"I heard a cry." "That was me." "I heard a cry" "THAT WAS ME!" Thanks so much for watching this video, folks! Please hit the "like" button and leave any comment below to help appease the UA-cam Algorithm!
Did you notice that Chang only speaks in broken English when he's on stage? It's like he recognises the preconception of the Londoners he's performing for.
Chang was modeled on an actual Victorian performer named Chung Ling Soo (née William Ellsworth Robinson), an American magician who performed in yellow face to make his show more exotic and thus a bigger draw. It makes sense that Chang would play up the “insclutable Chinee” shtick on stage.
Spoiler: I didn't know how much I needed to hear Ringo Starr narrating the cliffhanger to Part Two of The Deadly Assassin. I have now seen the error of my ways.
Love The Deadly Assassin, however, AceCreeper has brought up an interesting point about Pratt's Master. Given that Delgado was taken from us in a car accident, bringing his character back clinging to life and looking, like that. It's a bit insensitive.
That's a fair point but The Master was only really made like that because Hinchcliffe and Holmes wanted to use The Master but didn't want to introduce a new actor in case any future producers would want to use their own.
16:48 Just a minor correction, but the Doctors comment of "they're what's known as a very dangerous bunch" is in reference to the Tong of the Black Scorpion, the cult that worship Weng Chiang. Of course this cult is the only depiction of Chinese in the episode, so it's definitely not a positive representation. However I don't the Doctor is actually engaging in the bigotry in this scene. His comment of "little men" is much more questionable, but I enjoy the idea that The Doctor doesn't immediately recognize their race, as shown when he first speaks to Li H'sen Chang.
It's not a minor correction, and you were right to point it out, as I did a couple of months back (see below). The caption in the video incorrectly states that the Doctor's remark is "Referring to Chinese people", when the full context makes it clear that he's referring specifically to the Black Scorpion gang.
Fun fact, I remember asking Tom Baker in a convention what his favourite story from his era as the Doctor was, and he replied 'The Talons of Weng-Chiang' due to the Sherlock Holmes elements of the story. On a side note, I'm still perplexed as to why they casted John Bennett as a Chinese character in that story. I know it was the 70's and times were different back then, but it's not like they couldn't have gotten an actor of Chinese/East-Asian descent to play him (considering Chang's subordinates are all played by actors of Chinese/East-Asian descent).
Only a few years previously, they'd tried and failed to find a half-decent Chinese actor to play the fairly straightforward part of a Chinese diplomat in "The Mind of Evil". The much more demanding role of Li-Hsen Chang was Hamlet in comparison, and they needed an experienced actor to play it, hence the casting of the excellent John Bennett. About the only accomplished UK-based Chinese actor of the time was Bert Kwouk, and he was too famous and busy playing Cato in the Pink Panther franchise; indeed, "The Pink Panther Strikes Again" and "Talons" would have been in production around the same time. Even then, Kwouk wasn't what I'd call a serious actor, and I can't imagine him being able to play Li-Hsen Chang. Apart from Kwouk, there weren't too many alternatives around at the time, and we had to wait until the young David Yip came along in "The Chinese Detective" (1981) before we saw a Chinese character actor capable of taking on a major role on British television.
yes but the other characters were only bit characters, finding an actor to play the main villian there were only a few, and they had other roles. It was the same in the 60's with toymaker
They couldn't. There was simply no Asian actor back in that time who could play a charismatic main role. All the henchmen were played by Asian characters, but a main role requires more qualification. Today it wouldn't be a problem, but in the 70s, it was. About the negative depiction of the Chinese people: well, they were all triad members and therefore bad guys. And the story is not only set in the Victorian Age, it is also written in the style of a Sherlock Holmes story and therefore uses stereotypes that existed back then. The serial is looking like Fu Manchu, because it was meant to be a homage to British Age crime fiction, including Fu Manchu.
@@Nikioko no we were talking about Asian actors at the time. Modern day snowflakes are offended about a white guy playing an Asian. And the Toymaker was a Guardian, like the black and white ones so he could take any form he chose!
@@ireallydidntwanttomakeanac575 Say what he says in the style of Mary Whitehouse: "One particular programme, I can see it in my minds eye, where Doctor Who visited India and saw Muslims. These sort of images are enforcing this religion onto the minds of the viewer! It seems as the ones making Doctor Who were a bit dumb!"
@@bigboymedia453 He's a UA-camr that basically exists to rant about how Doctor Who should be cancelled and that it's being torn apart and ruined by everything and anything that happens to it. He's also done some incredibly entertaining videos on Batwoman, on basically the same subject.
What a brilliant series. I was 8 when this was first shown and totally captivated by it. I rewatched it all with my own son and was amazed how well it stood up - and how much I remembered as it went along.
Well, Talons is in this season, better get the popcorn! Honestly, this isn't my favourite season of Baker's run (I personally prefer Seasons 13, 15, 16 and 18 as there are more stories in those seasons I rank amongst my favourites) but it's still decent My list would be- 1. Deadly Assassin- Simply one of the darkest and unique stories in the show's history 2. Robots of Death- Brilliant pacing and plot, blending lots of different literary sources for a great story 3. Face of Evil- Hideously underrated and thematically rich 4. Masque of Mandragora- I love the themes and the ideas of tradition vs advancement 5. Talons of Weng Chiang- It's perfectly fun and entertaining (and racist, but I choose to take it as a product of its time) but it's not my absolute favourite. I think the genre pastiches have been done better elsewhere and Holmes has done far better work. Still OK 6. Hand of Fear- Great first two episodes, great final scene, flops in the middle and end but it's still decent. And lays the groundwork for School Reunion, albeit unintentionally)
I think it was Nev Fountain who said in a mini documentary on Doctor a Who cliffhangers that the only thing missing from the Deadly Assassin’s train cliffhanger was a Ringo Starr narration. That always gets me.
Your comparisons of the controversial reactions to The Deadly Assassin and The Timeless Children are ON POINT, MY MAN! Something seriously needs to send Bowelstrek the part where you compare Mary Whitehouse to him! Also, that Thomas The Tank Engine reference was genius.
Except that The Deadly Assassin had an inventive structure and a strong narrative flow, compared with a protracted explanatory scene that relied on visual flashbacks to support it; coming at the tail end of a cyberman story that had nothing to do with Gallifrey! The voice over at the start of The Deadly Assassin reminded us of the power and majesty of the Time Lords. It was always going to be a challenge dramatising this, but Holmes seemed to at least have some respect for established continuity.
Great video as always! Side note/fun fact: the "I'll kill him with this deadly jelly baby" line in 'The Face of Evil' was actually improv. Tom Baker was originally meant to use a dagger in that seen but refused to and the line was born.
Very nice ranking from best to worst I'd go: The Talons of Weng Chiang The Deadly Assassin The Robots of Death The Hand of Fear The Masque of Mandragora The Face of Evil I really enjoy The Masque of Mandragora and think it's such an overlooked gem, I'm a sucker for history so this is right up my street, it's Doctor Who doing Hamlet with themes about faith and religion and it's a great watch. Season 14 is such a strong season, I'm always torn between S13 and 14 as to my favourite season from Tom's era!
Great Video And my list is the almost Same as yours but a bit different 1.The Deadly Assassin 2.The Hand of Fear 3.Face if Evil 4.Talons of Weng Chiang 5.Robots of Death 6.The Masquerade of Mandragra
Surprised to hear Mr Tardis reporting that he was watching some of these stories for the first time. His videos are so authoritative I thought he would have absorbed and reflected on these stories a long time ago.
I mean, if you can find prior examples where I talk about 'The Masque of Mandragora' and 'The Talons of Weng Chiang' prior to to last week with authority then by all means.
6. The Hand of Fear - 79.50 5. The Masque of Mandragora - 85.25 4. The Face of Evil - 85.75 3. The Robots of Death - 87.25 2. The Deadly Assassin - 87.75 1. The Talons of Weng-Chiang - 89.83
fantastic video and great ranking! i would love to see you do one of these for season 15. i know it hasn't got a blu-ray release as of yet but it is a very love it or hate it season that i would be interested to hear your opinions on.
Fantastic video! Would you consider doing a similar ranking for the other collection boxsets so far? Your videos are such a bright spot in the Dr Who world!
Great video 6. The face of evil 5. The masque of Mandragora 4. The Robots of death 3. The deadly Assasin 2. The hand of fear 1. The talons of weng Chiang
My ranking 1: The Robots of Death 2: The Deadly Assassin 3: The Talons of Weng-Chiang (I know it's racist as hell but it's also got Jago and Litefoot so...) 4: The Hand of Fear 5: The Masque of Mandragora 6: The Face of Evil
This is a really thoughtful consideration of a season I've loved, warts and all, for nearly thirty years (first watched it on PBS in the United States). One thing I would add to any consideration of THE ROBOTS OF DEATH is my opinion that D84 is one of the most strangely endearing supporting characters the series has ever featured- a clever, funny, loyal robot cop with a charming vocal performance. Still genuinely saddened by his self-sacrifice after all these years.
I basically agree with you about the portrayal of Chinese people in Talons (as you suggest it badly needed another Chinese character on the Doctor's side to balance things out ) , but I don't think the Doctor joins in, in fact he has some ironic digs at other charcters' racism, although perhaps they are a bit too subtle to dimprove things. Also in the clip you show where the Doctor refers to a "very dangerous bunch" he's talking specifically about the Tong Of The Black Scorpion. As to the clip that you showed where you say Leela gets kidnapped a lot, this is a scene where she has infiltrated Greel's base and swapped places with his victim - hardly the standard damsel in distress. She only gets kidnapped once in the story. I suspect the reason Greel is specifically kidnapping women is to draw a Jack The Ripper analogy , maybe even to hint that he is the Ripper - in poor tatse perhaps, but that's Robert Holmes. Oh yes , and it definitely should be 6 parts, I've never got bored watching Talons.
Where do I have to sign to get Ringo Starr to narrate the whole of Deadly Assassin? Also, Happy Birthday! Thank you for being such a great person to go to when it comes to Doctor Who and otherwise! Hope that all is well and that you have a great day!
I'm not kidding, in one of the doctor who behind the scenes docos that covers the cliffhangers of doctor who. They did the same comparison with the deadly assassin train cliffhanger to Ringo Starr narrating Thomas the tank engine. 😃😄😆 I don't know if you've seen it but it's uncanny that you came to the same comparison.
Just wanna say. I’m loving your Twitter feed. Well it’s informative anyway, but depressing but that’s not your fault. Im finding it really helpful so keep up that re tweeting!
Good video as always, but here's my obligatory ranking 1) The Hand of Fear 2) Talons of Weng-Chiang 3) The Deadly Assassin 4) The Face of Evil 5) The Robots of Death 6) The Masque of Mandragora
Happy birthday for tomorrow Mr T my ranking would be: 6. The masque of Mandragora - a fun four part story and a decent way to spend an afternoon but a bit too many generic characters and forgettable story beats 5. The deadly assassin - some dark and brilliantly trippy imagery with a distasteful Master costume that makes the time lords a bit too dull in my opinion 4. The robots of death - sparkling dialogue and great pacing make this a must watch 3. The face of evil - iconic in every detail bar the fetishtic possession sub plot and hollow third part 2. The talons of weng Chiang - in other circumstances would be my perfect doctor who story and almost is apart from some very unfortunate and offensive production work even though the writing, visual direction, performances, pacing, characters, ideas and mythology are all phenomenal 1. The hand of fear - the perfect hyyyybrid (Clarhhra) of a fun and iconic doctor who story with an emotionally satisfying character piece that has some brilliant ideas and a stellar exploration of the fourth doctor as he is forced to say goodbye to the one person he loves more than anything because he knows he can't risk losing her like he lost so many others that were important to him. Iconic and stellar story with fantastic performances and unforgettable characters.
This honestly is the best season in dr sho. My order goes; Talons of Weng Chiang Robots of Death (my top 2 Tom Baker stories) The Face of Evil The Deadly Assassin The Hand of Fear The Masque of Mandragora. Given youve been a massive whovian for years I'm surprised theres classic whos you haven't watched atleast once before.
my rankings are really different to yours. But I respect your opinion. Anyway here's my rankings: 1.The robots of death 2. The masque of Mandragora 3. The Deadly Assassin 4. The Talons of Weng-Chiang 5. The Hand of Fear 6. The Face of Evil.
I personally found Chang a sympathetic character. Also, something I noticed on my first viewing is that he only speaks broken English when on stage, like he's putting on a character for the racist Londoners.
Great season. Personally I was a little disappointed by deadly assassin. Never enjoy galafrey stories much anyway. I was pleasantly surprised by the face of evil.
I love the Masque of Mandragora. For me the worst is Hand of Fear and I don’t think The Deadly Assassin is much better. I’ve never liked Gallifrey stories. Talons and Robots are both five star classics.
hmmm, well for me it would be 6, Masque of Mandragora, 5 Talons of Weng Chiang{rats let it down}, 4 Robots of Death, 3 Deadly Assassin, 2 Hand of Fear, 1 Face of Evil. After the brilliant portrayal of Liz Sladen, the new companion had to be completely different and Louise certainly was but it would not have mattered what she wore, for me she was brilliantly cast. There is something incredible in the Face of Evil, the darkness, mysticism and a little humour, genius. Although for me, this was clearly the best season of Tom Baker. Even the Masque had a lot of good material in it. My opinon anyway, for what its worth...
RE: Talons of Weng-Chiang I feel Robert Holmes was evoking the Fu Manchu stories (which certainly are problematic but none the less were made into films and inspired Marvel's Shang-Chi Master of Kung Fu comic). I don't think anyone took the pantomime charactures in Talons of Weng-Chiang seriously. Holmes was revelling in the recreation of Penny Dreadfuls.Actually, casting a Chinese actor in the lead might have been even worse as it would make the story more naturalistic andit might become an actual attempt to represent real Chinese people. in contrast, the BBC did have David Yip in The Chinese Detective. But then I'm White and Welsh and was totally pissed off with the stereotypical soldier in Web of Fear - even at the age of Eight!
Well said. I'd only add that the BBC wouldn't have David Yip/The Chinese Detective until 4 years after Weng-Chiang was made. There really weren't that many good Chinese actors active in British TV at the time; in fact, I can't think of any who would have been capable of playing Li Hsen Chang with the subtle dignity that John Bennett brought to the role.
Robots of Death simply doesn't work as an Agatha Christie style whodunnit, since the answer to this question is revealed halfway through episode 2 of 4. So there isn't much tension left after that. 7:28: No, it is the person wearing black and white striped trousers when he orders killing Zilda. And since this only applies to one person, you don't have much to solve.
Robots of Death has my favorite Tom insult.”You are the perfect example of the inverse proportion between the size of the mouth and the size of the brain.”
1. Talons Of Weng Chiang (while cringing at the obvious issue) 2. Robots Of Death 3. The Deadly Assassin 4. Face Of Evil 5. Masque Of Mandragora 6. Hand Of Fear But overall the strongest season of Dr Who. I don't actually think any of them are bad and my top 3 would also be in my top 5 Dr Who stories.
1) the Face of Evil (iiiiii love this mf story) 2) The Deadly Assassin 3) Talons 4) Robots of death 5) Masque 6) Hand of Fear (not really super in love this with one) I owned all these before the big collection came out and they are easily, along with season 13, the stories I watch the most frequently. So much great old school who.
I just watched Series 14 and, despite usually having similar opinions to you about the show, I had a very different ranking. From best to worst: 1. The Masque of Mandragora 2. The Robots of Death 3. The Talons of Weng Chiang 4. The Deadly Assassin 5. The Face of Evil 6. The Hand of Fear
I think my Rating would be. 1.Robots of death 2.The talons of Weng-Chiang 3.The deadly Assassin 4 . The Hand of Fear 5. The Face of evil 6. The masque of Mandragera
Nice list. Kind of have to disagree with the Robots of Death placement, BUT I have to agree that Face of Evil does have the acting and imagery over it, the latter is really underrated but the ending just...eh. As for ‘comically small trains’, not to be a “that guy” but I’m just saying that even the smallest of 2 ft still weighs 6 tons; David Maloney could’ve bargained for something bigger though, but I guess you have to make do with what you could in the 70s.
Nice video. I do question your assessment of Talons though. Yes, the practice of yellow face was wrong (widespread though it was, going right back to early Hollywood). However, I feel you do the late Robert Holmes a grave injustice. I always see the story as calling out the racism rampant in that era, so to me is utterly authentic. For example, here is an extract from an Oxford history book on China and Britain by J. Osterhammel: "China excited the British imagination. All sorts of orientalist clichés and racial stereotypes were projected upon China and the Chinese. From the mid-nineteenth century, China formed an integral part of the military, economic, and mental history of European and, in particular, of British imperialism." Remember, this was after the Opium Wars and there was a lot of xenophobia. Perhaps you could argue that Holmes exploited this theme, but I think the way you present it is far too simplistic and suggests Holmes did not intend to call out racism for what it was. I disagree. Also, the fact the Doctor speaks fluent Mandarin and understands he is up against a criminal gang provides a different context to the way you present it in your video. I think it's problematic to buy into the idea that Holmes was racist not understanding his intent. Messaging was usually more subtle in the series back then compared with today (aside perhaps from The Sunmakers!). Remember also, the opium den theme was popular with a number of English writers such as Dickens, Doyle and Wilde - all of which may have been a strong inspiration for the drug theme.
“A war criminal from the 51st century who is left deformed and disfigured from travelling in time using crude technology” Now that sounds really familiar. Maybe Captain Jack isn’t the face of boe after all 🤨
I don't fully agree, but I can understand the rankings. For me, "Robots of Death" features two of my favorite Leela scenes. First, where the Doctor tries to explain trans-dimensional mechanics to her, and she gives the perfect response: "That is silly." Later, there's the scene that shows just how different she is from any other Companion. When Uvanov slaps her, she kicks him in the stomach and roars, "Touch me again and I'll cripple you!" As for "Face of Evil", the pacing in the latter half might be off, but part three's scene of the Doctor confronting mad Xoanon is actually rather scary, especially the cliffhanger. And, for me, the departure of Sarah Jane in "Hand of Fear" is tied with Jo's departure in "The Green Death" as the best Companion farewells in the entire series history. Both are bittersweet, well-acted, emotional and, best of all, understated. Unlike, say, Rose's departure in "Doomsday", which goes over the top and drags on far too long, these two are simpler, and more effective. Good job on the video.
"I heard a cry."
"That was me."
"I heard a cry"
"THAT WAS ME!"
Thanks so much for watching this video, folks! Please hit the "like" button and leave any comment below to help appease the UA-cam Algorithm!
Are you still doing the Big Finish Book club or is it cancelled?
@@maldon3659 it's still happening, however UA-cam has done everything it can to bury the series so it needs re-structuring.
@@MrTARDIS ok
Happy birthday Trilbee! Have a goodun, and thank you for that Thomas the Tank Engine joke lol
wait did u say that 14 was the highest viewing figures of classic who, if u did just NO, its season 17
Did you notice that Chang only speaks in broken English when he's on stage? It's like he recognises the preconception of the Londoners he's performing for.
Chang was modeled on an actual Victorian performer named Chung Ling Soo (née William Ellsworth Robinson), an American magician who performed in yellow face to make his show more exotic and thus a bigger draw.
It makes sense that Chang would play up the “insclutable Chinee” shtick on stage.
With Face Of Evil the “Who am I” cliffhanger still raises the hairs on the back of my neck.
Spoiler:
I didn't know how much I needed to hear Ringo Starr narrating the cliffhanger to Part Two of The Deadly Assassin. I have now seen the error of my ways.
I wouldn't say no to a salami sandwich.
Just watched that clip and it was the best 5 seconds of an extremely boring serial.
Love The Deadly Assassin, however, AceCreeper has brought up an interesting point about Pratt's Master. Given that Delgado was taken from us in a car accident, bringing his character back clinging to life and looking, like that. It's a bit insensitive.
That's a fair point but The Master was only really made like that because Hinchcliffe and Holmes wanted to use The Master but didn't want to introduce a new actor in case any future producers would want to use their own.
16:48 Just a minor correction, but the Doctors comment of "they're what's known as a very dangerous bunch" is in reference to the Tong of the Black Scorpion, the cult that worship Weng Chiang. Of course this cult is the only depiction of Chinese in the episode, so it's definitely not a positive representation. However I don't the Doctor is actually engaging in the bigotry in this scene. His comment of "little men" is much more questionable, but I enjoy the idea that The Doctor doesn't immediately recognize their race, as shown when he first speaks to Li H'sen Chang.
It's not a minor correction, and you were right to point it out, as I did a couple of months back (see below). The caption in the video incorrectly states that the Doctor's remark is "Referring to Chinese people", when the full context makes it clear that he's referring specifically to the Black Scorpion gang.
Yeah, that was straight dishonesty tbh. He flat out doesn't mean all Chinese people.
@@pinealdreams1064 It saddens me to see race grifters bending over backwards to try to find things to get outraged about.
Fun fact, I remember asking Tom Baker in a convention what his favourite story from his era as the Doctor was, and he replied 'The Talons of Weng-Chiang' due to the Sherlock Holmes elements of the story.
On a side note, I'm still perplexed as to why they casted John Bennett as a Chinese character in that story. I know it was the 70's and times were different back then, but it's not like they couldn't have gotten an actor of Chinese/East-Asian descent to play him (considering Chang's subordinates are all played by actors of Chinese/East-Asian descent).
Only a few years previously, they'd tried and failed to find a half-decent Chinese actor to play the fairly straightforward part of a Chinese diplomat in "The Mind of Evil". The much more demanding role of Li-Hsen Chang was Hamlet in comparison, and they needed an experienced actor to play it, hence the casting of the excellent John Bennett.
About the only accomplished UK-based Chinese actor of the time was Bert Kwouk, and he was too famous and busy playing Cato in the Pink Panther franchise; indeed, "The Pink Panther Strikes Again" and "Talons" would have been in production around the same time. Even then, Kwouk wasn't what I'd call a serious actor, and I can't imagine him being able to play Li-Hsen Chang.
Apart from Kwouk, there weren't too many alternatives around at the time, and we had to wait until the young David Yip came along in "The Chinese Detective" (1981) before we saw a Chinese character actor capable of taking on a major role on British television.
yes but the other characters were only bit characters, finding an actor to play the main villian there were only a few, and they had other roles. It was the same in the 60's with toymaker
They couldn't. There was simply no Asian actor back in that time who could play a charismatic main role. All the henchmen were played by Asian characters, but a main role requires more qualification. Today it wouldn't be a problem, but in the 70s, it was. About the negative depiction of the Chinese people: well, they were all triad members and therefore bad guys. And the story is not only set in the Victorian Age, it is also written in the style of a Sherlock Holmes story and therefore uses stereotypes that existed back then. The serial is looking like Fu Manchu, because it was meant to be a homage to British Age crime fiction, including Fu Manchu.
@@julieeverett7442 What about the Toymaker? He wore Chinese-looking clothes, but he was an alien. Asian clothes can be worn by everyone.
@@Nikioko no we were talking about Asian actors at the time. Modern day snowflakes are offended about a white guy playing an Asian. And the Toymaker was a Guardian, like the black and white ones so he could take any form he chose!
Glad I could help out with the Deadly Assassin Thomas the Tank Engine joke! Hope you enjoy your birthday! 👍🏻
That was jokes hahahahq
Happy Birthday for tomorrow Will!
Love that Mr tardis is always willing to oppose bowlestrek and nerdrotic
If it weren't for this channel I would have been convinced by them
22:26-22:36 Yet another nice Bowlestrek jab.
That'll be stuck in his mind's eye for a bit.
@@ireallydidntwanttomakeanac575 oh, it's not the mind's eye I'm aiming for.
It's his comically thin skin.
@@ireallydidntwanttomakeanac575 Say what he says in the style of Mary Whitehouse: "One particular programme, I can see it in my minds eye, where Doctor Who visited India and saw Muslims. These sort of images are enforcing this religion onto the minds of the viewer! It seems as the ones making Doctor Who were a bit dumb!"
What is the hate for bowlestrek? Not that I don’t agree I just don’t know what it is.
@@bigboymedia453 He's a UA-camr that basically exists to rant about how Doctor Who should be cancelled and that it's being torn apart and ruined by everything and anything that happens to it. He's also done some incredibly entertaining videos on Batwoman, on basically the same subject.
I would love to see more of these Classic Who Season’s ranked, a brilliant idea I think you should revisit!
22:34 Ooh! Shots fired!
Happy birthday Will! Loved your list! (Though I have a few disagreements lol) Would love to see more season rankings if ya feel like doing anymore
Would really love to see more of these classic series rankings!
Have a great birthday will, great ranking. Your content has been good to watch during these times. So thanks. Hope you have good birthday.
What a brilliant series. I was 8 when this was first shown and totally captivated by it. I rewatched it all with my own son and was amazed how well it stood up - and how much I remembered as it went along.
24:07 Really, adding in Sir Ringo Starr?
Great video. Loved when you compared Mary Whitehouse to Bowlestrek. Hope you have a great birthday!
Well, Talons is in this season, better get the popcorn! Honestly, this isn't my favourite season of Baker's run (I personally prefer Seasons 13, 15, 16 and 18 as there are more stories in those seasons I rank amongst my favourites) but it's still decent
My list would be-
1. Deadly Assassin- Simply one of the darkest and unique stories in the show's history
2. Robots of Death- Brilliant pacing and plot, blending lots of different literary sources for a great story
3. Face of Evil- Hideously underrated and thematically rich
4. Masque of Mandragora- I love the themes and the ideas of tradition vs advancement
5. Talons of Weng Chiang- It's perfectly fun and entertaining (and racist, but I choose to take it as a product of its time) but it's not my absolute favourite. I think the genre pastiches have been done better elsewhere and Holmes has done far better work. Still OK
6. Hand of Fear- Great first two episodes, great final scene, flops in the middle and end but it's still decent. And lays the groundwork for School Reunion, albeit unintentionally)
I think it was Nev Fountain who said in a mini documentary on Doctor a Who cliffhangers that the only thing missing from the Deadly Assassin’s train cliffhanger was a Ringo Starr narration. That always gets me.
Your comparisons of the controversial reactions to The Deadly Assassin and The Timeless Children are ON POINT, MY MAN! Something seriously needs to send Bowelstrek the part where you compare Mary Whitehouse to him! Also, that Thomas The Tank Engine reference was genius.
Except that The Deadly Assassin had an inventive structure and a strong narrative flow, compared with a protracted explanatory scene that relied on visual flashbacks to support it; coming at the tail end of a cyberman story that had nothing to do with Gallifrey! The voice over at the start of The Deadly Assassin reminded us of the power and majesty of the Time Lords. It was always going to be a challenge dramatising this, but Holmes seemed to at least have some respect for established continuity.
Flux genuinely did a better job with The Timeless Child than the S12 finale. A shame Flux couldn't also do a decent job with its own plot
Fantastic analysis of the season 👏 👍. Looking forward to other videos.
Great video as always!
Side note/fun fact: the "I'll kill him with this deadly jelly baby" line in 'The Face of Evil' was actually improv. Tom Baker was originally meant to use a dagger in that seen but refused to and the line was born.
Very nice ranking from best to worst I'd go:
The Talons of Weng Chiang
The Deadly Assassin
The Robots of Death
The Hand of Fear
The Masque of Mandragora
The Face of Evil
I really enjoy The Masque of Mandragora and think it's such an overlooked gem, I'm a sucker for history so this is right up my street, it's Doctor Who doing Hamlet with themes about faith and religion and it's a great watch. Season 14 is such a strong season, I'm always torn between S13 and 14 as to my favourite season from Tom's era!
Happy early birthday, man! Great to see more of your content on my sub feed!
Mr TARDIS, I’ve visited the location for The Masque Of Mandragora. Lovely little village
Me too!
Great Video And my list is the almost Same as yours but a bit different
1.The Deadly Assassin
2.The Hand of Fear
3.Face if Evil
4.Talons of Weng Chiang
5.Robots of Death
6.The Masquerade of Mandragra
Surprised to hear Mr Tardis reporting that he was watching some of these stories for the first time. His videos are so authoritative I thought he would have absorbed and reflected on these stories a long time ago.
I mean, if you can find prior examples where I talk about 'The Masque of Mandragora' and 'The Talons of Weng Chiang' prior to to last week with authority then by all means.
The Face of Evil is one of my all time favourites from the classic series.
Great ranking! The Deadly Assassin is my second favourite 4th Doctor story so it's nice to see it at the top.
6. The Hand of Fear - 79.50
5. The Masque of Mandragora - 85.25
4. The Face of Evil - 85.75
3. The Robots of Death - 87.25
2. The Deadly Assassin - 87.75
1. The Talons of Weng-Chiang - 89.83
fantastic video and great ranking! i would love to see you do one of these for season 15. i know it hasn't got a blu-ray release as of yet but it is a very love it or hate it season that i would be interested to hear your opinions on.
Fantastic video! Would you consider doing a similar ranking for the other collection boxsets so far?
Your videos are such a bright spot in the Dr Who world!
Blows my mind @MrTardis hasn't done more of these for classic Doctor Who 😮😮
Great video
6. The face of evil
5. The masque of Mandragora
4. The Robots of death
3. The deadly Assasin
2. The hand of fear
1. The talons of weng Chiang
My ranking
1: The Robots of Death
2: The Deadly Assassin
3: The Talons of Weng-Chiang (I know it's racist as hell but it's also got Jago and Litefoot so...)
4: The Hand of Fear
5: The Masque of Mandragora
6: The Face of Evil
Thank you for the review.
10:32 Well don’t forget his opening fourth wall break
I've never seen any of Classic Who but I'm going to watch, like and comment anyway! And happy birthday 🎈
This is a really thoughtful consideration of a season I've loved, warts and all, for nearly thirty years (first watched it on PBS in the United States). One thing I would add to any consideration of THE ROBOTS OF DEATH is my opinion that D84 is one of the most strangely endearing supporting characters the series has ever featured- a clever, funny, loyal robot cop with a charming vocal performance. Still genuinely saddened by his self-sacrifice after all these years.
Im glad you acknowledged the racism in Talons of Went Chiang, it's always made me feel conflicted about that story.
happy birthday. may the trillby be with you.
I basically agree with you about the portrayal of Chinese people in Talons (as you suggest it badly needed another Chinese character on the Doctor's side to balance things out ) , but I don't think the Doctor joins in, in fact he has some ironic digs at other charcters' racism, although perhaps they are a bit too subtle to dimprove things. Also in the clip you show where the Doctor refers to a "very dangerous bunch" he's talking specifically about the Tong Of The Black Scorpion.
As to the clip that you showed where you say Leela gets kidnapped a lot, this is a scene where she has infiltrated Greel's base and swapped places with his victim - hardly the standard damsel in distress. She only gets kidnapped once in the story.
I suspect the reason Greel is specifically kidnapping women is to draw a Jack The Ripper analogy , maybe even to hint that he is the Ripper - in poor tatse perhaps, but that's Robert Holmes.
Oh yes , and it definitely should be 6 parts, I've never got bored watching Talons.
Talons could’ve been a 10 parter like the War Games and I still probably wouldn’t get bored of it.
I thought the Master been mutialted made him look revolting
Where do I have to sign to get Ringo Starr to narrate the whole of Deadly Assassin?
Also, Happy Birthday! Thank you for being such a great person to go to when it comes to Doctor Who and otherwise! Hope that all is well and that you have a great day!
"The Doctors grenade blew up in the huntsmans face! Thankfully, no one was hurt"
I'm not kidding, in one of the doctor who behind the scenes docos that covers the cliffhangers of doctor who. They did the same comparison with the deadly assassin train cliffhanger to Ringo Starr narrating Thomas the tank engine. 😃😄😆 I don't know if you've seen it but it's uncanny that you came to the same comparison.
For me it would go
6) Deadly assassin
5) Masque of Mandragora
4) face of evil
3) hand of fear
2) robots of death
1) talons of Weng-chiang
Just wanna say. I’m loving your Twitter feed. Well it’s informative anyway, but depressing but that’s not your fault. Im finding it really helpful so keep up that re tweeting!
The train bit made me laugh.
74 to 79 brought us the finest Who stories
Good video as always, but here's my obligatory ranking
1) The Hand of Fear
2) Talons of Weng-Chiang
3) The Deadly Assassin
4) The Face of Evil
5) The Robots of Death
6) The Masque of Mandragora
Boo to you! Robots of Death is awesome. When I watched this as a kid it rocked. Bloody kids these days 😂
No, it isn't. For the exact reason he mentioned: the bad guy is revealed halfway through episode 2 which is very killing for a whodunnit.
Happy birthday for tomorrow Mr T my ranking would be:
6. The masque of Mandragora - a fun four part story and a decent way to spend an afternoon but a bit too many generic characters and forgettable story beats
5. The deadly assassin - some dark and brilliantly trippy imagery with a distasteful Master costume that makes the time lords a bit too dull in my opinion
4. The robots of death - sparkling dialogue and great pacing make this a must watch
3. The face of evil - iconic in every detail bar the fetishtic possession sub plot and hollow third part
2. The talons of weng Chiang - in other circumstances would be my perfect doctor who story and almost is apart from some very unfortunate and offensive production work even though the writing, visual direction, performances, pacing, characters, ideas and mythology are all phenomenal
1. The hand of fear - the perfect hyyyybrid (Clarhhra) of a fun and iconic doctor who story with an emotionally satisfying character piece that has some brilliant ideas and a stellar exploration of the fourth doctor as he is forced to say goodbye to the one person he loves more than anything because he knows he can't risk losing her like he lost so many others that were important to him. Iconic and stellar story with fantastic performances and unforgettable characters.
24:10 Ringo is that you? XD
Well done MrTardis, you have successfully ruined Thomas the Tank engine AND Deadly assassin. My childhood has ended...
GREAT VIDEO!!
Hope you have a great birthday Will!
This honestly is the best season in dr sho.
My order goes;
Talons of Weng Chiang
Robots of Death (my top 2 Tom Baker stories)
The Face of Evil
The Deadly Assassin
The Hand of Fear
The Masque of Mandragora.
Given youve been a massive whovian for years I'm surprised theres classic whos you haven't watched atleast once before.
For me it's
Masque of Mandragora
The Face of Evil
The Hand of Fear
The Talons of Weng-Chiang
The Deadly Assassin
The Robots of Death
my rankings are really different to yours. But I respect your opinion. Anyway here's my rankings:
1.The robots of death
2. The masque of Mandragora
3. The Deadly Assassin
4. The Talons of Weng-Chiang
5. The Hand of Fear
6. The Face of Evil.
👍👍 And Happy Birthday! 🎂
I personally found Chang a sympathetic character. Also, something I noticed on my first viewing is that he only speaks broken English when on stage, like he's putting on a character for the racist Londoners.
Great season. Personally I was a little disappointed by deadly assassin. Never enjoy galafrey stories much anyway. I was pleasantly surprised by the face of evil.
24:07 A brilliant gag.
I love the Masque of Mandragora. For me the worst is Hand of Fear and I don’t think The Deadly Assassin is much better. I’ve never liked Gallifrey stories. Talons and Robots are both five star classics.
The Robots Of Death would make a good Doctor Who theatre play
hmmm, well for me it would be 6, Masque of Mandragora, 5 Talons of Weng Chiang{rats let it down}, 4 Robots of Death, 3 Deadly Assassin, 2 Hand of Fear, 1 Face of Evil.
After the brilliant portrayal of Liz Sladen, the new companion had to be completely different and Louise certainly was but it would not have mattered what she wore, for me she was brilliantly cast. There is something incredible in the Face of Evil, the darkness, mysticism and a little humour, genius. Although for me, this was clearly the best season of Tom Baker. Even the Masque had a lot of good material in it. My opinon anyway, for what its worth...
Great video. How about doing season 13. I’d love unto hear your thoughts on the Krynoids!
RE: Talons of Weng-Chiang I feel Robert Holmes was evoking the Fu Manchu stories (which certainly are problematic but none the less were made into films and inspired Marvel's Shang-Chi Master of Kung Fu comic). I don't think anyone took the pantomime charactures in Talons of Weng-Chiang seriously. Holmes was revelling in the recreation of Penny Dreadfuls.Actually, casting a Chinese actor in the lead might have been even worse as it would make the story more naturalistic andit might become an actual attempt to represent real Chinese people. in contrast, the BBC did have David Yip in The Chinese Detective. But then I'm White and Welsh and was totally pissed off with the stereotypical soldier in Web of Fear - even at the age of Eight!
Well said. I'd only add that the BBC wouldn't have David Yip/The Chinese Detective until 4 years after Weng-Chiang was made. There really weren't that many good Chinese actors active in British TV at the time; in fact, I can't think of any who would have been capable of playing Li Hsen Chang with the subtle dignity that John Bennett brought to the role.
6. The Deadly Assassin
5. The Face of Evil
4. The Masque of Mandragora
3. The Talons of Weng-Chiang
2. The Hand of Fear
1. The Robots of Death
The Robots of Death is the first classic who story I ever saw and I didn't even notice the true villain until I rewatcjed it.
Happy Birthday!
1.The Robots of Death
2.The Deadly Assassin
3.The Face of Evil
4.The Hand of Fear
5.The Masque of Mandragora
6.The Talons of Weing-Cheing
Happy Birthday!!!
1. The Talons of Weng-Chiang
2. The Face of Evil
3. The Masque of Mandragora
4. The Robots of Death
5. The Hand of Fear
6. The Deadly Assassin
Robots of Death simply doesn't work as an Agatha Christie style whodunnit, since the answer to this question is revealed halfway through episode 2 of 4. So there isn't much tension left after that.
7:28: No, it is the person wearing black and white striped trousers when he orders killing Zilda. And since this only applies to one person, you don't have much to solve.
Robots of Death has my favorite Tom insult.”You are the perfect example of the inverse proportion between the size of the mouth and the size of the brain.”
I honestly love ALL of that Season except for "Masque", which is merely likeable.
1. Talons Of Weng Chiang (while cringing at the obvious issue)
2. Robots Of Death
3. The Deadly Assassin
4. Face Of Evil
5. Masque Of Mandragora
6. Hand Of Fear
But overall the strongest season of Dr Who. I don't actually think any of them are bad and my top 3 would also be in my top 5 Dr Who stories.
The mystery of the first half of the Face of Evil is great because you really don't know what's going on.
Doctor "would you like a jellybaby"
Lila "It's true the evil one eats babies"
Me/fat bastard "I ate a baby!"
6.masque of mandragora
5.robots of death
4.talons of weng chiang
3.hand of fear
2.face of evil
1.deadly assasin
1) the Face of Evil (iiiiii love this mf story)
2) The Deadly Assassin
3) Talons
4) Robots of death
5) Masque
6) Hand of Fear (not really super in love this with one)
I owned all these before the big collection came out and they are easily, along with season 13, the stories I watch the most frequently. So much great old school who.
Interesting fact: The Deadly Assassin is the only classic Doctor who story with no human characters and no female characters.
I should probably show some Talons clips to all my Chinese friends to see how they feel
I just watched Series 14 and, despite usually having similar opinions to you about the show, I had a very different ranking. From best to worst:
1. The Masque of Mandragora
2. The Robots of Death
3. The Talons of Weng Chiang
4. The Deadly Assassin
5. The Face of Evil
6. The Hand of Fear
Nice ranking. I actually think this is the one season where each story is better than the previous one.
I think my Rating would be.
1.Robots of death
2.The talons of Weng-Chiang
3.The deadly Assassin
4 . The Hand of Fear
5. The Face of evil
6. The masque of Mandragera
Nice list. Kind of have to disagree with the Robots of Death placement, BUT I have to agree that Face of Evil does have the acting and imagery over it, the latter is really underrated but the ending just...eh. As for ‘comically small trains’, not to be a “that guy” but I’m just saying that even the smallest of 2 ft still weighs 6 tons; David Maloney could’ve bargained for something bigger though, but I guess you have to make do with what you could in the 70s.
The winner of the most redundant title award goes to...
The Deadly Assassin
1.The Deadly Assassin
2. Talons
3. The hand of fear
4. The robots of death
5. The face of evil
6. TMOM
Happy birthday for tommorow
Nice video. I do question your assessment of Talons though. Yes, the practice of yellow face was wrong (widespread though it was, going right back to early Hollywood). However, I feel you do the late Robert Holmes a grave injustice. I always see the story as calling out the racism rampant in that era, so to me is utterly authentic. For example, here is an extract from an Oxford history book on China and Britain by J. Osterhammel: "China excited the British imagination. All sorts of orientalist clichés and racial stereotypes were projected upon China and the Chinese. From the mid-nineteenth century, China formed an integral part of the military, economic, and mental history of European and, in particular, of British imperialism." Remember, this was after the Opium Wars and there was a lot of xenophobia. Perhaps you could argue that Holmes exploited this theme, but I think the way you present it is far too simplistic and suggests Holmes did not intend to call out racism for what it was. I disagree. Also, the fact the Doctor speaks fluent Mandarin and understands he is up against a criminal gang provides a different context to the way you present it in your video. I think it's problematic to buy into the idea that Holmes was racist not understanding his intent. Messaging was usually more subtle in the series back then compared with today (aside perhaps from The Sunmakers!). Remember also, the opium den theme was popular with a number of English writers such as Dickens, Doyle and Wilde - all of which may have been a strong inspiration for the drug theme.
“A war criminal from the 51st century who is left deformed and disfigured from travelling in time using crude technology”
Now that sounds really familiar. Maybe Captain Jack isn’t the face of boe after all 🤨
For me
1 talons of weng chiang
2. Robots of death
3. Face of evil
4. Hand of fear
5. Deadly assassin
6. Macacue if Mandragora
I'm with you on your top two.
@@hopebgood love them
I don't fully agree, but I can understand the rankings. For me, "Robots of Death" features two of my favorite Leela scenes. First, where the Doctor tries to explain trans-dimensional mechanics to her, and she gives the perfect response: "That is silly." Later, there's the scene that shows just how different she is from any other Companion. When Uvanov slaps her, she kicks him in the stomach and roars, "Touch me again and I'll cripple you!" As for "Face of Evil", the pacing in the latter half might be off, but part three's scene of the Doctor confronting mad Xoanon is actually rather scary, especially the cliffhanger. And, for me, the departure of Sarah Jane in "Hand of Fear" is tied with Jo's departure in "The Green Death" as the best Companion farewells in the entire series history. Both are bittersweet, well-acted, emotional and, best of all, understated. Unlike, say, Rose's departure in "Doomsday", which goes over the top and drags on far too long, these two are simpler, and more effective. Good job on the video.
Season 14 has many good/memorable episodes!
Please Do Not Throw Hands At Me
Talons is the greatest episode of Classic Who