I have to call BS on this one. The reason that you go to a "reputable" dealer and pay a premium price, is for their expertise. The customer was not making an unreasonable request by asking for 45 dollars. It would have been an investment in goodwill that would have paid dividends. Instead, they have shown that they are not willing to take responsibility for their mistake. If you have to have a "buyer beware" attitude when you buy from them, then why take a chance at all? Take your business to a place that you know stands behind what they sell and will do what it takes, within reason, to resolve an issue. There are many other dealers that come to mind, including Casino Guitars. Everyone have a Merry Christmas and Happy New year.
Chicago music exchange sent me a les paul with pickups that were not in the description. I found out like a few months later, and they sent me the proper pickups and paid for the job to install them. They did right by me in that case. Which was cool.
CME is now my go-to shop for most gear because I’ve had good experiences with them and they’ve made an effort to act like they appreciate my business! It’s that easy to get customers for life. I’ll be looking to buy from Casino in the future too. I’ll add that I live in the Northeast of the U.S. and there’s no dearth of music shops here. Good customer service goes a longgggggg way.
Interesting video, in my opinion when you buy vintage guitars from reputable sellers you buy into their assessment/reputation on what they’re selling, it’s theirs the responsibility to know what they have as they’re the “experts”. The buyer trusts that and I don’t believe every customer needs to be a vintage expert on every single aspect of guitar authentication, it takes decades to really get to know vintage guitars and even then you’ll still make mistakes. Making a mistake as a dealer it’s ok, it happens. The way you solve the situation and deals with it after is what shows if you’re a good seller or not. And being polite and nice only takes you so far, at the end being super nice but not standing to what you specified on a listing simply makes you a bad seller (not a bad person necessarily). On another note, if the buyer decided to sell the guitar one day or one year later because he didn’t like it or wanted to flip it for profit, it’s just not relevant to the matter at hand. I think it’s nice that this person brought up this case, because this is not ok. They should have offered a solution to send an original replacement set of tuners and ask for the old ones to be sent back to them and be done with it.
Rumble Seat should have reached out and corrected the issue, one of the kernels of their business model is selling authenticity. Mistakes are made but the ones that are rectified correctly are remembered better. Great video content as always gentlemen and Happy New year...
To me, it’s irrelevant that he notified Them a month later. He bought the guitar based on the specs stated. I would be troubled if l was the guy. True this could be innocent on the shops part but in Nashville ya think it would be accurate on all specs.
Totally it's the shops # 1 job to know this stuff. They need to compensate him. It's not the guys fault. I'm gonna assume that shops are aware of this stuff and they play stupid when called out.
The shop kinda cheaped out, they sold something with the wrong information and refuse to fix it while not being expensive to fix. It makes them unreliable, this guy buys something trusting their expertise, then only after a month he finds out he is being lied to and they won't fix it
@@richsackett3423 if I understand the situation the selling shop made a false statement (possibly fraudulent) 2 years is typical cut off for civil actions.
I have had condition issues, that were dealt with immediately. Had a Fender Strat where a large chunk of paint was one bump away from falling off. The ad said paint was in great condition with minor scratches. There was no picture showing this area. Now another guitar I bought was on me. Wanted a stock SG with gloss paint (not matte). Bought one that looked good in pics but the description was short. Got it home. Had a JB/59 combo in it (Seymour Duncan logo should have given me a clue). The neck pickup was upside down. And it had matte silver locking Sperzel tuners. Totally on me. I still have fun with this guitar. I experiment with different stuff on it since it is not stock. I am a little more critical when I buy guitars or pedals today. I like to see alot of information and pictures. But I have to do my homework on my end to make sure I am getting what I want. Merry Christmas to all the staff at Casino Guitars!!!!
Dave great share there! Sounds like the Strat was for sure a dropped ball on the seller and glad you received some satisfaction though. It is a fun journey out there, a little tricky sometimes, but pretty darn fun most of the time. Great points you shared and sincere Merry Christmas to you and yours this season as well!
Bought a vintage Framus that was advertised as a ‘63, all original. Got it from overseas and after some research, found out it was a ‘66 and non-original tuners. The shop was really good. Gave me a bunch of money back which was more than fair. Still have the guitar, still love it.
Thanks for this. I think choosing a reputable dealer is really important and everyone I have dealt with has always been willing to answer my questions and send extra photos if I request them. My only advice is if you want to start collecting, start with a less expensive (less rare) example of something you are interested in. Learn as much as you can from that guitar and from good books. Then, move up to something a bit more expensive. Over time, you can become more comfortable with the buying/trading process and learn as you go. Thanks again for the thoughtful and balanced discussion.
I know this is TOTALLY off topic but I just wanted to let everyone know my wife got me an AC30 for Christmas. Life is good. Carry on. LOL! I just wanted to share that with those who I know will "understand".
Going to be some amusing future times with some of my older stuff - I bought a new SG Custom back in 1974 and the gold plated potted pickups rusted up badly in a few weeks. In the end they were replaced by the shop with normal Gibson humbuckers under the warranty. Then there is the Gibson made 1935 Kalmazoo KG14 - so dilapidated/neglected it needed major work on loose braces, splits, a neck reset etc so I've had the repair person remove the fretboard and put in a gibson style trussrod for tweaking it. There is also the Gibson acoustic I had them make - in the custom shop with some changes to the model norm such as a split diamond in the headstock. Can just see the screams in the future when my loving wife puts them on sale to convert to cash (as loving wifes do when you die) - 'those are NOT original features, it MUST be a fake etc etc.'
Just bought my first vintage guitar. A 1967 Gibson SG Special. Purchased it from the shop I used to teach at in Alaska. The shop owners brother found it in a church closet, so they sold it on commission. Was able to get a great deal for a fairly clean guitar. Has a replaced adjustable wrap around bridge, and the original tremolo system is missing. The tuners are replaced with some of the big white tuners instead of the small buttons. But the pickups and everything else is original
11:02 where I live, electronic shops sell entry level gear... When I bough a Peavey Milestone ($150) from them, a few weeks later the solder joints went loose. I called them and asked if they had anyone they would recommend to do that job. They told me to bring it in, and they resoldered and even upped the capacitor for free
I see and use my guitars as tools. I'm not above modifying something if I feel it would better that way. I'm a long time drummer at heart and vintage drums are not priced like vintage guitars. I don't get the obsession with such minute details. "It has to be all original down to every last screw!" I can under stand pickups and such. But if the original bridge was crap and replaced or the tuners were junk why freak out? If they were replaced for a reason and are period correct, super accurate reproduction, or a more functional replacement why get all worked up over it? A guy in a drum forum once asked about getting the bearing edge on his vintage snare drum cut. The original edge had become dented and worn and would not keep the drum in tune and a new one could be cut in the same style to exactly match what had been done back in the day. One dude posted "Don't you f'n dare! You'll RUIN the drum! I hate you types! All that matters is original spec and value!!" Another said "Just go do it and have the pro guy cut it! You'll be able to play the drum and it will have more value as a playable instrument and not a period history piece! What good is a worn out instrument?" The guy had it cut and posted the drum sounded amazing. I don't get why someone would rather have funky loose rattly old parts that are original than replace them with functional ones that make the guitar better IMHO. I get why the store was at fault, and they should have corrected it but I don't get guys that get all bent out of shape about it."I don't want it now, it's not mint original and is useless to me! " as if the tone was in the vintage tuners or whatever. The cork sniffers of the guitar world. Ugh.
Oh I don't mind using repros - put repros on my 52 Goldtop and put the originals in the case. Lot less stress :) Mint guitars make me nervous - I have two teens in the house that play guitar and if they scratch something then it's on me not them... me eldest learned to play on a 74 LP Custom and 65 Strat refin - lucky beggars
It has become like people who collected (now illegally) things from Egyptian tombs and so... Literal "relics". They want to hold them like a holy grail that means they are "more serious" and have more $$... It's people who wanna say " I have a gazillion mint , all original guitars from the 50s, that I never play just because I am *that* awesome. . . 😐 Also, those "collectors" help keep the scarcity, the less old guitars available, the more its prices rise.
True story, I bought 1947 - D-28 from a shop in Nashville that everyone knows as the most knowledgeable on Martin guitars. It was sold to me all original. It was done on line over the phone. Two years later I took the guitar, in person, back to the same store to sell it on consignment. To my surprise they told me that the frets had been replaced and I said no, I bought the guitar from you and you said it was all original. They looked it up and the sales guy said he said he was not aware of the refret when he sold it to me and we were at an impass. To me, there is no way this shop would not of known it was refretted when they 1st. took it in. They are the worlds foremost experts on martin guitars. Bottomline, I purchased the guitar and was told it was all original and it was not and that I may not have purchased it knowing it had been refretted. It was a $11,500.00 guitar. I all fairness I probably would of bought the guitar anyway. In the end they did nothing but say sorry. They did sell guitar for what I was asking and they did take their commission. I did leave a sour taste and a real bummer feeling about this shop that everyone revere's. If you buy a vintage guitar I say buyer beware. If your buying a vintage guitar that claims to be 100% original have another reputable shop check it out. This is easy to do in Nashville or other large cities. If your buying it on line have enough time on the return policy so you can do this. Some shops have a 48 hour "Return" window which is to short to do this. Even with this on some things it's man's opinion vs. another man's opinion.
Late to the party but I had a similar situation w/ Rumble Seat, but they made it right and gave me some money back. They are good guys by me. Not necessarily the most thorough with the guitars that pass through their shop, but my next purchase with them was for a lot more money and things went smoothly.
I used to work at guitar center and had an American fender. The neck plate had one of this holes to adjust the neck but there was no hole in the body. Turned out the body was a warmoth body and American parts. Had to price it down a lot and list it accordingly
The first vintage guitar I ever bought was a 1979 Silverburst LP Custom that I bought locally from a guy who had bought it from the original owner. It was an interesting experience buying a beat up old guitar for thousands of dollars, haha. My biggest tip: DO YOUR HOMEWORK! Know the little things about the EXACT model you're looking at buying. I brought my full set of tools to our meet up and pulled the guitar apart as much as I could. I dated the pickups and pots, I blacklighted the whole guitar to check for cracks, I opened the electronics cavities and looked for refinish paint and marks, I knew what the serial number should be, I knew what the headstock and inlays should look like, etc. You have to know all these minutiae by heart or you could get ripped off. Be safe out there!
Merry Christmas. Dudes! Just wondering about the guitars on the wall behind you. Are those part of Baxter's collection? They don't seem to be selling very quickly and some of them look to be pretty desirable. (Actually, now I can't see the pink Tele. 😳)
I had a similar experience trying to sell my First Act Volkswagen limited edition that came with the purchase of a VW New Beetle. Turns out the control knobs were off of a Radio Shack car stereo. Merry Christmas, gentlemen!
You do -as you say -need to know your stuff . I’ve been playing guitar since I was a kid and at 63 recently bought a 20 year old Strat which is in great condition. Needed a set up I thought so take it around a couple of stores who gave different judgments. One said needed full fret dress and all manner of stuff , the other said it may need a fret dress at some point but just needed a basic set up to use the whammy bar . The bodywork is pristine but to be told the frets were fairly worn was a big surprise-feels fine to me . I’ve resigned myself to thinking yep I can play guitar but don’t know enough about them just like driving for 30 something years but not enough about cars . Good luck to anyone buying vintage guitars -they’re overpriced in my book too unless you get a real minty one which can potentially justify the outlay .
Hey guys, Any chance you could touch on vintage amp buying? I've been interested in mid '60s blackface Princeton and Deluxe Reverbs as well as brownface Deluxes. What should I be keeping an eye out for? What does it mean when someone says the "electrolytics" have been changed? What parts are acceptable to change or are just considered regular maintenance or changed for safety reasons? What is going to effect the tone? Price? Great channel. I love the videos. Thanks guys.
electrolytics are capacitors and a part of the amps electronic circuit. They have a semil liquid content and can dry out become unusable so have to be replaced. it is likely and usually acceptable those, the valves and resistors can wear out and need replacing. Tone should not be affected by these replacements. Les acceptable would be the transformers or chokes being replaced which can affect the tone. A certain capacitor (called the death cap) on older Fender amps is removed for safety reasons as if it goes short circuit the amp can become live and fry anyone touching it. Not a dealer so cannot offer any thoughts on price.
Always inspect your gear when it arrives, I bought a jackson from GC online and the pickups were fake SDs that were stamped epiphone on the bottom. GC offered a full refund but I'm always weary now.
My first awareness of vintage guitars occurred in '73 at age 16 when a local guitar shop displayed an old Les Paul lying in state like Lenin's Tomb, under a glass counter with a $2,200 price tag. My buds and I snickered at the price. The owner, an "old guy" in his 30s, explained how rare and valuable the guitar was (snicker).The place was stocked with used Gibsons - $150 Melody Makers, $175 Specials and Jrs, $350 LP Customs. Heck, you could buy a brand new Pinto or Vega for $2k!! Haha! The good ol' days...
Hey guys ... I’m loving your content! And you’re churning it out. I was driving through Florida yesterday listening to video after video (audio). Love the expertise and variety of topics 🎸🤙
Hi guys I get your point that a customer should know what he's buying and that he should definitely check on what he wants to purchase. Anyway, think about this: why should I buy a vintage guitar from a store when I could buy it directly from someone on reverb certainly saving some money? The answer is simple, a store is giving me the guarantee that the piece is original in all its parts or otherwise it's pointing out what it has been replaced. In other words: if a shop is willing to deal with vintage instruments should be on top of the game and guarantee the customer of what he's buying. If the shop's team is not competent enough to guarantee that to the customers should just sell brand new instruments. Nothing wrong with that. I don't find fair the whole idea of me buying a vintage instrument from a shop and then having the responsibility to check if what you sold me it's original or not.
Thanks a bunch my man! Thrilled you dig it. And some of our favorite cats are from Australia! We love the guys for the band kingswood! That guitar player is not only great, he’s a real funny dude as well!
Merry Christmas guys! Thanks for always putting out out good content that feels like your right there in a conversation with me. You talk to me, not at me!
Great video. Cool topic re: vintage. I feel if Rumble said it’s ALL original then as a recognized authority in the vintage market, they need to make it right and get him the original replacement tuners. Yes 30 days is getting out there but Rumbles response is both disappointing and surprising.
FYI Guys it’s legal to record almost all phone calls with only one party permission (the recording party being the caller satisfies this) if across state lines. NC is a one party consent state as is Tennessee where the caller was calling plus he was calling from outside TN so Fed law applies too which is single party. As far as time passes you really have 2 years to be on the hook if the buyer wants to press it in a situation like this. Think your response to this is square on to what I would want a seller to do for me. Unfortunately I have noticed younger employees especially super hard working go getters have an eye out for protecting their employer from getting scammed and lose sight of what’s best for business. Situations like this are great training opportunities. Love y’all even
This isn’t the first time I’ve heard this about Rumble Seat. Trogley has a video on a Mustang he bought from them whee here were multiple finish issues that were not in the photos.
They have had a few issues as have I believe everyone i the guitar business but those guys are notoriously honest and a decent lot. I have met a lot of vintage sellers that really hate selling online now as it is almost impossible to note every check, crack, or wear mark on a piece. That being said, we think they could have remedies this situation really easily and affordably. Thanks for the thoughts drake and always good to hear from you!
@@CasinoGuitars As purveyors of vintage gear, I have a hard time believing they didn’t notice the lack of brass posts on the tuners. That should have been a red flag to them with they acquired it.
Absolutely love you guys and the channel! I haven’t had the chance or income to buy a vintage guitar yet but someday when I do you can bet your bottom dollar that I will do an extensive amount of research and homework before buying because I will be buying to collect not for profit
Thanks a ton! Glad you dig the channel. And sincere thanks for sharing your thoughts there. We agree, the research is needed when delving down this world.
I love old Gibson basses. Grabbers rippers. There all train wrecks and when you buy one it definitely has issues. I restore them build repo necks for them( as the old ones are crap) but love the sound of them !
Happy Holidays and enjoy the following trivia. Australian consumers have a lot of rights and even second hand items are subject to statutory warranties. Selling something as original when it’s not would be regarded as breach of the warranty as the goods MUST match the description given to the consumer. The length of the statutory warranty is based on the expected life span and quality and price of the goods sold. The consumer can expect to receive a refund from the seller if certain requirements are met (a seller representing a “no refund” policy is against the law and subject up to a $1.1M penalty). Theoretically whenever the consumer found out the goods weren’t as represented they could be entitled to a refund. H’mm new expensive guitars that don’t stay in tune could give sellers a lot of headaches as it’s usually up to seller to chase manufacturer not the consumer! On a side note there is precedent now that US companies who knowingly sell goods to Australians are subject to Australian consumer law (eg Valve had to pay $3M in fines I think ) which could have ramifications for instrument manufacturers moving to a direct sales model!
Got what I think is a rare Taylor 654 ce Cherry Sunburst from 2007, according to Taylor they only made 67 that year, and ONLY a handful the Cherry Sunbursts are made. Original price according to Taylor was $4048. I think it's worth at least $3000 but don't know. It is in excellent shape, with everything original as far as I know
I agreed that the dealer should take responsibility for the inaccurate sale. And make it right. However, I think you have to be careful buying vintage online or without seeing/ playing it yourself.
Where should folks go to find player grade vintage guitars? I’m okay with a repaired headstock and a refret if the body and pickups are still original. I’d really like to find a nice late 60s 335.
A seller's liability often turns on what 'representations' were made prior to the sale and whether the representation at issue was 'material.' As to whether the buyer needs to immediately or within a short period of time advise the seller of the misrepresentation-- nope, that's not a thing (check your jurisdiction's statute of limitations).
Merry Christmas casino guitars.... I don't know what happened but santa didn't bring me that new white 335.... I was wondering if you guys could coordinate with santa to see what happened to it... Thank you
48 hours is generous, everyone makes mistakes, even customers, but after 30 days a Full Refund would not be fair to Dealer although Service or exchange would be depending on if at fault
I've only been seeing you both here for about a month and a half. I would have no problem buying something from you sight unseen. I am hoping very much that when my work begins travel again and I get up to NC that I can get off an afternoon and ride over to check out your shop in person. Till then, Merry Christmas and all good days!
Thanks a ton for the nice thoughts! We would love to see you once the world of travel is back on:) Merry Xmas to you and yours and we’ll see you out there on the interwebs!
I agree, I began collecting and playing Japanese vintage ( '76-'84) electric and acoustic guitars by accident a long time ago. The guitar to price ratio seemed to good to be true to me. I must admit that I've bought guitars just because I'm too lazy to change back to standard tuning. My guitars range from my main guitar, a 1983 jv squire that looked like someone had walked on it wearing golf spikes when I bought it, to a pristine '81 Greco Super Real egf 1800 that I would put up against any Les Paul. I think the issues really arise when you attempt to make money by reselling the things. I would love to have a small vintage guitar shop, but I would never make a dime.
@@thomascampbell6374 There's definitely money to be made if you play the game right, takes a lot of time though. I've wanted to get my hands on a Greco for years, they look fantastic, as well as Edwards and Burny. Really cool story, thank you for sharing!
IMO it depends on how the shop markets it or speaks on it. If they tell you everything is 100% original and it's not the shop should do their best to fix it. The customer thought they were buying something based on the word of the shop. Now I get that the shop can't always know these things, but in that case I think it's fine to say "we believe..." la la la. It's a little liability relief, but also would mean the buyer goes in knowing what they are getting. That being said, the shop really should try to fix it even if they think it was not all their fault. The PR hit from this story is probably worth a lot more than whatever it costs to fix.
I've got a 1967 12 string Rickenbacker 360 Jetglo. I would love to sell it but I can't see a shop asking 20% to sell it for me. What are your thoughts?
Vintage market is spooky, I have bought many mid-priced "daily drivers" ($300.00-$1,000.00) electrics over the years and too often parts are changed out and unintentionally affect the resale value. I don't dare risk large amounts of money on individual instruments because there are so many risks involved. Too stressful😬
Yeah we recently got swindled on a 1973 Strat. I unfortunately wasn’t at my shop and I only had pro audio guys there for the day. The guy told my staff the only modification was the tremolo was different and he replaced the bridge pick up but he still had the original one in the case. Once I got there and took it apart I could tell it was likely 73 partscaster some parts being original and some parts definitely not.
Ye, similar things have happened to us as well...that's always the scary part of not having the A team in everyday. Thank you for sharing and sorry for the situation.
I love vintage instruments and amps. I think this was a great video on the subject. I live near Nashville, and I’m familiar with Rumble Seat. I agree that they are highly reputable and this was just a simple mistake. You can go into some music stores and just get a feeling that maybe they are a little sketchy, but Rumble Seat is the polar opposite of that as are the two iconic vintage stores that are on the same street (Carter Vintage and Gruhn’s). I’m in agreement with you regarding the buyer as well, but I really think that the buyer made a mistake by buying from a highly regarded dealer. That is exactly what you want to do if you are buying an instrument/amp to keep, but if you are buying just to flip it you really are losing profit for yourself. Personally, all of my vintage gear (thus far) has come from Carter Vintage, and in my experience they have always been upfront about any changes that have been made to the instrument or amp. I bought a 1960 Champ for the same price as a new Fender ‘57 Custom Reissue Champ, because it had a replaced speaker and transformer. It still sounds amazing and looks like the piece of history that it is, and I’ve already had multiple people offer to buy it for more than I paid for it. The same day I also bought a Silvertone 1484 which was the reason I had gone to the store in the first place. It is absolutely the most pristine example I’ve ever seen in person. I paid a premium for the condition, and in all likelihood if I wanted to sell it I wouldn’t be able to get what I paid for it. It’s still a cool amp that I have no intention of selling. The Champ was just sitting there on the ledge right as you go into the main showroom next to Mr. Carter’s computer. I told him that I had passed up a good deal on a ‘58 Champ when I lived in Memphis, because I didn’t trust the store that was selling it. He said “Here’s your chance to get a good deal on one again.” I also own a 1957 Fender “Mandocaster” that has only had the tuner buttons replaced. For what it’s worth, the disintegrated remains of the original buttons are in a baggie in the case. It’s the single most expensive piece of gear I own, but it was one of my “Holy Grail” most wanted items and it’s worth every penny. The salesman who sold it to me had been in the vintage gear industry for 30+ years in Nashville and the Mandocaster I bought was only the second one from the first generation of Mandocasters (slab ash body, blonde finish, gold anodized pick guard, maple fretboard) he had ever seen come up for sale. He sold the other one when he was working for George Gruhn to an iconic British guitarist who bought it as a gift for a friend who was also a well known guitarist.
Great pieces first off and thank you for sharing! And thrilled that you have been to those shops as well. They are all top notch and the staff they all have are for the most part, top notch and all straight shooter! Thanks for sharing your experiences with them as well. I hope all works out for the buyer and he seems like a real nice guy! Sincere thanks again for sharing your journey and best to you and yours this holiday season!
Hey - I had a 1993 Honda Civic and the darn thing broke down on me on a dark road in Staten Island across from a swamp where Sammy The Bull Gravano dumped 17 bodies. How do I know this? It was across the street from our office complex and one day a NYPD Police trailer showed up, and didn’t leave for a year - until they had exhumed 17 bodies. No BS.
I loved going into Rumble Seat with my uncle and looking around when they were up here in Ithaca. It was like going into a dark cave full of the coolest oldest gear. Wish they didn't move but it turned out to be the right move for them.
The vintage guitar market is more or less like the fine arts market. Even Picasso once called one painting a fake Picasso, which turned out to have been painted by him.
merry christmas! actually a 93 civic hatchback si is a highly coveted body and chassis, it’s known as the EG civic and ironically i always wanted one! vintage cars are similar, where people pay a fortune for vintage cars with original equipment - so maybe my car will be worth something 20 years from now! i’m ordering new wheels and keeping my original ones for this reason! oh man, just realized i gave my oem floor mats to someone who messed up theirs! there goes $100!
It’s almost like I knew a way to your heart Z! The 93 civic opens you up and my knowledge extends beyond fretted things:) Much love and we’ll talk soon me hopes!
I once sold 80s Gibson LP Custom. I listed it as refinished (I wasn't sure about this, it it was pristine, so no way it was original finish), and replaced tuners. I sold it. Days later I got a message telling me they had received it, but they were sure it was a refin and they wanted the money back. I showed the listing and it ended there. Sometimes you just need to read.
My opinion is that if someone is selling a 100% original, it is on the seller. Otherwise, don't claim it as 100% original. But places don't want to do that, because it sells for less. This is especially true for actual shops/businesses. It is on the seller to verify if it is 100% original or not. If they dont know, or are not sure, then dont sell it as such. Also 30-days, thats not a long time to look at something and return it.
It was actually 2 months I realized since I got it - but it doesn't do to criticize the icons of the vintage world... I've been banned from The Gear Page
With an expensive vintage Gibson I would pay Trogly $30 to check it out first and confirm that it was exactly as advertised...Bummer situation for all concerned, hope it gets resolved amicably and fairly Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays guys, really appreciate what you do! P.S...RIP Leslie West
I had a business selling classic and vintage cars. This is all bringing back memories. At the end of the day the honus is on the buyer. If I took the word of the seller as gospel, I would have lost more money than I ever made. Some of the best body guys will get these things and by sight you can't tell that the entire rear panel is bondo. I put it upon myself to make the arraingements needed to touch the car, or create a 'grace period' with the seller to have a right of refusal, and likewise with my customers.
Not a bad point there. It is really tough when buying from long distance but again in the end, it for sure does come down on the buyer. Sincere best to you and yours this season and thanks a ton for sharing your thoughts!
Odd that now people will regard eras of really spotty production from Gibson, Fender or Martin as “vintage” just because they are old. A real stray from what “vintage” used to mean.
This is what happens when "vintage" equals cash and not instrument... if your buying old things in fragile market where things are valued by what someone will pay not what it's worth lol I view this as something more comparable to the market of antiques and collectibles then instruments.... and sadly in the market of antiques and collectibles there is no 100% guarantee period... personally the best way to know if a good instrument is good is if it's good and beat but still plays amazing it will be like this cuz it's a great instrument lol guitars arnt like cars where someone buys it and hides it away in grandma's barn so its mint... an old guitar from my experience will almost tell a story cuz you can litterly see what notes been banged for years what chords are worn ect ect...
I was horrified recently when I watched a video by a well known youtuber and great guitar player where he went to check out vintage guitars in Nashville and he went to rumble seat and played some guitars? many of them were in dire need of a refret, to the point where the guitar was unplayable?........but they were asking top dollar prices for a guitar that needed a refret, and by doing that youn"de-value" the guitar?? if you are selling vintage guitars at top prices, they should have absolutely no issues whatsoever, and if they need a refret they should be reflected in the price, or have been refretted prior to sale? there are certain things that guitar shops should do, and certain things the buyer should do. I have gone into shops with the intention of spending money but walked out because an expensive guitar was way out of tune and obviously had not had a setup before being offered for sale let alone cost a ton and be unplayable??
This whole thing is tricky. Seems like a reputed vintage shop in Nashville (w their own Reverb page) would be able to sell it for more than just some guy, so it seems unlikely he bought it just to flip. That being said, if they told him it's 100% original and it's not, when IS the cutoff for a refund? 30 days in-hand doesn't seem unreasonable, even if he did have a little outside help sleuthing the issue. IMO, if you're business is "vintage guitar shop," and you're selling something as 100% original, the onus is on you to confirm that it is what you say it is. Not the buyer. Otherwise, it's "haha gotcha, you just didn't catch it quick enough!"
Several States like Georgia allow you to record as long as one of the parties like yourself knows that it's being recorded. Shady or whatever the thought, it's still legal in some places and used A LOT if you have an attorney involved.
I enjoyed the video as always with you guys. It would seem to me that if the buyer is right, you would have to revalue the guitar and refund the difference based on the new valuation. But no way should the dealer lose money if they acted in good faith. The lesson is buy new from Casino Guitars. Or used as I would 100% trust Casino.
Vintage is a spooky pool to dip your toes into, especially if it’s a huge investment for you personally. I just came into a modest inheritance and just before receiving it an L plate 1965 Olympic White Strat appeared at my local G.C. They were asking $25K. I was thinking it was more an $18K example, and thought about making an offer, but man, considering the price, all the “what if’s” started haunting me. It’s G.C. so they say they checked the date codes and neck stamps, but how do I know? Tuners were replaced along with one vol pot, but still, how do you know? I did as much research as I could, which only led to more questions. It looked like a great Fender C.S. Relic job, so then I was wondering why am I considering paying a premium for what is most likely a player grade vintage? I dunno... I ultimately got lucky because they sold it a few days before my inheritance check came. Phew! I was never so glad I missed out on an axe before, lol. I have two true vintage guitars. My ‘65 Epiphone Casino was my first electric guitar. 8th grade grad gift in 1982. $350.00 w/ a Kustom amp. Recently bought a ‘59 Silvertone dolphin nose U1. It’s clearly all original because who is going counterfeit those cheap-ass tuners on a sub $1K guitar?
I have to call BS on this one. The reason that you go to a "reputable" dealer and pay a premium price, is for their expertise. The customer was not making an unreasonable request by asking for 45 dollars. It would have been an investment in goodwill that would have paid dividends. Instead, they have shown that they are not willing to take responsibility for their mistake. If you have to have a "buyer beware" attitude when you buy from them, then why take a chance at all? Take your business to a place that you know stands behind what they sell and will do what it takes, within reason, to resolve an issue. There are many other dealers that come to mind, including Casino Guitars. Everyone have a Merry Christmas and Happy New year.
Would love to hear you response to my follow up video ua-cam.com/video/p6bdpA6vE-E/v-deo.html
Chicago music exchange sent me a les paul with pickups that were not in the description. I found out like a few months later, and they sent me the proper pickups and paid for the job to install them. They did right by me in that case. Which was cool.
CME is now my go-to shop for most gear because I’ve had good experiences with them and they’ve made an effort to act like they appreciate my business! It’s that easy to get customers for life. I’ll be looking to buy from Casino in the future too. I’ll add that I live in the Northeast of the U.S. and there’s no dearth of music shops here. Good customer service goes a longgggggg way.
Interesting video, in my opinion when you buy vintage guitars from reputable sellers you buy into their assessment/reputation on what they’re selling, it’s theirs the responsibility to know what they have as they’re the “experts”. The buyer trusts that and I don’t believe every customer needs to be a vintage expert on every single aspect of guitar authentication, it takes decades to really get to know vintage guitars and even then you’ll still make mistakes.
Making a mistake as a dealer it’s ok, it happens. The way you solve the situation and deals with it after is what shows if you’re a good seller or not.
And being polite and nice only takes you so far, at the end being super nice but not standing to what you specified on a listing simply makes you a bad seller (not a bad person necessarily).
On another note, if the buyer decided to sell the guitar one day or one year later because he didn’t like it or wanted to flip it for profit, it’s just not relevant to the matter at hand.
I think it’s nice that this person brought up this case, because this is not ok.
They should have offered a solution to send an original replacement set of tuners and ask for the old ones to be sent back to them and be done with it.
Buy refinished, rehabbed. Save money and play the darn thing! That's was it was build for.
Rumble Seat should have reached out and corrected the issue, one of the kernels of their business model is selling authenticity. Mistakes are made but the ones that are rectified correctly are remembered better. Great video content as always gentlemen and Happy New year...
To me, it’s irrelevant that he notified Them a month later. He bought the guitar based on the specs stated. I would be troubled if l was the guy. True this could be innocent on the shops part but in Nashville ya think it would be accurate on all specs.
Totally it's the shops # 1 job to know this stuff. They need to compensate him. It's not the guys fault. I'm gonna assume that shops are aware of this stuff and they play stupid when called out.
@@Airhead348 Thanks guys - here's the follow up video ua-cam.com/video/p6bdpA6vE-E/v-deo.html
Two months later? Four months? A year? GTFO. Typically 48 hours upon receipt. Why does that guy think he gets special rules?
You guys have quickly become on of my favorite guitar channels, I hope you guys reach 100K+, subscribers soon
Cheers from Maryland. I have thoroughly enjoyed your content over this crazy, crazy year. Merry Christmas and Best Wishes for 2021!
I appreciate your takes on the guitar business. You have really helped me out a couple of times.
The shop kinda cheaped out, they sold something with the wrong information and refuse to fix it while not being expensive to fix. It makes them unreliable, this guy buys something trusting their expertise, then only after a month he finds out he is being lied to and they won't fix it
You just can't wait a month. That's ridiculous. No sympathy for the dude.
@@richsackett3423 No, because false advertising is illegal. Doesn't make a difference if it's a month later.
@@richsackett3423 if I understand the situation the selling shop made a false statement (possibly fraudulent) 2 years is typical cut off for civil actions.
Best wishes for a peaceful, restful and safe holiday - greatly enjoying your show, insights, stories, and guitar talk.
I have had condition issues, that were dealt with immediately. Had a Fender Strat where a large chunk of paint was one bump away from falling off. The ad said paint was in great condition with minor scratches. There was no picture showing this area. Now another guitar I bought was on me. Wanted a stock SG with gloss paint (not matte). Bought one that looked good in pics but the description was short. Got it home. Had a JB/59 combo in it (Seymour Duncan logo should have given me a clue). The neck pickup was upside down. And it had matte silver locking Sperzel tuners. Totally on me. I still have fun with this guitar. I experiment with different stuff on it since it is not stock. I am a little more critical when I buy guitars or pedals today. I like to see alot of information and pictures. But I have to do my homework on my end to make sure I am getting what I want. Merry Christmas to all the staff at Casino Guitars!!!!
Dave great share there! Sounds like the Strat was for sure a dropped ball on the seller and glad you received some satisfaction though. It is a fun journey out there, a little tricky sometimes, but pretty darn fun most of the time.
Great points you shared and sincere Merry Christmas to you and yours this season as well!
Bought a vintage Framus that was advertised as a ‘63, all original. Got it from overseas and after some research, found out it was a ‘66 and non-original tuners. The shop was really good. Gave me a bunch of money back which was more than fair. Still have the guitar, still love it.
I love the early morning videos.
Stay safe and Merry Christmas!
Thanks a ton and merry Xmas to you as well!
Forum experts are my favorite sometimes, but I’ve also had “experts” give bad feedback, spread misinformation and devalued my NOS haul.
You cleaned and oiled the vintage fretboard! I want my money back! LOL.
Thanks for this. I think choosing a reputable dealer is really important and everyone I have dealt with has always been willing to answer my questions and send extra photos if I request them. My only advice is if you want to start collecting, start with a less expensive (less rare) example of something you are interested in. Learn as much as you can from that guitar and from good books. Then, move up to something a bit more expensive. Over time, you can become more comfortable with the buying/trading process and learn as you go. Thanks again for the thoughtful and balanced discussion.
You guys are exactly right: a few bucks is not worth losing the most important thing in business: trust and credibility
I know this is TOTALLY off topic but I just wanted to let everyone know my wife got me an AC30 for Christmas. Life is good. Carry on. LOL! I just wanted to share that with those who I know will "understand".
New or vintage?
Cool amp either way.
That was an awesome share!
@@charlesbolton8471 It's new but it's awesome. I can't wait to pair it with my AC10. Overkill? Yep. Do I mind? Nope. LOL!
Going to be some amusing future times with some of my older stuff - I bought a new SG Custom back in 1974 and the gold plated potted pickups rusted up badly in a few weeks. In the end they were replaced by the shop with normal Gibson humbuckers under the warranty. Then there is the Gibson made 1935 Kalmazoo KG14 - so dilapidated/neglected it needed major work on loose braces, splits, a neck reset etc so I've had the repair person remove the fretboard and put in a gibson style trussrod for tweaking it. There is also the Gibson acoustic I had them make - in the custom shop with some changes to the model norm such as a split diamond in the headstock. Can just see the screams in the future when my loving wife puts them on sale to convert to cash (as loving wifes do when you die) - 'those are NOT original features, it MUST be a fake etc etc.'
Great job guys. Very interesting topic.
Thank you sincerely!
Just bought my first vintage guitar. A 1967 Gibson SG Special. Purchased it from the shop I used to teach at in Alaska. The shop owners brother found it in a church closet, so they sold it on commission. Was able to get a great deal for a fairly clean guitar. Has a replaced adjustable wrap around bridge, and the original tremolo system is missing. The tuners are replaced with some of the big white tuners instead of the small buttons. But the pickups and everything else is original
11:02 where I live, electronic shops sell entry level gear... When I bough a Peavey Milestone ($150) from them, a few weeks later the solder joints went loose. I called them and asked if they had anyone they would recommend to do that job. They told me to bring it in, and they resoldered and even upped the capacitor for free
I see and use my guitars as tools. I'm not above modifying something if I feel it would better that way. I'm a long time drummer at heart and vintage drums are not priced like vintage guitars. I don't get the obsession with such minute details. "It has to be all original down to every last screw!" I can under stand pickups and such. But if the original bridge was crap and replaced or the tuners were junk why freak out? If they were replaced for a reason and are period correct, super accurate reproduction, or a more functional replacement why get all worked up over it? A guy in a drum forum once asked about getting the bearing edge on his vintage snare drum cut. The original edge had become dented and worn and would not keep the drum in tune and a new one could be cut in the same style to exactly match what had been done back in the day. One dude posted "Don't you f'n dare! You'll RUIN the drum! I hate you types! All that matters is original spec and value!!" Another said "Just go do it and have the pro guy cut it! You'll be able to play the drum and it will have more value as a playable instrument and not a period history piece! What good is a worn out instrument?" The guy had it cut and posted the drum sounded amazing. I don't get why someone would rather have funky loose rattly old parts that are original than replace them with functional ones that make the guitar better IMHO. I get why the store was at fault, and they should have corrected it but I don't get guys that get all bent out of shape about it."I don't want it now, it's not mint original and is useless to me! " as if the tone was in the vintage tuners or whatever. The cork sniffers of the guitar world. Ugh.
Oh I don't mind using repros - put repros on my 52 Goldtop and put the originals in the case. Lot less stress :) Mint guitars make me nervous - I have two teens in the house that play guitar and if they scratch something then it's on me not them... me eldest learned to play on a 74 LP Custom and 65 Strat refin - lucky beggars
It has become like people who collected (now illegally) things from Egyptian tombs and so... Literal "relics". They want to hold them like a holy grail that means they are "more serious" and have more $$... It's people who wanna say " I have a gazillion mint , all original guitars from the 50s, that I never play just because I am *that* awesome. . . 😐 Also, those "collectors" help keep the scarcity, the less old guitars available, the more its prices rise.
True story, I bought 1947 - D-28 from a shop in Nashville that everyone knows as the most knowledgeable on Martin guitars. It was sold to me all original. It was done on line over the phone. Two years later I took the guitar, in person, back to the same store to sell it on consignment. To my surprise they told me that the frets had been replaced and I said no, I bought the guitar from you and you said it was all original. They looked it up and the sales guy said he said he was not aware of the refret when he sold it to me and we were at an impass. To me, there is no way this shop would not of known it was refretted when they 1st. took it in. They are the worlds foremost experts on martin guitars. Bottomline, I purchased the guitar and was told it was all original and it was not and that I may not have purchased it knowing it had been refretted. It was a $11,500.00 guitar. I all fairness I probably would of bought the guitar anyway. In the end they did nothing but say sorry. They did sell guitar for what I was asking and they did take their commission. I did leave a sour taste and a real bummer feeling about this shop that everyone revere's. If you buy a vintage guitar I say buyer beware. If your buying a vintage guitar that claims to be 100% original have another reputable shop check it out. This is easy to do in Nashville or other large cities. If your buying it on line have enough time on the return policy so you can do this. Some shops have a 48 hour "Return" window which is to short to do this. Even with this on some things it's man's opinion vs. another man's opinion.
Late to the party but I had a similar situation w/ Rumble Seat, but they made it right and gave me some money back. They are good guys by me. Not necessarily the most thorough with the guitars that pass through their shop, but my next purchase with them was for a lot more money and things went smoothly.
I used to work at guitar center and had an American fender. The neck plate had one of this holes to adjust the neck but there was no hole in the body. Turned out the body was a warmoth body and American parts. Had to price it down a lot and list it accordingly
Merry Christmas guys!
The first vintage guitar I ever bought was a 1979 Silverburst LP Custom that I bought locally from a guy who had bought it from the original owner. It was an interesting experience buying a beat up old guitar for thousands of dollars, haha. My biggest tip: DO YOUR HOMEWORK! Know the little things about the EXACT model you're looking at buying. I brought my full set of tools to our meet up and pulled the guitar apart as much as I could. I dated the pickups and pots, I blacklighted the whole guitar to check for cracks, I opened the electronics cavities and looked for refinish paint and marks, I knew what the serial number should be, I knew what the headstock and inlays should look like, etc. You have to know all these minutiae by heart or you could get ripped off. Be safe out there!
Merry Christmas. Dudes! Just wondering about the guitars on the wall behind you. Are those part of Baxter's collection? They don't seem to be selling very quickly and some of them look to be pretty desirable. (Actually, now I can't see the pink Tele. 😳)
Phil Brown just listed some items for sale on Reverb, at least he' listed the ones that apply, are listed as player built!
I had a similar experience trying to sell my First Act Volkswagen limited edition that came with the purchase of a VW New Beetle. Turns out the control knobs were off of a Radio Shack car stereo. Merry Christmas, gentlemen!
That was truly funny! Merry Xmas to you as well!
You do -as you say -need to know your stuff . I’ve been playing guitar since I was a kid and at 63 recently bought a 20 year old Strat which is in great condition. Needed a set up I thought so take it around a couple of stores who gave different judgments. One said needed full fret dress and all manner of stuff , the other said it may need a fret dress at some point but just needed a basic set up to use the whammy bar . The bodywork is pristine but to be told the frets were fairly worn was a big surprise-feels fine to me . I’ve resigned myself to thinking yep I can play guitar but don’t know enough about them just like driving for 30 something years but not enough about cars . Good luck to anyone buying vintage guitars -they’re overpriced in my book too unless you get a real minty one which can potentially justify the outlay .
Hey guys,
Any chance you could touch on vintage amp buying? I've been interested in mid '60s blackface Princeton and Deluxe Reverbs as well as brownface Deluxes. What should I be keeping an eye out for? What does it mean when someone says the "electrolytics" have been changed? What parts are acceptable to change or are just considered regular maintenance or changed for safety reasons? What is going to effect the tone? Price?
Great channel. I love the videos. Thanks guys.
electrolytics are capacitors and a part of the amps electronic circuit. They have a semil liquid content and can dry out become unusable so have to be replaced. it is likely and usually acceptable those, the valves and resistors can wear out and need replacing. Tone should not be affected by these replacements. Les acceptable would be the transformers or chokes being replaced which can affect the tone. A certain capacitor (called the death cap) on older Fender amps is removed for safety reasons as if it goes short circuit the amp can become live and fry anyone touching it. Not a dealer so cannot offer any thoughts on price.
Always inspect your gear when it arrives, I bought a jackson from GC online and the pickups were fake SDs that were stamped epiphone on the bottom. GC offered a full refund but I'm always weary now.
My first awareness of vintage guitars occurred in '73 at age 16 when a local guitar shop displayed an old Les Paul lying in state like Lenin's Tomb, under a glass counter with a $2,200 price tag. My buds and I snickered at the price. The owner, an "old guy" in his 30s, explained how rare and valuable the guitar was (snicker).The place was stocked with used Gibsons - $150 Melody Makers, $175 Specials and Jrs, $350 LP Customs. Heck, you could buy a brand new Pinto or Vega for $2k!! Haha! The good ol' days...
Merry Chistmas from Germany!
Same to you! Have a great one over there in Deutschland! Best from the whole casino crew to you.
Hey guys ... I’m loving your content! And you’re churning it out. I was driving through Florida yesterday listening to video after video (audio). Love the expertise and variety of topics 🎸🤙
Hi guys I get your point that a customer should know what he's buying and that he should definitely check on what he wants to purchase. Anyway, think about this: why should I buy a vintage guitar from a store when I could buy it directly from someone on reverb certainly saving some money? The answer is simple, a store is giving me the guarantee that the piece is original in all its parts or otherwise it's pointing out what it has been replaced. In other words: if a shop is willing to deal with vintage instruments should be on top of the game and guarantee the customer of what he's buying. If the shop's team is not competent enough to guarantee that to the customers should just sell brand new instruments. Nothing wrong with that. I don't find fair the whole idea of me buying a vintage instrument from a shop and then having the responsibility to check if what you sold me it's original or not.
Thanks for all the videos fellas, some of my favourite content on youtube. Merry Christmas from Australia
Thanks a bunch my man! Thrilled you dig it. And some of our favorite cats are from Australia!
We love the guys for the band kingswood! That guitar player is not only great, he’s a real funny dude as well!
@@CasinoGuitars kingswood are great! We play their song ICFTYDLM in a cover band I’m in every now and then
You've got some really nice Fenders in your guitar shop. Do you ship out of state?
We sure do and thank you! We ship worldwide:) we are very close with our ups guys!
Merry Christmas guys! Thanks for always putting out out good content that feels like your right there in a conversation with me. You talk to me, not at me!
Sincere thanks to that, truly a nice thing to say and much appreciated! Hope you have a Merry Christmas as well. Have a great and safe one out there!
Merry Christmas!
To you as well!
Great video. Cool topic re: vintage. I feel if Rumble said it’s ALL original then as a recognized authority in the vintage market, they need to make it right and get him the original replacement tuners. Yes 30 days is getting out there but Rumbles response is both disappointing and surprising.
FYI
Guys it’s legal to record almost all phone calls with only one party permission (the recording party being the caller satisfies this) if across state lines.
NC is a one party consent state as is Tennessee where the caller was calling plus he was calling from outside TN so Fed law applies too which is single party.
As far as time passes you really have 2 years to be on the hook if the buyer wants to press it in a situation like this.
Think your response to this is square on to what I would want a seller to do for me. Unfortunately I have noticed younger employees especially super hard working go getters have an eye out for protecting their employer from getting scammed and lose sight of what’s best for business.
Situations like this are great training opportunities.
Love y’all even
good video jhon & bax ...........
This isn’t the first time I’ve heard this about Rumble Seat. Trogley has a video on a Mustang he bought from them whee here were multiple finish issues that were not in the photos.
They have had a few issues as have I believe everyone i the guitar business but those guys are notoriously honest and a decent lot.
I have met a lot of vintage sellers that really hate selling online now as it is almost impossible to note every check, crack, or wear mark on a piece.
That being said, we think they could have remedies this situation really easily and affordably.
Thanks for the thoughts drake and always good to hear from you!
@@CasinoGuitars As purveyors of vintage gear, I have a hard time believing they didn’t notice the lack of brass posts on the tuners. That should have been a red flag to them with they acquired it.
@@kdrake777 Would love to hear what you think about my follow up video ua-cam.com/video/p6bdpA6vE-E/v-deo.html
Sounds like rumble seat does this regularly, it’s just that they usually get away with it.
Absolutely love you guys and the channel! I haven’t had the chance or income to buy a vintage guitar yet but someday when I do you can bet your bottom dollar that I will do an extensive amount of research and homework before buying because I will be buying to collect not for profit
Thanks a ton! Glad you dig the channel. And sincere thanks for sharing your thoughts there. We agree, the research is needed when delving down this world.
I love old Gibson basses. Grabbers rippers. There all train wrecks and when you buy one it definitely has issues. I restore them build repo necks for them( as the old ones are crap) but love the sound of them !
Happy Holidays and enjoy the following trivia. Australian consumers have a lot of rights and even second hand items are subject to statutory warranties. Selling something as original when it’s not would be regarded as breach of the warranty as the goods MUST match the description given to the consumer. The length of the statutory warranty is based on the expected life span and quality and price of the goods sold. The consumer can expect to receive a refund from the seller if certain requirements are met (a seller representing a “no refund” policy is against the law and subject up to a $1.1M penalty). Theoretically whenever the consumer found out the goods weren’t as represented they could be entitled to a refund. H’mm new expensive guitars that don’t stay in tune could give sellers a lot of headaches as it’s usually up to seller to chase manufacturer not the consumer! On a side note there is precedent now that US companies who knowingly sell goods to Australians are subject to Australian consumer law (eg Valve had to pay $3M in fines I think ) which could have ramifications for instrument manufacturers moving to a direct sales model!
Got what I think is a rare Taylor 654 ce Cherry Sunburst from 2007, according to Taylor they only made 67 that year, and ONLY a handful the Cherry Sunbursts are made. Original price according to Taylor was $4048. I think it's worth at least $3000 but don't know. It is in excellent shape, with everything original as far as I know
The closest I've come to buying vintage was my 85 SG which I bought in late 90s early 00s.
I agreed that the dealer should take responsibility for the inaccurate sale. And make it right. However, I think you have to be careful buying vintage online or without seeing/ playing it yourself.
Where should folks go to find player grade vintage guitars? I’m okay with a repaired headstock and a refret if the body and pickups are still original. I’d really like to find a nice late 60s 335.
Reverb is probably the best place, then maybe eBay. You might get lucky and find what you want in a shop
The Rumble Seat people are very nice & the prices are very fair in many cases. Merry Christmas!
100% agree there! Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts.
A seller's liability often turns on what 'representations' were made prior to the sale and whether the representation at issue was 'material.' As to whether the buyer needs to immediately or within a short period of time advise the seller of the misrepresentation-- nope, that's not a thing (check your jurisdiction's statute of limitations).
Yep. Sounds like someone else went to law school ha. Very clear case law on this in other areas.
@@RogerThat902 LOL
Merry Christmas casino guitars.... I don't know what happened but santa didn't bring me that new white 335.... I was wondering if you guys could coordinate with santa to see what happened to it... Thank you
Thanks Casino. ⚓️
48 hours is generous, everyone makes mistakes, even customers, but after 30 days a Full Refund would not be fair to Dealer although Service or exchange would be depending on if at fault
I've only been seeing you both here for about a month and a half. I would have no problem buying something from you sight unseen. I am hoping very much that when my work begins travel again and I get up to NC that I can get off an afternoon and ride over to check out your shop in person. Till then, Merry Christmas and all good days!
Thanks a ton for the nice thoughts! We would love to see you once the world of travel is back on:)
Merry Xmas to you and yours and we’ll see you out there on the interwebs!
He found out on a 335 forum? Wow that sounds fun. Lol
We found that detail “odd” and for sure funny as well...:(
@@CasinoGuitars I love SG'S and Les Pauls, but could never stand the ES shapes.
I don't own any truly vintage guitars, but if I did, it would be player grade, just for this reason. I want to play it and not worry about it.
I agree, I began collecting and playing Japanese vintage ( '76-'84) electric and acoustic guitars by accident a long time ago. The guitar to price ratio seemed to good to be true to me. I must admit that I've bought guitars just because I'm too lazy to change back to standard tuning. My guitars range from my main guitar, a 1983 jv squire that looked like someone had walked on it wearing golf spikes when I bought it, to a pristine '81 Greco Super Real egf 1800 that I would put up against any Les Paul. I think the issues really arise when you attempt to make money by reselling the things. I would love to have a small vintage guitar shop, but I would never make a dime.
@@thomascampbell6374 There's definitely money to be made if you play the game right, takes a lot of time though. I've wanted to get my hands on a Greco for years, they look fantastic, as well as Edwards and Burny. Really cool story, thank you for sharing!
IMO it depends on how the shop markets it or speaks on it. If they tell you everything is 100% original and it's not the shop should do their best to fix it. The customer thought they were buying something based on the word of the shop. Now I get that the shop can't always know these things, but in that case I think it's fine to say "we believe..." la la la. It's a little liability relief, but also would mean the buyer goes in knowing what they are getting.
That being said, the shop really should try to fix it even if they think it was not all their fault. The PR hit from this story is probably worth a lot more than whatever it costs to fix.
Have you done a video on player grade or modified vintage guitars? For example, guitars that have been refinished or had original parts replaced?
Not yet but a great idea! Thanks a ton for sharing that:)
I've got a 1967 12 string Rickenbacker 360 Jetglo. I would love to sell it but I can't see a shop asking 20% to sell it for me. What are your thoughts?
Wondering what the best value for a true vintage instrument is. Any suggestions ??
best value? gibson melody makers. still cheap, killer necks.
also early 70's tele's
Vintage market is spooky, I have bought many mid-priced "daily drivers" ($300.00-$1,000.00) electrics over the years and too often parts are changed out and unintentionally affect the resale value. I don't dare risk large amounts of money on individual instruments because there are so many risks involved. Too stressful😬
Roght o on that! The stress factor certainly does rose with each 0 added! It can be very tricky but also...very fun:)
Thanks a ton for sharing!
Yeah we recently got swindled on a 1973 Strat. I unfortunately wasn’t at my shop and I only had pro audio guys there for the day. The guy told my staff the only modification was the tremolo was different and he replaced the bridge pick up but he still had the original one in the case. Once I got there and took it apart I could tell it was likely 73 partscaster some parts being original and some parts definitely not.
Ye, similar things have happened to us as well...that's always the scary part of not having the A team in everyday. Thank you for sharing and sorry for the situation.
Is a 1985 Ibanez Roadstar II with all original parts "vintage" or merely "relic"? Asking for a friend....
04:23 and there's a photo of my guitar!
New guitar scatched: worth less..old guitar scratched:worth more..got it!
I love vintage instruments and amps. I think this was a great video on the subject. I live near Nashville, and I’m familiar with Rumble Seat. I agree that they are highly reputable and this was just a simple mistake. You can go into some music stores and just get a feeling that maybe they are a little sketchy, but Rumble Seat is the polar opposite of that as are the two iconic vintage stores that are on the same street (Carter Vintage and Gruhn’s). I’m in agreement with you regarding the buyer as well, but I really think that the buyer made a mistake by buying from a highly regarded dealer. That is exactly what you want to do if you are buying an instrument/amp to keep, but if you are buying just to flip it you really are losing profit for yourself.
Personally, all of my vintage gear (thus far) has come from Carter Vintage, and in my experience they have always been upfront about any changes that have been made to the instrument or amp. I bought a 1960 Champ for the same price as a new Fender ‘57 Custom Reissue Champ, because it had a replaced speaker and transformer. It still sounds amazing and looks like the piece of history that it is, and I’ve already had multiple people offer to buy it for more than I paid for it. The same day I also bought a Silvertone 1484 which was the reason I had gone to the store in the first place. It is absolutely the most pristine example I’ve ever seen in person. I paid a premium for the condition, and in all likelihood if I wanted to sell it I wouldn’t be able to get what I paid for it. It’s still a cool amp that I have no intention of selling. The Champ was just sitting there on the ledge right as you go into the main showroom next to Mr. Carter’s computer. I told him that I had passed up a good deal on a ‘58 Champ when I lived in Memphis, because I didn’t trust the store that was selling it. He said “Here’s your chance to get a good deal on one again.”
I also own a 1957 Fender “Mandocaster” that has only had the tuner buttons replaced. For what it’s worth, the disintegrated remains of the original buttons are in a baggie in the case. It’s the single most expensive piece of gear I own, but it was one of my “Holy Grail” most wanted items and it’s worth every penny. The salesman who sold it to me had been in the vintage gear industry for 30+ years in Nashville and the Mandocaster I bought was only the second one from the first generation of Mandocasters (slab ash body, blonde finish, gold anodized pick guard, maple fretboard) he had ever seen come up for sale. He sold the other one when he was working for George Gruhn to an iconic British guitarist who bought it as a gift for a friend who was also a well known guitarist.
Great pieces first off and thank you for sharing!
And thrilled that you have been to those shops as well. They are all top notch and the staff they all have are for the most part, top notch and all straight shooter!
Thanks for sharing your experiences with them as well. I hope all works out for the buyer and he seems like a real nice guy!
Sincere thanks again for sharing your journey and best to you and yours this holiday season!
Merry Christmas Guys!! Love ya!
Back at you! Thanks a ton!
Hey - I had a 1993 Honda Civic and the darn thing broke down on me on a dark road in Staten Island across from a swamp where Sammy The Bull Gravano dumped 17 bodies. How do I know this? It was across the street from our office complex and one day a NYPD Police trailer showed up, and didn’t leave for a year - until they had exhumed 17 bodies. No BS.
I loved going into Rumble Seat with my uncle and looking around when they were up here in Ithaca. It was like going into a dark cave full of the coolest oldest gear. Wish they didn't move but it turned out to be the right move for them.
I mean the tuners? I could see if it was more the pickups, especially if they are real PAF’s. Could it really bring down the price that much?
100% original means just that. Not 95, not 98. So you see the incredible rarity of that claim, and there’s where the difference in price is.
The vintage guitar market is more or less like the fine arts market. Even Picasso once called one painting a fake Picasso, which turned out to have been painted by him.
“Caveat Emptor” is used in British contract law, Latin for “buyer beware”
I was wondering what that meant!
merry christmas! actually a 93 civic hatchback si is a highly coveted body and chassis, it’s known as the EG civic and ironically i always wanted one! vintage cars are similar, where people pay a fortune for vintage cars with original equipment - so maybe my car will be worth something 20 years from now! i’m ordering new wheels and keeping my original ones for this reason! oh man, just realized i gave my oem floor mats to someone who messed up theirs! there goes $100!
It’s almost like I knew a way to your heart Z! The 93 civic opens you up and my knowledge extends beyond fretted things:)
Much love and we’ll talk soon me hopes!
Do’s and don’t of buying a custom made guitar would be good. 🙏
Agreed, good share and I am going to look into that asap:) Stay tuned and thank you for the idea:)
@@CasinoGuitars Thanks.
Merry Xmas to you.
I once sold 80s Gibson LP Custom. I listed it as refinished (I wasn't sure about this, it it was pristine, so no way it was original finish), and replaced tuners. I sold it. Days later I got a message telling me they had received it, but they were sure it was a refin and they wanted the money back. I showed the listing and it ended there. Sometimes you just need to read.
Thats a pretty funny one and a good share...sometimes reading is hard though...:)
My opinion is that if someone is selling a 100% original, it is on the seller. Otherwise, don't claim it as 100% original. But places don't want to do that, because it sells for less. This is especially true for actual shops/businesses. It is on the seller to verify if it is 100% original or not. If they dont know, or are not sure, then dont sell it as such.
Also 30-days, thats not a long time to look at something and return it.
It was actually 2 months I realized since I got it - but it doesn't do to criticize the icons of the vintage world... I've been banned from The Gear Page
8
With an expensive vintage Gibson I would pay Trogly $30 to check it out first and confirm that it was exactly as advertised...Bummer situation for all concerned, hope it gets resolved amicably and fairly
Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays guys, really appreciate what you do!
P.S...RIP Leslie West
Rumble Seat made a mistake, a genuine mistake I think. They should fix it. It's ultimately only a few dollars but the PR is worth much more
I had a business selling classic and vintage cars. This is all bringing back memories. At the end of the day the honus is on the buyer. If I took the word of the seller as gospel, I would have lost more money than I ever made. Some of the best body guys will get these things and by sight you can't tell that the entire rear panel is bondo. I put it upon myself to make the arraingements needed to touch the car, or create a 'grace period' with the seller to have a right of refusal, and likewise with my customers.
Not a bad point there. It is really tough when buying from long distance but again in the end, it for sure does come down on the buyer. Sincere best to you and yours this season and thanks a ton for sharing your thoughts!
Oh and by the way I wish you all a very happy and Merry Christmas and a happy New Year! Peace and love!
Back at ya mate!!!
The store should make it right.
So you are telling me that the guys at Rumble Seat could not tell the turners were not original but someone looking at a picture on Reverb could?
Driving my 89 Civic with pride
Odd that now people will regard eras of really spotty production from Gibson, Fender or Martin as “vintage” just because they are old. A real stray from what “vintage” used to mean.
This is what happens when "vintage" equals cash and not instrument... if your buying old things in fragile market where things are valued by what someone will pay not what it's worth lol I view this as something more comparable to the market of antiques and collectibles then instruments.... and sadly in the market of antiques and collectibles there is no 100% guarantee period... personally the best way to know if a good instrument is good is if it's good and beat but still plays amazing it will be like this cuz it's a great instrument lol guitars arnt like cars where someone buys it and hides it away in grandma's barn so its mint... an old guitar from my experience will almost tell a story cuz you can litterly see what notes been banged for years what chords are worn ect ect...
I was horrified recently when I watched a video by a well known youtuber and great guitar player where he went to check out vintage guitars in Nashville and he went to rumble seat and played some guitars? many of them were in dire need of a refret, to the point where the guitar was unplayable?........but they were asking top dollar prices for a guitar that needed a refret, and by doing that youn"de-value" the guitar?? if you are selling vintage guitars at top prices, they should have absolutely no issues whatsoever, and if they need a refret they should be reflected in the price, or have been refretted prior to sale? there are certain things that guitar shops should do, and certain things the buyer should do. I have gone into shops with the intention of spending money but walked out because an expensive guitar was way out of tune and obviously had not had a setup before being offered for sale let alone cost a ton and be unplayable??
Just as Johnathon was saying, "You gotta work on 'em", that was exactly what was going through my head when it comes to old cars.
Good point:)!
The customer is never wrong.
No matter what, record the unboxing
This whole thing is tricky. Seems like a reputed vintage shop in Nashville (w their own Reverb page) would be able to sell it for more than just some guy, so it seems unlikely he bought it just to flip.
That being said, if they told him it's 100% original and it's not, when IS the cutoff for a refund? 30 days in-hand doesn't seem unreasonable, even if he did have a little outside help sleuthing the issue.
IMO, if you're business is "vintage guitar shop," and you're selling something as 100% original, the onus is on you to confirm that it is what you say it is. Not the buyer. Otherwise, it's "haha gotcha, you just didn't catch it quick enough!"
Do: generally avoid it
Don’t: be poor
No kidding. These days the only way you get into vintage guitars is if you have more money than you know what to do with it.
@@MinivanMegafun100 vintage won’t make us play any better anyway, so who cares.
Several States like Georgia allow you to record as long as one of the parties like yourself knows that it's being recorded. Shady or whatever the thought, it's still legal in some places and used A LOT if you have an attorney involved.
I enjoyed the video as always with you guys. It would seem to me that if the buyer is right, you would have to revalue the guitar and refund the difference based on the new valuation. But no way should the dealer lose money if they acted in good faith. The lesson is buy new from Casino Guitars. Or used as I would 100% trust Casino.
Vintage is a spooky pool to dip your toes into, especially if it’s a huge investment for you personally. I just came into a modest inheritance and just before receiving it an L plate 1965 Olympic White Strat appeared at my local G.C. They were asking $25K. I was thinking it was more an $18K example, and thought about making an offer, but man, considering the price, all the “what if’s” started haunting me. It’s G.C. so they say they checked the date codes and neck stamps, but how do I know? Tuners were replaced along with one vol pot, but still, how do you know? I did as much research as I could, which only led to more questions. It looked like a great Fender C.S. Relic job, so then I was wondering why am I considering paying a premium for what is most likely a player grade vintage? I dunno... I ultimately got lucky because they sold it a few days before my inheritance check came. Phew! I was never so glad I missed out on an axe before, lol. I have two true vintage guitars. My ‘65 Epiphone Casino was my first electric guitar. 8th grade grad gift in 1982. $350.00 w/ a Kustom amp. Recently bought a ‘59 Silvertone dolphin nose U1. It’s clearly all original because who is going counterfeit those cheap-ass tuners on a sub $1K guitar?