ffs - sit this one out guys. Rugby is popular, there's a massive consolidation of richies to a few now which is breaking many industries, but doesn't mean its good for the game to chase it - I'd say it's the opposite. Go to where rugby is loved and exclude the middle men taking their slice from the grass roots.
Be careful when applying a 'moral code' . America and even Britian hardly barometers of moral codes the way they they have treated certain citizens and countries, so what makes Qatar any worse ??
Quatar is worse because they continue to torture and imprison anyone involved in the lgbtq community in particular (not that they are the only marginalised group being mistreated in countries like quatar). While countries like the UK and the US fought in WW2 for freedom from religious persecution and freedom for expression (as the nazis were particularly fond of killing marginalised groups like Jews and gay people), and yet some 80 years on we still support countries that persecute gay people because they can throw money at us to shut us up. Makes me feel fucking ill honestly.
Also, I just think there is too much rugby as it is. After the RWC I suffered from rugby fatigue. There is so much going on right now, Top14, URC, Premiership and the straight into internationals and rugby championship and Olympic sevens at that time, then after that there will be Currie Cup in South Africa, URC and top 14 will have kicked off, then November internationals, then more club rugby, then six nations, it just goes on! Now you want to add another competition? It is overkill!
Mt concern is more for the Players there is so much Rugby being played thru-out the Year now alrdy Players are going to burn-out & becme even more prone to injuries..... More money sounds great but this all doesn't seem very practical and with more money usually comes more corruption and it wld just be too much Rugby for the Players probably going-to end a lot of Careers prematurely with yet another Big-Tournament like this!!!!!!
Rugby Players are already at their max in terms of games they able to play in 12 months. Then once you have another competition you will get teams sending their B teams preferring certain competitions over others, as is already happening. Rugby is not like football or Golf - The physical toll on players puts a cap on the number of games they able to play. But money talks and top players may opt out of other big competitions if the financial lure is strong enough. I would rather look at a way to expand rugby to Portugal and the 2nd tier nations but, will this draw crowds and bring enough money?
Rugby needs the money but as a spectacle it won't add much (over and above the cash) if it's played in Qatar. On the human rights issue - the Qatar Investment Authority (their sovereign wealth fund) owns big stakes in Heathrow Airport, Sainsbury's and VW so if you fly from Heathrow, shop at Sainsbury's or drive a VW, Seat, Skoda, Porsche, Lamborghini, Bentley etc. you're already financially supporting the Qatari economy.
If Qatar pays £800m, this is effectively £100m per game, what downstream implication will this have on future World cup bids. Will this mean World cup bids will jump from roughly £500m to over £1b? If this drive WC bids up we can discount any possibility to expand the game to smaller nations as most nations won't pay those values to host a World cup. Effectively gives the Middle East a Monopoly on future World cup bids and their could be the result we never see another world cup in Aus, NZ, SA, UK or Europe. I'm a little concerned this could have long term implications for the game and slow down or damage its growth.
I’m one of the minority gender that follows rugby. It turns my stomach to think my ❤️ sport would take money from people who treat women like this. Not to mention LGBTQIA
I hate it when countries like England & America talk about human rights when history tells us that those countries are as morally corrupt as the middle East countries take the deal as a South African I support this more money for the sport more money for the players coaches and the unions which they deserve in my opinion. Rugby needs to stop gate keeping the sport with this Moral barometer bs the sport will never grow if we carry on like this the rwc in the group stages was boring and too long because of the difference in quality between smaller nations and the more establish nations you'll never see such predictability in football because of how the game is global almost every nation at the world cup had quality players Saudi Arabia beat Argentina for example in rugby South Africa plays Romania it's was a full gone conclusion before the game everyone knew that the springboks were going to win Where's the excitement in that? We need to globalize rugby more, the more money the better for the sport doesn't matter where the money is from Rugby is a sport for everyone right? Now let's do it without using that phrase just for vibes.
It's not so much the human rights idea for me which I agree involves massive hypocrisy, it's the fact that the middle eastern culture is totally alien to rugby. I mean at least some of them play soccer and golf.
@@wlk2408 You don't have to diss another sport to make you point I agree with you when you say less international rugby and more club games but all I see from western countries is hypocrisy when it comes to money that is not coming out of their pockets they will always scrutinise while we must sit back and keep quiet when they're calling the shots.
Rugby is a winter sport and Qatar is an all-round summer location near to the equator. Unless, they’re build a stadium which they can control the temperature within, it won’t work!
Firstly I am not in favor of the proposed Nations series because it could dilute the World Cup appeal, and secondly player welfare is apparently such a big deal for world rugby that they are considering reducing subs in a game, but at the same time they want to increase the number of games players have to play?.?. That makes the proposed sub law change look hypocritical. But if they are going to go ahead with the “nations” series anyway then they should just go ahead and take the money. Everyone else is taking the money.
@@wlk2408 totally agree. Changing the rules to suit the Kiwi’s for some reason? Changing laws for better fan engagement? Rugby attendances are doing just fine in the north and SA. It only NZ and Aus having engagement issues. But there are always unintended consequences of law changes that weren’t thoroughly thought through
There's no easy answer. Like charities, very little makes it to where it's needed. I think it would be a death nail. I think, despite club failings, rugby is getting more popular. In Europe & South America & Asia. Pacification needs the attention as they shot an own goal there with their organisational poor choices on SA clubs, Australian clubs & on trying to complete on a level with league. America remains the target if they can find a winning system there. The urc model is something they could adopt & they don't have to compete with 6n & another comp. Idk. I think it's a no for me.
The thing is, whatever the human rights or political issues, money talks in sport. Look at football. Boxing. Golf. The list is only growing. Rugby is in a bad way compared to those sports and many others. At an executive level, if the goal is to properly finance the sport, this makes sense.
No matter what we say. Money talks. Football folded to Qatar. I don’t see why rugby won’t follow. I won’t get in to the moral side of things as quite a few rugby nations have similar issues to a lesser extent. My 2c. Whichever way, this will happen whether we like it or not.
it's odd seeing this for me are we really gonna pretend western countries are not at the forefront of terrorism, lol are we really gonna down play that? anyway no problem with Qatar deal. cricket is being played in USA as we speak
I want Qatar to become majorly interested in rugby, simply create their own super league with bought players from around the world like LIV golf and the IPL, then in 5 years, field those players as their national squad and climb their way up the ranks. It seems to be the ONLY way that Irish and Scottish fans will finally see how their teams are taking the piss with the eligibility laws, something they just love to deny.
Do you question is the source of the fuel you use in your vehicle? Why make it an issue when the same nation sponsor sport. You don't ask about human rights at a petrol station 😢😢😢
There are lots of bok and AB supporters here in the ME. Maybe it’s about rugby and letting the supporters go watch their teams which the people here would not otherwise be able to
I disagree with people turning this into a human rights/gender issue. This is sport, it doesn't have to be folded into all the other BS that people incessantly complain about online while doing absolutely nothing to stop it from happening. This is a sporting transaction, that's it. Nothing else. Everyone moaning about human rights, not taking the money will make no difference to them, so if this is the sum total of your contribution to sorting Qatar, you are part of the problem. From a sporting point of view, I see allot of negatives and Alfie has done a good job laying them out. This becomes a decision based on whether money is needed more than a good product. The decision is made.
And what exactly did Falou do/say that the Rugby world needed to turn him into a parish? Player welfare is without doubt the number one consideration, there is already a feeling the players, both male and female are perhaps at the limit so an extra competition is questionable.
when has rugby ever put morals ahead of money? England won a world cup that the US also took part in while they were involved in the illegal invasion of Iraq. Israel are currently welcomed in european club and international rugby.
So by your morale value rugby should get of of UK as they are also violating human rights, and australia, New Zealand, Canada and many more. All these countries violated human right during covid times.
Great. Let's host this in the country that is also hosting Hamas's leaders. I'm certain that Jewish rugby fans must be chomping at the bit to go and watch it live.
Stay away from Qatar those people don’t give a shit about rugby.
This.
FIFA have sold their soul . The game is a disgrace . Rugby needs to stay well away from these ridiculous bids in desert climates . Madness. 🇮🇪
ffs - sit this one out guys. Rugby is popular, there's a massive consolidation of richies to a few now which is breaking many industries, but doesn't mean its good for the game to chase it - I'd say it's the opposite. Go to where rugby is loved and exclude the middle men taking their slice from the grass roots.
Be careful when applying a 'moral code' . America and even Britian hardly barometers of moral codes the way they they have treated certain citizens and countries, so what makes Qatar any worse ??
Quatar is worse because they continue to torture and imprison anyone involved in the lgbtq community in particular (not that they are the only marginalised group being mistreated in countries like quatar). While countries like the UK and the US fought in WW2 for freedom from religious persecution and freedom for expression (as the nazis were particularly fond of killing marginalised groups like Jews and gay people), and yet some 80 years on we still support countries that persecute gay people because they can throw money at us to shut us up. Makes me feel fucking ill honestly.
Alf your concern qround atmosphere in the stadiums qnd the look of the product are the real issues and you spot on with this concern
Simple answer no!
Also, I just think there is too much rugby as it is. After the RWC I suffered from rugby fatigue. There is so much going on right now, Top14, URC, Premiership and the straight into internationals and rugby championship and Olympic sevens at that time, then after that there will be Currie Cup in South Africa, URC and top 14 will have kicked off, then November internationals, then more club rugby, then six nations, it just goes on! Now you want to add another competition? It is overkill!
Mt concern is more for the Players there is so much Rugby being played thru-out the Year now alrdy Players are going to burn-out & becme even more prone to injuries..... More money sounds great but this all doesn't seem very practical and with more money usually comes more corruption and it wld just be too much Rugby for the Players probably going-to end a lot of Careers prematurely with yet another Big-Tournament like this!!!!!!
@@yazeedcariem5684 I couldn't agree with you more. It is scary stuff.
Don't take the money. And don't tune in
What is the benefit and endgame for Qatar?
They haven't figured it out yet, they just have so much money they want to do something with it.
Yeah, great job doing this in a country that has so many human rights violations smfh
Rugby Players are already at their max in terms of games they able to play in 12 months. Then once you have another competition you will get teams sending their B teams preferring certain competitions over others, as is already happening. Rugby is not like football or Golf - The physical toll on players puts a cap on the number of games they able to play. But money talks and top players may opt out of other big competitions if the financial lure is strong enough. I would rather look at a way to expand rugby to Portugal and the 2nd tier nations but, will this draw crowds and bring enough money?
Rugby needs the money but as a spectacle it won't add much (over and above the cash) if it's played in Qatar. On the human rights issue - the Qatar Investment Authority (their sovereign wealth fund) owns big stakes in Heathrow Airport, Sainsbury's and VW so if you fly from Heathrow, shop at Sainsbury's or drive a VW, Seat, Skoda, Porsche, Lamborghini, Bentley etc. you're already financially supporting the Qatari economy.
If Qatar pays £800m, this is effectively £100m per game, what downstream implication will this have on future World cup bids. Will this mean World cup bids will jump from roughly £500m to over £1b? If this drive WC bids up we can discount any possibility to expand the game to smaller nations as most nations won't pay those values to host a World cup. Effectively gives the Middle East a Monopoly on future World cup bids and their could be the result we never see another world cup in Aus, NZ, SA, UK or Europe.
I'm a little concerned this could have long term implications for the game and slow down or damage its growth.
I’m one of the minority gender that follows rugby. It turns my stomach to think my ❤️ sport would take money from people who treat women like this. Not to mention LGBTQIA
Absolutely. It would turn me off watching something played there.
I hate it when countries like England & America talk about human rights when history tells us that those countries are as morally corrupt as the middle East countries take the deal as a South African I support this more money for the sport more money for the players coaches and the unions which they deserve in my opinion. Rugby needs to stop gate keeping the sport with this Moral barometer bs the sport will never grow if we carry on like this the rwc in the group stages was boring and too long because of the difference in quality between smaller nations and the more establish nations you'll never see such predictability in football because of how the game is global almost every nation at the world cup had quality players Saudi Arabia beat Argentina for example in rugby South Africa plays Romania it's was a full gone conclusion before the game everyone knew that the springboks were going to win Where's the excitement in that? We need to globalize rugby more, the more money the better for the sport doesn't matter where the money is from Rugby is a sport for everyone right? Now let's do it without using that phrase just for vibes.
Dankie sani! I couldn't have said it better.
It's not so much the human rights idea for me which I agree involves massive hypocrisy, it's the fact that the middle eastern culture is totally alien to rugby. I mean at least some of them play soccer and golf.
@@wlk2408 You don't have to diss another sport to make you point I agree with you when you say less international rugby and more club games but all I see from western countries is hypocrisy when it comes to money that is not coming out of their pockets they will always scrutinise while we must sit back and keep quiet when they're calling the shots.
@@wlk2408 I was just making an example
@@wlk2408 The Springboks were banned from entering the first two Rugby World Cups by the IRB (World Rugby).
Hard pass. Slavery has no place in rugby
world rugby don't boycott Israel or the USA. Qatar are unproblematic in comparison.
Rugby is a winter sport and Qatar is an all-round summer location near to the equator. Unless, they’re build a stadium which they can control the temperature within, it won’t work!
This competition was designed for the money - this must have been their thinking from Day 1
Great Comparison on the points Cheers Alfred.
It’s disgusting, how can WR have sanctioned South Africa for decades but now take money to look the other way.
No No No No NOOOOO ! No effing way !!!!
Firstly I am not in favor of the proposed Nations series because it could dilute the World Cup appeal, and secondly player welfare is apparently such a big deal for world rugby that they are considering reducing subs in a game, but at the same time they want to increase the number of games players have to play?.?. That makes the proposed sub law change look hypocritical. But if they are going to go ahead with the “nations” series anyway then they should just go ahead and take the money. Everyone else is taking the money.
@@wlk2408 totally agree. Changing the rules to suit the Kiwi’s for some reason? Changing laws for better fan engagement? Rugby attendances are doing just fine in the north and SA. It only NZ and Aus having engagement issues. But there are always unintended consequences of law changes that weren’t thoroughly thought through
There's no easy answer. Like charities, very little makes it to where it's needed. I think it would be a death nail. I think, despite club failings, rugby is getting more popular. In Europe & South America & Asia. Pacification needs the attention as they shot an own goal there with their organisational poor choices on SA clubs, Australian clubs & on trying to complete on a level with league. America remains the target if they can find a winning system there. The urc model is something they could adopt & they don't have to compete with 6n & another comp. Idk. I think it's a no for me.
The thing is, whatever the human rights or political issues, money talks in sport. Look at football. Boxing. Golf. The list is only growing. Rugby is in a bad way compared to those sports and many others. At an executive level, if the goal is to properly finance the sport, this makes sense.
Is this bloody Beaumont's idea? To think they have given that guy a knighthood.
Stupid Billy at it again.
You've got to laugh at this new competition in the UK to show how moral we are. Pure social media era invention.
No matter what we say. Money talks. Football folded to Qatar. I don’t see why rugby won’t follow. I won’t get in to the moral side of things as quite a few rugby nations have similar issues to a lesser extent. My 2c. Whichever way, this will happen whether we like it or not.
If Rugby is not interested Rugby League will be i'm sure.
Rugby is poor very poor. Just take the money and run...
And possibly watching rugby without beer is shite in my books
NO NO NO.....STAY AWAY
it's odd seeing this for me
are we really gonna pretend western countries are not at the forefront of terrorism, lol are we really gonna down play that? anyway no problem with Qatar deal. cricket is being played in USA as we speak
I want Qatar to become majorly interested in rugby, simply create their own super league with bought players from around the world like LIV golf and the IPL, then in 5 years, field those players as their national squad and climb their way up the ranks.
It seems to be the ONLY way that Irish and Scottish fans will finally see how their teams are taking the piss with the eligibility laws, something they just love to deny.
Do you question is the source of the fuel you use in your vehicle?
Why make it an issue when the same nation sponsor sport. You don't ask about human rights at a petrol station 😢😢😢
There are lots of bok and AB supporters here in the ME. Maybe it’s about rugby and letting the supporters go watch their teams which the people here would not otherwise be able to
Selling the soul of rugby!
I disagree with people turning this into a human rights/gender issue. This is sport, it doesn't have to be folded into all the other BS that people incessantly complain about online while doing absolutely nothing to stop it from happening.
This is a sporting transaction, that's it. Nothing else. Everyone moaning about human rights, not taking the money will make no difference to them, so if this is the sum total of your contribution to sorting Qatar, you are part of the problem.
From a sporting point of view, I see allot of negatives and Alfie has done a good job laying them out. This becomes a decision based on whether money is needed more than a good product. The decision is made.
Rugby Set A Precedent With The Israel Folau Case. Going To Qatar Or Saudi For The Money Spits In The Face Of That.
And what exactly did Falou do/say that the Rugby world needed to turn him into a parish? Player welfare is without doubt the number one consideration, there is already a feeling the players, both male and female are perhaps at the limit so an extra competition is questionable.
Stay away from Qatar. The money will stay with the higher-ups and not go to the clubs etc.
No chance if they don’t stop their human rights violations, even though rugby could do with the earnings, we should always put morals ahead of money
when has rugby ever put morals ahead of money? England won a world cup that the US also took part in while they were involved in the illegal invasion of Iraq. Israel are currently welcomed in european club and international rugby.
So by your morale value rugby should get of of UK as they are also violating human rights, and australia, New Zealand, Canada and many more. All these countries violated human right during covid times.
@@louismaloney6611Lol, bugger off with that bs.
People dont boycott Qatar or Saudi Oil but then virtue signal about sport
Funny that people complain about Qatar and yet support that the very same people be allowed, in their millions, into their countries
😊
Absolutely not, selling your soul to the devil is not the answer.
Great. Let's host this in the country that is also hosting Hamas's leaders. I'm certain that Jewish rugby fans must be chomping at the bit to go and watch it live.
Exactly!
I’m sure the ANC and Ireland would welcome it, the stains on moral decency that they are.
Who cares tbh...
Yeah the mighty Jewish rugby fan lobby.
@@Camcolito There might be more of them if countries like Ireland weren’t neutral during WWII. Food for thought.
I absolutely hate this concept. Its not a climate for rugby