Buyer Beware - Used Gun Nightmare
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- Welcome to Ron Spomer Outdoors! Used firearms. Sometimes you get a great buy and sometimes you get a lemon. And today we might just have someone here who's got himself a lemon. Let's stay tuned and see if we can't find out how to buy a used rifle online, sight unseen. This episode of Ron Summer Outdoors.
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Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
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Disclaimer
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely.
If the gunsmith fired the rifle without cleaning out the cutting fluid and metal chips, I'd start by finding a new gunsmith!
Exactly! What a joke. "Oh I was in a hurry, I wanna go shoot it, I'll clean it later." After machining the chamber! Really? Ron's guest here seems like a nice guy, but has more dollars than sense. How used was that split case? Factory loads worked fine, and didn't stick. Have a clue. Just a guess, but maybe look really close at the inscription of the serial numbers on the bolt and action. The bolt never even shows up in the video.....................................huh.
He said he was an Aussie. Nuff said.
Yeah sounds like the gun Smith needs to stop and repay this guy
@@billspalding4373he does mention this later in the video that the serials did match on both the bolt and receiver and had actually confirmed this with the seller before it ever shipped... I agree with your point though in the hand load suspicions and getting a new Smith that won't shotgun steel shards down the bore on him like that SMH
G g
If someone was demanding a ton from me as a seller, I'd simply pass on them. They'll probably be unhappy about something. 10% of people will create 90% of your issues, and better to pre-identify them and get them to move along. Don't get dollar signs in the eyes. Just like a buyer should move on when there's red flags, so should a seller.
Very well said
ABSOLUTELY!! I’ve run into high demand buyers that send up red flags! I hate when someone calls you back after a sale and is nitpicking everything about it! Even if you answered all their questions with had detailed pics and description. I’ve learned the same lesson on passing up buyers .
A chamber not closing is too demanding . I cant believe anyone would dare think a gun should work .
Good evening gentlemen. I have been loading for the 300 magnums of every kind for 53 years and my suggestion to the mod 70 in 300 H & H is do not try to load down for the H&H. My experience shows me that the round can and sounds like has built excessive pressure and swelled the case hence the difficulty extracting the case. My second reason for this theory is the firing of the factory ammunition with no apparent problem. I’m convinced it’s the ammo and not the gun. Nothing was done wrong other than just not enough powder to fill the area in the case and when the primer discharges the flame ignites more surface area of powder producing a faster discharge of the powder hence a higher pressure and your stuck case. Check the primer face and see if it’s not flat. The belted magnum cases are not designed to load down, I never load a belted magnum round with less than 86% of the case capacity. Bullet weight, style, and seating depth needs to be taken into consideration too as well as the powder. The recoil of the 300 H &H is not that severe. I understand the love of the round, I shoot the 300 Winchester and the 264 Winchester magnums and once you do you will understand why we shoot them. I have a pet 300 loading that at 500 yds is still traveling near 2300 fps and 2200 fl s of energy which is more than the 243 100 gr bullets have at the muzzle. The 7 mm Rem mag is the 264 necked out of 284.
Anything the 7 mm Rem mag can do the 300 Win mag can do better. Get your bullet bc over .610 and the 300 mags will bring home the back strap every time you pull the trigger.
Again load your H & H with a minimum of 85% case capacity and you will not have a problem, the functioning factory ammunition producing the sun moa results tells me you get your seating depth right and tune the powder and leave the barrel alone because you have a shooter. The headspace problem concerns me, did the factory ammunition function before the headspace issue was changed?
What brass did you reload and had it been trimmed? Several unanswered questions but keep the case capacity 85% plus and I don’t think you will have this problem again. Good luck Gentlemen!
Phil
Sounds like you understand reloading...better than most
I have read about this to that very light loads where powder in a case that is under 50% can detonate because the primer instantly ignites the entire charge and cause a very dangerous pressure spike. I remember pictures of a revolver cylinder blown apart and top strap of revolver blown off, I think it was .38 special with under 50% powder space used.
Thank you very much.Sir!
My first thought also. Possible over pressure due to under loading. Less powder isn't always better. 2nd is the condition of that batch of powder.
Came here to say this, but you said it much better than I could have. Good job.
I would be annoyed, if someone calls me again and again asking the same questions, take it or leave it.
Most of mine are purchased as used rifles. Worked 5 years in a gun shop in Europe. Have a C&R, and mainly work with a few reputable large dealers. My preferred firearms are military surplus or fixer uppers, and not been disappointed with any of them.
I think that makes a big difference: I love C&R fixer-uppers as well, I don't really go into it with high expectations, and I"m rarely disappointed.
This poor fellow had a sort of dream gun he was looking for, for many years, and finally got it, paying the premium for it, only to find out it wasn't what he was hoping for - buyer's remorse seems to be far more likely to come with those higher expectations!
On the other hand, you're probably far more likely to find a real gem that way, too - I'm fond of my C&R stuff and always get my money's worth in fun from it, but can't really consider any of it to be the stuff that dreams are made of.
And on the gripping hand, you're also more likely to find those pristine "safe queens" that you've invested too much into to ever fire it or otherwise expose it to the real world, and it's that much more frustrating when Bubba has been all over that safe queen first, leaving her as high-maintenance damaged goods you can never really bring yourself to touch for a variety of mostly unfortunate reasons....
I think that, for my money, the lower-budget stuff is good enough without all the hassle, but when the dream gun lives up to expectations, I bet it's really something, so more power to those who like that end of the market!
OK if the headspace was actually one eighth short then someone has set the barrel back about two threads. it is inconceivable that whoever did this didn't finish the job by doing the chamber work. If this is what happened the person who did the smithing had the ability to do the hard part so why didn't he finish the job after doing the "hard part". This may explain why the barrel was full length glass bedded because the rear sight bulge would have required some adjustment to the barrel channel and this would have been hidden by a glass bed job. if the throat is worn as badly as Ron says this may be the reason for turning the barrel back, chasing the lands, so to speak.
My thoughts, exactly. I suspect someone was trying to make a 300 win mag out of a 300 H&H by setting the barrel back seeing as the parent cartridge for the 300 Win Mag is the 300 H&H cartridge.
I'm no pro, but I think Kruger is spot on in his assessment. Over the year's I've been took a couple of times. As of recent I came to own a rifle with rough machine work on the bolt face. Rings from milling enough to not imprint Hornady brass or noticeable at a glance, but Lapua brass shows it.
Just something I haven't ran into over the year's.
Very good thought, but does not explain the deformation/separation at the neck, which is virtually unheard of. Also there is the gap or ring Ron saw with the borescope. I know it's a longshot, but I really wonder if this rifle does not have a sleeved chamber. Maybe a loose sleeve shifted back and became rusted in that position.
I jumped in here to write the exact same thing. Kruger nailed it in my opinion. I would probably buy a quality synthetic stock for it.
“There is a sucker born every minute…..and 2 to take him” ( PT Barnim)
I bought a Winchester model 52 from a local gun shop because I was super excited and didn’t realize the stock had been cut down. I’m 6’3” and when I got to the range I suddenly realized what I’d done. It turns out the previous owner was a 5’2” petite woman. I learned to always check the length of pull. Thank God I found a 5’3” guy who wanted that gun for the length of pull.
Lol
Why not just put a new larger recoil pad on it?
@@WayStedYou I needed a good 3” and a fellow shooter wanted the gun so I took the Unertl target scope off it and got all my money back plus a nice scope. I was happy and he was happy. I own a number of .22 target rifles so not a big deal.
How did you not check the pull before getting clear out to the range? Just leave the chamber open before bringing it to your shoulder.
@@TonyM1961 like I said in my original comment, I was really excited to find a Winchester model 52 target rifle with a vintage target scope. I immediately told the shop owner to put my name on it and I began making payments. When I took it to the range was the 1st time I actually shouldered it. It was a lesson to always check the guns I’m buying closely without getting too excited.
Oh yeah. I would love to see this issue solved and to see y’all shoot it. Great content as always, Ron!
What a great, likable gentleman. He could write a short story with this experience. Wish you the best, Sir!
Ron Spomer? He has, many!
Those are old school humans. The ones that knew what gender they were.
Sorry to hear of these problems. Steve is definitely a gentleman for the way he is handling this problem.
Pro Tip: Make no modifications to a firearm until you’ve gone to the range and fired a few rounds through it, just to make sure it works. Don’t put on new sights, new scope, don’t modify the stock, trigger.
I’m surprised he modified the stock before test-firing it. I would not put a new sound system in a used car before taking it for a test drive and making sure the engine, transmission, power train, and wheels all at least function. Nor put new tuners, frets, bridge, or repair the body on a used electric guitar before at least playing it for a few minutes to confirm the pickups work, signal gets all the way to the amp, and the neck isn’t warped (or broken).
Best of luck to Steve as he works on what is now a project rifle.
Good lord. I am in awe of this man's deductive skills, but I would have told him never mind after 2 or 3 questions. I don't have all day to be cross examined, I'm just trying to clean out my closet.
I traded into a 4" S&W 629 .44mag and discovered the original owner tried scamming me. The internals looked like someone tried doing an action job with a bastard file and the hammer pivot pin was sheared off the frame!
I called the guy I traded with and tried talking to him about it. He tried playing it off so I just asked him if he was happy with what I sent him and he excitedly said "yes"! I told him I'm not happy with the POS he sent me. He finally agreed that I send it back to S&W and he would pay for the repairs. It all worked out in the end, but not the way he originally wanted it to.
Alaska 1976. Purchased 4" S&W 29 from a transient. Seller had shot near proof handloads and the gun was compromised (as I discovered soon after purchase). From that time on the only used firearm I will purchase is from an individual or shop known to me.
I used to work for a very talented gunsmith. One day a guy came in with a used rifle he bought. It was a 300 Win Mag on the barrel. It would not chamber a round. The gunsmith started to ream the chamber just a little at a time until the round would chamber. It turned out that the rifle was chambered for 308 Norma Magnum. This round is just a bit shorter than the 300 Win Mag. It appeared that the barrel had been set back and rechambered.
If the round will not chamber, it is probably best to make a chamber cast first before any work.
With handloads, I always tune the bullet to the chamber. Then make a few dummies for testing function. I have sometimes found that the dies I have will not work for a particular chamber.
Back in the day, there were many Wildcatters that would make custom calibers for you, even dies. It is possible one of these guys got a hold of the older rifle somewhere down the line.
Great video. It would be interesting to learn the real history of that rifle. The glass bedding would hide the shortening of the barrel, which is why they probably did it.
Not that I actually sell my guns, but if I did, there is no way I would give any real guarantee. Even if the gun is in excellent condition, one of Bubbas hot reloads could damage it. They could swap out broken parts on their own rifle and say it doesn’t work. I buy on gunbroker often and practically no seller has a guarantee that survives the first trigger pull and many won’t even admit to the function of the rifle at all. That being said, I would know the condition before it was sold, so I would be pretty suspicious if they told me it was broken. Obviously, this guy doesn’t appear to be the type that would do that, but there are many that will.
The only used rifles I've ever bought are military surplus & all bought knowing they were a pig in a poke.
I guess being left handed limits choice but anything I ever looked at was 'not as described' in the advert/website, so all four of my bolt actions have been new from the manufacturer(in my case one CZ & three Schultz & Larsen)
I've not been disappointed.
One thing I have found in my 70 years on this rock (60 years of which as a shooter). "NEVER BUY USED"!!! Plain and simple...
I would never go back to that gunsmith.
wow 😮
I’ve been extremely lucky with buying used firearms.
I have a 30-30 lever action rifle that looks like new but is well over 30 years old, I believe it was a gun safe Queen.
I have a cheap tactical 12 gauge pump shotgun but has been a great tool for training and home defense.
I bought one of my favorite 45acp pistols used for a great price and it has been a beast, it’s never given me a pause to mistrust it, perfect reliability, no matter what type or style of ammunition I have used.
One of my favorite concealed carry pistols has been a perfect example of reliability and I got it used.
Yeah I've got one that's similar but it's a Winchester 1200 30-in vent rib it's only had maybe 60 shells run through it with three chokes
We're frequently going on the honesty and good faith of our fellow man. Treat everyone as you wish you were treated. Good fortune to all.
Been collecting 60+ years and buying used is what I do! Almost never buy new! It’s just like buying a used car! You have to know what to look for or your just taking a roll of the dice! It takes years to know all the things to look for and even then you can get ripped off. There is some super good buys out there and some really pieces of junk! Live and learn takes time and mistakes!
New guns almost always disappoint me. I like the old ones.
I sold several rifles in my time and in order to put a buyer at ease I would do as many photos as possible of various parts. For Savage 99 rifles, I would remove the stock and took a photo of internal parts so the potential buyer wouldn't have to guess. Once I even did a short video of Husqvarna rifle I was selling, talked about things I would like to know when buying one for myself and I sent it to the buyer. Never any problems with anybody and a lot of happy buyers who got exactly what they were paying for. I am surprised how some people expect to sell the product with only one grainy photo and a short description "shoots great". I know not everybody is a good salesman but as a buyer I would ask the seller to make a short presentation of the rifle he is selling and send it to me. Everybody has a smartphone these days so this is not a problem. If the seller is not willing to spend 5 minutes on this he is not going to be getting my hard earned cash.
You have class
@@bobl2833 Thank you. It is much easier to spend extra 5-10 minutes on presentation then hours on justification, returns, refunds etc.etc.
On my 03-A3 Springfield, there is a safe way to "feed-check" reloads. When you close the bolt, there is a button that is depressed, permitting the bolt to go into battery. With the bolt withdrawn, press this button and unscrew the firing pin assembly and withdraw it from the bolt. Without the firing pin, you can safely cycle all the cartridges from the magazine to the chamber and then eject each cartridge.
If you can remove the firing pin from the Model 70, this is the way to safely "function-check" your reloads at home.
Great video! Looking forward to the follow up piece on this one. I didn’t realize how blessed I’ve been with buying old rifles.
I really enjoyed this one Ron. I admire your friend and his positive attitude as well. I've been buying and trading firearms for 45 years and have only been burned a couple of times but it does sting. I hope everything works out for the gentleman and hope to see a video of that rifle shooting as it should.
Two big thumbs-up. Most of my firearms I buy used. This video hits that nail on the head. The primary lesson: even when dealing with a stand-up seller and asking all the right questions, the result may well not fit your expectations.
One takeaway from this experience, it's a hell of a story to tell, once its straightened out.
I have bought many used guns from a local pawnbroker who has 3 shops in the area. Most of them have been handguns, but I have bought several new & used rifles from them too and I haven't had a lemon yet, although I have bought wind instruments from them that needed lots of work. Apparently, they know guns better than horns.
A great interview with Ron.and Steve, who both only wants to help fellow shooters... Excellent work and am looking forward to Part 2
I bougth a 22-250 used.
An overbore caliber that may be a gamble to buy with a history. But it looked brand new. And as always the seller informed me that the previous owner had not fired many shoots with it. Well words are cheap i figured.
But then i saw the stock was firmly making contact with the barrel on the left side for about 4 inches. That would explain why the last owner wasnt happy with the rifle, and it might be fixable.
And i was going to get a new stock anyway.
New stock with free floated barrel , lapua brass v-max bullets.
All my reloads shot excellent.
Details matter when you buy used rifles.
😂😂 I remember that full length bedding craze. All the magazines had articles showing you how to do it. They made it sound like you weren't a serious shooter if you didn't do it. 😂😂😂
"You pays your money and you takes your chances" an uncle used to say. Buying a used gun, or a used car for that matter is always a crap shoot.
Sometimes you get a good buy, and sometimes you get a goodbye
The problem with the Pre 64 M-70s in 300 H+H is that so many of them have been buggered up that to find a clean one that is not buggered up. It can be a crap shoot at times. I had the same problem with a 318 WR that I bought in the Mid-1990s I ended up having Lon Paul rebuild the rifle- It happens when you buy sight unseen. As much as I want a 300 H+H myself I am of the opinion that I will just have Parkwest or Griffin and Howe build me one. Yes, I will pay a lot but not have none of the heartache and frustration. Griffin and Howe got one in 300 H+H that is as clean as a rifle from 1958 can be and well Griffin and Howe has a reputation beyond approach. A lot of 300 H+H's have been reammed out to chamber the 300 Weatherby Magnum. Do this stuff long enough and yeah you will get burned. It's just the nature of the hobby. The problem is that far too often people are less than truthful about things. When he said I think I mailed you the wrong gun, that would have been it for me. Just saying. Now I am interested to see how the issue is going to be resolved and then how it shoots. I myself is not tied to sub moa. If it shoots consistent 2 inch groups or a little better with 200 gr Nosler Partitions, I would take it to African in a heartbeat.
I hope all issues are solved in this situation. I used to drag race motorcycles and it’s the same issue there. You get so enamored by a project you lose sight of where all the gremlins are coming from. All hobbies are the same when you rely on equipment to perform a task.
Could the rifle have been previously wildcatted to a .300fbr (fuddbuster) and the specs lost ? You find the same kind of oddball stuff with collector/performance cars also. Sorry for your troubles. Interesting video Sirs.
Whenever I've had headspace issues when buying a used gun it is having to much headspace rather than to little but an eight of an inch to tight is a mile in my book and I can't figure out how that could even be possible, I hope you can bring the old girl back around because its such a beautiful and classic rifle.I have bought many used guns over the years and have had about three that were lemons.
Geat video Ron. Once he gets his problems ironed out he'll have one hell of a nice rifle. Real piece of history
Brown ventilated recoil pad might help the look, and maybe a white line spacer? Not the original look I realise.
Seller sounds like a straight up guy who is keen to do the right thing. Hope Steve gets a good result at the end of all this. 🤞🤞
Look forward to hearing how it goes.
11:30 "when you fall in love with something....... you lose perspective" True for guns and women. It's only later you see the flaws you first ignored or rationalized away.
As several previous posts have brought up get a chamber cast made to measure. I would also check bore diameter with pin gauges if chamber cast was not long enough to measure that deep.
Just a thought, I had a similar experience once with the case cracking . It was a gun that my cousin gave me so I knew the gun was sound. Once I cleared the cracked case I examined the gun and couldn't see anything obvious. I have fired the gun many times since then and it's never happened again. Just saying be safe and have the gun checked out again but it is possible that you had a defective brass.
Rebarrel the dude. 😊 Funny that the chamber was 1/8 inch short. That doesn’t happen by accident. Has the barrel been shortened and retreaded? That would set it back in the stock explaining the glass bedding. It’s a shooter so rebarrel, rechamber and restock it. Make it like Jack O’Connor would do it.
I have been lucky buying online, every gun I bought was a work in progress and I knew they needed work! One High Standard Supermatic I got was from a guy that liked to shoot but he knew nothing about the mechanics or how they function I got it cheap because he said it was broken, he said he fired it once and it didn't cycle. When I got it a casing was stuck in the chamber and it was filthy, I used a cleaning rod to drive out the case then cleaned and oiled it and now it is flawless and worth at least 4 times what I paid for it!
i wouldn't sell this dude nothing
I definitely want to see the resolution to this problem.
The best place to start is buy from your local shop, but the biggest thing is even before that build a good relationship with them. Find out what they handle and how they do things. Then you can look at the gun with them, in many cases they should have their gunsmith look at a gun first before throwing it on the shelf, and one thing is they often know the guys who sold the gun to them and how the gun was handled and how well it was cared for. You might find some diamonds in the rough, but I can sure tell you there are a lot of risk factors in involved when you buy from a private seller and sometimes no amount of research can help you.
One of the good things about dealing with your local shop is that those guys live down the street from you, they go to church with you, their kids go to school with your kids, they might even be related to you: it's no guarantee that they'll be good at their job and care about upholding a good reputation with you and the others in their community, but their success would, in a perfect world, depend on protecting their reputation by doing the job right and giving the customers their money's worth.
Once I bought a 7mm Mauser. I knew it wasn’t “pristine “ but it keyholed bullets at 50 yards. I bought it cheap and sold it cheap telling the buyer it’s problems. I bought from an auction a Savage 99. I just can’t seem to get it to where it feels and shoots good. A project. I have bought several from a website or two and had great luck. Thanks for this vide.
Nice thick recoil pad ... I like!
I bought a 375 JDJ Contender carbine, (Super 16") with a [Dmned] brake.. Fired 3 shots.
The first shot told me everything I needed to know. Second shot was just to confirm the unbelievable experience. 3rd shot was just because punishment from the first 2 were ... un-freakin'-be-liev-able. Whacked $50 off my purchase price, wrote up the experience for the next guy, and sold it to a fellow as happy as I had been ... or more so ... and he sailed off in happy pursuit of the Rocky Mountain Elk.
Wow , I would be fairly disgusted by now and throwing my hands up! Well Steve said it , he OBVIOUSLY LOVES model 70 Winchesters! Thoroughly turns me off to buying used online! Great video , anxious to see how this plays out. 👍👍👍
It's like a harley make it your own
Great story. My sympathies Steve and hope the story has happy ended. I recently bought a rifle online and sight on seen. The transaction went flawless. The rifle was fantastic and a bargain. But I was super nervous.
9/8/23 300 H&H
I agree with Phil's commet 85% powder capacity is needed.
I hunted and loaded for the 300 H&H for over 30 years.
In hand loading always check your first round to see if it chambers in a new rifle to you.
SAMI spec is fine on paper BUT a chamber cast is a must.
Thanks for a good show
Caleb
model 70 , my first and favorite deer rifle . Bolt action teaches a young hunter to wait for his shot and shoot acuratley .
Sixty years still used every season .
Excellent episode, thank you! Looking forward to follow-ups.
I have a precision rifle in .308. Got it used as a Remington 700 AAC SD... restocked it, put a good trigger in it, new bottom metal, great scope... and it was very accurate, but the brass had a hard time extracting. The brass wasn't turning at all, and it was a hard pull to get it out. Not natural. The brass itself has a line gauged down it, lengthwise, from the shoulder to about 4/5 down to the base. I had apartment at the time, not a garage... so I got an electric drill, and very fine sand paper, and polished the inside of the chamber with some oil until it was smooth, I kept looking at the chamber every few turns and finally stopped when I couldn't see the line any more.. Then I went to shoot it, to see how much the new brass would be larger than the old brass... Turns out it was not noticeable. The rifle was even more accurate, and the brass extracted effortlessly with a good seal around the case neck after each shot. I didn't know if I would have to re-barrel it or not, so I was pleasantly surprised.
Your statement that you lived in an apartment at the time brought a chuckle from me. When my girlfriend moved in, I had a 10" vice bolted to my desk in the living room with numerous tools and parts everywhere, needless to say it clashed with her new home furnishings,
Ah, my college days! I lived in Married Housing with my new wife and had C clamped RCBS reloader, remounted to our kitchen table. When threw out of the kitchen, I bolted to the top shelf of a heavy book case, which after long use tore a 'monster chomp' section out of it! We kept that book case for several years with my wife putting a doily over it. We had a good laugh when we trashed it years later.
Pleasantly surprised how much I enjoyed this format 😃 Great interview, great information.
Thank You Gentlemen, It's a Great subject and will say from my experience to date, I have had several dozens of purchases over the years ,G.B. and the people who list there have Never let me down! I have even sent my own firearm to someone and they sent me what I traded for after he saw and approved my Trade. For me a Trustworthy Auction sight but Always do diligent investigation!
I am dating myself here. I bought a surplus K98 Mauser through the mail from Spiegel (before the 1968 act). It shots MOA with the right ammo. Recently bought a browning 30-06 from an FFL in Kansas. Actually looks better than the pictures. Came with Leupold base and Saturn muzzle brake. Had to move the action rods. Functions well and is accurate
What powder was used for the reloads? Some powders have a warning not to reduce more than 10% from recommended maximum load, reducing more than 10% could cause excessive pressure. Don't know if this is possible in this case or issues with the rifle.
True the Model 70 was the grail back in the day.
I'd refuse to sell to a guy that tried to do what is being proposed in this video every time. Not because I'm trying to scam somebody, but because you know he's going to find something to cry about and he'll want his money back after the agreed upon inspection period. Don't fall in love, be objective when you are evaluating the gun, and if you made a mistake you've got to own it like a big boy.
Could you image a guy wanting to close the bolt on a gun . Just imagine 😅
Wow I am intrigued cannot wait to see the end results. God bless and stay safe
For headspace and chambering issues like I had in an old Remington 788 in 22-250, I took it back to Remington, I live about an hour away from llion, they checked it out and set the barrel back and rechambered it. Shot like a house afire. Averaged about 1/2 moa with most loads, select hand loads 3/8 moa.
Perhaps this rifle needs the same. This process will help fix the throat area and sharpen the rifling just ahead of the throat. All things that can help accuracy.
I primarily buy used rifles, while I check everything as much as I can I take each one if them to gunsmith when I first get them. Check headspace, throat, and overall bore condition. Also important is to look for stress cracks in the wood and metal. Usually higher end rifles are generally fired a lot less than your standard model 70s, 700s and so on.
I ask the same questions every time:
Any damage not noted or visible in the photos provided?
Are there any mechanical issues that you're aware of?
Does it chamber and fire a round as it should?
Lastly - please take a picture of (pick your random object - I ask for a coin - and specify heads or tails up) beside the rifle.
And make sure there's an inspection period prior to purchase!
The very first step I take when looking at any used gun is a visual inspection. Is the bore clean and unobstructed? Is there any obvious damage? Next is a functionality check. Do the trigger and safety work properly? Can I feed and eject a dummy cartridge?
I'm glad this gentleman's seller made things right but if he'd done a quick five minute inspection before doing any repair/refinishing he could have avoided the stress.
Crocodile Dundee looking through the bore scope was amusing. less than 0.5 MOA @100 yards? Priceless. Barrel throat erosion? It’s a thing Croc.
I bought a 1903 that was sporterised at a auction that looked nice but the barrel was so full of fouling it would not shoot well. I spent weeks cleaning it and finally got it clean. Then it would not hit the broad side of a barn. I traded it at a gun show for a 1963 model 700 new in box.
Crikey! That's the best episode I've seen. Brings up a lot of issues I had not thought of. I'm mostly a shotgunner, but I do have a 1950ish Savage 99 I bought used that was drilled for a scope at some point (those older guns were not drilled at the factory). Unfortunately, the holes were drilled out of alignment. Oops. Other wise a nice rifle, but not really sure how you could mount a scope unless there is a base for the 99 that has windage adjustment, like the Redfield mount on my M70.
Just cover them up by having a competent gunsmith use a Weaver side-mount base, that may even be able to not only cover it up perfectly, but also work off of at least 1 or 2 of the holes that have already been made, while bad one(s) stay out of sight as if they weren’t done, and now you have an extremely accurate, and convenient, *PERIOD CORRECT* setup. Once that base have been installed properly, all you need is the Weaver brand, side mount attachment and you can use both scope and iron sights, as these guns were intended!! Good luck!
PS: If you need any help finding or researching the exact part, I might have one. Let me know if you would like to go that route and I’ll go through my “Vintage/Collectable” scope gear and see if I have that particular one, and I’ll mail it to you!!
Love the story and love the chambering. 300 h&h is a favorite for sure. Looking forward to your follow up video.
Back in the day, I knew a fellow who would commit to a purchase, then have a friend call back in 2 days to see if the seller was holding it for anybody. If it was "still unsold," the seller was looking for more than one buyer (and more than one check) I would have to call back to cancel the sale.
Reminds me of buying my 50 cal. muzzle loader at a Scheels. I took it to the range and even though it was good for 150 grains of powder, I only used 60. The problem came when I put the cap on to fire and it didn't go off. It turned out the nipple was full of little wires, I assume from trying to clean it, the only other thing it could be is someone did it on purpose to give someone trouble. Oh I should mention that before I loaded it I fired two caps with no powder before I loaded the rifle.
Been there- actually traded that rifle off and told my pal exactly what the issue was with grouping. He was happy and I was but it just shows that you should never judge a book by its cover. It can look like a centerfold and shoot like a dog...and vice versa.
One more story. I bought a 6.5-06 barrel for a Remington 700 one time. The person that ordered it backed out and lost their deposit. I paid the balance and was happy. It turns out that the reamer may not have been within A Square saami specs. It was supposed to have been. I installed it with Go-NoGo gauges. The first shot with a low charge blew the primer out of the case. I wasn't very happy. lol It took me a long time to work up loads for this rifle using 25-06 brass. It now shoots great, but it doesn't have much space before I hit rifling. It shoots 123gr SST bullets well. I may get a reamer from PTG and fix it someday.
Hey, Ron! Another excellent episode! It's obvious Steve was VERY thorough in trying to vet the rifle prior to purchase. Nevertheless, he ended up with a "project" gun ... it happens. With a 70-year old-firearm, provenance is often hard to trace, as in finding the true one-owner firearm. Then, there are so many nuanced semantics involved when buying online ... like people who misuse the phrase "mint condition." Then there are the flavors of stock defects, like "ding," "nick," and "scratch." Another is "minor wear." "Accuracy" is yet another -- like the seller telling Steve he killed everything he pointed the rifle at -- i.e., MOD = minute of deer. I think one of the best pieces of advice from Steve was his caution about falling in love with the gun -- as in, objectivity goes out the window. GUILTY!
He can cast the chamber and measure all the dimensions and concentricity’s.
Was he using new brass?
Its best ot use factory loads in problem rifles in the beginning to eliminate a variable.
Belted and rimmed cases are a pain to reload, they cant be reloaded as many times bc of the stretch.
So some ppl neck size only but then its a one ammo one gun situation.
I must have been fortunate for the most part, I did buy some garbage but surprisingly not very much when I consider between my surplus and used most of my guns were second hand,looking forward to see you shoot it
I bought a new Browning BL22 which turned out to be a lemon. Problem with light strikes and sometimes feeding
The gunsmith should have cleaned the barrel thoroughly before shooting. He could have caused major problems. Oil can diesel and ruin the chamber. Also he could have left shaving in the barrel that also caused problems with the chamber as well. This could have been the total problem for it not opening, after firing the gun. To bad your having such a problem with this gun , as model 70 Winchester's are some of the best rifles ever built. Good luck!
Load for a friend??, not that I never have but my attorney friend warned me that if anything happens especially if it was paid for or a barter you are liable and likely still liable if a gift or favor. I shot some 45acp reloads rapid fire through a 1911 Colt and packed a rd behind a squib load and swelled the barrel. Lucky that’s all that happened. Reloads were from my gunsmith buddy! He’s been reloading for 50+ yrs. I’ll leave it at that as I reload also and on a number of occasions after loading for a few hrs I’ve malfunctioned and made a mistake. It’s been many years without a shooting consequence as I have several checks and balances and find any brain farts before they make it to the box. I would encourage anyone who cares to listen, do it for yourself for all the benefits custom reloading brings and leave it at that.
We had a R1 (FN .308) in the army that the cases stuck in the rifle and you could not open tthe bolt. We could not figure it out. The army gunsmith found the problem. A small ring of the front of a case neck broke off somehow and got stuck in front of the rifeling in the neck of the chamber. So if you put a new round in it cannot chamber properly and blows the case out of proporsion. He took it out and the gun ran just fine.
Great story, isn't it the way it sometimes goes, sorry the buyer had to go through all that.
I'll pass on used guns. I did buy two and had issues with both. The one I kept was a JC Higgins 12 GA bolt action with a bottom load/tube magazine. The stock split, which I was able to repair and then refinished the stock at the same time. The shell lift arm also broke but it was easily brazed back into working order. I gave it to my brother who dropped two whitetail bucks with it and had it re-blued. It's a really sharp gun.
Dude, I would never sell that guy a gun. Fricken full on interrogation. I'd have quit responding to him VERY early on. Lord
Your choice .
I prefer older guns I can fully inspect and shoot first. Some brands that’s a must. I won’t name names.
I have been getting pistols at auctions. I have found that every purchase is a crap shoot. Most of the problems I have had are with damaged springs. In one case the spring was good except it was the wrong spring. Right now I have a pistol that I cannot disassemble. I know how it is supposed to come apart; I just can't get it apart. The one thing I have learned to do is to be sure that I have a source of parts before acquiring the gun.
Looking at SAAMI drawings, and spitballing a bit, I wonder if it hadn’t originally been in 300 win mag, and then if the smith reamed it to 300 weatherby? H&H will fit the wby chamber but the wby shoulders are 20 thou farther forwards. And if the smith mangled the job…
If you going to “refinish” the stock, it was the perfect gun to get. An actual Gunsmith would determine in a $50 - $100 inspection / checkover headspace feed function, safe condition, test fire with factory ammo. Unless this rifle was scammed with a non-professional screwing on a take-off barrel ( very unlikely), this rifle was as perfect as it was the day it left the factory. You bought a $500 cut stock, glass bedded M70 . What’s the big deal? Your handloads caused the bolt not closing and your hack tinkerer lied and said it was headspace and then he damaged the chamber.
Are you 12 years old ?
Sounds like most listings on Gunbroker, except they never answer any of your questions.
Need a follow video on this, like to see it shot eventually
Because of things like this, I never buy any firearm without having it in hand. The joy of buying a firearm is the hunt, and the joy of driving home with it after I find that special gun. I'm retired and hunt for guns and hard to find accessories three to five days per week. Just ten days ago I found two High Standard 22lr pistols, "The Victor" and a Supermatic Trophy, a S&W model 41 plus a tan and black Taurus G3 from a pawn shop. I only paid $105.00 plus tax for the G3. You just need to hit the road and do the foot work, it's also a lot of fun.
My 300 H&H is made on an Eddystone 1917 Enfield, same with my 35 Whelen Akley imp. My only 30/06 also an Eddystone 1917, rockwell hardness to brittle to rebarrel.
The first thing I do before anything else is clean and test fire, used or new. Then go from there.
I’m convinced! I will never buy a used gun. What a headache after all that work and it still doesn’t work, you probably could buy a new gun.
All of the magnums,other than Weatherby,are designed off of the .375H&H.
All are the same chamber size,they are all just necked down to accept whichever caliber of the bbl.
The 7mm STW is based off of the 8mm Remington Magnum.
.300 Win mag.,.264 Win mag,7mm Rem. mag.
All of the WSM’s are based off of the .400 Jefferys.
I just bought a Mauser 93 Oviedo in 7x57 sporterized in the good ol' days.
Loaded up some light rounds last dunday and went shooting.
Getting about an 8 inch group at 50 yds, not very good but they're all on the target.
Hope its telling me that load development is the answer.
The rifle had so much character that i couldnt pass it up.
Also bought a 1903 Springfield 30-06 sporter and its a tack driver. Paid 355.00 total for the 7x57, and 286.00 for the 1903.
Win some and you lose some!
Listening to this story one thought hit me like a bus. Ron used a barrel scope and looked in the barrel. How could this 1953 rifle have normal wear and tear if the buyer claims that they gun could not have been shot? The 2 ideas do not mesh. I do not know the problem, but this has me intrigued.
When Ron bore scoped the gun and started calling off issues the buyer wanted to flip backwards
Bought a couple of used guns that haven't worked out for various reasons, but only one lemon - a BLR in .243. Gun locked up after the second round nearly every time. Sold it to a friend who thought he could fix it.
Great show Ron!
I did a buy once from a Pawn Shop and didn't check it out first. That was a huge mistake, because it was a Chines Military SKS. I never notice the Sn's didn't match till I took it apart to do a cleaning on it and couldn't put it back together. Not only that, the Chinese had bowed the Barrels of their old rifles, and it could not shoot straight. It was becoming a night mare. I had fitted the parts back into place, but that didn't fix the barrel. I still have that rifle, and it just sits there as a reminder to me.