After seeing a lot of people accuse Anakin Skywalker of being a Mary Sue, I decided it was time to get to the bottom of this, and resolve this debate once and for all.
The people who call Anakin a Mary Sue are dumb as rocks, TBH. A Mary Sue is someone who easily overcomes any adversity and is liked by everyone without reason. Rey fits this description perfectly, while Anakin does NOT. - Anakin is selfish and very arrogant - Rey is selfless and humble. - Anakin makes most people he meets uncomfortable or uneasy, Including Padme, the jedi council and even his future master, Obi-Wan - Whenever Rey meets someone, she is their best friend within 2 minutes. - Anakin talks about his inner darkness, ends up slaughtering an entire village of people, a temple of jedi and children, diplomats and thousands of innocents - Rey talks about her inner darkness and ends up killing her evil, emo boyfriend. - Anakin, the chosen one, stronger than anyone else with the force, faces off against a sith lord after 10 years of jedi training and loses both the battle and his arm - Rey, an untrained girl, faces off against a sith lord the day after learning that jedi are real and defeats him. - Anakin falls to the dark side of the force - Rey resists it without much/any effort. - Anakin is unable to save his mother, while also being the indirect cause of his own wife's death - Whenever someone close to rey dies, they are resurrected by her plot-armor. - Anakin fails to kill Palpatine - Rey kills Palpatine. These 2 aren't even in the same solar system.
Anakin: looses his arms, legs, skin, hair, mom, wife, friend, mentor and freedom Rey defenders: MARY SUE!!!! Rey: looses nothing Rey defenders: If you call her a Mary Sue you’re a sexist
13:48 Actually, the subtext of this scene is Anakin describing his childhood. He dislikes sand because it reminds him that he was a slave to Watto on a desert planet. Had he been surrounded by snow or fire or forest, he would've hated those instead, because the point is that, unlike the pain of his childhood slavery, Naboo is peaceful and soft and smooth, the exact opposite of Tatooine.
Keep in mind too, that anakin was about 18 or 19 when he married Padmé; and was an emotionally stunted and repressed boy who was suddenly given alone time with the woman he was crushing on since even before puberty.(Which is kind of gross now that I say it out loud.)Of course he was going to be awkward and wooden.
That incident with the Sand People is probably the closest Anakin got to being a Mary Sue, as Padme just dismisses his slaughter as a human flaw, because she likes him so much. You could say that Padme could see the good in him, but I think she was also scared of him and his instability and used her political skill to de-escalate him. That's pretty far from being a Mary Sue!
I would have done it. But since I'm a German born Canadian who lived in Russia for many years and returned to Canada, it would have been snow instead of sand.
@@SAGAtheGRAY he didn't. In ep. 3 he kept his right arm after the fight with obiwan. His right arm was already cybernetic due to loosing it to count dooku in ep. 2
Hi how are ya : l Lol, what a paradoxical statement. My taste in movies is only shit to you because of your differing opinions. Learn how opinions work, kiddo.
Calling Anakin a Mary Sue only started after people ridiculed Rey for being a textbook Mary Sue. It was done mostly by Rey fans just to defend themselves and now it's just their coping mechanism.
What's funny is that the many people made the same rebuttals that the drinker made in this video. The op of the twitter post eventually just commented. "Lol. I triggered so many people. Man babies." Something condescending like that instead of addressing any of the arguments made against his statement.
Let me get this straight, Anakin, one of the greatest force users ever, loses a lot of his abilities and never reaches the pinnacle of being a Sith lord nor a Jedi master. Loses his hand, his legs, becomes disfigured, and has 100% of body burned. Anakin loses everyone he loves, including his wife, all the while, trying to save those he loves the most. How... in... the... hell... is Anakin Skywalker... a Mary Sue?
Palpatine designed Vader life support system to be shit and his suit to be bad for combat, it was meant to keep him down just enough that if they got into a fight Palpatine would have the advantage.
@@imo098765 I like the explanation for how awkward he fought in the original movies and how it didn't line up with the super acrobatic fight style in the prequels.
She frowned cause she saw her script was terrible and it was so bad she couldn't even shed a tear, it surpassed into complete mental shutdown and she blanked out.
well there is alternative ending of "Star wars episode 3 game" where Anakin kill Obiwan on his high ground and Palpatine. but still would not counted as Mary Sue.
@@FlorianFlorian573 yes like i said he wouldn't be counted as Mary Sue as no one actually like him in the movie...the Council of Jedi caution with him being "the chosen one", Sith want to Manipulate him. the one who love him is Padme Mary Sue is a character that loved by everyone and even Villain would give the character an Easy time in a fight in a stupid way for the Main character to win.
In the novelization of Episode III, Anakin needed to be a Jedi Master to access a piece of the Jedi library. He thought the key to saving Padme was in that section. So not only did the Council personally insult him, but they also denied him a chance to save his wife.
@@geg_otmopo3 Ask the Jedi Master on the council for help with the wife he was ABSOLUTELY NOT supposed to have? Don't forget, he did go to Yoda for advice and all he got was silly New Age Buddhism about "letting go."
@@PhilosophicallyAmerican Yes, Obi-Wan is dogmatic as hell but nearly not as much as Yoda. Also he and Anakin in ROTS were MUCH closer than just a master and a padawan, basically brothers. Pretty sure Obi-Wan wouldn't snitch on Anakin and he probably already knew about him and Padme.
@@geg_otmopo3 Fair points, but at the same time I understand why Anakin would not wish to take that chance. Additionally, Kenobi is not much more powerful than Anakin in Episode 3.
Anakin: Gets his hand cut off and later loses pretty much all his limbs while being turned into a burnt chicken nugget. People: "Ah yes, definitely a Mary Sue."
Anakin literally lost a limb, his mom, and eventually his wife. All being consequences for his mistakes. The dude’s whole story is how he became Darth Vader. Anakin is full of character development. Rey is nothing but corporate corruption.
And then lost all 3 of his other limbs and set on fire by lava and forced to live the rest of his life in a cumbersome, restrictive, and extremely uncomfortable suit he needs to stay alive
@@cidiose how is luke a mary sue? he wouldve died in anh if han didnt come back and shot vaders tie fighter, in esb he walks into a trap on bespin and gets his hand cut off, and in rotj wouldve died if vader didnt kill palpatine lol. how td is he a mary sue? hes also not liked by everyone, in anh the bar alien starts a fight with him, jabba laughs at him when he says hes a jedi. in esb yoda doesnt like him much either.
Not even close. He got rejected by the council. He’s training literally started because the council was sad qui gon Jin died. He was shown as immature, and arrogant. He was bested by count dooku fairly easily in attack of the clones. He was fairly easily manipulated by palpatine. He fell from grace to become Darth Vader and was by no means perfect. He was a tragic character which made him so likable. Rey literally found lightsaber and boom, most powerful Jedi ever.
What makes Anakin’s story even more tragic is that his personality actually got better during the clone wars. He goes from being an impatient padawan with a bad attitude, to a Jedi knight who has a better attitude and a little more patience. Plus he was a good master to Ashoka. He even showed restraint in the original 2003 cartoon that came out. As a Jedi Knight I mean. I’m not saying he was perfect but still he did show good character development. Still all of that character development was dumped into the lava because Anakin let his fears get the best of him. I will admit though the Jedi council(including Obi-Wan) was a bit critical on Anakin at times. So there was fault on both sides.
The Jedi Councel has done a lot to make Anakin as fucked up as he was. Yoda telling Anakin to let go of his emotions is not a valid response to someone who is grieving the losses of the ones he cares about like his mother, it isn't a healthy way to cope. Also remember in the Clone Wars where Obi Wan AND the Jedi Councel decided to gaslight Anakin into believing his master died? What about the time the Jedi Councel decided Ahsoka had to be put on trial for a crime she didn't commit, that led to her leaving the Jedi order aswell as leaving Anakin. Then the Jedi Councel denied Anakin the rank of master, because they were too scared of him. Sheeve Palpatine has always shown Anakin kindness and acceptance, which is why Anakin chose him over Mace Windu. The truth of the matter is. The Jedi Order where so corrupt and blind from politics that they allowed Sheeve to manipulate Anakin into joining his side.
@@ronantheronin3521 yeah very true. Only thing I disagree with you on is the whole master thing. I think Anakin needs to wait a little bit longer before he becomes a master. He’s a great warrior but there are some things he needs to learn before becoming a master. Even though he matured during the clone wars, he still lets his emotions take control of him. I would say make him a master around his late 20s or exactly 30.
@@Steel-101 I took the offer of the seat on the council but not a rank of Master to be a test of Anakin's pride and patience. He was denied the rank of Master, and he got visibly frustrated and vocally critical in the moment. The response they were likely hoping for was something along the lines of "If you do not think me ready for the rank of Master, then I should not have a seat on the Council". But the fact that the title and rank of Master wasn't granted to him being what set him off likely communicated to the Council that he was still too impatient to be considered a Master.
@@ronantheronin3521I think you're fundamentally misunderstanding the relationship the council had with Anakin. The council acting officially can't afford to play. They once said Anakin was dangerous, and they were absolutely right. Look how much damage he did because he got too attached to the wrong person. It s not Padme's fault, but Anakin's attachment to her meant the genocide of thousands of people, and later on millions. This is a direct result of Anakin never developing the qualities of an actual jedi. He could act like one, but he didn't have the mental and emotional grounding. This would have been okay if he acknowledged that and stopped putting himself in positions where that internal maturity was *necessary*, but this man was in charge of thousands of lives and acting like a teenager sneaking around. If you don't see what I mean, ask yourself, would Obi-Wan have fallen for the same trap? No. Obi-Wan proves himself capable of self-reflection, self-control, forethought, humility, etc. These are the qualities Anakin learns to imitate but not apply on his own. Would ahsoka have fallen for it? No. We all know she wouldn't have. Because Ahsoka is a jedi. Why does he get mad when told he'll be on the council but not a master? Everything we see tells us other jedi see it as an honor, but a duty and a responsibility. He evidently only sees the honor part. And he's too immature to understand that giving him the rank of Master would be ridiculous. They're not persecuting him by not promoting him. Being a jedi master at 25 would be absolutely laughable. He s way too young. And by his reaction, he proves right then and there that he's not qualified. An actual jedi, even if they were mad or embarrassed, would reason with themselves that expecting a promotion they haven't earned is arrogance and self-absorption. Anakins problems are exacerbated by Sidious's grooming. But that doesn't change the fact that he shares the responsibility because he never actually applies the lessons of the Jedi order. He wants the power, the prestige, to be somebody. But he's not willing to do the work and he has very little humility. If being a jedi was so intolerable, he could have left. Every Canon in star wars makes it clear the Jedi are not chained to the temple. If he felt unsupported, unloved, belittled, he could have left at any time and become and ordinary citizen. The Jedi order would not have pursued him unless he started doing dark side nonsense. He didn't do that because he *wanted* to be important. Why should he, who is so powerful and special, act like a random everyday nobody? I mean, he could have gone back and rescued his mother, you know gotten her off of tatooine, but no that wouldn't do. There are lots of people to blame for Anakin turning out the way he did, mostly himself and Palpatine. But if the Jedi were to blame for anything, it's not being hard *enough* on him.
@@rachelclark6393 While I agree with most of what you said, I disagree with the "not being hard enough on him" line. They said Anakin was dangerous from an early age and treated him as such throughout his formative years. Maybe had they actually been kind to him at some point, he would have been more accepting of their training. When you permanently keep somebody at arm's length, you can't be surprised if they eventually end the relationship.
A mary sue is someone who is seen as too perfect and almost boring for lack of flaws. That doesint line up with Vadar at all. Vadar fucked up so bad that he got the love of his life killed and became number one to the most evil man in the galaxy.
@Twisted Yoda I said he was number one to the most evil man. That evil man is the Emperor. I didn't say anything wrong but i could have phrased it better. What would be more accurate would be to say he became the puppet to the most evil man in the galaxy.
@@billfred9411 Second two most evil man in the galaxy as Darth Vader had that tiny amount of light and goodness still bruning inside of him that both Padmé and Luke saw.
@@danielolsson7134 Geez i guess im old and am using out dated lingo you guys dont understand. Being someones number one means you are his right hand man. I was saying Vader is number one to the most evil man. That evil man is the emperor.
@Oliver Higgins That's because Anakin is actually her dad. Sheev Palpatine is Rey's Grandfather and therefore Rey is a Palpatine, not a fucking Skywalker. You're not just part of someone's legacy just because you say you are.
Worst is that she is written by somebody who probably never tried to watch Ep. I-VI for any other reason than stilling some ideas (but without understanding lore0 or I dunno. Visit wookiepedia. My "fan" thing in SW is reading on internet about stuff that wonderedd me, playing few games and watching movies. I would probably write better Ep. VII-IX drunk. As joke.
@@keniel-prime6214 I recall writing something about Anakin in the movies not being well-written, yes, but I don't think it was in this specific thread. Here, I was mocking Rey's absurd powers by making a comparison to the hulk in the avengers movie. You know, that "I am always angry" bs?
The original Obi-Wan was the chosen one. He brought balance to the Force, when he defeated Vader on Mustafar (Lava World, Revenge of the Sith, I don’t count Disney Star Wars as Canon) and Anakin was the “false messiah” as you put it, but, in my opinion, he (as with most messiahs) had a series of critical moments that turn him from a herald of an uplifting exhalation, and becomes a dark destroyer (or, ‘fiery-accuser) to punish society’s (the Emperor) ills.
@@brockdavid After the events of Mustafar, Darth Sidious was still about. I'm pretty sure even if Anakin didn't turn, order 66 would have happened (although less effective, obviously)
Rey never even trained, she never had to. From the start she was using Jedi mind tricks without even knowing what the force really is (Luke was not able to do this till episode 3 after many years of training). She was besting Kylo in a light saber duel and besting him easily without having used a light saber before. Her character is ridiculous, and the last Jedi was one big cringe fest. Terrible movies. When I first saw the force awakens I though it had potential, now looking back the signs of the new trilogy being a big steaming pile of dog crap were there. I was simply eager to see a new star wars trilogy with my kids. They didn't like them either, but they do like the Lucas Star Wars the real Star Wars.
"I've only seen this kind of raw power once before?" "Your father?" "Nah, the Chosen One is a loser" "Your sister?" "Never finished her training" "Obi-Wan" "Not him either"
hell rey didn't even train. They forced in some training spots in rise but thats cause people pointed out how the hell is she so powerful with zero training.
@@Slavic_Boer and according to Poe, Rey took his title of "best pilot" and of _course_ she's the best fighter in the "resistance" Gosh golly, isn't Rey just the bestest! She can do everything! Such great, very wow!
@@Slavic_Boer who is Anthony Ingruber? Na, Disney needed someone famous, someone with "star power." they needed that other guy, good ol' what's his name to draw on the crowds. You know the guy, I think was in that other thing?
The point is not the truth behind the statement. It's a trick to get you to refute or defend at length a completely irrelevant point, and forget the whole point of the argument. Watch Bill Hicks' take on post modernism for a good summary.
They don't watch them, as sales borne out. The louder the SJW, the more likely that they've never heard of jack shit about the actual subject they're trying to cancel you over. Freudian Hypocrisy 101.
"Anakin is a Mary Sue!!1!!" His entire story is a blood-soaked tragedy that leaves him a crippled husk on life-support and everyone he knows either dies or wants him dead. Totally comparable to Rei whose only moment of tragedy is when she only got "one-quarter portion" from her blob-dad. Makes sense.
@@debussy9373 I guess that's not entirely inaccurate, but he's really less a character and more an avatar for the player. Not really what you should be basing your movie character development on
The story of Mary Sue from a mythological perspective is essentially the absence of struggle and adversity. Anakin’s story, at least if you limit it to the prequels, is a literal tragedy. He sacrifices everything and gets nothing in return, and the worst part is that it could all have been avoided. Sure, Anakin was more gifted than any other but he was equally cocky and arrogant which was the cause of his ultimate fall from grace.
Anakin: *Trains* = Loses a hand, gets his ass kicked. Luke: *Trains* = Loses a hand, gets his ass kicked. Rey: *Doesn't train* = Beats the shit out of the antagonist Edit: If into the replies you will go, only pain you will find.
Also.... Anakin: Doesn’t train, is 9 years old and has no experience with piloting = Perfectly pilots a Naboo starship and destroys the Droid Control Ship. Luke: Doesn’t train and has only piloted a space tractor = Is able to pilot an X-Wing better than all the Rebel pilots and can use the Force to make a 1/1000000 shot - WITHOUT a targeting computer. Rey : Trains for 2 years and with ancient Jedi texts = Gets the shit beaten out of her by Kylo, tries to exile herself, gets force life drained by Palpatine and literally dies of exhaustion.
@@ReySkywalker2 Only AFTER beating the crap out of Kylo Ren 1-2 movies prior. And killing Snoke's bodyguards. With the actual end of the fight is Rey leaving him alone in the middle of the ocean. And Luke was established to be a good pilot and marksman in ANH. His ship is also a similar model to the T-65 X-Wing. Anakin, is literally Force Jesus. His reflexes are beyond any human, this allows him to react and maneuver better than ordinary pilots.
@@ReySkywalker2 Also: Rey with no training: *Learns force techniques perfectly without practice, defeating a Dark Side user (A FRIGGING SKYWALKER) the first day she held a lightsaber*
Our One True Emperor clearly you didn’t click on the video to watch it. Her setbacks are merely fleeting moments that leave no lasting mark to her character, therefore she doesn’t develop.
Anakin: a literal chosen one figure in the force, was trained for over a decade, lost to Count Dooku in their first duel, lost his arm, his mother, betrayed the Jedi, betrayed his friends, almost killed Padme in a fit of rage, lost another arm and his legs after being defeated by his former teacher, and spent the next two decades under the guidance of emperor Palpatine, until he sacrificed himself when he threw Palapatine off a platform into an active engine, seemingly killing him instantly. Rey Palpatine: is able to best trained forces users with no training, also defeated several royal guards along side Kylo Ren with at most a days worth of training, was able to use force lightning and mind manipulation with no exposure to prior abilities, and finally defeated Sheev Palpatine in the dumbest way you can imagine, ultimately robbing that victory from Anakin, and just to add insult to injury, even buries his and Leia’s lightsaber in the place he hated growing up in and stole his last name.
This is actually why i love the prequels so much. It’s basically one movie split into 3 chapters. It may not be everyone’s cup of tea but you can’t deny the great character development and overarching story
All Anakin was was the chosen one, one gifted in the Force. That is literally it. If he was never trained, he wouldn't know how to use the Force. Rey literally overpowers anyone without any training.
Exactly, she even used the fuckin Jedi mind trick without prior training. When I saw that in the theaters I was like "how the fuck did you know how to do that? Or rather how did you even know what the fuck that was in general"? She also moved things with the force and defeated kylo ren. And the next movie is all about her training how to use the force and fight and I'm like: FOR WHAT????
Fuck, even Anakin being the Chosen One had to go through years of training and was still beaten by less powerful but more skilled/experienced opponents. Note very Mary Sue-like
@@leenaleewitch3731 If anakin would've been left on tatoinne he would still be working as a slave of watto and would be the best pod racer that ever was . That's it , he couldn't even begin to win pod racing before Qui gon told him how to channel his potential and only then did he win .
We are expected to sympathize with Anakin and see him as the good man described by Ben Kenobi even after he butchers women and children. I definitely wouldn't say Anakin is a Gary Stu, but he's still terribly written in many ways.
@@SolarDragon007 good point. Tho i like to think obi wan was just avoiding the truth and lying to luke to motivate him to get vader since he couldn't do it himself.
@@dylang1138 I never really saw him as a good man in the Prequels. He was arrogant and constantly butted heads with Obi-Wan in AOTC and then murdered women/children. By the time we finally get a more heroic Anakin at the beginning of ROTS, I don't care about him anymore because he's already crossed the moral event horizon.
@@SolarDragon007 That's true, actually. Guess the intended story worked a bit better in theory. The Clone Wars does make a bit more sense out of it though.
Even at the end of episode III… when he actually gets into the suit… THE FIRST THING HE SAYS is “Where is Padmé? Is she safe? Is she alright?” And it is at this moment you actually see that he was nothing more than a weapon… and that the Emperor didn’t even grant him his wish of saving Padmé… just used him.
At that moment? Isn't that obvious through the whole thing? He was being used, the take out the Jedi and because Palpatine wanted a new acolyte and he was very powerful. What better victory than to turn their great hope against them and use him to destroy them. Although what annoys me is how did they not see it coming? They knew from the start it was risky to train him, he had too much baggage. And then they just ignore all the warning signs and all security are just like "well i guess we will just have to hope he wins in his personal struggle with the Dark Side, because it would sure suck if this powerful new Acolyte we are training and who shows resentment, an inability to conquer his emotions and fears,an inability to take orders from anyone, pride and ambition, turned to the Dark Side and then attacked us from within, right? Although to be fair since they somehow didn't know about Palpatine either, they didn't know that he was being actually trained in the Dark Side. Maybe a pupil who is just sliding over the line is usually easier to save and pull back, they don't usually go directly to murdering all the children.
Anakin failed as a Jedi and fell for the dark side and had to be saved by his son, so no. And let's not forget that he has weaknesses, especially sand.
Yea but didn't you know Rey failed to beat kylo in a single fight in the 3rd movie after beating him multiple times in the first 2 movies in both combat and Jedi tricks without any training what so ever. So clearly she must not be a Mary Sue.
The typical definition is "character who is depicted as unrealistically lacking in flaws or weaknesses." The whole character of Anakin is nothing but weaknesses and flaws.
@@cocodojo No it was just a misconstrued prophecy (that no one ever talked about until Anakin came into the picture). Its more like- "He will bring balance to the force, but you don't wanna go down that road." But then he did. c'est la vie
Anakins personality was shaped by his childhood. He loved his mother who protected him as a slave and quickly went from a slave to a Palawan and was told he was special. Any kid would grow an ego and become overconfident, rash, temperamental which we see as a constant pattern of behavior through the trilogy which makes SENSE. Now with Rey she was abandoned by her parents and had to learn to salvage. JJ tried to show off her salvage skills and whatnot but it was literally a small bit, Rey should have also been reluctant to accept her force sensitivity and have a hard time connecting with people. She should have been distrustful of everyone and not accept any help from anyone due to the pain of being abandoned as a child and feeling that if she were to trust anyone she'd be hurt. Could have had Rey steal the Falcon and run away when they met Han. She should have been someone damaged just like Anakin who had issues with his temper and overconfidence. Rey should have been more introverted, distrustful, skeptical, blunt and sly with half truths to everyone not letting on much about her. People point out Rey's deadpan face but that is what a Mary Sue is. They don't have personalities since they are flawless so they can't be shown as angry people or depressed etc. Rey should have been a very prickly person and hard to deal with but who slowly opens up to Han and Leia. She should have been tempted with Kylo Ren who would try to bond over how it feels to be betrayed and Kylo could have manipulated her to believe to never trust the Jedi as he was betrayed by Luke and Rey believing him and slowly falling for the dark side of the force. We could have had a moment where she and Han develop a bond and at the same time she is bonding with Kylo through the force bond they had or whatever and her switching to the Dark side. But then when she sees Kylo kill Han she'd fall to anger even more and attempt to kill Kylo and lose and be abandoned by Kylo who leaves her for dead after all the promises of making her his apprentice and giving her a place where no one would abandon her and instead she could be the one in charge and the second movie could have been her recovering and Luke perhaps coming back after hearing of Hans death and helping Rey master the force to avenge Hans death out of regret his best friend died because he had abandoned the fight. I'm writing a damn script here but I made this up as I went and pretty much sounds 10x better than Disney's shit not to toot my own horn but honestly even 10 year old me could have wrote something better tbh.
honestly this does sound a lot better, like, genuinely the only thing i'd change is (at least specify) that luke didn't still attempt to kill kylo over a *fucking nightmare* seriously, the sequel trilogy has a lot of flaws, but i will always think that *luke skywalker* attempting to murder his padawan and nephew over a nightmare is easily the worst part.
Your excellency, this is a very realistic plotline which encompasses all traits of the characters involved, what are their worldviews, how they interact with other characters, and the motivation of their actiobs and its consequences, even if it ignores the extended universe series of novels which continue on the story of star wars after the end of Return of the jedi movie. Now, if only the studios had made a similar approach.....
B/c they dont actually know what a Mary Sue is, they just sort of have a vague idea from criticisms of ray, so they incorrectly tried to apply it to Anakin.
@@pete3011 That's exactly what it is. They only note that Rey is "strong" and then somehow equate her to Anakin cuz he was strong too -- ignoring every other characteristic of a Mary Sue, and every other characteristic of Anakin. I think anyone who equates the two either hasn't seen the prequels or was too young to remember them.
Wonders if anyone knows that 'Gary Stu' is the male equivalent of a 'Mary Sue'.... Of course Anakin isn't a Mary Sue... Because Mary Sue's are women...
@@SardonicJosh Yet he still took years of training. And he had flaws. Like mental weaknesses. Or not much forsight. Also *hm*, his hand got chopped off, so he wasn't OP from the start.
@bodd boward to be real, it was said that Anakin never won a pod race before then, despite various attempts. He probably learned a lot from those failures and definitely took in a lot of junk his boss was throwing out. . As for building droids, fixing things is literally his job, so it makes sense that he can do it. . As for his success in the space battle, he literally just blindly stumbled into that victory like the child equivalent of Jar Jar Binks
@bodd boward was it implied that during the race it was first time Anakin riding a pod? He's a powerful force sensitive and probably trained how to ride that thing. And it's not like he built robot from scratch, he probably just assembled it from different working parts he found, not a hard task considering he was working at mechanic shop. So yeah, I call bullshit on at least two of 3 accusations.
InfernosReaper Agreed. If you’ll indulge me for a minute: In the Star Wars Phantom Menace novelization (which came out months before the movie), Anikin’s force abilities were pretty passive. He was attuned toward mechanical things that he had fixed, and he had heightened perception. You’re right, he hadn’t won a pod race up to that point. As a slave he pretty much put Watto’s junk back together so that Watto could sell it. He had the force, but the main things he did come about through training and he was helped by Watto’s repair droids.
the fact that people actually hold this take is genuinely hilarious considering we see Anakin lose fights multiple times and is very clearly and obviously flawed to the point that he literally becomes a villain
@@splitsong7368 That's a good point, because I was thinking about the way these sequel fanatics act.... They have a lot in common with Anakin, especially young stupid AOTC Anakin.
"Is Anakin a Mary Sue?" Anakin: *Can't Even Be a Chosen One Correctly and Fails at Fulfilling His Own Prophecy After Crippling Himself Mentally and Physically* Sequel Fans: "Ya'll hear sum?"
Anakin did fulfill his prophecy it just took 6 movies to tell the whole story. He brought balance to the force by killing all the jedi and the sith. It's a wicked story George Lucas is a genius.
@@shrekzebee4435 Yeah to me star wars is the story of the chosen one Anakin Skywalker and that story was told by the first 6 episodes already. Why make more ? Obviously i know why but to me the story of star wars is done they should have made some individual stories not "continue" the already finished story.
You shouldn't phrase it like that. You make it sounds like all fan fictions are bad. I've read fan fictions that are better than the sequel trilogies that someone got paid to write. For clarification I've only watched episode 7, that was a boring and frustrating movie to watch.
It seems like there were good stories in the prequels for those looking for them and with a bit of generosity for all the awful dialogue. The sequels you can just tell they didn't have a story to tell
Watch the video "George Lucas - King of Wooden Dialogue", it might add to your perspective on the dialogue a bit. I've personally never had an issue with the dialogue, but maybe that's because I watch the two trilogies as a sort of modern cultural mythology, rather than a story that's grounded in our world in every way except the sci-fi stuff. I know it's Apples and Oranges, but they're all still fruit: I also never had a problem with the seemingly odd dialogue in stories like Gilgamesh, the various Shakesperian plays, Brave New World, A Clockwork Orange, Eraserhead, Twin Peaks, and probably others that aren't coming to me yet. I think the merit of dialogue delivery is relative to the tone you're going for in whatever medium you're telling a story within, and the overall way the setting/world in said story operates.
"I know it's apples and oranges, but it's all still fruit" I'm gonna remember this next time some penishead says "Um like you literally can't compare (x) to (y) because (superficial different between x and y)
@@gogetac2r You mean that person who was in a cameo in episode 8, but not doing anything useful over some quibble or something and only could be bothered to give very vague clues to the identity of a codebreaker, which ended up causing more problems than it resolved?
Yep. In the Disney sequels, we can't show women ever needing to learn anything, especially from a straight white man (yuk!!), so instead, it's Rey who winds up teaching Luke Skywalker a thing or two.
"I was browsing twitter looking for calm, logical, rational discussion about the merits of the sequel trilogy" Ah I see you're only interested in the exceptionally rare.
Literal prophesied hero demigod in the prime of his life with 10 years of training in the best conditions possible...gets brutalized and mutilated by an 80 year old wizard in a sword fight.
I was about to say, and like...you said it for me. Anakin not only has bad shit happen to him, and not only is a lot of it his own fault, but his flaws cause BILLIONS and then some to suffer!
Anakin: - lost all four limbs - lost a duel to a sith lord and his former master -put into a suit that is constantly torturing him to keep him angry and quite powerful -grew up a slave -actually trained to become powerful -lost his mother. Rey No-Skywalking Palpatine: -Was just bored.
Don't forget the fact that Anakin had 10 years of training inbetween the first and second movie, and then three years of constant warfare inbetween the second and third. Meanwhile Rey was a master after 1 day of doing nothing
Not to mention: He had a Padawan and learned, that she was HIS responsibility. She was like a little sister to him and she adapted many feats of him and even some flaws (sometimes impatient, not thinking everything to the end). And when it came to Ashoka, he never let anyone do harm to her. I still can remember two incidents, where everyone said, that he should let her go and it is hopeless, to find her. But he didn't gave up, because he loved her (as friend, little sister and padawan)
@@Anthyrion I didn't mention Ahsoka for the sake of keeping It just with the movies, as bringing in third part material would force me to Include stupid programmable lightsaber and force skills from Kylo when talking about Rey, which I refuse to do
@@voicingdragoon7 Yeah, the idea of downloading knowledge from others kind of pokes a massive hole in things. If you can download ability, what's the point in training?
That’s where the Kathleen Kennedy films miss the mark. The Force is supposed to be extremely difficult to master even for those strong with it. It’s not Harry Potter magic, but that’s how Rey fans explain her instant mastery of skills she never knew existed: “She’s a prodigy.”
Anakin in his third movie: *burning alive with no arms or legs yelling at his own mentor and closest thing he had left to family* Rey in her third movie: _Defeats literally all the Sith/Palpatine in one lightning beam struggle & takes the Skywalker name because there are no Skywalkers left to stop her_
"struggle" On a side note did you notice how in ROTS both Anakin and Mace are shielding their eyes from Palpatines lightning yet in ROS rey looks directly into it, do you reckon that's rey being more of a mary sue or just the writers forgetting the lightning is supposed to be bright?
@@madkoala2130 yeah clone wars saved him from being a Mary sue in a classic sense but i still would say he is supposed to be in the story as a critic of the chosen one trope
@@therealmrmago9077 I'd almost say he's a perfect definition of an anti-Mary Sue in the prequels, with the exclusion of the one time he blew up the droid command ship. His every choice outside of that doomed himself and the Jedi, either in the short, or long term. Heck, I'd argue lore wise he should be a Mary Sue, given his position as the Chosen One, but he manages to be the exact opposite, which is hilarious when you consider that they gave Rey what amounts to a "You are the chosen one who can do everything you want" treatment, but they were unwilling to follow through. I didn't much like Last Jedi personally, but had they ran with the idea that Rey was essentially the new Chosen One, specifically born to stop the new wave of Dark Side users, I'd be cool with that. But instead, they made her what amounts to Palpatine's Niece (no one can make me think of her as his grandchild because unlike Boba Fett, you can't convince me Palpatine tried to raise his failed clone).
This got me thinking, what would it take for Anakin to be Mary Sue? * Anakin is established to NOT be a podracing pilot. He is taught the controls to the podracer immediately prior to the race, as Obi-Wan can't race due to an injury right before the race. He wins the race, handily. * Anakin does NOT crash land inside the droid command ship and accidentally torpedo the main reactor. He attacks from a perfect location that no other Naboo pilots thought to use. * When he has his nightmare of Shmi in pain, he immediately leaves in the middle of the night. He uses his force sensitivity to land his ship right outside the Tusken village, walks up and demands they give him back his mother. He admonishes them for their bad behavior and forces them to take on a better merchant lifestyle. Shmi is brought back to Naboo where Padme helps her get the medical attention she needs. Anakin goes Geonosis, saves Obi-Wan, blows up the droid factory, and captures Dooku. Padme falls deeply in love with him for everything he has done, and says she wants to marry him, even if it is a secret. * When Padme reveals she is pregnant, Anakin does NOT keep it a secret. He tells the council and says that he has no choice but to leave the order, for the sake of his wife and child. They immediately grant him rank of master and tell him he is on the council, and that the order must change to accommodate him. * His nightmares about Padme's death are different. He realizes, with the help of his mother, that the visions are false and implanted. He discusses this plot to infect his mind with the council, who all stand in awe as he reveals that it is Palpatine. Palpatine is arrested, but in the process kills many Jedi, Anakin bests him easily and takes him in to custody. The Republic does not become a galactic empire, Luke and Leia are raised by two loving parents. The end. (I am probably missing many things, but this is a general overview)
Very good! But you should play up the "every good person he meets is inexplicably attentive and respectful of and attracted to him"-angle more. This includes the "every evil character he meets secretly / reluctantly admires him"-aspect. This could even extend to Palps having second thoughts about establishing a Galactic Empire / destroying the Jedi Order because Anikin is "just so likeable."
Lol right. People don't have good arguments to defend the sequels other than calling everyone a "hater" or saying something dumb. I don't hate the sequels like most people do but they are still pretty bad.
Anakin lost his hand, his mother, his old life, lost faith in the jedi, lost faith in his mentors, lost faith in the republic. Lost his son, his daughter , his apprentice, all of his friends, half of the 501st. Then he lost his legs and other arm to his father figure and mentor and was left to burn alive. Anakin is nothing but a walking tragedy, his power and skill makes him an outsider. His compassion his greatest weakness. A mary sue? No, I think not.
@@zack0207 hes both. growing up he was his father figure. There's literal dialogue of him saying this in the attack of the clones while they were chasing the bounty hunter. I dont remember the exact lines but goes like A: "your the closest thing I have to a father" O: "then why don't you listen to me"
@@zack0207 Obi-Wan saw Anakin as a brother. To Anakin however, Obi-Wan was a father. The whole thing is basically two brothers, one an adult and one a child, who lose their father and become orphans. Thus, the older brother steps up and takes their father's place, raising his little brother as best he can.
Ashoka had a sense of humor, flaws (ie being insubordinate, prone to error, ect), and most importantly: GREAT WRITING!!! It’s the reason why Clone Wars Anikain is such a chad in comparison to the movies.
I think the issue is that Rey never really failed at anything. It’s always nice to see your protagonist fail at something because it makes the plot more interesting. Anakin loses all his friends, all his limbs, and he literally falls to the dark side. He’s failed on just about every level. Luke also fails in the Empire Strikes Back. Luke is like Anakin. He’s very hot headed and he runs face first into danger too often. And so when he goes BY HIMSELF to face Vader, he gets his arm cut off and thrown down a garbage chute. He also almost dies in Return of the Jedi. If Darth Vader wouldn’t have saved Luke, he would’ve been killed by the Emperor. I can’t tell you a single moment off the top of my head where Rey gets defeated, or is tempted to join the dark side. That’s what makes her a boring character, not cause she’s good at a lot of stuff
Failing also makes the characters more relatable. We see their struggles, we relate to them, and we get to see how they learn from their mistakes and climb out of it and leaves an audience inspired. This is what Disney failed to do with Rey. She had no struggle so she had no relatability.
Yeah, she beat Snoke 's ass without getting tossed around like a ragdoll, and Ren without Leia's help and she also beat Luke in a stick fight without having to cheat with a lightsaber. She wasn't killed by Palpatine. She got things so easy. Sure.
I like how part of his character is that he cares to much for the ones he loves and would do anything to protect even if it means to kill others for them. It shows his flaw in how he is to easily controlled by his emotions and that his arrogance is his downfall. He also had to work hard to become a Jedi and has many years of experience.
@@sethmalcolm6955 you know who Darth Plagueis is right you know who his Apprentice is right what is Darth Plagueis one standout feature you can make people survive the only reason why he killed all those Jedi was because they thought he was a Jedi but didn't realize that he turned
"Anakin Skywalker is a Mary Sue!" Yeah, the guy who gives in to all his worst instincts and becomes one of the most famous and ruthless villains of all time is a Mary Sue. Sure.
Mary Sues are liked by everyone around them for no reason. Darth Vader is liked by everyone around him because they like being alive. Basically the same thing, right?
I don't recall seeing Jar-Jar's execution. Head on a spike, floppy-eared noose, crushed, burned, shot, drowned, impaled, lightsaber sushi, whatever. And that seems like a flaw to me.
@@pwnmeisterage Jar Jar was intended to be comic relief, but he was too over the top. Lucas wisely muted his wackiness and appearances. You know? Accepting fan criticism without calling us -phobes and -ists.
Oh yeah. There were some great ideas in there, but they were hampered by George Lucas not being good at writing dialogue and his tendency to get bogged down at points. If someone competent had come in to help clean things up, those movies could've been masterpieces
I don't think The Phantom Menace plot was a good idea, you had a never before seen Republic and powerful Jedi Order but the movie was wasted on Naboo and Gungans. The other 2 were flawed in execution rather than concept, definitely agree
Anakin isn’t a flawless person, obviously, but I’m gonna list the negative traits I’ve noticed. He’s possessive, arrogant, hot-headed, impulsive, and too trusting towards people who are obviously manipulating him. All these negative traits usually end up with him paying for it. In Phantom Menace, we don’t really see his flaws because he’s still a little kid and the movie mainly focused on Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon. However, in the second and third movies, we see his flaws as plainly as a neon sign. He paid for his arrogance and hot-headedness by losing his hand in the second movie. Then, we see him pay for becoming evil by being burned in Mustafar and left to die. The sycophants clearly never watched the movies before. If they did, they would know Anakin’s story.
The funny thing is that if Rey was treated like Anakin, her character would have been redeemed. They could have introduced the "heir to Palpatine" twist early and it would have fulfilled Rian's obsession with subverting expectations. All of her friends would have treated her with mistrust like a ticking timebomb. Maybe she could have started getting cocky with the ease at which she was picking up her force abilities. Maybe Luke could have said he fled to the island because he sensed something that reminded him of the emperor's power and needed isolation to prepare for their final meeting, when all of a sudden his heir showed up on his island asking for training and it scares the hell out of him. Maybe she saves Finn by sneaking up on Phasma, stabbing her through from behind and beheading her. And when Finn locks eyes with her he sees a sort of twisted joy in her eyes that goes beyond just being happy to see an old friend. Maybe rey and kylo team up to kill Snoke, but afterwards its Rey's idea to join forces and rule together, but Kylo fears her power and rejects her.He allows her safe passage from the ship, but tells her to never return. And the movie ends with Luke siding with the heroes, Kylo with the first order, and Rey as a rogue agent distrusted by both sides... maybe a force weilding bounty hunter. Expectations totally subverted without going full simp and without destroying the entire franchise.
I'd have honestly gone with Rey seizes power and boots Kylo out, which would super subvert expectations and give us a very interesting story. It also could give us a reason for the throne room fight to take place, instead of just being a "there for the sake of having a fight" scene.
Wow, in five short paragraphs you’ve taken a massive stride toward fixing the sequels. I would definitely watch that trilogy. Edit: I would add that it might be even better to have Rey seize control of the flagship in TLJ after Kylo rejects her. She then dumps Kylo on a random planet and uses the flagship to hunt down the remnants of the first order. Then in TROS, Palpy stays dead and we kick it off with Rey having been successful in crushing the FO remnants but she’s become ruthless. Make the focus of the film Ben’s redemption and have him hook up with the Alliance to try and bring Rey back to the light.
Another thing about the "we don't grant you the rank of a Master" scene is that it's not only about Anakin's arrogance, but his desperation to save Padme. He thought that he could find relevant information in the Jedi archives that was only accessible to a Master, so that scene must've felt like almost getting a chance to save his lover until it was once again arbitrarily, in his mind, taken from him. This would obviously push him even more towards Palpatine who was claiming he could help Anakin with this matter.
I can't comprehend how can someone say that Anakin is a Mary Sue. I mean, I saw it bunch of times from people who defend sequels, but Jesus. He has failed on every step of his journey, helped tyrant rise to power, indirectly killed love of his life, made his children suffer because of his actions. It's almost like he is opposite of Mary Sue.
Exactly. He's a "born Mary Sue" who actually encounters reality, which systematically demolishes his hopes and dreams precisely because he chooses to attack it with a misguided sense of entitlement born of his prodigal abilities. A real Mary Sue does this without encountering any push-back against their arrogance, and this is where the crucial difference lies. If the entire universe lays down and surrenders all logic and independence of its other characters to serve the infallibility of its main character, then it is a cheap, trashy failure of a story - which is the hallmark of a "Mary Sue" fanfiction.
@@chasm671 not even born a mary sue he was a slave and literally beaten by watto also love how the 3 sequels dont dare go into anything as dark as the older movies (like child slavery actually decent relationships or any amputation) because they want to make it for kids lmfao
Think of this for a minute. According to what Anakin said in the prequels, from the time he was 3 years old, he spent his entire life calling someone 'Master.' Whether it was Watto, Obi-Wan, or the Emperor. And Vader died at the age of 46 (if memory serves). Imagine from 3-46 you had to literally call someone 'Master.' Literally until the day you died. I don't think any Mary Sue ever had to endure that.
You can add another name to that list. Anakin and Shme were sold/lost to Watto from Jabba the Hutt So even though Luke spent more time on Tattooine, He's the only Skywalker to not be a slave to the Hutts
This actually made me appreciate Anakin a lot more than I ever had. I was never a fan of the prequels but, wow, I hadn't really given enough thought to his arc. And the more reviews I watch, the more it's cemented that quitting an hour into this first sequel Disney put out was the absolute right choice.
Remember when Qui Gon said: "Anakin, training to become a Jedi is not an easy challenge. And even if you succeed, it's a hard life.". Well not anymore, thanks to Disney
@@drlee2 that's because the prequels didn't show jedi training at all..but in attack of the clones anakin has already undergone 10 years of training...and still gets his ass "hand"ed to him by count dooku
@@drlee2 Difficulty of training was shown in Clone Wars mostly through Ahsoka, but the difficulty of life as a Jedi overall is shown through Anakin’s struggle of balancing his personal, emotional desires with Jedi expectations
Im not defending Rey at all but Kylo won their fight in Rise of Skywalker. Kylo's own mama helped Rey "win" such a stupid fucking movie. Why tf wouldn't all the Jedi help....idk the descendant of the two families that were crucial in defeating the Empire? Skywalker & Solo's?
anyone that says "you aren't ready to have that conversation." is really saying "Im ready to ignore any logical evidence you try to introduce in to the conversation."
A Jedi that doesn't win anywhere near all her fights, but is willing to sacrifice herself to save others, like when she thought off general grievous to save the younglings
The "y'all ain't ready to have that conversation" statement is, quite possibly, the perfect way to signal to everyone that you are a pretentious person.
I think a lot of problems in the world wouldn't exist in the first place if those twits' parents had taken the time to have a long and serious conversation with their spoiled brat of a child including some vigorous spanking.
"I know THE TRUTH but obviously the rest of you peons aren't prepared to hear it." Basically, that's it. I didn't like the prequels and still don't, but Anakin was definitely not a Mary Sue.
It's an insulting and dismissive statement, getting the last word in, declaring the "conversation" is over. It's also immature and cowardly. A valid argument is unassailable and shouldn't be worried about counterarguments - indeed, it should invite "more conversation" so that challengers have opportunity to say things which make their opposing arguments weak and/or which make them appear stupid.
Villains can be Mary Sues too. When that happens they're usually super powerful and tragically misunderstood; it will probably turn out they committed all their most horrible acts because it was necessary to save the world. They reflect the authors feelings of self-pity, entitlement and resentment over other people not being able to see how amazing they are. I think the most important characteristic of a Mary Sue is that they're never humiliated in the eyes of the audience. They might have their low points in the story, they might be abused, hated, thought to have made a mistake by other characters, but we the audience always see how noble, selfless, smart and good the Mary Sue is. And of course right. Mary Sues always turn out to have been right about everything important by the end of the story. Anakin, however, gets humiliated all the time and turns out to have been wrong about everything, and the most embarrassing bit is that he got played by someone else every step of the way. Definitely not a Mary Sue, imo.
Anakin ends up losing everything and everyone he ever cared about due to manipulations outside his control, unlucky circumstances and his poor decision making coming from his relatable, but deeply-flawed character. He's a protagonist of a classic greek tragedy,
Imagine being hated by fans when your original movie came out, then suddenly a decade later you are a beloved character because current ones are hated even more.
Funny enough the fact that he murders kids, chokes his wife when its not consensual and doesn't listen to the safe word, and betrays his best friend makes it likely you would hate him at 1st and not get the point that it was the idea. Anakin became a bad guy they had to show it somehow and make it clear you shouldn't like him. Shame the writing wasn't up to par and filled with sand. Though lines like that just feel so bad they're good these days. The Star Wars Holiday Special shows if they were really bad they'd stay bad and hated at least.
Eh, people have always liked Anakin once they brushed past the horrible dialogue and so-so directing. Especially when the The Clone Wars started showing his emotional side. Man threw hands with some banker over the fear of losing Padme or Padme getting hurt.
Anakin had a well conceived character arc that was let down by the terrible script and appalling directing - the sequels haven't turned him into a beloved character (that's impossible at this point) but appreciation for what was essentially the core overarching story of the prequel trilogy is more widespread and less inflammatory than it used to be.
I always loved Revenge of the Sith. I was neutral toward ep. 1 and 2 but never hated them. It's true what the first guy says. The prequels are being re-evaluated by so many people because the sequel trilogy is such shit. At least something good came from that absolute train wreck.
Drinker, for some reason, the analysis offered in this video has stuck in my mind over time and I've found myself reflecting on some of the points you made. I find that description helps people conceive of and see things that they could not before. Your very apt descriptions gave me new appreciation for the Anakin character and story arc. Just got through watching the video for a second (or third) time. If UA-cam had a "Second Like" button, I'da smashed it.
In Episode I, arguably. He’s introduced as the legendary chosen one, wins races against people who by all accounts should be better than him, and takes out that droidship all alone. However, even here his successes are tempered by the fact that he still doesn’t get everything his way. His mother isn’t freed and the Jedi don’t particularly like or trust him. As for the rest of the films, only a literal idiot would think he’s a mary sue. Literally everything that can go wrong for him goes wrong. He lost duels, lost limbs, lost his mother, lost his wife, got burnt to a crisp and put in eternal life support, thought his kids were dead, discovered they were alive and hated his guts, then finally died - after 20 years of a hellish life, somewhat redeemed. Anakin isn’t a mary sue. He’s the most tragic character in fiction of all time.
Anakin’s best claim to Mary Sue-ness is having more midiclorians than Yoda. Not that the midiclorians were the best idea George ever had... but they do explain the Force in a sci-fi way rather than in a religious way, which is an improvement of sorts.
Also about the podrace, Anakin admitted to Padme before the race that he had never FINISHED a race before, nevermind winning one. So even then it's not really like Rey to where the first time she pilots the Falcon she masters flying it.
@@timonsolus Midichlorians were basically meant to be conduits for the Force. Having more of them simply meant a better sensitivity to the Force. The Whills were intended to be custodians of the Force who can control the Force on a large scale through the midichlorians, effectively operating as the "will" of the Force and are part of the hidden Gods of the Star Wars universe. The whole Chosen One thing coming about because of a threat to the Force. Which was basically Palpatine and Plaugeis trying to take control of the Force themselves, through the midichlorians, to use it for their own purposes which would throw life itself out of balance. Conceptually even in a Lucas Sequel Trilogy Palpatine could have returned... as a Dark Side Force Wraith, sustained solely on hatred and the fear of him by the galactic community. Though Lucas would have had Force Ghost Anakin be brought into a position to truly destroy Force Wraith Palpatine and complete the Chosen One prophecy by eliminating the closest thing to a Sith ascending to become sort of like an Evil God.
I was going to but decided to read the comments to see if someone else already did. Wouldn't wanna dogpile them as it would most likely just end with them ignoring the message.
@@outgoingblur I have tried before and came to the conclusion that there is no point in arguing about anything on Twitter or Reddit. No one ever argues in good faith, it's either a snarky remark completely ignoring the point or a block/downvote or some ad hominem meme picture that basically says you are unattractive, at least in my imagination so your argument is invalid.
Taken as a slave from birth. Doesn’t know dad. Mom dies. Loses love of his life through his own mistakes. Gets cut apart by his only father figure and burned so badly he could no longer speak or breathe on his own. He’s a Mary Sue the way I’m a tragic and brilliant antagonist.
The story of Anakin Skywalker is one if the greatest tragedies ever told. When you pair it with his journey with Ahsoka in Clone Wars it makes him even more relatable.
@@corydawodu. NO, TCW RUIN ANAKIN, HE PASSED FROM A FLAWFUL & RELATABLE GUY TO A GENERIC UNIDEMNSIONAL HERO, JUST FOR MAKE AHSOKA GREATER *LEGENDS & PREQUELS>>>>TCW & DISNEY*
Anakin is a mental wreck, he went trough so many emotional challenges while Rey got everything served on a silver platter and never faced any challenges
Rey is a scavenger girl abandoned by her parents on a desert planet who should be absolutely fucked up mentally, but somehow she's your average millennial who has the personality of a college student on her way to get a latte at Starbucks. One of the things most bothersome about her is the fact that the writers put absolutely ZERO thought into what kind of person she SHOULD be based on her life experiences.
@@radstaz2029 Force pulls her? That’s supposed to be a hardship or trial? Yeah she never gets to see her parents but this barely affects her character in anyway other than positive apparently, as her morality is just unbending and is emotionally unaffected in a way that actually leads to her struggling at any point other than scavenging to get food. As soon as the “silver spoon” lands in her lap, it’s straight shot to the top from there and that’s all as an audience we get to see and removes any real attachment we could had with her. Waahh Grandpa issues, what is she, Boruto’s third cousin?
@@robbieaulia6462 You see, he knew that a technologically enhanced arm would be stronger than his normal arm, so he intentionally lost to Dooku to test his hypothesis. Once he saw it worked, he challenged Obi-Wan and once again lost intentionally so he could get all his limbs replaced. It was all part of his master plan.
Anakin is an example of how good but troubled people can be driven to great violence without the right level of support and with the righ amount of influence from the objectively evil. He's more a cautionary tale against radicalism by ISIS than a Mary Sue
The man literally got his ass handed to him TWICE in the prequels, the first time costing him his hand, the other literally leaving him a crippled, disabled man that had to become a cyborg to survive. You didn't see Rey taking baths in lava or getting a hand severed, did you?
@@KRYMauL And only months because there was a little bit of a time difference between 8 & 9 beyond the like like maybe a week the other 2 movies took place on. Even then, 2 out of 3 of the sequel movies took place over the course of a day or 2 each. The timeline of events in the sequels is really wonky...
"Have you ever heard of the Tragedy of Darth Kathleen?" "No." "I thought not. Not a story Disney would tell you. It was said that Darth Kathleen was so powerful she could use the Force to manipulate the weak-willed SJWs into believing that she was creating a new life for Woe-Men. She was so strong with the Dark Side that she could even keep funds going into a dead project for years after it failed." "She could actually save dying franchises???" "The Dark Side of Hollywood is pathway to abilities that some consider to be... unnatural." "What happened to her?" "She became so powerful the only thing she feared was losing that power. Which eventually, of course, she did. Unfortunately, she destroyed a beloved franchise and alienated almost the entire fanbase before her employer wizened up and terminated her. Its ironic.. she could keep funding a dead franchise but not keep the fans from hating her false morals." "Is it possible to learn this power?" "Not from anyone talented."
Cesar Sosa members of the trade federation were based on politicians he didn’t like, so if the rumours of Lucas coming back in a consultative role might make it possible. Considering how much their shareholders are ‘hurting’, I’d say she hasn’t got much of a future there
I had no idea. I mean, I heard the legends but I never thought they were true.... But it is true. I see it here before me on my screen with my very own eyes. You really can win the internet. You, the one they call Meta Mage, are no mere mortal. You are a God among insects.
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Will u do a video on the boys season 2 trailer
*gary sue
I've always considered Anakin as a well written character, but poorly acted by HC.
This is awesome because todays my Birthday.
Perfect video, drinker.
I feel like Anakin's entire story in the prequels was that he WASN'T the Mary Sue they were hoping he would be
Nice take.
EXACTLY
Anakin! You were supposed to bring peace, security and sand to your new empire!
@@u.v.s.5583 I hate sand.... you know the rest
Disney looks over the earlier films...."This isn't the Mary Sue we're looking for."
"Is Anakin a Mary Sue?"
"No"
*credits*
(Direct and Written by George Lucas)
@@RenataHanusova the best person to direct Star Wars movies
The people who call Anakin a Mary Sue are dumb as rocks, TBH. A Mary Sue is someone who easily overcomes any adversity and is liked by everyone without reason. Rey fits this description perfectly, while Anakin does NOT.
- Anakin is selfish and very arrogant - Rey is selfless and humble.
- Anakin makes most people he meets uncomfortable or uneasy, Including Padme, the jedi council and even his future master, Obi-Wan - Whenever Rey meets someone, she is their best friend within 2 minutes.
- Anakin talks about his inner darkness, ends up slaughtering an entire village of people, a temple of jedi and children, diplomats and thousands of innocents - Rey talks about her inner darkness and ends up killing her evil, emo boyfriend.
- Anakin, the chosen one, stronger than anyone else with the force, faces off against a sith lord after 10 years of jedi training and loses both the battle and his arm - Rey, an untrained girl, faces off against a sith lord the day after learning that jedi are real and defeats him.
- Anakin falls to the dark side of the force - Rey resists it without much/any effort.
- Anakin is unable to save his mother, while also being the indirect cause of his own wife's death - Whenever someone close to rey dies, they are resurrected by her plot-armor.
- Anakin fails to kill Palpatine - Rey kills Palpatine.
These 2 aren't even in the same solar system.
Glorious
Lmao
"I don't like Mary Sues. They're coarse and rough and irritating and they're everywhere. "
Just Some Guy without a Mustache I am having a goal to find every single comment you made lol. Found a good 95 already.
Have you ever heard The tragedy of Rey Palpatine the Mary Sue
Fegelein Herman “I thought not. It’s a sorry Lucasfilm would never tell you,”
More like YOU'RE everywhere.
You just described the Phantom Menace! (Minus Maul and Qui Gon. Don’t touch my handsome men)
Anakin: looses his arms, legs, skin, hair, mom, wife, friend, mentor and freedom
Rey defenders: MARY SUE!!!!
Rey: looses nothing
Rey defenders: If you call her a Mary Sue you’re a sexist
Nobody even challenged Rey. Meanwhile Anakin get roasted well by his enemies.
@@michealmalloy1934 And his friends
@@michealmalloy1934 Quite literally in ROTS
I love how you name his body parts first.
your godam right
Everything goes right for the Mary Sue. Nothing goes right for Anakin Skywalker. The comparison is absurd on the face of it.
Actualy no , there is no doubt for a moment that Anakin will fail. Its still bad writing.....
so basically Anakin is the Joker
Anakin is badly written on many levels, but being a Gary Stu isn't one of them.
It's simply put to hubris: Anakin falls from grace out of hubris and desperation. Rey has no hubris (because she's basically "perfect")
You seem lost, carl
Being dismembered and set on fire doesn’t sound like a Mary Sue.
But it could lead to a delicious Gary Stew
@@robertdouth8979 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂
@@robertdouth8979 Bro that's too good 😂
Right?!
They're only a Mary Sue, after that, if they miraculously recover by the next day.
Anakin: Thinks he's invincible, reality differs
Mary Rei: Is invincible, doesn't even notice
Anakin: Loses a hand, then later becomes a quadriplegic piece of smokey bacon.
Rey: Still got all her original parts.
shes even surprised by how good she is. like when she moves all them rocks in TLJ
Marey SUUUUUUUUUEEEEEEEEE
TPM Anakin is pretty much a Mary Sue, everything he does turns to success, it might not be on the same level as Rei but its still there.
@@decay79 sure as heck wouldn't wish that success on anyone
13:48 Actually, the subtext of this scene is Anakin describing his childhood. He dislikes sand because it reminds him that he was a slave to Watto on a desert planet. Had he been surrounded by snow or fire or forest, he would've hated those instead, because the point is that, unlike the pain of his childhood slavery, Naboo is peaceful and soft and smooth, the exact opposite of Tatooine.
Keep in mind too, that anakin was about 18 or 19 when he married Padmé; and was an emotionally stunted and repressed boy who was suddenly given alone time with the woman he was crushing on since even before puberty.(Which is kind of gross now that I say it out loud.)Of course he was going to be awkward and wooden.
No the sub text here is that this is the worse chat up line ever, sand is rough, but you, you Padme you are smooth.
@@JuliePartridge-zf2pw Some of the writing in the prequel trilogy wasn't the best, but I personally think that the hate is a little overblown.
@@Wolffman109 Its all personal opinion in the end and I honestly believe the dialogue was dreadful.
@@JuliePartridge-zf2pw Some was, yeah, but at the same time, I love it.
Them: Anakin is a Mary Sue” Anakin at the end of episode 3: *loses his wife, children, limbs, friends, and brother all at once*
@@elmascapo6588 and proceeds to make bad decisions and kill innocent people through these 20 years. Definitely sounds like Mary Sue
@@s4mu1l_ssg64 and then imprisons his daughter, chop off his son’s arm, and carbonate-freeze his future son-in-law
And his hair
@@TheMamaluigi300 oh yeah haha
He does get his new best friend, The Senate though...
Anakin commits genocide twice and he's still a more liked character than Rey "Skywalker" Plapatine.
Do not call that pretender a Skywalker!
She is a Palpatine!
@@randomjoe3941 did you not notice the palpantine in quotations?
That incident with the Sand People is probably the closest Anakin got to being a Mary Sue, as Padme just dismisses his slaughter as a human flaw, because she likes him so much. You could say that Padme could see the good in him, but I think she was also scared of him and his instability and used her political skill to de-escalate him. That's pretty far from being a Mary Sue!
@@Dressyone223 You were misuing sneer qutoes in your original post and should've written Rey "Skywalker" Palpatine instead if that was your intention
@@ThePlayer920 fixed it.
There are two things that never get old:
1. Anakin Jedi temple jokes
2. Younglings
The latter being, because Anakin killed them all.
You forgot sand.
I actually understood that Ani treated everyome equally. He killed everyone, even kids and women, in same brutality
@@thecircleoft.e.d2121 that’s the joke Drax....
I snorted at that... well played
to be fair, "I don't like sand" scene is plausible imo. I can see myself look like awkward shmuck in front of Padme
I don't get why people talk so much shit about that scene. He's from a planet of sand... It makes sense.
@@klh768 a planet of sand where he and his family were slaves at that
And to be fair, he was a slave at the age of 3 and I’m pretty sure no Jedi would know how to flirt.
I would have done it. But since I'm a German born Canadian who lived in Russia for many years and returned to Canada, it would have been snow instead of sand.
sand bad and i did your mom
Anakin lost his mom, wife, children, friends, and all of his limbs. Rey lost nothing but time.
Krennic losses more time than Rey
@@Ivan_Berni and his life
@@Ivan_Berni literally everyone else in that series loses more things than Rey. It'd be funny if it weren't so pathetic
That's not true I'm pretty sure he kept one of his arms, but then again it's been a while since I've seen revenge of the sith
@@SAGAtheGRAY he didn't. In ep. 3 he kept his right arm after the fight with obiwan. His right arm was already cybernetic due to loosing it to count dooku in ep. 2
"The fandom's been divided between those who like the sequel trilogy and those who like good movies." Couldn't have said it better 😂
Nah, the Sequels are great movies. Keep being toxic 🤡
@@ReySkywalker2 keep sucking on those toes
@@ReySkywalker2 u clearly have sh*t taste in movies I bet u loved watching movies like Charlie's Angels
Hi how are ya : l Lol, what a paradoxical statement. My taste in movies is only shit to you because of your differing opinions. Learn how opinions work, kiddo.
@@ReySkywalker2 lol "toxic". Imagine calling a different opinion toxic 😂
Anakin is a Shakespearean tragic
character
The writing of Rey is a Shakespearean tragedy
Dude, well put
Is this a joke?
Not rey, the entire sequel trilogy is a tragedy, a Kathleen Kennedy tragedy
this is the best comment i have ever read
@@au7923 No, It's a Fact
Calling Anakin a Mary Sue only started after people ridiculed Rey for being a textbook Mary Sue. It was done mostly by Rey fans just to defend themselves and now it's just their coping mechanism.
Rey is a Mary Sue-per easy, barely an inconvenience type of character 😂
@@CorePathwayoh really!
What's funny is that the many people made the same rebuttals that the drinker made in this video. The op of the twitter post eventually just commented.
"Lol. I triggered so many people. Man babies." Something condescending like that instead of addressing any of the arguments made against his statement.
Let me get this straight, Anakin, one of the greatest force users ever, loses a lot of his abilities and never reaches the pinnacle of being a Sith lord nor a Jedi master. Loses his hand, his legs, becomes disfigured, and has 100% of body burned. Anakin loses everyone he loves, including his wife, all the while, trying to save those he loves the most. How... in... the... hell... is Anakin Skywalker... a Mary Sue?
Palpatine designed Vader life support system to be shit and his suit to be bad for combat, it was meant to keep him down just enough that if they got into a fight Palpatine would have the advantage.
@@imo098765 ironic
When dumb !diots only googled "Mary-Sue" rather than attending literature classes, that's how.
@@imo098765 I like the explanation for how awkward he fought in the original movies and how it didn't line up with the super acrobatic fight style in the prequels.
yeah if Anakin is a Mary Sue he would have Force heal Padme and defeat Obiwan despite his "Highground".
Anakin cried.
Luke cried.
Rey frowned.
She frowned cause she saw her script was terrible and it was so bad she couldn't even shed a tear, it surpassed into complete mental shutdown and she blanked out.
She frowned because she just knew she'll never be the legends of cinema that the original movies created.
Brilliant, *brilliant*
That's on the actor probably lol
Finn yelled "REEEEEEYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!"
If he’s a Mary Sue, he would never become “Darth Vader” in the first place.
well there is alternative ending of "Star wars episode 3 game" where Anakin kill Obiwan on his high ground and Palpatine. but still would not counted as Mary Sue.
ZzVinniezZ I mean he’s still a villain. He just becomes emperor over palpatine
@@FlorianFlorian573 yes like i said he wouldn't be counted as Mary Sue as no one actually like him in the movie...the Council of Jedi caution with him being "the chosen one", Sith want to Manipulate him. the one who love him is Padme
Mary Sue is a character that loved by everyone and even Villain would give the character an Easy time in a fight in a stupid way for the Main character to win.
ZzVinniezZ yeah I know.
@@ZzVinniezZ were can I c the alternate ending?
In the novelization of Episode III, Anakin needed to be a Jedi Master to access a piece of the Jedi library. He thought the key to saving Padme was in that section. So not only did the Council personally insult him, but they also denied him a chance to save his wife.
I’ve also read the novelized versions a long time ago but I thought they’re not considered canon. Still a cool point tho
Couldn't he just ask Obi-Wan for help?
@@geg_otmopo3 Ask the Jedi Master on the council for help with the wife he was ABSOLUTELY NOT supposed to have? Don't forget, he did go to Yoda for advice and all he got was silly New Age Buddhism about "letting go."
@@PhilosophicallyAmerican Yes, Obi-Wan is dogmatic as hell but nearly not as much as Yoda. Also he and Anakin in ROTS were MUCH closer than just a master and a padawan, basically brothers. Pretty sure Obi-Wan wouldn't snitch on Anakin and he probably already knew about him and Padme.
@@geg_otmopo3 Fair points, but at the same time I understand why Anakin would not wish to take that chance. Additionally, Kenobi is not much more powerful than Anakin in Episode 3.
Anakin: Gets his hand cut off and later loses pretty much all his limbs while being turned into a burnt chicken nugget.
People: "Ah yes, definitely a Mary Sue."
You forgot that he also was pretty well fried by Quant Dwukku
Nuggies are for normies reeeeeeee
Meanwhile, Rey makes it through 3 whole movies with... Hell, did she even get scratched?
@@Umbra_Ursus I don't even think she made a grimace of effort.
fforde groupie I think she might’ve broke a sweat in the Ros but that’s just a theory
Anakin literally lost a limb, his mom, and eventually his wife. All being consequences for his mistakes. The dude’s whole story is how he became Darth Vader. Anakin is full of character development. Rey is nothing but corporate corruption.
And then lost all 3 of his other limbs and set on fire by lava and forced to live the rest of his life in a cumbersome, restrictive, and extremely uncomfortable suit he needs to stay alive
Luke is somewhat of a Gary Stu and Ray is the most glaring example ever of a Mary Sue, but Anakin? Nope.
PS Edited just to have a better wording.
@@cidiose how is luke a mary sue? he wouldve died in anh if han didnt come back and shot vaders tie fighter, in esb he walks into a trap on bespin and gets his hand cut off, and in rotj wouldve died if vader didnt kill palpatine lol. how td is he a mary sue? hes also not liked by everyone, in anh the bar alien starts a fight with him, jabba laughs at him when he says hes a jedi. in esb yoda doesnt like him much either.
@@happytimes8623 also Luke has trouble with his training like lifting his x wing.
@@cidiose delete this comment now
Not even close. He got rejected by the council. He’s training literally started because the council was sad qui gon Jin died. He was shown as immature, and arrogant. He was bested by count dooku fairly easily in attack of the clones. He was fairly easily manipulated by palpatine. He fell from grace to become Darth Vader and was by no means perfect. He was a tragic character which made him so likable. Rey literally found lightsaber and boom, most powerful Jedi ever.
Very good post, Chris Belcore.
Well to be fair count dooku was a master duelist who trained 8+ years of training and his lightsaber was made to duel with.
@@b1battledroid179 80?
@@caioramos8454 no I think it was around 8 to 12 year
@@b1battledroid179 really? Dudes like 70 in the prequels, thougt he trained more
What makes Anakin’s story even more tragic is that his personality actually got better during the clone wars. He goes from being an impatient padawan with a bad attitude, to a Jedi knight who has a better attitude and a little more patience. Plus he was a good master to Ashoka. He even showed restraint in the original 2003 cartoon that came out. As a Jedi Knight I mean. I’m not saying he was perfect but still he did show good character development. Still all of that character development was dumped into the lava because Anakin let his fears get the best of him. I will admit though the Jedi council(including Obi-Wan) was a bit critical on Anakin at times. So there was fault on both sides.
The Jedi Councel has done a lot to make Anakin as fucked up as he was. Yoda telling Anakin to let go of his emotions is not a valid response to someone who is grieving the losses of the ones he cares about like his mother, it isn't a healthy way to cope. Also remember in the Clone Wars where Obi Wan AND the Jedi Councel decided to gaslight Anakin into believing his master died? What about the time the Jedi Councel decided Ahsoka had to be put on trial for a crime she didn't commit, that led to her leaving the Jedi order aswell as leaving Anakin. Then the Jedi Councel denied Anakin the rank of master, because they were too scared of him. Sheeve Palpatine has always shown Anakin kindness and acceptance, which is why Anakin chose him over Mace Windu.
The truth of the matter is. The Jedi Order where so corrupt and blind from politics that they allowed Sheeve to manipulate Anakin into joining his side.
@@ronantheronin3521 yeah very true. Only thing I disagree with you on is the whole master thing. I think Anakin needs to wait a little bit longer before he becomes a master. He’s a great warrior but there are some things he needs to learn before becoming a master. Even though he matured during the clone wars, he still lets his emotions take control of him. I would say make him a master around his late 20s or exactly 30.
@@Steel-101 I took the offer of the seat on the council but not a rank of Master to be a test of Anakin's pride and patience. He was denied the rank of Master, and he got visibly frustrated and vocally critical in the moment. The response they were likely hoping for was something along the lines of "If you do not think me ready for the rank of Master, then I should not have a seat on the Council". But the fact that the title and rank of Master wasn't granted to him being what set him off likely communicated to the Council that he was still too impatient to be considered a Master.
@@ronantheronin3521I think you're fundamentally misunderstanding the relationship the council had with Anakin. The council acting officially can't afford to play. They once said Anakin was dangerous, and they were absolutely right.
Look how much damage he did because he got too attached to the wrong person. It s not Padme's fault, but Anakin's attachment to her meant the genocide of thousands of people, and later on millions.
This is a direct result of Anakin never developing the qualities of an actual jedi. He could act like one, but he didn't have the mental and emotional grounding.
This would have been okay if he acknowledged that and stopped putting himself in positions where that internal maturity was *necessary*, but this man was in charge of thousands of lives and acting like a teenager sneaking around.
If you don't see what I mean, ask yourself, would Obi-Wan have fallen for the same trap? No. Obi-Wan proves himself capable of self-reflection, self-control, forethought, humility, etc. These are the qualities Anakin learns to imitate but not apply on his own. Would ahsoka have fallen for it? No. We all know she wouldn't have. Because Ahsoka is a jedi.
Why does he get mad when told he'll be on the council but not a master? Everything we see tells us other jedi see it as an honor, but a duty and a responsibility. He evidently only sees the honor part. And he's too immature to understand that giving him the rank of Master would be ridiculous.
They're not persecuting him by not promoting him. Being a jedi master at 25 would be absolutely laughable. He s way too young. And by his reaction, he proves right then and there that he's not qualified.
An actual jedi, even if they were mad or embarrassed, would reason with themselves that expecting a promotion they haven't earned is arrogance and self-absorption.
Anakins problems are exacerbated by Sidious's grooming. But that doesn't change the fact that he shares the responsibility because he never actually applies the lessons of the Jedi order. He wants the power, the prestige, to be somebody. But he's not willing to do the work and he has very little humility.
If being a jedi was so intolerable, he could have left. Every Canon in star wars makes it clear the Jedi are not chained to the temple. If he felt unsupported, unloved, belittled, he could have left at any time and become and ordinary citizen. The Jedi order would not have pursued him unless he started doing dark side nonsense. He didn't do that because he *wanted* to be important. Why should he, who is so powerful and special, act like a random everyday nobody? I mean, he could have gone back and rescued his mother, you know gotten her off of tatooine, but no that wouldn't do.
There are lots of people to blame for Anakin turning out the way he did, mostly himself and Palpatine. But if the Jedi were to blame for anything, it's not being hard *enough* on him.
@@rachelclark6393 While I agree with most of what you said, I disagree with the "not being hard enough on him" line. They said Anakin was dangerous from an early age and treated him as such throughout his formative years. Maybe had they actually been kind to him at some point, he would have been more accepting of their training. When you permanently keep somebody at arm's length, you can't be surprised if they eventually end the relationship.
It’s weird cuz Anakin’s whole thing is that he’s a tragic character, that is an anti-mary sue
Not to mention he is the master of failure. Mary Sues don’t fail
A mary sue is someone who is seen as too perfect and almost boring for lack of flaws. That doesint line up with Vadar at all. Vadar fucked up so bad that he got the love of his life killed and became number one to the most evil man in the galaxy.
@Twisted Yoda I said he was number one to the most evil man. That evil man is the Emperor. I didn't say anything wrong but i could have phrased it better. What would be more accurate would be to say he became the puppet to the most evil man in the galaxy.
@@billfred9411 Second two most evil man in the galaxy as Darth Vader had that tiny amount of light and goodness still bruning inside of him that both Padmé and Luke saw.
@@danielolsson7134 Geez i guess im old and am using out dated lingo you guys dont understand. Being someones number one means you are his right hand man. I was saying Vader is number one to the most evil man. That evil man is the emperor.
And Rey *DARE* to call herself a "Skywalker" without losing her hand!?!??!
What sorcery is this???
Yeah but she put some life force from her hand to the snake in the pit and the hand was like cold for maybe 5 seconds. That's gotta count right..
@joaquin arguello she lost her han(d)
@Oliver Higgins That's because Anakin is actually her dad. Sheev Palpatine is Rey's Grandfather and therefore Rey is a Palpatine, not a fucking Skywalker. You're not just part of someone's legacy just because you say you are.
@@mainiomooses8174 she never had a robotic hand
@@malmalfactor3544 watch Disney make Palpatine Anakin's father
The worse thing is that Rey is angry all the time yet she never suffers the consequences when it comes to being a Jedi.
Briefly when she killed Chewbacca. Whoopsies, you shot the wrong ship.
Worst is that she is written by somebody who probably never tried to watch Ep. I-VI for any other reason than stilling some ideas (but without understanding lore0 or I dunno. Visit wookiepedia. My "fan" thing in SW is reading on internet about stuff that wonderedd me, playing few games and watching movies. I would probably write better Ep. VII-IX drunk. As joke.
Her dark side resistance probably works like movie Bruce Banner's...
@@mksmike atleast he had some sort of consequence, unlike rey.
@@keniel-prime6214 I recall writing something about Anakin in the movies not being well-written, yes, but I don't think it was in this specific thread.
Here, I was mocking Rey's absurd powers by making a comparison to the hulk in the avengers movie. You know, that "I am always angry" bs?
Anakin is a false Messiah, i love his story. He's actually the most compelling character for me.
Anakin is the one who brings balance to the force until the stupid ass new movies I pretend don't exist came out.
@@klh768 bro what new movies?
The original Obi-Wan was the chosen one. He brought balance to the Force, when he defeated Vader on Mustafar (Lava World, Revenge of the Sith, I don’t count Disney Star Wars as Canon) and Anakin was the “false messiah” as you put it, but, in my opinion, he (as with most messiahs) had a series of critical moments that turn him from a herald of an uplifting exhalation, and becomes a dark destroyer (or, ‘fiery-accuser) to punish society’s (the Emperor) ills.
@@brockdavid After the events of Mustafar, Darth Sidious was still about.
I'm pretty sure even if Anakin didn't turn, order 66 would have happened (although less effective, obviously)
@@m4gick idk.. new Starwars movies.. You mean Rogue One? That's the only one I can think of.
Anakin trained for 10 years, can’t heal his mom. Rey trained for maybe a few months, heals a lightsaber stab wound instantly
Rey never even trained, she never had to. From the start she was using Jedi mind tricks without even knowing what the force really is (Luke was not able to do this till episode 3 after many years of training). She was besting Kylo in a light saber duel and besting him easily without having used a light saber before. Her character is ridiculous, and the last Jedi was one big cringe fest. Terrible movies.
When I first saw the force awakens I though it had potential, now looking back the signs of the new trilogy being a big steaming pile of dog crap were there. I was simply eager to see a new star wars trilogy with my kids. They didn't like them either, but they do like the Lucas Star Wars the real Star Wars.
"I've only seen this kind of raw power once before?"
"Your father?"
"Nah, the Chosen One is a loser"
"Your sister?"
"Never finished her training"
"Obi-Wan"
"Not him either"
hell rey didn't even train. They forced in some training spots in rise but thats cause people pointed out how the hell is she so powerful with zero training.
@@Slavic_Boer and according to Poe, Rey took his title of "best pilot" and of _course_ she's the best fighter in the "resistance"
Gosh golly, isn't Rey just the bestest! She can do everything! Such great, very wow!
@@Slavic_Boer who is Anthony Ingruber? Na, Disney needed someone famous, someone with "star power." they needed that other guy, good ol' what's his name to draw on the crowds.
You know the guy, I think was in that other thing?
The guy literally was corrupted and changed sides that makes him not a Mary Sue already lmao, do those people even watch the movies
No, they don't.
The point is not the truth behind the statement. It's a trick to get you to refute or defend at length a completely irrelevant point, and forget the whole point of the argument. Watch Bill Hicks' take on post modernism for a good summary.
They don't watch them, as sales borne out. The louder the SJW, the more likely that they've never heard of jack shit about the actual subject they're trying to cancel you over. Freudian Hypocrisy 101.
Nah, classic SJW behaviour is to get pissed at something they don't even know anything about for virtue bucks to spend in the vbuck store
TwoSevenX what the fuck does freudian mean here
"Anakin is a Mary Sue!!1!!" His entire story is a blood-soaked tragedy that leaves him a crippled husk on life-support and everyone he knows either dies or wants him dead. Totally comparable to Rei whose only moment of tragedy is when she only got "one-quarter portion" from her blob-dad. Makes sense.
"one-quarter portion from her blob-dad. Makes sense."
OMFG! He was totally fat-shaming her!
The fact that they even attempted to call Anakin a Mary Sue shows how much they don't know movies
@60 Billion Double Dollar Man what do u mean?
@60 Billion Double Dollar Man are you saying doomguys a mary sue?
@@debussy9373 I guess that's not entirely inaccurate, but he's really less a character and more an avatar for the player. Not really what you should be basing your movie character development on
The story of Mary Sue from a mythological perspective is essentially the absence of struggle and adversity. Anakin’s story, at least if you limit it to the prequels, is a literal tragedy. He sacrifices everything and gets nothing in return, and the worst part is that it could all have been avoided. Sure, Anakin was more gifted than any other but he was equally cocky and arrogant which was the cause of his ultimate fall from grace.
Star Wars is, quite literally, the Tragedy of Anakin Skywalker. It's his rise, fall, and redemption.
Anakin: *Trains* = Loses a hand, gets his ass kicked.
Luke: *Trains* = Loses a hand, gets his ass kicked.
Rey: *Doesn't train* = Beats the shit out of the antagonist
Edit: If into the replies you will go, only pain you will find.
Also....
Anakin: Doesn’t train, is 9 years old and has no experience with piloting = Perfectly pilots a Naboo starship and destroys the Droid Control Ship.
Luke: Doesn’t train and has only piloted a space tractor = Is able to pilot an X-Wing better than all the Rebel pilots and can use the Force to make a 1/1000000 shot - WITHOUT a targeting computer.
Rey : Trains for 2 years and with ancient Jedi texts = Gets the shit beaten out of her by Kylo, tries to exile herself, gets force life drained by Palpatine and literally dies of exhaustion.
@@ReySkywalker2 Only AFTER beating the crap out of Kylo Ren 1-2 movies prior. And killing Snoke's bodyguards. With the actual end of the fight is Rey leaving him alone in the middle of the ocean.
And Luke was established to be a good pilot and marksman in ANH. His ship is also a similar model to the T-65 X-Wing.
Anakin, is literally Force Jesus. His reflexes are beyond any human, this allows him to react and maneuver better than ordinary pilots.
Our One True Emperor anakin has no prior experience with piloting? I assume you didn’t watch the pod racing segment plus he had R2 during that flight
@@ReySkywalker2 Also:
Rey with no training: *Learns force techniques perfectly without practice, defeating a Dark Side user (A FRIGGING SKYWALKER) the first day she held a lightsaber*
Our One True Emperor clearly you didn’t click on the video to watch it. Her setbacks are merely fleeting moments that leave no lasting mark to her character, therefore she doesn’t develop.
Anakin: a literal chosen one figure in the force, was trained for over a decade, lost to Count Dooku in their first duel, lost his arm, his mother, betrayed the Jedi, betrayed his friends, almost killed Padme in a fit of rage, lost another arm and his legs after being defeated by his former teacher, and spent the next two decades under the guidance of emperor Palpatine, until he sacrificed himself when he threw Palapatine off a platform into an active engine, seemingly killing him instantly.
Rey Palpatine: is able to best trained forces users with no training, also defeated several royal guards along side Kylo Ren with at most a days worth of training, was able to use force lightning and mind manipulation with no exposure to prior abilities, and finally defeated Sheev Palpatine in the dumbest way you can imagine, ultimately robbing that victory from Anakin, and just to add insult to injury, even buries his and Leia’s lightsaber in the place he hated growing up in and stole his last name.
You forgot about Force Healing. Can't forget about that
@@dresean3725 There are so many layers to the bullshit parfait that is Rey.
@@1988foxtrot You should coin that term, I love it
@Ivan just murdered the Mary Sue narrative worse than The Drinker!
He did kill Padme she died during pregnancy because of him
"Perusing Twitter when I was looking at calm, logical, and rational comment"
Man his sarcasm is on point!
Joshua Benitez it’s a second language for the Jocks.
@@businesssecretsofthepharao8901 what do you mean?
@@warlord733 It's the way we speak. If there's not thick sarcasm then it's not real conversation.
This is actually why i love the prequels so much. It’s basically one movie split into 3 chapters. It may not be everyone’s cup of tea but you can’t deny the great character development and overarching story
yeah, yeah we can deny that
Agreed
@@christophertaylor9100your favourite movie was probably eternals
@@GenericUsername-o7d Kids usually like the prequels, its when they grow up and watch them again that they realize how terrible they were.
@@christophertaylor9100 what exactly made them so bad
All Anakin was was the chosen one, one gifted in the Force. That is literally it. If he was never trained, he wouldn't know how to use the Force. Rey literally overpowers anyone without any training.
GrimmyReaper but..but muh desert scavenging.
Exactly, she even used the fuckin Jedi mind trick without prior training. When I saw that in the theaters I was like "how the fuck did you know how to do that? Or rather how did you even know what the fuck that was in general"? She also moved things with the force and defeated kylo ren. And the next movie is all about her training how to use the force and fight and I'm like: FOR WHAT????
Fuck, even Anakin being the Chosen One had to go through years of training and was still beaten by less powerful but more skilled/experienced opponents. Note very Mary Sue-like
If Anakin has been left on Tatooine...he may have never known about the full extend of his power so...yeah not a Gary Sue.
@@leenaleewitch3731 If anakin would've been left on tatoinne he would still be working as a slave of watto and would be the best pod racer that ever was . That's it , he couldn't even begin to win pod racing before Qui gon told him how to channel his potential and only then did he win .
Windu: "Palpatine's lightning is too strong!"
Anakin: "Just get a second lightsaber."
Windu: "Lmao thanks Anakin."
Palpatine: *confused screaming*
Order 66:aight imma head out
hahahahahahahaha damn savage lmao
Anakin: Here! Use mine too. Get him tiger!
And Palps looked a lot stronger in Episode 9
If Anakin was a Mary Sue, he would have been portrayed as the good guy even after committing all of these horrible acts.
We are expected to sympathize with Anakin and see him as the good man described by Ben Kenobi even after he butchers women and children. I definitely wouldn't say Anakin is a Gary Stu, but he's still terribly written in many ways.
@@SolarDragon007 good point. Tho i like to think obi wan was just avoiding the truth and lying to luke to motivate him to get vader since he couldn't do it himself.
@@SolarDragon007 No, we're expected to see his fall _from_ that good man Obi-Wan spoke so highly of to something much more corrupt.
@@dylang1138 I never really saw him as a good man in the Prequels. He was arrogant and constantly butted heads with Obi-Wan in AOTC and then murdered women/children. By the time we finally get a more heroic Anakin at the beginning of ROTS, I don't care about him anymore because he's already crossed the moral event horizon.
@@SolarDragon007 That's true, actually. Guess the intended story worked a bit better in theory. The Clone Wars does make a bit more sense out of it though.
Even at the end of episode III… when he actually gets into the suit… THE FIRST THING HE SAYS is “Where is Padmé? Is she safe? Is she alright?” And it is at this moment you actually see that he was nothing more than a weapon… and that the Emperor didn’t even grant him his wish of saving Padmé… just used him.
At that moment? Isn't that obvious through the whole thing? He was being used, the take out the Jedi and because Palpatine wanted a new acolyte and he was very powerful. What better victory than to turn their great hope against them and use him to destroy them. Although what annoys me is how did they not see it coming? They knew from the start it was risky to train him, he had too much baggage. And then they just ignore all the warning signs and all security are just like "well i guess we will just have to hope he wins in his personal struggle with the Dark Side, because it would sure suck if this powerful new Acolyte we are training and who shows resentment, an inability to conquer his emotions and fears,an inability to take orders from anyone, pride and ambition, turned to the Dark Side and then attacked us from within, right? Although to be fair since they somehow didn't know about Palpatine either, they didn't know that he was being actually trained in the Dark Side. Maybe a pupil who is just sliding over the line is usually easier to save and pull back, they don't usually go directly to murdering all the children.
Anakin failed as a Jedi and fell for the dark side and had to be saved by his son, so no. And let's not forget that he has weaknesses, especially sand.
and the high ground
Anakin's weaknesses are Sand, High Ground, and of course, a Bad Script...
Yea but didn't you know Rey failed to beat kylo in a single fight in the 3rd movie after beating him multiple times in the first 2 movies in both combat and Jedi tricks without any training what so ever. So clearly she must not be a Mary Sue.
The typical definition is "character who is depicted as unrealistically lacking in flaws or weaknesses." The whole character of Anakin is nothing but weaknesses and flaws.
@@kirby7294 that's what make the movies good
It took 13 years for Anakin to learn to fight with lightsabers, Rey just swings a lightsaber like a tennis racket
And he still wasn’t a master until he became a sith
@Only1CookieMan Noone is gonna get this lmao
@Only1CookieMan I just watched that video LOL
@@owyemen9367 I get it, but I am a nobody
@@elfasto2255 did you find the kitty cat bracelet?
he literally failed the one thing he wanted to do. save his wife.
And his mother.
And lost his legs and padawan, and never even got the title of Jedi master, yeah I'm guessing he wasn't very well liked by Jedi in general.
And failed to bring light to the Force, instead of plunging it into the dark.
And got shorter instead of becoming taller, how's he supposed to stand up and get noticed when he's gone from like 6' to 3'?
@@cocodojo No it was just a misconstrued prophecy (that no one ever talked about until Anakin came into the picture). Its more like- "He will bring balance to the force, but you don't wanna go down that road."
But then he did. c'est la vie
Anakins personality was shaped by his childhood. He loved his mother who protected him as a slave and quickly went from a slave to a Palawan and was told he was special. Any kid would grow an ego and become overconfident, rash, temperamental which we see as a constant pattern of behavior through the trilogy which makes SENSE.
Now with Rey she was abandoned by her parents and had to learn to salvage. JJ tried to show off her salvage skills and whatnot but it was literally a small bit, Rey should have also been reluctant to accept her force sensitivity and have a hard time connecting with people. She should have been distrustful of everyone and not accept any help from anyone due to the pain of being abandoned as a child and feeling that if she were to trust anyone she'd be hurt.
Could have had Rey steal the Falcon and run away when they met Han. She should have been someone damaged just like Anakin who had issues with his temper and overconfidence. Rey should have been more introverted, distrustful, skeptical, blunt and sly with half truths to everyone not letting on much about her.
People point out Rey's deadpan face but that is what a Mary Sue is. They don't have personalities since they are flawless so they can't be shown as angry people or depressed etc. Rey should have been a very prickly person and hard to deal with but who slowly opens up to Han and Leia. She should have been tempted with Kylo Ren who would try to bond over how it feels to be betrayed and Kylo could have manipulated her to believe to never trust the Jedi as he was betrayed by Luke and Rey believing him and slowly falling for the dark side of the force.
We could have had a moment where she and Han develop a bond and at the same time she is bonding with Kylo through the force bond they had or whatever and her switching to the Dark side. But then when she sees Kylo kill Han she'd fall to anger even more and attempt to kill Kylo and lose and be abandoned by Kylo who leaves her for dead after all the promises of making her his apprentice and giving her a place where no one would abandon her and instead she could be the one in charge and the second movie could have been her recovering and Luke perhaps coming back after hearing of Hans death and helping Rey master the force to avenge Hans death out of regret his best friend died because he had abandoned the fight. I'm writing a damn script here but I made this up as I went and pretty much sounds 10x better than Disney's shit not to toot my own horn but honestly even 10 year old me could have wrote something better tbh.
honestly this does sound a lot better, like, genuinely the only thing i'd change is (at least specify) that luke didn't still attempt to kill kylo over a *fucking nightmare*
seriously, the sequel trilogy has a lot of flaws, but i will always think that *luke skywalker* attempting to murder his padawan and nephew over a nightmare is easily the worst part.
This is the story we should've gotten, love this it makes logical sense for the character's archetype.
You know there's actually a video created by the critical drinker that gives an alternate version of reys character in TFA. I recommend it
Your excellency, this is a very realistic plotline which encompasses all traits of the characters involved, what are their worldviews, how they interact with other characters, and the motivation of their actiobs and its consequences, even if it ignores the extended universe series of novels which continue on the story of star wars after the end of Return of the jedi movie. Now, if only the studios had made a similar approach.....
How can anyone sit there and say Anakin is a Mary Sue? The guy LITERALLY turned to the dark side
After getting his legs cut off and getting deep fried.
@@ghuttsmckenzie4269 Nah he was already far-gone before that point.
B/c they dont actually know what a Mary Sue is, they just sort of have a vague idea from criticisms of ray, so they incorrectly tried to apply it to Anakin.
@@pete3011 That's exactly what it is. They only note that Rey is "strong" and then somehow equate her to Anakin cuz he was strong too -- ignoring every other characteristic of a Mary Sue, and every other characteristic of Anakin.
I think anyone who equates the two either hasn't seen the prequels or was too young to remember them.
it’s like he said ppl don’t even know what a mary sue is
Calling Anakin a Mary Sue, is a lot like calling Palpatine a misunderstood Hero, it's total horseshit.
Wonders if anyone knows that 'Gary Stu' is the male equivalent of a 'Mary Sue'.... Of course Anakin isn't a Mary Sue... Because Mary Sue's are women...
@kobeftw2400 oh really? Then explain how a nine year old who had never flown a ship managed to destroy a capital ship alone?
who the hell calls palpatine a misunderstood hero? he's the most evil character in fiction
@@rehanashrif8167 also he's a son of the force ITSELF, Palpatine achieved all that power through training.
@@SardonicJosh Yet he still took years of training. And he had flaws. Like mental weaknesses. Or not much forsight. Also *hm*, his hand got chopped off, so he wasn't OP from the start.
Those who says Anakin is a Mary Sue weren't paying attention. It's not just about being strong
Episode 1 Anakin is a Sue, that goes away with episode 2 and 3 though.
@bodd boward to be real, it was said that Anakin never won a pod race before then, despite various attempts. He probably learned a lot from those failures and definitely took in a lot of junk his boss was throwing out.
.
As for building droids, fixing things is literally his job, so it makes sense that he can do it.
.
As for his success in the space battle, he literally just blindly stumbled into that victory like the child equivalent of Jar Jar Binks
@bodd boward was it implied that during the race it was first time Anakin riding a pod? He's a powerful force sensitive and probably trained how to ride that thing.
And it's not like he built robot from scratch, he probably just assembled it from different working parts he found, not a hard task considering he was working at mechanic shop.
So yeah, I call bullshit on at least two of 3 accusations.
@bodd boward if you haven't seen it for 20 plus years, why would your comment be valid in the least?
InfernosReaper Agreed. If you’ll indulge me for a minute: In the Star Wars Phantom Menace novelization (which came out months before the movie), Anikin’s force abilities were pretty passive. He was attuned toward mechanical things that he had fixed, and he had heightened perception. You’re right, he hadn’t won a pod race up to that point. As a slave he pretty much put Watto’s junk back together so that Watto could sell it. He had the force, but the main things he did come about through training and he was helped by Watto’s repair droids.
the fact that people actually hold this take is genuinely hilarious considering we see Anakin lose fights multiple times and is very clearly and obviously flawed to the point that he literally becomes a villain
"Anakin is such a Mary Sue because he's flawless in every way"
Anakin straight up has borderline personality disorder
If they consider Anakin flawless that says so much about what they consider virtuous.
@@splitsong7368 Those ppl that consider Anakin as a “flawless” person are straight evil!
@@splitsong7368 That's a good point, because I was thinking about the way these sequel fanatics act.... They have a lot in common with Anakin, especially young stupid AOTC Anakin.
Yeah he's actually mentally ill like in the clinical sense so that destroys the idea of being him a Mary Sue
He just needed someone to talk to really if the Jedi had allowed attachments he could’ve been the greatest Jedi ever
"Is Anakin a Mary Sue?"
Anakin: *Can't Even Be a Chosen One Correctly and Fails at Fulfilling His Own Prophecy After Crippling Himself Mentally and Physically*
Sequel Fans: "Ya'll hear sum?"
Hi
Anakin did fulfill his prophecy it just took 6 movies to tell the whole story. He brought balance to the force by killing all the jedi and the sith. It's a wicked story George Lucas is a genius.
@@dildodickings2668 love how you left out the sequels that never even linked to the lore developed by the previous 6 movies
@@shrekzebee4435 Yeah to me star wars is the story of the chosen one Anakin Skywalker and that story was told by the first 6 episodes already. Why make more ? Obviously i know why but to me the story of star wars is done they should have made some individual stories not "continue" the already finished story.
Not to mention he lost 3 limbs and all his flesh was burned off
The main difference between Anakin and Rey: Anakin is canon. Rey is non-fan-fiction.
You shouldn't phrase it like that. You make it sounds like all fan fictions are bad. I've read fan fictions that are better than the sequel trilogies that someone got paid to write. For clarification I've only watched episode 7, that was a boring and frustrating movie to watch.
Glasses foo : Absolutely! There’s some amazing Star Wars stories on FanFiction.Net
Yes. It's like badly written fan fiction. In fact there are amateur fan fiction writers who could have done a better job.
I will never accept the sequels!
@@branhun This guy got it!
It seems like there were good stories in the prequels for those looking for them and with a bit of generosity for all the awful dialogue. The sequels you can just tell they didn't have a story to tell
Watch the video "George Lucas - King of Wooden Dialogue", it might add to your perspective on the dialogue a bit. I've personally never had an issue with the dialogue, but maybe that's because I watch the two trilogies as a sort of modern cultural mythology, rather than a story that's grounded in our world in every way except the sci-fi stuff.
I know it's Apples and Oranges, but they're all still fruit: I also never had a problem with the seemingly odd dialogue in stories like Gilgamesh, the various Shakesperian plays, Brave New World, A Clockwork Orange, Eraserhead, Twin Peaks, and probably others that aren't coming to me yet. I think the merit of dialogue delivery is relative to the tone you're going for in whatever medium you're telling a story within, and the overall way the setting/world in said story operates.
"I know it's apples and oranges, but it's all still fruit"
I'm gonna remember this next time some penishead says "Um like you literally can't compare (x) to (y) because (superficial different between x and y)
Bassically all the sequels are, just a money grab, but still enough of a continuation of the series I suppose
"Remember when older mentors were allowed to train the protagonist?"
This single statement is the main thing wrong with Rey...
"OLD(er) MEN(tors)". -> Here is your problem. No movies for them anymore.
Remenber when Disney created a female Yoda and she just disapeared after episode 7
@@gogetac2r You mean that person who was in a cameo in episode 8, but not doing anything useful over some quibble or something and only could be bothered to give very vague clues to the identity of a codebreaker, which ended up causing more problems than it resolved?
Rey's a strong independent woman. She don't need no man.
Yep. In the Disney sequels, we can't show women ever needing to learn anything, especially from a straight white man (yuk!!), so instead, it's Rey who winds up teaching Luke Skywalker a thing or two.
"I was browsing twitter looking for calm, logical, rational discussion about the merits of the sequel trilogy" Ah I see you're only interested in the exceptionally rare.
r/saltierthancrait would appreciate him
*”Rare” implies that it still exists. **_The existence of rational discourse on Twitter is still only a theory._*
You'd have better luck finding cheap coffee at Starbucks.
You'd have better luck seeing Bigfoot
you’d have better luck understanding a david lynch film on first watch
The short answer? Nope.
This guy trained for years to develop his powers and still made enormous blunders that impacted countless millions.
He lost *ALL of his limbs* he suffered for his choices, before earning his redemption Rey doesn't even come close to suffering from anything
Literal prophesied hero demigod in the prime of his life with 10 years of training in the best conditions possible...gets brutalized and mutilated by an 80 year old wizard in a sword fight.
I was about to say, and like...you said it for me. Anakin not only has bad shit happen to him, and not only is a lot of it his own fault, but his flaws cause BILLIONS and then some to suffer!
*tens to hundreds of billions.
Guys anakin is too op like it’s totally unnatural for a white male to train for years and to be the prophecy and still lose to stronger people
Anakin:
- lost all four limbs
- lost a duel to a sith lord and his former master
-put into a suit that is constantly torturing him to keep him angry and quite powerful
-grew up a slave
-actually trained to become powerful
-lost his mother.
Rey No-Skywalking Palpatine:
-Was just bored.
Don't forget the fact that Anakin had 10 years of training inbetween the first and second movie, and then three years of constant warfare inbetween the second and third.
Meanwhile Rey was a master after 1 day of doing nothing
Not to mention: He had a Padawan and learned, that she was HIS responsibility. She was like a little sister to him and she adapted many feats of him and even some flaws (sometimes impatient, not thinking everything to the end). And when it came to Ashoka, he never let anyone do harm to her. I still can remember two incidents, where everyone said, that he should let her go and it is hopeless, to find her. But he didn't gave up, because he loved her (as friend, little sister and padawan)
@@Anthyrion I didn't mention Ahsoka for the sake of keeping It just with the movies, as bringing in third part material would force me to Include stupid programmable lightsaber and force skills from Kylo when talking about Rey, which I refuse to do
@@voicingdragoon7 Yeah, the idea of downloading knowledge from others kind of pokes a massive hole in things. If you can download ability, what's the point in training?
@@BenMaguireLONEWOLF9989 What's the point of a temple?
That’s where the Kathleen Kennedy films miss the mark. The Force is supposed to be extremely difficult to master even for those strong with it. It’s not Harry Potter magic, but that’s how Rey fans explain her instant mastery of skills she never knew existed: “She’s a prodigy.”
Anakin in his third movie: *burning alive with no arms or legs yelling at his own mentor and closest thing he had left to family*
Rey in her third movie: _Defeats literally all the Sith/Palpatine in one lightning beam struggle & takes the Skywalker name because there are no Skywalkers left to stop her_
the truth...HURTS
"struggle"
On a side note did you notice how in ROTS both Anakin and Mace are shielding their eyes from Palpatines lightning yet in ROS rey looks directly into it, do you reckon that's rey being more of a mary sue or just the writers forgetting the lightning is supposed to be bright?
Mr Faorry very minor detail and I don’t think it’s rey being powerful more the writers making a mistake
@@MrFaorry that's just the writters who didn't realize they were making an important movie, and thought they were making some fanfic in wattpad.
She barely even KNEW any of the Skywalkers. They just did that because "fan service uwu!"
In Summar: Anakin has serious character flaws and Rey has serious writing flaws. :D
We can add Anakin to writing flaws if you dont count Clone wars series.
@@madkoala2130 yeah clone wars saved him from being a Mary sue in a classic sense but i still would say he is supposed to be in the story as a critic of the chosen one trope
@@therealmrmago9077
Are you serious ? There is literally no definition of mary sue that Anakin can fit in . With or without the clone wars .
@@stormbringer2840 facts
@@therealmrmago9077 I'd almost say he's a perfect definition of an anti-Mary Sue in the prequels, with the exclusion of the one time he blew up the droid command ship. His every choice outside of that doomed himself and the Jedi, either in the short, or long term. Heck, I'd argue lore wise he should be a Mary Sue, given his position as the Chosen One, but he manages to be the exact opposite, which is hilarious when you consider that they gave Rey what amounts to a "You are the chosen one who can do everything you want" treatment, but they were unwilling to follow through. I didn't much like Last Jedi personally, but had they ran with the idea that Rey was essentially the new Chosen One, specifically born to stop the new wave of Dark Side users, I'd be cool with that. But instead, they made her what amounts to Palpatine's Niece (no one can make me think of her as his grandchild because unlike Boba Fett, you can't convince me Palpatine tried to raise his failed clone).
This got me thinking, what would it take for Anakin to be Mary Sue?
* Anakin is established to NOT be a podracing pilot. He is taught the controls to the podracer immediately prior to the race, as Obi-Wan can't race due to an injury right before the race.
He wins the race, handily.
* Anakin does NOT crash land inside the droid command ship and accidentally torpedo the main reactor.
He attacks from a perfect location that no other Naboo pilots thought to use.
* When he has his nightmare of Shmi in pain, he immediately leaves in the middle of the night.
He uses his force sensitivity to land his ship right outside the Tusken village, walks up and demands they give him back his mother.
He admonishes them for their bad behavior and forces them to take on a better merchant lifestyle.
Shmi is brought back to Naboo where Padme helps her get the medical attention she needs.
Anakin goes Geonosis, saves Obi-Wan, blows up the droid factory, and captures Dooku.
Padme falls deeply in love with him for everything he has done, and says she wants to marry him, even if it is a secret.
* When Padme reveals she is pregnant, Anakin does NOT keep it a secret.
He tells the council and says that he has no choice but to leave the order, for the sake of his wife and child.
They immediately grant him rank of master and tell him he is on the council, and that the order must change to accommodate him.
* His nightmares about Padme's death are different.
He realizes, with the help of his mother, that the visions are false and implanted.
He discusses this plot to infect his mind with the council, who all stand in awe as he reveals that it is Palpatine.
Palpatine is arrested, but in the process kills many Jedi, Anakin bests him easily and takes him in to custody.
The Republic does not become a galactic empire, Luke and Leia are raised by two loving parents. The end.
(I am probably missing many things, but this is a general overview)
Very good! But you should play up the "every good person he meets is inexplicably attentive and respectful of and attracted to him"-angle more. This includes the "every evil character he meets secretly / reluctantly admires him"-aspect. This could even extend to Palps having second thoughts about establishing a Galactic Empire / destroying the Jedi Order because Anikin is "just so likeable."
Imagine being so desperate to defend the sequels that you would call Anakin Skywalker a Mary Sue/Gary Stu.
Lol right. People don't have good arguments to defend the sequels other than calling everyone a "hater" or saying something dumb. I don't hate the sequels like most people do but they are still pretty bad.
I don't know how a guy who mass murder kids and other tribal creatures can be a character whitout flaws
Anakin burning alive in a pit of lava after losing all of his limbs, I mean what a Gary Stu that guy is, right.
lol
@@Geekezf that's pretty subjective tho 🤷♂️ I mean he did those deeds flawlessly right? So yeah Anakin is a big baby Mary sue Gary flu bru
Anakin lost his hand, his mother, his old life, lost faith in the jedi, lost faith in his mentors, lost faith in the republic.
Lost his son, his daughter , his apprentice, all of his friends, half of the 501st.
Then he lost his legs and other arm to his father figure and mentor and was left to burn alive.
Anakin is nothing but a walking tragedy, his power and skill makes him an outsider. His compassion his greatest weakness.
A mary sue? No, I think not.
Obi wan was his brother figure
@@zack0207 hes both. growing up he was his father figure. There's literal dialogue of him saying this in the attack of the clones while they were chasing the bounty hunter.
I dont remember the exact lines but goes like
A: "your the closest thing I have to a father"
O: "then why don't you listen to me"
@@zack0207 Obi-Wan saw Anakin as a brother. To Anakin however, Obi-Wan was a father.
The whole thing is basically two brothers, one an adult and one a child, who lose their father and become orphans. Thus, the older brother steps up and takes their father's place, raising his little brother as best he can.
@@corruptangel6793 Like that pixar movie ? the one with the blue people...... Onward right ?
“You just hate strong women”
Damn, seems like everyone forgot about ahsoka, a woman who’s better than Rey smh
Sexism is way worse these days than it has been since they had no rights forever ago
@@T0WhiteForYou What are you trying to get at?
Ashoka had a sense of humor, flaws (ie being insubordinate, prone to error, ect), and most importantly: GREAT WRITING!!! It’s the reason why Clone Wars Anikain is such a chad in comparison to the movies.
People did hate ahsoka when she first came out though, she only became popular later on
@@exotoxicekat4915 She became popular nonetheless.
I think the issue is that Rey never really failed at anything. It’s always nice to see your protagonist fail at something because it makes the plot more interesting. Anakin loses all his friends, all his limbs, and he literally falls to the dark side. He’s failed on just about every level. Luke also fails in the Empire Strikes Back. Luke is like Anakin. He’s very hot headed and he runs face first into danger too often. And so when he goes BY HIMSELF to face Vader, he gets his arm cut off and thrown down a garbage chute. He also almost dies in Return of the Jedi. If Darth Vader wouldn’t have saved Luke, he would’ve been killed by the Emperor. I can’t tell you a single moment off the top of my head where Rey gets defeated, or is tempted to join the dark side. That’s what makes her a boring character, not cause she’s good at a lot of stuff
Failing also makes the characters more relatable. We see their struggles, we relate to them, and we get to see how they learn from their mistakes and climb out of it and leaves an audience inspired. This is what Disney failed to do with Rey. She had no struggle so she had no relatability.
To be fair, Rey does fail miserably at being likable.
Rey fails at being a compelling character
Yeah, she beat Snoke 's ass without getting tossed around like a ragdoll, and Ren without Leia's help and she also beat Luke in a stick fight without having to cheat with a lightsaber. She wasn't killed by Palpatine. She got things so easy. Sure.
its hilariously dumb that people think the incredibly flawed Anakin is a mary sue where one of the main principles is to be flawless
Dude literally kills everyone he meets except obiwan, and survived where he was suppose to die
I like how part of his character is that he cares to much for the ones he loves and would do anything to protect even if it means to kill others for them. It shows his flaw in how he is to easily controlled by his emotions and that his arrogance is his downfall. He also had to work hard to become a Jedi and has many years of experience.
Love your OW content BTC. Its awesome that youre a Critical Drinker fan as well. Keep up all the great work dude
@@sethmalcolm6955 you know who Darth Plagueis is right you know who his Apprentice is right what is Darth Plagueis one standout feature you can make people survive the only reason why he killed all those Jedi was because they thought he was a Jedi but didn't realize that he turned
@@sethmalcolm6955 Except Yoda had to save his ass from Count Dooku, so... :/
"Anakin Skywalker is a Mary Sue!" Yeah, the guy who gives in to all his worst instincts and becomes one of the most famous and ruthless villains of all time is a Mary Sue. Sure.
Infamous*
He became a meme for ending People of certain ages in The jedi Temple.
A flawless character.
(avoiding youtube ban Hammer)
Mary Sues are liked by everyone around them for no reason.
Darth Vader is liked by everyone around him because they like being alive.
Basically the same thing, right?
Silver pfp, opinion tolerated
But anakin skywalker is flawed.
The flaws in the Prequel Trilogy were more about execution than concept.
Perfect comment
I don't recall seeing Jar-Jar's execution. Head on a spike, floppy-eared noose, crushed, burned, shot, drowned, impaled, lightsaber sushi, whatever.
And that seems like a flaw to me.
@@pwnmeisterage Jar Jar was intended to be comic relief, but he was too over the top. Lucas wisely muted his wackiness and appearances. You know? Accepting fan criticism without calling us -phobes and -ists.
Oh yeah. There were some great ideas in there, but they were hampered by George Lucas not being good at writing dialogue and his tendency to get bogged down at points.
If someone competent had come in to help clean things up, those movies could've been masterpieces
I don't think The Phantom Menace plot was a good idea, you had a never before seen Republic and powerful Jedi Order but the movie was wasted on Naboo and Gungans.
The other 2 were flawed in execution rather than concept, definitely agree
Anakin isn’t a flawless person, obviously, but I’m gonna list the negative traits I’ve noticed. He’s possessive, arrogant, hot-headed, impulsive, and too trusting towards people who are obviously manipulating him. All these negative traits usually end up with him paying for it. In Phantom Menace, we don’t really see his flaws because he’s still a little kid and the movie mainly focused on Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon. However, in the second and third movies, we see his flaws as plainly as a neon sign. He paid for his arrogance and hot-headedness by losing his hand in the second movie. Then, we see him pay for becoming evil by being burned in Mustafar and left to die. The sycophants clearly never watched the movies before. If they did, they would know Anakin’s story.
I used to think that my life was a tragedy, but now I realize, it’s a MEME
A meme to be sure, but a DANK one.
You would get along with a man named Arthur Fleck.
The best of memes though.
Your meme is cringe, young Cringewalker
I HATE YOU!!!
I just realized...Rey being the emperor's granddaughter technically makes her a Disney princess (groan).
ua-cam.com/video/zZSbdGOuk6k/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/Sx4mfB9kr08/v-deo.html
Ahhahahahahhagahahahhahhahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahagagahahhahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaggahgahagahahahahgagahahahhahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well if thats the case isnt leia and padme also princess? Or one is a queen also?
@@Icarus963 yeah but not Disney ones
The funny thing is that if Rey was treated like Anakin, her character would have been redeemed. They could have introduced the "heir to Palpatine" twist early and it would have fulfilled Rian's obsession with subverting expectations. All of her friends would have treated her with mistrust like a ticking timebomb. Maybe she could have started getting cocky with the ease at which she was picking up her force abilities.
Maybe Luke could have said he fled to the island because he sensed something that reminded him of the emperor's power and needed isolation to prepare for their final meeting, when all of a sudden his heir showed up on his island asking for training and it scares the hell out of him.
Maybe she saves Finn by sneaking up on Phasma, stabbing her through from behind and beheading her. And when Finn locks eyes with her he sees a sort of twisted joy in her eyes that goes beyond just being happy to see an old friend.
Maybe rey and kylo team up to kill Snoke, but afterwards its Rey's idea to join forces and rule together, but Kylo fears her power and rejects her.He allows her safe passage from the ship, but tells her to never return.
And the movie ends with Luke siding with the heroes, Kylo with the first order, and Rey as a rogue agent distrusted by both sides... maybe a force weilding bounty hunter. Expectations totally subverted without going full simp and without destroying the entire franchise.
That's really good actually.
Great stuff. You should try to write a book or something. I genuinely think you have some talent.
I'd have honestly gone with Rey seizes power and boots Kylo out, which would super subvert expectations and give us a very interesting story.
It also could give us a reason for the throne room fight to take place, instead of just being a "there for the sake of having a fight" scene.
Wow, in five short paragraphs you’ve taken a massive stride toward fixing the sequels. I would definitely watch that trilogy.
Edit: I would add that it might be even better to have Rey seize control of the flagship in TLJ after Kylo rejects her. She then dumps Kylo on a random planet and uses the flagship to hunt down the remnants of the first order. Then in TROS, Palpy stays dead and we kick it off with Rey having been successful in crushing the FO remnants but she’s become ruthless. Make the focus of the film Ben’s redemption and have him hook up with the Alliance to try and bring Rey back to the light.
There's so much they could have done with this material and didn't. Make you want to scream.
Another thing about the "we don't grant you the rank of a Master" scene is that it's not only about Anakin's arrogance, but his desperation to save Padme. He thought that he could find relevant information in the Jedi archives that was only accessible to a Master, so that scene must've felt like almost getting a chance to save his lover until it was once again arbitrarily, in his mind, taken from him. This would obviously push him even more towards Palpatine who was claiming he could help Anakin with this matter.
But Anakin is literally an actual Jedi trained by a master and taught for over 10 years. How is that being a Mary Sue.
Rey found out about the god cheat code.
Because when you're a man hating feminist it doesn't have to make sense, he's a straight white male so he's privileged
@@GeneralG1810 please be trolling
@@davidthewaffle7673 Please don't be a male feminist simp
Also, Anakin had to be trained even though he was conceived by the force. He’s no Mary Sue.
I can't comprehend how can someone say that Anakin is a Mary Sue. I mean, I saw it bunch of times from people who defend sequels, but Jesus. He has failed on every step of his journey, helped tyrant rise to power, indirectly killed love of his life, made his children suffer because of his actions. It's almost like he is opposite of Mary Sue.
Exactly. He's a "born Mary Sue" who actually encounters reality, which systematically demolishes his hopes and dreams precisely because he chooses to attack it with a misguided sense of entitlement born of his prodigal abilities. A real Mary Sue does this without encountering any push-back against their arrogance, and this is where the crucial difference lies. If the entire universe lays down and surrenders all logic and independence of its other characters to serve the infallibility of its main character, then it is a cheap, trashy failure of a story - which is the hallmark of a "Mary Sue" fanfiction.
It’s like he was supposed to be a Mary Sue, but he goes the direction of “utopia gone dystopia.”
@@chasm671 not even born a mary sue he was a slave and literally beaten by watto
also love how the 3 sequels dont dare go into anything as dark as the older movies (like child slavery actually decent relationships or any amputation) because they want to make it for kids lmfao
If they are going to call someone a mary sue they stalk about luke. Though he is not as bad as rey he has a lot of mary sue qualities.
Anakin is just Arthas Menethil without a solid story to help him shine.
Think of this for a minute. According to what Anakin said in the prequels, from the time he was 3 years old, he spent his entire life calling someone 'Master.' Whether it was Watto, Obi-Wan, or the Emperor. And Vader died at the age of 46 (if memory serves). Imagine from 3-46 you had to literally call someone 'Master.' Literally until the day you died. I don't think any Mary Sue ever had to endure that.
You just blew my mind. Only at the end, was Anakin truly free.
You can add another name to that list. Anakin and Shme were sold/lost to Watto from Jabba the Hutt
So even though Luke spent more time on Tattooine, He's the only Skywalker to not be a slave to the Hutts
That's beautiful.
@@more-reasons6655 and in a bit of irony, in rescuing Han, Luke and Leia killed Jabba.
ua-cam.com/video/9minv0O8rlI/v-deo.html
BORN INTO A PACK
This actually made me appreciate Anakin a lot more than I ever had. I was never a fan of the prequels but, wow, I hadn't really given enough thought to his arc. And the more reviews I watch, the more it's cemented that quitting an hour into this first sequel Disney put out was the absolute right choice.
Remember when Qui Gon said: "Anakin, training to become a Jedi is not an easy challenge. And even if you succeed, it's a hard life.". Well not anymore, thanks to Disney
When did the prequels show that Jedi training is a hard life? All of that was shown in ESB.
@@drlee2 that's because the prequels didn't show jedi training at all..but in attack of the clones anakin has already undergone 10 years of training...and still gets his ass "hand"ed to him by count dooku
@@kailashs4521 The hand joke is like the... Other hand jokes. Nice one.
@@drlee2 Difficulty of training was shown in Clone Wars mostly through Ahsoka, but the difficulty of life as a Jedi overall is shown through Anakin’s struggle of balancing his personal, emotional desires with Jedi expectations
When Anakin fights Dooku with years of training : fails and loses a limb
When Rey fights Kylo with no training whatsoever: wins literally every time
That first sabre battle lost the new trilogy for me. Totally lost all possible suspense for the whole series.
@Brooks Wimberly okay, how about all the other times she never failed?
Im not defending Rey at all but Kylo won their fight in Rise of Skywalker. Kylo's own mama helped Rey "win" such a stupid fucking movie. Why tf wouldn't all the Jedi help....idk the descendant of the two families that were crucial in defeating the Empire? Skywalker & Solo's?
FaZe Papasito
Except Rey handles herself well in that fight and winds up saving Kylo at the end.
@@fazepapasito8166 She saved kylo a bunch of times and she took on multiple guards at once too
If anyone actually thinks Anakin Skywalker is a “Gary Stu” then you might want to rewatch the entire Prequel trilogy.
Errr...no thanks. 😂
Only if you want to hurt yourself.
Or hell watch Clone Wars
I'll pass.
And to see a doctor.
anyone that says "you aren't ready to have that conversation." is really saying "Im ready to ignore any logical evidence you try to introduce in to the conversation."
Anakin has had more training than Rey, and still lost all of his limbs plus some fuck ups on the side
@Offworlder1 its pretty much like when your buddy loads your old save of Knights Of The Old Republic and plays the final stage.
@@caprice28 Isnt that how Reys powers are explained. Kylo trains, and Rey benefits.
@@tqlla Ah yes the power of bad writing
@@usernamealreadytaken9330 more like the power of "I'm a strong independent wahmen"
@@tqlla ha.
"You just hate strong women!"
*Laughs in Ahsoka Tano*
A Jedi that doesn't win anywhere near all her fights, but is willing to sacrifice herself to save others, like when she thought off general grievous to save the younglings
Why couldn’t we get Mara Jade?!
@@kintamas4425 Disney probably would've ruined her if they had included Mara Jade
@Neo's danger laughs in Satine also
@@aaronmueller5542 please, I'll cry now, please
The "y'all ain't ready to have that conversation" statement is, quite possibly, the perfect way to signal to everyone that you are a pretentious person.
I think a lot of problems in the world wouldn't exist in the first place if those twits' parents had taken the time to have a long and serious conversation with their spoiled brat of a child including some vigorous spanking.
And a paid troll ordered to provoke 🖕I guess it worked?!
@@RootofYishay I don't think they expected an answer.
"I know THE TRUTH but obviously the rest of you peons aren't prepared to hear it."
Basically, that's it.
I didn't like the prequels and still don't, but Anakin was definitely not a Mary Sue.
It's an insulting and dismissive statement, getting the last word in, declaring the "conversation" is over.
It's also immature and cowardly. A valid argument is unassailable and shouldn't be worried about counterarguments - indeed, it should invite "more conversation" so that challengers have opportunity to say things which make their opposing arguments weak and/or which make them appear stupid.
Anakin is not a Mary Sue trope. He is a Fallen Hero trope. So different I can't believe anybody could confuse the two.
Even Anakin's hair is better than Rey's.
Your damn right!
Lol fax
No ones hair is better than Anakins, well maybe besides obi wan
@@markiss69 I don't think it's fair to compare Jesus with Anakin.
That kinda sus bro but true 😎
Anakin is such a Mary Sue he became the villain.
Wait.
Villains can be Mary Sues too. When that happens they're usually super powerful and tragically misunderstood; it will probably turn out they committed all their most horrible acts because it was necessary to save the world. They reflect the authors feelings of self-pity, entitlement and resentment over other people not being able to see how amazing they are.
I think the most important characteristic of a Mary Sue is that they're never humiliated in the eyes of the audience. They might have their low points in the story, they might be abused, hated, thought to have made a mistake by other characters, but we the audience always see how noble, selfless, smart and good the Mary Sue is. And of course right. Mary Sues always turn out to have been right about everything important by the end of the story.
Anakin, however, gets humiliated all the time and turns out to have been wrong about everything, and the most embarrassing bit is that he got played by someone else every step of the way. Definitely not a Mary Sue, imo.
Anakin ends up losing everything and everyone he ever cared about due to manipulations outside his control, unlucky circumstances and his poor decision making coming from his relatable, but deeply-flawed character. He's a protagonist of a classic greek tragedy,
Seriously...people are thinking Anakin as a Mary Sue...gosh...
@Cloud10 Hmm yes I guess it's the plot behind...that's still a very stupid plot.
Imagine being hated by fans when your original movie came out, then suddenly a decade later you are a beloved character because current ones are hated even more.
Funny enough the fact that he murders kids, chokes his wife when its not consensual and doesn't listen to the safe word, and betrays his best friend makes it likely you would hate him at 1st and not get the point that it was the idea. Anakin became a bad guy they had to show it somehow and make it clear you shouldn't like him. Shame the writing wasn't up to par and filled with sand. Though lines like that just feel so bad they're good these days. The Star Wars Holiday Special shows if they were really bad they'd stay bad and hated at least.
Eh, people have always liked Anakin once they brushed past the horrible dialogue and so-so directing. Especially when the The Clone Wars started showing his emotional side.
Man threw hands with some banker over the fear of losing Padme or Padme getting hurt.
Anakin had a well conceived character arc that was let down by the terrible script and appalling directing - the sequels haven't turned him into a beloved character (that's impossible at this point) but appreciation for what was essentially the core overarching story of the prequel trilogy is more widespread and less inflammatory than it used to be.
I always loved Revenge of the Sith. I was neutral toward ep. 1 and 2 but never hated them.
It's true what the first guy says. The prequels are being re-evaluated by so many people because the sequel trilogy is such shit. At least something good came from that absolute train wreck.
i think the clone wars helped with him getting more love also he gets more interesting when darth Vader is brought up
Drinker, for some reason, the analysis offered in this video has stuck in my mind over time and I've found myself reflecting on some of the points you made. I find that description helps people conceive of and see things that they could not before. Your very apt descriptions gave me new appreciation for the Anakin character and story arc. Just got through watching the video for a second (or third) time. If UA-cam had a "Second Like" button, I'da smashed it.
In Episode I, arguably. He’s introduced as the legendary chosen one, wins races against people who by all accounts should be better than him, and takes out that droidship all alone. However, even here his successes are tempered by the fact that he still doesn’t get everything his way. His mother isn’t freed and the Jedi don’t particularly like or trust him.
As for the rest of the films, only a literal idiot would think he’s a mary sue. Literally everything that can go wrong for him goes wrong. He lost duels, lost limbs, lost his mother, lost his wife, got burnt to a crisp and put in eternal life support, thought his kids were dead, discovered they were alive and hated his guts, then finally died - after 20 years of a hellish life, somewhat redeemed.
Anakin isn’t a mary sue. He’s the most tragic character in fiction of all time.
At least him fighting a star fighter makes slightly more sense than flying the falcon. At least the kid had some pod racing experience
Anakin’s best claim to Mary Sue-ness is having more midiclorians than Yoda.
Not that the midiclorians were the best idea George ever had... but they do explain the Force in a sci-fi way rather than in a religious way, which is an improvement of sorts.
Also about the podrace, Anakin admitted to Padme before the race that he had never FINISHED a race before, nevermind winning one. So even then it's not really like Rey to where the first time she pilots the Falcon she masters flying it.
@@timonsolus Midichlorians were basically meant to be conduits for the Force. Having more of them simply meant a better sensitivity to the Force. The Whills were intended to be custodians of the Force who can control the Force on a large scale through the midichlorians, effectively operating as the "will" of the Force and are part of the hidden Gods of the Star Wars universe. The whole Chosen One thing coming about because of a threat to the Force. Which was basically Palpatine and Plaugeis trying to take control of the Force themselves, through the midichlorians, to use it for their own purposes which would throw life itself out of balance.
Conceptually even in a Lucas Sequel Trilogy Palpatine could have returned... as a Dark Side Force Wraith, sustained solely on hatred and the fear of him by the galactic community. Though Lucas would have had Force Ghost Anakin be brought into a position to truly destroy Force Wraith Palpatine and complete the Chosen One prophecy by eliminating the closest thing to a Sith ascending to become sort of like an Evil God.
Well he didn't pound his mom and kill his dad like Oedipus Rex.
Anakin is the antithesis of a Mary Sue. Literally everything goes wrong for him even with all his training and abilities.
He was hardly given anything but lost everything.
Please send this video to the person who left that Twitter comment.
E
I was going to but decided to read the comments to see if someone else already did.
Wouldn't wanna dogpile them as it would most likely just end with them ignoring the message.
@@F1rstWorldNomaD No need to worry about that, they will ignore the message regardless and go back to their circlejerk bubbles after blocking you.
@@memetu1606 you tried?
@@outgoingblur I have tried before and came to the conclusion that there is no point in arguing about anything on Twitter or Reddit. No one ever argues in good faith, it's either a snarky remark completely ignoring the point or a block/downvote or some ad hominem meme picture that basically says you are unattractive, at least in my imagination so your argument is invalid.
Taken as a slave from birth. Doesn’t know dad. Mom dies. Loses love of his life through his own mistakes. Gets cut apart by his only father figure and burned so badly he could no longer speak or breathe on his own.
He’s a Mary Sue the way I’m a tragic and brilliant antagonist.
The story of Anakin Skywalker is one if the greatest tragedies ever told. When you pair it with his journey with Ahsoka in Clone Wars it makes him even more relatable.
I sure relate to killing kids and women:D
Ah but have you heard the tragedy of Darth plagus the wise
@@ad-skyobsidion4267 I've heard bits and pieces but never the full story.
Maybe not relatable but yeah
@@corydawodu. NO, TCW RUIN ANAKIN, HE PASSED FROM A FLAWFUL & RELATABLE GUY TO A GENERIC UNIDEMNSIONAL HERO, JUST FOR MAKE AHSOKA GREATER
*LEGENDS & PREQUELS>>>>TCW & DISNEY*
Anakin is a mental wreck, he went trough so many emotional challenges while Rey got everything served on a silver platter and never faced any challenges
AND SHE ENDED UP TAKING HIS DESTINY FROM HIM. SHE TOOK WHAT WAS HIS.
@@androm3da_182
She even buried his lightsaber in sand and stole his name
Rey is a scavenger girl abandoned by her parents on a desert planet who should be absolutely fucked up mentally, but somehow she's your average millennial who has the personality of a college student on her way to get a latte at Starbucks. One of the things most bothersome about her is the fact that the writers put absolutely ZERO thought into what kind of person she SHOULD be based on her life experiences.
palpatine and snoke just force pulled her. She kept searching for her parents and found out her grandfather was the galaxy's evil dictator.
@@radstaz2029 Force pulls her? That’s supposed to be a hardship or trial?
Yeah she never gets to see her parents but this barely affects her character in anyway other than positive apparently, as her morality is just unbending and is emotionally unaffected in a way that actually leads to her struggling at any point other than scavenging to get food. As soon as the “silver spoon” lands in her lap, it’s straight shot to the top from there and that’s all as an audience we get to see and removes any real attachment we could had with her.
Waahh Grandpa issues, what is she, Boruto’s third cousin?
"Always wins at everything"
*Fade In to Anakin's fucking arm getting chopped off*
twice
repeatedely
He lost both arms, both legs, and his hair. How does one think that that's a victory?
@@robbieaulia6462 You see, he knew that a technologically enhanced arm would be stronger than his normal arm, so he intentionally lost to Dooku to test his hypothesis. Once he saw it worked, he challenged Obi-Wan and once again lost intentionally so he could get all his limbs replaced. It was all part of his master plan.
@@crowbar_the_rogue I say this, the man’s nothing if not committed
Anakin is an example of how good but troubled people can be driven to great violence without the right level of support and with the righ amount of influence from the objectively evil. He's more a cautionary tale against radicalism by ISIS than a Mary Sue
I wouldn't even call Palpatine objectively evil. He was wrong.... but so are the jedi.
The man literally got his ass handed to him TWICE in the prequels, the first time costing him his hand, the other literally leaving him a crippled, disabled man that had to become a cyborg to survive. You didn't see Rey taking baths in lava or getting a hand severed, did you?
Finn took more damage in 1 fight scene than Rey did the entire trilogy
Rey probably bathes in lava daily and is unaffected by it, based on her power levels
Lol he got his ass handed to him twice in one fight (vs Dooku in AotC)
That’s because you aren’t allowed to have violence against wammen because equality. 😄
Lava baths. Not even once.
Anakin was trained over three films. Rey could do everything within one hour of her first movie.
Not to mention those three films took place over the span of 13 years, the sequels took place over a few months.
@@KRYMauL And only months because there was a little bit of a time difference between 8 & 9 beyond the like like maybe a week the other 2 movies took place on.
Even then, 2 out of 3 of the sequel movies took place over the course of a day or 2 each. The timeline of events in the sequels is really wonky...
@@KRYMauL Also Anakin is force Jesus, he was immaculately conceived by the force. He is the strongest with the force a person can possibly be.
@@sttate What's your point?
@@KRYMauL The point being he is literally the most gifted person in the universe and is still drastically more flawed than Rey.
"Have you ever heard of the Tragedy of Darth Kathleen?"
"No."
"I thought not. Not a story Disney would tell you. It was said that Darth Kathleen was so powerful she could use the Force to manipulate the weak-willed SJWs into believing that she was creating a new life for Woe-Men. She was so strong with the Dark Side that she could even keep funds going into a dead project for years after it failed."
"She could actually save dying franchises???"
"The Dark Side of Hollywood is pathway to abilities that some consider to be... unnatural."
"What happened to her?"
"She became so powerful the only thing she feared was losing that power. Which eventually, of course, she did. Unfortunately, she destroyed a beloved franchise and alienated almost the entire fanbase before her employer wizened up and terminated her. Its ironic.. she could keep funding a dead franchise but not keep the fans from hating her false morals."
"Is it possible to learn this power?"
"Not from anyone talented."
@Omar De Sa 1COMODIN9 Thank you, thank you. :)
I hope one day Lucasfilm makes a villain based on Kathleen Kennedy 😂
Cesar Sosa members of the trade federation were based on politicians he didn’t like, so if the rumours of Lucas coming back in a consultative role might make it possible.
Considering how much their shareholders are ‘hurting’, I’d say she hasn’t got much of a future there
I read this in Palpatine's voice and it made it even better.
I had no idea. I mean, I heard the legends but I never thought they were true.... But it is true. I see it here before me on my screen with my very own eyes.
You really can win the internet.
You, the one they call Meta Mage, are no mere mortal. You are a God among insects.