Do Trans People NEED To Arm Themselves? | Trans Issues Debate w/ Viewer
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- Опубліковано 13 вер 2024
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To believe that trans people are unfit to have access to firearms is a pretty extreme prejudice. That’s the kind of attitude that prevented us from serving.
It's literally the lib version of 41 percent
That is the most fucking ignorant thing Ive heard this week.
It was my first and foremost thought throughout the convo
So you are against mental health checks in order to own a firearm?
@@camerongalles8617 That's a complete non-sequiter lmao
“Man it's weird to suggest X group would immediately roblox themselves if they had a gun, pretty skewed perspective”
“So you want CRAZY people to have guns?? You want guns in the hands of INSANE LUNATICS?!”
Come on, are you seriously just buying into the prejudice OP pointed out? It's not mutually exclusive to want mental health checks AND want leftists and minority groups to have the opportunity for self-defense.
“I don’t think we should defend ourselves against a genocide”, the convo.
it's not a genocide...they aren't a seperate race. Nor, for that matter, are any conservatives pushing for complete elimination...the main objection is pushing it on kids through agressive media tactics vs individual adults making the choice after years of therapy. not LIKING or agreeing with a thing is not the same as mandating complete elimination of that thing. the concept of social compromise DOES leave a good bit of room.
@@alexsolomon7991 "I don’t think we should defend ourselves against a -genocide- targeted mass murder", the convo. Better?
@@alexsolomon7991 The thing though: it's non-negociable. There's no compromise to be had. Trans people exist, are human, and have a right to healthcare the same way that, say, a man who needs genital reconstruction due to an unfortunate chainsaw kickback accident also deserves it, even though it's more cost-effective to make him an eunuch.
Paradox of tolerance 101: you're not obligated to tolerate someone because they shat on the sidewalk in public.
As for being called by what you want to be called and addressed the way you want to be addressed: You wouldn't call a Richard "Dick" if they said they didn't like being called Dick, or an Amy "Amanda" if they said they didn't like their birth name and prefer their nickname, right? Same basic shit there: just call people whatever they wanna be called, like, if I wanna be called Neo IRL because I actually answer more consistently to my username than to my RL name, then just go with Neo.
@@alexsolomon7991 but it isn't being pushed onto kids. And yes, the end game is complete elimination of trans people. Conservatives want to make it a taboo subject for kids, which it absolutely shouldnt be, because believe it or not, trans people are trans, even before they are adult.
There were hundreds of anti trans laws proposed, just this year. There are multiple anti trans laws already passed this year. There is no compromise to be had, trans people are one of the most marginalized groups there are already.
@@alexsolomon7991 genocide isn’t just racial. If you round up and kill all of the gay people for slaughter, that’s a genocide. If you round up everyone with 3 nipples and shoot them, that’s a genocide. Race is social, so how could it be more of an objective marker for genocide than the toes on your feet (for example) which is by far more objective?
I am a trans woman living in Texas. I have had a license to carry for many years. I carry a .45 with hollow points nearly everywhere I go. I am confident in my skills and I feel my safety is immensely increased by being able to defend myself.
rad
Heck yeah, stay safe out there
Most based Texan
hell yeah!
Hollow points Wow, I guess I think the treat of the gun would be enough, but then again people are really really stupid
As a Missourian I empathize with this person a great deal, but also as a Missourian I have to say if they’re not willing to consider firearm ownership for leftists as essential, they’re not paying attention to how a lot of conservatives here talk about LGBT+ people, especially trans people.
I'm glad I got out of Missouri when I did. I may live in Wisconsin now but it's actually a swing state here and I live in Madison which is really progressive and trans friendly. I just hope it doesn't get to the point I have to get political asylum.
@@mercedizbendz5194 Madison is like a super purple state from what I remember.
@@mercedizbendz5194 is Madison worth visiting if you're not from the US?
“I don’t think we should be fighting violence with violence”
That’s pretty much all you need to hear to understand this persons stance.
coward
Does Vaush have a gun?
@@oldluke7653
Yes, he owns guns.
@@hazardous0887 Thanks, never heard him say so.
@@oldluke7653
He has videos where he shows them off 😂
As a trans person: you could be a trans person and have mental issues that prevent you from owning a gun. You could also be a trans person that doesn't have mental issues (or had, and doesn't anymore) and just wants the chance to protect themselves against a very well known transphobic society. Your feelings don't dictate what other people in your community should act or do. It's not manipulation on Vaushs' part at all, it's you being polemic.
Yeah, this person (not sure of their pronouns) basically implied that all trans people are mentally ill. Which is really sussy coming from another tran
i think another point as grim as it is is why draw the line at guns… you dont _need_ a gun to kill yourself. it sure makes it easier, but theres more other ways to do it than i can even count and many of them are through methods way way way easier than aquiring a gun. why draw the line at those specifically? should we stop trans people from having cars and medicine because both can be used in suicide? why even stop at trans people, should anyone with depression or a risk of suicide just be tied to a table?
i havent seen the full thing yet but this is a strange angle to come from, especially as someone who id assume “gets it”, which i even dont…
Nothing is as quick and easy as suicide with a gun. The presumption is that consciousness ends the moment you pull the trigger. Don’t see many people stabbing themselves in the heart.
Gay panic defense laws are enough of a reason for trans people to own firearms.
@UCZi6EHxXTeoed9DaOpcK9sQ Incorrect. Gender dysphoria is a disorder, not "being trans". The best treatment known for gender dysphoria is to transition if CBT doesn't take.
That story about the armed activists protecting a homeless encampment is wonderful. This is absolutely how we do things in this country, rag-ass dallas newspaper.
Ask those people in dallas to remember what their fellow texan’s did to the mexicans who used to own that territory when most of their states was under Mexican control as a part of Mexico
and tell us that’s not how we do things in this country...
LOL the people who genocided the natives, and kicked the mexicans out to take over under the promise of manifest Destiny
totally did that way.
it sure is funny how they never cry about "civility" when the cops are deployed to destroy encampments and brutalize their residents
CHAZ?
Fancy seeing you here
The unspoken part of her argument is “well its pointless so just give up.” I understand Vaush probably didn't want want go there cos its touchy and upsetting but I wish Vaush said “so what's the alternative, roll over and die? I understand it might seem helpless sometimes but we have an obligation to protect each other, not just ourselves.”
EXACTLY! We need to at least TRY. Or if they kill you, take them out too. Better you both go to the grave than just you. But these milquetoast anti gun libs will never get it >:(
Strong agree. The other person was full of dismay, and needs a bit of reassurance that it's not over, it's not insurmountable
I felt the same thing, especially when she responded to his calls for the left in general arming themselves with phrases like "That's just not feasible" and "That's just not gonna happen". As a trans person who also deals with suicidal ideation, I don't trust myself with owning a gun. But I'm 100% with Vaush. If you are in a good mental state you should get armed as a proactive defensive measure. If you aren't, make friends with those that are so that you have someone that can protect you if needed.
I think a fairer interpretation of her argument is "it's not ever gonna work on a large scale AND it's gonna hurt some trans people, so it's a net negative and not worth trying." The issue isn't doomerism, it's fear of what might happen for little gain. Vaush did a good job of addressing her concerns while recognizing her concerns were valid. By the end she came around, and Vaush said he WOULDN'T want individual lefties to buy guns in bumfuck rural areas, just lefty communities in cities.
@@smartsport The problem is, trans people not defending themselves at all would be a bigger net negative than if a bunch of trans people defended themselves and some hurt themselves. I would hope none would hurt themselves, obviously, but it's better for us (even individually) to fight back when we're being attacked than to do nothing, because even if some of us hurt ourselves, fascists will hurt us regardless. The thing hate groups want us to do the most is give up.
we can’t just lay down and die because it looks hopeless or because “it won’t do anything.” that being said, i hope that person gets out of missouri soon. they deserve to be safe.
Imagine what would be happening in Ukraine now if they had had this view of the world.
There are totally people who are so brutally pacifist that they are out here advocating for exactly that -.-
Actually you don't even have to imagine. Just look at history.
Thank you! I was able to get out of Missouri and am now farther north in a blue state. I feel weird coming back to this debate as there were many things happening in my personal life which clouded my judgement.
Certain people are calling all trans people groomers is not overblown. Period. It is a real thing occuring against a certain group so, the certain group should take precaution to defend themselves in case this absolutely real thing is happening, which it actually is.
They will still make mean tweets even if you are armed
if you personally don't trust yourself to keep a gun, don't keep a gun. For a time, I didn't trust myself enough to keep a pair of sufficiently sharp scissors. I certainly don't trust myself to have a gun in my house. But not all trans people are on the brink of offing themselves, even if we're more likely to lean that way than cis people. Those trans people who are stable enough for a gun and feel comfortable keeping one responsibly should be able to get one if they want it. End of.
This. Trans people aren’t all suicidal, but all trans people can be targets of violence at any time. Ultimately it’s up to the person themselves to decide if they can handle that responsibility. Part of this is our gun background checks being so lax and decades behind other countries so we are just now starting the debate about mental health and guns.
This is the first step to responsible gun ownership. "Do I trust myself with a gun?" Its perfectly fine to decide you shouldn't own a gun for x reason(s).
Maybe you are sad or in a dark spot at the moment and are afraid you might harm yourself with said gun. Mad respect for being able to perform that introspection about yourself.
Maybe you're in a rough relationship at the moment and know you tend to lash out. Deciding not to own a gun cause you might use it in a fit of rage is again commendable.
Its literally just an aversion to guns. I get that guns aren't exactly toys, but id prefer to not be genocided by cleatus and his good ol boys.
Unfortunately it's a rock and a hard place situation. All it will take is one instance of self defence using a gun and right wing media will turn it into a 'trans people are terrorists' story, and even if the court case is ruled as self-defence, right-wingers will use it as a talking point forever
@@lloroshastar6347 maybe, but then we use Kyle Rittenhouse against them.
Haha I love that rhyme brosef that’s fantastic
Liberals are transphobic too FYI
I’m a black trans woman, I’m at the very bottom of the social ladder right above the homeless, I own a gun. I have mental illnesses but I don’t trust conservatives and I live in fear of getting attacked so to protect myself and stop someone from killing me, I own one. It’s not an issue of trans ppl shouldn’t arm up it’s an issue of they are armed and dangerous so we need to have that same deterrent. It’s not fighting fire with fire, it’s avoiding the fire but knowing full well using fires to burn circles around a forest fire keeps it from spreading. A fortress armed to the teeth will likely not get sieged or will survive sieges more often then those that aren’t. If ur mental isn’t good, don’t get one but if u get a good evaluation and follow better gun laws.
I 100% support that all of you get armed. Coming from a white pansexual man.
This country is going downhill quickly on a social and political level. I'm considering moving outside of the US because of how bad things are getting.
@@hughjass69933 Same.
This poor girl sounds so afraid. I'm glad Vaush was so nice to her, not that I'm surprised he was since I think he could tell she was afraid as well, even if she was afraid for the wrong reasons.
>her
I think this caller is using their very serious trauma as a talking point. My trans gf is super into guns, especially self defense. I, on the other hand, am against it due to the bad experiences that I have attached to them.
To imply that all trans people are simply not mentally healthy enough to own a gun is ableist. And if they don't use a gun, there's literally tons of other ways to kys. Should we ban knives? Bridges? Bleach? Prescription drugs?
it is absolutely not ableist to say that if most trans people owned guns, you would see a high uptick in suicide rates for trans people. it doesn’t mean bar trans people from owning them, just that if as a community it was a big part of our lives, it would currently cause more problems than fix any.
owning bleach doesn’t make you more likely to commit suicide, owning a gun does. come on now, you can’t just dismiss stats to make a case for being pro-gun. you have to acknowledge truth and then still make the case that it is for the better
Yes. This person hears what Vaush is saying and it is triggering and traumatizing for them, and pushing her own suicidal ideation and she is assuming that others broadly will have the same experience from hearing what Vaush is saying. I think there is a good-faith discussion that could be had here if that was realized ("Hey Vaush, your talk about this stuff affected me in this way and it might affect some others that way") but it's being held as a universal truth.
@@etienneboivin2992 Owning a gun doesn’t make you more likely to commit suicide, it just makes it more deadly in the split second you decide to go through with it.
@@etienneboivin2992 "owning bleach doesn’t make you more likely to commit suicide, owning a gun does."
This is incorrect.
Owning a gun doesn't make you more likely to attempt to commit suicide than owning bleach, it just makes you MUCH more successful at it.
As a trans person -- I 100% agree with the sentiment of staying armed, especially here in the south.
if you go into any conservative space, or even just hear about conservatives speaking on us, it is a very obviously dangerous and naive thing to say that trans and queer people are not in danger, or that danger is being "overblown" saying trans people cannot own guns is not only saying we are all mentally unstable, which is a transphobic generalization led by harmful stereotypes, but is also infantilizing, any adult american has a right to firearms. if you are worried about you or someone you know personally owning firearms, have concerns about escalating situations, or legality issues, pepper spray, in general, sounds like a good alternative. while trans people statistically do have worse mental health, it's not okay to say we're not allowed to do whatever we feel is just, in order to protect ourselves.
Everyone's in danger with how divided we are. I'm right of center and I have no issue with you owning a gun. Idc about the debate so much. To me there is 3 genders and 2 sexes. I came to that from old old dictionary definitions.
Thinking we are nazis out to get you will cause you to react. Hateful people are everywhere on the right and left. This division is fueling it and I just wanna be friends that are able to talk so we can, together, drain the swamp and start making our politicans on both sides work for us rather than control us.
United we stand divided we fall.
Love ya
@@ipeeinpublicpools543 be gone with this both sides unity bs. Your goals and beliefs will lead to violence against my friends, family, and innocent people. Even if you don’t believe in direct violence against trans people, not actively fighting against it shows that you’re complicit in what’s happening.
That was beautiful. “Do you have an issue with hysteria/ fear mongering, or an issue with amassing firearms as a deterrent for genocidal violence?”
When dishonest people conflate your points, just de-conflate them with a simple clarifying question. I love it.
People need to stop pretending the right hasn't gone completely insane
Yeah, I know for a fact I would’ve gotten tripped up if I was in Vaush’s position.
You seem to be genuinely deranged, because it's clear that this person is grappling with an issue as opposed to being this conniving malicious actor. You clearly have social intelligence of a cupboard. They are inconsistent, but that doesn't mean dishonest. Now the Rose Mullet person that supposed liberals and leftists are platforming left and right, she is absolutely dishonest. Shoe, also an example of a dishonest person. Tankie Mel, an another good example. Inconsistency alone doesn't mean dishonesty.
I would have said " Yes, I do have a problem aquiring weapons for a problem that doesnt exist"
Vaush would start crying and puking and cumming all at the same time.
People in the comments should be more sensitive to the fact that this caller is clearly speaking from a personal fear of suicidal ideation. A trans femme person brought up in the foster system in Missouri with only enough savings to buy a one-way ticket? Of course the argument isn't strong. The person isn't strong right now.
then they shouldn't own a firearm then now should they? Vaush has always said that if you are mentally unstable to the point where suicide is a real threat then you shouldn't buy one
all due respect but they went out of their way to contact vaush for a public debate so... yea. they knew what they were walking into and should have a real argument outside of "I'm scared and suicidal therefore all trans people are scared and suicidal and shouldn't have a gun".
She is literally saying we'd all rather die then fight back
I own a gun, I've owned one for a while
I'm not going to kill myself
And I don't want her speaking for me
If she would rather get Genocided then allow vaush to get more stable trans women to own firearms so we don't get completely genocided
I kinda just want her to shut up.
Because she isn't doing any good.
That's fair, though they Should have the self awareness to understand that there fear makes them irrational and irrationality should not be advocated for
@@jidk6565 Basically my line of thought although I didn't want to be so blunt but I completely agree I don't want to stand idly by when my fellow Countrymen are murdered for thier identity becuase I'm scared that the far right has spooky bad guys. I believe in the constitution and the rights of all people in this country including my fellow Americans who are transgender or non white I still believe this country has the capacity to do wonderful things for the world and its about time we start acting like it starting with protecting the most vulnerable in our nation
Though she is wrong, I'm glad Vaush was nice about that disagreement. It was clearly a personal problem around guns and the knowledge that a lot of our community is sadly made suicidal by a lot of factors including the knowledge deep down that people might physically hurt you just for being. I hope her and her friend can get out safely of their terrible state and get to somewhere safer where a gun might actually do a difference.
I actually can't think of something more condescending than saying "trans people are easily manipulated by UA-camrs and can't be trusted with firearms". I understand for some folks it would be unwise, but if trans people want to arm themselves they should have that right.
"Are you happy to see me or is that a gun in your pants?"
"Both."
Not even 5 minutes in and the person sounds like a fed.
Framing self-defense as "fighting violence with violence" is peak fed behavior.
I dunno if they're a fed, I just think they're very young and have a basic understanding of what violence is without applying nuance
if the guest is a fed... shit this is like when the CIA and Pentagon backed troops fought each other all over again.
This is so stupid, the viewer isn't a fed, they're just one of those idiots who buys into peaceful means of changing the world.
The same idiots who think MLK would've accomplished anything without the violence that existing around the civil rights movement.
I don't think we should fight violence with violence. Well guess we go with the alternative which go ahead and die.
She’s not a fed. She’s just a liberal.
When I came out to my trans friend she told me I should buy a gun or some sort of self defense weapon to keep on me. She said she always gets deadnamed, purposely called he/him or sir and sometimes they just straight up try to have an argument with her about how she’ll never be a woman. It’s a damn shame that she has to experience that all I can do is hope that my experience is a lot better
Thanks for having me on to debate. I was really nervous coming on, but it didn’t go as poorly as I thought it would.
I’ve thought of the conversation for a while afterwards. I don’t agree with you on everything, but you’re probably right on this one.
Also my pronouns are she/her but it’s fine if the comments didn’t realize, I should’ve specified.
You didn't so sound nervous, this was pretty freaking courageous of you.
I hope you're situation improves soon! I'm not based in the US, but I wonder if there are any charities or services in your state that might be able to support you? In my experience, I've always been surprised how many resources are out there (at least compared to the 0 that I assumed there were), but they're just really bad at outreach and finding the people they're trying to help. Just thinking out loud though, maybe it's something you've explored already!
@@Whitepawprint I don’t really know, but I’ve definitely been looking. Have a donation page, but I’m worried it’ll get removed by the auto mod.
I hella hope you get yourself to a better location, homie. If you want to consider SF, I recommend looking up SRO's, single room occupancy or "residential hotels". We barely have any left but some are still around and they're one of the few remaining affordable-ish options in the City. If you and your friend can move together and split rent, there's studios in certain neighborhoods as low $1500.
You did perfectly fine and the conversation was quite valuable.
If you don’t feel that you’re in the proper mental state to own a gun, then please don’t do anything that could result in your own harm. The push to have Leftist communities as a whole engage in gun ownership is to form a counter to the stochastic terrorism and predatory militia activity from those on the far right who’ve been radicalized into violence by conservative media and political figures who are equally radicalized. Unfortunately, we’ve seen in numerous occasions that right wing militias are quite emboldened by law enforcement backing and by targeting groups and communities they feel are disarmed. As Vaush said, it’s not about defeating conservatives in some Great Civil War, but in keeping your neighborhood safe when the day comes that these militia groups decide to come in to “protect” your community from “degeneracy”.
Stay safe out there and get out of Missouri if you feel it’s hostile to you.
"It's all hopeless, we should just let them take us to the camps"
Nah, I'd rather die on my feet than on my knees.
Its very frustrating to hear someone who doesn't think their existence is worth the trouble of defending
“I don’t think we should fight violence with violence.”
You broke her with one clarifying question wow
Yes. Communal self-defense by any means necessary is the only option against fascism.
I mean there are a few other options but yeah, this is a good one
Problem is the community needs to understand what fascism is to do that. My community is facsist themselves bro
and playing videogames. Get outside man.
@@seanfoley974 Video Games help keep me sane.
@@fuglong what community is that?
I wonder if this person realizes a ton of cop precincts have ties to far right groups. So cops do actually have an incentive to side with right wing insurectionists
If the guys on the other side have guns, why shouldn't you?
Cause it doesn’t solve any issues.
@@pchavez8833 Purposely making yourself more vulnerable doesn't solve any issues either. You might as well even the field.
I’m sorry, but Trans people aren’t the only people that we’d be fighting for liberation for, the idea that we shouldn’t fight fascism with guns and instead only focus on getting trans people out of republican states is just weird.
They probably should but I don't think they will do it tho
im trans i do it
@xo pretty sure the OP means “the majority” by they but pop off dude
@xo are you the person in the call
"the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good them with a gun" -Vonch
Adolf in his bunker
“Capitalism is chad” Vonch
They/them platoons shall be the shock troops of the revolution, your dogo is beautiful btw.
@@Natalietrans then once vowsh establishes gommunism he'll change his mind and say cummunisum is chad instead
Typical grifty voch
@@fithianmt7468 surface to air cancelations and intercontinental ballistic video essays
I live in a right wing area and I'll tell you that everyone has weapons. I have visited the homes of so many people in my town and I have yet to see 1 without at least a shotgun. If you genuinely believe that the government might become tyrannical (which you should) then you should want your left wing communities to look the same.
“I don’t think we should fight violence with violence”. He drank his own cool aide. Just because you carry or own a firearm for protection doesn’t mean you’re looking for violence. But that’s the Liberal talking point so he says it despite his own best interests.
That's the liberal talking point, not the left
When it comes to specifics I think the "we can't become our enemy" vibe can be based but something as general as "violence" is just stupid.
@@marciamakesmusic IMPORTANT distinction. Thank you
she, I think
@@marciamakesmusic this. socialists generally believe (or should believe) in gun rights because marginalized people genuinely need them in the current climate. liberals are the ones who are against gun rights because they're scared of revolution against a status quo that benefits the (majority white middle class) liberal population
If you’re trans and you need to defend yourself have a gun, if you’re uncomfortable with guns at least take self defense class. I’ve been taking Karate classes for half a decade OSU! 👊
Hell, I myself don't have the best mental state, but I have 20+ guns, and will keep amassing them. I'm an Historical Collector of pre 1899 rifles, shotguns, and double action revolvers. They're still very usable and deadly in 2022 and beyond. Some of the older guns are even MORE deadly than newer ones due to the larger calibers and the use of soft lead projectiles.
That’s pretty cool
i love old guns. get em with style no conservatives taking you down.
@@CyanTeamProductions Thanks!
@@hgbguy Definitely!
Yes with a capital Y.
And it would be smart for every other marginalized community to do the same, STAT.
And not just arm themselves and that's it, go to the shooting range, and practice with vigor, and aim for the head.
Aiming for the head is a fool game
Aim center mass
Ya I'm not a gun person but from everything I've heard aiming for the head is a bad idea, you should aim for center mass. The reason as I understand it is this: if you're shooting someone at all it's because you want them dropped as quickly as possible and you're in a stressful and dangerous situation. Shooting in those situations is hard - you want to aim for the biggest possible target to ensure your safety as best as possible.
Larp larp and more larp.
You never aim for the head outside of Call of Duty. Even in Battlefield it's a stupid strategy, let alone in ARMA and especially so in reality.
Always aim center mass. This isn't a video game.
I know a few trans people who call me the socialist redneck as I've got a few guns at home, and in currently teaching them how to use and handle guns
Based.
Based
Guns are great, being trans doesn't inherently make you undeserving of the trust required by society to permit you to get a gun, trans people should buy guns just because they're fun as long as they're responsible, particularly if they aren't suicidal. In addition to that, man do trans people need to be able to defend themselves with deadly force more than ever
Short answer yes
They're coming for us
Be ready
so stop playing so many videogames and get outside and exercise
@@seanfoley974 already do, we organize, and we're armed
Have fun ❤️
@@seanfoley974 my man you have a Deus ex profile picture
@@lx4079 Yea. Deus Ex was amazing. Pretty happy with Cyberpunk also. No substitute for reality however.
@@HannahNoell So let me get this straight. You and a group of paramilitary trans people do what... roleplay in the woods with AR's incase "they" come for us? Who are "they" anyway...
Arm to defend not for /REDACTED/
"Self defense is bad, actually, because violence is bad"
edit: aww that was actually pretty nice in the end. it seemed like they changed their mind a bit
“I am a pathetic piece of shit who probably shouldn’t own guns, therefore violence even in self defense is bad”.
That’s the argument
If you are struggling mentally whether you are trans, straight, right wing, hate gays, ect don't get a gun.
If you can pass a mental health check and you feel you need a gun, in the case of defending the trans community from the people who want to harm them...it shouldn't have to come to that. Problem is, it kind of has become a necessity.
You have an unrealistic understanding of "mental health checks"
@@LitchAustin As in believing in Jewish Space Lasers would mean you shouldn't qualify?
@@tsstevensts as in thinking that believing in Jewish space laser would prevent anyone from getting a gun in america, that's just not the way mental health checks work.
The way mental health checks actually work is beyond stupid. Basically all that counts is a conviction for drug use or a being found not guilty of a crime from "mental defect".
You can be stark raving howling at at the moon bonkers, but if you have managed to avoid a /conviction/ and candy come up with the cash and hold it together enough to put it on the counter at a gun store they can buy a gun.
I'm sorry to tell you but there ain't no gun sanity clause.
@@LitchAustin Well then shouldn't there be checks made to see if you're insane before being allowed a gun?
@@tsstevensts the devil is in the details, who gets to determine what is "sane"? I know a whole bunch of gun experts who would regard any number of fundamental precepts I believe in (things like transwomen are women, collective systems are superior to independent ones, and the history does not consist of great men, etc) as rank insanity.
I'm extremely anti-gun but if that's what it will take for them to fucking leave us alone then I'd say it was worth it
my personal belief is that removing guns from the population is a very utopian idea. it would be awesome, and in the meantime I am strongly in favor of gun regulation, such as a national gun registry, magazine limits, illegalizing bump stocks, etc. but conservatives do make an occasional good point, once in a while, and one of those rare good points is that having guns to protect against "government tyranny" (nazism) is important, at least right now.
@@AMR_Setsunai A national registry? That's insane. You want our white supremacist state to know every black and trans person who has a gun? Why would you ever want to give the state we currently live under more power?
There's no disarming while a heavily armed, violent enemy lives in our borders.
We can worry about disarming when they're defeated.
@@Mae_Dastardly ikr? Canada bro... Canada.
@@AMR_Setsunai It should also be considered that violent crime happens without guns, and some people are weaker than others just naturally. And some demographics are more likely to be targeted by violence than others. Women for example are likely to be targeted in specific ways. So are just less intimidating people in general.
I'm a small guy, personally. I can say that if someone is coming at me with a knife and is also on crack or whatever, I don't want a knife to fight them off with if they corner me or something. Honestly, I don't want to be within ten feet of them. I want a gun. I know the chance of that happening is low, but it only takes it happening once to die or something else horrific, which they might try to do; it's already established that yes, people WILL just kill you for seemingly no or little reason sometimes. Oftentimes people talk about the gun debate with only mass shootings in mind, but never really talk about home invasions where the likelihood of one being used in self-defense is greater, since many people keep their guns at home if they have any at all. I think it's harmful to ignore home defense in the conversation on guns.
I think this highlights the problem I fundamentally have with anti gun leftist boiled down to a single video
In a perfect world no one would have guns, and there wouldn't be any hate on those who are different. We don't live in a perfect world protect yourself from those who wish you harm.
This is just sad fr, they are clearly just in a really bad place themselves rn. Plenty of trans people don't want to kill themselves, almost all of them have had the healthcare they need though and as that is getting harder and harder it totally makes sense why someone would feel really doomer about this
Spot on, an up voted comment made by someone who isn't a dudebro crippled by severe lack of social and emotional intelligenmce.
@@AnEntropyFan wow thank you omg. That means a lot because I'm autistic AF and for the majority of my life had the emotional and social intelligence of a postage stamp.
@@fuglong
Case in point, the barrier isn't unattainably high. A lot of people are autistic, probably myself as well. Which is why I noted that you need to be a dudebro first and foremost to fall under the threshold, not even AF grade autism (actual DSM69 terminology)in of itself will make one incapable of figuring it out. The human condition can be understood on an intellectual level; so lack of social acuity, lack of intelligence and callo0us disregard all together are necessary. You know, the same conflagration of reasons whythunderf00t doesn't understand how come women wear V-cut shirts (he thinks it's for his attention), autism alone doesn't lead to the insane conclusion.
I get what this person is saying in regard to the mental health issues that effect trans people across the board for many reasons, and how that isnt the best combination with what is a dangerous weapon, involving themselves. But i think this is also something that should be considered on a case by case basis, and that every trans person revolving around each side of this argument are not the same. Trans people are varied, rather if that is through circumstances, mental health, access to safety, etc.
The lesson is that trans people should do what makes them (as an individual) feel safe, regardless if that is owning a gun or not owning a gun.
@@CrossmoorMafia I think it should be stated that i dont think vaush is 100 percent right or wrong either. Like i said i think it is a case by case basis depending on the individual trans person in question and what makes them feel more safe, rather that is gun or no gun.
I find it stupid and offensive that that person conflated being trans/queer with being crazy. Just because we have gender dysphoria or are gender-non-conforming doesn’t mean that we’re going to commit random impetuous acts of violence against ourselves or others. A lot of us just live our lives.
@@darryljack6612 voosh said dark souls 2 has good content so he's always wrong
There have been a few conversations like this recently. I feel like people who have a problem with Vaush's rhetoric are simply stuck on the idea that it can't happen here. I get it. I have a hard time imagining that a lot of Republicans want people dead. And I don't think that a bunch of guns will do much in the long run. But I can still imagine the possibility of things getting real bad, and having guns would help.
Come from a country which has problems similar to what vaush is talking about over other issues and the USA isn't there and what he is suggesting isn't the solution. All it did was put a bullseye on the head of those arming and defending themselves. No one any longer even remembers what they stood for, not even those who initially defended themselves. Their regions have been war zones for generations which every subsequent government has endorsed violence against.
Vaush is playing fast and lose because it is good for his channel. Even if what he believes came to pass you can bet your bottom dollar he would be the very sort to run as those he egged on pay the price. Even now he doesn't engage in anything that doesn't help his income or brand.
Violence just furthers violence, There is a reason why Vaush use examples of german, because it is one of the only circumstances things couldn't have gotten worse.
Even if you don't trust yourself owning a gun due to mental illness or if you can't because of criminal record it's at least very useful to learn self-defense. I was a victim of a hate crime in Las Vegas as a transgender woman when a transphobic guy sucker punched me in the mouth maybe bleed but luckily that was the only damage he did. And of course the police didn't do crap but at least he got banned from the salvation army. As a sex worker in the community I definitely need to take self-defense classes. Being transgender those skills can easily save our lives. Don't be another statistic.
I think its not about trans people arming themselves (and they definitely should), but about leftists, antifascists and socialists responsibly taking up guns
watch how incredibly fast conservatives are going to want gun laws to be issued once it happens
@@isuckatusernames4297 It happened with the black panther party
@@ՆոլանՊետրոսյան yeah, weren't thise guys bassically gaslit by the police and all ended up getting arrested/shot ?
You think they would have survived better if they weren't armed?
@@LitchAustin I dont understand your question
As a trans person, I find the accusation that "because I'm trans I must therefore be too psychologically unstable to own a firearm responsibly" to be incredibly prejudiced, insulting, and patronising, and on top of that it also happens to be incorrect.
I live in the UK though so fortunately I don't need to own a firearm.
Well trans people have a wayyyyyy higher rate of suicide compared with other demographics so just handing out guns to them seems like a bad idea
The very beginning of the video says so much about this conversation.
"Oh god it's the person and they messaged me 13 times and called 4 times"
There’s no suicidality inherent to being trans. It’s an outside cause.
Are you being serious?
@@kye4216 Yes? Is there something wrong with what I said? I almost didn’t comment it because I thought it was incredibly obvious.
@@taMeska you think the reason trans people have high suicide rates is because of outside factors not because they're transgender?
This year is the year that finally pushed me to take a firearms training course.
Don't fight violence with violence, guys. Just give the psychotic republic raiding party leader a big hug and the day will be saved!
Arm or prepare the TransAmerica underground railroad.
both
Thanks for having "this person" (since I don't know their name or pronouns as we weren't introduced to them before the debate, Vaush is usually good about asking) on. The discussion seems like it was good for them to kinda work through how they were feeling about guns and trans people protecting themselves. I hope they stay safe and find a nice place to move to. 🤗
Also like what was the point of calling in? You know Vaush's stance and all you call to say is "I don't think that"? Okay cool, do you have like an actual argument or???
When you're too close to the situation you can't take a step back to reassess and you need people to help walk you out of your logic hole.
Misread thumbnail as "Are Trans People?" and was scared for Vaush's answer
All this person is doing is deliberately obfuscating Vaush's point. Community arming is not the same as "a few people having guns". This is how all liberals have to talk about guns. Deliberately misrepresent the opposing argument and use grossly exaggerated overly emotional language.
This was more of a therapy session than a debate
@@transquelaag All debates are on some level therapy sessions
@@LitchAustin so true
I know she means well but i can't stand the liberal attitude towards guns.
"I don't think we should fight violence with violence"
"Why not?"
"Erm, um,"
Sometimes you just hear someone's voice and know they are going to be annoying.
If it's any comfort, fascists have an uncanny knack for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
Methods include: Politicizing science, scapegoating useful minorities, taking on too many enemies at once and failing to cooperate effectively with their allies.
However, fascists can do considerable damage in the process of losing...
Well they may end up losing in the end, but often times they gain enough power to seriously fuck shit up in a short span of time before losing.
Tacticool Gf and queer armorer are both awesome UA-cam channels I’d recommend!
We need more lefty gun channels, not only are con gun channels the majority they have the most obnoxious asthetics.
@@fithianmt7468 Word. At least there's always Forgotten Weapons
The fact my yt is 50% breadtube and 50% guns and yet I hadn't heard about Queer armorer 'till know is criminal tbh
@@BackwardsPancake true 100%, even con gun channels aren't always bad just alot are obnoxiously Republican, it's a reflection of u.s gun culture in general unfortunately.
It amazes me how many viewers come on without any arguments. It’s all “i thinks”. Very passionate about their beliefs but absolutely no way to show why others should.
Yes
If you don’t like guns, don’t buy guns. Don’t try to force everyone else to not buy guns because you don’t like them or you’re suicidal. Just don’t buy them
I'm only about 5 minutes in and man I can't watch this without pausing every 30 seconds this argument is so bad
I gave up at the three minute mark because I could see how the entire conversation would progress.
Agreed, the fact that citizens needs guns or assault rifles is insane! We need to ban all guns like other modern countries!
@@picolascage8123 I really hope you're joking.
@@ApexRevolution why would I joke? Do you really think citizens need guns? You sound like a conspiracy theorist
@@picolascage8123 Oh so you think the police, who have a habit of shooting unarmed people, are the only ones that should have guns? You know that if all marginalized people and left leaning people disarm themselves, all the neo nazis aren't going to suddenly disarm themselves. Disarming yourself only puts you at a disadvantage.
"Do you really think your guns are gonna stop these lunatics?"......... Do you think asking them to leave nicely is gonna stop these lunatics? Ffs ya may not stop them outright, but ya take a few of them out they're gonna think twice about coming in.
This is a good topic. I believe the right to keep and bear arms is appropriate for all groups, regardless of their orientation or political stance. I agree with a quote attributed to the the famous science fiction rifle Robert Heinlein, " an armed society is a polite society". I hope this gentleman can get people to see sense and exercise their second amendment right to own firearms.
I'm gay, and carrying a gun has made me feel much safer when im in public.
Does someone have a link to their GoFundMe?
I mean considering the state of politics right now, YES
I'm 39 seconds in and this person is already grinding my gears, let's see if it gets any better
Did it get better or did you close the video? 😂
@@ohteddyboyo well they weren't as annoying or bad faith as that "I've been sitting in discord for 30 minutes" comment initially made me assume, but also I feel like nothing vaush said was new and yet they still seemed to end up agreeing at least more than when they started? so while it's good that they seemed at least more comfortable with vaush's arguments, it also feels like they should've been aware of those points before the conversation happened? overall 2.7/10 gear grinding, which puts it below most convos/debates he has lmao
Yes but not with firearms specifically. It can be as simple as mace or a taser(where legal) especially if you’re a transwoman.
Hope this person gets the help that they need 👍
But seriously I really think for most people the intent of buying and having a gun is like pretty unlikely to change from "I will use this to protect myself from people who want to kill me" to "mama mia actually a super duper easy way to kill myself whoopsie!" after the gun is purchased. That's just my intuition tho
Most of the time the gun self-gameovers tend to be opportunistic attempts (as in, person hits rock bottom and wants OUT and to stop the pain), just to correct your assumption that intent is even somewhere in the equation. There's a reason why the people who survive are horrified by their own attempt and tend to be less likely to attempt a second time, and it's a last-second realization and regret.
Keep people from HITTING rock bottom and they're safe with guns, push them down to the rock and give them a gun and you might as well have murdered them yourself.
@@neoqwerty one solution for those pepos. hand mortar.
@@neoqwerty An even larger number are effectively red-state euthansia where an aging usually a white man although not necessarily a man or white has discovered they're dying of something. The rock bottom hasn't been hit, but a terminal condition will only get worse.
Edit: State laws with death with dignity likely would reduce the old white man suicide problem that is commonplace in the US, but such laws are rare in blue states let alone purple or red states.
@@neoqwertythis whole argument is dumb honestly. I'd rather risk a few unstable people ending themselves then being totally unready for the right-wing militia deaths squads. You act like this hasn't happened before, we know based on current events we're just few steps from right-wing deaths squads. The time to have to fight to exist is coming, grow up amd be ready
In every red state I want every transperson and gay person to be armed. I want them to defend themselves and be unforgiving.
Odd they want to move to Cali or Maryland when Illinois is right there literally neighboring their home state. Even if they can't afford to move to Deep Blue Chicago, St Louis is still right there on the MO/IL Stateline, they could just go to the IL side which is still pretty blue
This is awesome we have old debate vaush for short period of time
A decade ago I'd have agreed with this person. I too was in my early twenties at the time. I'm glad to see Vaush took the time to understand them. They're young and think there are better ways. Unfortunately... no. There aren't. The right and their lowest common denominator followers have had it so good for so long that they view ANY form of change in which they have to concede rights to others as a loss of their own. They genuinely believe that not being able to oppress others is an attack on their rights and freedoms. Daring to live as they do and not care is not only reckless, it's life threatening. We have always had to keep one eye open and that's not going to suddenly change because the people at the top have deemed us as safe to market to. Never forget that. Obviously, I'm not saying we arm ourselves with the intent to use. I'm saying we arm ourselves with the sincere hope that we never have to. They started this, not us.
“It was nice talking to you too I guess” sorry vaush lol
I don't like guns but don't begrudge anyone for owning one. I DO begrudge a society and social structure in which that's becoming increasingly seen as a necessity, if that makes sense.
That said, if things get that bad, I think it's going to be infinitely more effective to steer the insurrectionists into conflicts with the feds, while lefties stay on the sidelines as much as possible.
If you don't fight violence with violence, what do you fight it with? Prayer?
If you have to ask, the answer is usually yes.
This went so much better than the convo with the tankie who wanted to violate women in law enforcement
Cons: (make attack helicopter joke)
Transes: (have attack helicopters)
"Um well, i know ppl personally, in my life, who want me dead and have told me to my face that given the opportunity they would kill me for no other reason than that my continued existence disgusts them... but honestly, arming myself seems like a bit of like a over reaction and like what if I have to like hurt someone who is actively trying to brutalize and murder me.."
There is a program for someone in crises, to have their guns held temporarily, it's literally called the "hold my guns"
I love the convo, I just hear his tone at the end though.
He sounds saddened and that hits for whatever reason. 💔
Probably something to do with the fact that in the first minute, the entire chat is like "kill yourself nerd" or demonmama all caps "OH HEEEEEEERE WE GOOOOOOOO", can the guest even say their point before the chat shouts for death jesus christ
Yes. Everyone should arm themselves.
Yes.
Yes they do
The short answer is yes, I despise violence yet I can no longer abide violence being unduly manifested upon me. A Quaker with a gun, what a fucking world. It is the last resort yet somehow comforting to have and that, in and of itself, is sickening. ✌️💜🌈
Vaush has said plenty of times not to keep a gun in your home if you're struggling with suicidal ideation. Like almost every time he brings up arming oneself, he mentions that as a caveat. It really does just seem like the real issue the guest has with what Vaush says is that they're just against firearms in general. And I get that.I really do, cause I used to feel the same way about guns. But I just think they're wrong about this. Especially in these very uncertain times we're living in rn, people need to be as prepared as possible for things to go "south". (Lol, get it? Cause these are the same people who'd wanna see black people legally made into second-class citizens, or just actual slaves, again. Awful, stupid joke, I know lol...)
That being said, I do generally agree with them at least on the concept of non-violent means of changing the current situation. I believe that in most cases we should make an effort to exhaust all forms of non-violent protest and dissent before resorting to violence. But what Vaush is advocating for isn't even "go shoot your conservative neighbors" or whatever tf. As far as I've seen, he's just been saying lefties need to BE PREPARED in case Republicans take full control of the government, the U.S. goes full on fascist, and conservatives start coming for those of us they view as degenerates. Not actively go out and start unjustly murdering people.
This requires loosening gun laws in major cities and heavily populated states like Cali, New York, Illinois, etc to be effective. Shit won’t be fun when all you got is a 10 rd max capacity, finned-stocked, single action only peashooter with 4rds of ammo.