cassette tapes are memory emotional thing from growing up for me so I will always buy a tape if it appeals to me - - but my main thing is Vinyl and I do enjoy CDs as great sounding portable solution - and 8 track leer jet tapes ect I like just because they are so weird and you can get some real nice sound out of them - it's a fun format for me was before my time really but I do remember them when I was like 4 years old in the semi-trucks my uncle had.
@@SPINNINGMYWHEELS777You are damned lucky not only to have/find an 8-Trap Flayer that actually works (never mind work: properly😮💨), but to find ANY tapes that actually still play! I dabbled with 8-Trash at least 15 years ago; my older brother gave me his entire collection of some 70 tapes, & I miraculously scored a 1970-ish Roberts (Akai...😏) premium machine that not only had FFWD (which plenty of the mostly HORRID 8-Crap machines don't even have; AND ⏪ rewinding a tape is simply NOT POSSIBLE, due to the IDIOTIC construction & nature of the format's "endless loop" cassettes); my chunky high-zoot machine even could ⏺️ RECORD!😲😯😮🤯 Well, for all the good THAT did me! I think 80% of those tapes were no longer playable, despite clean & dry storage throughout their entire 30-odd year lives. No small number of them just let go of their splices during their first playback in over 10 years. Never mind the ones that spilled tape all over the inside of the machine when they wrapped themselves around the (CLEAN!😑) capstan & pinch roller; or the ones that just jammed up & seized, trying their level-best to shred the belts & burn out the motor in my "ultimate" quality Roberts home player/recorder ⏺️.🧐 Then, of the dozen or so that still could (kinda. Sorta.) "play", ¾ of those had SUCKY music; leaving a whopping 3 or 4 cartridges left that were of any interest in listening to. And amongst that pathetic little stack of tapes, NONE of them played without the truly obnoxiously mind-bending amount of WOwÖW!🤪 & flututututter 🤪🫨😵💫🤮 that the format is renowned for. And from ALL my recollections of the many & varied machines that I have heard since I was a little kid, even when the machines & tapes were brand new!🤧🫤 Sure, the tape speed is double that of compact cassette. But despite the doubled tape width from ⅛" to ¼", those 8 tracks meant that the actual track width was identical to that of compact cassette. AND there was no high-bias tape formulations ever developed for the format; all 8-Crap tapes were made of THE cheapest & dreariest Ferric Oxide formulations that the RIPOFF record companies could find to stuff into THE cheapest & therefore crappiest housings humanly possible to make! I rememberbember the VERY RARE odd find of "blank" cartridges (probablabedly a mere BUY IT NOW! $5000 each from a reputable dumpster-diving Shyster I MEAN! honest🤥, hard-working 🤥 eBay vendor👹 right now!) that at least would have been of *somewhat* better quality than the MISERABLE pre-recorded GARBAGE 🗑️that UTTERLY dominated the 8-Crap market. So it became abundantly clear to me, & therefore this is my warning to any of you thinking: "This ought to be a fun, easy, cheap, & KÜHL! format for me to get into!"; 8-Trash tapes have ZERO archival properties (just like the fantasy of Open-Reel tapes, which have ALSO shown themselves to be bio-degradable, with a half-life of maybe 15 years. MAYBE.). A tape that still plays today (with the typical hissy wobbliness of some drunken Piss-Tank hand-cranking your capstan for you!) will quite likely NOT play for you the next time you try it even a year later. I'm personally amazed BEYOND BELIEF that there exists even a single "playable"🤪🫨🤪🫨🤪😵💫 cartridge left in existence in the entire world today! As for somebody, ANYBODY! claiming to enjoy the sound of 8-Trash cartridges alongside REAL High Fidelity formats from Compact Cassette, to Beta or VHS Hi-Fi, to LP, to Seedy, to Streaming (...down your leg)... Really? REALLY??? 😲😯😮😱
I know people like to argue formats and specs but theres one thing to me that stands out with vinyl.. It activates more sense's meaning ( ears, you listen / touch, you open the record, clean the record, drop the needle, memory's ).. Nobody will say " Remember when we listened to that MP3, but I have countless memories with records.. Regardless for a format so old it still sounds damn good and like cap coupled amps, Sometimes the imperfections add character and soul to the experience. I love both, Sometimes im lazy and ill stream ( think fast food ), Sometimes I want that sit down steak dinner ( thats vinyl ).
analog has second order harmonics that digital doesn't , and these underlying distortions are what the ear uses to determine aspects of sound, like motion , distance , all kinds of stuff. Digital has different underlying distortions, which some say the ear doesn't process as well, since they are not found in nature. To each his own, they all work.
I’m a vinyl fanatic but I can assure you that plenty of people have said “remember when we were on that road trip listing to xxxx” and it was streaming. We can love physical formats and still not kid ourselves.
@@HoneyWindbuttonI was being a little sarcastic, Vinyl just touches on more of the senses vs streaming.. You hold it / hear it / drop the needle etc.. Sit down steak dinner vs the drive thru lol both are food.
Not to b forgotten is chilling out at thrift shops antique shops an record stores and maybe discovering a new type of music in an album that has the inner sleeve and NO scratches. Also more going on, taking the time to clean records and the artwork on album covers...
Hey now - my first record was "Puff the Magic Dragon" and it sounded so wonderful to my 6 (7?) year old ears, on my suitcase player that I played it over and over. And over and over. I did actually wear that poor 45 out and mom about pulled her hair out because I wouldn't stop playing it. Those were the days. :)
I bought an Empire table in 1974 and it is still my daily driver. After many belts and cartridges it still performs splendidly. Talk about built to last.
Empire made one of the best looking turntables. Built like a tank, it looked like A neighbor of mine had one in the 1970s. Today, he's strictly a streaming guy.
I own a Sansui SR-525 direct drive that my dad bought new in 1974/1975. It has an upgraded ADC VLM Mk 2 cartridge (because in 1985 we moved and as my dad was carrying the 525 into our new house he dropped it on the driveway). There's a chunk out of the rear left corner of the dust cover and he destroyed the original cartridge. His loss is now my gain as he went out asap and purchased the ADC cartridge. I've been pondering delving into an upgrade but I'm still in the research stage of it.😅😅😅
For me, easily, the biggest variable is the stylus itself. New, worn, in between, they all sound different. I love switching between different headshells and cartridges just to see how they sound.
it's half of the equation 100% after proper speed control stability lack of resonance clean circuit. A high quality stylus as it wears doesn't have a different sound it's just a lower dB was it gets closer to the pipe - until the diamond completely loses the shape then the sound does change not just a drop in dB.
I enjoy things differently. I concentrate my money on one cartridge and don't switch, feeling that no matter how many cartridges I might own, one will still be best overall, so spend on only the best cartridge I can afford, since they are consumable, and all use is wear.
@@SPINNINGMYWHEELS777The output of a cartridge does NOT decrease as the stylus wears. The output "level" doesn't change at all. But the quality of that output does!
Decide if you want a manual, semi-automatic, automatic turntable, or linear tracker? Then do you want direct drive, rim drive, or belt drive? Then find a nicely taken care of table from the late 70s or 80s from Pioneer, Technics, Dual or any big name that meets the above criteria. Then get a decent cartridge and stylus and enjoy. Don't overthink it.
perfect advice. Although condition is everything with any used article, turntables, especially the better ones, are so simple , it makes sense to invest in used higher quality than what the same money will buy new, given a modicum of care, and an in person inspection, before pulling the trigger on used stuff.
My best friend gifted me suitcase table for Xmas…I loved it. Purchased my favorite artist, Radiohead, tool…after a few months of owning it I started to notice how badly damaged/ scratched my records got from the table….it took me a few years but I purchased a technics 1200g table and have never looked back. Love it.
You're spot on. I had cheap turntables when I was younger that I used to tape nickels on top of the headshell so my records wouldn't skip. All those records are basically ruined. Ive had many incarations throughout the years and learned as I went along. I currently have a Throens TD160 for the last 6 years that was modified by Vinyl Nirvana. It's been my favorite turntable for the past 6 years and I'm extreamly happy with it. This hobby has many who will look down their noses at whatever equipment you have, My Thorens is a Crosley to them. I always wonder if they use that mentallity in all their purchasing decisions. Like what caliber of car do they own? What brands of clothes do they wear? Lastly, the Vinyl vs Digital debate is getting old. Both have their pros and cons. I personally use all formats but mostly stream because it sounds excellent and it's easy. I put albums on when I feel like reliving the days of my youth but this time I'm more educated with better sounding gear.
I love your passion for turntables. You have become my favorite audio channel as of late. Keep up the good work. Cant wait to go to your store in person someday.
A guy/a store that isn't interested and especially NOT knowledgeable about $2000+ turntables; who doesn't stock any, has no future plans to, & can't see the point to buying one DOES NOT have a "passion" for turntables. OR the highest quality of Audio, PERIOD. Kevin knows what he knows; & that's basically that he likes what he knows, as opposed to actually knowing what he likes...and also as opposed to knowing what's actually good or great sounding. If "good enough" is what you're looking for, or you just plain can't hear any difference between say, a pair of Klipsch Heresy's & Final (brand) electrostatic speakers, then you're watching the right channel & listening to the right guy to help you save your money!🤗
Most people don't have the space or the desire to have more than one turntable (or any other component) at a time, but some have two or more models of everything (as do I) and use what fits a particular situation. I like having multiple systems in different parts of my domicile.
I started with fully manual Thorens in the 1970’s. I didn’t want a cheap unit that would damage my lp’s. Moved to a semi automatic Thorens in the 80’s because I was tired of getting up off the couch at the end of the record. The motor in that unit died a couple of years ago and I’m now using a fully automatic, 80’s ?, Toshiba that I picked up at a yard sale for $100. Stuck in my old Shure v15. The thing sounds great. I don’t know if it’s better or worse though the isolation is far superior to my old Thorens. I’m sure an audiophile would say it’s a downgrade but I like the convenience of the automatic and after working a lifetime in heavy construction I’m positive these old ears can’t tell the difference anyway.
I got a flag ship sanyo table that I bought it over a pioneer table while in the army many years ago., and hell yes ,its still running well. That was in 1979,, just because they made most of the component electronics needed to madd theirs ,,still working today. Its black ,heavy quartz driven and nice with a moving coil on it
It was time for me this year. Back in the spring I upgraded from a Pro-Ject Elemental USB which I used for 9 years, to a Pro-Ject Debut Pro with Phono Box S2 Ultra phono stage and a 2M Blue stylus. Couldn’t be happier with the upgrade!
Great advice, and I agree that the $200-$500 price level is truly the starting point. I'm glad I went that route because it prepared me for what I have now. Cheers!
When it comes to turntables, unless you’re a millionaire option number one, get a really good late 1970s maybe early 1980s high-quality deck from the day that has been well. Looked after serviced and working chosen wisely that will be better or worst equivalent to a new £600 to £700 deck today. The problem is with medium priced record decks are made today they are trying to reinvent the wheel. It’s a very astronomically high price and not doing a very good job of it. Aesthetically pleasing to look at anything new mechanically no not at all, like I say, classic deck, that’s been maintained serviced and looked after or sound as good as a medium priced modern new deck and the brand-new so-called entry level decks made by project and so on. They are no better than a £100 antique deck from the 1970s, that has been looked after no better at all. put a modern cartridge on one of them antique decks. This has been looked after with good speed controlyou winning all the way
I might add to be concerned about old electronics . It might be better, depending on condition to get as basic as possible, a motor, a platter, and a manual arm.
I agree that the magical tracking of a microscopic needle in the grove of vinyl provides a singular performance-playback-reproduction that is altered each time the recording is played. My Gerrard DD455/Audiotechnica workhorse from 1978 still satisfies.
My two Dual turntables, 1219 and 701, were serviced, with aftermarket dust covers and oem Shure cartridge and stylus. Love the tactile feel, robust construction, and fully automatic function. They check all my boxes... great video!🎉
I have a Technics SL-7 that I fished a cord from a dumpster and it was on the other end ...much to my surprise and delight. I'm using it now will a Stanton 680ee P-mount cartridge. I still like that 680/681 moving iron magical sound stage. My other table a Technics SL-D2 (that will be another dumpster find SL-1200 mark II...it's needs bearing work in the gimbal that I have time for now) with a Stanton 680ee mounted. Using the same genuine low mileage D680 stylus I have a direct comparison. So there is an audible difference. Partly because of the low mass tone arm in the SL-7 getting the most out if the high compliance the 680ee has to offer and it does track the up and down (small warps) better. That's really very slight not always noticeable. What is very noticeable is that last track on a LP were the grove is compressed and tracking at a much lower velocity. So what is noticeable is that that track doesn't have the typical sound degradation experienced there. That mastering engineers kwik its a thing so they have to deal with it in the process. Anyway it's still there and audible. Well that's certainly true for the pivoting tone arm . So here is the difference....I don't notice it with the SL-7. I believe the combination of the grove architecture and the elliptical stylus not tracking perfectly at the tangent is what is actually audible. Squaring up the stylus in that section clearly and significantly reduced it too not noticeable like the engineer intended. I got really lucky that SL-7 is working well and properly moving the tone arm with the tiny steps it's supposed to do. Yeah it just needed new RCA plugs because the cord was tweaked at the ends. That SL-1200 well that will be eventually be equipped with a Stanton 680el/al tracking closer to 4 grams that will work out very nicely for that heavy tone arm as I already know. I just need to find a good replacement stylus for the EL Ii that I have almost used up ,,,l hope there's enough life to keep it for a reference I really liked the sound. It was pretty close to the Steriohedron but a little different in a good way for many of my records and not so good for many others..
@@stevengagnon4777You're definitely a guy NOT looking to upgrade their "purchases"; you're a guy looking to upgrade their dumpster-diving skills in order to spend no money at all. Happy trails!
I have recently purchased a technics s l1210 mk 2 witch I fitted with a Ortofon m2 cart yes it’s old now but it’s in perfect working condition I have had one of these on my wish list since I was in my teens I’m 63 now. It’s a keeper I love it, one day when funds allow m2 black 😎🇬🇧
Good interesting video , I spoiled myself & have 3 go to turntables in my systems at the moment , a B&O Beogram 4002 , Thorens TD125 MkII & a Denon DP-1250 , both with SME arms , all obtained here in Kona Hawaii for very little $'s , I managed to repair all 3 & they do bring me great joy . Keep up the varied , interesting & thought provoking videos .
You remind me of one of my uncles, he can say the most hilarious things with a straight face, even when everyone is busting a gut rolling on the floor he doesn't even flinch or crack a smile. Fuzz bunnys are definitely some creatures to watch for though, I have blown a few out from the stylus myself. I like your channel, good job!
As usual, great discussion and very valid points for sure. The portable record players are great for kids. That's how I started, used to take my portable record player with my little record case of 45's to my friend's houses and even to school sometimes when they allowed it. But then we all grow up and want better . I've had the same Technics semi-auto turntable with it's Audio-Technica cartridge since I was a teenager, and 45 years later I'm still happy with it, the only thing I've had to do over the years is replace the belts and cartridges. I'll never buy a $2,000 turntable, because at this stage in my life, my hearing wouldn't be able to tell the difference..lol
@@francescotenti193plenty of hundred dollar Technics belt drives were still sold after they started selling direct drive turntable. Before that they were all belt drive.
My hat is off to you for giving up some $$$ as u know u can get much better music from the same record on a real Tt, whose stylus is much more kind to records than the suitcase jobs. I love ur ethics for this GREAT hobby.
There are so many different schools of thought about "what should I upgrade first?" Lots of folks will say it's your speakers. Others will tell you your amplifier is the heart of your system. I've found validity in all of those different views. For me, the route I chose was to upgrade my source (turntable) and phono-pre five or six years ago. I will probably never forget that experience of sitting there listening to my music through my Klipsch Chorus II's - they never sounded better! My rig has changed a lot since then. I upgraded the phono pre, but the turntable I bought is a keeper. Out of all the gear that's been in and out of my system, it's been that, sonically speaking, made the biggest difference.
Yup….its almost a magic trick that a vinyl record works let alone sound as good as it does. The technology is over a century old and still amazing? That’s really kinda nuts…lol I’ve got multiple very nice turntables, but I prefer my SL-1200 M3D with many KAB upgrades and modifications. I’m running a Tavish preamp. A friend of mine bought a GR that I borrowed to compare them. After listening to the same records using the same cartridge and set up exactly the same for about a week, I actually ended up preferring my M3D. I won’t get into the details, but it was a matter of different vs better. There was no clear winner. That said, I do believe that if someone is looking for a really nice turntable and have the budget, the GR is a fantastic deck. I’d love to eventually hear the G or GAE, but I’m fine with my system right now. There’s a lot of nice turntables out there for every budget, and digging for records rather than thinking what’s wrong with my system is nice. It is a great feeling to get rid of “upgraditis”, and putting a system together with good synergy can take a long time and be fun, but once you’re there, it’s worth it.
I bought a ProJect Essential 3 from the local NPR station at a record show 2 years ago. It was nearly new in the box. I really like it but I wish it weighed more. My guess is I'll use it for a couple more years and then step up to a higher-tier vintage table or a wood plinth VPI. I love the way the latter looks!
The suitcase record players are for people who are trying out vinyl. If you don't have alot of money and want to give it a try, the good news is if you like it on the suitcase, you are going to love it with real gear. If you didn't like it, and by that I mean the sound was not what you wanted, good news again, your right Kevin, they are toys and again real gear is going to be revelatory. Thank you. Your positive stance and informativeness on vintage and vinyl makes your videos good watches.
To me the philosophy of a simpler as possible turntable, highly customizable with interchangeable tonearm and with an high chance to fix it in case of damage of any components leads me to Thorens TD 160 then I’ve found a TD 125 MKII and now I think I’m satisfied with a TD 124 MKI
Sometimes, they use another Tonearm/cartridge setup for different type of music, and sometimes, it's not a turntable, it's a master cutting bench and they use the regular Tonearm to verify the quality of the cutting they've just done. But most often, it's the first case. I hope it answer your question. English isn't my language, sorry for the bad grammar.
After my SL-5 linear tracking turntable died earlier this year I bought my first manual turntable, a Rega P2 with an upgraded AT-VM540ML. Recently I added a Fono Mk5...game changer. I can't afford to upgrade anymore for quite some time, but for now I'm quite happy.
I've settled on 2 turntables that I use. I am a Pioneer fan so #1 is the Pioneer PL-707. #2 is a Technics. I started out with the SL-1200MK2 but, I'm lazy and hated that it was not automatic. I found the SL-1600MK2 full automatic. They seem to do fine for me for the last 10 years. I have a Pioneer PL-530 on the bench. It needs work. One day I will get to it. I like your videos. Cool stuff. Thanks.
Get a used one with a good track record (no pun intended). Any of the Musical Surroundings Phenomena series are decent. Cambridge Audio are also decent, or if the budget is really tight a ART DJPre2. Big budget, Parasound JC3 (Plus or Junior).
I have a Dual 701 that needs a re-cap, looking forward to when I finally get to play it. I do find Duals to be very “plasticky,” but people love them. Been using a dumpster dive Yamaha yp-d3 for the last few years, no complaints😉
They do. It also dépend on the cartridge you have on it. In my knowledge, there's not many caps in these turntable, maybe it's the wires or a bad ground. But yeah if you compare to more modern stuff, the dual tend to be limited. There's a lot of hype around the brand, but compared with a good Thorens 125 or 160, or a technics SL-1200/ SL-1200 MK2, the later tend to sound better, if you have a good cartridge of course.
As usual, well done Kevin. Been on that lifetime journey myself. I’m currently at level three with my Pro-Ject X Pression 3, Speed box and Tube Box S2, Ortofon 2M Bronze. That said, for my vintage based system in the man cave, I recently bought the AT LP-120XUSB. I did upgrade the stylus. Gotta say, it’s a darned good turntable for short money. Sounds fantastic.
@@MarvinHartmann452 The 2M Red can sound remarkably better when used with an Origin Live Cartridge Enabler, at less than £30- UK and with the option to return for a full refund no questions asked, when purchased direct from Origin Live. I have recommended it to three or four of my subscribers and none of them have returned it, it's that good with the 2M Red! I have one fitted to a 2M Blue and a Goldring 1042 on a couple of my Rega turntables.I must add I have no connection to Origin Live, I just love some of their products. Happy Listening and best wishes to all, from Scotland. Jim🏴🙂
Before I purchased my Tube Box S2 I researched compatibility with my cartridge. The Tube box was the best fit. Matching preamp to cartridge seems to be the best strategy.
When I was a little kid I spent hours playing 7-inch 45 rpm singles on my red and black Sears Silvertone single-speaker record player, staring at the needle riding in the grooves and marveling at how cool that was. I never stopped doing that -- except for a long dry spell in the CD era when I didn't have an active turntable. Now my mind is blown by all the different stylus types (conical, elliptical, microlinear, shibata, nude-mount...) and cartridge technologies (moving magnet, moving coil, fixed coil, moving iron...). Don't make me think about tonearm gimbals or my head will explode. I have several turntables (mostly vintage Thorens, Technics, Miracord, Philips, Pioneer, and new-ish Fluance, Music Hall, Audio-Technica, Marantz) which I like to swap out occasionally (along with their cartridges) just for the sake of novelty. Even the best sound in the world (digital or analog) can get tiresome after a while because you get used to it and don't really hear it the way you did when it was new to you. That's how our senses (and brains) work. Otherwise we'd all just collapse from overstimulation. And, of course, there's no such thing as The Absolute Sound (sorry, British audiophiles!) -- only what sounds good to you at a particular moment with a particular recording in a particular format on a particular set-up in a particular room. I don't know if LPs (with all their surface noise, necessary EQ, and compression to keep the needle from jumping out of the grooves) can seriously be considered "audiophile" and I don't really care. Sometimes it sounds really, really good to me. So does a good DAC.
I really enjoy your take on this hobby. I currently stream most of my music, but ive been thinking about dipping my toe into vinyl . Im really leaning towards U-Turn. Not trying to start a huge debate, but i like the fact they are made in the US.
I have different vintage record players. Its all on what your looking for and price point and keep in mind your room as how your setup will run. Where my setup works for me it maynot work for you.
@@semperfi-1918 I also prefer to support my native economy, but my buying criteria is expanded to places where I know the people involved in my for pleasure product have good wages and working conditions. No possibility of slave or oppressed labor, for one thing.
I have absolutely no need for a new turntable, as I love my TEAC TN-5BB which I've had for less than a full year. But I've always been enamored by the Technics SL-1200 series, and I'm considering a GR or GR2. I didn't get one at the time because I wanted the auto lift/stop feature, plus they really weren't available with the supply chain fiasco. I will keep my TEAC no matter what, and I'm just trying to figure out how I justify the purchase to my wife lol.
@@defcreator187 It's too bad Technics doesn't still make a full auto version. I'm staying away from any vintage turntables although I do still have my old Dual CS5000 which still works. The old Japanese units were some of the best looking ever made I think.
I have a Fluance RT85 with a 2M Blue cart. Love it and I think you are probably right about that sweet spot. I don't know if I really need an upgrade for a long time. I think since I am at that $500 area...I dunno if I would think about upgrading unless I was going full on and switching to a Moving Coil cart. Maybe someday! Great video!
Dude, I have a fully tricked out Fluance RT85. IF you should decide that you want to upgrade, here's the kit list to give you amazing sound quality and a dead silent background. - Get an Ortofon 2M Bronze ASAP. This is 1 of the 2 big difference makers on this journey. I know it's pricey. Get a pre-owned one if you have to. Just. Get One. Pre-owned will set ya back about $325-$350. Look for demo carts from places like Audio Advisor. - Get the Pro-Ject Tube Box S2 phono preamp. This is pricey, but the vacuum tubes really do got their own thang goin'. ...and this could be and WILL BE an endgame phono preamp for a lot of folks. - Get a "Chi-Fi" linear power supply unit for the turntable AND the phono preamp. This is the 2nd huge difference maker on this journey. There are dual output options on Ebay for around $250-$275 shipped (You'll need a dual 18v model). There are sellers w/ thousands of sales & 97% or better positive feedback who specialize in linear power supplies & "DIY" stuff of that nature. This will leave you with a killer sounding phono stage. If you have good power & speakers there ain't no way you'll be disappointed w/ this getup. If you could come stand in the middle of my listening room I'm sure you'd agree. Anyway, this is still a lot of $$$, but it's doable. Especially if you have a job & side hustle and income is stable. ...and even though it is still expensive by most ppl's standards, this upgrade path is dirt cheap in comparison to the next "tier" of turntables/cartridges/phonon preamps. You'd probably have to spend $3,500 to $4,000 to "out-do" the Fluance RT85/Ortofon 2M Bronze/Pro-Ject Tube Box S2 & linear power supply setup I'm suggesting here...
Love that you posted such a detailed set up! Thank you! I saved it so when I do upgrade I have it as reference. I do have a tube phono pre amp, but it's a cheaper one more in the $100 range. My speakers are vintage mid range Sony speakers (in the $200 - $300 area), they sound good, but may be the next thing I upgrade. Receiver is a mid range pioneer.. in the $400 area. I figure next year I will start looking into some better speakers and the cartridge you mentioned would be my upgrade if I decide to do it. I don't know much about power supply's, but I want to do more research and understand it better so I am not blind buying something. thanks again!@@dizzle1119
Even when you have all the gear, the turntable, cartridge and line contact stylus, without the right set up you may have well not have bothered. Cartridge and stylus set up is critical. It can take time, and listening..It's worth it!
I've had a forever turntable since 1990. The stylus / cart is what is the primary variable to open up the beauty based on the stability and accuracy of the player itself.
I have always owned Duals since 1980. I had a GE phonograph and BSR earlier. But, listening to my Dads Dual since 1971, I always wanted a Dual. My first a used 1216, then a 506, and later other models. I now Have my Dads 1215S, another 1215S, two 1216s,1218, 1225, 1226, 1229, and two 506s. Yes, I have a Victrola all in one. I bought it for the CD burner. The turntable played maybe 5 records and is now slower than 16 speed. I patch a Dual into it and burns a nice CD for the car. No upgrades needed unless I can find a nice CD burner.
Another great video Kevin! Only thing missing on the suitcase turntables was the penny taped to it so it didn’t skip…lol I’m ready to move up from micro seki dd25 to Linn lp12 Loving the journey of rediscovering vinyl and vintage sound.
I guarantee you are going to be delighted with your upgrade! Just make sure it’s set up by someone who knows how to do this, there are plenty of clowns out there who bolt on all sorts of junk on them.
I have a turntable that gets bad remarks on threads BIC 912C, they get no love from the high end types with jokes added and it was made in 1979 ..I got it used and cheap 40 usd many years back in 2007 08 ish , I rewired the tone arm ,put a new Shure cartidgege on it, set tracking near 1.5 grams , the shaft and bearing had old thick factory grease in it I replaced that with new grease. I could never get the pitch quite right and the belt was not the issue but liked the sound I was getting from it and Dual Parts gut on Ebay told be to lube the motor shaft with 30 W motor oil an still the pitch was an issue .. . I had put it away for a long time in favour of a direct drive Sansui ..Two months back I wanted to hear it again and pitch still was the problem and it hit me to use some oil I have for my mower engine 100 percent synthetic motor oil Amsoil in place of the grease and and wow ,it made so much difference. It can keep a sustained piano note in natural pitch just because of using the synth motor oil making it easier for the platter to turn with less stress over the thick grease that the motor had to struggle with and I get a real audiophile vibe from it now . I would put it up against anything new up to a 1000 usd table .
Good stuff. I have a Pioneer full auto 117 from about 1975. far as I know, still works fine. also a pretty new (discontinued ) Thorens 103. BUT I prefer Concert DVD be it Diana Krall, Paris. Anna Netrebko , LaTraviatta - both blue ray great vid / audio( including translations for opera ) or Grateful Dead movie ( 2 nd disc ). to me DVD is the only significant improvement in equipment since say 1975.
Excellent video 👍 Several years ago, my stepdaughter got a suitcase player, and I actually gave her some records from my collection 😳. Probably ruined the records, but l was happy to see her showing interest in old music . Cheers from Ontario, Canada 🇨🇦
This is my TT progression: 1- Garrad Changer... Spent hours listening to STACKED records and quadraphonic. 2- Sony DD auto return... Rock solid speed and big bass/drive/rhythm improvement over belt drive. 3- Fisher linear tracking... Full auto convenience, quartz drive, random access, skipping, full auto and some. 4- Ditched TT for CD... The dynamic range that CD offered TRUMPED records. Finally got rid of ticks and pops. No looking back... or so I thought. (4 point whatever since these are CD players) Numerous portables, Sony CD changer, Cal Audio Lab, Sonic Frontiers, etc. 5- Conrad Johnson SG3... Got bit by the Audiophile bug. Full manual fooling with spring suspension/VTA/alignment/damping/belt/ on and on. 6- Technics SL1300... Still want the full auto convenience and stepping back even further in time. Coming up 50 years and it is still one solid TT. Just wow... or is it not much wow and flutter? :) 7- What is next? Had lust for the Beograms... but no replacement parts or needles. Edit: Oh, I did have a portable TT at one time or another.... or did I. That is blotted from memory, LOL.
Absolutely 100% correct! Sorry but when someone tells me Crosley, I cringe that is a kids First TT, you can add around 200 bucks and have a Very Nice sounding TT. Just like anything once you start spending 5k plus you are not getting a good Sound Per Buck sound improvement but they Do have their Sonic Improvement all the way to the moon! But it Costs tons more to get it. Great advice on this Video.
Enjoy your channel and your personal views. You are clearly experienced & not negatively biased. You are doing God's work 😂. Happy Holidays and keep it up.
Generally, this is pretty good advice coming from someone who has been into Audio since 1972 and it’s gone through a lot of stuff. In my humble opinion to get good sound from a turntable compared to digital you need to spend at least $1000 and have a really good phono preamp behind it. That is one thing that he did not mention the phono preamp makes a difference . So let’s say you pick up a used techniques 1200 or thrones 125 and put on a cart that is between three and 600 bucks, Then you need some skill to set up the turntable and Align the cartridge, which is really tricky. Is it worth it? It all depends on what you’re looking for. I will say a good final set up will do things that additional set up will never do and vice versa. Remember it’s just a hobby and enjoy you use your ears and it’s all up at the music.
It's not that tricky to adjust if you have the protactor, and the correct specs for your particular cartridge / turntable/ tonearm. You just have to take the time to do it properly if you're not used to do it. The thing is, many vinyl records were recorded in digital format and put back in analog afterwards, so when it's the case, I think it's better to just have the CD. Digital recording started in the lates 70s or early 80s for many artists.
It's just not "that" tricky to set up a cartridge where it will magically make distortion on the records disappear. One doesn't need to spend a lot of money either to have top notch performance. I got top notch by selling all the LPs and turntable and investing in cds.
I stream, do CD'S and have a few turntables. Streaming is great, easy, no brainer, but also nothing is happening to engage you with making beautiful sound like from playing a well kept album. CD'S fall in between. My system, playing albums beats CD'S easily, and puts a good UltraHD Amazon track to shame in one way, but lacking in others. But records can be a great hobby, from setting up a turntable, cleaning records, stylus, equipment etc. and that all analog sound, going through tubes! I have invested a majority of my dollars to playing albums well. This includes about 4k on the table/cart, 2.5k on a phono preamp, about 7k on amplification and 4.5k on speakers (2.1). This is matched to reflect my main listening - 60's, 70's, 80's rock, alternative rock, modern rock and classic rock. Blues and jazz are starting to creep in. My system never fails to amaze me on what I hear now, tonality, separation, musicality and staging. I've recently retired, and wanted to drastically upgrade what I had for a system, figured I've got 10 good years of listening before my hearing suffers.
Good info. Although I gave my 40 year old Technics turntable to my son a few years ago (still going strong) I may get back to vinyl someday, but am fine with CD's and streaming as my hearing diminishes. You've already talked in other YT's about people's responses to remembering what a particular system/record/tape sounded like years ago. My hearing as a senior is gone above 8000 Hz which is below what I used to hear at 15,000 Hz so my own "dynamic range" has changed. I wonder how this human condition drives system architecture as we age.
The black table match my sansui au 999 system,, i still have the audio sickness bad ,,,grew up near fort dodge iowa now living in GA,out of the cold snow hibernation
I have 2 nice enough turntable, a Thorens TD-160 and a technics SL-1200 MK2, but in my opinion, a CD will always sound better. And yes, both have a good cartridge and they're both perfectly adjusted. A CD or a reel to reel will always sound better. Some people think they sound harsh or cold, but with a vinyl, there's so many things that can affect the sound, like the phono Pre-amp, the adjustment, Tonearm and cartridge, and most important, the record itself, you can have 4 édition of the same record, and they will sound very different from each other, I've tried 4 different éditions of led Zeppelin 2, even à so called audiophile one, and I thought my older red label Canadian édition was better than the newer one, also, many recording were done in digital format originally since the lates 70s/80s, and put back in analogue and vinyl format afterwards, so it's a downgrade from the original. It's good for some people, and I have many vinyl myself, but for me a cd sound better, less noisy, and more dynamic.
I say go to your local goodwill or thrift store and pickup a vintage turntable I have found several techniques aKai dual B&O Sony turntable that work great for $30 before you buy a suitcase I have two I got for gift I only use the cassette and Cd part of them never but a record under that stylus
Although I have adopted vinyl 100%, vinyl has to be stored carefully, cleaned regularly, take up a lot of space (versus alternatives), tend to have less music per side (15 minutes +/- whereas a CD may have 70 minutes of music on it). The case against vinyl is strong! Yet, it's where I am. And CDs can be bought very cheap, whereas vinyl is expensive! $30 in nice used CDs may be 50 to 100 albums, $30 in vinyl may be just one album. Sure, I buy a lot of thrift store vinyl at low prices, but the selection is limited and they often have serious condition issues. Streaming of course takes up zero space. On turntables I own several, all vintage, all good brands (no suitcase album eaters). I currently have Technics, Pioneer, Thorens, Dual and Gerrard tables. I am selling several of them. My two Pioneers are my "forever" turntables.
I had a lot of fun with an AR eb101 that served me well, and was still preforming as new when I upgraded after about about thirty years of almost daily use. I would recommend such a table to anyone buying used, because AC motors are frequency controlled by the line power, so don't need the speed controls that a DC motor requires for accuracy, adding complexity and cost.
Kev, U R the MAN, turning down profit in order that good records stay good and not ruined by suitcase players. I am getting the idea from..you That a turntable costing about a grand could yield a better sound. I have a Toshiba SR-A200 with a Stanton 681EEE cartridge would a Dual give a better sound. Could it be worth it?
My first was one of those GE Wildcats....I cringe to think I broke in my Pink Floyd Wish You Were Here on it! I now have a couple JVC QL 50s dd...the ones where you put your own tone arm on it. One is in use to archive vinyl to digital for customers, the other...on my bench in need of repair after 100s of hours of use, much of it wet playing. I don't have a TT for personal use, I still despise vinyl as much as I did in the 70s and 80s.
great overview on tables. Just a suggestion, you may want to include a second video on phono stages. The phono stages in most vintage receivers are ok but they were all built to a price point. They can be easily improved upon for not a lot of money. A few phono stages that come to mind are the Phonomena series 1, 2, or 3. The EAR phonobox clones from doukmall, and the Marantz 7 phono stage clones from zerozone. The output from any of these stand alone phono stages can be run into the aux input or a tape loop input on a vintage integrated or receiver. The version 1 of the phonomena can be found used for around 300. The EAR clone brand new is about 475.
You will not be sorry. I upgraded from an Audio Technica LP120XUSB to a Technics 1210GR, and I'm very happy. It was such a marked improvement in sound even though I'm using the same upgraded cartridge I was using on the AT. The 1200/1210GR2 makes some additional improvements, but the regular GR is fantastic (and $300 less).
@@dmnddog7417 thanks that's good to know as I've been back and forth as to whether it was really going to make a noticeable difference especially with the fact that I'm going to use the same Sumiko Amethyst cartridge
@@winstonmcgill6667 I think it has to do with the better resonance dampening on the Technics. My cartridge is an AT VM540ML, and the 1210GR provided a better platform for it to perform. I couldn't believe how much better it sounds.
Yeah, I want to try that cartridge, I've heard very good comments about it, I don't know if it would be a good upgrade from a ortofon 2m blue, I would want to try it on my technics SL-1200 MK2, if I buy it, I'll also try it on the Thorens TD-160 I have, it currently have a 2m blue on it. I would want to hear if there's a difference between these 2. I'm very curious about it.@@dmnddog7417
Great video Kevin, Thanks for making those speaker stands!!!!! I've wanted a pair for at least 6 years now and was not willing to pay what people were asking, until now! That's a fare price and a smart decision for a new product. I hope people buy the sh#t out of them for you. I just bought a pair.
I just got back into vinyl, I purchased a lp120xusb a couple months back and thought I like it, I was able to score a near mint sl1200 MKII for $325 and she has become my favorite. I'm running a vm95ml cartridge. I may look at a Ortofon 2m blue or red, but so far I'm enjoying the vm95ml
Love your channel and I'll stop in when I get to DSM! What's your opinion on the Marantz 1060 phono stage? I'm currently using that with a Fluance RT85. I may upgrade the TT to the sweet spot someday but I'd like to keep the amp. I'm also running the pre out into a Emotiva BasX.
Hello, these are the same phono stage that are used in many other marantz model. You can replace some electrolytic coupling capacitor with film ones, and if I remember correctly, there's a clipping adjustment on certain models, but if you replace the capacitor, you're not supposed to have to adujt it. Some also have tantalum capacitors on the input, I know they affect the sound, but some people prefer to keep them, some will replace them with electrolytic non polarised or film capacitor. But as it is, it do it's job and it's neutral. The rest of the pre-amp and amplifier usually do à good job. Vintage Marantz amplifier are usually very dynamic as opposed to let says à yamaha. I've rebuilt and repaired many vintage equipment and usually, that's my opinion on these. I'm a electronic technician with 40 years of experience, maybe I mix up different model but I'm sure of what I'm telling you. Tldr : the phono stage by itself have nothing spécial and do it's job, it's the tone control/amplifier that affect the sound the most, vintage marantz usually have a very warm sound if you compare with newer stuff or vintage yamaha or nad. Edit: These fluance turntable are also very good.
Thanks! I had a total recap done in Rockford, Illinois a couple of years ago. Had I known about Skylabs I would have gone there. I love my Fluance with the Ortofon Blue cartridge. I tested the anti-skate with a blank platter and it needed to be set a lot higher. Tracking force is 1.8g, anti-skate set to 3g. I brought this up to Fluance and they ignored me. Other than that it's a pretty good bang for the buck.
I just turn the speed way down on my 1917 Victrola and my vinyl records sound perfect. Ha Ha. Actually I use a Linn LP12 which has had a number of updates and a Supex cartridge and I almost always prefer it to Digital But I do love my vinyl records made from digital back in the late 70's to early 80's. I never bother using my CD player or stream or any of that.
I don't worry about the digital vs vinyl argument. My ears aren't good enough. Digital is convenient. A usb stick with 3000 songs, plugged into the stereo of my truck is great. Records, cassettes, reel to reel, and other physical media are more fun and interactive, when I am hanging out at home. There is something about watching something spin that makes music more enjoyable.
I would venture that you notice the sound quality in different movie house if you attend films. It's really just where one's interest lies. Just because some bodily function has degraded over time, like walking , doesn't mean it is all washed up and useless. I can no longer hear all the test tones on on my test records, but my system sounds much better than when I was young and could hear all the test tones
@@richardelliott8352 I actually don't go to the movies. My post wasn't really about not being able to hear subtle differences. It was about all formats having their own place. Besides, I find it is the equipment that makes the biggest difference in sound quality, rather than the type of source you are feeding it with. I, recently, picked up an old Pioneer SX880, at a garage sale. Before that, everything was being fed through my modern(ish) Pioneer AV receiver. The difference was night and day. Same turntable, same cassette deck, same CD play, and the same speakers. Yet, that old 880 absolutely dominates the newer receiver.
5:00 You could sell the ATLP60 record players, they're the same mechanism, but actually have a MM cartridge. The LP60 is a lot like the suitcase ones in many ways, but the most critical part - the cartridge - is much, much better. 6:30 For 500 bucks you can get a very decent mid-range turntable if you take some time to find it; very close to the 700 or 800 bucks decks. IME, the 500 to 1000 is the best "bang for the buck" range.. especially the pro-audio turntables are actually very good value, like the Pioneer PLX-1000. Oh and you forgot something *very important* when it comes to upgrades: upgrading tonearms The tonearm is probably the most important part of the turntable, next to the cartridge. Aftermarket tonearms is a niche in a niche, overlooked even by many turntable enthusiasts.
it's unfortunate that most people don't seem to possess the necessary skill set to do basic (or deeper) maintenance to refurbish a vintage turntable because I see a lot of really good/great TT on FB marketplace for $100-$200 ( or less). most of them have good cartridges that just might need a new stylus. Buy the time you pay a pro tech to go through a 40-50 year old TT, ya might as well buy a new $500+ TT (that won't have the look/features of the vintage TT) .....
Why don't you guys do a video on vintage cartridges? There are some awesome ones out there that can be found, and some companies that make great replacement styli...just asking?!?
Got a 1200mkll 1st and just stay 1979 and earlier direct drive. Denon 1200, JVC ql a7, JVC jl b44. All for well under 250.00 each because I do minor maintenance. Upgrade, na, I'll stick to 70's midfi.
All formats have their pros and cons. Personally, I like LPs, CDs, and streaming, in no particular order. They're all enjoyable!
Sounds good,I'm doing Cd, FM and phono to tape so I can make custom tapes.
cassette tapes are memory emotional thing from growing up for me so I will always buy a tape if it appeals to me - - but my main thing is Vinyl and I do enjoy CDs as great sounding portable solution - and 8 track leer jet tapes ect I like just because they are so weird and you can get some real nice sound out of them - it's a fun format for me was before my time really but I do remember them when I was like 4 years old in the semi-trucks my uncle had.
@@SPINNINGMYWHEELS777You are damned lucky not only to have/find an 8-Trap Flayer that actually works (never mind work: properly😮💨), but to find ANY tapes that actually still play! I dabbled with 8-Trash at least 15 years ago; my older brother gave me his entire collection of some 70 tapes, & I miraculously scored a 1970-ish Roberts (Akai...😏) premium machine that not only had FFWD (which plenty of the mostly HORRID 8-Crap machines don't even have; AND ⏪ rewinding a tape is simply NOT POSSIBLE, due to the IDIOTIC construction & nature of the format's "endless loop" cassettes); my chunky high-zoot machine even could ⏺️ RECORD!😲😯😮🤯
Well, for all the good THAT did me! I think 80% of those tapes were no longer playable, despite clean & dry storage throughout their entire 30-odd year lives. No small number of them just let go of their splices during their first playback in over 10 years. Never mind the ones that spilled tape all over the inside of the machine when they wrapped themselves around the (CLEAN!😑) capstan & pinch roller; or the ones that just jammed up & seized, trying their level-best to shred the belts & burn out the motor in my "ultimate" quality Roberts home player/recorder ⏺️.🧐
Then, of the dozen or so that still could (kinda. Sorta.) "play", ¾ of those had SUCKY music; leaving a whopping 3 or 4 cartridges left that were of any interest in listening to.
And amongst that pathetic little stack of tapes, NONE of them played without the truly obnoxiously mind-bending amount of WOwÖW!🤪 & flututututter 🤪🫨😵💫🤮 that the format is renowned for. And from ALL my recollections of the many & varied machines that I have heard since I was a little kid, even when the machines & tapes were brand new!🤧🫤
Sure, the tape speed is double that of compact cassette. But despite the doubled tape width from ⅛" to ¼", those 8 tracks meant that the actual track width was identical to that of compact cassette. AND there was no high-bias tape formulations ever developed for the format; all 8-Crap tapes were made of THE cheapest & dreariest Ferric Oxide formulations that the RIPOFF record companies could find to stuff into THE cheapest & therefore crappiest housings humanly possible to make! I rememberbember the VERY RARE odd find of "blank" cartridges (probablabedly a mere BUY IT NOW! $5000 each from a reputable dumpster-diving Shyster I MEAN! honest🤥, hard-working 🤥 eBay vendor👹 right now!) that at least would have been of *somewhat* better quality than the MISERABLE pre-recorded GARBAGE 🗑️that UTTERLY dominated the 8-Crap market.
So it became abundantly clear to me, & therefore this is my warning to any of you thinking: "This ought to be a fun, easy, cheap, & KÜHL! format for me to get into!"; 8-Trash tapes have ZERO archival properties (just like the fantasy of Open-Reel tapes, which have ALSO shown themselves to be bio-degradable, with a half-life of maybe 15 years. MAYBE.).
A tape that still plays today (with the typical hissy wobbliness of some drunken Piss-Tank hand-cranking your capstan for you!) will quite likely NOT play for you the next time you try it even a year later. I'm personally amazed BEYOND BELIEF that there exists even a single "playable"🤪🫨🤪🫨🤪😵💫 cartridge left in existence in the entire world today!
As for somebody, ANYBODY! claiming to enjoy the sound of 8-Trash cartridges alongside REAL High Fidelity formats from Compact Cassette, to Beta or VHS Hi-Fi, to LP, to Seedy, to Streaming (...down your leg)...
Really?
REALLY???
😲😯😮😱
I know people like to argue formats and specs but theres one thing to me that stands out with vinyl.. It activates more sense's meaning ( ears, you listen / touch, you open the record, clean the record, drop the needle, memory's ).. Nobody will say " Remember when we listened to that MP3, but I have countless memories with records.. Regardless for a format so old it still sounds damn good and like cap coupled amps, Sometimes the imperfections add character and soul to the experience. I love both, Sometimes im lazy and ill stream ( think fast food ), Sometimes I want that sit down steak dinner ( thats vinyl ).
analog has second order harmonics that digital doesn't , and these underlying distortions are what the ear uses to determine aspects of sound, like motion , distance , all kinds of stuff. Digital has different underlying distortions, which some say the ear doesn't process as well, since they are not found in nature. To each his own, they all work.
I like all 3 format, reel to reel, vinyl, and CD, but my favourite is definitely CD, but I know some people think they sound harsh.
I’m a vinyl fanatic but I can assure you that plenty of people have said “remember when we were on that road trip listing to xxxx” and it was streaming. We can love physical formats and still not kid ourselves.
@@HoneyWindbuttonI was being a little sarcastic, Vinyl just touches on more of the senses vs streaming.. You hold it / hear it / drop the needle etc.. Sit down steak dinner vs the drive thru lol both are food.
Not to b forgotten is chilling out at thrift shops antique shops an record stores and maybe discovering a new type of music in an album that has the inner sleeve and NO scratches. Also more going on, taking the time to clean records and the artwork on album covers...
Hey now - my first record was "Puff the Magic Dragon" and it sounded so wonderful to my 6 (7?) year old ears, on my suitcase player that I played it over and over. And over and over. I did actually wear that poor 45 out and mom about pulled her hair out because I wouldn't stop playing it.
Those were the days. :)
James Darrin, Goodby Cruel World.
I bought an Empire table in 1974 and it is still my daily driver. After many belts and cartridges it still performs splendidly. Talk about built to last.
Empire made one of the best looking turntables. Built like a tank, it looked like A neighbor of mine had one in the 1970s. Today, he's strictly a streaming guy.
I own a Sansui SR-525 direct drive that my dad bought new in 1974/1975. It has an upgraded ADC VLM Mk 2 cartridge (because in 1985 we moved and as my dad was carrying the 525 into our new house he dropped it on the driveway). There's a chunk out of the rear left corner of the dust cover and he destroyed the original cartridge. His loss is now my gain as he went out asap and purchased the ADC cartridge. I've been pondering delving into an upgrade but I'm still in the research stage of it.😅😅😅
For me, easily, the biggest variable is the stylus itself. New, worn, in between, they all sound different. I love switching between different headshells and cartridges just to see how they sound.
if all turntables were perfect; the cartridges would be the difference
it's half of the equation 100% after proper speed control stability lack of resonance clean circuit. A high quality stylus as it wears doesn't have a different sound it's just a lower dB was it gets closer to the pipe - until the diamond completely loses the shape then the sound does change not just a drop in dB.
I enjoy things differently. I concentrate my money on one cartridge and don't switch, feeling that no matter how many cartridges I might own, one will still be best overall, so spend on only the best cartridge I can afford, since they are consumable, and all use is wear.
That's something I like to try to. A cartridge can make a lot of different.
@@SPINNINGMYWHEELS777The output of a cartridge does NOT decrease as the stylus wears. The output "level" doesn't change at all. But the quality of that output does!
I appreciate integrity. Especially when it comes to a business that would love the "margin".
BRAVO! 👏👏
Decide if you want a manual, semi-automatic, automatic turntable, or linear tracker? Then do you want direct drive, rim drive, or belt drive?
Then find a nicely taken care of table from the late 70s or 80s from Pioneer, Technics, Dual or any big name that meets the above criteria. Then get a decent cartridge and stylus and enjoy.
Don't overthink it.
Whoa there, that is already a lot of thinking and deciding.
perfect advice. Although condition is everything with any used article, turntables, especially the better ones, are so simple , it makes sense to invest in used higher quality than what the same money will buy new, given a modicum of care, and an in person inspection, before pulling the trigger on used stuff.
My best friend gifted me suitcase table for Xmas…I loved it. Purchased my favorite artist, Radiohead, tool…after a few months of owning it I started to notice how badly damaged/ scratched my records got from the table….it took me a few years but I purchased a technics 1200g table and have never looked back. Love it.
Kevin your videos are some of the best of the internets we love you best to your Dad and keep up the great work!
Thank you!
You're spot on. I had cheap turntables when I was younger that I used to tape nickels on top of the headshell so my records wouldn't skip. All those records are basically ruined. Ive had many incarations throughout the years and learned as I went along. I currently have a Throens TD160 for the last 6 years that was modified by Vinyl Nirvana. It's been my favorite turntable for the past 6 years and I'm extreamly happy with it. This hobby has many who will look down their noses at whatever equipment you have, My Thorens is a Crosley to them. I always wonder if they use that mentallity in all their purchasing decisions. Like what caliber of car do they own? What brands of clothes do they wear? Lastly, the Vinyl vs Digital debate is getting old. Both have their pros and cons. I personally use all formats but mostly stream because it sounds excellent and it's easy. I put albums on when I feel like reliving the days of my youth but this time I'm more educated with better sounding gear.
Had a garrard 440M, awsome table, 3yrs of constant use ,never a problem, great videos , keep spinning sky labs!!!¡....
Stu..
I love your passion for turntables. You have become my favorite audio channel as of late. Keep up the good work. Cant wait to go to your store in person someday.
A guy/a store that isn't interested and especially NOT knowledgeable about $2000+ turntables; who doesn't stock any, has no future plans to, & can't see the point to buying one DOES NOT have a "passion" for turntables. OR the highest quality of Audio, PERIOD.
Kevin knows what he knows; & that's basically that he likes what he knows, as opposed to actually knowing what he likes...and also as opposed to knowing what's actually good or great sounding.
If "good enough" is what you're looking for, or you just plain can't hear any difference between say, a pair of Klipsch Heresy's & Final (brand) electrostatic speakers, then you're watching the right channel & listening to the right guy to help you save your money!🤗
Most people don't have the space or the desire to have more than one turntable (or any other component) at a time,
but some have two or more models of everything (as do I) and use what fits a particular situation.
I like having multiple systems in different parts of my domicile.
I started with fully manual Thorens in the 1970’s. I didn’t want a cheap unit that would damage my lp’s. Moved to a semi automatic Thorens in the 80’s because I was tired of getting up off the couch at the end of the record. The motor in that unit died a couple of years ago and I’m now using a fully automatic, 80’s ?, Toshiba that I picked up at a yard sale for $100. Stuck in my old Shure v15. The thing sounds great. I don’t know if it’s better or worse though the isolation is far superior to my old Thorens.
I’m sure an audiophile would say it’s a downgrade but I like the convenience of the automatic and after working a lifetime in heavy construction I’m positive these old ears can’t tell the difference anyway.
Bought a Toshiba SR- A200 back in 80. Just put in a new stylus...Nov of 23 and started buying vinyl.
I got a flag ship sanyo table that I bought it over a pioneer table while in the army many years ago., and hell yes ,its still running well. That was in 1979,, just because they made most of the component electronics needed to madd theirs ,,still working today. Its black ,heavy quartz driven and nice with a moving coil on it
It was time for me this year. Back in the spring I upgraded from a Pro-Ject Elemental USB which I used for 9 years, to a Pro-Ject Debut Pro with Phono Box S2 Ultra phono stage and a 2M Blue stylus.
Couldn’t be happier with the upgrade!
Great advice, and I agree that the $200-$500 price level is truly the starting point. I'm glad I went that route because it prepared me for what I have now. Cheers!
I think a well.made Tt with a Grado Gold3 cart. would be all anyone really needs.
When ud rather not make a $ cuz of no quality stylus and a real love for vinyl, 2 thumbs up Kevin!
When it comes to turntables, unless you’re a millionaire
option number one, get a really good late 1970s maybe early 1980s high-quality deck from the day that has been well. Looked after serviced and working chosen wisely that will be better or worst equivalent to a new £600 to £700 deck today. The problem is with medium priced record decks are made today they are trying to reinvent the wheel. It’s a very astronomically high price and not doing a very good job of it. Aesthetically pleasing to look at anything new mechanically no not at all, like I say, classic deck, that’s been maintained serviced and looked after or sound as good as a medium priced modern new deck and the brand-new so-called entry level decks made by project and so on. They are no better than a £100 antique deck from the 1970s, that has been looked after no better at all. put a modern cartridge on one of them antique decks. This has been looked after with good speed controlyou winning all the way
I might add to be concerned about old electronics . It might be better, depending on condition to get as basic as possible, a motor, a platter, and a manual arm.
I agree that the magical tracking of a microscopic needle in the grove of vinyl provides a singular performance-playback-reproduction that is altered each time the recording is played. My Gerrard DD455/Audiotechnica workhorse from 1978 still satisfies.
My two Dual turntables, 1219 and 701, were serviced, with aftermarket dust covers and oem Shure cartridge and stylus.
Love the tactile feel, robust construction, and fully automatic function.
They check all my boxes... great video!🎉
I have a Technics SL-7 that I fished a cord from a dumpster and it was on the other end ...much to my surprise and delight. I'm using it now will a Stanton 680ee P-mount cartridge. I still like that 680/681 moving iron magical sound stage. My other table a Technics SL-D2 (that will be another dumpster find SL-1200 mark II...it's needs bearing work in the gimbal that I have time for now) with a Stanton 680ee mounted. Using the same genuine low mileage D680 stylus I have a direct comparison. So there is an audible difference. Partly because of the low mass tone arm in the SL-7 getting the most out if the high compliance the 680ee has to offer and it does track the up and down (small warps) better. That's really very slight not always noticeable. What is very noticeable is that last track on a LP were the grove is compressed and tracking at a much lower velocity. So what is noticeable is that that track doesn't have the typical sound degradation experienced there. That mastering engineers kwik its a thing so they have to deal with it in the process. Anyway it's still there and audible. Well that's certainly true for the pivoting tone arm . So here is the difference....I don't notice it with the SL-7. I believe the combination of the grove architecture and the elliptical stylus not tracking perfectly at the tangent is what is actually audible. Squaring up the stylus in that section clearly and significantly reduced it too not noticeable like the engineer intended. I got really lucky that SL-7 is working well and properly moving the tone arm with the tiny steps it's supposed to do. Yeah it just needed new RCA plugs because the cord was tweaked at the ends. That SL-1200 well that will be eventually be equipped with a Stanton 680el/al tracking closer to 4 grams that will work out very nicely for that heavy tone arm as I already know. I just need to find a good replacement stylus for the EL Ii that I have almost used up ,,,l hope there's enough life to keep it for a reference I really liked the sound. It was pretty close to the Steriohedron but a little different in a good way for many of my records and not so good for many others..
@@stevengagnon4777You're definitely a guy NOT looking to upgrade their "purchases"; you're a guy looking to upgrade their dumpster-diving skills in order to spend no money at all.
Happy trails!
@@joerosen5464 thanks got a laugh
I can't see what the suitcase player junkies can get mad about. Maybe they just can't afford a very good Tt and are jealous?
Kevin, thank you. I appreciate the information you provide.
I have recently purchased a technics s l1210 mk 2 witch I fitted with a Ortofon m2 cart yes it’s old now but it’s in perfect working condition I have had one of these on my wish list since I was in my teens I’m 63 now. It’s a keeper I love it, one day when funds allow m2 black 😎🇬🇧
Good interesting video , I spoiled myself & have 3 go to turntables in my systems at the moment , a B&O Beogram 4002 , Thorens TD125 MkII & a Denon DP-1250 , both with SME arms , all obtained here in Kona Hawaii for very little $'s , I managed to repair all 3 & they do bring me great joy . Keep up the varied , interesting & thought provoking videos .
Thanks. I would appreciate a follow up program on cartridges and replacement styli.
You remind me of one of my uncles, he can say the most hilarious things with a straight face, even when everyone is busting a gut rolling on the floor he doesn't even flinch or crack a smile.
Fuzz bunnys are definitely some creatures to watch for though, I have blown a few out from the stylus myself. I like your channel, good job!
As usual, great discussion and very valid points for sure. The portable record players are great for kids. That's how I started, used to take my portable record player with my little record case of 45's to my friend's houses and even to school sometimes when they allowed it. But then we all grow up and want better . I've had the same Technics semi-auto turntable with it's Audio-Technica cartridge since I was a teenager, and 45 years later I'm still happy with it, the only thing I've had to do over the years is replace the belts and cartridges. I'll never buy a $2,000 turntable, because at this stage in my life, my hearing wouldn't be able to tell the difference..lol
I could be wrong, but I thought all Technics turntables were direct drive and, as such, not in need of belts.
@@francescotenti193plenty of hundred dollar Technics belt drives were still sold after they started selling direct drive turntable. Before that they were all belt drive.
@@francescotenti193sorry, not could be, you are definitely wrong. After 45 years I think I know what I have. LOL
My mistake, you are right!@@karaDee2363
My hat is off to you for giving up some $$$ as u know u can get much better music from the same record on a real Tt,
whose stylus is much more kind to records than the suitcase jobs.
I love ur ethics for this GREAT hobby.
There are so many different schools of thought about "what should I upgrade first?" Lots of folks will say it's your speakers. Others will tell you your amplifier is the heart of your system. I've found validity in all of those different views. For me, the route I chose was to upgrade my source (turntable) and phono-pre five or six years ago. I will probably never forget that experience of sitting there listening to my music through my Klipsch Chorus II's - they never sounded better! My rig has changed a lot since then. I upgraded the phono pre, but the turntable I bought is a keeper. Out of all the gear that's been in and out of my system, it's been that, sonically speaking, made the biggest difference.
Yup….its almost a magic trick that a vinyl record works let alone sound as good as it does. The technology is over a century old and still amazing? That’s really kinda nuts…lol
I’ve got multiple very nice turntables, but I prefer my SL-1200 M3D with many KAB upgrades and modifications. I’m running a Tavish preamp. A friend of mine bought a GR that I borrowed to compare them. After listening to the same records using the same cartridge and set up exactly the same for about a week, I actually ended up preferring my M3D. I won’t get into the details, but it was a matter of different vs better. There was no clear winner.
That said, I do believe that if someone is looking for a really nice turntable and have the budget, the GR is a fantastic deck. I’d love to eventually hear the G or GAE, but I’m fine with my system right now. There’s a lot of nice turntables out there for every budget, and digging for records rather than thinking what’s wrong with my system is nice. It is a great feeling to get rid of “upgraditis”, and putting a system together with good synergy can take a long time and be fun, but once you’re there, it’s worth it.
Hi Nick, fancy meeting you here. We seem to move in some of the same circles. 😉
Hopefully I'm getting near the end of my "upgraditis" 😉
Jim 🏴🙂
@@jimsregaturntableshifijukeboxHey Jim! Always nice bumping into you in the wilds of the interwebs 🔊😊🎶🎄 Merry Christmas 🎁
@@NickP333 Hi Nick, good to hear from you. Merry Christmas to you from Scotland 🏴🎄🎉🎁
I bought a ProJect Essential 3 from the local NPR station at a record show 2 years ago. It was nearly new in the box. I really like it but I wish it weighed more. My guess is I'll use it for a couple more years and then step up to a higher-tier vintage table or a wood plinth VPI. I love the way the latter looks!
The suitcase record players are for people who are trying out vinyl. If you don't have alot of money and want to give it a try, the good news is if you like it on the suitcase, you are going to love it with real gear. If you didn't like it, and by that I mean the sound was not what you wanted, good news again, your right Kevin, they are toys and again real gear is going to be revelatory. Thank you. Your positive stance and informativeness on vintage and vinyl makes your videos good watches.
To me the philosophy of a simpler as possible turntable, highly customizable with interchangeable tonearm and with an high chance to fix it in case of damage of any components leads me to Thorens TD 160 then I’ve found a TD 125 MKII and now I think I’m satisfied with a TD 124 MKI
Those turntables that has two tonearms Would you Explain that to me, please cause I am looking at one it is a S.A.M
Can anyone tell about the 2 tonearm turntable what is the purpose of it. Thank you very much like I said, I’m looking at one. S.A.M
Sometimes, they use another Tonearm/cartridge setup for different type of music, and sometimes, it's not a turntable, it's a master cutting bench and they use the regular Tonearm to verify the quality of the cutting they've just done. But most often, it's the first case. I hope it answer your question. English isn't my language, sorry for the bad grammar.
@@MarvinHartmann452 hey brother, that turntable S.A.M
Is there a pretty good one?
After my SL-5 linear tracking turntable died earlier this year I bought my first manual turntable, a Rega P2 with an upgraded AT-VM540ML. Recently I added a Fono Mk5...game changer. I can't afford to upgrade anymore for quite some time, but for now I'm quite happy.
I've settled on 2 turntables that I use. I am a Pioneer fan so #1 is the Pioneer PL-707. #2 is a Technics. I started out with the SL-1200MK2 but, I'm lazy and hated that it was not automatic. I found the SL-1600MK2 full automatic. They seem to do fine for me for the last 10 years.
I have a Pioneer PL-530 on the bench. It needs work. One day I will get to it.
I like your videos. Cool stuff. Thanks.
It would be great if you could now explain phono pre amps and the sweet spot for them. Thanks
Get a used one with a good track record (no pun intended). Any of the Musical Surroundings Phenomena series are decent. Cambridge Audio are also decent, or if the budget is really tight a ART DJPre2.
Big budget, Parasound JC3 (Plus or Junior).
I have a Dual 701 that needs a re-cap, looking forward to when I finally get to play it. I do find Duals to be very “plasticky,” but people love them.
Been using a dumpster dive Yamaha yp-d3 for the last few years, no complaints😉
Plasticky? The dual is fully metal base and a great tonearm
They do. It also dépend on the cartridge you have on it. In my knowledge, there's not many caps in these turntable, maybe it's the wires or a bad ground. But yeah if you compare to more modern stuff, the dual tend to be limited. There's a lot of hype around the brand, but compared with a good Thorens 125 or 160, or a technics SL-1200/ SL-1200 MK2, the later tend to sound better, if you have a good cartridge of course.
As usual, well done Kevin. Been on that lifetime journey myself. I’m currently at level three with my Pro-Ject X Pression 3, Speed box and Tube Box S2, Ortofon 2M Bronze. That said, for my vintage based system in the man cave, I recently bought the AT LP-120XUSB. I did upgrade the stylus. Gotta say, it’s a darned good turntable for short money. Sounds fantastic.
I like these ortofon 2m series, surprisingly, I like the red and the blue, there's a huge difference between the 2. I will buy a used black to try it.
@@MarvinHartmann452 The 2M Red can sound remarkably better when used with an Origin Live Cartridge Enabler, at less than £30- UK and with the option to return for a full refund no questions asked, when purchased direct from Origin Live. I have recommended it to three or four of my subscribers and none of them have returned it, it's that good with the 2M Red!
I have one fitted to a 2M Blue and a Goldring 1042 on a couple of my Rega turntables.I must add I have no connection to Origin Live, I just love some of their products.
Happy Listening and best wishes to all, from Scotland.
Jim🏴🙂
Before I purchased my Tube Box S2 I researched compatibility with my cartridge. The Tube box was the best fit. Matching preamp to cartridge seems to be the best strategy.
@@larrysmith5413 It's certainly always best to do research my friend. Glad to read it all worked out well for you
Jim 🏴🙂
When I was a little kid I spent hours playing 7-inch 45 rpm singles on my red and black Sears Silvertone single-speaker record player, staring at the needle riding in the grooves and marveling at how cool that was.
I never stopped doing that -- except for a long dry spell in the CD era when I didn't have an active turntable. Now my mind is blown by all the different stylus types (conical, elliptical, microlinear, shibata, nude-mount...) and cartridge technologies (moving magnet, moving coil, fixed coil, moving iron...). Don't make me think about tonearm gimbals or my head will explode. I have several turntables (mostly vintage Thorens, Technics, Miracord, Philips, Pioneer, and new-ish Fluance, Music Hall, Audio-Technica, Marantz) which I like to swap out occasionally (along with their cartridges) just for the sake of novelty.
Even the best sound in the world (digital or analog) can get tiresome after a while because you get used to it and don't really hear it the way you did when it was new to you. That's how our senses (and brains) work. Otherwise we'd all just collapse from overstimulation.
And, of course, there's no such thing as The Absolute Sound (sorry, British audiophiles!) -- only what sounds good to you at a particular moment with a particular recording in a particular format on a particular set-up in a particular room. I don't know if LPs (with all their surface noise, necessary EQ, and compression to keep the needle from jumping out of the grooves) can seriously be considered "audiophile" and I don't really care. Sometimes it sounds really, really good to me. So does a good DAC.
I really enjoy your take on this hobby. I currently stream most of my music, but ive been thinking about dipping my toe into vinyl . Im really leaning towards U-Turn. Not trying to start a huge debate, but i like the fact they are made in the US.
I have different vintage record players. Its all on what your looking for and price point and keep in mind your room as how your setup will run. Where my setup works for me it maynot work for you.
@@semperfi-1918 I also prefer to support my native economy, but my buying criteria is expanded to places where I know the people involved in my for pleasure product have good wages and working conditions. No possibility of slave or oppressed labor, for one thing.
Back in the day I had a "skylab" catchers mitt! I remember when the Skylab fell out of the sky!!
I have absolutely no need for a new turntable, as I love my TEAC TN-5BB which I've had for less than a full year. But I've always been enamored by the Technics SL-1200 series, and I'm considering a GR or GR2. I didn't get one at the time because I wanted the auto lift/stop feature, plus they really weren't available with the supply chain fiasco. I will keep my TEAC no matter what, and I'm just trying to figure out how I justify the purchase to my wife lol.
@@MansintheMavea
Oh yeah, that's also a great pick. Hope you enjoy it.
@@defcreator187
It's too bad Technics doesn't still make a full auto version. I'm staying away from any vintage turntables although I do still have my old Dual CS5000 which still works. The old Japanese units were some of the best looking ever made I think.
After decades upgrade from Pioneer 518 semiautomatic, to Technics 1600mk2 & MA1 automatic TT. For picture records found Technics SL-V5, vertical TT
That rules out all belters.....good luck getting 33.33. I restore turntables daily and now I listen to CDs. CDs may not be cool, but sound better.
I can pretty much count on my Technics SL-7 being spot on, but not the SL-D2 it's not quartz locked .
I have a Fluance RT85 with a 2M Blue cart. Love it and I think you are probably right about that sweet spot. I don't know if I really need an upgrade for a long time. I think since I am at that $500 area...I dunno if I would think about upgrading unless I was going full on and switching to a Moving Coil cart. Maybe someday! Great video!
Dude, I have a fully tricked out Fluance RT85. IF you should decide that you want to upgrade, here's the kit list to give you amazing sound quality and a dead silent background.
- Get an Ortofon 2M Bronze ASAP. This is 1 of the 2 big difference makers on this journey. I know it's pricey. Get a pre-owned one if you have to. Just. Get One. Pre-owned will set ya back about $325-$350. Look for demo carts from places like Audio Advisor.
- Get the Pro-Ject Tube Box S2 phono preamp. This is pricey, but the vacuum tubes really do got their own thang goin'. ...and this could be and WILL BE an endgame phono preamp for a lot of folks.
- Get a "Chi-Fi" linear power supply unit for the turntable AND the phono preamp. This is the 2nd huge difference maker on this journey. There are dual output options on Ebay for around $250-$275 shipped (You'll need a dual 18v model). There are sellers w/ thousands of sales & 97% or better positive feedback who specialize in linear power supplies & "DIY" stuff of that nature.
This will leave you with a killer sounding phono stage. If you have good power & speakers there ain't no way you'll be disappointed w/ this getup. If you could come stand in the middle of my listening room I'm sure you'd agree.
Anyway, this is still a lot of $$$, but it's doable. Especially if you have a job & side hustle and income is stable. ...and even though it is still expensive by most ppl's standards, this upgrade path is dirt cheap in comparison to the next "tier" of turntables/cartridges/phonon preamps. You'd probably have to spend $3,500 to $4,000 to "out-do" the Fluance RT85/Ortofon 2M Bronze/Pro-Ject Tube Box S2 & linear power supply setup I'm suggesting here...
Love that you posted such a detailed set up! Thank you! I saved it so when I do upgrade I have it as reference. I do have a tube phono pre amp, but it's a cheaper one more in the $100 range. My speakers are vintage mid range Sony speakers (in the $200 - $300 area), they sound good, but may be the next thing I upgrade. Receiver is a mid range pioneer.. in the $400 area. I figure next year I will start looking into some better speakers and the cartridge you mentioned would be my upgrade if I decide to do it. I don't know much about power supply's, but I want to do more research and understand it better so I am not blind buying something. thanks again!@@dizzle1119
Even when you have all the gear, the turntable, cartridge and line contact stylus, without the right set up you may have well not have bothered. Cartridge and stylus set up is critical. It can take time, and listening..It's worth it!
Great video! I'm thinking that my first turntable is going to be a P3...
Good choice, can be upgraded when funds allow
Been following your posts for a while
Really like your approach to this hobby and your style
15:25 15:25
Great advice indeed. I take all your comments to heart as i continue to navigate 2 channel listening.
I greet you and respect you from Romania !
I've had a forever turntable since 1990. The stylus / cart is what is the primary variable to open up the beauty based on the stability and accuracy of the player itself.
Really like where you are coming from.. & with the ears I have on the side of my head are what makes me enjoy all my music.
I have always owned Duals since 1980. I had a GE phonograph and BSR earlier. But, listening to my Dads Dual since 1971, I always wanted a Dual. My first a used 1216, then a 506, and later other models. I now Have my Dads 1215S, another 1215S, two 1216s,1218, 1225, 1226, 1229, and two 506s. Yes, I have a Victrola all in one. I bought it for the CD burner. The turntable played maybe 5 records and is now slower than 16 speed. I patch a Dual into it and burns a nice CD for the car. No upgrades needed unless I can find a nice CD burner.
Another great video Kevin! Only thing missing on the suitcase turntables was the penny taped to it so it didn’t skip…lol
I’m ready to move up from micro seki dd25 to Linn lp12
Loving the journey of rediscovering vinyl and vintage sound.
I guarantee you are going to be delighted with your upgrade! Just make sure it’s set up by someone who knows how to do this, there are plenty of clowns out there who bolt on all sorts of junk on them.
Synergy om…..perfect!
Hey Kevin love your videos! Merry Christmas to you and family
I have a turntable that gets bad remarks on threads BIC 912C, they get no love from the high end types with jokes added and it was made in 1979 ..I got it used and cheap 40 usd many years back in 2007 08 ish , I rewired the tone arm ,put a new Shure cartidgege on it, set tracking near 1.5 grams , the shaft and bearing had old thick factory grease in it I replaced that with new grease. I could never get the pitch quite right and the belt was not the issue but liked the sound I was getting from it and Dual Parts gut on Ebay told be to lube the motor shaft with 30 W motor oil an still the pitch was an issue .. . I had put it away for a long time in favour of a direct drive Sansui ..Two months back I wanted to hear it again and pitch still was the problem and it hit me to use some oil I have for my mower engine 100 percent synthetic motor oil Amsoil in place of the grease and and wow ,it made so much difference. It can keep a sustained piano note in natural pitch just because of using the synth motor oil making it easier for the platter to turn with less stress over the thick grease that the motor had to struggle with and I get a real audiophile vibe from it now . I would put it up against anything new up to a 1000 usd table .
Good stuff. I have a Pioneer full auto 117 from about 1975. far as I know, still works fine. also a pretty new (discontinued ) Thorens 103. BUT I prefer Concert DVD be it Diana Krall, Paris. Anna Netrebko , LaTraviatta - both blue ray great vid / audio( including translations for opera ) or Grateful Dead movie ( 2 nd disc ). to me DVD is the only significant improvement in equipment since say 1975.
Yeah I agree with you. I love turntable and I have plenty of records, but more often than not, à cd / dvd / blu Ray will sound better to me.
Kevin Mirage 750 speakers are the greatest!!!!!!
Well, I just got my second turntable yesterday, so yes, I'm ready for an upgrade. 😁
I just recently bought my first player and it’s the Fluance 81+ and i love it so far
Excellent video 👍 Several years ago, my stepdaughter got a suitcase player, and I actually gave her some records from my collection 😳. Probably ruined the records, but l was happy to see her showing interest in old music . Cheers from Ontario, Canada 🇨🇦
It was sooo worth it to hear Kevin say “Om.” Or is that Ohm? Now I want to spin the Moody Blues “In Search of the Lost Cord.”
Chord, not Cord
This is my TT progression:
1- Garrad Changer... Spent hours listening to STACKED records and quadraphonic.
2- Sony DD auto return... Rock solid speed and big bass/drive/rhythm improvement over belt drive.
3- Fisher linear tracking... Full auto convenience, quartz drive, random access, skipping, full auto and some.
4- Ditched TT for CD... The dynamic range that CD offered TRUMPED records. Finally got rid of ticks and pops. No looking back... or so I thought.
(4 point whatever since these are CD players) Numerous portables, Sony CD changer, Cal Audio Lab, Sonic Frontiers, etc.
5- Conrad Johnson SG3... Got bit by the Audiophile bug. Full manual fooling with spring suspension/VTA/alignment/damping/belt/ on and on.
6- Technics SL1300... Still want the full auto convenience and stepping back even further in time. Coming up 50 years and it is still one solid TT. Just wow... or is it not much wow and flutter? :)
7- What is next? Had lust for the Beograms... but no replacement parts or needles.
Edit: Oh, I did have a portable TT at one time or another.... or did I. That is blotted from memory, LOL.
LOUDNESS BUTTON. Spend 30 seconds on that. Mines on all the time ...til once inna while.
Absolutely 100% correct!
Sorry but when someone tells me Crosley, I cringe that is a kids First TT, you can add around 200 bucks and have a Very Nice sounding TT. Just like anything once you start spending 5k plus you are not getting a good Sound Per Buck sound improvement but they Do have their Sonic Improvement all the way to the moon! But it Costs tons more to get it.
Great advice on this Video.
Enjoy your channel and your personal views. You are clearly experienced & not negatively biased. You are doing God's work 😂. Happy Holidays and keep it up.
Generally, this is pretty good advice coming from someone who has been into Audio since 1972 and it’s gone through a lot of stuff. In my humble opinion to get good sound from a turntable compared to digital you need to spend at least $1000 and have a really good phono preamp behind it. That is one thing that he did not mention the phono preamp makes a difference . So let’s say you pick up a used techniques 1200 or thrones 125 and put on a cart that is between three and 600 bucks, Then you need some skill to set up the turntable and Align the cartridge, which is really tricky. Is it worth it? It all depends on what you’re looking for. I will say a good final set up will do things that additional set up will never do and vice versa. Remember it’s just a hobby and enjoy you use your ears and it’s all up at the music.
It's not that tricky to adjust if you have the protactor, and the correct specs for your particular cartridge / turntable/ tonearm. You just have to take the time to do it properly if you're not used to do it. The thing is, many vinyl records were recorded in digital format and put back in analog afterwards, so when it's the case, I think it's better to just have the CD. Digital recording started in the lates 70s or early 80s for many artists.
It's just not "that" tricky to set up a cartridge where it will magically make distortion on the records disappear. One doesn't need to spend a lot of money either to have top notch performance. I got top notch by selling all the LPs and turntable and investing in cds.
I stream, do CD'S and have a few turntables. Streaming is great, easy, no brainer, but also nothing is happening to engage you with making beautiful sound like from playing a well kept album. CD'S fall in between. My system, playing albums beats CD'S easily, and puts a good UltraHD Amazon track to shame in one way, but lacking in others.
But records can be a great hobby, from setting up a turntable, cleaning records, stylus, equipment etc. and that all analog sound, going through tubes!
I have invested a majority of my dollars to playing albums well. This includes about 4k on the table/cart, 2.5k on a phono preamp, about 7k on amplification and 4.5k on speakers (2.1).
This is matched to reflect my main listening - 60's, 70's, 80's rock, alternative rock, modern rock and classic rock. Blues and jazz are starting to creep in.
My system never fails to amaze me on what I hear now, tonality, separation, musicality and staging.
I've recently retired, and wanted to drastically upgrade what I had for a system, figured I've got 10 good years of listening before my hearing suffers.
Good info. Although I gave my 40 year old Technics turntable to my son a few years ago (still going strong) I may get back to vinyl someday, but am fine with CD's and streaming as my hearing diminishes. You've already talked in other YT's about people's responses to remembering what a particular system/record/tape sounded like years ago. My hearing as a senior is gone above 8000 Hz which is below what I used to hear at 15,000 Hz so my own "dynamic range" has changed. I wonder how this human condition drives system architecture as we age.
The black table match my sansui au 999 system,, i still have the audio sickness bad ,,,grew up near fort dodge iowa now living in GA,out of the cold snow hibernation
Thank you brother for the very enjoyable listen.Keep them coming pls!
I have 2 nice enough turntable, a Thorens TD-160 and a technics SL-1200 MK2, but in my opinion, a CD will always sound better. And yes, both have a good cartridge and they're both perfectly adjusted. A CD or a reel to reel will always sound better. Some people think they sound harsh or cold, but with a vinyl, there's so many things that can affect the sound, like the phono Pre-amp, the adjustment, Tonearm and cartridge, and most important, the record itself, you can have 4 édition of the same record, and they will sound very different from each other, I've tried 4 different éditions of led Zeppelin 2, even à so called audiophile one, and I thought my older red label Canadian édition was better than the newer one, also, many recording were done in digital format originally since the lates 70s/80s, and put back in analogue and vinyl format afterwards, so it's a downgrade from the original. It's good for some people, and I have many vinyl myself, but for me a cd sound better, less noisy, and more dynamic.
I say go to your local goodwill or thrift store and pickup a vintage turntable
I have found several techniques aKai dual B&O Sony turntable that work great for $30 before you buy a suitcase I have two I got for gift I only use the cassette and Cd part of them never but a record under that stylus
Although I have adopted vinyl 100%, vinyl has to be stored carefully, cleaned regularly, take up a lot of space (versus alternatives), tend to have less music per side (15 minutes +/- whereas a CD may have 70 minutes of music on it). The case against vinyl is strong! Yet, it's where I am. And CDs can be bought very cheap, whereas vinyl is expensive! $30 in nice used CDs may be 50 to 100 albums, $30 in vinyl may be just one album. Sure, I buy a lot of thrift store vinyl at low prices, but the selection is limited and they often have serious condition issues. Streaming of course takes up zero space. On turntables I own several, all vintage, all good brands (no suitcase album eaters). I currently have Technics, Pioneer, Thorens, Dual and Gerrard tables. I am selling several of them. My two Pioneers are my "forever" turntables.
I always enjoy your videos and find them helpful. My first turntable was a Silvertone AC/DC suitcase stile in collage 1967.
I actually have a 1985 AR turntable that I bought new back then. Still in use today. I have no need for an upgrade.
I had a lot of fun with an AR eb101 that served me well, and was still preforming as new when I upgraded after about about thirty years of almost daily use. I would recommend such a table to anyone buying used, because AC motors are frequency controlled by the line power, so don't need the speed controls that a DC motor requires for accuracy, adding complexity and cost.
My sister had one of those suitcase jobs...wish I had then what I have now. Very good components, Pioneer Toshiba,
Kenwood Cerwin Vega. . .
Kev, U R the MAN, turning down profit in order that good
records stay good and not ruined by suitcase players.
I am getting the idea from..you
That a turntable costing about a grand could yield a better sound.
I have a Toshiba SR-A200 with a Stanton 681EEE cartridge would a Dual give a better sound. Could it be worth it?
My first was one of those GE Wildcats....I cringe to think I broke in my Pink Floyd Wish You Were Here on it! I now have a couple JVC QL 50s dd...the ones where you put your own tone arm on it. One is in use to archive vinyl to digital for customers, the other...on my bench in need of repair after 100s of hours of use, much of it wet playing. I don't have a TT for personal use, I still despise vinyl as much as I did in the 70s and 80s.
great overview on tables. Just a suggestion, you may want to include a second video on phono stages. The phono stages in most vintage receivers are ok but they were all built to a price point. They can be easily improved upon for not a lot of money. A few phono stages that come to mind are the Phonomena series 1, 2, or 3. The EAR phonobox clones from doukmall, and the Marantz 7 phono stage clones from zerozone. The output from any of these stand alone phono stages can be run into the aux input or a tape loop input on a vintage integrated or receiver. The version 1 of the phonomena can be found used for around 300. The EAR clone brand new is about 475.
I really appreciate your show. Rock on!
Good perspective. I'm seriously considering moving up from a Fluance Rt 85 to the Technics 1200GR2
You will not be sorry. I upgraded from an Audio Technica LP120XUSB to a Technics 1210GR, and I'm very happy. It was such a marked improvement in sound even though I'm using the same upgraded cartridge I was using on the AT. The 1200/1210GR2 makes some additional improvements, but the regular GR is fantastic (and $300 less).
@@dmnddog7417 thanks that's good to know as I've been back and forth as to whether it was really going to make a noticeable difference especially with the fact that I'm going to use the same Sumiko Amethyst cartridge
@@winstonmcgill6667 I think it has to do with the better resonance dampening on the Technics. My cartridge is an AT VM540ML, and the 1210GR provided a better platform for it to perform. I couldn't believe how much better it sounds.
Yeah, I want to try that cartridge, I've heard very good comments about it, I don't know if it would be a good upgrade from a ortofon 2m blue, I would want to try it on my technics SL-1200 MK2, if I buy it, I'll also try it on the Thorens TD-160 I have, it currently have a 2m blue on it. I would want to hear if there's a difference between these 2. I'm very curious about it.@@dmnddog7417
I took the plunge and purchased the 1200 GR2 I love it. A profound improvement over the Rt85
Great video Kevin, Thanks for making those speaker stands!!!!! I've wanted a pair for at least 6 years now and was not willing to pay what people were asking, until now! That's a fare price and a smart decision for a new product. I hope people buy the sh#t out of them for you. I just bought a pair.
I just got back into vinyl, I purchased a lp120xusb a couple months back and thought I like it, I was able to score a near mint sl1200 MKII for $325 and she has become my favorite. I'm running a vm95ml cartridge. I may look at a Ortofon 2m blue or red, but so far I'm enjoying the vm95ml
Love your channel and I'll stop in when I get to DSM! What's your opinion on the Marantz 1060 phono stage? I'm currently using that with a Fluance RT85. I may upgrade the TT to the sweet spot someday but I'd like to keep the amp. I'm also running the pre out into a Emotiva BasX.
Hello, these are the same phono stage that are used in many other marantz model. You can replace some electrolytic coupling capacitor with film ones, and if I remember correctly, there's a clipping adjustment on certain models, but if you replace the capacitor, you're not supposed to have to adujt it. Some also have tantalum capacitors on the input, I know they affect the sound, but some people prefer to keep them, some will replace them with electrolytic non polarised or film capacitor. But as it is, it do it's job and it's neutral. The rest of the pre-amp and amplifier usually do à good job. Vintage Marantz amplifier are usually very dynamic as opposed to let says à yamaha. I've rebuilt and repaired many vintage equipment and usually, that's my opinion on these. I'm a electronic technician with 40 years of experience, maybe I mix up different model but I'm sure of what I'm telling you.
Tldr : the phono stage by itself have nothing spécial and do it's job, it's the tone control/amplifier that affect the sound the most, vintage marantz usually have a very warm sound if you compare with newer stuff or vintage yamaha or nad.
Edit: These fluance turntable are also very good.
Thanks! I had a total recap done in Rockford, Illinois a couple of years ago. Had I known about Skylabs I would have gone there. I love my Fluance with the Ortofon Blue cartridge. I tested the anti-skate with a blank platter and it needed to be set a lot higher. Tracking force is 1.8g, anti-skate set to 3g. I brought this up to Fluance and they ignored me. Other than that it's a pretty good bang for the buck.
That was a great video, I enjoyed your comments, Thanks.
I just turn the speed way down on my 1917 Victrola and my vinyl records sound perfect. Ha Ha. Actually I use a Linn LP12 which has had a number of updates and a Supex cartridge and I almost always prefer it to Digital But I do love my vinyl records made from digital back in the late 70's to early 80's. I never bother using my CD player or stream or any of that.
I Started out with a SL-1200 over 30 years ago. So I don't have to upgrade, except maybe the head shell and cartridge.
Ommmm. Love you, man!
I don't worry about the digital vs vinyl argument. My ears aren't good enough. Digital is convenient. A usb stick with 3000 songs, plugged into the stereo of my truck is great. Records, cassettes, reel to reel, and other physical media are more fun and interactive, when I am hanging out at home. There is something about watching something spin that makes music more enjoyable.
I would venture that you notice the sound quality in different movie house if you attend films. It's really just where one's interest lies. Just because some bodily function has degraded over time, like walking , doesn't mean it is all washed up and useless. I can no longer hear all the test tones on on my test records, but my system sounds much better than when I was young and could hear all the test tones
@@richardelliott8352 I actually don't go to the movies. My post wasn't really about not being able to hear subtle differences. It was about all formats having their own place.
Besides, I find it is the equipment that makes the biggest difference in sound quality, rather than the type of source you are feeding it with. I, recently, picked up an old Pioneer SX880, at a garage sale. Before that, everything was being fed through my modern(ish) Pioneer AV receiver. The difference was night and day. Same turntable, same cassette deck, same CD play, and the same speakers. Yet, that old 880 absolutely dominates the newer receiver.
Great video - Love the intro - Skylabs lays it out as fairly as possible
Thank you!
Nice video
5:00 You could sell the ATLP60 record players, they're the same mechanism, but actually have a MM cartridge. The LP60 is a lot like the suitcase ones in many ways, but the most critical part - the cartridge - is much, much better.
6:30 For 500 bucks you can get a very decent mid-range turntable if you take some time to find it; very close to the 700 or 800 bucks decks.
IME, the 500 to 1000 is the best "bang for the buck" range.. especially the pro-audio turntables are actually very good value, like the Pioneer PLX-1000.
Oh and you forgot something *very important* when it comes to upgrades: upgrading tonearms
The tonearm is probably the most important part of the turntable, next to the cartridge.
Aftermarket tonearms is a niche in a niche, overlooked even by many turntable enthusiasts.
it's unfortunate that most people don't seem to possess the necessary skill set to do basic (or deeper) maintenance to refurbish a vintage turntable because I see a lot of really good/great TT on FB marketplace for $100-$200 ( or less). most of them have good cartridges that just might need a new stylus. Buy the time you pay a pro tech to go through a 40-50 year old TT, ya might as well buy a new $500+ TT (that won't have the look/features of the vintage TT) .....
Hi good video
one big step up is a good phono pre amp .that takes you to a new level of your sweet spot
Why don't you guys do a video on vintage cartridges? There are some awesome ones out there that can be found, and some companies that make great replacement styli...just asking?!?
The toy record player is a gateway drug!!
Got a 1200mkll 1st and just stay 1979 and earlier direct drive. Denon 1200, JVC ql a7, JVC jl b44. All for well under 250.00 each because I do minor maintenance. Upgrade, na, I'll stick to 70's midfi.