i tried for 10 years to do platform, but for some reason it makes me feel unbalanced pinpoint helps me balance better and actually move forward into the court
It always stuck me that the big difference is how you throw yourself into the court. The platform is more from the bannana back shape and you throw yourself in like you are doing a headbutt. The pinpoint is more of a push up and forward with the legs. Hence the platform requires a relatively stronger back and the pinpoint relatively stronger legs. Hence pro ladies mostly pinpointing as it suits their physiology better, in fact many use a variant where they put both feet on the baseline not one behind the other which I guess is also more natural. Pro men mostly platform unless they are very tall - Sampras, Federer, and Djokovic show that at average height (for pro's) the disguise and placement benefits outweight the extra speed of pinpoint. However if you are really tall and a big advantage of your serve is the angle you can send the ball down into the court then pinpoint allows you to jump higher and further into the court and gives a better angle to hit down on. So your Isners and Opelka's pinpoint.
I started with a platform, then through teaching myself to serve properly, I tried pinpoint because that’s what the pros do. It felt natural but when I filmed myself it didn’t look as great as I thought it did - it looked like I was falling forward too much & not staying upright. So now I’ve gone back to platform with a narrow-ish stance. With a pin-point I feel it’s too easy to face the court prematurely, but the platform stance kind of forces you to stay side-on for longer. And most club players I’ve seen who use pin-point overshoot their back foot.
I really appreciate your saying up front that your prefer platform stance for most players, especially at the recreational levels, since only a very small number of people ever reach high level competition! I shall give the platform a try, as my pinpoint is too inaccurate.
This was an awesome video on differentiating between the platform and pinpoint stance. I am 67 years old and I am thinking that the platform stands will clearly provide consistency and help with my balance. That is sometimes an issue. Thanks so much I’ll add another comment. Once I start using the platform stands to let you know how it goes!
I changed from pinpoint to platform and found that the increase in balance improved my serve's spin and power massively. You also don't have to struggle to keep balance after contact.
I know it's really weird but i like using both serve stances. Typically I serve in platform but i do like to use pinpoint sometimes on my 1st serve to get extra pop.
This is goldust thank you! As I'm tall (1m95) and now just past 45 years old I think it's probably best to stick with the platform stance. The problem I've been having since I started playing is that I move my right foot into the court (as if I'm walking into the court) rather than the left as it should be with a little jump. Now I'm trying to manufacture the jump but can't get the timing right. I just can't seem to get any bend in my knees in the motion. Many people keep telling me that this has handicapped me but even with this handicap I've managed to win several tournaments at a decent club level (I'm around the equivalent of a 4.1 player on the UK rating system). Your video is the best and clearest I've seen on this topic by a distance. Will try to implement some of these tips over the next few weeks/months but will try to make these fixes when I'm not in tournament season. Keep up the good work!
My problem with a platform stance is that my left foot (I am righty) takes off the ground the moment I toss a ball. It is very hard to control for me, I don't know why. This is why I decided to try pin point one. I just started but it feels like I'll be able to unlock more power this way.
Great teaching video coach. It made me realize a few new things. May I suggest for your consideration a couple of coaching videos: 1) I have a hard time jumping upwards to reach and strike the ball during my serve. Also I noticed good servers as they jump and land they kick the non-landing leg while landing inside the court. 2) The abbreviated serving arm style (Roddick) versus the traditional style with a huge loading arm rotation. Thank you! Love your videos.
Orlando, I've actually seen this develop on my serve more naturally as my other mechanics improved. I wouldn't concentrate on it; It's almost forced. If your body weight is moving forward into the serve correctly(with the shoulder rotation being correct), you have to counter rotate your leg forward like that so as to not fling yourself into the ground.
Top tier video!!! I have only been using the platform stand, felt all the pros of the stand that you mention. But i heard from alot of place that the platform stands does give you back problems. Can anyone confirm and can it be avoided? Coming from a person with lower back problems for the 10 years.
Thanks, perfect explanation and demonstration. Now I don't need to record this topic myself, I'll just share this video with people who ask me about serve stances. :)
@@adambird9949 Appreciated, although I agree with everything said above. I would just add the platform stance works better for players who have explosive legs (which means they are not very tall) and pinpoint is then used by players who are not so explosive. So all very tall players like Isner, Opelka, Karlovic, etc - use poinpoint stance.
Great video - thanks. A question for you (or anyone): Do you find that it's easier to disguise where you're serving it with the platform serve or that has no bearing? (Maybe, I'm picturing Roger and Pete's (and to some extent Novak's) classic platform serves.)
Hi Ashley, great content as always!I love those rebound walls in the court at the beginning of the video?I couldn't find anywhere though. Where i can buy them?Can you help me please?thank you in advance :-)
Always feels to me that it's a minor stylistic thing. Pinpoint stance probably generates like 5% more power but introduces slight inconsistency. It seems it's just whatever feels more natural or which helps fix other issues with the serve easier. For example I tend to have an issue with rotating my upper body too early and I'm thinking that platform stance could help me delay that rotation to fix that hopefully. Also seems that platform stance makes more sense for those with a heavy sideways stance like Federer, Sampras, McEnroe who jump into the court less I think but have more body rotation. More traditional straight stance pinpoint seems to be more natural
Tore my calf serving. Then once healed switched to platform stance to balance loading on the legs. Still feels weird. Does not matter the style, still serve lice cr4p.
Hi tennis mentor i like your videos I wanted to ask that can you pls make a video of tennis like about your journey how much hard work it cost you to come up by the way I’m subscribed for 5 months have a great day
I’ve switched back and forth a couple times now. Pinpoint provides more power for me but I’ve noticed a lot more spin and am better at locating with platform.
I started with a pinpoint and I served pretty well with it. The problem started with my knees. The pinpoint has too much weight on my leading leg and there was a lot more stress on my knee. And I started to get knee pain. I switched to the medium platform stance and never looked back. I do think there are power advantages with the pinpoint as you say but I just didn't like the long term impact to my body. If you can do it then good for you but when you get older, you might switch and there will be a significant learning curve the longer you wait.
I will be playing in college coming this fall, and i have always used a pinpoint stance, but over the past few days, i have had many problems with my serve. Should i just experiment with the platform stance for a couple days and see how it feels, or keep my pinpoint stance?
Funny story: sunday two weeks ago my coach wanted to convince me, I should change from a platform to a pinpoint stance. The following saturday we had a mixed competition with our team, including singles and a mixed doubles matches. On both matches cumulative I shot at least 15 aces - on "my" platform stance 😅
I've always used the pinpoint style since I started learning tennis it just felt natural to me. But at the same time I never thought about it much so didn't realize there was a difference between pinpoint and platform or their names 😅. It is great to know the difference and I'm planning on experimenting with both ways to see how they feel to me personally.
I've always had powerful serving from the pinpoint stance, but too many days where the 2nd serve wasn't accurate. So eventually, I switched the 2nd serve to platform, and now have the best of both worlds. Great that you covered the Roddick-like stance at the end - I really enjoy that one too. Knowing how to do them all can get you out of a rut on days when something is off with the rhythm of your preferred windup. (Of course, you can also try serving from a different position on the baseline - anything that jogs your mind out of a "bad habit" that happened to set in on the day - It's crazy to keep serving poorly the whole match unwilling to change anything to break the spell.)
I would favor the PinPoint stance. Funnily enough, I step forward with my back leg to the side of my front leg or even a little further, i.e. crossing the front foot. Thereby, I twist like a corkscrew but it works relatively well and feels natural to me. So, it‘s a kind of a hybrid stance 😅That's why I'm a good 15 cm behind the baseline. At 57, I won't be a pro anymore anyway. 🤪
It’s quite common. If you find it works ok for you then it’s ok, although it may be useful to know that your back foot passing your front foot will come with limitations as your hips face the court rather than being sideways or coiling backwards. You may struggle with hitting kick serves. My recent video may be interesting for you: ua-cam.com/video/ZPTPZu6kgXA/v-deo.html
@@TheTennisMentor Thank you, Ashley. I assume that my hips are not as flexible anymore. I have exactly the same problem as this junior player of yours. However, I will try the drill 2 with ball next to the front foot and see what happens. 👍🙏
Two questions... What is the board you are hitting against? And do you advise mixing in the other stance from time to time? This would make for a great video from the returner's perspective to see how comfortable they are with the difference when they don't know which is coming.
Why not start with pinpoint and move the front foot forward - ending in “forward motion platform” - like Gilles Simon did? I never used this method but it actually looked pretty natural like a baseball throw???
I mentioned this elsewhere but consider a hybrid. Watch Andy Roddick. Brings the back foot forward but maintains a relaxed shoulder width. Benefits of both and easy to learn.
i tried for 10 years to do platform, but for some reason it makes me feel unbalanced
pinpoint helps me balance better and actually move forward into the court
It always stuck me that the big difference is how you throw yourself into the court. The platform is more from the bannana back shape and you throw yourself in like you are doing a headbutt. The pinpoint is more of a push up and forward with the legs. Hence the platform requires a relatively stronger back and the pinpoint relatively stronger legs. Hence pro ladies mostly pinpointing as it suits their physiology better, in fact many use a variant where they put both feet on the baseline not one behind the other which I guess is also more natural. Pro men mostly platform unless they are very tall - Sampras, Federer, and Djokovic show that at average height (for pro's) the disguise and placement benefits outweight the extra speed of pinpoint. However if you are really tall and a big advantage of your serve is the angle you can send the ball down into the court then pinpoint allows you to jump higher and further into the court and gives a better angle to hit down on. So your Isners and Opelka's pinpoint.
I can’t stress how much I like this comment. Really insightful. Thank you.
A
I started with a platform, then through teaching myself to serve properly, I tried pinpoint because that’s what the pros do. It felt natural but when I filmed myself it didn’t look as great as I thought it did - it looked like I was falling forward too much & not staying upright. So now I’ve gone back to platform with a narrow-ish stance. With a pin-point I feel it’s too easy to face the court prematurely, but the platform stance kind of forces you to stay side-on for longer. And most club players I’ve seen who use pin-point overshoot their back foot.
I’m able to do both but platform all day!
I really appreciate your saying up front that your prefer platform stance for most players, especially at the recreational levels, since only a very small number of people ever reach high level competition! I shall give the platform a try, as my pinpoint is too inaccurate.
I hope it helps, let me know how you get on… The narrow platform may be a good starting point!
This was an awesome video on differentiating between the platform and pinpoint stance. I am 67 years old and I am thinking that the platform stands will clearly provide consistency and help with my balance. That is sometimes an issue. Thanks so much I’ll add another comment. Once I start using the platform stands to let you know how it goes!
Excellent video Ashley!
Super complete and the message is simple but very clear and easy to understand.
Thank you and have a nice day.
Thank you! You too!
wow its what i needed, u explain very well, even if my english is bad. With deconstruction of movement its nice.
Thanks, I’m glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks Ashley, I have always been a platform stance, but will try the pinpoint.
I like to experiment… let me know how it goes!
I changed from pinpoint to platform and found that the increase in balance improved my serve's spin and power massively. You also don't have to struggle to keep balance after contact.
I know it's really weird but i like using both serve stances. Typically I serve in platform but i do like to use pinpoint sometimes on my 1st serve to get extra pop.
Not weird, I get it!
This video is fantastic. Thanks.
Glad you liked it! Thanks for watching 🙏
This is goldust thank you! As I'm tall (1m95) and now just past 45 years old I think it's probably best to stick with the platform stance. The problem I've been having since I started playing is that I move my right foot into the court (as if I'm walking into the court) rather than the left as it should be with a little jump. Now I'm trying to manufacture the jump but can't get the timing right. I just can't seem to get any bend in my knees in the motion. Many people keep telling me that this has handicapped me but even with this handicap I've managed to win several tournaments at a decent club level (I'm around the equivalent of a 4.1 player on the UK rating system).
Your video is the best and clearest I've seen on this topic by a distance. Will try to implement some of these tips over the next few weeks/months but will try to make these fixes when I'm not in tournament season. Keep up the good work!
My problem with a platform stance is that my left foot (I am righty) takes off the ground the moment I toss a ball. It is very hard to control for me, I don't know why. This is why I decided to try pin point one. I just started but it feels like I'll be able to unlock more power this way.
Force your brain to keep that damn foot down and practice 100 tosses, and when you're done, 10 laps around the court. You're welcome.
Pinopoint ..currently working on my balance
Great teaching video coach. It made me realize a few new things. May I suggest for your consideration a couple of coaching videos: 1) I have a hard time jumping upwards to reach and strike the ball during my serve. Also I noticed good servers as they jump and land they kick the non-landing leg while landing inside the court. 2) The abbreviated serving arm style (Roddick) versus the traditional style with a huge loading arm rotation. Thank you! Love your videos.
Orlando, I've actually seen this develop on my serve more naturally as my other mechanics improved. I wouldn't concentrate on it; It's almost forced. If your body weight is moving forward into the serve correctly(with the shoulder rotation being correct), you have to counter rotate your leg forward like that so as to not fling yourself into the ground.
Great video Thanks for the contents wondering whether you got the targets that you hit on your serves that were on the other side of the court
Thanks for watching, these targets are called TargetBound
Top tier video!!! I have only been using the platform stand, felt all the pros of the stand that you mention. But i heard from alot of place that the platform stands does give you back problems. Can anyone confirm and can it be avoided? Coming from a person with lower back problems for the 10 years.
Thanks, perfect explanation and demonstration. Now I don't need to record this topic myself, I'll just share this video with people who ask me about serve stances. :)
Thanks so much for the comment… means a lot from you 🙏🙏
I’d also watch a video about this topic by you Tomasz!!!
@@adambird9949 Appreciated, although I agree with everything said above. I would just add the platform stance works better for players who have explosive legs (which means they are not very tall) and pinpoint is then used by players who are not so explosive. So all very tall players like Isner, Opelka, Karlovic, etc - use poinpoint stance.
@@feeltennis At 5ft 6 I think I’ll stick with a platform stance then!
Very nice video!
Thanks Peter!
What are your thoughts about Andy Roddick and how he serves? I think I might try it in the future. God bless you
Great video - thanks. A question for you (or anyone): Do you find that it's easier to disguise where you're serving it with the platform serve or that has no bearing? (Maybe, I'm picturing Roger and Pete's (and to some extent Novak's) classic platform serves.)
Hi Ashley, great content as always!I love those rebound walls in the court at the beginning of the video?I couldn't find anywhere though. Where i can buy them?Can you help me please?thank you in advance :-)
These are called “target bound” 😎
@@TheTennisMentor thank You so much!!❤️❤️❤️❤️
What are those two boards you hit at the beginning? What are they called?
They’re called Target Bound
Nice vid thanks for sharing. Can you share (or someone) the name of the training boards used on the video in black where the bounces back?
Always feels to me that it's a minor stylistic thing. Pinpoint stance probably generates like 5% more power but introduces slight inconsistency.
It seems it's just whatever feels more natural or which helps fix other issues with the serve easier. For example I tend to have an issue with rotating my upper body too early and I'm thinking that platform stance could help me delay that rotation to fix that hopefully.
Also seems that platform stance makes more sense for those with a heavy sideways stance like Federer, Sampras, McEnroe who jump into the court less I think but have more body rotation. More traditional straight stance pinpoint seems to be more natural
Please tell us where to get those targets??
They’re called Target Bound
Tore my calf serving. Then once healed switched to platform stance to balance loading on the legs. Still feels weird. Does not matter the style, still serve lice cr4p.
Hi tennis mentor i like your videos I wanted to ask that can you pls make a video of tennis like about your journey how much hard work it cost you to come up by the way I’m subscribed for 5 months have a great day
Hey, yes will work on it… sounds like it could be an interesting video! Thanks for your support🙏🙏
I'm using pinpoint because it generates more power than when I'm using platform stance
👌
I’ve switched back and forth a couple times now. Pinpoint provides more power for me but I’ve noticed a lot more spin and am better at locating with platform.
which felt like better balance?
For me the choice was easy - I couldn’t do the platform stance at all.
Anyone know where you can get those boards?
They’re called ‘TargetBound’
about $500 CDN🤔
I started with a pinpoint and I served pretty well with it. The problem started with my knees. The pinpoint has too much weight on my leading leg and there was a lot more stress on my knee. And I started to get knee pain. I switched to the medium platform stance and never looked back. I do think there are power advantages with the pinpoint as you say but I just didn't like the long term impact to my body. If you can do it then good for you but when you get older, you might switch and there will be a significant learning curve the longer you wait.
Slightly bend the back leg before jumping, so the heel slightly lifted up... Give it a try
I will be playing in college coming this fall, and i have always used a pinpoint stance, but over the past few days, i have had many problems with my serve. Should i just experiment with the platform stance for a couple days and see how it feels, or keep my pinpoint stance?
Yes, trying won't hurt you.
If you don't like it you can go back, but you may like it better
Funny story: sunday two weeks ago my coach wanted to convince me, I should change from a platform to a pinpoint stance. The following saturday we had a mixed competition with our team, including singles and a mixed doubles matches. On both matches cumulative I shot at least 15 aces - on "my" platform stance 😅
😅😅
what is his shoes?
Adidas Cybersonic
I've always used the pinpoint style since I started learning tennis it just felt natural to me. But at the same time I never thought about it much so didn't realize there was a difference between pinpoint and platform or their names 😅. It is great to know the difference and I'm planning on experimenting with both ways to see how they feel to me personally.
I've always had powerful serving from the pinpoint stance, but too many days where the 2nd serve wasn't accurate. So eventually, I switched the 2nd serve to platform, and now have the best of both worlds. Great that you covered the Roddick-like stance at the end - I really enjoy that one too. Knowing how to do them all can get you out of a rut on days when something is off with the rhythm of your preferred windup. (Of course, you can also try serving from a different position on the baseline - anything that jogs your mind out of a "bad habit" that happened to set in on the day - It's crazy to keep serving poorly the whole match unwilling to change anything to break the spell.)
Another reason to use pinpoint is if you play a lot of doubles. It naturally leads you to s&v as you are launching yourself into the court.
Agreed
Can you do a video on the new head radical 2023 racket.
what is he hitting against???
Pinpoint is more power, platform is more control.
I would favor the PinPoint stance. Funnily enough, I step forward with my back leg to the side of my front leg or even a little further, i.e. crossing the front foot. Thereby, I twist like a corkscrew but it works relatively well and feels natural to me. So, it‘s a kind of a hybrid stance 😅That's why I'm a good 15 cm behind the baseline. At 57, I won't be a pro anymore anyway. 🤪
It’s quite common. If you find it works ok for you then it’s ok, although it may be useful to know that your back foot passing your front foot will come with limitations as your hips face the court rather than being sideways or coiling backwards. You may struggle with hitting kick serves. My recent video may be interesting for you: ua-cam.com/video/ZPTPZu6kgXA/v-deo.html
@@TheTennisMentor Thank you, Ashley. I assume that my hips are not as flexible anymore. I have exactly the same problem as this junior player of yours. However, I will try the drill 2 with ball next to the front foot and see what happens. 👍🙏
Two questions... What is the board you are hitting against? And do you advise mixing in the other stance from time to time? This would make for a great video from the returner's perspective to see how comfortable they are with the difference when they don't know which is coming.
I think you’ll confuse yourself more than your opponent by mixing up stances. Better to practice mixing up kick and slice serves
Use the one that works best for you. One is not better than the other.
You got it!
Why not start with pinpoint and move the front foot forward - ending in “forward motion platform” - like Gilles Simon did? I never used this method but it actually looked pretty natural like a baseball throw???
id like to see that
Pinpoint because its cooler
You could've used the footage from sydney 2010 when Serena was serving platform and pinpoint during all her matches
I have a lower toss…. so I think a platform would best suit me… I think🤔
Not necessarily… Nick Kyrgios has a low toss with pinpoint
I moved from pinpoint to platform a few years ago and my accuracy has increased, but speed has decreased.
I mentioned this elsewhere but consider a hybrid. Watch Andy Roddick.
Brings the back foot forward but maintains a relaxed shoulder width. Benefits of both and easy to learn.
Is this the first video of yours I’ll ever dislike? You chose Novak over me?! Unforgivable!
I’m so sorry… I avoided using your serve as it would be far too difficult for others to copy! #oneofakind