The Woodpecker Ep 102 - I'm trying my lathe duplicator
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- Опубліковано 24 сер 2024
- For the past year, my lathe was not fully assembled, I remedy to that and I also try the lathe duplicator that came with it.
Alain Vaillancourt 2016
Music:
Whiskey on the Mississippi - Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0
creativecommons...
Man oh man. Those Canadian women are tough as nails, and it appears they are strong enough to lift an entire lathe. Wow!
Very good video. I too have had very little success with a duplicator. Thanks for posting. As always, we some time learn more from failures.
I use to use a duplicator similar to the first one and turned over 30,000 chair legs some years ago. If you spend the time on setup matching cutting tool to follow tool and placement also remove as much vibration from the copier as possible (All up and down sloppiness in the copy head) Balance your spindles properly and remove as much waste before loading then your outcome would be greatly improved. After balancing and setup I use to be able to remove copier and use my lathe as normal.
A lot of people say they are a waste of money due to not spending the time getting setup right or the retailers not having the knowledge themselves to pass on. I could turn a leg every 2 minutes thereabouts with a lite sand of 320g from start to finish, including prep time was just under 5 minutes, but if i was to turn by hand using all the relevant marking tools and short cuts? it took me around 15 minutes and where never 100% the same. I use to make $1.20 a minute profit, $2.50 per leg and made over $90,000 in a eight months and 20 years ago was big money. So my $1000 dollar setup made more money than a friends factory setup including his overheads and 1/4 of a million investment plus paying worker wages in eight months.
So they do work really well, they save quite a bit of time and reproduce great replication (depending on your template) that should be hand turned first and then a acrylic template made from a half slice of the original turning.
A fully automated basic copy lathe runs on the same concept just has more cutters and computer technology. Which today you could do to your own copy attachment with a few motors few switches and a Arduino or Raspberry Pi.
No you shouldn't and if you need any setup help contact me. Or let me know how I can contact you besides posting my email here.
+Peter Linch Thanks, if I need it again, and can't make it work I'll contact you :)
Yes, if the need arises. You have quite a good quality copier, a lot better than most.
My dad made a lot of similar spindles in his day. People often suggested using a duplicator, but my dad always said he'd still have to stand there, and he could turn the spindles out faster by hand. Once he'd made a few of one kind, getting them all identical wasn't that hard.
+Matthias Wandel It's what I figured, and I said to myself; even if they're not 100% identical this probably wouln't show.
+Matthias Wandel Given what you're saying, about the only way a duplicator makes sense is if it's not really a duplicator, so much as a CNC lathe. Load, start program, walk away.
Another great video regardless of the actual results. Thank you and all the best for 2016.
Alain. Happy new year to you and Renee. Great to see a new video from you.
Happy New Year and thank you.
I have used a couple duplicators. The first one I made from thiswoodworks design. It used a router to hog out the material. While it did leave a great finish it had a tendency to barber pole the project. I turn a decent amount of table legs made from pine so like you the tear out is an issue. I bought a viel duplicator which I think is from your area. It uses an angle grinder and 5 carbide cutters. It does a fantastc job turning pine. You still have to sand after turning but for my projects its perfect. I can complete a set of 5x5" table legs in about 20 mins.
+david Boardman Yes Viel lathe duplicator are from around here, I've seen one in a exotic wood store. One thing for sure mine was less then perfect.
Happy new year to you and all your family
The lathe duplicator is awesome, try using a smaller follower. this will help out with duplicating an item.
do not give up on it.
Like the extension. Always intended to make one of those. The duplicator is not anywhere close to what I thought it would be other than a roughing tool.
Aiain the geometry, speed and where you set the cutter to work relative to the centre line of the piece will make a world of difference in you duplicator's performance. Don't give up just yet it can be a useful and productive attachment for your lathe
+Phillip Brown I might try it again another time but for now I'm too disapointed....
Nice lathe. Interested to see some long turnings ;). Have a good 2016!
The cutting edge is at an angle to your work surface. Huge part of your problem.
It looked a lot easier when Norm was doing it! Happy New Year!
+Steve SteveS I thought exactly the same thing :)
The cutter on the first one looks like it was cutting too far below center for a good cut. I think you made the right choice by putting it away. Duplicators don't look like fun to me. The second one looked like it might be useful if you were doing a lot of spindles to use for marking the key features - the same as if you were using a story board.
+Mike Peace It might be just that, but I didn't liked using any of them. But soon I have a video about turning a set of long posts, that I enjoyed a lot :)
+Mike Peace I thought the same thing about the first cutter.
The second one is better, and it's height adjustable, although it seems a bit low to me (could be camera angle) and also it's using such an acute back angle that there's no bevel support. I'd be inclined to try the second one with a small secondary bevel on the back of the cutter of around 60*, then raise it just a tiny bit so that as it engages the workpiece, the secondary bevel is just contacting the workpiece and supporting the fibers. No guarantees, of course, just something I'd try.
Also, Alain, if you cut only downhill (i.e. larger diameter moving into smaller diameter) into the narrower spots you *should* have less tearout. @5:56 the piece in the lathe has tearout that looks like you were going left-to-right, so the downhill spots look ok, but the uphill parts have the tearout. This will mean reversing directions several times, but if you really need to duplicate, then that should help. Again, no guarantees, just a suggestion.
I understand your frustration, however.
Like others I'd say that first duplicator was a long way below centre which is going to contribute to the tear out. I've never found pine to be very good with a scraping cut anyway, in fact it's not an easy wood to turn. The second duplicator was better but I think you were getting close to the best results you were going to get. I don't like duplicators they never leave a piece that's as good as the original, you always lose the crispness of a hand turned piece.
+Wobblycogs Workshop I think that I'll work on having more "hand" turning skill in the future and leave the duplicator alone inside the shed. But yes the second one was a bit better but not enough.
Great video. Thanks!!
This comment is a little late, but I guess better late than never. I find that I get the best finish with my lathe chisels when I 'ride the bevel' (let the chisel bevel rub on the wood) and slowly raise the chisel handle until the edge just begins to cut. This gives a shearing action. Applying that to your duplicator, you might get better results if you can drop the back of your cutter so you get a shearing action instead of a 90 degree scraping.
It might be the trick,
but if it's the trick, why the company didn't do that from the start? One day I'll get it out of the shed sharpen the cutter and retry this. And I 'll check if I can move the angle of the cutter also
Do not give up on duplicator I have one here in Australia, it is awesome I get great results I have not had a bad result since I got it. I made a top of the balustrade with a round & copied 5 of them and they came out pretty darn good. you gave up too soon.
One of my friend said the same thing... He come and visit from the the states sometime, maybe one day I'll put it back up and retry it. But it's encouraging hearing someone saying this duplicator work fine.
I think that the speed of your lathe turning is pretty fast also the speed of duplication seems very high...keep up the nice video's Alain
Happy new year 😊🎉
Your second method is better. It is the same way as the Shopsmith duplicator.
dull cutter and follower should be same size and shape as your cutter to copy exactly
I guess the cutter was dull. I never touched the duplicator after this....
Yeah, put it away instead of using sharp bits and slowing down your speed.
It's still away, One day, when I'll have time, I will re-sharp the cutter and try it again.
I used to know a guy from Woodstock, Ont, on the canadian woodworking forum and he used a Vega duplicator all the time (mostly for bed legs/posts and the like) and he had beautiful results. Let me know if you're curious and I could look to see if I can find links to his forum posts for you.
...art
+wordsnwood Thanks, but I'm not sure if I want to waste more time with that. I tried it and didn't liked it, I think that it showed... But again it might just be me who don't know how to make that work.
Sorry it didn't "turn" out the way you wanted.
Wish you and your wonderful wife all the best in 2016!
+MRrwmac Thank you, and same to you and your familly
The first duplicator seemed to be doing an ok job, just needs a smaller diameter stylus :)
Alain, could you put up a video detailing that steady? from the bit I could see it looked like a decent design. just would be nice to see both sides.
+Adam Bramblet Yes it's really nicely done, you'll see it beter when I'll turn the long post I promised.
The radius on you follower need to be the same as the cutting tool. And these need to be smaller than the smallest radius on your sample
+TheGreatDane3 At least the same as the cutting tip, but it wasn't even the case, I was not even close... Weird from a tool company to do that.
It seemed to me that the problem was in the blade and too fast feed rate.
Alain, have you done any research about how to sharpen the cutters? I don't know if the steel they're made from would keep you from using your new water wheel or some other kind of stone. That duplicator looks fun to use.
+Peter Collin No I just gave up.
Cut with the grain, WOODWORKING 101. Also the cutting point should be at center line or 1/32nd higher!
One day I'll get the attachment out and retry this again, and I'll also try to put it 1/32nd higher
Couldn't you grind or file down the follower a bit? Also, just like for regular turning, wouldn't it be better to do the major wasting away with a gouge, and then switch to an extremely sharp duplicator bit only for the final shaping? Turning usually uses a gouge followed by a skew chisel right? The duplicator may be useless for duplicating but perhaps with a bit of work it could be a useful accessory for just producing extremely regular diameter of straight round lengths, and things like that.
+Warren Postma The replicator follower has a very weird shape it's a too big, off center round tip at the end of a round shaft. I really don't know why it's off center? And it's way too big. But you might be right, the guy who sold me the lathe was saying that he used the replicaor to turn dowels
+Alain Vaillancourt Well if you got it for free with the Lathe it's a good deal. That's a beautiful lathe, and I envy you it! I just bought my first lathe, from an estate sale, $150 for a very generic asian import with a single metal tube as the ways. Tailstock does not stay aligned with the headstock so I have some work to do to tighten it all up.
+Warren Postma I don't complain a bout the lathe it's working great. It was built right here in Quebec probably 30 years ago, now General are manufacturing their lathe (and other tools) in Asia, it's not the same quality.
+Alain Vaillancourt Agree 100%. I have some Stanley planes from Quebec, approximately WW 2 era, and they are wonderful things. My Dad's table saw was a Rockwell Beaver also made in Canada. So sad the Canadian tool making industry died.
There is a piece missing on your dupl. There is a sharp follower that goes on the styles rod. WARREN p.s. i HAVE ONE AND HAVE TO Make THAT PART. Cheers.
+nanja43 That makes sense, because I couln'd figured out why the follower was sooooo big.
I'm going to be trying mine soon. We have a lot of duplicating to do. Good luck to you in the future
+nanja43 Let me know how it went
yes, i noticed the pin was way to big to follow the smaller contours, have you got it sorted ?
I think part of the problem is that you where trying it with Oak which has a long grane and does not shape nicely. Would you try it with maple?
+Afshin Bozorgzadeh No I didn't , but it was spruce thqt gave me that crappy finish, the ash log was better.
Don't you need a center support when turning longer items? Hate for you to get hit by one of those 6' missiles when it comes flying off.
+Alex Gordon I saw the center support at the end of the lathe. That large circle thing. 6:12
+Heavyboxes It's called a steady rest in metal working circles.
+Alex Gordon unless he gets it on camera then its ok
+Alex Gordon I'll use it on my next lathe project, but one thing for sure the duplicator will not move from the place I stored it :)
You were going to fast, the bit must be sharp and move very slowly 1/16” at a time.
Something's wrong with this picture. January in Canada and you are wearing shorts?
+Jimbo L I did that last september. I have several "in bank" episode. And no we have 17" of snow outside it's why I have so much episode ready. Winter is so short that I rather be on my snomobile than inside the shop, so unlike most people I do less woodworking in the winter than the rest of the year.
+Alain Vaillancourt You may be the only Canadian I know who's ever said that our winters are "so short"... :-)
+Wordsnwood (Art Mulder) Spend $20,000 on a couple of newer machines. (Not new ones)
Your opinion might change......
Why don't work very well the copy lathe?
+Josue Anaya A lot of people told me it might be because the cutting head is dull, but even the follower is too big...
+Alain Vaillancourt What is the best solution for this case?
+Josue Anaya To be honest; I'm not sure, my replicator is still lying on the same wall 6 months later, I haven't touched it since this disaster... If I would try it again, I would begin by sharpening the cutter head before doing anything else.
Hello my friend, before you give up on the copier lathe check out this video "Crazy Router Lathe Video"
You're moving to fast, slow down a bit and you'll get much better results.....
Maybe, but I was so discouraged that even after all those years it still lying at the same place in the shed...
@@LgosseuxDbois-TheWoodpecker it's a nice piece of kit you've got there, I have a similar but smaller copier, I have learned through you tube how to use them a bit better...make several lighter cuts rather than a couple of heavy ones, and most importantly, always cut down the grain never up the grain because that will just rip the piece to bits, just like your attempt in fact.
Maybe one day I'll try again. I'll also begin by sharpening the cutter this also might help a bit