It's not the genuine mistakes that wear you down, it's the pugs that think they're special and don't need to do mechanics. They think everyone else can do them, it I should just heal them through it. Mistakes are fine. Laziness and selfishness are what kill it.
+4 with 889k HPS overall... Was giga sweaty after that 😂 ++8 less that 500k HPS overall, smooth as butter... That's the trouble. And what the hell is with that new healer affix... I'm blowing Ascendance to burst the shield down then we're all bleeding out to pulsing AOE from a Tyran boss fight 🫣
For once in years ive started dpsing after maining only healer. Im genuinely happier, dont give a damn, doing my dishes, being happy n doing chores IRL Healing unironicly is depression
I play Guardian Druid, started guardian end of S4 of SL, played Hunter before that, now I only tank and do everything as tank, hit 2500-2700 all 4 seasons of DF, and helped my group of friends who aren’t the best but aren’t the worst get 2000+ and 2500 a couple times, we enjoyed raising our gear then going into higher keys, This xpac with the addition of delves I think we’ve collectively done 1-2 +2s as a group and have checked out of M+ this season, we’re all about 605-615 ilvl, but no1 wants to stress to complete keys and none of us want to push to +8s to get myth crests and +10s to get Myth track, if the rewards structure never changed we would be in M+ every week, making tanks squishier so healers have something to heal just makes tanking less fun
Whenever I heal, it always feels like I did something wrong when someone dies.. even if the dps stood in fire, or the tank doesn’t press a cd or keep their basic mitigation up.
Man I realized pve’ers were ACTUALLY AWFUL when I healed heroic amyrdrassil raid for legendary axe. ( I’m a r1 ret paladin and top 1 world exp prot pal) I couldn’t believe why and how people wouldn’t pop defensives on aoe mechanics or anything. Like I’d see a hunter not use turtle of the entire raid when he should use it once every boss fight at least. No ice block ever, etc. No wonder pvp is dead, pve’ers can’t even fathom the difficulty of pvp. Above 2.4K it’s harder than mythic raiding lmao.
As a tank main it forsure happens the overhealing feels so bad as a DH. ill fuck the healer and the healer will often fuck me. Not to mention how many things dh rotates for damage mitigation it just gets rought to say whens the best time for heals to take over unless you burn all your cd which leaves dh very vulnerable. prot warrior felt brain dead for me but i know alot of healers like how smooth the health fluctuation is on prot.
It's not you Willow. For me there is being good at your class and a Zen master. The nature of the combat in PvP is for me the finishing school for that. If you can rise high in RBG or Arena and hold your own you are streets ahead of a general pve'er in every dept bar routinely doing the raids. You think faster, handle pressure better, oh shit moments are a cakewalk because it's still ten times slower than what's incoming directly at your from say an insane DK tracking your every move while a Hunter is laying down withering fire and CC on you plus healing, your positioning and situational awareness and on and on. The player who get's PvP is about I'd say 50 times more likely to be using their defensives on CD and will also have very high awareness and for what other players are doing and quickly adjust.
Ive been healing for about 3 years now. First as a mistweaver then to holy paladin and now back to mistweaving in TWW. I have reached KSH 3 times in a row and ive loved healing. it has been clear to me ever since i started healing that it needs alot of work in terms of ballance. now in TWW its the first time ive ever questioned myself why i put up with all the bullshit that people love to give healers. healing needs serious help and blizzard needs to look over what a healer should be and what our responsebilities should be. im honestly thinking of quiting the game untill this is sorted
I'm a fistweaving Mw and CBA with Pve who are generally bad players compared to your PvP dps player of the same class. I'll take my PvP buddy over a PvE same all day long. Lol, what have they done, I've gone from stand off MW to healing/finisher/target caller who is frying DPS with 3 Jade Lightning bursts at 1.1 M dmg each at 2.5 secs each and giggling Darth Sidious stylee "unlimited power" *crackle* DEAD.
As a tank everyone excepts you to pull the entire room, not every pull has to be huge, especially in m+. I might go through a TW dg and pull everything in the room but thats for shits and giggles. If I die o’well Ill make the run back, mythic dgs are a total different thing and dps needs to understand that. Ty for coming to my ted talk.
idt most people understand the pulls are to avoid overlapping to many mechanics. A prime example of this is all the adds just before the last boss. It shows you quickly what teams are good dps or bad.
I’m not a SUPER elite gamer but the last time I played I was 5/8M in Vault of the Incarnates and I was chilling in 20-23s sometimes pushing towards 24s and 25s. Just got back into WoW a week ago as a Disc priest, been healing some 8s at about 590 Ilvl. I think right now I’m 606 and I’ve done a few 10s and I hate it. The room for error is 0. You get 1 shit by everything, the damage is so bursty and so fast, you need to hit every global perfectly to keep people alive and it still feels like I just can’t move health bars up. I’m sure a lot of this is because of my item level but it’s just so stressful to be managing everything, cleansing, healing, good external usage, good defensive, using fear to stop the interrupts that your donkey teammates won’t interrupt, while also healing everyone. It’s just exhausting. There’s no ramping damage that you feel like you’re battling against. It’s just, everyone is at 100% hp, everyone is at 15% hp, better slam every button as fast as I possibly can while more damage is coming out. You’re casting a spell and a pool spawns at your feet and you’re fucking doomed. There’s a couple of heroic raid fights, idr the name but it’s the Dawnbreaker boss that you fight again. To me, that’s a great example of healing. There’s a steady ramping amount of damage. A couple burst windows, but it feels like if you manage your coorldowns properly you can heal the fight well. They need to make m+ have a bit more ramping damage and less 70% bursts you need to spot heal less you die to the next one.
I’m a resto Druid main and have been for a while. I’m 100% pug. My goal every season is to get to 2500io, then I’m completely comfortable doing normal stuff around wow. What I really hate with a passion is how there are so many tanks and/or groups that watch high-end mythic+ groups on twitch or the blasted MDI and think that’s how EVERYONE should play. Fawk that non-sense. They ain’t geared or skilled to play like that. Neither am I, but my expectations are in line with my skill level. If a mythic + can be run nice and smooth and still time, I’m 1000% okay.
Healing has always been the game's worst role for numerous reasons, but M+ is overwhelmingly the worst thing they've added to the game in decades. After SL, I will not and have not participated in M+ content. It's uninteresting, it's all in on killing you for the smallest of mistakes or heaven forbid having a lag moment where you don't get an interrupt off for one reason or another, people are toxic, and the rewards are, frequently for me personally, *actually nothing.* I cannot tell you the number of times in BFA and SL that I got duplicate items of things I was already wearing, sometimes even already having higher ilvl, than what was in my chest or vault. In BFA I remember getting the same pair of M6 gloves for six weeks in a row. I enjoy tanking at a high level. I'm even arguably good at it, given enough exposure to the content. Since M+ basically changes the content, altering which enemies need to be spiked first and which ones can/should be held, I hate it for that reason alone. Also, you're using an addon for PATHS?! Really, this is what dungeoning has become? It's not enough that you louts make WeakAuras to tell you what to do and when to do it, not enough that we have boss mods that yell at you for things you should already be generally aware of, but now the demands are having your PATH mapped out for you? Frankly, the above is another reason I was done with M+ in BFA, let alone SL, and refused to touch it in DF. People deciding 'their' path was 'correct.' I pull things a certain way because I don't like to die stupidly. Remember doing BRD in Vanilla? You pulled deliberately and carefully and the mark of a good tank was someone who could make those decisions. But now everyone wants to lead the group and not let the tank do their job and pull what they think they can best handle. You ALL are the problem with M+.
I healed in wow from classic till i quit mop. I came back this xpac and i had to switch to tank on my druid and pally. Healing is not fun when your heals outside of cd feel pointless. My pally and guardian should not be beating or less than 10%hps difference than the healer in the group. Just my opinion lol.
It's their insane way of adding "complexity". People complain too much when managing mana is hard, so instead they just want people to manage CDs. imo, managing CDs suck. My favorite healer moments from the older expansions were always when shit hit the fan and through twitchy reactions and good planning I managed to keep everyone alive anyway, but you can't do that these days, if you spend CDs to keep someone alive outside of the "right time", then the right time comes and everyone dies. Healers are no longer able to fix mistakes, even though that is their job. So it'd be better to just make mistakes no longer their job
Healing in those expansions were beyond easy. Its definitely not rewarding enough currently but coming from the ancient days of wow healing into tww mustve been shocking.
@@gohomehero compared to classic yes, but the later stages of wrath and cata i actually found harder than the healing now. just the healing though. now there are alot more mechanics, interupts, and dmg dealing to do while healing. but now every class also has insane sustain so the healing isnt hard per se. Like, with my guardian i do over 600k hps and am usually tied or just under my healers over all healing in the mythic. its just annoying that if a dps or tank misses a defensive they are dead and i as the heals cant do anything about it. in wrath a tanks health would go down 90% but my spammed holy light would immediately top him up. much more big swings of health making me as a heals feel very impactful. now someone drops 90% health, if they dont use a defensive or self heal it will take a few globals from me to get them back up, making my heals feel worthless.
They need to fix the interrupt issue, in pugs atm interrupts is the biggest keykiller, there are to many lethal killer casts that needs to be interrupted at the same time and in pugs where you cant coordinate kicks and Everyone kicks the same target every interrupt goes on cool down and you cant kick the other 5 things you need to interrupt, They need to interrupt a grace period, of something gets interrupted and then 3 other interrupts gets cash on the same target within 1-2 seconds on the same target those interrupts need to no go on cool down
Yeah tapped out on healing a 2 weeks ago. It felt like trash. Feels completely irrelevant when 80% of the relevant content 1 shots your group. There’s nothing I can do for the majority of peoples deaths. It feels completely underwhelming. Whats worse is they someone how think it’s my fault they took 11.5 million damage from a frontal and didn’t heal them instantly. Then I get yelled at by a dps under 600k dps for not running APT on RSham….that talent is dog $hite! Nah thanks, just went to prot warrior and ret paladin like I should have from launch of TWW. I’ll never main a healer for an expansion launch again. F@ck me for trying to be less selfish!…. (Don’t get me started on the unavoidable group aoes) 😡 😡
I'm a healer main -- it honestly feels nice to feel like you're NEEDED now. If you learn the dungeons and know how to be prepared for each pull, it's not *easy* but it is definitely a fun challenge that is doable. It really comes down to the tank pacing, still. If a tank thinks just because he's able to survive a pull that means everyone else can, that's when you get in trouble. Stuff like double throw flesh in NW on a Fort week or a +10 or higher and a DPS gets 1 shot. I do agree that it's not as easy to get consistent runs in when you have to pug tanks a lot, but it is definitely doable. I got to 2500 rating pretty easily with Disc and pugged just about all of it.
Delves saved the expansion for me. No one ever invited or joined my 8level delves so i soloed them screw the crappy wow community. They need to keep solo content rolling.
I am a healer main, this season has been really rough for sure. Tank and healer life has been better. I would love to see a modernized proving grounds for M+. I think a lot of players literally have no idea how powerful their Damage Reduction and Self Heal abilities are. Even POTIONS!!!!!!!! Also, I am disappointed in how the M0 and heroic changes have worked out for teaching players dungeon mechanics. Personally I think its time for DBM to be built into the base game to help teach players. Or maybe using follower dungeon tech to teach mechanics. AND PLEASE for the love of god can we get a universal design language for things on the floor...frontals, swirlies, soaks, charges. Grim Batol has great line spell effects but the Earthen in Stonevault that Charge just get an arrow that is harder to see from range.
Genuinely insane to me when people go into an M+ dungeon with no pots. That shit saves lives. I main hunter so defensives are fairly sparse and the amount of times I’ve been sitting there with everything on cd during a long boss fight and been able to pop a pot and get myself from sub 20% to near max is game is wild.
It's actually much easier to heal in 12+, below that you will see people not kicking, not using their defensive, not standing in the AOE healing (Efflorescence, healing rain, etc.). Those people tend to blame healers since they don't even know how healing works in the game. And, they always say that "Why am I supposed to stand in there?? I'm a ranged dps". Most of them don't even know how warcraft log works... so it's even hard to discuss with them. And, I don't know why, but they are often hunter or mage, lol.
Scarab Lord Suntzu - Tich (H)&(A) Rdru's we dont burn out, we grind !.....I live in Arena's and stay safe in my garrison : ) Anyone who needs a healer who can heal all content ...pst
Edit: biggest issue I notice was reading the in game material ALOT of VERY important things are not included. I didnt know until I looked up other players approach. im a casual played legion the most. played the first part of shadow lands and only have done lfr. I got 2500 the second week as a tank. imo it was very easy but you can REALLY tell the difference between a good/bad group. I did play with a duo and that was nice because he know my pulls where i was going and so on. Example some people on dawn dont like you to move when the general or second boss fear. Others will rage and insta leave if you dont. Thankfully as tank it was easy to push my key and get parties. I made a warrior week 3 for dps couldnt get groups quick with 2525 io week 3 so I played prot. Hit 2k io at 590gs and got my first myth piece at 605 gs now my warrior sits at 610 and I do just 8 10s for vault and I main the dh which feels REALLY bad in pubs but with a good team he feals REALLY good. where prot feels ez mode in pubs but ehhh in good teams. Still good but you feel less useful imo. Again im not claiming i know the game inside and out i use some add ons and friends have recommended more. I do look at pathing videos and have looked up tips. Imo wow made the game ALOT easier but personally i dont enjoy that every class is good at everything. I like when the mage can pick between aoe, single target, cc or a rouge can nuke a boss. The game feels bland now. Just learn you rotations and learn whens a good time to utilize utility and defensives and use very basic coms like delegating one person to a kick.
Maybe it's cause season 1 just sucks, but i have no desire to tank in m+, but I love tanking the raid tier. ThoeontI dont mind healing all content, as we are in high demand as always. If people start shit or disprespect, i can just leave and find another group in 10 seconds. Feels nice.
I main resto Druid. Personally I don’t really enjoy healing the moment we have mythic dungeons and expecting healers to dps. In TWW it’s worst, every mechanics is like punishing healers. On top of game mechanics, tanks with high mobility is like poof if they go and expecting healers to catch up. Some class drains mana very fast and have to beg for mage tables etc.. in overall it’s just so much pressure
Was doing a +8 NW Fort and did a triple, or maybe quad pull if the start, told the group to lust....never did. And as. Demon Hunter tank, no DK...DH...I needed to do 2m HPS to keep myself alive and was getting very worried because my healer friend doesn't understand I need to be healed more than dps this season. If a dps dies that 100% fine. If I die on a pack of 16 mobs, we are very screwed.
I’ve tanked and healed for 15 years now. But tanking is my first choice, I saw how bad healers were struggling in +5’s and I genuinely thought that it was just a skill issue and new players… Two months in I decided to ditch focusing on tanking on my pally and go to healing, and also brought my Druid and priest into the mix. Needless to say, it’s a complete train wreck, I am a 20 year veteran player, that reads all of the racial passives and passive bonuses know how to lineup Procs and pre-pot … I know the abilities and specials of the mobs that I pull, and I’ll be the first one to tell you that there is no taking it easy in mythic plus, there is ZERO light heartedness between pulls… Nothing fun or funny … It’s 100% square business… and very rarely, do you find a group that is as experienced as you and knows as much as you know and plays their class exceptionally to where it’s a breeze… it’s out there, just rare as usually those people are in their mid 30s or 40s and have jobs. I’m glad you said something about Delves …. Because I have noticed a shocking amount of people who’ve obtained a 620 ilvl in delves(something my 7 year old autistic child can do with a one button macro) coming into these M+’s thinking that they are just going to nuke the mobs and that’s it… like I know this is so cringe because we all know this … CC’ing and interrupting is something everyone mentions and complains about, but like deadass …. There are so many newer players, or people that are not used to doing Mythics They don’t understand that it is actually a critical component to timing dungeons… like there are things you must do… They just see it as a tank or healer problem. I ran 6 +10’s and got a sack of 60 gold every time until finally on the 7th I got a shitty neck piece with sub par stats for hat I couldn’t even use.
616 ilevel on my tank and I have not stepped into a single mythic or raid, all delves. My healer is not far behind, why pug and cop the toxic as a healer when I can tank and heal to my hearts content in delves with no stress and good gear rewards?
@@joaovitorr3251 gear is just the scorecard, its the personal improvement for me. I like pushing myself to play better every time I play, and the higher delves let me do that, I can go do plus 8s with my mates when I need to to keep pushing gear, meanwhile I am chilling and spreading the gear process across a couple of toons to see how evenly I can gear them lol. My days of top 100 mailbox flexing are well behind me, Im an old woman now, I like the mellow and dont have anything to prove with gaming these days, I did that in my youth hehe.
So my take on this might be a little different but also kinda the same. I’ve been healing m+ and getting KSM or sometimes KSH every patch I played since legion so I’m not new to it at all. But I’m also exhausted, healing m+ feels like doing sprints in the middle of a marathon. It seems like every timed instance of damage brings the entire group to 20% health and then you have to scramble to get everyone topped off before it happens again in a few seconds, and god help you if your class actually uses mana because you get zero time to drink. After getting ksm I retired and went absolutely casual and started leveling other characters and right now I’m taking my time in content that doesn’t matter on a blood dk because I’m so burnt out on healing.
Community is one issue. I used to love playing healer in DF. But in TWW, community just seems to have gotten more toxic. Another issue is that Blizzard basically took a shit on holy priests. Hero talents are absolute garbage in terms of design. I don't like the evoker ones either. So for me.. healing just fell of a cliff and i hopped back to DPS and tanking occasionally.
Ill say this forever, but, healing and tanking would not be that hated to do if they get + rewards after a key, if they assure u some loot by healing or tanking, then it pays itslef
What's crazy about TWW right now is it doesn't have Spiteful/Incorp or Spiteful/Aff, so I'm not literally soloing 2 affixes while keeping the group up simultaneously. It was Mass Roots and Typhoon Spiteful and then Cyclone Incorp, Afflicted demanded my Swiftmend combo otherwise I couldn't heal through it fast enough. Sham same thing, Hex incorp and knockback and Lasso Spiteful. Now that's all gone, except there are about 50x more casted nukes that get spammed nonstop and the tank falls over now in low keys. In DF, if the tank was normal and knew how to play, I basically didn't have to worry about them, they were light maintenance, usually Cen Warding them was enough for the entire dungeon or Efflo/Rain. They want healers to be cracked and struggle to carry bad DPS. This whole paradigm we're in is because of faceroll DPS and Blizzard's titanic vice grip and stinginess with interrupts. Each spec is lucky to get 1 interrupt and they only get ONE. They can't have 2, they can't have an interrupt protection, they can't have 3 on varying CDs, the design is so tight and it's not accomplishing anything.
I think they might just want high end healers to sweat... but when high end healers sweat, everyone else is already dead. I don't know why blizzard cares so much about what people are doing in their MDI. "Oh no they pulled big, we just have to ruin it all so they never pull big ever again", "what? no healers? Oh we'll show them, we'll show them hard", etc.
They definitely want groups assigning kicks. All it takes is an automaker weak aura and someone who says “DK you always inturrupt diamond, I’m getting star” etc
îm playing healer for the first time since last week. i pugged alot of 8 keys/hc raid to get gear and timed everything but CoT 12 with my friends. idk man i never got flamed for healing and im getting instantly invited to farm crests. healing is kinda awesome.
I am assure that the main problem is the squish .... best seasons for me have been season 1 and 3 of DF. I mained 1 as healer and 3 as dps / healer. You had a smooth learning curve because 1 to 10 was forgiving, affixes added late and boss mechanics were demanding but not as hard as today. This range of learning curve has completely been erased. The jump from heroic to M0 and M2 is absurd. Covered with people who farm delve gear and think they can just go into higher m+ cause its still in their heads that a +5 is a walk in the park but it isnt. I would appreciate if they bring back the old dungeon difficulties and there is no reason why not .... m+ is theoretically no limited you can go up to 40s or 50s whatever ... you can skip and they could make flawless dungeons with + 3 key reward or whatever. I like to heal still but i always need a break after 2 dungeons even if they are in time and its not really considered fun.
Litteraly had a +10 yesterday where my tank failed about 5 one shot mechanics, and my mage had almost zero interrupts.. and when we wiped, because the tank stood in bad, and the dps failed mechanics. The mage tried calling me out because of my talents, as if I had any ability to save them from being one shot. Logged off immediately. Hate playing the hardest role while people face roll keyboards and get blame me for their mistakes.
The problem is there is to damn many things that can either oneshot you or close to oneshot you that needs to be interrupted over and over and over again and of you dont have the entire team interrupt as They should someone Will do or multiple people Will die and the key Will die, low end keys aka anything below 11keys are to hard for the avarage pug and that makes people not interrested in playing m+, They made alot of changes going into TWW to m+ that did not work and still does not work. They need to revert the cc changes asap
I used to love healing on my alt. Havent touched it since WoD. as WOW got new players, started getting the newer generation of gamers, which happen to be newer generation of people. Now a days, its what I have coined the give me generation. Want it all now, without the work, or they half ass it.
I heal casually when I need to get a fast dungeon queue for a quest. I heal occasionally if I'm happy with how shadow plays. I won't touch M+ with a ten foot pole. I've healed raids when in a guild before if they needed it. Healing suffers from the same problems that shadow suffers from. Poor numbers tuning that focus on hps over a time segment instead of sensible individual spells tuning based on cast time cool down and immediacy of effect. A return to classic era tuning practices would make healers feel a lot better to play.
Yep. Burn out is the exact description. I don’t need this after a day of work. Haven’t even bothered to log on and check my vault this week, and I don’t think I’m going to. Done for the season.
Healing in DF and TWW feels a lot like the last 4 years in the US. We were kept being told everything was fine even though it was way harder and made us feel dead inside. I actually quit the role entirely. They need to make healing interesting for more than the 3 people who love the stressful shit show it is now.
healer is a most versitile role in wow right now. its really cool and enjoying to play. you are not the slave of your rotation and can press your buttons whenever you want. pugged every 9 key with my left foot and turned off monitor with rsham and hpal.
As if juggeling 10-20 peoples health was not already intensive enough, now they've added in a DPS melee rotation I must up keep or I lose healing power. This means when some jackass stands in melee range dropping AoE's on the raid, I'm losing healing power preventing me from keeping other people alive. Or you got the tank that does a Timewalker and expects the healer to be 615 ilvl and just runs in and grabs 10-15 mobs and then kicks you when you can't keep up 4 people standing in the AoE of 10-15 mobs.
This has completely nothing to do with "Farm gear in Delves Solo", not at all! And also this is not a TWW Problem, it's a Problem since... Legion i guess? The biggest Problem are all the "100 Button Smash Builds"! I Play Wow to "Relax and have Fun" and if i want "Challenging" Game im sure not playing Wow with "Artificial Simulated" Challenges by pressing 100 Different Buttons... it's just stupid! Also Tanks are no longer Tanks, they are just DD's with Tanking abilities. The "Balance" of Wow is totally Broken... in ANY way!
I always loved to heal m+ and push high. This season I just do my vault keys and get my 10's done for the Portals. I mainly have to pug my keys, what is very exhausting. Not because the dungeons are more difficult, thats fine. Mechanics can be learned and with more gear its getting easier. But in every key (10)you , have at least one totally undergeared person who gets carried. I mostly leave the key before we started. To play the own key... you can invite ppl with a decent rio and item lvl, how often your key gets killed by ppl not playing mechanics. If u say something then they say " it's just a 10, just heal we don't need to play mechanics." And yes some keys are going great and its fun to play. In low keys like a 4 you catch up with ppl who just dinged to 80. It's fine to carry friends even in high keys,but they shouldn't be able to que for a 10 key in lfg. They can organise a grp and go. Or it should be like it is in delves,you just can do a 10 lvl when you end the 9. The moment you did a 10 key in time you can que for 11. It's just an idea
People soon forget the fact maybe a person, regardless of how long they've played, have never taken on a healer or tank class, therefore not knowing the mechanics, but no, everyone's so toxic today, that they get toxic and this in turn just detours people from even trying to learn how to be a healer or tank. It's literally a lose lose for "everyone" not just a select few. Let face it, tanks and healers are pretty much the core of any group be it taids of delves or simple dungeons, and when you oust those people tanking or healing, you just make it bad for everyone, because eventually you won't find anyone that wants to be either of those. Maybe if people weren't so toxic, and maybe teach them as they go, things might change. I personally used to play healer but I will never play healer again, because of this fact. I am currently taking on tanking, and have never been a tank so this will be new to me. A little patience and understanding goes a long way people, remember that. Yes, there are some just bad tanks and healers but being toxic to generally all tanks and healers, just ends up being bad for everyone.
Every key as. Veng DH tank im doing 500-700k overall has and beating my healing by quite a large margin. DH you have to know how to play since we are leather users with barely any armor. If you don't defensive right you can die before you can react.
TWW rly made it feel weird to heal, I used to heal in wrath with no problem then I got really into M+ in shadowlands and even started carrying people in 20's but TWW feels rly different somehow, it's just not fun, not sure if it's the players or the dungeons but it feels super over tuned or mechanic bloated to the point where it's exhausting to bother getting back into.
IMO raiding is fine, it is M+ that is the problem. People treat you like a 4th dps support class. You are required to do dps while keeping the party alive, interrupt, take care of affix. All that only to get shit on by your team for the most riddiculous reason.
I feel like the big issue with M+ is lower population of healers and the squish has made dungeons/learning harder. Back in DF I would use 2-5 to learn mechanics and 15+ to challenge me. Doing 2s the first few weeks was challenging mostly because of dps or healing checks. I will say for me BDK and Pally feel the best to tank with because of self sustain and utility.
I've been healing main since BfA (and some on and off since MoP) and I've never been this miserable healing dungeon content as I am right now, I'm currently sitting at 7/8 Dungeons at timed +10 solely through pugs. Though it's a factor of multiple issues that blizzard really needs to adress for future seasons. First of all, any mistake a group makes - especially now that affixes are more or less gone and replaced by more mechanics on mobs - be it missing kicks, CCs or stuns, is offloaded to the healer instead of the rest of the group, so if something happens, the healer gets shit on. Blizzard should look into implementing something that punishes DPSs as well, take some stats away which will be noticable on the damage meters and which will in turn bring DPSs to concentrate more on playing mechanics instead of only pushing the meters. I'd rather have a key not timed for lack of overall DPS because the group is ignoring mechanics rather than the group downright wiping over and over because it's often enough not healable anymore. Healing should be challenging, but in a fun, balanced way and not how it is right now. This approach would also counteract pugs thinking they're special (like the pinned comment said) a little - hurt them where they notice it most.
That DK advice is goated, i ran with a really good BDK one time so i decided to ask him how to heal the average BDK snd thats exactly what they told, watch the RP and since i play a MW to maybe life cocoon on a fresh pull when the BDK is gathering. Since then BDK went from an avoid to top 3 i want to heal
Tanking Is the same mechanic for the past 8 years at least, it’s the easiest thing ever. The only issue and why I don’t play tank anymore is because I can’t compete on dmg with dps anymore. I used to do like 90% of a ret paladins dmg during bfa and shadowlands as prot paladin.
Healing is boring and blizz totally broke it. What needs to happen is the removal of a healer class - period. Instead, tanks should be able to self heal again, dps should get better survivability skills and the redundant healer could move towards a buff party and off heal support class that focuses more on dps. Blizz should also consider giving tank specs to more classes. IE - tank shammy totally makes sense. BM hunter tank spec where a specific pet is used as a tank. Overall, I think this will help speed queues up and make it easier overall for blizz to balance things.
I think this idea is pretty cool, the idea of no “real” healers and it being more of a support dps (which we now have precedent for via augvoker) is cool. However I don’t see it happening as it would require either A, a complete revamp of how classes are designed. As any party wide damage would require either everyone to be able to heal themselves, or a healer. Or alternatively there just wouldn’t be party wide unavoidable damage which would basically lead to all fights being you either do the mechs perfectly or die, pass/fail.
I regularly pug tens as a healer and have a lot of success. Even more so than when I take guildies. It is challenging but keeps it worth playing. Keys deplete mistakes happen. If you don’t have a ton of time to devote to playing mythic+ than maybe pick something else to delve into that’s a little less challenging( no pun intended)😂
I think complaining about Delves for m+ flaws is a bit redundant. I am glad peoole now realize after so many years how much of a crappy game mode m+ is. Strict timers, crummy affixes, horrible loot, meta slaves, toxic behavior...its just not good content never was. Its Diablo 3 greater rifts skinned over MoP/WoD challenge modes. Delves are awesome becaus they are a solution to the M+ problem. As fas as class balancing regarding healers/tanks/dps, the class arms race is the issue. Every class doesnt need to do everything period.
I’m sorry but I can’t stand the laziness of the general population here. “I shouldn’t have to look up UA-cam videos or guides” bullshit. In every aspect of life there’s always people who teach you something you don’t already know, or there’s a book of instructions or a UA-cam video of instructions explaining how to do shit. What’s the difference between you using those accessories to assist your ability to get better at whatever it is, but as soon as the same thing is applied to wow it’s suddenly too hard? I’ve NEVER gotten KSH before this season and I’m now KSH on 2 healers and 3 dps. I’m old and have kids and can’t play hours and hours a week so there’s just no excuse imho
Game would be same if you just didnt need heal, and just try to get biggest pulls and kill mobs in record time. What this ROLE playing game used to be is just long gone.
That tank meme feels inaccurate because I’ve healed a few Demon hunter tanks that walked into a mob and instantly dropped 😂😂😂 I think some of them don’t hit their damage mitigation abilities
DPS do not use personal defensives, stand in bad, etc & affixes like devour, explosive orbs, bursting as examples fall squarely on the healer instead of punishing the crappy DPS players.
It’s like they don’t realize if their tank does a larger pull they should just use a defensive a few seconds into it for the inevitable cast or two that’s gonna get through. I like to remind pugs at the start of a key since there’s usually a huge pull there.
After healing since vanilla 2006, through to MoP, coming back for legion, then DF and TWW and this is easily the most frustrating time I've had progressing. Players are toxic on a whole new level, if something goes wrong, despite whoes fault it is (usually a hollow-skull dps that starts the bitching the second things didn't simply end in 10 minutes with mythic loot falling in their lap, then either I or the tank get a boot. Only nice thing is watching them continue to be qued all day to make the heroic raid happen. Then don't forget you can't get heroic raid group unless you're in heroic raid level gear. No prob right? Was nice when you didnt need to mindlessly dial up difficulty with the same mechanics. RF/Standard/Heroic/Mythic etc? wtf. I preferred when you knew you were good because you made it to end content. Tho heroics in bc were ok. But the community cancer is really the core issue. I can put up with the small stuff, but I'm definitely not gonna be on trial when I'm trying to play a game.
The whole problem is defensive bloat. Healing is easy if people use them properly, super stressful if they don't. Case in point more hps required in a +4 than a +10 SV I ran back to back last weekend.
My intention to play this expansion was to have fun healing again with my Druid. Man was i wrong. My Complete arm now hurts after doing 3 m+ in a row… iam nearly done with ksh but damn iam not coming back.
Decided to swap from dps to heal this expansion, seems it was great timing 😂 managed to time an 8 so far and failed a 10. It’s a proper sweatfest fair play.
Remove dispels and affix control from healers and move it all to the DPS class. so healers should worry about healing would solve this. because thats how it is now! most DPS think their only job is DPSing... they don't move out of shit on the ground, they don't dispel themselves and they rarely use kicks. and mot of them dont know shit about the routes in dungeons or tactics on bosses.
It is true. I've been looking forward to coming into this new xpac as a healer. I even switched from my 13-year-old main warrior to be a healer because I wanted a change and I liked healing. But I have absolutely 0 NOTHING motivation to do them. It's not something I'm looking forward to it's something I'm worrying about when I'm doing m+. I got over 3k rating in DF and rn I'm sitting at 2300 trying to at least finish all dungeons on 10 and get a 2500 rating for transmog. But maaan how I don't want to. The way they changed tanks was supposed to make healing meaningful...what it caused is that when there are less experienced tanks you need to babysit them, heal them, and use CDs on them and it barely makes any difference because their HP jumps like yo-yo. Then you don't have said CDs for DPS players when you need them. I totally agree with that comment on Reddit because I'm exhausted yes. I can do 1 or 2, and then I don't want to touch them for at least the rest of the day.
if it makes you feel any better the 2500 rating transmog item is pointless. everyone is getting a warrior helm that you cant use. Its either bugged or something but it does nothing.
@@Kevinvnk it is bugged. But I found a solution on the internet. Log out of the battle net and log in and you should get the rest of the tints. But you need to manually log out. Turning it off and on won't help.
tl:dr - Stop being lazy. You can learn, gear, and play your class at high-level in less than a couple weeks. Even if its literally the first time playing it. People are just too lazy to learn their class before thrusting thier inexperience on other players. I never played Shaman before, boosted one because Holy Priest absolutely sucks right now for M+. -- I leveled 70-75 in follower dungeons to learn my spells without inconveniencing other players, then finished leveling 75-80 in normal dungeons with players. When I hit 80, I spammed normals/delves until I was high enough to do heroics. I then spammed Heroics for several days while doing Bountiful Delves as often as I could -- I then had several pieces of Champion gear, which I maxed first because it caps at 619. At the my first week on Shaman ended at 611, week 2 ended at 619. Its now week 3 and I'm 624 and I have roughly a 2400 io.
So, hear me out; a solo game mode with objectives that you do, with a few (three, maybe) tiers that force you to do things related to your chosen spec that gives you a little reward or title or tag that states you've completed certain difficulty of content th- Wait a sec, didn't we have that for a while? Hmmmm.....
@joaovitorr3251 I'm having a good time, not noticing any issues or differences compared to previous seasons. Been healing all seasons since Legion, apart from S4 DF.
Last season " I dont wanna have to dps, im a healer i sh8uld heal". This season, here have it heal the party. " im tired i have to heal as a healer." You ppl just like to complain.
Blizzard needs to stop all the stupid aoe damage at once like how does it make sense for dam near every pull the group takes as much damage as the tanks lol of course healing is not fun if it's always aoe damage constantly kinda lazy if you ask me just my opinion
Actisoft (because Blizzard dissapeared long ago) needs to take their loss and admit that they totally fucked up M+ and the community needs to look in the mirror and know they helped create this environment. I consider myself a very good healer but no way I set foot in a pug in m+. Those toxic nosebugs are not worth my time nor energy. I'm lucky with a nice group. We don't do the highest keys but that's fine. I did higher keys in pug in the past but I did not enjoy it one bit. It's beyond me how those people still consider themselves as if they are the worlds best players because they dabble into a 15+ while they make so much misstakes themselves. No thanks. I rather take along a bunch of people who still have to learn but are grateful and motivated then those toxic bunch of nitwits that have no respect for anything but themselves. Actisoft actively fucked up the totality of m+ (and what not more) and need to take it out of the game if they'd ask me.
this is just stupidity, you should just play and have fun and get rewards. not fkn min max to the bones, make content look too easy because of you, the 1% players and than blizzard comes in, make every thing harder and fks the rest of 99% player base.
Always been a healer, comd back to wow s2 of DF never touching m+ before and fell in love, kept me coming back, got ksm on multiple chars only pugging over the next few seasons, TWW has crushed me, I physically can not pug anything over a 5...
depends what role you're playing, it's all about perspective. When I heal I hate dps players that don't use a single defensive in the whole dungeon As a tank I hate healers who keep their healing cd's for the next dungeon As a dps I hate dps that don't do their kick and/or cc Also I'm not REALLY hating on anyone, all i'm saying is if we have to blame anyone when playing as X role, I think it depends on the role you're playing
@ I tank as Protection Paladin since the beginning of the season and after the anniversary patch. Myself and the healer always have to interrupt in dungeons. I always save WOG Procs for my healer, myself or DPS under 30% health. It's always the DPS complaining about pulling slow or not big enough. You pull a bit more and then the DPS gets mopped because they think they know more than a tank and healer with higher IO than the DPS themselves across all their accounts. Majority of DPS join keys without knowing all the dungeon mechanics. If the DPS sucks ( meaning I'm either 1st or 2nd in DPS AS A TANK!!) or the DPS don't know mechanics or purposely ignore them putting more pressure on the healer.
2:30 not only that but blizzard designed healers around doing damage even though thats not what the majority of players wanted and then back tracked it in the war within but now we have many DPS talents that we have to take that are border line useless for some healers now. Also I do not like the fact that many healer specs now are forced to play damage/healing builds in order in AOE heal properly. When i heal i like to heal. I do not want 2 jobs in m+. So now healers are in a spot where we have to heal through burst AOE damage, dodge shit on the ground, move with boss/tank dispel party members and in some weeks dispel affix ALL AT THE SAME TIME.
Please, sorry to say, the wow reddit OP is being dramatic. I main healer in TWW and I'm having fun, sure there are stressful moments but I believe this player just wanted to get into keys quickly. Abuse? I ran into one toxic player out 80+ mythic plus runs. * Edit, I pug all my keys.
You are quite possibly the luckiest person I know. I’m a single rogue main with 2400 io and it takes me roughly 2-3 hours just to get into a group or fill my own key, and 90%+ of the time the key is bricked and people get attitude in nearly every key. None of my friends who are also 2.2k or higher io spend over 2-3 hours just to start a key, and only finish 10% of them due to leavers and extremely toxic behavior.
@@jamesdixon4232 100% disagree, i played M+ heavily in legion as a healer, doing stuff on the high end played first 2 seasons in BFA as well and it was incredibly hard and unsatisfying that me as a healer also had to focus A LOT on DPS-ing, people would complain if you wouldn't pull at least half the tank's DPS in every single run people would flame you, this was one of the reason i stopped playing the game back then because i love healing and it was just unfun. At the request of friends i restarted playing with TWW and I didnt even start as a healer, i started out as a paladin tank (oops my bad didn't know they were going to be shit in M+) switched to DPS and meanwhile i made an alt resto shaman just to test the waters. DPS-ing on the paladin just hurts my fingers and its incredibly hard to get into groups even with 2.6k R.IO. I've been playing the shaman more and more and got to 2.5k rating EASILY and i can say that most dungeons are super easy and fun, i put a dot up on bosses and mobs and sometimes i do lava burst, but it is sooooooooooo much better being allowed to focus on healing rather than dps-ing and off-healing that it's been extremely enjoyable. Yes you have to stun, yes you have to interrupt, yes you have to watch out on mechanics, but you had to do that before as well, that part hasn't changed, not having to DPS and people getting off on you for not dps-ing has genuinely been a breath of fresh air that i truly enjoy.
There is that old beware what you wish for. Wrath, people asked for harder dungeons, they got cata, people failed. Healers asked to do more healing and less dps, they asked for tanks to be not so self sufficient, they got both and healers now complain and are stressed. Delves are a real issue. Not one pce of my gear was from delves, was all keys but you can tell the people who geared through delves and think they can jump into a +5 and get out dpsd by the healer. Im having so much fun healing pugs this season. Once you get past the +8 area you find the people that better know what they are doing. As to toxic... Ive healed since wrath on the same toon. I can count on 3 fingers the amount of time ive been hacked on for my healing, and each time i deserved it. (one was this week lol)
we didnt ask for dps to not know how to use their kits, or dps who don't know what to interrupt, dont understand things like idk, mechanics and aggro and personal defensives. Do you know how many times I had to yell at a hunter to FD and have them go, oh its not on my keys....or mages who have no idea what an iceblock is, and think its all just pull big aoe the end. I have played at high levels in raid then mplus for apparently two decades if this birthday thing isnt lying, (god I am old lolcry) and this season, the crap from dps used to being carried through mechanics for too many years, I dipped out and I am not doing any mythic anything, delves are keeping me happy, I have the elevens if I want something to wear my brain out and push myself, and 616 ilevel just doing delves.
The problem with how stressfull healing is now, is the spiky damage in contrast to hp. Healing tanks is also fun, but not yoyo hp healing. Its a difference between nerfing self sustain and nerfing defensives. They did both. Nerfing self sustain alone would be perfect. That way tanks feel powerfull but needs some assistance when pushing challenging content
Delves are not a real issue. If you're inviting people into your keys with around a 610 ilvl with 0 mythic plus keys completed then that's your fault. The game gives you all the information you could ever ask for when deciding your group.
@@daketh4572 Yep and do people understand they can use hard stuns for fast interrupts to buy the second needed for mine to come off CD to kick the cast all together????
I've just let my sub expire until next season. I have around 22 alts at 600 ilvl just from doing four delves a week on them, I'm bored sick of delves. Mythic+ is pain more than pleasure, I got my dungeon portals with my bear and I don't care to push further. I killed the big spider in the raid the first week raid was available, I'm not in a guild and I don't care to pug heroic. I don't pvp. I don't care about money, imaginary money doubly-so. wtf do I do in the game now?
tell me any games when u did most of the easy content that gives youa nything more to do bro this is not your life this a game so if u dont like raid ,dungeons,pvp and solo player content what can any game do for you ?
just play something else like idk im pretty sure you dont have 8/8 MM or 2800+ RIO OR 2400 CR pvp so you dont push the game to where it can go just wait other patch or xpac so you can do the campaign quest with 22 chars
Switch games. Too much WoW is going to get you bored of playing it really fast especially if you run out of things to upgrade. Take it from me, I started my character 20 years ago, been on and off of WoW and missed numerous expansions, but I still come back to it every now and then. You just gotta refresh your brain, sometimes taking a really long break will make the game brand new to you. Like when I came back at the end of Dragonflight, I couldn't recognize the game anymore and I had to re-learn everything like a total noob. This alone made the game very interesting to me because there were a whole bunch of mechanics that were added during my time out. I can see very clearly that you need a long break... maybe even more than a year.
So you don't raid but consider yourself good enough as you killed a spider? M+ is a pain, Delves bore you and you don't or won't PvP because people like me will crush you underfoot and make you realise your place, at the bottom unless you decide to change your attitude to difficulty. Are you a good raider? No. PvP, no. Perhaps find a guild that has people in on your wavelength How about looking in your achievements and accomplishing something. You set no goals or bars or challenges then say - I'm bored what do I do now? 22 alts at 600 Ilvl? Anyone can do that dude, sounds like you played the game while asleep and then burned yourself out repeating the same thing again and again. In my journey of no expectation of where I'd end up I started with other activity like this. By expansions end I'd got Mythic Garrosh killed, gold In the Pandaria dungeon challenge and now I don't do any of that as I love PvP...for fun.
It's not the genuine mistakes that wear you down, it's the pugs that think they're special and don't need to do mechanics. They think everyone else can do them, it I should just heal them through it. Mistakes are fine. Laziness and selfishness are what kill it.
That's exactly right! And also, their cluelessness in their actions while acting like they are big chads carrying the dungeon run...
+4 with 889k HPS overall... Was giga sweaty after that 😂 ++8 less that 500k HPS overall, smooth as butter... That's the trouble.
And what the hell is with that new healer affix... I'm blowing Ascendance to burst the shield down then we're all bleeding out to pulsing AOE from a Tyran boss fight 🫣
I really don’t know why people refuse to use their defensives. I should not be pumping 700k hps in +2s on regular pulls.
Sounds like society at large. Its always the others' fault. Never me
For once in years ive started dpsing after maining only healer.
Im genuinely happier, dont give a damn, doing my dishes, being happy n doing chores IRL
Healing unironicly is depression
Same, but I do miss healing in PvP and PvE.
The thing I learnt as a healer, People die and it's not always your fault.
Healers anonymous 😅
sadly, a healer can't heal stupid. If someone dies and just blames the healer with no logical basis, they have issues.
Yeah, especially with amount of personal cooldowns classes have. It's half learning the mechanics of the fight.
I play Guardian Druid, started guardian end of S4 of SL, played Hunter before that, now I only tank and do everything as tank, hit 2500-2700 all 4 seasons of DF, and helped my group of friends who aren’t the best but aren’t the worst get 2000+ and 2500 a couple times, we enjoyed raising our gear then going into higher keys, This xpac with the addition of delves I think we’ve collectively done 1-2 +2s as a group and have checked out of M+ this season, we’re all about 605-615 ilvl, but no1 wants to stress to complete keys and none of us want to push to +8s to get myth crests and +10s to get Myth track, if the rewards structure never changed we would be in M+ every week, making tanks squishier so healers have something to heal just makes tanking less fun
Whenever I heal, it always feels like I did something wrong when someone dies.. even if the dps stood in fire, or the tank doesn’t press a cd or keep their basic mitigation up.
Man I realized pve’ers were ACTUALLY AWFUL when I healed heroic amyrdrassil raid for legendary axe. ( I’m a r1 ret paladin and top 1 world exp prot pal) I couldn’t believe why and how people wouldn’t pop defensives on aoe mechanics or anything. Like I’d see a hunter not use turtle of the entire raid when he should use it once every boss fight at least. No ice block ever, etc. No wonder pvp is dead, pve’ers can’t even fathom the difficulty of pvp. Above 2.4K it’s harder than mythic raiding lmao.
As a tank main it forsure happens the overhealing feels so bad as a DH. ill fuck the healer and the healer will often fuck me. Not to mention how many things dh rotates for damage mitigation it just gets rought to say whens the best time for heals to take over unless you burn all your cd which leaves dh very vulnerable. prot warrior felt brain dead for me but i know alot of healers like how smooth the health fluctuation is on prot.
It's not you Willow. For me there is being good at your class and a Zen master. The nature of the combat in PvP is for me the finishing school for that. If you can rise high in RBG or Arena and hold your own you are streets ahead of a general pve'er in every dept bar routinely doing the raids. You think faster, handle pressure better, oh shit moments are a cakewalk because it's still ten times slower than what's incoming directly at your from say an insane DK tracking your every move while a Hunter is laying down withering fire and CC on you plus healing, your positioning and situational awareness and on and on. The player who get's PvP is about I'd say 50 times more likely to be using their defensives on CD and will also have very high awareness and for what other players are doing and quickly adjust.
Ive been healing for about 3 years now. First as a mistweaver then to holy paladin and now back to mistweaving in TWW. I have reached KSH 3 times in a row and ive loved healing. it has been clear to me ever since i started healing that it needs alot of work in terms of ballance. now in TWW its the first time ive ever questioned myself why i put up with all the bullshit that people love to give healers. healing needs serious help and blizzard needs to look over what a healer should be and what our responsebilities should be. im honestly thinking of quiting the game untill this is sorted
I'm a fistweaving Mw and CBA with Pve who are generally bad players compared to your PvP dps player of the same class. I'll take my PvP buddy over a PvE same all day long. Lol, what have they done, I've gone from stand off MW to healing/finisher/target caller who is frying DPS with 3 Jade Lightning bursts at 1.1 M dmg each at 2.5 secs each and giggling Darth Sidious stylee "unlimited power" *crackle* DEAD.
As a tank everyone excepts you to pull the entire room, not every pull has to be huge, especially in m+. I might go through a TW dg and pull everything in the room but thats for shits and giggles. If I die o’well Ill make the run back, mythic dgs are a total different thing and dps needs to understand that. Ty for coming to my ted talk.
idt most people understand the pulls are to avoid overlapping to many mechanics. A prime example of this is all the adds just before the last boss. It shows you quickly what teams are good dps or bad.
I’m not a SUPER elite gamer but the last time I played I was 5/8M in Vault of the Incarnates and I was chilling in 20-23s sometimes pushing towards 24s and 25s. Just got back into WoW a week ago as a Disc priest, been healing some 8s at about 590 Ilvl. I think right now I’m 606 and I’ve done a few 10s and I hate it. The room for error is 0. You get 1 shit by everything, the damage is so bursty and so fast, you need to hit every global perfectly to keep people alive and it still feels like I just can’t move health bars up. I’m sure a lot of this is because of my item level but it’s just so stressful to be managing everything, cleansing, healing, good external usage, good defensive, using fear to stop the interrupts that your donkey teammates won’t interrupt, while also healing everyone. It’s just exhausting. There’s no ramping damage that you feel like you’re battling against. It’s just, everyone is at 100% hp, everyone is at 15% hp, better slam every button as fast as I possibly can while more damage is coming out. You’re casting a spell and a pool spawns at your feet and you’re fucking doomed. There’s a couple of heroic raid fights, idr the name but it’s the Dawnbreaker boss that you fight again. To me, that’s a great example of healing. There’s a steady ramping amount of damage. A couple burst windows, but it feels like if you manage your coorldowns properly you can heal the fight well. They need to make m+ have a bit more ramping damage and less 70% bursts you need to spot heal less you die to the next one.
I’m a resto Druid main and have been for a while. I’m 100% pug. My goal every season is to get to 2500io, then I’m completely comfortable doing normal stuff around wow. What I really hate with a passion is how there are so many tanks and/or groups that watch high-end mythic+ groups on twitch or the blasted MDI and think that’s how EVERYONE should play. Fawk that non-sense. They ain’t geared or skilled to play like that. Neither am I, but my expectations are in line with my skill level. If a mythic + can be run nice and smooth and still time, I’m 1000% okay.
As a Hpal I feel overwhelmed this season.
Healing has always been the game's worst role for numerous reasons, but M+ is overwhelmingly the worst thing they've added to the game in decades.
After SL, I will not and have not participated in M+ content. It's uninteresting, it's all in on killing you for the smallest of mistakes or heaven forbid having a lag moment where you don't get an interrupt off for one reason or another, people are toxic, and the rewards are, frequently for me personally, *actually nothing.* I cannot tell you the number of times in BFA and SL that I got duplicate items of things I was already wearing, sometimes even already having higher ilvl, than what was in my chest or vault. In BFA I remember getting the same pair of M6 gloves for six weeks in a row.
I enjoy tanking at a high level. I'm even arguably good at it, given enough exposure to the content. Since M+ basically changes the content, altering which enemies need to be spiked first and which ones can/should be held, I hate it for that reason alone. Also, you're using an addon for PATHS?! Really, this is what dungeoning has become? It's not enough that you louts make WeakAuras to tell you what to do and when to do it, not enough that we have boss mods that yell at you for things you should already be generally aware of, but now the demands are having your PATH mapped out for you?
Frankly, the above is another reason I was done with M+ in BFA, let alone SL, and refused to touch it in DF. People deciding 'their' path was 'correct.' I pull things a certain way because I don't like to die stupidly. Remember doing BRD in Vanilla? You pulled deliberately and carefully and the mark of a good tank was someone who could make those decisions. But now everyone wants to lead the group and not let the tank do their job and pull what they think they can best handle. You ALL are the problem with M+.
didnt read. its not that bad. get good. -rsham main 2500
I healed in wow from classic till i quit mop. I came back this xpac and i had to switch to tank on my druid and pally.
Healing is not fun when your heals outside of cd feel pointless. My pally and guardian should not be beating or less than 10%hps difference than the healer in the group.
Just my opinion lol.
It's their insane way of adding "complexity". People complain too much when managing mana is hard, so instead they just want people to manage CDs. imo, managing CDs suck. My favorite healer moments from the older expansions were always when shit hit the fan and through twitchy reactions and good planning I managed to keep everyone alive anyway, but you can't do that these days, if you spend CDs to keep someone alive outside of the "right time", then the right time comes and everyone dies.
Healers are no longer able to fix mistakes, even though that is their job. So it'd be better to just make mistakes no longer their job
Healing in those expansions were beyond easy. Its definitely not rewarding enough currently but coming from the ancient days of wow healing into tww mustve been shocking.
@@gohomehero compared to classic yes, but the later stages of wrath and cata i actually found harder than the healing now. just the healing though. now there are alot more mechanics, interupts, and dmg dealing to do while healing.
but now every class also has insane sustain so the healing isnt hard per se. Like, with my guardian i do over 600k hps and am usually tied or just under my healers over all healing in the mythic. its just annoying that if a dps or tank misses a defensive they are dead and i as the heals cant do anything about it.
in wrath a tanks health would go down 90% but my spammed holy light would immediately top him up. much more big swings of health making me as a heals feel very impactful.
now someone drops 90% health, if they dont use a defensive or self heal it will take a few globals from me to get them back up, making my heals feel worthless.
They need to fix the interrupt issue, in pugs atm interrupts is the biggest keykiller, there are to many lethal killer casts that needs to be interrupted at the same time and in pugs where you cant coordinate kicks and Everyone kicks the same target every interrupt goes on cool down and you cant kick the other 5 things you need to interrupt, They need to interrupt a grace period, of something gets interrupted and then 3 other interrupts gets cash on the same target within 1-2 seconds on the same target those interrupts need to no go on cool down
Yeah tapped out on healing a 2 weeks ago. It felt like trash. Feels completely irrelevant when 80% of the relevant content 1 shots your group. There’s nothing I can do for the majority of peoples deaths. It feels completely underwhelming. Whats worse is they someone how think it’s my fault they took 11.5 million damage from a frontal and didn’t heal them instantly. Then I get yelled at by a dps under 600k dps for not running APT on RSham….that talent is dog $hite! Nah thanks, just went to prot warrior and ret paladin like I should have from launch of TWW. I’ll never main a healer for an expansion launch again. F@ck me for trying to be less selfish!….
(Don’t get me started on the unavoidable group aoes) 😡 😡
It doesn’t help that Delves for healers can be rough with Brann lacking a tank spec. 😊
I'm a healer main -- it honestly feels nice to feel like you're NEEDED now. If you learn the dungeons and know how to be prepared for each pull, it's not *easy* but it is definitely a fun challenge that is doable. It really comes down to the tank pacing, still. If a tank thinks just because he's able to survive a pull that means everyone else can, that's when you get in trouble. Stuff like double throw flesh in NW on a Fort week or a +10 or higher and a DPS gets 1 shot. I do agree that it's not as easy to get consistent runs in when you have to pug tanks a lot, but it is definitely doable. I got to 2500 rating pretty easily with Disc and pugged just about all of it.
Delves saved the expansion for me. No one ever invited or joined my 8level delves so i soloed them screw the crappy wow community. They need to keep solo content rolling.
Delves are so boring and pis easy
I think group content is at the core of WoW though, you make a solo version of dungeon and raid content but it will always been a downscaled version
solo is quicker and easier than a group delve bro what are u smoking there? u dont know that?
Defeats the purpose of an mmo though really?
@@scottthomas8721”community” is the reason for an MMO. Not ridiculously hard content that wears you out.
I am a healer main, this season has been really rough for sure. Tank and healer life has been better.
I would love to see a modernized proving grounds for M+. I think a lot of players literally have no idea how powerful their Damage Reduction and Self Heal abilities are. Even POTIONS!!!!!!!!
Also, I am disappointed in how the M0 and heroic changes have worked out for teaching players dungeon mechanics. Personally I think its time for DBM to be built into the base game to help teach players. Or maybe using follower dungeon tech to teach mechanics.
AND PLEASE for the love of god can we get a universal design language for things on the floor...frontals, swirlies, soaks, charges. Grim Batol has great line spell effects but the Earthen in Stonevault that Charge just get an arrow that is harder to see from range.
Genuinely insane to me when people go into an M+ dungeon with no pots. That shit saves lives. I main hunter so defensives are fairly sparse and the amount of times I’ve been sitting there with everything on cd during a long boss fight and been able to pop a pot and get myself from sub 20% to near max is game is wild.
It's actually much easier to heal in 12+, below that you will see people not kicking, not using their defensive, not standing in the AOE healing (Efflorescence, healing rain, etc.). Those people tend to blame healers since they don't even know how healing works in the game. And, they always say that "Why am I supposed to stand in there?? I'm a ranged dps". Most of them don't even know how warcraft log works... so it's even hard to discuss with them. And, I don't know why, but they are often hunter or mage, lol.
Scarab Lord Suntzu - Tich (H)&(A) Rdru's
we dont burn out, we grind !.....I live in Arena's and stay safe in my garrison : )
Anyone who needs a healer who can heal all content ...pst
Edit: biggest issue I notice was reading the in game material ALOT of VERY important things are not included. I didnt know until I looked up other players approach.
im a casual played legion the most. played the first part of shadow lands and only have done lfr. I got 2500 the second week as a tank. imo it was very easy but you can REALLY tell the difference between a good/bad group. I did play with a duo and that was nice because he know my pulls where i was going and so on. Example some people on dawn dont like you to move when the general or second boss fear. Others will rage and insta leave if you dont. Thankfully as tank it was easy to push my key and get parties. I made a warrior week 3 for dps couldnt get groups quick with 2525 io week 3 so I played prot. Hit 2k io at 590gs and got my first myth piece at 605 gs now my warrior sits at 610 and I do just 8 10s for vault and I main the dh which feels REALLY bad in pubs but with a good team he feals REALLY good. where prot feels ez mode in pubs but ehhh in good teams. Still good but you feel less useful imo. Again im not claiming i know the game inside and out i use some add ons and friends have recommended more. I do look at pathing videos and have looked up tips. Imo wow made the game ALOT easier but personally i dont enjoy that every class is good at everything. I like when the mage can pick between aoe, single target, cc or a rouge can nuke a boss. The game feels bland now. Just learn you rotations and learn whens a good time to utilize utility and defensives and use very basic coms like delegating one person to a kick.
Maybe it's cause season 1 just sucks, but i have no desire to tank in m+, but I love tanking the raid tier. ThoeontI dont mind healing all content, as we are in high demand as always. If people start shit or disprespect, i can just leave and find another group in 10 seconds. Feels nice.
I main resto Druid. Personally I don’t really enjoy healing the moment we have mythic dungeons and expecting healers to dps. In TWW it’s worst, every mechanics is like punishing healers. On top of game mechanics, tanks with high mobility is like poof if they go and expecting healers to catch up. Some class drains mana very fast and have to beg for mage tables etc.. in overall it’s just so much pressure
Was doing a +8 NW Fort and did a triple, or maybe quad pull if the start, told the group to lust....never did. And as. Demon Hunter tank, no DK...DH...I needed to do 2m HPS to keep myself alive and was getting very worried because my healer friend doesn't understand I need to be healed more than dps this season. If a dps dies that 100% fine. If I die on a pack of 16 mobs, we are very screwed.
I’ve tanked and healed for 15 years now. But tanking is my first choice, I saw how bad healers were struggling in +5’s and I genuinely thought that it was just a skill issue and new players… Two months in I decided to ditch focusing on tanking on my pally and go to healing, and also brought my Druid and priest into the mix.
Needless to say, it’s a complete train wreck, I am a 20 year veteran player, that reads all of the racial passives and passive bonuses know how to lineup Procs and pre-pot … I know the abilities and specials of the mobs that I pull, and I’ll be the first one to tell you that there is no taking it easy in mythic plus, there is ZERO light heartedness between pulls… Nothing fun or funny … It’s 100% square business… and very rarely, do you find a group that is as experienced as you and knows as much as you know and plays their class exceptionally to where it’s a breeze… it’s out there, just rare as usually those people are in their mid 30s or 40s and have jobs.
I’m glad you said something about Delves …. Because I have noticed a shocking amount of people who’ve obtained a 620 ilvl in delves(something my 7 year old autistic child can do with a one button macro) coming into these M+’s thinking that they are just going to nuke the mobs and that’s it… like I know this is so cringe because we all know this … CC’ing and interrupting is something everyone mentions and complains about, but like deadass …. There are so many newer players, or people that are not used to doing Mythics They don’t understand that it is actually a critical component to timing dungeons… like there are things you must do… They just see it as a tank or healer problem.
I ran 6 +10’s and got a sack of 60 gold every time until finally on the 7th I got a shitty neck piece with sub par stats for hat I couldn’t even use.
616 ilevel on my tank and I have not stepped into a single mythic or raid, all delves. My healer is not far behind, why pug and cop the toxic as a healer when I can tank and heal to my hearts content in delves with no stress and good gear rewards?
But why get gear if you’re not using it to progress into harder content?
@@joaovitorr3251 gear is just the scorecard, its the personal improvement for me. I like pushing myself to play better every time I play, and the higher delves let me do that, I can go do plus 8s with my mates when I need to to keep pushing gear, meanwhile I am chilling and spreading the gear process across a couple of toons to see how evenly I can gear them lol. My days of top 100 mailbox flexing are well behind me, Im an old woman now, I like the mellow and dont have anything to prove with gaming these days, I did that in my youth hehe.
So my take on this might be a little different but also kinda the same. I’ve been healing m+ and getting KSM or sometimes KSH every patch I played since legion so I’m not new to it at all. But I’m also exhausted, healing m+ feels like doing sprints in the middle of a marathon. It seems like every timed instance of damage brings the entire group to 20% health and then you have to scramble to get everyone topped off before it happens again in a few seconds, and god help you if your class actually uses mana because you get zero time to drink. After getting ksm I retired and went absolutely casual and started leveling other characters and right now I’m taking my time in content that doesn’t matter on a blood dk because I’m so burnt out on healing.
Me doing 1m healing and dps die so they type in chat “healer?” I swear I need to talk down on them don’t stand in pool dum dum me no heal dat
Community is one issue. I used to love playing healer in DF. But in TWW, community just seems to have gotten more toxic. Another issue is that Blizzard basically took a shit on holy priests. Hero talents are absolute garbage in terms of design. I don't like the evoker ones either. So for me.. healing just fell of a cliff and i hopped back to DPS and tanking occasionally.
Ill say this forever, but, healing and tanking would not be that hated to do if they get + rewards after a key, if they assure u some loot by healing or tanking, then it pays itslef
What's crazy about TWW right now is it doesn't have Spiteful/Incorp or Spiteful/Aff, so I'm not literally soloing 2 affixes while keeping the group up simultaneously. It was Mass Roots and Typhoon Spiteful and then Cyclone Incorp, Afflicted demanded my Swiftmend combo otherwise I couldn't heal through it fast enough. Sham same thing, Hex incorp and knockback and Lasso Spiteful.
Now that's all gone, except there are about 50x more casted nukes that get spammed nonstop and the tank falls over now in low keys. In DF, if the tank was normal and knew how to play, I basically didn't have to worry about them, they were light maintenance, usually Cen Warding them was enough for the entire dungeon or Efflo/Rain.
They want healers to be cracked and struggle to carry bad DPS. This whole paradigm we're in is because of faceroll DPS and Blizzard's titanic vice grip and stinginess with interrupts. Each spec is lucky to get 1 interrupt and they only get ONE. They can't have 2, they can't have an interrupt protection, they can't have 3 on varying CDs, the design is so tight and it's not accomplishing anything.
I think they might just want high end healers to sweat... but when high end healers sweat, everyone else is already dead.
I don't know why blizzard cares so much about what people are doing in their MDI. "Oh no they pulled big, we just have to ruin it all so they never pull big ever again", "what? no healers? Oh we'll show them, we'll show them hard", etc.
They definitely want groups assigning kicks. All it takes is an automaker weak aura and someone who says “DK you always inturrupt diamond, I’m getting star” etc
îm playing healer for the first time since last week. i pugged alot of 8 keys/hc raid to get gear and timed everything but CoT 12 with my friends. idk man i never got flamed for healing and im getting instantly invited to farm crests. healing is kinda awesome.
I am assure that the main problem is the squish .... best seasons for me have been season 1 and 3 of DF. I mained 1 as healer and 3 as dps / healer. You had a smooth learning curve because 1 to 10 was forgiving, affixes added late and boss mechanics were demanding but not as hard as today. This range of learning curve has completely been erased. The jump from heroic to M0 and M2 is absurd. Covered with people who farm delve gear and think they can just go into higher m+ cause its still in their heads that a +5 is a walk in the park but it isnt. I would appreciate if they bring back the old dungeon difficulties and there is no reason why not .... m+ is theoretically no limited you can go up to 40s or 50s whatever ... you can skip and they could make flawless dungeons with + 3 key reward or whatever. I like to heal still but i always need a break after 2 dungeons even if they are in time and its not really considered fun.
Litteraly had a +10 yesterday where my tank failed about 5 one shot mechanics, and my mage had almost zero interrupts.. and when we wiped, because the tank stood in bad, and the dps failed mechanics. The mage tried calling me out because of my talents, as if I had any ability to save them from being one shot. Logged off immediately. Hate playing the hardest role while people face roll keyboards and get blame me for their mistakes.
The problem is there is to damn many things that can either oneshot you or close to oneshot you that needs to be interrupted over and over and over again and of you dont have the entire team interrupt as They should someone Will do or multiple people Will die and the key Will die, low end keys aka anything below 11keys are to hard for the avarage pug and that makes people not interrested in playing m+, They made alot of changes going into TWW to m+ that did not work and still does not work. They need to revert the cc changes asap
I used to love healing on my alt. Havent touched it since WoD. as WOW got new players, started getting the newer generation of gamers, which happen to be newer generation of people. Now a days, its what I have coined the give me generation. Want it all now, without the work, or they half ass it.
I heal casually when I need to get a fast dungeon queue for a quest. I heal occasionally if I'm happy with how shadow plays. I won't touch M+ with a ten foot pole. I've healed raids when in a guild before if they needed it. Healing suffers from the same problems that shadow suffers from. Poor numbers tuning that focus on hps over a time segment instead of sensible individual spells tuning based on cast time cool down and immediacy of effect. A return to classic era tuning practices would make healers feel a lot better to play.
If the delves gave reward after tier 8 I'd keep going until mobs one shot and still keep trying.
Yep. Burn out is the exact description. I don’t need this after a day of work. Haven’t even bothered to log on and check my vault this week, and I don’t think I’m going to. Done for the season.
Make delves harder folks will not do them Not everyone wants to push themselves into harder content.
The delves arent the problem. People playing mythics like they are in the MDI is the problem.
Healing in DF and TWW feels a lot like the last 4 years in the US. We were kept being told everything was fine even though it was way harder and made us feel dead inside. I actually quit the role entirely. They need to make healing interesting for more than the 3 people who love the stressful shit show it is now.
Problem is mythic plus is just so toxic. Let players enjoy delves while being rewarding.
healer is a most versitile role in wow right now. its really cool and enjoying to play. you are not the slave of your rotation and can press your buttons whenever you want. pugged every 9 key with my left foot and turned off monitor with rsham and hpal.
As if juggeling 10-20 peoples health was not already intensive enough, now they've added in a DPS melee rotation I must up keep or I lose healing power. This means when some jackass stands in melee range dropping AoE's on the raid, I'm losing healing power preventing me from keeping other people alive. Or you got the tank that does a Timewalker and expects the healer to be 615 ilvl and just runs in and grabs 10-15 mobs and then kicks you when you can't keep up 4 people standing in the AoE of 10-15 mobs.
This has completely nothing to do with "Farm gear in Delves Solo", not at all!
And also this is not a TWW Problem, it's a Problem since... Legion i guess?
The biggest Problem are all the "100 Button Smash Builds"!
I Play Wow to "Relax and have Fun" and if i want "Challenging" Game im sure not playing Wow with "Artificial Simulated" Challenges by pressing 100 Different Buttons... it's just stupid!
Also Tanks are no longer Tanks, they are just DD's with Tanking abilities.
The "Balance" of Wow is totally Broken... in ANY way!
I always loved to heal m+ and push high. This season I just do my vault keys and get my 10's done for the Portals. I mainly have to pug my keys, what is very exhausting. Not because the dungeons are more difficult, thats fine. Mechanics can be learned and with more gear its getting easier. But in every key (10)you , have at least one totally undergeared person who gets carried. I mostly leave the key before we started. To play the own key... you can invite ppl with a decent rio and item lvl, how often your key gets killed by ppl not playing mechanics. If u say something then they say " it's just a 10, just heal we don't need to play mechanics." And yes some keys are going great and its fun to play.
In low keys like a 4 you catch up with ppl who just dinged to 80.
It's fine to carry friends even in high keys,but they shouldn't be able to que for a 10 key in lfg. They can organise a grp and go. Or it should be like it is in delves,you just can do a 10 lvl when you end the 9.
The moment you did a 10 key in time you can que for 11.
It's just an idea
People soon forget the fact maybe a person, regardless of how long they've played, have never taken on a healer or tank class, therefore not knowing the mechanics, but no, everyone's so toxic today, that they get toxic and this in turn just detours people from even trying to learn how to be a healer or tank. It's literally a lose lose for "everyone" not just a select few.
Let face it, tanks and healers are pretty much the core of any group be it taids of delves or simple dungeons, and when you oust those people tanking or healing, you just make it bad for everyone, because eventually you won't find anyone that wants to be either of those.
Maybe if people weren't so toxic, and maybe teach them as they go, things might change.
I personally used to play healer but I will never play healer again, because of this fact. I am currently taking on tanking, and have never been a tank so this will be new to me.
A little patience and understanding goes a long way people, remember that. Yes, there are some just bad tanks and healers but being toxic to generally all tanks and healers, just ends up being bad for everyone.
Every key as. Veng DH tank im doing 500-700k overall has and beating my healing by quite a large margin. DH you have to know how to play since we are leather users with barely any armor. If you don't defensive right you can die before you can react.
TWW rly made it feel weird to heal, I used to heal in wrath with no problem then I got really into M+ in shadowlands and even started carrying people in 20's but TWW feels rly different somehow, it's just not fun, not sure if it's the players or the dungeons but it feels super over tuned or mechanic bloated to the point where it's exhausting to bother getting back into.
IMO raiding is fine, it is M+ that is the problem. People treat you like a 4th dps support class. You are required to do dps while keeping the party alive, interrupt, take care of affix. All that only to get shit on by your team for the most riddiculous reason.
Its simple at the beginning of every pug and in every sign up i say very plainly "I don't heal stupid, I'm not here so you can ignore mechanics"
I feel like the big issue with M+ is lower population of healers and the squish has made dungeons/learning harder. Back in DF I would use 2-5 to learn mechanics and 15+ to challenge me. Doing 2s the first few weeks was challenging mostly because of dps or healing checks. I will say for me BDK and Pally feel the best to tank with because of self sustain and utility.
I've been healing main since BfA (and some on and off since MoP) and I've never been this miserable healing dungeon content as I am right now, I'm currently sitting at 7/8 Dungeons at timed +10 solely through pugs. Though it's a factor of multiple issues that blizzard really needs to adress for future seasons. First of all, any mistake a group makes - especially now that affixes are more or less gone and replaced by more mechanics on mobs - be it missing kicks, CCs or stuns, is offloaded to the healer instead of the rest of the group, so if something happens, the healer gets shit on.
Blizzard should look into implementing something that punishes DPSs as well, take some stats away which will be noticable on the damage meters and which will in turn bring DPSs to concentrate more on playing mechanics instead of only pushing the meters. I'd rather have a key not timed for lack of overall DPS because the group is ignoring mechanics rather than the group downright wiping over and over because it's often enough not healable anymore. Healing should be challenging, but in a fun, balanced way and not how it is right now.
This approach would also counteract pugs thinking they're special (like the pinned comment said) a little - hurt them where they notice it most.
That DK advice is goated, i ran with a really good BDK one time so i decided to ask him how to heal the average BDK snd thats exactly what they told, watch the RP and since i play a MW to maybe life cocoon on a fresh pull when the BDK is gathering. Since then BDK went from an avoid to top 3 i want to heal
Me with my pala I needed 618 to fill safe healing m+8. I'm 621 now, and m+10 is still hard for me. I think I need to get to 626....
I'm healer and tank and is it no fun at all anymore
Tanking Is the same mechanic for the past 8 years at least, it’s the easiest thing ever. The only issue and why I don’t play tank anymore is because I can’t compete on dmg with dps anymore. I used to do like 90% of a ret paladins dmg during bfa and shadowlands as prot paladin.
I miss legion m+. That was the glory days. The dungeons themselves were good. You didn’t need affixes. And it was so much better that way
Algorithm brought me here, gained a new sub! You're awesome
They should add a downed state once per life. So healer can ST heal you back up and if you die again youre dead til rez/release.
Healing is boring and blizz totally broke it. What needs to happen is the removal of a healer class - period. Instead, tanks should be able to self heal again, dps should get better survivability skills and the redundant healer could move towards a buff party and off heal support class that focuses more on dps. Blizz should also consider giving tank specs to more classes. IE - tank shammy totally makes sense. BM hunter tank spec where a specific pet is used as a tank. Overall, I think this will help speed queues up and make it easier overall for blizz to balance things.
I think this idea is pretty cool, the idea of no “real” healers and it being more of a support dps (which we now have precedent for via augvoker) is cool. However I don’t see it happening as it would require either A, a complete revamp of how classes are designed. As any party wide damage would require either everyone to be able to heal themselves, or a healer. Or alternatively there just wouldn’t be party wide unavoidable damage which would basically lead to all fights being you either do the mechs perfectly or die, pass/fail.
Healer here. Unsubbed 6 weeks ago. I'd like to play but it is a literal nightmare.
I tried to play healer a Disc Priest, it simply was boring and the rotation was boring too
I regularly pug tens as a healer and have a lot of success. Even more so than when I take guildies. It is challenging but keeps it worth playing. Keys deplete mistakes happen. If you don’t have a ton of time to devote to playing mythic+ than maybe pick something else to delve into that’s a little less challenging( no pun intended)😂
I think complaining about Delves for m+ flaws is a bit redundant. I am glad peoole now realize after so many years how much of a crappy game mode m+ is. Strict timers, crummy affixes, horrible loot, meta slaves, toxic behavior...its just not good content never was. Its Diablo 3 greater rifts skinned over MoP/WoD challenge modes. Delves are awesome becaus they are a solution to the M+ problem. As fas as class balancing regarding healers/tanks/dps, the class arms race is the issue. Every class doesnt need to do everything period.
I’m sorry but I can’t stand the laziness of the general population here. “I shouldn’t have to look up UA-cam videos or guides” bullshit. In every aspect of life there’s always people who teach you something you don’t already know, or there’s a book of instructions or a UA-cam video of instructions explaining how to do shit. What’s the difference between you using those accessories to assist your ability to get better at whatever it is, but as soon as the same thing is applied to wow it’s suddenly too hard? I’ve NEVER gotten KSH before this season and I’m now KSH on 2 healers and 3 dps. I’m old and have kids and can’t play hours and hours a week so there’s just no excuse imho
Game would be same if you just didnt need heal, and just try to get biggest pulls and kill mobs in record time. What this ROLE playing game used to be is just long gone.
That tank meme feels inaccurate because I’ve healed a few Demon hunter tanks that walked into a mob and instantly dropped 😂😂😂 I think some of them don’t hit their damage mitigation abilities
Yea Im tired. Especially mythic+ is just full stress and no fun.
It's the playerbase. Wow culture has simply degenerated. Even if the game changes, players will ruin things for everyone.
DPS do not use personal defensives, stand in bad, etc & affixes like devour, explosive orbs, bursting as examples fall squarely on the healer instead of punishing the crappy DPS players.
It’s like they don’t realize if their tank does a larger pull they should just use a defensive a few seconds into it for the inevitable cast or two that’s gonna get through. I like to remind pugs at the start of a key since there’s usually a huge pull there.
After healing since vanilla 2006, through to MoP, coming back for legion, then DF and TWW and this is easily the most frustrating time I've had progressing. Players are toxic on a whole new level, if something goes wrong, despite whoes fault it is (usually a hollow-skull dps that starts the bitching the second things didn't simply end in 10 minutes with mythic loot falling in their lap, then either I or the tank get a boot. Only nice thing is watching them continue to be qued all day to make the heroic raid happen. Then don't forget you can't get heroic raid group unless you're in heroic raid level gear. No prob right? Was nice when you didnt need to mindlessly dial up difficulty with the same mechanics. RF/Standard/Heroic/Mythic etc? wtf. I preferred when you knew you were good because you made it to end content. Tho heroics in bc were ok. But the community cancer is really the core issue. I can put up with the small stuff, but I'm definitely not gonna be on trial when I'm trying to play a game.
The whole problem is defensive bloat. Healing is easy if people use them properly, super stressful if they don't.
Case in point more hps required in a +4 than a +10 SV I ran back to back last weekend.
My intention to play this expansion was to have fun healing again with my Druid. Man was i wrong. My Complete arm now hurts after doing 3 m+ in a row… iam nearly done with ksh but damn iam not coming back.
Hahahaha the raid is super fun as rDruid. M+ not so much.
Decided to swap from dps to heal this expansion, seems it was great timing 😂 managed to time an 8 so far and failed a 10. It’s a proper sweatfest fair play.
Remove dispels and affix control from healers and move it all to the DPS class. so healers should worry about healing would solve this. because thats how it is now! most DPS think their only job is DPSing... they don't move out of shit on the ground, they don't dispel themselves and they rarely use kicks. and mot of them dont know shit about the routes in dungeons or tactics on bosses.
It is true. I've been looking forward to coming into this new xpac as a healer. I even switched from my 13-year-old main warrior to be a healer because I wanted a change and I liked healing. But I have absolutely 0 NOTHING motivation to do them. It's not something I'm looking forward to it's something I'm worrying about when I'm doing m+. I got over 3k rating in DF and rn I'm sitting at 2300 trying to at least finish all dungeons on 10 and get a 2500 rating for transmog. But maaan how I don't want to. The way they changed tanks was supposed to make healing meaningful...what it caused is that when there are less experienced tanks you need to babysit them, heal them, and use CDs on them and it barely makes any difference because their HP jumps like yo-yo. Then you don't have said CDs for DPS players when you need them. I totally agree with that comment on Reddit because I'm exhausted yes. I can do 1 or 2, and then I don't want to touch them for at least the rest of the day.
Come back to tankingggggg lol
if it makes you feel any better the 2500 rating transmog item is pointless. everyone is getting a warrior helm that you cant use. Its either bugged or something but it does nothing.
@@Kevinvnk so the only special effect item is a warrior's helm? That's just disappointing even more...
@@Kevinvnk it is bugged. But I found a solution on the internet. Log out of the battle net and log in and you should get the rest of the tints. But you need to manually log out. Turning it off and on won't help.
I just hate that I’m expected to dps.
tl:dr - Stop being lazy. You can learn, gear, and play your class at high-level in less than a couple weeks. Even if its literally the first time playing it.
People are just too lazy to learn their class before thrusting thier inexperience on other players.
I never played Shaman before, boosted one because Holy Priest absolutely sucks right now for M+. -- I leveled 70-75 in follower dungeons to learn my spells without inconveniencing other players, then finished leveling 75-80 in normal dungeons with players.
When I hit 80, I spammed normals/delves until I was high enough to do heroics. I then spammed Heroics for several days while doing Bountiful Delves as often as I could -- I then had several pieces of Champion gear, which I maxed first because it caps at 619.
At the my first week on Shaman ended at 611, week 2 ended at 619. Its now week 3 and I'm 624 and I have roughly a 2400 io.
So, hear me out; a solo game mode with objectives that you do, with a few (three, maybe) tiers that force you to do things related to your chosen spec that gives you a little reward or title or tag that states you've completed certain difficulty of content th- Wait a sec, didn't we have that for a while? Hmmmm.....
The problem isn't healing it's how spiky damage is and how low relative stamina is.
Ok, teach people. We all had to learn.
And then there is me, rolling back to healer this week just to have a more relaxing time. It's all about what you're used to, I suppose.
There no one used to this because this design of dungeons is different.
@joaovitorr3251 I'm having a good time, not noticing any issues or differences compared to previous seasons. Been healing all seasons since Legion, apart from S4 DF.
Healing is pvp basically, you are not fighting a boss, you are fighting the players in your group
I love how the healer protest is just them crying but the tank protest is a fuckin riot
It must be working any tank with a pulse gets invited lol
Guys asked to heal not to dps. Here we have it.
Dude. Healers are a ROLE not a class... We have like 6 classes that can heal...
@@FannerofFlames haha I know, less of a ring to it though
Last season " I dont wanna have to dps, im a healer i sh8uld heal". This season, here have it heal the party. " im tired i have to heal as a healer." You ppl just like to complain.
I would like to see healers disapear in pvp they are so strong you cant kill a healer even if you are 4 dps focus on him
Delves just show how toxic the community is and how dreadful mythic plus is.
Blizzard needs to stop all the stupid aoe damage at once like how does it make sense for dam near every pull the group takes as much damage as the tanks lol of course healing is not fun if it's always aoe damage constantly kinda lazy if you ask me just my opinion
You heal a dk if pergetory proced, thats my stance on healing dks
Dunno, love healing on my holypal. Can’t wait for next nerf.
Hahahahhaha
Actisoft (because Blizzard dissapeared long ago) needs to take their loss and admit that they totally fucked up M+ and the community needs to look in the mirror and know they helped create this environment. I consider myself a very good healer but no way I set foot in a pug in m+. Those toxic nosebugs are not worth my time nor energy. I'm lucky with a nice group. We don't do the highest keys but that's fine. I did higher keys in pug in the past but I did not enjoy it one bit. It's beyond me how those people still consider themselves as if they are the worlds best players because they dabble into a 15+ while they make so much misstakes themselves. No thanks. I rather take along a bunch of people who still have to learn but are grateful and motivated then those toxic bunch of nitwits that have no respect for anything but themselves.
Actisoft actively fucked up the totality of m+ (and what not more) and need to take it out of the game if they'd ask me.
this is just stupidity, you should just play and have fun and get rewards. not fkn min max to the bones, make content look too easy because of you, the 1% players and than blizzard comes in, make every thing harder and fks the rest of 99% player base.
You do it then lol
Always been a healer, comd back to wow s2 of DF never touching m+ before and fell in love, kept me coming back, got ksm on multiple chars only pugging over the next few seasons, TWW has crushed me, I physically can not pug anything over a 5...
Is it that bad atm? :(
The role everyone hates is the tank.
depends what role you're playing, it's all about perspective.
When I heal I hate dps players that don't use a single defensive in the whole dungeon
As a tank I hate healers who keep their healing cd's for the next dungeon
As a dps I hate dps that don't do their kick and/or cc
Also I'm not REALLY hating on anyone, all i'm saying is if we have to blame anyone when playing as X role, I think it depends on the role you're playing
@ I tank as Protection Paladin since the beginning of the season and after the anniversary patch. Myself and the healer always have to interrupt in dungeons. I always save WOG Procs for my healer, myself or DPS under 30% health. It's always the DPS complaining about pulling slow or not big enough. You pull a bit more and then the DPS gets mopped because they think they know more than a tank and healer with higher IO than the DPS themselves across all their accounts. Majority of DPS join keys without knowing all the dungeon mechanics. If the DPS sucks ( meaning I'm either 1st or 2nd in DPS AS A TANK!!) or the DPS don't know mechanics or purposely ignore them putting more pressure on the healer.
😢
2:30 not only that but blizzard designed healers around doing damage even though thats not what the majority of players wanted and then back tracked it in the war within but now we have many DPS talents that we have to take that are border line useless for some healers now. Also I do not like the fact that many healer specs now are forced to play damage/healing builds in order in AOE heal properly. When i heal i like to heal. I do not want 2 jobs in m+. So now healers are in a spot where we have to heal through burst AOE damage, dodge shit on the ground, move with boss/tank dispel party members and in some weeks dispel affix ALL AT THE SAME TIME.
Please, sorry to say, the wow reddit OP is being dramatic. I main healer in TWW and I'm having fun, sure there are stressful moments but I believe this player just wanted to get into keys quickly. Abuse? I ran into one toxic player out 80+ mythic plus runs. * Edit, I pug all my keys.
You are not the norm.
You’re wrong. I’ve healed since 2005 and it’s the first time I’ve ever switched over to DPS. The stress of it is overwhelming. Sensory overload.
You are quite possibly the luckiest person I know. I’m a single rogue main with 2400 io and it takes me roughly 2-3 hours just to get into a group or fill my own key, and 90%+ of the time the key is bricked and people get attitude in nearly every key. None of my friends who are also 2.2k or higher io spend over 2-3 hours just to start a key, and only finish 10% of them due to leavers and extremely toxic behavior.
@@jamesdixon4232 100% disagree, i played M+ heavily in legion as a healer, doing stuff on the high end played first 2 seasons in BFA as well and it was incredibly hard and unsatisfying that me as a healer also had to focus A LOT on DPS-ing, people would complain if you wouldn't pull at least half the tank's DPS in every single run people would flame you, this was one of the reason i stopped playing the game back then because i love healing and it was just unfun. At the request of friends i restarted playing with TWW and I didnt even start as a healer, i started out as a paladin tank (oops my bad didn't know they were going to be shit in M+) switched to DPS and meanwhile i made an alt resto shaman just to test the waters. DPS-ing on the paladin just hurts my fingers and its incredibly hard to get into groups even with 2.6k R.IO. I've been playing the shaman more and more and got to 2.5k rating EASILY and i can say that most dungeons are super easy and fun, i put a dot up on bosses and mobs and sometimes i do lava burst, but it is sooooooooooo much better being allowed to focus on healing rather than dps-ing and off-healing that it's been extremely enjoyable. Yes you have to stun, yes you have to interrupt, yes you have to watch out on mechanics, but you had to do that before as well, that part hasn't changed, not having to DPS and people getting off on you for not dps-ing has genuinely been a breath of fresh air that i truly enjoy.
Lmao right. You must be suuuuch an amazing player. We should all give you a cookie.
There is that old beware what you wish for. Wrath, people asked for harder dungeons, they got cata, people failed. Healers asked to do more healing and less dps, they asked for tanks to be not so self sufficient, they got both and healers now complain and are stressed. Delves are a real issue. Not one pce of my gear was from delves, was all keys but you can tell the people who geared through delves and think they can jump into a +5 and get out dpsd by the healer. Im having so much fun healing pugs this season. Once you get past the +8 area you find the people that better know what they are doing. As to toxic... Ive healed since wrath on the same toon. I can count on 3 fingers the amount of time ive been hacked on for my healing, and each time i deserved it. (one was this week lol)
we didnt ask for dps to not know how to use their kits, or dps who don't know what to interrupt, dont understand things like idk, mechanics and aggro and personal defensives. Do you know how many times I had to yell at a hunter to FD and have them go, oh its not on my keys....or mages who have no idea what an iceblock is, and think its all just pull big aoe the end. I have played at high levels in raid then mplus for apparently two decades if this birthday thing isnt lying, (god I am old lolcry) and this season, the crap from dps used to being carried through mechanics for too many years, I dipped out and I am not doing any mythic anything, delves are keeping me happy, I have the elevens if I want something to wear my brain out and push myself, and 616 ilevel just doing delves.
The problem with how stressfull healing is now, is the spiky damage in contrast to hp. Healing tanks is also fun, but not yoyo hp healing. Its a difference between nerfing self sustain and nerfing defensives. They did both. Nerfing self sustain alone would be perfect. That way tanks feel powerfull but needs some assistance when pushing challenging content
@@LizzieLeish Ice block is a biggie. Mages dying left and right and I’m like Ice block man
Delves are not a real issue. If you're inviting people into your keys with around a 610 ilvl with 0 mythic plus keys completed then that's your fault. The game gives you all the information you could ever ask for when deciding your group.
@@daketh4572 Yep and do people understand they can use hard stuns for fast interrupts to buy the second needed for mine to come off CD to kick the cast all together????
I've just let my sub expire until next season. I have around 22 alts at 600 ilvl just from doing four delves a week on them, I'm bored sick of delves.
Mythic+ is pain more than pleasure, I got my dungeon portals with my bear and I don't care to push further.
I killed the big spider in the raid the first week raid was available, I'm not in a guild and I don't care to pug heroic.
I don't pvp.
I don't care about money, imaginary money doubly-so.
wtf do I do in the game now?
tell me any games when u did most of the easy content that gives youa nything more to do bro this is not your life this a game so if u dont like raid ,dungeons,pvp and solo player content what can any game do for you ?
just play something else like idk im pretty sure you dont have 8/8 MM or 2800+ RIO OR 2400 CR pvp so you dont push the game to where it can go just wait other patch or xpac so you can do the campaign quest with 22 chars
Switch games. Too much WoW is going to get you bored of playing it really fast especially if you run out of things to upgrade. Take it from me, I started my character 20 years ago, been on and off of WoW and missed numerous expansions, but I still come back to it every now and then. You just gotta refresh your brain, sometimes taking a really long break will make the game brand new to you. Like when I came back at the end of Dragonflight, I couldn't recognize the game anymore and I had to re-learn everything like a total noob. This alone made the game very interesting to me because there were a whole bunch of mechanics that were added during my time out.
I can see very clearly that you need a long break... maybe even more than a year.
Are you sure this is the game you want to play?? 😂
So you don't raid but consider yourself good enough as you killed a spider? M+ is a pain, Delves bore you and you don't or won't PvP because people like me will crush you underfoot and make you realise your place, at the bottom unless you decide to change your attitude to difficulty. Are you a good raider? No. PvP, no. Perhaps find a guild that has people in on your wavelength How about looking in your achievements and accomplishing something.
You set no goals or bars or challenges then say - I'm bored what do I do now? 22 alts at 600 Ilvl? Anyone can do that dude, sounds like you played the game while asleep and then burned yourself out repeating the same thing again and again. In my journey of no expectation of where I'd end up I started with other activity like this. By expansions end I'd got Mythic Garrosh killed, gold In the Pandaria dungeon challenge and now I don't do any of that as I love PvP...for fun.