder what happened next though? So, the engine was all good after that? Did you or anyone else fly this aircraft afterwards? Did the maintenance mechanic take a look, do a bunch of tests and say
"No clue what caused your hiccup, but she seems to be working alright now!"
?
Mechanic did have a look and could not find anything out of the ordinary. We believe what may have caused it was contamination of the fuel. I did a very nervous night nav after this and all was OK and has been since.
Not many places to go on the departure end off 35. Wires, warehouses, trees and the golf course (if you lucky). Good job Miss Rotax coughed when she did.
Indeed it was a good job that it didn't happen 5-10 seconds later.
Fuel tap fiddling? I've made my fair share of stupid mistakes, and then a bit, but if your uploading your experience please tell us the whole story. Thanks.
Yes please let us know your findings. Thanks.
We think it was fuel contamination. Nothing could be definitively confirmed.
To the attention of Rotax aircraft engine users!
This engine worked for 210 hours and fell apart during the flight in the air.
The reason was oil starvation of one crankshaft journal. A preliminary inspection showed that the problem was from the very beginning and the connecting rod at least received lubrication from the crankcase. But it wasn't enough and the connecting rod with the bushing, having received a large gap, collapsed.
From beginning of operation with a warm engine, when the speed was reduced to a minimum, the temperature and oil pressure began to rise. By adding speed, everything returned to normal. The ROTAX company does not recognize their marriages!
S9 glad it happened THEN, Instead of @ 300 AGL. God bless you both
Thank you for the comment and support. We were very lucky indeed.
What aircraft is that
This is a Sling 2. Manufactured by The Airplane Factory in South Africa.
So on these 64 bings you cant roll the throttle open to fast,they run on vacuum. I can guaranty one carb did not open. roll the throttle slowly on these on take off. I've build them!
Perhaps my throttle movement may have been slightly quick but I don't think it was slammed forward at all. Hard to tell in the video with the camera angle but I will definitely be mindful of this in the future. Thanks for the comment!
@@ThomasMarrow No problem I had to learn this the hard way I was doing a go around an the pilot side carb did not open was forced to set it down.
@@sergesmith2863 Scary stuff!
Every time I hear about these airplanes is about engine failure.
Rather that than only hearing about them when they spin in!
Perhaps not applicable here, but consider the following: you made a rather brisk *right* turn with the selector seemingly on the *left* tank. The fuel outlet of a tank is at its (nearly) lowest point. With dihedral, that's most inside, nearest the fuselage. A right turn Slings (ha ha) the fuel in the left tank *away* from its outlet feeding the engine. If a significant amount of air enters the line while unported, bad things happen. Tanks partially filled or with long thin shapes are particularly vulnerable. Riding with, first and last time, with a guy showing me how cool his plane was, he did a long fast sweeping turn onto the runway, pulled the nose way up to show its steep climb and the engine quit cold, almost stalling before getting the nose down. Bonanzas and Barons, especially feeding from aux tanks will do this too. aviation-safety.net/wikibase/133940 Right turn onto the runway, right tank. Left turn, left tank. And/or, go slow.
IV flown this aircraft when it was based at Virginia, it had a collapsed nose wheel and prop strike due to a hard landing back in 2014 or 2013
Wonder if there was a tear down for that? If he bought this plane, the log books should note the prop strike. Did it?
Hectic, big thanks for sharing!
Glad you're safe buddy ❤
She should've put the phone on airplane mode.
Best comment I've read all day haha!
Thomas......sure missing your videos.......😢
Good Job, really appreciate the video. Maybe I need to be a little more cognizant of what I might do for failure at any point.
David Eames thank you. I think we all need to be expecting something like this to happen on every take off so we’re ready if it does happen.
Excellent job. Clear, fast communication.....no panic. Well done.
My only issue is your beautiful girlfriend talks waaaaay toooo much 🙂
You handled it very well! Only suggestion I have...if I’m being honest...as soon as I was able to exit the runway, I would have shut down the engine immediately! Looking back, your decision to taxi back to the hangar didn’t mess up the engine, but it certainly could have, big time!!!
Indeed, looking back I should have shut down but to be honest I didn't even think about the engine being ruined. I was still in that stage of shock.
You can hear a clatter noise outside the air craft on the taxi way.
Good job. Nice video
Thank you!
It takes a lot of guts to post this to help others understand what can happen. Hope your friend still wants to go up and fly.
Why do those large Rotax engines sound like thrashing machines? Has to be that gear box. Even the 915is sound like that. Looked that up and the Techs say "it AIN'T right and should be corrected.
Am a pilot. You did everything right.
Thanks man!